Two Peaks in a Pod

Snooze to Conceive: Fertility Docs on Sleep's Secret Power

• Beverly Reed • Season 3 • Episode 10

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Dr. Amber Klimczak and Dr. Beverly Reed discuss how they were personally going very wrong with their sleep regimens. They discus how sleep is important for fertility. They discuss how to track sleep quality and the top ways to improve your sleep so you can have optimal health and fertility.

Watch this (Season 3, Episode 10) on Youtube or listen on your favorite podcast platform to Two Peaks in a Pod.

https://www.youtube.com/@peakfertility

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-peaks-in-a-pod/id1694248202

Links are in @drhappyeggs IG bio.

Hi, I am Dr. Beverly Reed. And I'm Dr. Amber k Clack. And we are two peaks. Two peaks in a pods in a pod. Welcome back everybody. Dr. KI wanted to talk with you about a celebrity we've actually talked about before. Okay, good. Have I heard of this person? You have. And you know what? You're probably like them again.'cause I love the Kardashians. It's okay. I know at at least they're famous enough that I can definitely say know. I know they take a lot of heat, but I think it is always. Funny, we've talked about this before too. Um, in our electronic medical record, if we're trying to just test out a new feature or something like that, you don't wanna test that out on a real patient's record. So we will create fake patients in the system, and our fake patients are always. Kardashians. And so it is always funny'cause when we have somebody new that we've hired and they're looking in our electronic medical record, they see all the Kardashians, you know, they think, we see all of them. Chloe, Kim, Courtney, they say, wow. Um, and then we have to break it to them. No, this is. These are just pretend patients. One day they'll be our patient day, they may reach out and then it'll be very confusing. That's right. But I feel like they're kind of aging out of reproductive age, so we might get their kids. Maybe that's true. Um, but anyways, on the most recent season of keeping up with the Kardashians on Hulu. One of the kind of fights they get into is we've got Courtney Kardashian. She's one of the older sisters for the Kardashians. She's kind of a little bit of a No Itall. Okay. Oh, she is? Yeah. I know his daughter. Her. Okay. Yeah. Oh, wait, Courtney. Okay. Yeah. Courtney. Yeah. Courtney. Yeah. She's a little one. Yeah, she's little, but she's one of the older ones. Right. Okay. Got it. And that kind of drives her sisters crazy, right? Ah, because she's always got advice to give. Mm-hmm. But sometimes they didn't ask for advice. Right. And I think we all know people like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately it might be me too. And so Courtney's talking to Chloe now. Chloe's like the laid back really cool one. Okay. Ah, okay. Okay. And I guess Courtney says, you know. Kids really shouldn't have TVs in their room and they really shouldn't have screen time before they go to bed. It can really affect their sleep. And Chloe's like, well, good for you. Like, and, but Chloe feels judged by her saying this.'cause she is like, why are you telling me this? Like, because she lets her kids watch tv. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if she does or doesn't. Yeah. But it does, I think. Maybe yes, that might be the case. Targeting her specifically. Yeah. But even Chloe was kind of like, okay, but your kids have a TV in their room. So I mean, I don't, you know, Courtney didn't really comment on that, so I don't know. Um, but I have to say Courtney is kind of right. Like I understand Chloe's part of like, Hey, like, don't be so judgy, like, do whatever you want, but, mm-hmm. Like, why are you saying these things kind of. Almost calling me out. Right. Um, but I do have to say maybe Courtney's just trying to give good advice because I do think that's probably true. Kids probably shoulda have screens in their room and they probably do need to limit their screen time. And so I thought it kind of just opened up this whole topic that we can talk about, which is sleep. Mm. Because I do think sleep is really important. And more importantly, it leads back to our main topic, fertility. Right? Yeah, absolutely. By the way, I have a beef with ai. Oh, because I did ask ai.'cause apparently they say you can ask AI different questions, right? Mm-hmm. So I asked ai, what do you think of our podcast? Oh no. And they had actually said good things. It said, oh, the podcast has good ratings and. You're not really Joe Rogan yet, but it does a really good job and it's surprisingly popular given the dry subject of fertility. I'm like, how could they say that? The of fertility. What? Fertility is a hot topic. Rude, right? Yeah, I know. I'm so offended by by ai. So we are here to make fertility. Exciting guys. So funny. But it's so funny to me because you and I are just fast. I mean we, that's all we talk about is fertility. Even off the podcast, you know, we're always so excited to share things with each other, so I guess it was just kind of a good reminder that not everybody is as interested in fertility as we are. Yeah. You should probably stop listening now if you think fertility subject. That's right. Yes, yes, yes. Unless you like to hear about sleep. Yeah. Okay. So I have some interesting questions for you about sleep. Okay. So first of all, you know how I love to be productive and efficient and all the rest of it, right? Could you imagine if we didn't have to sleep? Yeah, it'd be amazing. I mean, I would have, we get everything done eight extra hours every single day to be able to get all those things on my to-do list done. Yeah. Could you even imagine, I think there's some famous people in history that didn't really sleep much. Right? Really? Yeah. Okay. I don't, I don't, maybe we'd have to chat gt this. That's right. I think there were some, like it didn't. Time sleep in odd intervals and stuff. I've heard some of these, these people that, okay, yeah. Did scientific research. They would sleep in very limited intervals. