Going 0-10 as a new head coach is the ultimate nightmare scenario, but not unheard of. The old saying, “good jobs don’t come open,” has never been truer than today. But, new HC’s have to break in somewhere. Coach Spain joins us on the show to talk about living through that nightmare scenario, and coming out the other side with a 10-0 regular season.
To watch the video from this episode or others like it, check out the Youtube pages of Kenny and Daniel.
What did you find out you didn’t know?
How will you adjust moving forward?
What NOT to do as a Coach
Social Media
Going 0-10 as a new head coach is the ultimate nightmare scenario, but not unheard of. The old saying, “good jobs don’t come open,” has never been truer than today. But, new HC’s have to break in somewhere. Coach Spain joins us on the show to talk about living through that nightmare scenario, and coming out the other side with a 10-0 regular season.
To watch the video from this episode or others like it, check out the Youtube pages of Kenny and Daniel.
What did you find out you didn’t know?
How will you adjust moving forward?
What NOT to do as a Coach
Social Media
What's up coaches? This is the Coaching 1 0 1 podcast. I'm Daniel Chamberlain. Uh, once again, joined by Coach Kenny Simpson out of Arkansas. Uh, coach off season. Things are looking great. Um, I know that we're, we're getting to that weird point where there's all these sports and all this stuff going on and the kids are everywhere. I just scheduled my first like, JV baseball game, I mean, to go visit and watch kids because you gotta do something to get back in these kids' graces, right? They haven't seen you since football season ended. It's been super weird not being around my guys. So, uh, me and another assistant coach decided we're going to a JV ba baseball game, which may be the worst thing I ever go to. I don't Oh man. It'd be like baseball's already slow in high school and then you like take it down a notch. So it's either gonna be a home run derby or the pitching's gonna look great, and I don't know which way it's gonna be. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be fun, man. That's a, you know, we, we called it perfect Wednesday. We had the perfect storm this Wednesday. We had. Basketball just got knocked out, which I, I liked from go as far as I can go, you know, but we do like to get 'em back when we get 'em. So we had all the basketball guys back, we had, you know, every team's got those, I call 'em Clark, Kent and Superman. Like those two kids that are never there the same time. Like you got, like, the world will collide if both of 'em actually show up at school the same day. Those two kids were there today, basketball kids were there today. We had like 65 kids in the weight room, man. And it pump up the music and it was just a real energetic time. Those are the days. Those are the days you need to record your lift so you can pitch it to the school board, like, we gotta have another gym. a, I did a 15 second video, put it on Twitter. I'm sure I'm gonna hear about, we let our kids not wear shirts. I'm sure gonna hear these idiots get on there and talk about whatever, but, but those are the days because now I know it's coming. We have a soccer game tomorrow. We got baseball games coming up. You know, we got, you're not gonna have all 65 kids. again, probably until, you know, the end of, you know, the end of the summer. Don't tell your administration Right, that, you know, just, just, it's a selling point to get a better gym. Well, we're we actually, and then we perfect Wednesday for us.'cause this is the first time in my life I've talked to the basketball coach who's gonna give me the kids five days a week to spring break and bring his basketball kids over to lift with us. Good night. That's my favorite basketball coach I've ever met in my entire life. Like I, this guy is now my best friend and, uh, I think it's pretty cool. Yeah, that is pretty good. Well, we don't wanna leave our guest on the fringes for too long here. Um, we are joined tonight by Coach Logan, Spain outta Illinois. Uh, bumped into Coach Spain over at the Gun Tea Clinic at the National Clinic. The big one, you know, there in South side Arkansas. Um, and, you know, office of the social on Friday night, and which by the way, if you're a gun team member and you're not going to that, you're really missing out.'cause it was a lot of fun just to catch up. Um, maybe you take your own beverages, uh, I don't know, the river, the river will get you if you aren't careful, you know, uh, not necessarily in alcohol but the price. But, uh, you know, man, it was a great time to get to hang out, but Coach Beman, we're super glad you could join us. Um, I forgot to give you this little brief, so I'm just gonna tell you now. We're just gonna have you introduce yourself and kind of your, your, uh, lineage in football and how you got where you are. And we're gonna ask you to keep it under, you know, a minute because I've had some guys. Oh man, under a minute. That's, uh, that's gonna be tough. Well, yeah, first of all, appreciate you guys having me on. Good seeing you guys again. Uh, like you said, got to, this is my second year going down to the national clinic and, uh, got to, got to meet you this year as well, Daniel. And like you said, I got to hang out and get to know each other. Um, so I'm from a small town in, in southern Illinois, uh, Duco, Illinois. Born and raised here. Um, it's a, it's a football community. Definitely proud. Um, bring, brings the entire community together, brings the entire school together. Um, it's something that growing up as a kid here was, was really special. Um, a lot of success, a lot of tradition. And, you know, growing up, uh. Alabama referenced there. There's Bear Bryant and there's Nick Saban. But when you were growing up in Do Coin, there's Bob Carnes and Al Martin. Uh, like these are these just legendary guys as a kid growing up here wanting to, wanting to be a football player. Um, and I was blessed to be able to play for Coach Martin, uh, here for during my high school career and then started college and pretty well knew I wanted to go the education, uh, coaching route and Coach Martin's last year as head coach. I asked him if I could come on and just come learn. I didn't ask to coach 'cause I had no clue how to coach. Um, and they had a coaching staff that had been there for together for 30 years. Um, so I I just wanted to, yeah. Uh, which we'll get into that a little bit more later. Um. I just wanted to come in and learn from those guys. Um, someone that, he was a senior when I was a freshman, was gonna take over as head coach the following year. Um, we were actually next door neighbors in college for a little bit, somebody who's become a really good friend of mine and has given me a lot of opportunities to get to where I'm at in the coaching world. Um, so then he takes over his name's AJ Hill. Um, he takes over in year two as the head coach, and he's there for four years. And as I said, gave, he gave me my, my first real opportunity to coach. Um, I never played a down offense in my life. Uh, didn't really know. I, I think I only kind of had one skill in high school and that that was run and hit. Uh, I, I, outside of that, there wasn't much skill to me. Um. But our receiver's coach was, was leaving. He had taken a job up north and AJ just asked if I, I wanted to do it, and I said, uh, well, we'll figure it out. Um, so just kind of a little bit of responsibility of time starting out as receiver coach, then JV defensive coordinator, JV head coach. Um, so, so got some really good experience there while still learning from those guys. Like I said, like Coach Martin stayed on and coached freshman offensive line like that tells you how humble of a guy. We're talking about. A The head coach. he, he was the head coach for 25 years, multiple state championships and just wanted to stay and give back. Um, which is just amazing that goes to talk to his character. He just, he just wanted to help. Um, and again, which I know I'm going way over my minute here. I apologize. I, I get, I get, get, I talk about my duque history, um, you know. And kind of my, I tell people really my Mount Rushmore of coaches, what is all on that one? High school coaching staff, um, coach Martin, coach Shaw, coach Ellis, coach Gross. Those are four guys that were there for 30 years together. Um, that any one of those guys could have been a head coach, but they ran it together. Um, there was no ego, there was a lot of humbleness and just a group of guys working, working together, uh, doing what's best for the program and for the kids. Um, so then my buddy AJ left. He, he, uh, his wife was leaving to go to school to be a doctor. Uh, so her school kind of took her away. And at that point, I, at that point I kind of decided that I, I thought I wanted to be a head coach, um, and I decided I wanted to kind of go that route. Um, not knowing that at the time, I knew absolutely nothing. Um, in