115: Love the Gap; How Great Leaders Turn Pressure Into Possibility w/ Shea Smith

Many high performers assume burnout happens because they’re pushing too hard.

But what if the real problem is that you're chasing goals you don’t actually want?

In this episode of the No Limit Leadership Podcast, Sean sits down with Shea Smith, Executive Coach at Novus Global and former television story producer, to explore why so many leaders get stuck in survival mode—and how clarity of vision can completely change the way we work and lead.

Drawing from years in high-pressure entertainment environments and executive coaching, Shea introduces the Vision–Gap–Reality framework, a powerful tool for reconnecting with what actually matters and creating meaningful momentum in life and leadership.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, reactive, or unsure about the direction you're heading, this conversation will challenge how you think about burnout, possibility, and what you're truly capable of. 

Timestamps

00:00 — Why high performers burn out chasing the wrong goals

01:12 — Shea’s background: from TV story producer to executive coach

03:19 — Leadership inside high-pressure industries like entertainment

05:42 — The early warning signs of burnout leaders often ignore

08:19 — Why overwhelmed leaders need to slow down to gain clarity

10:58 — The Vision–Gap–Reality framework explained

12:48 — Why vague goals quietly create long-term burnout

15:53 — How leaders typically react when they see the gap

17:51 — Fear vs love: the two mindsets that drive leadership decisions

20:32 — Applying Vision–Gap–Reality inside teams and organizations

22:57 — Why slowing down actually helps leaders move faster

24:12 — How to know if your vision is big enough

26:19 — The fear of failure that drives many high performers

29:41 — Why vision creates focus in a distracted world

31:18 — How vision helps leaders say no and avoid overcommitment

32:56 — The athlete mindset: showing up consistently without burnout

35:52 — The moment Shea realized she had been living reactively

37:48 — What’s possible when leaders reconnect with vision

39:27 — Why chasing greatness is a responsibility, not just ambition

Guest

Shea Smith
Executive Coach | Novus Global

Connect with Shea

Novus Global
 https://novus.global/sheasmith/

LinkedIn
 https://www.linkedin.com/in/shea-smith-743b20103/

Instagram
 https://www.instagram.com/thesheasmith

No Limit Leadership is the go-to podcast for growth-minded executives, middle managers, and team leaders who want more than surface-level leadership advice. Hosted by executive coach and former Special Forces commander Sean Patton, this show dives deep into modern leadership, self-leadership, and the real-world strategies that build high-performing teams. Whether you're focused on leadership development, building a coaching culture, improving leadership communication, or strengthening team accountability, each episode equips you with actionable insights to unlock leadership potential across your organization. From designing onboarding systems that retain talent to asking better questions that drive clarity and impact, No Limit Leadership helps you lead yourself first so you can lead others better. If you're ready to create a culture of ownership, resilience, and results, this leadership podcast is for you.

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:00)
Today on the No Limit Leadership podcast, we explore why so many high performers burn out chasing goals they don't actually want. My guest, Shay Smith, an executive coach with Novus Global and former story producer in the entertainment industry, breaks down a powerful framework called Vision Gap Reality. If you've ever felt stuck in survival mode, overwhelmed by demands, or unsure how to reconnect with what you actually want, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, possibility, and what you're truly capable of.

Sean Patton (00:41)
Welcome to the No Limit Leadership podcast. I am your host, Sean Patton. My guest today is Shay Smith. Shay is a coach with Novus Global and brings a unique leadership lens shaped by years working in the entertainment industry as a story producer. One of the most volatile and high pressure environments you can be in. Through her work, Shay helps leaders and professionals navigate uncertainty, make bold decisions without having all the answers, and reconnect with vision when life feels maxed out or reactive. Her work sits at the intersection of responsibility, possibility, and personal leadership. And

I'm excited to explore how we lead when the path forward isn't clear. Shay, welcome to the show.

Shea Smith (01:12)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. This is going to be a good conversation.

Sean Patton (01:16)
So I know next to nothing about the entertainment industry, but I'm intrigued by it. So what is a story producer?

Shea Smith (01:23)
Story producers so I worked in what is called a story department quite literally a whole department dedicated to people's stories and whose stories we were telling on any given show some of the shows I worked on were competition cooking shows some were more documentary docu-series style and we had a whole department dedicated to Crafting and really mining people's stories so that what shows up on screen is clear

And it tells the arc that they wanted to tell about themselves. So it was a really fun position to be in because I got to really work with real people. And it was so interesting how often we got to really highlight things that people had either forgotten or just glossed over or didn't think was very important. And then when you kind of shrink it down into something that can show up in an hour series or less, it actually seems a lot more impactful. So it's really fun.

Sean Patton (02:11)
It's like such a powerful skill. know one of the things I struggle with in communication, whether it's through this podcast format or speaking or, or working with a client is taking that messiness and sort of distilling it down to like, what's the main point, right? Like what's the through line? Like, how does this make sense? You know, quickly, I'm curious, did you find that skillset useful as you shift, as you shifted to more of a coaching lens and trying to like,

See, you know, kind of get through the chaos of the big story to see what's really going on.

