From Nightclub Promoter to $20M Hamptons Developer | Michael Frank | BAT Disrupt

He went from promoting nightclubs to building $20 million homes in the Hamptons. Michael Frank's path to becoming one of the East End's most respected developers is nothing like what you'd expect.

What you'll learn:
• How Michael Frank went from nightclub promoter and marketing employee to visionary Hamptons developer
• Why new zoning codes are quietly reshaping what gets built on the East End
• The difference between speculative building and design-forward development with real integrity
• What today's luxury buyers actually expect from a ground-up Hamptons home in 2025

Michael Frank is a Hamptons-based developer known for design-forward new construction across the East End. His builds in Amagansett, Sagaponack, and beyond are redefining what modern Hamptons architecture looks like.

Filmed inside one of Frank's newest builds in Amagansett Lanes, currently represented by BAT.

BAT Disrupt is hosted by Matt Breitenbach — born and raised in the Hamptons, Managing Principal Broker and CEO of the Breitenbach Advisory Team (BAT). Twenty years in this market. Over $3 billion in career sales. He started at 22, crossed $1 billion in sales before 30, and has represented NBA champions, hedge fund principals, and entertainment executives across some of the most significant transactions on the East End — including the $85M former Calvin Klein oceanfront estate.

BAT is the Hamptons' leading luxury real estate team. Featured in Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, and Billboard. Named by Inman News as one of the best real estate podcasts in the country.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Matt Bright back here. Very special Bat Disrupt episode, season three, first episode. We're in Amiganset with developer Michael Frank. Welcome, Michael. We're in your beautiful house in uh Amigansett that we have on the market. Uh we'll put the link in the bio for you guys, but thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah. So listen, we're in this house. This is 2025. This is your present version. And I think what this podcast I'd really love to get into is kind of the past, present, and then the future of new development in the Hamptons. And also like your story, like the journey from the past to now. So like let's talk about the past. I mean, what why did you why development? Like, why'd you get into building houses and selling them?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

I'd say it was sort of by accident. And now it's um 20 plus years later. Um I was like a lot of um kids out of college um in the late 90s and um moved into New York City. And part of living in New York City at that time and still is coming out to the Hamptons in the summer when you're in your 20s. Um so I had come out here for the first time, even though I grew up in Long Island in Nassau County. Yeah. Really I hadn't been out to the Hamptons until I was like uh 23 years old. So now it's uh mid to late 90s. And one of the side things I was doing at that time, believe it or not, was like promoting nightclubs and bars and that kind of thing. Um so with that was a great connection uh to sharehouses in the Hamptons during the late 90s. Uh that's what brought me out here, was starting to run uh sharehouses in Quag. Um and uh I saw an opportunity in 1998 when I was 20, I was 24 years old. I bought my first house in Southampton. Um and um, you know, it was quite a different house than what we're kind of building now.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So did shareholders like that that money then helped you buy another.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, so I always had at that time I was uh had a what we call like a regular New York City job in marketing, um, but I always had uh sort of this more entrepreneurial stuff going on at that time. It was uh you know, running nightclubs, doing share houses. You know, prior to that in college, I was the guy who sold like all the spring break trips. You know, prior to that, I was like 12-year-old with a company shoveling um snow out of drive. So it's like it's ingrained in you. It's it's definitely ingrained in me. Um so um sort of just um came out here, and aside from seeing the opportunity and the fun of being out here in my 20s, it was um I also really appreciated the beauty and the nature, yeah, and was really um turned on by the real estate that was happening at that time, which was in the late 90s, yeah. And just curious about um you know what's going on. I'm seeing like these big houses going up. How does it work? Um, and that led me to basically in 2004 buy my first property, which was a vacant pro uh piece of property, a three-acre property on Butter Lane in Bridgehampton. Um I think your mother might have even been involved in that deal. Um but um I think my sort of um naivety worked for me, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs would say that from the start. I was uh I was like, okay, let me uh buy the property, build uh get a builder to build it, and see what happens. Yeah. And um luckily that was uh in 2004, and then so no experience, like you just kind of like was like I think I always just you know appreciated beautiful houses. Yeah, uh my parents tell me, um again, it's a different generation now, this is before the internet, but like when I was a young kid growing up in the 80s, my dad would always get the Sunday New York Times, and there was uh um uh the New York Times magazine was always like a part of that, and they would be uh listing homes in Bedford and in New Canaan, Connecticut, um, in these big, beautiful homes. And at a very young age, I just had a very strong affinity toward that. So homes like real estate. Like just real estate, big houses. Um I also grew up in a neighborhood in Nassau County, uh, not our house, but um within a few miles were some very, very substantial like mansions and stuff. I knew what it looked like and I was always fascinated by it. Um I come out here and um you know, fast forward a little bit past these sharehouse days, um, I purchased that property on Butter Lane and uh had great success. I mean there was a great uh if you were to look at a chart, 04 to 06 sold one of these Hampton huge climbs. So my timing was really good and had done really well on that piece on Butter Lane. So you build the developer and then you see it does it sell fast? I mean, how does it sold relatively fast? Yeah. Um again, I I I think it took uh a lot longer than I thought the builder uh would say to build the house. It took a couple years, but um actually that timing sort of worked well because the market had sort of shifted upward at that time. Um and then just with good timing, like my regular career in Manhattan was really taking off, and I was doing really well with that. And my neighbor, I had moved from um Southampton to Wainscott, and my neighbor at the time was working in real estate as an agent, but he had a background in building houses. Um we connected with an architect and an engineer. Uh, this is 2006, and he said to me, No, why, you know, I had acquired a couple other pieces of property at the time. And he's like, Why are you gonna hire a builder? Let's let's just start something. And I was like, sure, you know, this is 2006. Uh that sounds like a pretty good idea. And 25 houses later, here we are. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I mean, where would you say from like 2004, 5, 6, where do you think development was there in the Hamptons? Like, what's the difference between then and now?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Um, very different. I think that I kind of remember at the time there was like like two big speculative builders at the time, right? There was uh Joe, Joe Farrell was sort of like just uh was pretty much a decade out of the gate and really just like blowing things up on here, and then there was like Michael Davis, who was uh doing some of these bigger projects out in psychoponic. Um and to me, and it's it's interesting today now to be friendly with both of them because they were really like two people I had sort of really looked up to when I first started. Um and but I think differently then, I mean when we were building houses in 2006, 2008, like we didn't even finish basements then. Yeah, like I was sorry, go stylistically like and like floor plan-wise, like what are the differences like you think from the I I think then the speculative builders, like you said, we weren't finishing basements, and you were almost delivering like a white box, and you would almost show the houses when you're finished, um, without furniture, these big kind of echoey boxes. Yeah. Um never a big trim, a lot of trim, too. A lot of trim. Yeah, I mean, stylistically, things have definitely moved.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

