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Transforming Nigerian Construction Through Sustainability | A Noble Conversation With Isemin Abia
Join us as we sit down with Isemin Abia and Mohammed Ali El Sheikh, the visionary co-founders of Oakview Construction. They share their approach to using wood in concrete structures, blending their expertise in mechatronics and civil engineering to create innovative solutions. Gain a deeper understanding of how Oakview Construction is leading the charge in sustainable and efficient building techniques.
Finally, we navigate the delicate balance between foreign investment and local enterprise. Hear our guests' thoughts on the impact of global conglomerates on Nigeria's construction sector, the importance of maintaining local business opportunities, and the critical role of the Nigerian diaspora. We delve into strategies for successful private partnerships and leveraging cutting-edge technology like 3D manufacturing to propel the industry forward.
Today we have two amazing guests. I mean, you know, we have Issemin Abia, who is one of my dear friends, known this man for like 10 plus years and then we have Mohammed Ali El Sheikh.
Speaker 2:El Sheikh means chief in, I think, aramaic. I don't know what it is in Egyptian.
Speaker 3:Al-Anon has different meanings.
Speaker 2:Three different meanings are crazy there's chief, there's prince, there is scholar.
Speaker 1:All three of them give C-suite, all three of them give executive executive of Oakview Constructors which is the company that is semen and uh el chic, uh co-founded, and so basically, today we'll just be having a conversation with these two brothers on um. You know what the state of construction looks like in nigeria, but also their approach to construction, because they're taking a slightly different approach as opposed to fully concrete, building with concrete, 100% doing, maybe partial with wood, partially with concrete, and I think it's interesting. And so today we'll just explore what the advantages of building with wood are and what's all the disadvantages could also possibly be most of them.
Speaker 2:So yeah, these are, these are like Smart brothers. I mean, simon, mechatronics, mechatronics, mechatronics. I just learned what mechatronics was. But yeah, iron man stuff, iron man Tony. Stark, tony Stark, I'm saying and then El Chic, civil engineering. I mean, the man also runs Like multiple businesses. He has we're talking real entrepreneurs, real, real, real. The man also runs like multiple businesses. He has we're talking real entrepreneurs Real, real, real, real.
Speaker 1:He has an entertainment business, jiggy Entertainment.
Speaker 2:Jiggy Entertainment Also has a restaurant, Sousou Grills. Sousou Grills, and so if you want Suya, hey, look, we got to ask him. That's where you get your Suya. That's your Suya port Sousou Grills look, we gotta ask them, that's where you get you. So, yeah, that's your seaport susu grill, exactly. This video is not sponsored.
Speaker 1:It's not sponsored unless they want to sponsor us you will eat it up on this camera please, but no, no, no jokes aside, these guys are amazing, and so I'm really looking forward to this conversation and, um, yeah I mean, you know, let's, let's have some conversations.
Speaker 2:No more conversations, exactly.
Speaker 3:No more conversations. Go on now.
Speaker 1:I know there was a recent proposal that was put out requiring that if a foreign company wants to do business in Nigeria and they want to bring in, you know, foreign employees, I think they have to pay a ten thousand dollar, this thing to the government for regular, for each regular foreign employee and then for director level and management level you have to pay fifteen thousand dollars per employee.
Speaker 1:I know, I know that's something they are still revising, but it sounds like one of the reasons the government decided to continue. Sorry, at least put a pause on it, because there were concerns that that could prevent foreign direct investment. So would you say that the same thing applies to that particular rule in the petroleum world?
Speaker 4:I just love that you're informed because, even in addition to what you just said, in addition to what you just said, actually, there's actually also a new capital requirement of about $500,000 for foreign direct conversion. Aside from when you're investing in the country you have to pay the Ministry of Interior. The Ministry of Interior now requires the equivalent of about $100,000 to cover as a foreign company. Aside from what you've just set up, there are a lot of things that the government is bringing up. Most of it is actually quality politics of local manufacturers. Only you get what I'm saying like local manufacturers just fighting competition, and usually they will use, but let's not go into that now. Um, as to the petroleum industry act, it's a different case because what the government's not saying, you pick an extra three million dollars, like in case of one community. You made $100 million from an Ewan community.
Speaker 4:The government is not saying you bring an extra $3 million to that $100 million. The government is saying that from that $100 million you made right, you paid $3 million to the community development for which you set up the community. So you're not paying an extra, you're just from the. So you're not making 100 million, you're now making like $7 million and if you think about it, and the net profit.