Shea Smith (02:42)
Oh, absolutely. I still use so many of the tools I had then now in the work that we do with clients and teams because we all have stories going on. Those stories we tell others about ourselves, you know how we want to look maybe stories we tell ourselves and so many times people are working with those stories without realizing that they're actually driving and putting them on a trajectory whether they like it or not. And so with clients now I mind for stories all the time. I'm constantly listening to people whether they saying about themselves. What are they saying about the possibilities?

and what they're capable of. It's so critical to the work that we do to pay attention to the stories that people tell about themselves.

Sean Patton (03:19)
When you were working in those environments that are like high pressure and fast, fast pace, what was leadership like in those spaces?

Shea Smith (03:29)
Entertainment is unique in a lot of ways and I wonder if this isn't in other high pressure, high performance industries. The leaders in entertainment have a specific way, all of their performance is visible for the most part, right? You have your team, of course there's behind the scenes things and your success is measured by the public. Your success is measured by networks. Your success is measured in a way that can often create the experience of being on all the time because you're under fire.

You are pressing against deadlines that seem impossible, yet you're doing it. And then you do it again and again and again. Leaders are leading more often than not more things than they can count, right? It's not just one show at a time and then you do the next, right? There's a lot of overlap. And I make up that that happens in other industries too, but specifically for entertainment, I think the visibility piece is really, really deeply connected to it and why a lot of high-performer leaders in that space burn out.

because they continue to push and press and they don't really have a space more often than not to be able to stop and think about what stories they're running, right? And what challenges they're facing, how to get better, a space that's safe enough to be honest about maybe they don't know how to do something yet, maybe they have an impossible dream that they don't want to say out loud because then they're on the hook for it or someone's gonna ask for proof of concept all of a sudden. So it's very unique in that way.

Sean Patton (04:50)
Yeah, I think you're right. think it could be almost endemic of that maybe high-paced environment or high pressure. I'm thinking things like medical or legal, or maybe a founder who has their hands in a lot of places. When you see those leaders, and I know you work across industry, but with your background in entertainment and work with people in entertainment.

What, how can we help those leaders or what should they look for as terms of like leading indicators that maybe it's time for them to get a coach that they are running themselves, you too ragged because too often we hear about people just, you know, burn burning out like, you know, health crisis, mental health crisis. You just have to like, you know, we just work until we have to like, just shut it all off and go away somewhere else for a couple of years or something. Instead of looking for those, those early leading indicators that action needs to be taken.

What are some of those leading indicators?

Shea Smith (05:42)
think noticing burnout is part of it and not just noticing but acknowledging if you are overstretched and overstimulated and overwhelmed and not to say that that means you have to give up on what you're going for. I think it's important to not just accept that that is what it is. You get a choice in how you relate to it and a choice in what you want to create.

And so the work that we do with MetaPerformance, oftentimes we see people burning out because their vision is not too big, it is too small. And so we define vision as something, a picture of the future that produces passion. And in other words, what is gonna be the thing that is worth it, that's worth the price of transformation and growth?

So often we see leaders, especially in these high performing high path, high impact, high fast paced environments pushing towards something that they don't actually want, right? Or it's not that next level. And so when push comes to shove, it's easy to just pull, move the goalpost, right? Move the goal line, scale back, and then they're exhausted because they're working so hard for something they don't even actually want.

Sean Patton (06:47)
Yeah, when you find someone who's, I could picture, you know, feeling sort of burnt out and not sure what it is. And then you come and talk to them about, well, your vision isn't big enough. It could be a little bit like, all right, here's the door, you know? So how do you approach that conversation?

Shea Smith (06:57)
Yeah, they're like great.

Exactly.

Yeah. So one of our taglines, right, is that we help people get twice as much done in half the time with increased satisfaction. And we use that last part too, because

we can get more done in less time and just like completely burn out right and that's not the whole point of it Right. The whole point is to have that increased satisfaction And so we really come around leaders to give them the tools to be able to do that to use the stories that they are telling themselves to get out of their own way and Equip them so that they can get more done in less time because again this the big thrilling vision are things that aren't just naturally going to happen It's going to take some efforts

Sean Patton (07:13)
You

Shea Smith (07:37)
and it's going to take some focus on that. And that's where we get to come in and really support so that you're not just going out there and winging it or again, contributing to that burnout.

Sean Patton (07:46)
Yeah. What do you say to leaders when you work with them and they are, they're struggling to resist the future or thinking about the future because they're sort of still, they're stuck in this reactive survival mode. There's too much stuff that has to get done right now. Like how do we reframe their thinking around what they see as overwhelm or, if they're like,

You know, now's not the time. see the, need to get these things done. And of course that list seems to never get complete. So how do we pull people up a bit?