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it would be so nice if we didn't have to sleep, but we have to sleep. We know that. Because here's the next question. What is more important food or sleep? In other words, what could you live longer without? Is this like a good quiz question for me? Yeah. Um, I mean, you, I think you can definitely go longer without food because as long as you're having water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Which is kind of crazy if you think about it, because we don't really give sleep enough credit. Yeah. I mean, but you will. Sleep. It's actually like you will sleep well, but in animals they test it out. If the animals don't sleep, they die. Yeah. But you eventually humans will sleep. I mean, that's right. How are you? They go crazy. I guess they go crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's not really ethical to like fully prove it out, but, but yeah, they say, gosh, it. Essential to our existence, and I'm like, gosh, I really think I've underappreciated how important sleep is. Yeah, I can definitely say that I've run this experiment recently and you do go crazy without sleep. Okay. Well, this is what I wanted to ask you about because as I'm kind of becoming obsessed mm-hmm. With sleep lately. Mm-hmm. I wanted to know more about your. Sleep habits because I do think we should, you know, tell the audience, gosh, you have a new baby at home. Right? Yeah. And from what I hear, it's been a while for me. It could be hard to sleep when you have a new baby at home, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely don't get great sleep right now. Okay. Um, you have a disrupted sleep pattern when you have a new baby. Mm-hmm. Um, I think it's just chronic sleep deprivation. You get a little bit more use. To it. Mm-hmm. But certainly I don't sleep much. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. When I do sleep, it's in, you know, very limited segments. Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. But I remember even before you had your baby mm-hmm. I would sometimes call you, you do go to bed really early. Mm-hmm. Which I think is good. Yes. But just'cause you're in bed doesn't mean you're sleeping. Right. Because I think you're in bed with a lot of people, right? Yes. Yes. I hope some of our listeners could relate to nighttime visitors. Um. I'm a bit of a sucker and my children will come get in bed with us. Okay. And, um, despite my husband trying to kick them back out, they just keep returning. And as your family grows, I mean, I can just picture poor Steven. It's not like he's a tiny guy. Oh, no. Does he have any, his face in the back? No. And he's not allowed to use up. Any more than his half of bed, even though he's like three times my size. And we have a giant golden retriever that sits in the bed with us. Oh, no, the dog is in there too. We, we break all the rules, like all the, we have a dog. We have two kids. Yeah, we have a baby. Like all the things you're not supposed to do. Yes. Okay. Well, I would like you to consider tracking your sleep, and maybe Steven should too, because I would just be interested to kind of see what happened because. Here's the thing. I actually started tracking my sleep, but you know what? I didn't think I had any sleep problems. My kids are all older. My husband and I had a sleep divorce for you guys who dunno what that is, I'll explain it to you. So my husband gets up. Super early. I don't even know how early, probably like 5:00 AM or something. And I'm the late person at work, so I don't have to get up that early. But when we share a bed, then of course if he's up, that wakes me up. Mm-hmm. Um, also because he gets up so early, he goes to bed earlier. Mm. Right? Mm-hmm. So when we'd be in bed together, here I am like trying to watch TV or whatever, and like looking at me and I'm like eating an apple crunching away. And he's just like, oh my gosh. Like, you're so annoying. The Kardashians are blaring. Yes, exactly. I've gotta watch my Kardashians. Right? And so we had a sleep divorce, so he sleeps in the guest room and then I get the whole bed to myself. No kids, no dogs, no husbands. So I can literally be like, where do the Cady sleep? The Cies, they have like their own little sleeping place too. They're not allowed out and about'cause they get into trouble. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and. So I thought I slept great. I also was try to be very thoughtful about when I'm getting into bed and everything, and I thought I was getting a solid eight hours every night, which is great. Yeah. However. I bought one of those health rings. It's on my finger. I won't use brand names. There's lots of different brand names of these different health rings. And really the purpose that I was getting it for is I just thought it'd be interesting to track my cycle and, and, um, just, you know, because I'm a fertility doctor, I wanna say, do these things work? Yeah. You know, is it accurate? And I also want to track my activity, my steps every day. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to lose weight and all these things and, but it does track your sleep for you. And I'm like, oh, okay. Let's see. How much sleep did I get? And I was actually shocked because on average I was getting about. Six hours and 20 minutes of sleep every night. And I was like, well, that's not adding up. Right. And so it actually breaks it down for you, kind of how long it took you to fall asleep and all your different stages of sleep and how much you woke up and all the rest of it. And ultimately it would vary day by day. But I wasn't always getting enough deep sleep and or REM sleep. And I was very, I'm a restless sleeper. Mm. Said. I, I'm very restless. I'm like moving around, getting up all the time and I'm like, oh. Interesting. And I thought it was helpful because I'm like, well, gosh, I wouldn't have even known that there's a problem, and, and now I do. And so I'm like, Hmm, what can I do to try to improve this and make this better? Now I trained a long time ago. I was in medical school over 20 years ago, and really the sleep tips that I learned back then are really the same sleep tips that we have now. But I kind of, sometimes I do this, I get a little arrogant and I think it doesn't apply to me. I agree. Yeah, we know what we're supposed to do. Right? You just don't always apply it to yourself. I've always known the right things to do, but I kind of thought, well, I don't have trouble sleeping, so I don't need to follow those rules. I mean, the biggest mistake we make all the time, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so my little app would tell me, oh, try doing these things. Try doing these things. And the last two nights I've gotten an A on sleeping. Wow. What did you do differently? Well, first I will just, I wanna say back in the beginning, my sleep scores, I was getting C's, and, you know, when we're physicians, we are not used to getting c's. Like, I was like, what a C And there was one day I even got a D Oh gosh. Um, and so I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like taking it personally. Right. Um, but the last two nights I've gotten A's, and I've really been fo following all these different rules and so we're gonna talk about all the different tips, but before we get to that, to me it was this. Sleep awakening about how important sleep would be and thinking about my patients, because when I look at data for fertility, we know it's pretty clear sleep and fertility are related. Mm-hmm. And I think you've done some homework for us, right? Yeah. Can you tell us more about what that relationship looks like? Yeah, absolutely. I think most people can appreciate that you're. Sleep or poor sleep is gonna impact your fertility, right? Yeah. I think everyone kind of thinks about it, but they don't really know how that happens or you know what by what mechanism. So there's definitely some studies out there that have looked at this, and I would say the first thing that overall they just looked at with a lot of the study, there's kind of three different studies out there that looked at this particular thing is short sleep duration and the impact on fertility. So if you're sleeping less than or equal to. Seven hours a night. That was considered short sleep. Yeah, that was me. I mean that to me, like seven hours, that's like, wow, that's really good. You would try to get to seven hours. Right? Yeah. That's really good. So I would say there's probably a lot of people out there that would meet that criteria. Mm-hmm. Um, and this did have a negative impact on fertility actually for both males and female. Okay, so we talked about a lot of female fertility on here, but for males as well. Um, and then, you know, when they looked more into this at what were their hypotheses and what are some other studies that would find the link to why the shorter, um, sleep duration can affect your fertility? It really links back to a lot of the ways, um, your hormones are regulated. So circadian rhythms, right? A circadian rhythm is just this natural cycle that your body's on all the time. Are actually, um, ways to control your hormones basically. So it's very related and there are several hormones that are managed through circadian rhythms. Um, TSH, which is your thyroid hormone, LH testosterone release. So a lot of these hormones that we know are very related to female and male fertility are regulated through your circadian rhythm. And so when you have disruptions in your circadian rhythm, it's gonna fluctuate these hormone levels. Um, so you can imagine. Lh for example, everyone knows about lh'cause that's the hormone that you test when you're trying to figure out if you're ovulating. What they found is you can have disruptions in ovulation. They would actually have women who would, um, they would force them to have sleep, basically interrupted. Sleep mm-hmm. During their follicular phase and they found that they would interrupt ovulation during those cycles. Mm-hmm. If you don't ovulate, you're gonna lead to your regular cycles. That's kind of a sign of that. So not ovulating obviously is gonna affect your fertility as well. They also found, um, a lot of impact on your thyroid hormone and TSH, um, and your TSH level will go up if you get disrupted sleep or short, sharp sleep duration. And we know that your thyroid is really. And help you, you to have regular cycles and even can impact miscarriage later down the road during pregnancy. So there's a lot of hypotheses out there, how this is happening. Yeah, absolutely. And um, one thing that was interesting is I saw a study that talked about growth hormone. Mm. And. You know, a lot of times when we have women who are either older or maybe they have tried, um, IVF treatment before and it hasn't worked. One of the adjuncts sometimes we consider adding onto an IVF cycle is growth hormone because we know our growth hormone