the, in the grand scheme of things, um, you know, young, young guy, I'm still young, 29, but, um, I was 24, 25 years old. Uh, had more of an ego than I should have thought. I knew a lot more than than I did and was just ready to take any head coaching job that I can get. Um, so actually our, our cross county rivals, um, their, their head coach was retiring and so I went over there to be their defensive coordinator, uh, for a year before taking over as head coach. And just a little bit, uh, I guess to set the scene, uh, the year that I go over as defensive coordinator, um, and great community, love the community. Um, I, I wouldn't necessarily say there's the same level of support, um, and importance. Um, but get over there and we have 23 kids in our program. Zero seniors, four juniors. So we don't play a varsity schedule. My first year over there, understandably so, not safe. Um, the following year, I, I take over as head coach again thinking we're gonna set the world on fire when we didn't even play a varsity schedule The year before, before, um, this, this was going on during Covid, um, we got the numbers up a little bit. I think we were around 52, 53. Um, had had some momentum going into the season, some big energy. And the Tuesday before our first game, positive Covid test, boom, they shut us down for two weeks. Uh, so, so first two, uh, coaching games in my career were, were forfeit losses. And then, um, the next seven were earned losses. And so my, my first season was, was oh and nine. Um. A lot of those seven losses on the field, were were 40 clocks. Um, you know, people, people talk about humble pie, and I'll tell you, I, I was eating an entire humble pie every week. Um, and it was, was the absolute best thing that could have happened to me. Uh, 'cause again, I, I was a young guy that thought I knew a lot more than I did. Um, and at that point there was really, there was two choices. Like I could continue to go down this road, um, and act like, like I knew a lot more than I did, or I could come to the realization that I didn't know anything and I had everything to learn. Um, and I cho chose option number two and just really opened my mind, opened my heart again, humbled me. Um. And actually ended up taking a position. I did my student teaching at a small town called Cesar Valier. And their, I decided to take in assistant coaching position with them. Um, they had a, it's a unique situation. They had co-head coaches, um, and both of them had a, had a few years left till they retired. So they were kind of gonna groom me for that position. Um, at that point I knew that I wanted to wait a few years to be a head coach again. Um, go in, learn, um, from, again, two guys that, that are great coaches, both. John Shadowings was the head coach there for a long time, over a hundred wins. And Coach Mike Rud is another legendary hall of famer in southern Illinois. Um, Al Martin, my head coach, has the most wins in southern Illinois history. Mike Rud has a second most wins. Um, so just, just getting to again, take a, take a step back and learn. Um, and then fast forward a year and my alma mater Duco, um, they, they ended up having a coaching opening and, um, it was something that I still didn't really feel like, again, this, this is a year removed for me, leaving a position as a head coach, um, really wanting to sit back and learn. And this position was open and kind of again, hometown, uh, dream job. I was like, man, this is kind of an exciting potential and thought about it and really just kind of not kind, I mean preyed on a lot and just was really tugging back and forth. I was very happy at Cesar where I was. The people there treated me great. I love my teaching position, I love my coaching position. Um, and. I had kind of thought I was just gonna stay assessor. And then two days before the position closed, I thought, you know what? This is my dream job. There's no telling when or if this is gonna come open again. Um, so what the heck? I'll, I'll throw my name in the hat, I'll, I'll apply for it and then get an interview. And obviously I'm in, in the position that I am now. I end up getting hired as, as the head coach at Duco and full circle, you know, the, the first thing I do. So get hired that night at school board meeting the next morning. First thing I do is I drive out to my old head coach's house coach Martin. Um, and this is a guy again, humble. Like if you sat at a wedding reception with him, you'd leave that night and have no clue that he even was a head, even was a football coach. Like, he wouldn't even discuss football with you unless you brought it up. Um. And I asked him, I just asked him for his advice and he, he said three things. He said, patience, discipline, and most importantly, love. Now, probably one of my biggest weaknesses is patience. Um, I'm not a patient person, but discipline and love. I was like, okay, that, that's something I can really get on board with. And that's what we've built our team on. That's what we built our culture on. Um, we talk about, I, you know, we say it in the parent meeting, two things promise we're gonna do is we're gonna discipline your kid. We're gonna love your kid. Um, try to tell, try to tell the boys at least once every day. I'm proud of you. I believe in you. I love you. Um, and I mean it, and we mean it. And it was just really an awesome, which we'll get into kind of our core values here in a little bit, I'm sure too. Um. But man, when, when you build a football program and a culture and a foundation on discipline and love it, it's amazing what happens. Um, you know, and we had a tremendous amount of success this year. We went 10 and one, and I, I believe kind of, I think the formula to really have success is you've gotta have a really good culture and then not what all coaches will admit, but you've gotta have really good talent. Um, that's saying you gotta have a good quarterback. you, you gotta have good talent. And we were blessed with both. Um, we, we had a tremendous amount of talent and we had amazing culture. And it, man, it was really fun to show up every day. And the kids felt the love, we felt the love, um, and discipline. I mean, there, there was a lot of discipline and making sure that we're doing things the right way. Um, but, but definitely a, a good first year and being able, being on both sides of the extreme, you know, going on and nine and, and 10 and one, um, is something that it, it's pretty, it's pretty neat. See on both sides of it. So I, I really wasn't worried about you going over a minute because our very first question tonight was going to be, how'd you get the job? And so you just answered, uh, your introduction went right in for, and, and also you haven't figured it out by now. And by reading the, the, the subject line, this is all about, um. Preparing yourself for that first job or, uh, maybe the first time back as a head coach. You know, really, I, I, you know, more planned that around the first time you're a head coach, uh, and you, we were joking ahead of time about you having an oh and nine and then a 10 and one season. You got both extremes. Um, and so it does a lot of times prove that it, and and Kenny said this on a podcast before going 10 and one doesn't make you the best coach in Illinois going in oh and nine did not make you the worst coach in Illinois, right? It's not a direct reflection of your ability to coach football. Sometimes you just are outmanned nine times straight, right? One, you talked about two losses were were covid. So, uh, you sometimes it happens. Um, one, one other thing I'll talk about, you said, uh, you kind of thought you knew it all and then maybe not, and that, you know, they talk, talk about the Dunning Kruger effect, and if you don't know what it is, Google it, but essentially. When you're new into an industry, a, a topic, a hobby, whatever it is, you usually take that very first piece of advice you get and that is the golden ticket. And that is the only thing you ever need to know. And that happens in football, right? So we are members of a team that runs zone and zone's all you ever need, and you don't need anything else. And why would anybody else waste their time with anything but zone? Because that's what we're gonna do. Um, and, and they, that's that first mountain. And you're standing on the mountain of, in this Dunning Kruger effect. You look up the image, it's pretty funny. And then you fall into the pit of despair 'cause you fall off that cliff and realize. Insert whatever your topic is. We're using football because that's what we're talking about. But it doesn't matter what you do, you quickly find out that it is so much deeper and you don't have a clue, you know, one very small way to do it. Uh, and there's so much more to learn. And then you start that trek up the, the real hill, right? And you gotta go learn the real stuff and, and learn football. So, uh, we've all been there and if we say we haven't, we're lying to, to ourselves and to everyone around