And then, you know, it's funny, it's funny how the style has shifted too, because I feel like it was like that. Never that Brazilian cherry, it was like the dark floor, white walls. It was like, you know, now everything's like neutral and natural.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Who knows? It might come back to the bottom. Yeah, no, but does it come back? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

That's the question. Does it come back? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, I mean, I I think there was a lot a lot more trim. Um, but I think as time kind of went by, then we went to like, of course you're gonna finish the basement. Then it was a, you know, of course you've got to do the high-end plumbing fixtures. And I think as we you know, where we are today is I think the customer, even in the speculative world, um expects a custom home. So they they they walk into a home, and even though a um builder had built it for spec, they're not looking for like a white house with you know um you know basic stuff in it. Their expectations have changed. I mean, I think it's changed certainly in the price points that we've been building in, which is the $10 to $20 million price point.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I would love to like into that too. Like, I mean, it's probably acquiring property then and selling. I mean, it was probably like there's live less competition, right? Like, was it easier to acquire land then?

SPEAKER_01 7:56

I think it always in like in the rearview mirror, it looks, it feels easier, but I think at the time it, you know, you can look in the rear view mirror and say, oh yeah, like an acre in Sagaponic South used to be four million and now it's seven million. Um but at the time four million felt like a lot of people. It felt like seven million, too.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah because uh five years prior to that it was two million. And also the selling prices have obviously shifted too.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah, you know, you know. But I I I think nowadays it's much harder for for variousers, A, that it's just less availability of good ideal location real estate. And I think more people are willing to build. So I think that the developers have more competition, A, amongst one another, and B amongst end users who may be willing to pay more money for that teardown or that vacant piece of property, um, because they're not going into it needing a margin.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah, I've seen it, it's it's been a really cool watching the evolution of building and development in the Hamptons, just in general, and then also being from a family of builders, like my dad and my brother, but they from the customer aspect and just hearing it from them, like seems like it used to be in the past, like even the 2004-26 and years prior, and then you know, you you would buy a piece of property in the Hamptons as a buyer if you want a new construction, and then you go hire an architect and hire a builder, and you'd build it, right? Or I feel like you know, you were part of this first group that really started like developing a house, like, okay, here it's turnkey for you. And I feel like that market's gotten shrunk, and then more people have come developing to then push that market, whereas like you know, that market has shrunk from the custom aspect, but then like now there's like design and build, and there's all these like kind of concepts where I feel like you got, you know, the new, especially you, like I feel like it's done a great job of like bringing it all in house. Like design, build, the whole thing, like even this beautiful house we're in, like it's curated to a T.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, I I think we've seen a lot more um builders come into this Hamptons market, seeing that the potential upside and the opportunity that other areas don't have, which has made it even more competitive, which I think has made people like me really needing to be on um the A game. But I think what really differentiates me from a lot of these other builders um is that uh they they might have you know three, four, ten projects going on all at the same time. I've always had at the same time maybe one or two projects, and I think the benefit to the home and to the potential home buyer is that the home has gotten my full attention. I'm involved in every aspect of the home, every detail of the home. Um if you ever come to our job site while it's being built, every single day there's a project manager on site. You know, sometimes you go to these new builds and there's just you know, and the like you know, like electricians here, plumbers here, framers here. But there's no management going on and it's completely chaotic, which um, you know, I I've kept my model doing one or two at a time because I think it's just been beneficial to me. It's just the way I prefer to run the business, and I think it's beneficial to the home.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