Shea Smith (08:19)
Yeah, I think it's having honest conversations with them and having that space to say hey look, let's slow it down Right. It's not again just pushing through and just here's here's my reframe Here's my three top ten the three top three things to do and then you're gonna be fine, right? It's really slowing down and seeing the person be like, hey, what's actually going on?

What is overwhelming about what you're looking at? Maybe it is timeline, right? Maybe that there's a bunch of expectations put on you that you haven't agreed to fulfilling. Maybe you've been following told for things, no matter what it is, let's take a look at it. What's behind it? Because again, it's the things that are running behind the scenes that are often contributing to what experience we're creating for ourselves. So when we look at what we want to have happen, right? That vision that I referenced a minute ago.

We also look at really what's your current reality. So if their current reality is they're overwhelmed, great. Let's take a look at that. Let's get you unstuck, And inevitably, one of the tools we use is called vision gap reality, right? Because we look at where your reality is right now, it's going to create a gap. If you aren't where you want to be today, let's look at that space in between, right? And we get to choose how we relate to that.

We get to choose if we want to stay in that feeling of, I'm just overwhelmed and it is what it is, right? Is that what you want to be committed to? Most people don't want to stay stuck there and we get to work through that.

Sean Patton (09:36)
Right. And what I'm hearing there is almost a default to at the effect of like all the things that are at this gap is happening to me. And so now I'm at the effect of all these things that are happening and almost this turns into this almost victim mentality. When I hear you turn around is how do we turn, turn that event at the point of view, right? That worldview to say, no, you're actually

You're making decisions, you're creating this gap or you're in the gap. Like you get to choose how, how you approach this and almost put people back in the driver's seat.

Shea Smith (10:10)
Yeah, we get to take that ownership, right? And so the idea that it all is just happening at you could be true, right? And what else could be true? That's a question I ask on repeat with people is like, what else could be true, right? And so often it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, right? You have all the resources within you.

It's slowing down, it's taking a look at it, and it's being in a space where someone's gonna ask you questions that may not be in line with the story that you're telling yourself. So like the example you were sharing is that, okay, well if I have all these deadlines and all these things, I'm just overwhelmed, this is the only option, Having someone come from the outside and say, maybe.

Right? Let's take a look at what else could be possible. Even if you were able to take more 1 % more ownership, what could that look like? How could your trajectory change if you were empowered in your actions and what you wanted to create?

Sean Patton (10:58)
Let's map this out. You mentioned vision and gap reality from where we are now, this vision we're trying to create down the road. what I'm hearing you say is that it's first important that we need to craft vision because without that clear vision, it does seem muddy, right? You're just kind of reacting and doing stuff. And so can you kind of explain to me when we set up vision?

and then we identify reality, we identify that gap. Like what does that process kind of look like?

Shea Smith (11:27)
I mean, it can be as simple as somebody listening right now taking out a piece of paper, right? Or your notes app on your phone and writing down what you want to have happen this year, right? What do you want the end result to be? We talk a lot about like, what would you want to be celebrating come New Year's Eve this year, right? Just pick a timeframe. Could be six months, could be a whole year, could be five years. That's less important than getting really clear on what you're actually going to happen. So if you're writing something down right now, just notice like, it clear? Do you want more money?

Right? How will you know if you have more money? Right? Is it just a dollar more? Right? It's a hundred thousand dollars more. Right? So getting really clear and I know we laugh about that because it seems so obvious and yet so many of us are running around with visions or ideas of the future that are more just a hope and a wish. Right? And it doesn't, we don't feel connected to it or it doesn't feel like something we actually want to, ⁓ we actually want. Maybe it's something that you feel like you should go after.

Getting clear on that is so important because that becomes your North Star. So when we look at that, it can be as easy as like, do want to have happen? It can be, I do this with my kids as well, right? What do I want in my parenting this week? What's my vision for this week? What am I committed to this week, right?

It doesn't have to be your whole life. And I would invite you to include your whole life at some point, right? This is your life we're talking about. We want it to be thrilling. We want it to be something where you're not burning out. We want you to have a long life and a happy and excited, right? And what do you want to have happen? So we got to start there.

Sean Patton (12:48)
You know, I find my own experience is without doing that exercise and putting things down on paper that I have this idealistic view of the future that I'm trying to create. And it's always in the future. And so I'm never getting there because it's a constantly moving goalpost. And I know for me that can create sort of like almost like low level

Shea Smith (13:05)
Mm-hmm.

Sean Patton (13:12)
burnout or just fatigue. We're just like, I'm just always fighting for this thing, but not realizing that as I do that, as I accomplish things, I just keep moving this vision bigger and bigger. So it's like, I never have the thing that I'm trying to get to. And that could be exhausting.

Shea Smith (13:22)
Yes.