hearing us because Dunning kruger's real, it's scientifically proven thing. It happens to everyone and every hobby they ever try to pick up. And it doesn't, it doesn't change for football. Coaches, you, you come in and you think you've got the answers, and then you go, holy crap. Uh, you know, because it doesn't matter what your introduction is, it's the way you do things. Uh, and you just have to realize that there's so much more out there. So you kinda lived it. Maybe you never even heard of it, but you, you've already went through it and now you're, you're climbing back up that mountain. Um. step at a, Yeah. Yeah. So, and you know, we just continue learning and I think that's one of the big keys. So, so kudos to you for sticking with it, man, and, and taking that risk the second time, because it's not for everybody, right. Even being a position coach or coordinator, it's not for, you're gonna get absolutely roasted sometimes. I have been a DB coach and my guys couldn't cover, we're a cover three team, and they couldn't, they got beat deep. Like, how do you what are you doing? It making me look like the worst coach ever. Um, and if you can't, if you can't, uh, just let the water roll off your back, Yeah, you up and spit you out. So, kudos to you. appreciate it. Yep. Um, so we'll kind of push through that first question of how do you get the job? Because obviously you, you just told us so, um, you you do? Yeah, yeah, Let's, let's, let's do the Agile. It was good. Thank you very much, Kenny. I almost forgot. So, Kenny, why don't you tell us how we can simplify football for, uh, our staff and our team? We'll get 'em all edited in there. Good call. I would've blown right past it. I'd already read past it. That's the problem. Alright, appreciate that coach. Um, all wonderful stuff there. If you have not met Zach Welchman, you need to make that, that check, that email, reach out to him, learn about what he's doing with pro com and how he can help out your team. Uh, big things coming and a sports. Get ahold of Mark or Ryan, whatever region you're in. Those guys at aport, look, it is a free fundraiser. You do nothing. They help you get it all set. I'll say absolutely nothing, but they help you get everything set up. Now you got this beautiful video board and, and you've, you've not done all the footwork. They're gonna set you up to help you get to break even. So get ahold of Mark Ryan. If you're in Oklahoma, it'll be Ryan instead of Mark. Um, and, and reach out to Coach Welchman. Back to the questions here. Uh. Coach and, and, and Kenny, I know you've not had a lot to say to this, so, you know, I know that you've done your first year and then you've moved to bigger schools and you've moved back. So I'm sure that some of this affects you as well. But, um, Logan, what, what was that first thing or what all did you find out? Like you really didn't know? You talked about I thought I was ready, but I wasn't. So kind of can you walk me through what that looked like when it hit you the first time? Like, oh, I don't, I don't have an answer here. Yeah. Um, I think the first time that it really hit me, um, we were playing a team and I, I think we were down about 60 to nothing at halftime. And, uh, nothing. Yeah, nothing really punches you in the gut quite like that. And that, that was the first time I really thought, man, I might have bitten off more than I can chew here. It wasn't 49. Nothing. It was Right. No, I, I'm I'm gonna be honest with you. I, I think it, it might even been 61. Um, so it wasn't, uh, it was a, that was my first feeling of, uh, I just felt helpless. Like I, I didn't have an answer. I didn't, I didn't know how to help put these kids in the best position to succeed. Um. So that's, again, you, you start reflecting, which you hate to do that in the middle of a season. You know, the, the hope is you can wait until the season's over to start reflecting. And, and I mean, obviously every week you kind of analyze things and, and see what you can change. Um, but you know what, obviously there, there's a million schemes out there that, that works a lot. Other, other than that, you know, like you mentioned before, um, especially a lot of guys going in their first year as the head coach, they think there's only one way to do things and one way to run things. And you should only do zone, uh, until you meet Kenny Simpson, then he is gonna convince you to go over to Gap, which is, which is what happened here. Um, but outside of Schematically, um, really culturally, um, I was kind of, I guess just an old school guy. Like you just, you show up and you play football and you, you don't really need to do that other stuff and. Um, I, I'll say, which I know this is kind of venturing further, but I, I'll say that's definitely um, was the difference in us this season was our culture and our core values and what we preach and what we talk about every single day. Um, and I think culture's a word that gets thrown around a lot, especially these last five years or so. And, and it's, it's a pretty word, so you really have to be able to define it for you and your program. Like it can't just be a, an umbrella catchall. Um, so, so we did that and we've got our five core values and, um, our, our number one is best is the standard. And that, that pretty well, there's no gray area there. I mean, best that, that's number one. Um, and that does, again, before it was all wins and long. That doesn't mean best like we're gonna be the best team in the state. Um, now is our goal to be the best team in southern Illinois. Absolutely. But it's, it's the best in everything. You do it, it's the best at practice, it's the best at school, it's the best out in community, giving your best effort in everything you do. And if not, it's not up to our standards. And man, that just spread like wildfire. Like we had kids, we had coaches, kids, uh, some teachers, like they were getting, they, our kids were getting called out if it wasn't the best. Says, Hey, best is a standard that's not our standard. Um, and man, it just really, again, there's no gray area there. It's, it's black and white best. Did you give your best? No. Okay. That's not up to our standards. Let's get it next time. Um, and so I'll just real quick, I'll, I'll go through our core values. Uh, and I, I highly recommend that, that everyone does their own, whatever that is. But number one, as best is the standard. Uh, number two is elite commitment. Number three is relentless ambition. Number four, optimistic mindset and number five brotherhood, uh, which we tag a definition and brotherhood is love one another. Uh, and we even, you know, we live in the social media world, so our hashtag is is brick by brick. Um, and that's really, again, I, I know I'm kind of further in the, the question that you had, but an answer, you know,'cause as coaches we're just, we're problem solvers, you know, we're, we're looking for solutions to our problems. Um, and I, we didn't have a culture at my first job and that falls directly on me because I didn't define what our culture was and what it needed to be. And I didn't hold our kids to standards.'cause we didn't have standards'cause I didn't create 'em. Um, so I, I'd say that's, that's really the biggest is, is you've gotta be able to find that and you've gotta have your coaching staff and your leaders and, and everybody, um, bought into your core values. Kenny was there. What did, like, I know yours has been, you know, one or two years ago, that was your first head coaching job, but I, how much did yours align to what he just said? Was it X's nose? Was it culture? Was it working with other people? What? What was your big thing that you fell off the cliff? Yeah. You change a lot as you get older and then you can remember back and then. You know, a lot. I love hearing coach talk. I love hearing young coaches that are humble and want to get better. And a lot of times you, you know, kind of what you, you are, and coach clearly does, but it's hard to define some things until you get far enough removed where you look back at him and go, man, no wonder that was tough. And so I, I wrote down a couple things Coach said on his first answer that we did before the break here. Uh, the one that you talked about, the, the older coach told him patience and love and discipline. And, and I, I agree a hundred percent with what coach told you, but like I've learned that one of those three, one of those three really only comes with age. Like you can discipline yourself at a young age. You can teach yourself to love and be passionate. Man, I don't know if you get patience until you get older. I really don't. And I really don't know, like if you want to hire a guy who's a really patient person at a young age, because I think that's something you earn. You learn and you go through, like, I'm still not patient, but I'm a lot more patient because now I've been on the back end where I've seen, you know, now I've got kids that I coach that are dads and you know, they're