I think your style is amazing too. And I think one thing I want to get into like is designer developing. And I feel like I always consider you like a designer developer because your product is elevated. And I as a broker, like I love working with people like you or selling your product because it has an elevate, like you really care. You know, there is still those developers out there that are still maybe caught in that like white box face, right? Like where it's very mundane and very much the same. And like that's what I love about what you like, even this house, and we can start talking about this house, but like just the the like the materials you use, like the Venetian plaster, like you have like different, like it's just not nothing's like the same. So like I guess talk about that. Let's talk about first of all, let's talk about where this house is, which is Amigansett Lanes. And I feel like you've really innovated this area. So, like, I mean, talk about that journey, I guess. Like, where like why Ambiganset.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to say I was the first um speculative builder to come into the lanes. Um, I've certainly you know gone to some of the coattails of some of the people who were in here before me. Um, but my first build here, I've built this to be my fifth house in the lanes. The first one I think was uh 2017 over on Hedges Lane. Um and um at first, to be honest, like I really didn't get it. Um and then once I was in here, I fully understood why people love the lanes. Yeah. You know, obviously geographically speaking, right? We're um walking distance between a town and a beach. Um if you look on a map, you're you know, five, ten-minute drive into East Hampton Village. And now with the popularity of Montauk, it's just unbelievable here that you could be, you know, 10 minutes in a car and you're at Gurney's. Um so um I think more to it also, it's got like a different vibe. Um than let's say a Bridgehampton or Sagaponic. And what I've noticed is that every single person I've sold to in the lanes, they've never they never come in thinking like, oh, I'm deciding between Bridgehampton or the lanes. Like they only want to be in the lanes because they know about that lifestyle, they know about that vibe. Um they know that they could come here and literally not even get like into a car again during the course of the whole weekend. They could get into their flip-flop, they get into their bathing suit, and they're at the beach, they're at the farmer's market, they're at restaurants, all walkable, all bikeable from here.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yeah. To me, I always call Amigansett like the Malibu of the Hamptons. And for those out there, you know, watching this, like you know, if you're familiar, Amigansit's like it's past Sagaponic, Bridge Hampton. It's a little bit more easy. It's just kind of in between, it's it's wedged in between East Hampton and Montauk, basically. And I call it the Malibu of the Hamptons. It has that kind of Malibu feel. It's very it's affluent. It's like I always say it's like it's got a little Bridge Hampton, it's like a Bridge Hampton and Montauk had a baby. Like Amigansit is what it is, and it's like it's just a cool area. And like I feel like you've really come in here and really tried to make your mark, which is really cool watching. I mean, so yeah, I mean, was it more opportunity, or were you just like you know, you know, we talk a lot about a compass, like one of the principals is obsessed about opportunity, right? Like it seems like you saw opportunity here.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, and I think like anywhere we're gonna buy a property, it there's gotta be like a uh an upside, an opportunity. Um, but I think the opportunity is that it's so rare to find new construction in the lanes. Um, because the people who uh a lot of people have been here for a long time and they don't want to leave. I mean, I I think you know, um, one of the um people we just sold to just in the last recent years, they were New York City people. This was gonna be their second home, and they moved out to what here and they've stayed. And their kids have gone to Amaganta Elementary School, which is a great elementary school. Now their kids are at uh the junior high school here. Um uh and they've taken up surfing and they've sold their place in the city, and this is their full-time place. So I think that the lanes is an interesting place, not only in the summer, but in the off-season, that like you could walk up and down the lanes, and there's actually people here.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I know it is, it's and we could talk about that too. I feel like I always say the Hamptons changed from a resort town to a country town, and we talked a lot, we talked a lot about that personally all the time on the phone, about the lifestyle of living in the city, here, back and forth. Like, I have a friend who goes to school with my kids in Bridgehampton and he lives in Abghanson full-time, and he trade he's a trader, he trades grain, which is like I think sometimes the markets shut down at three, I don't know, no, no, fully, whatever. But he was telling me the other day at a birthday party, he was like, and then he goes for a paddleboard. Right, whatever the season, he has a like a full wetsuit, he'll go out and like even in the winter, and he's like, it's amazing. Like at late afternoon, get out there, go walk for the beach, and like it's really amazing the Hamptons lifestyle changed. Like, and I guess like how have you changed the way you build? Have you changed the way you build a little bit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I mean, just going on to that, I another trend that I see, and this is uh a house that we just sold down the block a couple years ago, and I'm hearing about this through other agents and a couple other sales here. We're seeing like a migration of people who have like these bigger homes in Watermelon Bridge Hampton with you know 8,000 feet and a tennis court and big yard, who um that's become like another um audience for the lanes that they like, you know what, we're gonna downsize, it's a little bit too much, and we really want to be you know in an area where we could walk to town and walk to the beach. So I'm definitely seeing some of that. Um if we talk about like the houses themselves, you know, so I think my one of my best skills is being able to like look at a survey and come up with a site plan and a floor plan. Yeah. Um and what attracted me to this lot at 63 Han Lane, um, again, if we if we take a step back, you know, I I think if you're looking for three acres sprawled out, you're not a lanes person. Um you know, obviously the the acreage in the lanes is smaller, they tend to be half acre lots, or some of them a quarter acre lots, and some of them a little bit maybe three quarter acre lots. Um but when I look at it, um I I looked at this as like, okay, it's a half acre, but one of the benefits of this lot was that it was um about 15 feet wider than your typical half acre in the lanes. Typical half acre is about 100 feet wide, this one's about 115 feet wide. And um I had done another one down the street at 115 feet, and it really gave an appearance of a substantial house, and having that width really allows you to do like a more open, um, more sophisticated, more um uh desired floor plan. So that was one of the things that I really liked about this lot, in addition to the fact that it's in the lanes and like you could walk to the farmer's market in five minutes and be on a bike and be in the beach in five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Um, so I go into these projects thinking like, okay, I've got the right width, I've got the right length, I've got the site plan that I could come up with that people are gonna like. To me, that means that it, you know, it's a it's a nice size house, I've got room for a pool. You know, when we you look at the back of this house, we did the pool vertically, and I've got room for like a big yard. You know, there's still a substantial yard back then. We got the pool house, um, you know, uh, we were able to take the pool equipment, put it in the basement, you know, of the uh of the pool house, which allows it, you don't have to see it, you don't have to hear it. Um so those are just the things that I'm constantly thinking about. When it comes to like this house in terms of floor plan, um, again, there's code in East Hampton, which we could talk about a little bit later, which has changed. Yeah. But basically, here we were allowed about 3,700 feet above ground, um, and then we were allowed to go underground. But with the 3,700 feet, in my mind, I think, how do I get, is it big enough to get a master plus three rooms, all three bedrooms all in suite upstairs?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I love that primary with the with the vaulted ceiling.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