Absolutely, and I think the vagueness is where we see that right and it's not necessarily that you can't expand further than the goals and the outcomes that you set for yourself and It is amazing what happens when we hit those outcomes and then you go to set your next ones How much bigger those next ones are and again not just big for the sake of being big, right? We look at what feels impossible that you actually want to have happen

And from there, you know, setting that big vision, find people can either vision really easily, maybe that's their default, and sometimes that's more difficult. The second part of this tool is to look at your current reality. So if you wrote down that vision, if you're listening and you're working alongside us here, go down further underneath that vision right where you are right now.

Now this part is somewhere that we often can get a little sideways from what is actual reality. So I would invite you to get really crystal clear on what your reality is. Oftentimes we see people inflate this area and be like, I'm kind of almost kind of going right. And then that can create exhaustion if you don't get really clear on where you're starting. Cause then if you're trying to get to that big vision and you're just kind of muddy from the get go again, is it's going to start slowing you down.

Sean Patton (14:34)
Yeah. So I'm hearing clarity on vision and current reality. Super important. So like, no, no, what you're playing with, no, no, it's important. No, what you're focusing on. And then, you know, it's funny, even as I just related back to, as I gave my example about the vision, keeping the move and staying vague and always being aspirational. came back to you said earlier about how I was relating to that gap. Like I was relating to that gap as it's tiring, it's exhausting, it's never gonna, it's never gonna happen. and

Shea Smith (14:53)
Yeah.

Sean Patton (15:00)
So yeah, I just kind of caught myself there of how I was relating to not having vision. I was seen as a negative thing.

Shea Smith (15:09)
Yeah, exactly. Because then we get to judge ourselves, right?

Our brains more than anything want to be right. And so it starts to look for evidence. So if you have a vague vision and you're not meeting whatever your vision is, you know, I want more of insert whatever, then you get to be right that you're not going to get there. If that's the story you're telling yourself, right? Our brain looks for evidence. And so it's like, it's another reason why we want to get specific about where we went ahead. Right. And you're allowed to change your mind. This isn't about, you just have to craft this and then just believe it. And it will be so we start with vision so that we, go to a strategy piece and a mindset piece.

we have a direction, you're not just gonna zigzag all over the place. And that's part of how we get more done in less time, is having a straight route to where we wanna go. And knowing is the starting point of that. Knowing what direction you went ahead.

Sean Patton (15:53)
Yeah. How have you found that most people, if we can even use that term, clients when you first start working them, how do people sort of typically relate to this gap when they see it? when they start to get clarity on

Shea Smith (16:06)
I think there's a mix. There's often just that sometimes that excitement because maybe it's the first time they've really tapped into it. I get a lot of tears. I get a lot of people crying in their cooking sessions because they're like, well, what if, what if, what if I am capable? Right. How exciting and thrilling and potentially terrifying is that? Right. And oftentimes when we get, they get to that vision that they've created, they see their current reality. They see where they are now and that gap in between where they are now, where they want to go and fear sets in.

no, what have I done? Now I've put it on paper, right? Maybe that's somebody is experiencing that right now that's listening. It doesn't have to be the commitment. If you want to change your mind about what that vision is and what if you held that line? What if you worked towards that outcome and you actually got it? And so with that gap, we get to look at how we want to relate to it. Like you said earlier, do you want to operate from that fear, that disempowered side of it where

The fear, anxiety, the stress, the now I have to, I'm never going to, you we hear a lot of absolute language, right? It's never, always a lot of vague language in there. And we also, if we're gonna take ownership, get to choose if we want to be empowered and relate to it with love, right? Getting curious about what we're capable of and what is possible, right? We call it loving the gap.

because we get to have that ongoing experience because your vision, if it is thrilling and feels impossible, is likely not going to happen tomorrow or the next day, right? If you're pushing for that six month outcome, that year end outcome, it's gonna take a bit, right? And if it is like the training that we do, if it is something that feels impossible that you're gonna have to show up in a different way, it's gonna take some growth, which comes from growing pains, right? And so we get to wrestle with that tension or to love that excitement of

staying empowered towards that gap.

Sean Patton (17:51)
love that word empowered when it comes to the gap. And you also brought up two other words. You brought up fear and love, which I think are sort of the critical drivers of all human behavior. And I think it's empowering to be able to know we can choose to be, we can still do the thing. Like we can still do the thing and do the action. It's like, do you want to do it?

from a place that you feel the energy to come from a place of fear and lack or do you need to or can you maybe approach it from one that swells up from loving being in the gap and great. The word that keeps coming for me is gratitude. For me, that sort of like grounds me into loving the gap is, isn't it cool that I get to do this? I'm like striving towards something that's important. Like isn't that.

Shea Smith (18:37)
Right. And I think there's also probably a layer of this for a leader that's listening and maybe they're in just such an intense environment, whether they like their job or not, might not be relevant to them at the moment. Right. They might thought, it doesn't matter. But my boss needs this and this. And I don't love that I have all these deadlines. Right. And if you slow it down for a minute, what could be possible there? Right. If you got curious, what resource could you pull on to operate from that that love?