levels can go down with age. But we know growth hormone is really important to stimulate the granulosis cells, the cells that nourish the eggs, and to really help them grow. And what I found was really interesting is it's during the deeper stages of our sleep. That is when we are making the most growth hormone every 24 hour period. And I thought, oh my gosh, how many of my patients may be missing out on a great opportunity for. Free growth hormone, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Our own body can make it, um, because growth hormone's expensive. Yeah. And not covered by insurance. Yeah. Right. Um, and so I'm like, gosh, that's just another angle to really maybe even measure yourself and look to say, am I getting enough deep? Sleep. Um, and if not, can I make improvement on it, which could ultimately potentially help egg quality and, and maybe egg number as well. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I do think it's hard because a lot of our patients are in a circumstance similar to us now. Fertility schedules are a bit easier than OB GYN schedules. Mm-hmm. But. You and I long ago used to be in residency mm-hmm. Delivering babies and everything, and babies like to come in the middle of the night. Yeah. And, and all the rest of it. Um, you know, I, I think it's a challenging position, right? Because if you're in a position where your sleep schedule is changing frequently, um. And you don't have control of it, that can create stress. Right? And that's not the point of us to be talking about it, right? Mm-hmm. We're not trying to stress stress you out, um, but rather we're saying what are the things you do have control of and how can you modify those things to make it better for you? Now if you have the option to control your schedule, I think that would be great. But we do recognize that's just not a luxury that a lot of us have. Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm. I was, um, telling Dr. Reed earlier that I had a patient today. He works the night shift. Yeah. And I said, how long have you been doing that? About a year. Is there any chance you can switch off of it? No, there's not. Yeah. So I think it's really hard and the night shift workers, especially if you're out there listening, that is a really big impact on your health. Yeah. And so we try and just mitigate that as much as we can when we give you our recommendations. Yeah. And maybe it's just a good time to say thank you to all the night shift workers. Too, right? Without you guys, we wouldn't have people to staff the hospitals and staff, you know, police departments and fire departments and all these things. So we do need night workers. Um, but maybe we, maybe they deserve more gratitude for really kind of what they're contributing in terms of, um, sleep deficits. They may. So, okay, so let's kind of talk about some of the sleep tips then. That, again, I probably learned long ago, but just, um, was not really doing myself. And I will say maybe some things I was pretty good at is being consistent. So, because as a fertility doctor we have a pretty even schedule, I would say I was consistent. I was getting into my bed at the same time every night. Mm-hmm. Do you feel like you're pretty consistent? Yeah. Yeah. I, I do, I try and get in bed at the same time, but I might be getting, yeah. In and out bed after that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think this is actually really important because even if you're a shift worker at nighttime Right. You can still be consistent. Mm-hmm. Right? And so one of the key details about consistency is also weekends. Mm-hmm. Right? Or your off days. Same thing. A lot of us, maybe we wake up early to go to work Monday through Friday, but then on the weekends we like to sleep in, go to bed later. Mm-hmm. That's actually one of the worst. Yeah. Sleep hygiene right. Aspects that you can do. Yeah. Um,'cause I mean that's two days outta the week. Yeah. That's a pretty significant portion. So sleep experts always tell you that you should have the same awakening time. Mm-hmm. And the same time going to bed every single day, no matter if it's Saturday or Sunday. Yes, yes. And then the next one is, it's nice to have a routine because it's kind of signaling to your body sleep is coming. And I feel like I'm pretty good about that too. I tend to do the same thing as I'm sort of getting ready for bed. Same. And what about you? Are you good with routine? Huge creature of habit. Yeah. Yes. Like mm-hmm. Cannot sleep without my retainers. Yes. Yes. Retainer. Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. And you know me with, I got a floss, gotta brush my teeth. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Gotta put my wrinkle cream on. Yeah. I, I cut my routine down. Okay. Um, okay. What about temperature? Um, this is actually a source of contention between Craig and I. He loves it cold. I like it hot. Do you and Steven agree on temperature? Um, I actually do like it cold when we sleep and it's. Supposed to be cold. Right? The best sleep apparently is pretty cold. I've seen some of the studies and we don't keep it that cold. Yeah. Um, but yeah, some of the studies show that it's 66 degrees Fahrenheit, like pretty low temperatures. Yeah. Yeah. I like way higher. And I, it actually used to be worse when I was younger. Like when I was thinner, I think I just had less fat and I mean, I used to like to keep the AC on like 82. Like gosh, crazy. So cold all the time. Um, but now as I have more of a cushion layer to keep me warm, it's better. Um, but, but even so, like I would say maybe, you know, 74 would be my ideal. I don't know, somewhere around there. But my husband