But like, you know, had it been with the new code, there's no way you're getting four bedrooms upstairs. At best, you're getting three bedrooms upstairs. And I think that's a I think that's a big deal. Yeah when we look at the first floor here, right? We've got like a great room. You know, things that I think about, like anything over 15 foot height in the code gets counted twice toward your allowable. So we're sitting here in a 14 foot 11-inch living room, which gives some really good volume to that.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Like I've this for those out there too, like what we're talking about is the zoning codes in the Hamptons and how that's very challenging sometimes. And really, we add a lot of value in the Hamptons for certain things. Like we talk about the value here, right? Because you can't recreate this right now with the current zoning regulations. That's right. And that's in the Hamptons sometimes. I always joke, like sometimes in the Hamptons you have residents, they have they have like the big house, but they don't want the neighbor to have the same size house. They cut down every tree, but then they're like, no, you can't cut down any tree. So it's it's kind of a Hamptons thing, but it it's it's really adds value. Like I feel like sometimes in the Hamptons, it is one of those real estate areas where it's like value can be really tied to what you can do. And you see that in certain areas, even like a Sag Harbor village or something, where it's just like, you know, it's a period house that's a certain size, like you can never replicate that house again. It's kind of like here, you you know, now the zoning code changes, like now you have a triple square footage.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So I mean, if we talk about those zoning code changes, you know, we were allowed 3,700 feet above ground, the new code only allowed for about 2,900 feet above ground. That's a difference of about 800 square feet plus whatever square footage that would be in the basement, call it another 12, uh, another 400 feet. So I think if you pulled 1,200 square feet out of this house, for me personally, I'm not buying this lot, at least at that price that I had paid for the lot, if I had only with the new code. Um, but so the fact that the code has changed, I think there's real, there's a there's something here that's really valuable because um we've we've finished it in time before the code, and it's something that like moving forward, someone would need almost to buy a three-quarter acre lot in the lanes to get the same size house, which is you know, finding a three-quarter acre lot in the lanes, you know, you might have to wait a decade for that and then pay up for that.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

No, for sure. That's I think that's the one thing too, like inventory issues too, as well. I think to the value here, it's like it's really hard to find the property, and it's you know, it's it's hard. It's really hard. So I guess like you know, like leaning into this house. Sure. So you've developed this. I love that you cut and customized this house, and I feel like that's what I love working with you too. Like it's like some developers are like they're gonna put the same house on the property no matter what. You know, what what are some of your favorite features of this house that you've done?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, so I think I went into this house um wanting it to be um a little bit more zen, a little bit more warm um than some of the other homes I have done. And what we did with that was used of um a little less grays and silvers and more of like um beiges and browns. Yeah. Um I think um we've used a lot more um actual um oak and wood detail, like you can see on the ceilings throughout the house.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I love that detail in the Ceruzo, some of that stuff and the oak, in that that primary too, when that went that in the ceiling, it's just nice.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I think like that really has beencome a great trend, and a trend that I actually continue seeing.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