married. And so now I can see the finished product. But until you can really see the finished product, you don't really know what the whole picture looks like, if that makes sense. And so that's, I think, where a lot of times younger coaches struggle with patience is when I was young and I was full of everything. You know, my kids weren't that age, and so I didn't quite see them as other people's kids. I saw 'em as my players and here's how they should behave. And so I think patience is one of the things you'll, you'll gain. I, I just wanna kind of throw the little caveat in. I love the first answer and then the second answer. Coach did a great job with that too. Here's the ones I wrote down for me, Daniel. So these are the five things that, like my first years as a coach that I struggled with mightily. Uh, and mine are a little more practical than, than coaches probably are, just because I've had more time to sit down and think about 'em. You know, one, I was horrible with coaches, like I was, I was pretty good with players. That's how you get those jobs. Like you get a job because you're really good at motivating players or you're doing a good part of your job. Generally, you get a head coaching job because you're good at being around kids and that, and when you become a head coach, now most of my time is spent around adults. Those are not the same skillset, you know, and sometimes it's very uncomfortable. You know, Logan here is 29, has a full head of hair. One day he is gonna look like me. It's easy for me now to walk in a room with young coaches and critique him. Like, I don't like doing that. But it's easy because I could be some other dads like I'm, I'm the age now where that's okay. That's really hard to do If you're 29 and a guy's been coaching for 20 years. How does that conversation go? And I was terrible with that. Like I was really bad with that. So if you're in here gonna be a head coach, you better figure out your plan of action for that 'cause it's, that's tough. I think that's the number one thing that most young head coaches struggle with is not controlling the kids. It's controlling the staff. Because you either work by yourself and don't tell the staff what you need help with and then you do it all, or you don't teach 'em what you expect and they don't meet the standard and you don't address it. Those are the two big issues that I ran into. Second thing that I learned was discipline is way greater than motivation. Like a lot of times you think as a young coach, I'm gonna go in and love these kids so much, they'll play hard for me. And part of that is true. And playing hard is important. It is important that your kids love you and they wanna play hard for you. I'm not negating that. I'm saying that discipline beats that every day of the week and then some. And discipline is, can your kids do hard things when they have to do it? Can they execute fundamentals of the game when they have to do it at the hardest times? That isn't necessarily something you can just do a motivational speech and get across. That's a daily thing. You're in the military, Daniel, so you know what I'm talking about. Like it's one thing to get motivated to go storm the beaches of Normandy. It's another one to go on a six week campaign where you have to get up every single day and be disciplined. And I think I learned real quickly that my teams would come out like their hair was on fire, but if things went south, we didn't really know how to deal with that. And so that was a young big issue I had as a young coach. The third thing I put down here. It took me a while to realize that the other coaches got paid to, like, I just assumed I was smarter than everybody else. I worked harder, at least in my own mind, and I had studied harder, at least in my own mind than the other guy had. So therefore I should, I deserve to win. That's not how this world works. It didn't work that way. You might be smarter than that guy, but he's got five D one kids, or you might be dumber than that guy, but your kids are a little better than his kids. Or sometimes the official threw a flag at the right time that helped you win. Or sometimes you were smart, but that guy's been around for 40 years and he's seen what you're doing and he's on, he is three steps ahead of you. So that was tough for me to kind of humble myself. And it sounds like Logan learned that lesson pretty quickly from here in his oh nine deal, where you learn that crap, these other guys are paid too, and I better kind of have something to bring to the table in this world. The fourth one I got down here was being a head coach is lonely. Like you go from being the guy around the table everyone wants to talk to to being, there's a different kind of conversation, even your friends, different conversation there. And that can be a really hard reality for a lot of coaches is coaches. That relationship changes and it just is what it is. I'm not saying you can't be friends with your assistant coaches, but it's different when you're the head coach as to when you're an assistant coach. And that's a tough, tough, world to be in.'cause who do you go to as your problems? Like you really don't need to be going to your assistant coaches with your problems. Like you can go to them. If it's a team thing, we're gonna work together, but you need somewhere else to go. So you need a support system. The last thing I put down here was you learn real quickly when you're a head coach that. Before you're a head coach, scheme is like 99% of your job. Like 99% of what you do is creative ways of good practices and new plays and new blitzes and and all that stuff. And so you're just consumed with it. And I still am, obviously I run the gun tee, but when you become a head coach, scheme is about 10% of your job. It really is. 90% of it is the stuff Logan's been talking about, creating a culture, loving your players, putting out fires daily. Daily. This is a perfect Wednesday. I talked about beginning of the podcast, perfect. Wednesday, I still had to deal with three different issues, kid, not i. SS kid decided he didn't wanna play football anymore and I had another one. Well, when you're a young coach, those issues seemed huge. They just seemed huge and they ruin your day. As you get older and you're used to dealing with it, you kind of are able to kind of handle it better. But I know the first time I was a head coach, it felt like every decision. You had to be perfect at, and you're making 30 decisions a day, and it's really hard to be that way. And so that's tough is when you start looking at scheme is not as important. I gotta be better at these other kind of things. I gotta be able to compartmentalize my emotions from being frustrated with this kid for quitting and walk out and have a good workout with these other kids. How are you gonna deal with that kind of stuff? So those are the things that I learned as I've gotten older. Still not great at 'em, but better. I think a lot of those, um, you know, that you talked about scheme, 90% of your job as an assistant or. Coordinator and, and those problem solvings. Um, Logan, you talked, you know, you said you were 60 at nothing at halftime, obviously you didn't have answers. Right. They were presenting a problem you couldn't solve. And that is a lot. I think that's as bad as, I hate to admit it, people need more coordinator time, right? I'm in my fourth year and I'm applying for head coach jobs because I bring a, a different experience, right? I, I bring the military side and, and like, I hope, my hope is that's gonna help me deal with adults because I've done that, right? And I, that was even one of my interview answers was like, how are you gonna do this job? You've never done it. Well, I have, I just did it in a different uniform. Um, so, you know, I think you really didn't need that coordinator time to get those answers so that you can help that coordinator who's struggling on Friday night, that can't stop, whatever it is, Kenny's buck sweep Mac, you know, and, and his backside. RPOI can't stop it, coach. Well, here, let me, let's try some things that I've used before. Don't so. I don't know that there is any figuring it out. What you talking about? I, it's uh, what the, the common answer, right? Just it's, uh, flavor of the week defense. That's how you win those games. I'm pretty sure. Um, I think it's super cool that you guys, you know, you've at least realized these are the really hard things and I hope this episode helps guys that are go into their first year and go, alright, yes, I have a playbook drawn up on Canva. I'm ready to take it and show it off to the world. It looks great. I got all the perfect colors. My logo's great. Kenny, you nailed it. Like, what are you doing when a kid quits? What are you doing with your star player? What are you do when a kid that's supposed to go D one, can't keep his grades up and you're Well, I, I, I could throw hundreds of issues and I know this, not this before, I don't go along, but