I think there's oftentimes a stuckness feeling to some of the jobs, with leaders, especially I experienced it in entertainment. I make up it in other industries as well, where it's just like, this is high pressure and that's it. And this type of work, this meta performance work, we get to look at not just like, how are you gonna handle it? How are you just gonna show up and do your job? We don't even ask like, how are you gonna be the best? We go further beyond high performance to look at what are you capable of?

And so even in this one tool where we're talking about loving a gap, loving the space in between where you are right now where you want to be, getting so clear that you are not yet where you want to be.

Right? And then choosing to respond with love and care for yourself and curiosity and excitement. Right? That can be challenging, which is why we really encourage people to have a coach to whether that's coaching you or your team. We like in the coaching space to a gym. And so as a coach, we get to spot you with this. We don't recommend that you go alone. Even in our coaching firm, we don't go alone. We all have coaches. We go together on activities and different things. We invite each other into this space.

Because you matter right because we don't want you hanging on a limb by yourself And you deserve to have support in my opinion as you were growing in this area because we're asking you know people to step outside of what is feels comfortable and We're not gonna leave you hanging right where you get outside of what feels comfortable so that you can Fulfill what you are really capable of and more often than not that's more than you're doing right now

Sean Patton (20:32)
So I love how you brought that just from individual leaders we're talking before to organizationally. And I wonder what this looks like applied, vision, reality, and then the gap and creating strategy and choices off that. How does that look? What can that look like maybe inside of an organization as a team?

Shea Smith (20:50)
Yeah, I think there's so much power in getting shared language when you are chasing after a big vision. And if you are working in an organization, most likely you don't want to stay exactly where you are now. Most likely you want to grow in some way, you want to expand in some way, you want to enhance team culture. Maybe you want to live out the values that are written on the wall in the lobby, right?

And maybe that's the vision that you have and you have not yet fulfilled it in a way that feels meaningful or impactful. Whatever the vision of your company is, you may or may not have your team enrolled fully in it or aligned to it. Maybe there's changes happening. Entertainment is certainly facing a huge shift in how it operates. The rules of the game are changing and that is happening in other industries I make up as well.

And so coming in and either doing a training and getting coaching full on support, helping people align to their vision, getting really clear on where they are right now, which is again, maybe there's not yet time. You haven't slowed down to look at where your company is, or maybe there's avoidance there. Maybe there's just a lot of people that work at your organization, right? No problem. We get to come in and simplify that process to get really clear on where you are so that you can create a strategy that will actually work for your company.

We see teams again asking them what they are capable of. It set these big thrilling outcomes. They feel impossible annual, you know, revenue that is, you you know, more than doubling what they've done before. And we are seeing not only are they hitting some of those goals, they can get further in the next quarter because they are growing and pushing and learning tools that are helping them get more done and less time with increased satisfaction. So they are reaching these and they're.

able to keep their teams and their cultures aligned to the values that fit their company so they're not losing people in the process.

Sean Patton (22:30)
Hmm. Yeah. So I'm hearing that, you know, enrolling people in making it a team practice and then also understanding or having each team member, maybe explore what their individual vision is for their role inside the team. then finding some sort of alignment there to, really engage is important. And I'm also hearing that.

The key here seems to be like slowing down, like taking time to slow down.

Shea Smith (22:57)
I think it's getting clear, right? I think that's what slowing down allows us to do. And a leader listening to this may be thinking, great, but I don't have time to slow down. And what if this shift is what propels you and your organization forward faster than you could have ever imagined, right?

And what if you weren't just getting to the next level, but your entire team was, what if you got roadblocks out of your way and your entire team was doing the same? That's the kind of shift that we see with organizations implementing this tool and other tools that we have. And the best part is, is that it's not.

just a magic one flash in the pan situation. We see this across organizations throughout all of our clients, across multiple industries, individuals and teams. And one of my favorite parts is working with my clients with these tools is that they can also then go take them on their own and go implement them in their personal lives. So we see families changed, marriages changed, generations changed, right? There's so much more that gets to come from this just by simply.

being willing to get curious about what you are capable of.

Sean Patton (23:59)
You mentioned earlier with this about tackling a vision that seemed impossible. we have, when we sort of start to put vision to the test of it, we have some different things we're looking for. Can you maybe go through like, so how do we know we have vision?

Shea Smith (24:12)
Yeah, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I'll share a couple, but I'm curious what you do too. Because I think, you know, the first thing I ask is like, how doable does this sound? Right? How do this, how doable is this in your life?

Sean Patton (24:16)
Okay.

Shea Smith (24:23)
And even with all the pushing people like, I could probably do that, right? Like an eight or nine out of 10, no problem, right? And no problem. We get to come in and really push and spot as they go to that next level because our brains are brilliant. We are designed so incredibly well that our brains are trying to keep us safe. And so even those stretch goals that we set for ourselves without somebody from the outside coming in, in my opinion, is that we're going to stay safe because we bully.