It's almost like it's almost like it's almost like Norwegian or something. Like some of these like neutrals, the Hamptons, you see it coming in. The buyers demand it a little bit. It's not like we kind of went through a phase of like, you know, we were talking about before we started with like black floors, white walls, and then we went to like, you know, some of the grays and like those darker navies and things, and now we're kind of into this neutral beiges and everything else. And you I think you really nailed it with this house. It feels very warm.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I I think that's it, and I think that like that's the feeling um that I'm I I really want to target. Um again, I I think um for me, I'm sort of like one of the people who would probably buy this house. So uh my wife and I, we have two little girls, like we go back and forth from the city to here, um, and I think I know what I have a pretty good sense of like what people are looking for. Um and I've lived in houses that I've built like this. And I lived in the white box, and I lived in um you know the latest house is more of this style. And it's just like an enjoyable place to be. It's very like soothing to be in this kind of home.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

I feel like developers in you know, like you you you build a house, it's like it must be really hard not to move into the house and stay here, you know. And and even when you build something for yourself, I feel like sometimes the wives of developers don't want me coming to the door because then I'm like, oh, we should sell it. And they're like, no, no, get out of here. You keep selling the houses.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

It's uh you know, we live in a uh A house in Watermill that uh I built in 2022, it wasn't so hard moving into it. The hard part is not wanting to sell it. Um I know because you keep calling me about it, you're like, oh, you think it's worth it? It's like, you know, yeah, it's it is hard. It's very hard as a uh being in real estate to not sell a house that has so much equity in it. But um, but we really enjoy it. And um, you know, again, coming back to here, floor plan, just things that kind of like go through my mind while I'm you know making up this house. It's like, okay, we got the four bedrooms upstairs. We need to get a bedroom in the first floor that could fit a king-sized bed. Because you know, a lot of people who are gonna buy this house have older parents, um, and they're not gonna want to go up and down the stairs. So that's something else that we had here. Um, even when I furnish the house, you know, I make sure I say, hey, this is a king-sized bed on the first floor. If you look at the social rooms on the first floor, we've got a den, we've got this great room, and we've got a front room that could either be used as a dining room or like a breakfast room or an office.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And the light in here too is great. And I think that indoor to, which you see in the Hamptons, it's big too, it's like the indoor to outdoor living they call it. Like everything kind of flows out. Yeah, I love that density.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

The den to that outside.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

An outdoor fireplace, like, especially those. I mean, talk about that a bit too. Like, I think that's a great room, like, even that outdoor space. Like, I feel like that's when the Hamptons right have become more year-round homes or like extended season homes, where like I could just see, like, you put a football game on there in November and just hang out out there.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I think that's a huge place that people hang out. I think that's something that again has evolved in the speculative world. Like, I don't think speculators were ever gonna put that in. Oh, yeah. It was always gonna be like, oh, that's an extra. You know, we o we put that in, we put in an outdoor kitchen, which is amazing on the other side of the backyard.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I feel like early development was really bad at hardscaping, landscaping. And like, you could always, I always joke, you could tell like, oh, the the builder must have drawn draw this, like, drew this like driveway. It was just like you know, it was like one line, like that was it. And now it's like it's all about a lot of this stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It's all like now we have a landscape architect, now we have a very high-end uh landscape company that installs it. You know, it's like completely changed. Um, but I can I think that's because the customer demands it. You know, if they're gonna buy a turnkey house, they want to be like you know, kind of like wiping their hands, be like, okay, they like you know, I get we get it, you know, the prices have evolved with it, but at least you know we're getting like the full package.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah, I feel like everything it's funny this too. I can see being in real estate from a sales perspective. I feel like brokerage has evolved, you know, teams have evolved. I feel like there's more competition as developers, there's more competition in development, there's more competition in real estate. You know, there's different boutiques that have popped up, like it's just gotten younger, the business in general. I feel like you know, from development too, there's so much more like competition. And the trick, even on the sales side, or as a broker or even as a developer, if you're like, all right, how do you like innovate? How do you stay ahead of the game? And like, you know, what do you what do you think? What's what's your like elevator pitch that come in when you you want me to like I'm a buyer, like right? What's like what's the what's your differentiator?

SPEAKER_01 24:45

I mean, I I think that what differentiates me would be if you um talked to every single person who's ever um purchased and moved into a house that I've built, um, you know, I I be it would be my pleasure to give a list of the phone numbers. And I've it's interesting, like a lot of my friends are the people who've moved into the houses that I've built.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Um and that's just sort of the person that I am. So I would say that I'm selling myself. I'm selling the fact that like you're in good hands with me. And um, like I said, I end up developing really great friendships with almost every single person I've ever sold a house with.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

That's what I love about you too, as a broker. It's great because like, you know, like me and you have been on showings together with people and like almost sold houses together, right? Like, so it's like you when you're you're you're a great personal person and you really kind of understand the sales side of this as well as the development side, right? So you like you're so good at getting in front of people and building like and and making them feel comfortable, right? Or making them feel comfortable in your product because you're selling your product, and like you know, there's so many horror stories sometimes about the construction or something breaks or whatever, so there's like a nervousness, and like it's so it's so great working with you because we can go then, hey, let's go meet this client together. Yeah, yeah, like you were even here when I brought that buyer through, who hopefully will come back and purchase it. But like we brought them back through and you were here, and it was so fantastic. And what's interesting about that too is like I think at the root of real estate, despite like building or even like my business, right? Like, we can all have these things that we do where I build the best house, or I'm like, I'm so good at this as a broker, but at the root of it's just relationship, right? And like relationships with people, and that's so cool that like you're like go call the people that know me and who I've worked with. Yeah, and that's so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