here, maybe you just, here's a couple samplings. Your best player's selfish and he has to touch the ball. You gotta figure out how to deal with that. Your best player doesn't wanna block. Your best player needs to play quarterback, but he scored a nine on his a CT. Okay? Your best player's gonna play a AAU basketball and miss the summer. I mean, those are just random ones that I'm probably dealing with all the time. You gotta have an answer for that, and there's not a guidebook. Because all the young coaches want to tell you, and I'm not, I'm not picking on Logan here, I'm not saying he would say this, but all the Twitter gurus and everybody else will say, well just kick 'em off and we're gonna create co. Okay, so now your four best players aren't playing. You're gonna go, oh, in 10 and get fired. Like, that's not a good answer. What's a real answer in that? And how do you find a middle ground? And how do you slowly create culture?'cause everyone wants to come in and say, well, our best players work the hardest. Yeah, those are fun years. Like you're gonna be really good those years. But there's are, those aren't all the time. So how are you? How are you creating that? What is your system in place to catch the ninth grade kid who hates the weight room? He'd rather go play basketball. He's lazy. He's soft, but he is by far your best player. What are you doing culturally to help him by the time he's a senior, be a leader? Like you can't just say, we have this program, bull crap, programs don't work. Like what are you really doing to help that kid? Are you putting him with a mentor and what specific kid is he going with? Are you checking in with him? What life lessons are you? There's a lot of those things you gotta go through. I don't mean to go off on a tangent here, but that coach, I love it. We lit the fuse and I'm absolutely Well, that's one issue. Know what I'm saying? Like that's one, that's one small part of being a head coach. Let's throw on that guy's. Dad's a douche because now you just added fuel to the fire. And then his dad's also the principal. Boom. What are you doing in that situation? Because you're 29, here you go, and this is what you want as a head coach. Welcome to it. And that's kind of what a lot of these coaches get thrown into. There's no, there's no like playbook for that. So who do you go talk to to get advice and what do you do when you know you did the wrong thing? Like, well that didn't work. Crap. Now what do I do? You know? So there's all those issues you gotta deal with. And so I'm glad to have Logan on here. I wanna get more of his opinion'cause I'm an old coach that can tell you all this stuff. But I like the fresh perspective of him and you, Daniel.'cause you guys are the future. You know, Okay. I love it. I I love soaking it up. You know, I'm obviously a, a clinic guy. I love watching podcasts and videos, so I'm just. For a second. I even forgot that I was even on the podcast. I just thought I was. I love it. I love, yes. Thank you for the advice. And like you, I mean, there's, there's the data. OHG. No, I'm glad you did, and I'm sure everybody watching that's gonna watch this needs, needs to hear all that because that's, that's what it is. And you don't realize how much, um, outside drama that you have to deal with until you're in this seat. You know, like you said, it's daily. It's every single day. And how are you gonna deal with that? Um, and I, I promise you, as a 29-year-old, I don't have all the answers. Um, and I try to learn, and, and you mentioned, you know, I think it's really important to have guys that you can rely on. You know, I'm, I'm very blessed, um, that in southern Illinois, I, I've got a handful of coaches that I can reach out to. Um, and I asked their advice on things. And again, multiple guys from from my own town that coached here for a long time and, and know this specific community that, that, I can lean on for advice. Um, but there's no, uh, there's no book out there on how to deal with it. And, and everyone, every, everything's different. Um, and I'll say, you know, for, for the young guy, definitely. Um, and, and you mentioned it, not reacting on emotions, that's something that got me in trouble a lot early on in my career there. Uh, there wasn't a battle that I was gonna back down from like, controversy did not, uh, scared me off at all. Like, I always go, I was hitting that head on. Now it's like, let's, let's pick our battles. Let's be smart about what we're going to battle for. Um, You're married yet, but that will also help in that arena when. I so engaged actually weddings here in a couple weeks, so definitely, uh, yep. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um, so that's one. You know, I know earlier I mentioned ha having an open mind. Um, again, not just in scheme, but, but when talking to people, I think you've, when you're in this seat, you've truly got to be able to see things from the other person's perspective. Even if you disagree. You've got to completely hear them out, put yourself in their shoes, and, and then you gotta make a decision. You know, leadership's leadership, it doesn't matter if you're in the military, if you're a head football coach, if you're a business owner, uh, when you're in leadership, it's your job to hear people all the way through and then make a decision and go with it. Um, and Coach Simpson, I, I know, you know, obviously you've been a head coach for a long time. When you do that, group A is gonna be happy and group B is gonna be mad. So it doesn't matter you're making somebody upset. Uh, just hear everybody out and then make the decision that you think's best. Uh, and that's just in the day to, I mean, that's, again, there's no magic wand, but that's just my day to day when, like you mentioned, I'm, I'm gonna go to school tomorrow and there's something that's gonna pop up. Uh, and it's important. Just not, don't react on emotions. Uh, 'cause that's the very first, I don't know about you guys, but the very first thing I do is I, I just get infuriated. Um, and before that just came out. Stop. Think things through, see it from the other person's side. Talk to people you trust and then go from there. I love it because look, I have not been a head coach yet. But I am like on the other side of 35, and I'm, I'm not too far removed from a lot of those things. Just being furious at people for the same, you know, just, and now I'm like, you're not really worth my time. Like, I, I'm not gonna ruin my day for your problem. It's just not, not, not worth it right now. Uh, coach, so now we've, we've talked about you want oh, and nine, you got a 10 in one season. You've seen both sides of the spectrum. We have that understanding of, of, uh, I like the word dichotomy of how to handle things and, and, you know, the world is not black and white. We have to live in the gray. Yep. But now that you've seen both sides, what, what are you doing going forward? How are you gonna make next year, uh, your best year, if you will, whether it be in your record or just reaching your ceiling? I'm, I'm real big on your ceiling may not be 10 in one. Next year it might be four losses, right? But how are you, what are you doing to make sure you hit that ceiling and not falling into a uh oh Yeah. I'm the best coach ever. I went 10 in one. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I, I think what will always help me personally. Is that I went through that oh nine season, my first season. I just got humbled. And I, I always go back to that. Um, so I don't foresee myself falling in that trap. I, I know some people do. Um, but just having a growth, growth mindset, um, again, I, I just learned not too long ago that I don't know anything. Um, so now I'm, I'm really just a student of learning, not just the game schematically, but again, culture. I love listening to people in leadership. Um, you know, our guy who's our defense coordinator now is, is one of those coaches that I mentioned before that was here for 30 years, and he's a guy that's coached for over 30 years. And you, we don't have a coach on staff that's trying harder to learn than him. And it's like, what a great example. This guy's been doing it for over 30 years and he's still studying like a GA in college. I mean, it, it's awesome. It's a, it's a great example. Um. So not only learning, but uh, again, leaning back to I, I was blessed to see how things are done at a very high level. Um, to me the most important thing that you can have as a head coach is a really good coaching staff. Um, football is too big of a game. There's too many moving parts. Again, not just schematically, but everything that goes on to just have one or two guys. Like, you've got to be able to build a staff, you've gotta invest in your staff, giving them resources. You know, COVID obviously was, was a unique time. Um, and not everybody's favorite by far. But something for, in the coaching world that came really good out of it is there's so many resources out there. There's