We've got a story that that's that may be impossible and maybe for someone the story could be I shouldn't want more than this or There's just no way I'm gonna be able to do that So I'm just gonna stick to something that I know I can really a game I can play and a game I can already win right our brains are are trying to keep us safe. And so we help people unlock what's behind that

So they not only can push to find out what they're actually excited about, but then what else in their life, right? And so that's the first thing I look up is I ask them, how doable do you think it is? And then I honestly ask like, Hey, could you do this on your own? Great. If they, if that's possible, no problem. And what, what would you want to have accomplished on that next level? If you had support, what could that look like? So I'm curious what you look for.

Sean Patton (25:34)
Yeah. I think that I look exactly for, well, here's what I first would I see. I see either them planes, people, and I say them, like I don't do the exact same thing. do the exact same thing. Initially, initially playing safe, right? Being like comfortable. And I think a lot of that also comes from everything you just mentioned, like the fear, not wanting to be wrong. I mean, I think even how we were conditioned in school, right? It's like, oh, you got to, you know,

you miss two out of a hundred, you're always searching for perfection. What matters is the score on the test, not the effort. So it's this obsession with outcome over process, I think, that makes especially high achievers that are used to accomplishing the thing we set out to accomplish, and that we limit ourselves. And I limit myself.

Shea Smith (26:04)
Good? Yes.

Sean Patton (26:19)
You know, my number one driver that I've had to fight through my own work the last few years has been the fear of failure, or probably more specifically, the fear of being seen as a failure.

Shea Smith (26:30)
Mmm.

Sean Patton (26:31)
And that is something that with my first business as it was any outside observer would have been like, the numbers don't work. Like this thing's not going to work. You need to pull. And I just kept going. And it was really about, you know, hindsight, 2020 now doing self-work 10 years later. ⁓ I can see that it was, it was the drive, it was my ego driving. And like, I literally would rather, you know, have physically died than.

Shea Smith (26:47)
Sure.

Sean Patton (26:56)
being my ego being seen as a failure to other people. and that drove me to the hospital. mean, appendix almost burst stress hives. mean, I'm sure that, you know, the entrepreneurial worlds, you know, the suicide rate is super high. It's stress level super high. I'm sure in the inter team industry, same thing. that high pace thing, just keep going, keep going, and you do connect from yourself. And so that fear of failure is, is what I see first. So like,

Shea Smith (27:01)
Mm-hmm.

Sean Patton (27:20)
Little deeper, but like my own experience with that is like something I'm hyper aware of, in this protection mechanism. And then when someone pushes me, my like rubber band reaction is to just like, well, then a hundred times screw it. Like if we're still numbers on the board, right? Like let's just throw it on there. And, and as I look back and do my work, no, a little bit. realized it's both avoidant strategies to actually put myself on the hook for vision. Right.

Shea Smith (27:21)
Now.

Yeah.

Yes,

that is so true.

Like you said, can say we see this all the time, but we me also do this all the time, right? Well, fine. I'll just go fantasy lane because then I don't have to fail and I don't have to be wrong because I know that I can't do that in six months. If I'm going to go try to run a marathon in a month, right? Having not been able to run around the block right now, right? That's not something that I feel on hook for, or that's not something I feel bad about not accomplishing. It's also not something that I have as a vision because that's not thrilling to me to put in the time and effort right now to go do that. Right. And so again,

coming back to like, what do you actually want? And what is a failure, right? What is failure in this scenario? Again, that comes back to the disempowered lens that we get to play with, right? You know, we often, you know, people say what...

just reframe it, just flip it, right? And with the work that we do, we really get to get into it. Like you said, it gets deep and it gets really impactful because we are, like I said, we're working with real people and that's the best part of our job is that we get to really help real people in teams. And I think what you just shared is something that probably resonates with a lot of people listening because we don't want to fail. And what if it wasn't failure? If you miss that goal, what if you became the person who could do that thing and you accomplished it the next day after that six months, right?

six months in one day, right? Is that a failure? Most people, I make up, most people would say, no, that's so amazing if you did that. yet we look at it for ourselves of, I didn't check it off, right? As high performers, right? Say, well, but I didn't do it exactly the second I said it, right? Or I didn't do the best or the most. And so getting really clear on what's, again, going back to vision, we say this ad nauseum sometimes, right? What is the vision? What is the vision? What is the vision? Because it matters that much.

because it plays into how we talk to ourselves, how we get to be empowered or disempowered, how we get to relate to what's happening in our life and our world, right? And I think that when we start to get really clear and start looking at that, that's what makes the biggest difference for people. I mean, have you seen that in your own life as you've done that work?

Sean Patton (29:41)
⁓ yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, the word that came up for me, as you were just explaining that is, is focus, you know, like that's what I mean is in a world that is decreasing, increasingly, adapt and at, stealing attention and trying to pull us away and try to get us to think about a million different things. And whether that's news or marketing or, you know,

Shea Smith (29:48)
Mm-hmm.