cannot wait for me to go to menopause.'cause you know, when you go through menopause, you get those hot flashes and you want the AC blasting, so he's going to be very excited for that. Have you seen some of the studies about wearing. Socks at night. I just saw that the other day. But what, what's the deal with that? Why? Why do socks happen? Okay. I don't know where these are coming from, so I haven't really Haven't checked the Yeah. You know, yeah. The sources for these studies, but yeah, apparently do like fall asleep and stay asleep longer when you're wearing. Socks. Mm-hmm. And to stay, like, to regulate your body temperature. I, well, I do, I sleep in socks. Do you? I hate'em. I always, you, oh, I'll go to bed with socks, but I take them off. Okay. I'll probably get a bed sleep in the middle of the night for, yeah. I take them off. Yeah. Okay. Yes. My feet always get cold at night, so I, I do love my socks. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, okay. Darkness, and this is so helpful right now'cause we just hit our daylight savings. Right. It's. Been very dark and that is really helpful. Now this is interesting'cause I have a patient who is a veterinarian and she was telling me for horses, the circadian rhythm of horses is so, um, so important for fertility, lightness versus darkness. And so they would have certain times where they'd put these goggles on the horses to show them extreme light when they're trying to target a certain. Stage of fertility and, and all the rest of it. So I think that's interesting. But yeah, for sleep, don't you, don't you sleep so much better when it's dark. Oh, yes. Yeah. And it's so much easier to get the kids to go to bed. Yeah. Get the blackout curtains and turn everything off. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, that's, I think everybody can agree on that. But again, it's harder for you're shift worker. I've definitely had those times where I was working nights, back when I was delivering babies, and when you've got the sun shining right down on you, it's, it is a lot harder to sleep. Very hard. Mm-hmm. Um, okay. Then quiet. It needs to be quiet right now. This must be really hard for you, right? Oh, can you sleep? Even if it's noisy? I don't like, too quiet. We sleep with a sound machine all over our house. Every room in our house has a sound machine. Really? Oh my gosh. I'm a nut about sound machines. I didn't know this. Okay. I'm, I've really gotten into sound machines too, because here's what was happening to me before I would go to sleep. Mm-hmm. And then in the morning, everybody else is waking up, but I wanna keep sleeping, right? Mm-hmm. And the dogs wake me up, right? They hear everybody moving around. So then they start barking. Hey guys, come let us out. Like we're excited. And then the kids are fighting, it's your turn to take the dogs out, it's your turn, and like all the rest of it. And then they wake me up and I'm like, great. Like I'm up for no reason. Um, and so I didn't realize this, but your phone is a sound machine. Mm-hmm. So I have it memorized now, if you go to. Settings, accessibility, audio, video, background noise. You turn it on and you can pick from all your different background noises. So what's your favorite background noise To fall asleep? Hey, wait, I have some, I have some sad news. For what? No. Tell me because I'm, because I'm a sleep machine expert. Oh. Oh no. Tell it to me straight. Tell it to me straight. Doctor, you were talking about the brown noise, pink noise, all that. Yeah, well, it's, they have like bright and dark and mixed and ocean and rain and fire and, okay. Yeah. Okay, so first of all, that will mess up your iPhone speaker. Oh yes. So if you use the sound machine on your iPhone, be prepared that your speaker may get damaged. Oh, no. Okay. Because it's on for like eight hours. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so we've, we've definitely messed you've been through phones because we used to do, when we travel, like we would do that. And so then if you're like doing it. We're like, may, maybe on a week long, whatever. Okay. So yeah. Can you imagine all these people leaving me reviews? Yeah. Dr. Reed messed up my iPhone and I'm glad. Listen to Dr. K here. She's So Don't jack up your iPhone Okay. With a sound machine. Okay. And there are studies that show it needs to be. Eight feet away from you. I sleep with my phone right next to my bed. Yeah. Because I use it for an alarm clock. Yeah. Um, and so there's actually some studies to show it can affect your hearing over time. Oh my goodness. Um, I'm really picky about my hearing'cause I do have family members with your boss. Yes. So I try and preserve that, especially for your kids too. If you have babies or kids, make sure you put the sound machine with the white noise at least eight feet away. Okay, great. Um, the good thing is about the. Tried and true sound machines. Yeah. Especially those, those ones for kids, they have settings to protect them. Mm. So they don't get too high on the decibel levels. Mm-hmm. Um, so they're more, you know, kind of consistent with it. Yeah. So I would be careful about those two things. These are great tips. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad we talked about this. You saved my ears. You saved my iPhone. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But you didn't tell me what your favorite noise is. Oh, okay. But I used the original sound machine. There's two settings. What's the, okay, do you know you've never seen The Little Dome? It's called the Dome Original Sound Machine. Oh, mm-hmm. It looks, it looks really old school. It's like a little, it's like a little tan dome. Okay. And so you put it on the floor and there's only two settings, high and low. And I use the low setting. Oh, okay. So like a. Okay. It's totally white noise. Okay. I don't like rain. I don't like crickets. Yeah. I don't like the O like ocean. Yeah. No, I didn't see white noise. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it would like rain and I was like hearing this hissing sound. Yeah. And I was like, is it a snake? I don't know. It's giving me anxiety as I fall. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. But the other thing that I saw that people do sometimes is earplugs. Have you ever done earplugs? I used to when I was really crazy in med school. Okay. But how does that work? Because I was afraid if I put earplugs in, I wouldn't hear my alarm. Well, I think if you're at the level that you're putting ear plugs in, yeah, you're so anxious that you hear your alarm. That's my experience with my sleep anxiety. Okay, so you would put your headphones in? Yeah. Set your alarm and it would always wake you up? Yeah. You could hear the alarm still. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. And then I have heard some people are doing headphones, but don't think that would work if you're supposed to be eight. Yeah. Eight feet away I do probably aren't good. I wouldn't do again, not like an EN ent. Yeah. But I think that would probably be dangerous for you hearing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Alright, so the next one's probably one of the hardest ones for me. And this is what Courtney told us. Mm-hmm. Courtney Kardashian. Mm-hmm. No screens before you go to bed. Mm-hmm. Okay. It's hard. So some people suggest one to two hours before you go to bed. No screens. And that's hard because I will say at nighttime, sometimes I do feel like a little anxious. And when I have something in the background to keep my mind off of all my crazy anxious thoughts, then it helps totally. It like distracts me, right? Yeah. And so I love to fall asleep to the tv, which we've talked about. Friends, like I'll put it. Friends episode on Yes. Something I've seen before that I know. I don't need to watch the whole thing. Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, interestingly, I would never watch like a new episode of Kardashians or something because it's like, I need to pay attention. Yes. Right? Yes. Even like a good movie, it'll keep me up. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um. And also I love to be on my phone, but sometimes at the same time, watch an old episode of Friends, be on my phone scrolling two screens. Yes, that's right. And then just pass out. Right? Yeah. And think I'm getting the happiest sleep ever. Mm-hmm. That's not good. Mm-hmm. So what grade did you get when you would do this? So bad. It was very low and I didn't know because I was sleeping all night, but I wasn't hitting the, the, uh, deep sleep levels. Interesting. Yeah. Now, um, what I did is, I mean, two hours of screens, that seems extreme, so I was like, let me start off with one hour of no screens. Okay. Yeah. And so that seems to be enough. To have fixed the problem. Now I've been doing multiple things, you know, the, the white noise uhhuh, the no screens and everything, but now I'm getting A's and so it, it, I think it just shocked me to see you can actually see a difference when you do it versus when you don't do it. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. And um, they say for people who aren't willing to give up their screens, you can do blue light blockers. Ah, these are special glasses you can wear. They say it's better just not to have the screen, but if you just can't do it. Then you can do blue light blockers instead. Um, I, I feel like I would fall asleep with them. Um, so instead of screens, I've been having to go old school and read like a real book. Yeah. Which is like, you know, I mean, I do like to read, but I'm usually reading on my phone. Right. Yeah. So we had to go to Barnes and Nobles and it was really cute. My 11-year-old said this is his happy place is Barnes and Nobles. I do love Barnes Noble. You do? Okay. Same. Yeah. Yeah. And so I picked out some books and funny enough, my first book I'm reading is about sleep. Right. The history of sleep. That sounds boring enough to put you to sleep. Exactly right. You don't wanna get into like a murder suspense novel. Yeah. And then you can't go to bed, right? Yeah. So it's been kind of perfect. Um, and so it's good. Like I just read and then I, I dove off and yeah. I have been meaning to look this up, but like, how did the Kendall's compare? Because I, oh, yes. I switched to a Kendall, Steven said, okay. I, I read a lot of smut, which is embarrassing to admit on our podcast, but Steven said I couldn't order any more books because you go through them really fast. He had to cut you off. Well, there's just stacks of them because I mean, you read them in like three days. Wow. It's like really quick. Yeah. Thing I like fall asleep to, yeah. So he switched me to a kind. People does have a little bit of backlight to it. It does. Yeah. I mean, I definitely. Seen the difference. It's much dimmer and, and all the rest of it when you compare. So I don't know. That's a good question. We should look into that because honestly it is kind of hard to like hold this big book. I'm like, I'm not trying to be lazy, but I'm just like, it was a lot easier on a screen. So I would love to do a Ken. Um, but I think what's nice if you do one of these rings, I'm not trying to sell these or anything. People, I, I get no money for this, but you can test things out, right? Yeah. See. So you could always be like, oh, well if I do a Kendall, how was my sleep? Mm-hmm. And then if it wasn't good, then, you know, obviously switch to something else. But, you know, the other thing that I think is helpful when you mention like, yeah, listening to some or watching a show that you've seen a million times. Mm-hmm. I also will put my face mask on and just listen to a friend's episode. I've seen them so many times that it's like, it's like you can imagine it. Yeah. I'm not kidding. It's like that relaxed. So I like that. That's a good idea too. I feel like if you get one of these rings, I need you to do some experiments for me. Yeah. And kind of test that out. I, I sleep with an eye mask, so. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, do, can you do an audio book or something? Mm-hmm. That, you know, that might be a little easier too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, alright. I'm guilty of the next one, which is diet. Mm-hmm. Okay. And there are several things to talk about with diet and I had actually always shared with you before, I do have to give myself what they call a caffeine curfew. So I'm allowed to have caffeine. Um, but they really say I'm allowed, I'm allowed, but, but I am not allowed after about 2:00 PM Yeah. If I have caffeine past 2:00 PM I will be up all night. Mm-hmm. How are you with caffeine? Are you sensitive to it? Yeah, I'm extremely sensitive to caffeine. Okay. I actually, a lot of times will just. Do like a morning and noon. Yeah. Caffeine. And then that's it. That's it. So you do, mm-hmm. You have a curfew for yourself too? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I feel like that's a pretty obvious one, but it is kind of odd.'cause I remember, I have a family member, I won't say who it is, but he bragged to me, he said, well, I can drink three cups of coffee and go right to bed. And I was. Really, I'm like, that just seems bananas. But then like he didn't really mention, well, he takes a bunch of sleeping pills every night. So it's kind of like, well, I do know people like that. I know. I mean, my husband can drink like a cappuccino and go to sleep, so Really? Yeah. I dunno how people do that. I kind of think it's. Again, this is kind of like an aging thing. Yeah. I feel like as I've gotten older, I'm more sensitive to caffeine, sleep, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Young people can just like pass out. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. Another one to talk about is alcohol. Mm. And, um, uh, if you guys follow us, you know, I don't drink any alcohol anymore because I feel based on data, it is very bad for you. It causes. So many different types of cancer, but it's also disruptive to your sleep. And I feel like it's kind of tricky to figure that out because when I used to drink alcohol, it makes me sound like I was an alcoholic. I wasn't, but, but when I used to drink alcohol, I loved like a nice glass of wine and you feel so relaxed, you just kind of fall asleep. Like it makes you feel like it's good for your sleep, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it's not right. No, no. And I have the opposite problem again. Oh. And this is something, okay. That has happened to me as I've gotten older. Ah, okay. Uhhuh. And it's really depressing. Yeah. I think because I love to drink. Yes. I still enjoy the occasional glass of wine with my girlfriends. Yeah. Like that to me is a stress reliever. Yeah. That to me is how I socialize with people. Yeah. Like we like to go out dinner and have drinks. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know that if I have mm-hmm. A glass of wine, especially like a late night glass of wine. Yeah. Then I will be up heart pounding in the middle of the night. Yes. Like, just, I don't know what it is. Yeah. I never used to have that when I was younger. Yes. Wine is so bad. Red wine especially. Yeah. I would say maybe other type of alcohol's not as bad, but Yes. And what's interesting is when you look at the sleep studies on alcohol, yes. Alcohol can help you fall asleep. Mm-hmm. But you actually get worse quality sleep than if you had not had alcohol. And a lot of people who drink and they don't realize this, they get night awakenings. Mm-hmm. They're like, I wake up in the middle of the night and I can't go back to sleep. Mm-hmm. And they don't know why they don't make that connection. But because of that, if you can, if you ask me, I would say no alcohol. If you asked Dr. Cape maybe limit alcohol or earlier, I would say earlier in the day, enjoy day, drinking day, day, I would recommend day drinking. We've really adjusted our drinking schedule. Okay, so then besides those two things, caffeine and alcohol, here's another one that I'm guilty of. Spicy food. Oh, I love spicy food. Okay, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I tend to eat later at night because I get off work later and. But apparently if you eat spicy food close to bedtime, then you're gonna get lower sleep quality. Yeah. Um, and so I love like Indian food, Mexican food, like all these things. And I'm like, okay, if I'm going to eat those things, I need to do it earlier in the day. Indian food right before bed sounds like a bad, like you should, I already know these things. Right. Exactly. And then this part kind of makes me feel like a toddler. Uh, so, okay. At night I love ice water. I just drink all night long. This is one of the sweet things that my husband does for me is every night before that he brings me my fresh Stanley filled with ice and water. And that is sweet. I know. It's so sweet. Um, because he knows if I don't, I'll text him waiting. I know, but he's so nice. Um, and especially since you sleep, divorce time. I know. That's