so many, like, it doesn't matter if, you know, it's Glazer Drive, um, coach Simpson's, gun Tee. I mean, I could go down the list. I give 20 different things and still not hit. I'm sure something that you guys think is out there, that's great. And it's just like before you go to a clinic or two and you take notes and you try to take one thing and like, man, now it's, it's at the tip of your fingers. Um, so I learned, I learned when it comes to building a coaching staff is, um, and I Coach Simpson touched on this last year and it, it was before I list, you know, just something I picked up from his clinic before I was even the, in the position that I'm at, I was still an assistant assessor, um, but he said Hire hire people first. And that's man hitting the nail on the head. Find good people and they can learn football, especially in today's day and age. Like it's, the resources are out there. If they want to be a football coach and they're a good person, they, they can get it. Um, and again, we're, we're blessed in a unique situation that we have multiple guys at the coach here for over 30 years and will bend over backwards to help these young coaches because they still care about the program. Um, but again, back back to your question, something I think not only investing in myself and trying to be the best coach that I can be, but investing in our assistant coaches and helping them be the best coaches that they can be. Um, and it's also a unique balance with which you'll find, and I'm sure Coach Simpson's had some experience on this. E every coach is different in the amount of responsibility they can handle. Um, some coaches want a full play, like they want it right off the bat. Give me as much as I can, have other coaches don't, and they, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's, your job is to head coach to, to really get to know your assistant coaches and like, what, what, are they looking for? Because if you put too much on a guy at once, um, he's gonna get overwhelmed and now you're gonna have to repair something that you probably broke because, um, again, back to our clinic, you know, I know you talked about that book, extreme Ownership. Um, to me, like everything's my fault. It doesn't matter like what it is, like it doesn't matter what it's, it's my fault. There's, there's something that I could have done differently. To have changed that situation. Um, so just always reflecting on that. Obviously young coaches, you know, we're, we're gonna make mistakes. Um, but that, that's really the biggest, I think, is just investing in your assistant coaches and, and building the staff with longevity. Again, I was blessed to see that firsthand, uh, when I, when I played at the school that I. I'm, I'm super glad you brought up extreme ownership because that's, that's like my mantra in life and sometimes I don't even realize it is, but I, I have a, a coach that I've kind of taken under my wing and I'm like, he's just a, a lay coach. He has been most years because he has a full-time job. Um. And he's become, he calls himself the president of my fan club, which is hilarious. But he's, and he is, and he's the one that told me, he was like, when I talk to people, I tell 'em your mantra is extreme ownership. I was like, I guess it kind of is. Um, when I'm talking youth, when I'm talking to um, young coaches, when I'm talking to students players, that's the only book I wanna talk about. Extreme ownership.'cause everything's your fault. Um, as you reach that head coach level, maybe your second or third year, um, Logan, you're probably there and need, if you haven't need to read Dichotomy of Leadership because it is the follow on and it does teach you. My, my wife is the first one who brought this up.'cause I didn't read it for a long time. I didn't read the second one. Um, and I was this extreme ownership. It's my fault, it's my fault, it's my, I'm a DC for the freshman team at the fifth largest school in, in Oklahoma, and I'm making everything my fault. And she was like, you, you can't be responsible for a hundred percent of everything. It's just impossible. Like, that's bad. It's bad advice. So I finally read the second book, and it really does talk about that dichotomy of, it's called the dichotomy of leadership. I mean, but it just breaks those things down where you can learn that like, yes, everything is my fault, but I'm still going to hold people accountable for the stuff they didn't get done. Oh yeah, that gets overwhelmed. absolutely. I, it absolutely is your fault that you didn't get a job done, but it's, we're gonna have that conversation too. And when that conversation is not going to be, Hey, that was my fault. So I love introducing people to that concept of extreme ownership. Um, and as you progress and it gets that time, you do have to jump into the dichotomy and learn the balance. The gray area we talked about earlier, and like, you know, Kenny said that's, there's so many things you've gotta learn how to just fit in the middle, and you can't, you can't jump on either side. Um, so that's pretty good, And I think to, to build on that, you know, you mentioned taking ownership, but then when somebody does, you gotta have that conversation, you know? To coaching staff and I, and I'd love Coach Simpson's opinion on this as well. Um, and back to leadership, you know, I, it's, it's our job to hear everybody's opinion, but then make a decision. Um, and I think it's really important to be able to seeing your assistant coaches who's okay with that and who isn't, you know? Um, because it's like, I'm gonna hear you out, I'm going to hear your opinion, but then it is my job to make the decision that I think is best for this team. And that's something that, that I'm really trying to find the balance, because I don't want, you know, a, a term is a yes ma'am. I, I don't want a yes ma'am. Like, I want your opinion. I, I wanna learn, I don't want you to just be in the room. I don't know everything, but I think there's a very thin line of. Not being a yes man and being, being poisoned. Um, because if, if we're in that coach's office and we're having these discussions, again, I'm gonna hear you out. I'm gonna get your opinion. I'm gonna think it all the way through, but then I'm gonna make a decision. Now, if that decision that I make doesn't align with your opinion, are you okay with that? Or, or are you gonna start stor stirring the pot behind the head, coach's back and going against the head coach's decision because it's not what you agree with? That's when I think, and again, coach Simpson has done this a long time, and I love his opinion. That's when, okay, is this a young guy in his twenties that we can kind of discuss this and work through and like, Hey, this isn't okay. Or is this a guy that's in his and coached for maybe 15, 20 years and this is just him and he's not on board with what we're doing? So Coach, love your opinion on I'm gonna start off with that and then I'll go back to whatever Daniel's got. I, there's a couple things I try to keep in line with that. One is, I, I call it the 80 20 rule. Like if a guy can do a job as well as you, 80% of the time, Yep, you know, is 80% as good as you do, we're gonna give that guy some freedom. You know, like there are some decisions that we don't have to argue about, like this coach, so-and-so's in charge of our uniform dis and, and I trust him to do it and he's gonna tell us why he is doing it and then we're gonna, we're gonna do that. Like, I don't, honestly, 'cause I don't really care. Like this is what he is gonna do. Okay. And so there are a lot of times that you mentioned it coach, but there are a lot of times you can find opportunities to give coaches ownership. You mentioned how much you can put on their plate that I look at it as opportunities for leadership like that we try to give every coach. Some field of leadership that could be like specific to position. Of course, I'm talking more off the field, like we have a coach who's responsible for, you know, ordering our gear, but he also has to help do inventory. So he got a job that sucks in a job that's good. You know, you got a coach that, hey, he's in charge of the weight room. Well when we get extra money for the weight room, he gets to do that. But he is also the guy that's gotta make sure it's taken care. So there's lots of opportunities there you can find for guys to lead. And I think that bleeds over into kids too. Like, and I will circle back to your answer's, I promise, but I think there's a lot of times we can find opportunities and things that really don't matter. To allow seniors to have a huge say in what we're doing. Like what color gear are we gonna get? You know, are we gonna, you know, in practice early this day, are we gonna do this activity? There's these three options you guys have, and then there's the other group you've gotta get on your side, like these are, I call these the alphas. These are the guys that, whether you want to admit it or not, they