Sean Patton (30:05)
I should be doing these things with my family or, you know, this whole like shooting on myself, which is one of my favorite things to do is just should my shit on myself. I should be here. and so as like, what vision provides is when I often find myself scattered or feeling overwhelmed to your point, vision allows me to refocus and almost make it add clarity around.

what actually matters.

Shea Smith (30:29)
Yeah, and I think for people who maybe are multi passionate or maybe they have a side hustle in their corporate job or whatever variation right if your vision is in just one area, right? I invite you to expand like your your viewpoint, right?

As you were saying these different things where, know, it doesn't matter right now. Maybe, maybe your vision has multiple, you know, points running. Maybe you have a vision for different things in your life and that's no problem. You get to use it. Like you said, as the focal point that North Star and to test, Hey, I'm making this decision or I feel really overwhelmed about this, you know, particular task or event or what have you opportunity even. But if it doesn't align with the vision, I make up that decision on whether you engage in those other things becomes a little bit simpler.

If it's not matched towards the direction you want to go, it almost makes the no's easier sometimes. If you know what you're saying yes to or want to have be your guess.

Sean Patton (31:18)
And that, and don't you, what I see that with, with myself and others that when we lose sight of that, or if people haven't, or either for that moment or ever had like that clear vision, how much easier it is to get pulled and, say yes to things and overcommit and, and do that. And I, I'm a, I'm a going through a phase of my life where because vision has shifted, I'm having to sort of recalibrate past commitments I've made.

So like, are these now relying with my new vision as I get to shift that over time?

Shea Smith (31:48)
Yeah, I personally have a tendency to go all or nothing. And so when I, my vision has shifted as well where it, it creates some tension because it's like, I would just want to drop all this other stuff. And my vision to finish well supersedes that. And so I'm showing up differently and I'm, I'm have a gap that I get to choose to love.

And how do I do things that are no longer aligned, but I'm finishing those commitments well, right into this next season. And I experienced that working in entertainment as well, where we'd have show after show after show, lot of turnover and just what the projects are and getting enrolled. A lot of muscle building in this world of how do we bring a team together? How do we get the vision of what the actual product's going to be? How do we, you know, herd cats, you know, all the different things that people experience in their workplace today, I'm sure is really how do we get to the finish

line and so without burning out for me looks like playing with that middle ground of how do I show up just day after day that the athlete mindset of showing up consistently doing the work and with a clear vision I get to experience different results with choosing to be empowered about my gap and loving the gap I get to experience results that I never thought were possible before.

Sean Patton (32:56)
To go back, something came up for me there with the entertainment industry again. Have you found that in...

Maybe this is not true or maybe it is true, but on different teams and in different environments, does it have a tendency to get to a point where like people get very siloed? you know, these are the creatives who came up with you. can, you guys came up with a storyline. Everyone else is just kind of like, do your role, you know, uh, and kind of get pushed out of the creative process to the point where people sort of just like head down, do their jobs. Or do you find where it becomes more.

more of a back and forth and everyone's participating in a creative process.

Shea Smith (33:32)
that depends on the team. And I would say that we have an opportunity to get creative wherever we are. And so I get creative in my parenting, right? I get creative and how I balance parenting and work, right? I get to get creative. And that's part of for me, the part of being empowered and loving my gap is really like, okay, I have a part to play in this. I have parameters much like many people listening, right? You don't just get the run of show on every project you work with in your life forever, right?

What and for me that would be boring right to be the only person working on anything and I make up for even people listening now, you know, there's this opportunity to look at again the ownership piece of what is my vision for what I have in front of me. What's on my plate? What have I agreed to?

And what do I want to create? What value do I want to create in this experience? And more often than not on a team in entertainment, I'm one piece of the puzzle. And that's by design because I'm not going to do the tech job and run the camera and act and direct. That's not how a team works. There's teams for reasons. And so to have all these different people in place is how the magic happened. And if I were to go back and coach myself, I would take

take more ownership on what I was creating versus just reacting to what was just thrown at me and I saw in my life for a long number of years and I'm working on now is how do I build a life that I want to live? How do I produce that versus just reacting? Again, I didn't have vision for a very long time. I didn't have an idea or an intention of even what I wanted other than make more money or get a better job or

or work-life balance, like all these things that sound great or we can put on a bumper sticker, and I wasn't getting there. I was just letting life happen at me and thought, it is what it is, right? And so that's where I get creative. That's where I get to do my work is how do we get teams to a spot where they feel creative, taking ownership and clear on what they want to create?

Sean Patton (35:25)
Yeah, that's awesome. you know, it's funny. was just going to ask about the outcomes of that team when you find vision. and I think you, would sort of like answer that question preemptively with you talked about like the energy and like the, you feel the sense of creativity that you had when you started finding, started finding vision. How would you, you mentioned that for so many years you were in this reactive.