so he brings you things in your room. Well, he likes to visit for other reasons too. Um, but, but anyways, um, I also take my vitamins right before I go to bed. Like I have all my vitamins on my nightstand and everything. So I take my vitamins and I drink a ton of water.'cause I'm like, I'm being so healthy. Right. Well, no, then I have to pee all night long and this has always been normal for me. I probably get up like four times a night to pee, but like that's just normal for me. Mm-hmm. But then of course you read like, Hey, why don't you just fluid restrict yourself like a toddler. Yeah. Right. And so now two hours before I go to bed, I fluid restrict myself, which is kind of hard for me to do, but it's really helped a lot. I believe it. Yeah.'cause I'm not getting up all the time. Yes. And I agree and that. Mm-hmm. Actually, that's I think another form of anxiety. Mm-hmm. Especially for me is I feel like I have to go to the restroom in the middle of the night. Yes. And like I'll be thinking about something and I get up and go a bunch. Yes. If you're worried about something. So I think it does help to not drink fluids. Yes. Yes. Okay. Then another one that we all know we should be doing exercise. Mm-hmm. Exercise helps your sleep. Yeah. But I guess similar to all these things, you've gotta do it earlier in the day. You don't wanna exercise within three hours of falling asleep because then you're gonna be so revved up that it's gonna be hard for you to sleep. Hmm. So exercise, but earlier in the day, and that'll help you get better quality sleep. That, I mean, that's hard for some people to do too, depending on when you go to bed. Me too. Yeah. I exercised once this week. I did, um, a bootcamp on Sunday. Good. So I'm like, you gotta start somewhere, right? Yeah. You do it when you can. Yes. Um, okay. And then what about stress? I mean, you kind of brought this, I mean, stress really affects our sleep. Right. But that one's so hard because it's not like I can just be like, Hey, can you stop being stressed? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, this is something that I've ex. Explore, I think a lot as I, um, have gotten more established, you know, in my career and I'm like, okay. Mm-hmm. I guess my life isn't gonna really change much now I, I have to figure out how to manage my stress. Yeah. It's not gonna get much better. Um, so I use a lot of the apps, like the meditation apps, and I'll do that before I go to bed. I think that's one way to kind of set your stress aside. Yeah. I, I, I don't know. For me, I've realized I'm probably not gonna be able to de-stress. Yeah. Like my stress is gonna be with me. Yeah. But. I try and set it aside before I go to bed. Yeah. So I do think those meditation apps are really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not great at meditating on my own. I don't know how people do that. I'm really impressed when they can do it. Yeah, yeah. But at least like listening to something, there's a ton of apps you can get stuff like on YouTube. Yeah. To help you just like listen and relax. And I think that can be, yeah, something doing stretching or yoga before bed Yeah. I think can really help as well. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I do really think about when I have stress and I am one of those people that I'm just always stressed. Even if I'm not stressed, I'll probably then get bored and be like, you find something, let me do some more things. Yeah. Which will then stress me out. Right? Yeah. Um, but I do think you can try to put a lot of logical thought words. Thought work and your stress to ask yourself, Hey, why am I having this stress? Is this something I can change? How can I change it? Right. There are things you can try to think about instead of just like spiraling, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The spiral's easy though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is very easy. Yes. And then naps. Okay. I don't think we really get a chance to take naps, so I feel like we can't really comment as much on naps, but Right. And I hate napping. Do you? Okay. You feel so. Disgusting. When you wake up from a nap, do you not, you're sounding like Courtney Kardashian Juy. No, she, no. I personally feel wrecked if I like, if there's like by chance on weekend where like I fall asleep on the couch. Yeah. And I wake up, I just feel. Yeah.'cause it feels like it's not enough, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, let's say there's like a piece of chocolate cake and you, you only get to take a bite and you just stare at the rest. Like, you're like, what was that about? Right. That's kind of what a nap is like to me. Like, I'm gonna go all in and Yeah. And you get the full thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. Well, I feel like we covered a lot. Hopefully that is helpful for all you guys. We hope that you get a really good night of sleep tonight. Yeah. Now that you have all these tips, and maybe you can start tracking your own sleep. See kind of where you're at at baseline and if you were able to make any improvement in how you felt afterwards. I'm really gonna, um, be looking at all these things a good thing. Maybe notice if your patients are wearing a ring. You can ask them about their sleep too. Yeah. They'll have that data for you. Um, but if you would be so kind, um, to where if you enjoyed our podcast or enjoyed um, seeing us on YouTube, if you could leave us a positive review, we would greatly appreciate it. Another place to leave us a review if you're one of our patients is our peak fertility website. We hope you have a great rest of your day. Have a good one. Thanks. Bye.