really lead the team. You don't really lead the team, they lead the team. So those guys we're gonna bring in and have a lot of conversations with them and give them a lot more leadership opportunities, whether it's specific kids I need you to go help me with. Whether it's, hey, we're looking at doing these helmets this year instead of these helmets, Hey, we're looking at going to this team camp instead, that team camp. Hey, we're looking at. Shortening practice on Tuesday and going longer on Wednesday, or we're looking at coming in in the morning on this one.'cause whatever it is, well those guys are gonna have a big say in those things.'cause ultimately, let's be honest, those things don't matter. They don't matter when in football games. But now those guys, coaches and players feel they have a chance to lead. So that can alleviate 90% of the issues. We get ourself painted into a corner where we feel like we have to have a group discussion on everything. And then as a coach, Logan, you're having to be the judge and jury of hearing two sides argue. You know? So we can, if we can eliminate those things because, because it doesn't really matter. Let's eliminate those issues and give these coaches a chance to kinda lead. Then you have to have the, are you a man or a boy conversation? And that's the conversation you were talking about, like. When we have to make a decision that you don't agree with, are you gonna be a man about it and get mad for 10 minutes? And if we wanna arm wrestle or whatever, we're cool, but when you leave, we're done. Are you gonna be a boy or are you gonna go gossip like a little girl? You know what, what are you gonna be in those moments? Because we can't have, we can't have that. And those guys, there's no right, like you said, there's, that's a tough position. It's not a tough position. The tough position is, you know, you gotta fire that guy and you don't want to, like, that's the hard part. Like we all know who the guy is in our program. That's a poison. We all know. Do you have the ability, 'cause your school may not give it to you, or do you have the courage to let that guy go? You know? And so, or do you have the courage to realize you're the poison? Like that guy's trying to help you. You are the wrong guy. So there's those. Hard times, but a lot of times I really feel like we know the answer. Like we go home and we know the an, we replay it in our head and we go, man, I was wrong about that. And are we man enough to admit that? Or we go home and we go, this guy's killing our program. I should hope I can turn a blind eye and maybe we can get by. I feel like, I feel like you kind of know deep down that like I think, and every now and then you're blindsided. I've been a young coach before and I've kind of had a blindside come, but even with that, I kind of knew that guy wasn't all in with what I needed, you know? And I didn't have the courage to address it, you know? And so that's kind of where I fall on that. But I do have a couple other little tips on your thing here. I think Daniel and I love how Coach brought it up, having an older coach like that coach that speaks volumes, one to him and two to you. Like that guy's not sticking around. For some guy who doesn't respect him and who isn't gonna learn from him, like eventually that's gonna be me. I'm gonna be that old guy helping whoever the coach is. As long as I respect that coach, and I know that coach was what's best for our kids. So credit to him and you and you brought it up. What can we learn this off season? What can I get better at this off season? I give clinics, I'm, I'm leaving tomorrow morning to go give a clinic. And so I have to carve out time, carve out time for me to learn. Like, just 'cause I'm giving a clinic. I mean, I know everything about everything. Of course not. I gotta carve out time to get better at what we're not good at. Like we weren't great with man to man, had to throw it place. So I've spent a lot of time this off season talking to a lot of people that're a lot smarter than me. And then what fits our system? What works? But the basic idea though is what can I get better at? And you got a guy who's a hall of fame coach trying to get better. So we can all do that. And then I, I put down this last one here. I think you need to make the kids experience as good as possible. You know, we went 10 and two this year. We had a great year, and they remember the winds. We got a banner, you know, they remember all that stuff. First time we've ever done all these cool things, you know what else they remember the most? Going to St. Louis to that gun Tee Camp Logan that you came to and staying overnight. We slept in the gym, gym on the floor, and we took 'em to a cardinal game. Half of 'em have never been to a professional game before. Half of 'em have never left the state. They remember that more than they remember the games. And so I think sometimes as coaches we forget that like we, we think winning or losing, that's the experience. No, not really. I mean the, the stuff that you did between the summer and the end of the year. That's the experience. What are you doing? What events are you doing with your kids? How are you making the games fun? How are you making the camps fun? What are you doing in practice to be fun? Their stories are not gonna be about winning and losing. They're gonna be about hanging out with their friends. Or when Coach Gould did something silly on our staff, that's what they're gonna remember. So try to remember that. And that's my, one of my goals this year is to continue to enjoy the ride. You know, last year I really thought was gonna be my last year's head coach and I really thought, I'm gonna come back and work for this coach. And our admin asked me to stick around for a couple more years and, and uh, I've got a guy I think's about ready to be a head coach and I'm ready to go work for him when that time comes. But I lived that year, like it was my last year. Everything was a fun event. I was trying to soak up the moments and man, that was my favorite year'cause I thought it might be my last, you know, and I think this year I hope I can do the same thing. Can I soak up the moments? Can we do the fun things? Can we try to enjoy?'cause a lot of times when you're 29, you know, when I was 29, 10 years goes by and man, you don't ever stop and enjoy. It's always about getting better. It's always about this and there's nothing wrong with being driven, but man, you just kind of, you're just kind of driving your life away. Like what, when are you taking time to really enjoy what what you've been blessed with? And I think that's the one thing that I wish younger coaches, mainly me when I was younger, had known.'cause then you get older, you start to somewhat enjoy it and then it's gone. You know? And I wish that younger coaches would kind of, man, it's okay to stop and enjoy it. It's okay to celebrate wins.'cause winning is freaking hard. Like I don't care if you're 10 and oh, all 10 wins. Were hard and you need to enjoy 'em. And I think sometimes we've kind of put a stigma on, we expect it. yeah, Come on now. Enjoy what you're doing. You know, Absolutely. I appreciate that piece of advice. It's something I need to stop and smell the roses a little bit more. That's for sure. Yep. Well, we, uh, we're gonna move into our last part here, what not to do as a coach. Um, so Coach Simpson, this is your time to shine here, man. What, what's our lesson I feel like you've been letting me get off on tangent all night tonight, but, so my last one I'll get on here. The lesson as a coach is This because usually with Daniel, you're on here. You know you're gonna be a head coach soon. You know, Logan's, come on here. And I've come on and we've talked about we were not ready as a head coach. Well, news flash for everybody on the planet. You're never gonna be ready to be a head coach until you are a head coach. So if you're sitting here listening to us going, my goodness, they've scared the crap out of me. I don't wanna be a head coach. That's not the point of this. Like the point of this is you don't know what you don't know till you do it. So go ahead and take the plunge. I hear all coach. Well coach, how do I know when I'm ready? Well, man, do you, are you willing to work? Are you willing to learn? Then do it, but you're not ready. I don't care if you're 35, like Daniel, I don't care if you're 29, like Logan. I don't care if you're 57 until you've been a head coach. You're never gonna be ready. Like you're never gonna be ready. So go ahead and jump out there, but will be willing to learn as you go. I think that's the big takeaway from me when I talk to a lot of coaches.'cause they all come ask me when will they know? And I don't know if you ever know, like I don't know if you ever know that you're ready. And I don't think you ever are ready. I just think you know that you're wanting the opportunity and you're gonna do the best you can with it. And I think that's really all we can