I mean, I I think there's something in business that says don't take it personal, and I probably I don't adhere to that because I do take it personal. And I say this all the time, and maybe it's just the buyer that I attract. Like I I really like every single buyer that has come to me, you know, and now we're talking about a couple dozen over the last 20 years. Like, I I I think I've just attracted that kind of person. Um, and I think that um it's just in my personality to understand that they're making a big investment. You know, this is these homes are a lot of money, and it's something that they've worked hard for. And I appreciate the fact that like they're they're putting an asset, that they're buying an asset that has such value, and that um, you know, I take that very seriously. Yeah. Like, and that you know, we're gonna be here for them. That like, you know, uh, especially, you know, I don't care who's building the house, when the person people first move in, and there's the first month or two, and finally every faucet's being used, and every shower's being used, and like the house is a good thing. Well, like, you know, we've I mean we've never had anything urgent and or major in our house, but there's like little things that come up, you know, it's a quick fix, it's a battery that needs to be the replace. I mean, I I hear these stories, like people call the builder and they don't get a call back, and I think it's the most, it's the craziest thing. You know, we get a phone call, and you know, i i I A, I'll always pick up the phone if I'm failable, and B, I you know, if if I'm not, you get a phone call back right away. So I think that that's a huge thing for me. It's not like when you buy a new home, a new construction home, you've bought it from somebody else, and they can just like wipe their hands and leave, in which they don't they don't have to stay. You're buying a house, that's you're buyer, you know, that's their risk book for their someone buying a new construction house, at least for me, is like, you know, you're safe, we're here for you, um, and you've you got my work. I think there's a lot of integrity behind this house.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

I think I heard this the other communication is a form of like of respect, right? Like how you if you communicate with someone, if you're not getting back to them, you obviously just like a lower respect for them. Right, right. And I think that's I th I was like something I was like, oh, that's so good. And I think that's great, like just how you communicate. And I feel like it's also like along the vein of like I feel like in in modern day, you know, staying in the modern real quick, and then we're gonna go to the future next here is like like the like customer experience, client experience is so paramount because that's how you create, you know, in the flywheel of business, you create those raving fans that really have a great experience with you. They're gonna come back, like all these people that you know you have their numbers and you you'll give out, they're telling all their friends. And the Hamptons in this kind of small luxury community, your reputation is really everything.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yeah, yeah. And and I think that uh like as a um builder, we've been hurt by some bad apples out there because people hear stories and then they like brokers too. They just don't want to like get into it because they hear these stories. Yeah, and um you know, and I think that that requires us really going and communicating and like having them do their homework, talk to the referrals, talk to the house, walk through the other houses, see the conditions of them. And that's all stuff that like I like that. You know, I like when the the like when the broker comes to me like, they're really interested in your house, but could we walk through a couple of your houses that you've built? And you know, uh the answer is of course, yeah, when.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah, no, I think it's really amazing to see the product. So, you know, I think moving to the future. Um, what's next for you? So, you know, hopefully we sell this really fast and someone buys it from this video, maybe. I don't know, but but uh like what's next for you?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Um next up for us, um I have a property in Psychoponic. Um and um just kind of getting through the ARB and some of the um, different price points too. Like, yeah, like different different price point.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I want to talk to you about like what is there a difference between a $20 million price point and your process, how you handle a $20 million price point and say, you know, $10 million price point?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Well $12. It's crazy that we think about like all of a sudden like the $10 million price point is like not necessarily as high, you know, that high end. And only in the bubble of the Hamptons that like is you know, $10 million now is just so like a like a like a common thought in the middle of the street.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Oh, it's not I feel like we have this is different levels of luxury in the Hamptons. There's like there's like luxury, you have ultra, then you have like this pinnacle level of like chaos out here.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

I mean, I I think when you get that jump from 10 to 20 million, I mean there's there are certain things. I think it's gonna be even more curated. Um I think there's um a sense of maybe getting um a name designer involved in the project when it's a twenty million dollar project. Um I think the twenty million dollar projects for the most part tend to be bigger pieces of property. So you're gonna have like you know bigger landscaping, more elaborate landscaping, bigger pools, patios. I mean, it just kind of goes on and on and on. But like I I think that like the guts of the house don't, you know, at least for me, don't really change too much from a $10 to $20 million home.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Um you know, I I just I'm not gonna take shortcuts, you know, whether it's a $2 million home, a $10 million home, or $20 million home. That's just me. I'm not gonna like try to save something a little bit here because that'll just end up kicking you in the butt later.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah. Um Do you think a Sagoponic buyer? I mean, they're probably different, obviously. I heard you say like a lanes buyer, I'm against it buyer, lanes buyer is a buyer, I'm against it buyer, but is there a difference you think between a sagoponic or what you can do?