⁓

Did you know you were in a reactive mode? Like was that, or was it realization when those things like you don't know until you're out of it or?

Shea Smith (35:52)
I didn't.

Yeah, I think part of it was, you know, being in my twenties, right? So I just kind of wandered through life, right? And not just to shame myself about being in my twenties at some point, but just really looking at hindsight now, now having the language, that's why I was so exhausted. That's why I was so frustrated. That's why I felt so overwhelmed. I wasn't taking any ownership or very little at best.

I took ownership of getting a job, right? I showed up to be able to have the skills and the be hireable and I could do good work. Again, that all or nothing. Start and stop. And so that middle ground of how do I want to like, do I want to make an impact on my team? Right? How do I want to lead? How do I want to manage? How do I want to be experienced as a supervisor?

And now having this work in this language, can see so clearly like, that's why this wasn't working. That's why I wasn't getting the result even in those relational.

visions, those goals, right? Or getting hired on the next show, all those different elements that I couldn't explain. Why isn't this working? Why is just everyone else is getting the jobs and I'm not? whatever other disempowered language I want to shout out at myself, right? And we experience that on teams, right? Like when we talk about, like said, the energy is different. I think we've all been in been in conversations with someone who it just you leave and you're just drained, right? That disempowerment is almost contagious. Just complaining and that.

the venting, problem, but like, you know, at some point it starts to just drain. And so, you know, I experienced that. I was like, I contributed to that. And that was a result of me just being like, well, I just have to deal with what I've, you know, deal the hand I've been given.

Sean Patton (37:27)
And that Shana is so great. I guess on, on closing, we have, we've talked a lot about vision. We've talked a lot about like why, how, how to relate to it. And if, you know, someone's listening to this and they're like, think, I think I got it, but I kind of, you know, like you said, that whole like busy thing. What would you tell them? Like what's on the other side of, of this type of clarity?

Shea Smith (37:48)
Yeah, I think if you have something in your mind right now thinking, man, I'm really curious about that. I don't know. Maybe what if that could be me? I wonder if I'm the unicorn that it wouldn't work for. If you're asking yourself any of these questions or more, like, really want this thing. I don't even want to say it out loud. That's it's time to have a conversation. It's time to come talk to Sean. It's time to get somebody to spot you in this because you are capable of immeasurably more.

especially if you're already thinking like, is that gonna be? And you feel that almost that unsettled feeling. You're right. You are right. You are capable of more. You are capable of achieving thrilling, impossible outcomes. You are capable of being a leader that has a team that actually enjoys their work. You are capable of change.

You were capable of changing your experience and we are here to help you. There's so much support for you. There people that love helping you with this and you know, whenever you're ready, whenever you're ready and before you're ready, really come have a conversation with Sean. Cause I just, we just, we just see lives change. I know it's an easy thing to say and to point to and you know, go have a conversation, you know, and we mean it. This work is worth it.

Sean Patton (38:45)
Yeah.

Shea Smith (38:56)
It is worth the pain of it was worth growing pains and we've seen it on the individual level. Like I said, the personal levels, the team levels, organization and the whole point of this for me is the stories that you're putting yourself out putting out there in the world, the change that you're creating, the impact that you want to have with your company, with your life, with the experience that you were living. Right. I think the world needs that.

And if you're burned out and overwhelmed and about ready to quit, like we're going to miss out and I don't want I don't want to miss out and I don't want you to miss out. So that's feel very strongly about this.

Sean Patton (39:27)
I love the passion when I'm hearing is, you know, I do, have my own opinion that because of the gratitude that I have to be alive in this place, in this time, and knowing in my speech I give on stages right now, I use this point that, a hundred billion humans have walked the earth.

There's been a hundred billion other people and look what they have built for us, right? through immense struggles and suffering. And so I look at it, if you look at through that lens, I feel a strong sense of moral obligation to chase greatness, to chase what I'm capable of, to maximize impact out of just a reverence for life itself.

Shea Smith (39:54)
Thanks

Hmm.

Hmm

Yeah, that's great. That's great.

Sean Patton (40:17)
So I feel like between the two of us, the people are fired up right now. Like, I feel like we did our job. Let's go.

Shea Smith (40:19)
I hope so. I hope so. Let's go. Man, you've got a big

life to live. Let's do it.

Sean Patton (40:28)
Absolutely. Shay, this has been awesome. We'll obviously put all your links and everything in the show notes. But if there's like one place if someone's trying to get to Shay right now or find out what you're about, what you're putting out in the world, what's the best place for them to go?

Shea Smith (40:40)
Yeah, come over to LinkedIn. I'm Shay Smith. I'm also on Instagram, the Shay Smith. There's kind of a lot of Shay Smith. So look for us look for Novus Global, and we'll be there ready to go.

Sean Patton (40:49)
Awesome. Thanks so much for your time, Chase. It's been great.

Shea Smith (40:51)
Thanks so much, Sean.