say. Yep. Good spot. Good, uh, good point there, coach. Um, last thing I wanna mention, just make sure you jump over and check out proco welchman.com. Um, let Zach get a chance to speak to you about pro com. If you're trying to upgrade headsets, maybe, maybe you're only a couple years into yours and you're tired of paying those high refurbished fees, uh, you know, I think that's something Pro Com does pretty well as they, they're, they're cheaper when you send 'em in to get 'em all refreshed. Uh, if you need a loud mouth, whatever it is you need, uh, they, he can hook you up. Once again, he's not, you know, he, he talks all the time. He is not a, he's not a timer guy, right? Pro com doesn't build timer, they build headsets, they wanna help you communicate. Um, so if you're looking for that type of thing, pro com, welchman.com, and if you're looking for a fundraiser. You've got a place where it's hard to get that money right, and you're tired of selling knick-knacks because please stop selling knick-knacks. Um, people don't want extra junk in their house. They wanna support your program. Okay? Uh, reach out to Mark or Ryan or whoever you can start with, mark, if that's what you need to do. Um, call those guys over at a sports and let them help you get a amazing video board in your stadium and you can use that for advertisements for years. What year are you on Kenny? Seven we're on seven. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a real quick story, Zach Welchman story too. Then I'll kind of give Mark A. Little plug here. So Zach was a coach for me. Zach Welchman guy who's selling headsets now. Now he is gotten smart and he realized you made more money selling headsets. Zach came to me one time. We weren't very good. We were like, we were just starting to get good. So we had one good DB. That DB drove him nuts, drove him nuts. Like he would always just pester him and just do different things to drive Zach nuts. So he said, coach, I can't work with him. I said, well, Zach, we got one DB and I can go find a DB coach in about five minutes. So you need to figure out how you're gonna work with this guy because he's what we got. So that's my Zach Welchman story. And guys, if you are looking for headsets, we use ProCon. We love him. Zach Welchman is great guy of integrity. He'll tell you if you need things or don't need them. He's a good one to go to. And then Mark, you talk about him on our video board. We're on year seven with our video board. We're about to run our second campaign. So think about this one. This is a real story. We got the video board. It cost us $250,000. We raised over 400. Mark helped a little bit with that. We helped with that. So I don't know if you can do math real well, but that's plus one 50. Okay? We put that money towards our weight room and some other things. Those commitment, we five year commitments. So we're on your seven, which means those five year commitments are up. So we're gonna use the same board and do another five year commitment. So do your math now at 400 plus 400 and start looking at how you can actually make money on a video board. And Mark will do a good job helping you with that. Perfect. And I love telling people that, you know, I, I kind of overheard different numbers for y'all's stadium there, Kenny, and, and, uh, but that's pretty much spot on with what I heard. Look, when you're going a half mill in the black and you're six of any fundraiser, I don't care what it is, it doesn't matter what the cost of that fundraiser is. You go, you go be $600,000 in the black today, tomorrow. So, uh, you know, reach out to, to mark or, or, or Ryan reach out to us if you don't. I mean, if you just want to email me and talk about it and, and see what we think before you call the man, that's fine. We, we'd love to help you out enough about the ads. Um, coach, I saw you got some new books, playbook stuff about to come out. Was that, Yeah, man, I get all kinds of stuff. Yep. So I'm working on a quarterback manual, so if you're listening to this, it's probably not out yet. I'm on page like 94 of 150 Some odds. I'm, I'm almost through the res and I'm getting into the drills, but we do have a gun T QB manual coming out. We wanted to pair that up 'cause we have the, the reps that VR machine we're now using. So if you're teaching the Gunt, you want to teach the RPO. We just put our kid through it this morning. It was pretty cool to watch him go through and go through all of it. Sitting with his, you know, Crocs on with a VR deal on and he is learning all our reads. And so playing, yeah, playing quarterback, like he's playing Madden or whatever he is doing there. But it was really neat for him and he really could tell he got better just from the time he put it on until he got done. That's over at reps vr. You can just message me. But those two things are coming out. And then I've got another book that'll be coming out very, very soon. It's called, uh, football Toolbox and it's a play call's guide. And so it's gonna be one of my, I call them real books, like those books take me probably a couple years to finish. I just finished this one, Jamie's doing the cover, so be on the lookout. It's coming. Hey, we could plug Jamie too. She does amazing work. I think she did Prairie Groves recently. Is she, the one that she basically, if anybody has a good graphic on Twitter, social media media guide, probably Jamie did it, you know? And so, uh, that's over. You can just email me and I'll get you in touch with her. All Line Coach Academy coming soon, That's right. That's coming out in April. So we got a bunch of stuff coming out probably around April. It's all gonna hit the fan I get. I don't know what the word is for that. That's good. But O Line Academy's gonna be sweet. We've got some dudes like I've reached out to guys and I was like, there's no way this guy's gonna say yes. And then he said yes. And then we went, okay, we're not just gonna go big names, let me find a two, a coach who's had to work with 150 pound lineman.'cause that guy can teach. So we got two or three of those guys in there. So I think it's gonna be a really great course for any Oline coach because we're gonna, you know, obviously have different intricacies, but by bringing all those guys in, I think it's gonna be a really cool deal. Yeah. Perfect. All right, guys, uh, social media real quick. Logan, if somebody wants to reach out to you and talk about how to go oh nine, where would they reach out to you at? I've got really good advice on how to go oh and nine. Uh, my Twitter handle I think is at Coach Spain, dq, uh, or you can just search Logan, Spain. I think I'm the only Logan Spain out there. There you go. Awesome. Uh, you can find me on, uh, Twitter slash x at Coach Chamber. ok. Email me at Chamberlain Football consulting@gmail.com. I feel like there's other ways, but I'm forgetting 'em. It's 10 30 at night or something. We, this, we pulled a late one tonight. Uh, and then Coach Simpson's at fb, coach Simpson on Twitter and x uh, at fb, coachSimpson@gmail.com is the best way to get ahold of him. If you have any questions, podcast at Coaching 1 0 1 Pod, um, we're slowly trying to get some more videos and stuff out there and clip up the podcast. It is, uh, it is a crazy time of year with everything going on, so if it's slow, hang out for a little while. Like Oklahoma weather, it'll change about 15 minutes. I wanna thank you for being a listener of the Coaching one-on-one podcast. We'll hope you join us next week as we continue to make the complex more simple. Please consider subscribing to the show so you'll always know when the new episodes are out. Coachman, absolutely love to having you on. Appreciate it. It's, it's great to, uh, you know, a lot of times we are, we do get the, the older coaches, the guys with a ton of experience'cause that's who you generally want. But man, it is refreshing to get a guy that has new perspective, but it already seems like you're, you're wise beyond your years in coaching and an age, you, you've kind of got it figured out it seems. Um. Not just because your record, but because the way you speak and carry yourself. Even when we talked at the clinic, I was like, all right, that's, that's a dude that's got it. So kudos to you for figuring out whatever you have right now, continue up that path that, that mountain. And we talked about having to climb after you fall off the cliff of stupidity because we've all been there. So man, excellent job of what you're doing and just keep, keep being real. Keep being real like that for your guys.'cause that's what they Thank you. I appreciate and I greatly appreciate you having me on the podcast getting to talk with you guys. I really enjoyed it. Coach, you coach. Uh, we'll leave. The expert, the real expert. The gun T is Logan, Spain is what people don't know. So if they put it on you at that camp, so. There you go. Uh, we'll leave you with this. It's hard to beat someone who never gives up, no matter the situation. Find a way.