SPEAKER_01 31:29

I think this the sagoponic property we have coming up is an acre and a half.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

It's uh you know, a 10,000 square foot house planned, but a tennis court. I think there's people out there who want a tennis court.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

You know, you're not gonna get a tennis court in the lanes. Um so I I think it's just the um I don't think they're the same buyer.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

No, I agree. I agree. I think it's yeah, I do, I do think it's a little bit different. I think it's a little bit I it could be in some way, like maybe demographic, like you said, like young family, two kids or something, or it could also be like, you know, an older gentleman too. I feel like it's a little bit bigger range there, you know, where you know, where I feel like Amigansett has a little bit of that younger family, beachy like vibe of that kind of clientele.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Of our five, of the four houses that we have sold so far, I mean three of them were uh young family with younger kids. Yeah, but um the one that we had done custom for down the block, which was an amazing house because it was like the one acre, full acre, in the lanes, which is like, you know, you never find and that turned into a custom based on a floor plan. Like we never even, you know, it that that just got eaten up as soon as that was listed a couple years ago. And um again, that that's a family who had a big house in Watermill um off of hay ground. Um, you know, 12,000 feet, tennis court, the whole thing, and they just wanted to kind of like their kids were kind of getting older, college, post-college. Um, but more importantly, they just wanted like the beach life. Yeah, that's really interesting. And they felt like they weren't using their tennis court and they weren't using their giant backyard. And they were like, and what's the I think the most important part, so they've of course become friends of mine. And I so they've been here for two years. And these this would this would be a great family if someone was interested in talking to, because they'd be more than happy to talk about like the shift from big house watermill to lanes. And they said a completely different experience and a hundred times better.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Wow. Yeah, I think you're right. And it kind of leads it leads us into, I mean, in the question for you is like, where do you where's where do you think the buyer trends of the future are going? Like, do you think they're gonna be that much different? You think they're gonna be the same? I mean, what's your take on the future of like buyer demand out here for new construction? I think it'll always be here.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Um I think that people, there's just people who like brand new.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

They don't want to move into a uh Or like what kind of homes? Like what kind of like you think there's certain features they're gonna want, or maybe different or changing, or maybe they're down, you know. What do you think is gonna happen trend wise?

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I think trend wise you're gonna start to see like you get like in town in East Hampton, which is you know, Amicans is included, the houses, the new houses are gonna be smaller, because they have to be smaller based on the new code. Sagaponica has a very strict code, North Haven has a strict code. Um, so the buyers, for better or for worse, might have to adapt to a little bit smaller home than that that they might have desired. I think modern is in, I mean, I think you're seeing a lot more flat roof modern houses. I think people are liking that.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Would you ever build a straight, straight up, full modern? I'd love to.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

I mean, I definitely would I I think it's gonna be the right property. Yeah. But I um it's one of my um definitely desires is to buy a property in the near future, be it on water, uh, be it somewhere where like um a modern makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah. That's really interesting. So that's one of your so the future you're hoping to build. That's you you want to keep leaning into Amiganset? I mean, where's like a go with it?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Amiganset's gonna be tough right now until we see the effects of this new code change. Yeah. You know, again, like I think the being it being the fact that we're in business here and that there needs to be a margin, now what happens to these half acres that were selling for three and a half or four million dollars, with the knowing that you could build 6,000 feet on three levels. Yeah. Now rewind, and now what's that half acre worth if you can only do 4,500 feet or 4,200 feet on three levels? Um, so you know, I'd be uh to be honest, I'm I'm a little hesitant to buy in the lanes based on this new code, unless it was just like this amazing opportunity, but time will tell.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

But yeah, what do you think so like because land prices are so high, right? And it's so hard. And you see like a bunch of stuff at Bridgehampton South has came on for 7 million bucks, right? These lots used to be $4 million, right? And it seems like the developers are trying to like understand. Yeah, you know, it's like I feel like the Hamptons market just in general is trying to get its footing a little bit and where some of the stuff's supposed to trade. Like, where like what do you think is gonna happen with development? Like, you think there's some of these developers, because we've had this influx of all these new developers, right? Like, are they gonna go, we can have less of them? You think there's gonna be more of them? Like, I don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah, I think a lot of that depends on the overall economy of like of the country, of the world. You know, I I think um some builders go in, certainly I don't. I actually have no debt on any home that I built, which most when I talk to other builders, developers just can't believe. Yeah. But to me, like the value of a good night's sleep is worth more than taking on multiple parts.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

You have the yeah, the clocks tick in on that with the insta-screen.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah, but like you know, someone takes out a hard money loan at 11%, um and all of a sudden the market turns or the world turns, you know, like now they're under a lot of pressure to sell it, and potentially, you know, they have to hold it longer. Hold it longer might mean, you know, they could actually like end up losing money or go belly up on it. So I think that's another thing when people go and look uh hire builders for them, or even look at spec houses, like who's the builder? Yeah, you know, um, can they afford to continue to keep to service the house?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, let's say I love value too because you kind of keep it small, but it's really about kind of profitability and doing well and not laying yourself with debt, where some of these builders sometimes are it's kind of like anything, any entrepreneur in any business, or even like real estate or your brokerage or whatever, like you're laying with debt, you're trying to grow, grow, you're trying to spend, spend. Like we're talking about that off camera, like growth versus profitability. Like, you know, you kind of want to be leaning towards in this world, like more part of profitability, you know. And some of these developers too, I've seen too. They it's kind of like they almost operate like a hedge fund, they just raising capital, maybe they have equity. So there's like so many different ways to cut it. But it's kind of cool that you're kind of, which seems like you're just the way you build too, is very hands-on.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah. I mean, um, for lack of a very, it feels a bit um mom-pop in the sense that like I'm involved in so in in all of the decisions. Yeah. Um and it's, you know, it's my money that's being invested, you know, and that the money that I've worked for. So I I think that comes out in the quality and in the relationships that I have with the people that I ended up selling houses to. But going back to your point about those $7 million lots on, I think we were talking maybe about Summerfield, right? Which was a house that we had finished uh Twitch entering three.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

That other one just came out on Cobb, Cobb Road for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

You know, I remember people thought I was nuts on Summerfield, I had to pay five million for the teardown. On reserve, too. On reserve, and now not as good lots are at 7 million. With no reserve. With no reserve. But what's interesting is that like some people would be like, oh, these speculative guys who don't like them, blah, blah, blah. The only reason they're asking seven million is because we ended up getting 13 million on the block. So that gives them now the comp and the math to ask these higher.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

And as a broker, it's so sometimes it makes our job hard too, because we'll talk to like the resale person, and then they're like, well, you know, this was traded for 12 down the block, right? Yeah, that was 10,000 square feet. Your house was built in like 1994, like no disrespect to it. Like, right. So that's like the hard, I think the hard jam up sometimes in the Hamptons market is like the resale stuff too. Like, what's that worth in comparison to the new construction? Right? You have sometimes you have these homes that they're falling between like a teardown or technically teardown or land value, and then something that's like in the middle. And those are always the hardest ones to sell.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

So it's really hard. When you know, when the house was built 70 years ago and it's like literally falling apart. Yeah. Yeah, we know what it's worth. It's worth what the land is.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Or it's like someone, because that's what's interesting in the Hamptons market, too, which I do feel like has bring volumes down. That's why I'm like, it's not really a demand issue in the Hamptons, it's so more of a product issue, because the new construction's here. But you don't, you know, and then when everyone's looking at this beautiful homes like this, and then you have this other re you know, like if you go into this and you go into a home that was built, even like new development 10 years ago, sometimes very different. It's different, right? The floor plan is different. Like you talk about the modern influence, and that's one thing in the Hamptons, too, which I think maybe that is for the future. You'll see that continue to impact is like big open modern floor plans, like the transitional, right? Traditional you know, outside more feel. Once you get in, it's more of that modern openness, which you nailed with this house, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

And I think that's what people like. They like to see the glass. I mean, that's a little bit the struggle in psychoponic, is that they're um and some of these other um villages where you have to go in front of the Airbnb, they don't love some of this big glass that's going on. Yeah. Um, so there's a lot of nuances to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah. I mean, we talked about you good night's sleep. I mean, is there anything that keeps you up at night?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Well, having a three-year-old and a five-year-old can keep you up at night. But no, I mean, I think after um 20 years or you know, of doing this, um, I've sort of gotten to a point where like I really enjoy it. Um and um from a personal level, like I I don't really um I don't want to take on anything that is uh going to give me financial stress. Um and um I kind of value a good night.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

You are a pretty chill guy. I think you got you like maybe that's just because you just got it down and think a little bit too. Like I think you really do have like a calmness about you, which is cool to deal with as a other side of things, you know. But it's great for having you on, Michael. I guess like before I let you go too, I mean like we're is there anything like new areas of the Hamptons or new things you think is gonna like develop, or you think we're kind of like everything's kind of pretty much expensive pretty much discovered out here.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

No, I I I I don't, you know, I I like to say I'm kind of an expert from watermill over to uh emigantis. I don't know like every single nook and cranny that like you probably know. Yeah. Um you can't help but think like South of the Highway stuff is can just gonna continue. It's like the Upper East Side. It's just gonna have that. It's always gonna be there. People want to be south, you know, there's always gonna be a democracy that just is not gonna go north. They want to be south, they want to have access to the beach and not have to you know cross the highway. So I I think that it's that's like super prime. But then again, like you go into like some of the Bridgehampton North areas, like you know, from um 27 up to Scuttle, you know, the butter of the Mitchell's.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

The Lumber's north, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah. I mean, those are sort of like at another level of a typical north of the highway. I don't think they're at the south of the highway levels, but they're they're there. It still has that very farm field um view. Uh but you know, some of these new constructions you see going up in the woods, deep in the woods, up north, um, they're asking big numbers. They'll be curious to see if uh Yeah, it's been curious to see where the absorption comes, man.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

So, Michael, so great having you on. Thank you. Thank you so much, man. So thank you.