Speaker 4:You are being yeah, we're thinking about it like we are being honest and true to ourselves the amount of money this company is paying in bribes, in sorry, not in bribes, but superfluous regulatory charges to governments, to you know, as extra, I'll say extra judicial taxes, because those taxes are useless. You could get very, very funny taxes in the personal industry, in the personal industry in Nigeria. So these companies, like the hundred million dollars you make in Nigeria from an oil, well, these companies, like the $100 million you make in Nigeria from an oil, well, these companies usually lose up to $20 to $30 million of it and they were fine with it. So you cannot all of a sudden, oh, because we're now asking you to pay $3 million, you are now complaining, no, right, and the personal industry has actually reduced most of like. I think operating tax is now even as the age.
Speaker 4:A lot of all this, like license, even licensing before licensing from all over you developed was way higher than what it is today. So what you said, yeah, sounds like a way to dissentify people. Right, people are not encouraging, but the truth of the matter is mobile used to pay way more than that For them. Now, like in the community now it's a really expensive thing for them. It's not an incentive.
Speaker 3:Yeah is there like a? Is there like a um? Is there, is there a way that the government enforces, or that the community enforces, that um, uh, the um, the money is actually spent well, or is it just strictly up to that committee to decide?
Speaker 3:I'm telling you guys yeah, money is money money is distributed, right, but like, yeah, I don't know, I guess. I guess what I'm trying to get at is like uh, okay, yeah, there are a whole bunch of loopholes, is that in the third? But how do we know, or how does the government know, when that money is, like you know, distributed, that it would be used for what it's supposed to be used for? Or is there anything that holds these account? Is there any anybody that holds the committees accountable to do what they're supposed to do?
Speaker 4:So what I'll say in response to your question is that it's like a new initiative, right, it doesn't take a lot of time for things like accountability, success and all of that, most of those metrics. Before we started to measure those metrics, it took a while, and it's just last year that the government started enforcing it. So the act was passed in 2021, but it took at least almost two years before the government could decide thank the companies or you go back to your host community and actually develop them. So that already gives us an idea of how, like, it's going to take a while. Right, so this committee is now traditional rulers, market leaders. Right, so, like the head of the market, you know that community and the head of, maybe trading and also transport community, and the traditional ruler, like the king of that community, also would be on that committee or the representative.
Speaker 4:It would take a while for it to catch up and for us to protect it, but the most important thing is that it is there. Before these communities were neglected, there was no community. All companies would just simply spill the oil, do the oil, make money and develop Lagos and Abuja and other cities. But now these communities are being carried along and for someone who is from an oil producing community, I'm just excited by it. So as to how construction comes in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's ask. Elshik a little bit about construction, because I want to hear Because you know, elshik, you run operations and project delivery right. You're a managing director, and I'm sure this is not the only thing that you guys are doing, like you're doing entertainment, you do fashion, you know. So, like you said, you're also doing work with uni pro. So, yeah, tell us more about the construction side of things as it relates to book view and oil companies, partnership and oil companies partnership Well was that question directed at me?
Speaker 1:Anyone, anyone? I'm just throwing it out there. I want to understand.
Speaker 5:I don't really know anything about the oil thing, though, but as an operations manager.
Speaker 1:We can start with operations and then we'll move to how we connect to Quail, because I know you guys, as opposed to using concrete to build, you guys are moving towards using wood to build and we have questions about that so questions.
Speaker 5:For sure, we want to dive into that no problem well as an operational manager before Oakview, before Oakview in all the businesses I have involved in I usually happen to fall in the operational aspect of things. So it was natural that in Oakview I find myself in the operational aspect of things. But for Oakview and aesthetics the team batik center is, of course, and the whole idea is to be innovative in reducing costs and also in introducing structural integrity and functionality for these structures and whatever construction methods we are adopting. Now in Oakview and Aesthetics operations are a bit tricky because we are not a regular type of construction firm where other people are thinking about just getting the regular materials they have. It's like a manual for getting things done, but we have to actually formulate and develop these policies for ourselves.
Speaker 5:So basically what I usually do and the operations is not a one-man thing. I just hold the title of the operations manager, but the whole group still imputes into getting operations getting properly done. What we usually do is we set all around, put out a work plan, check what are the most feasible approaches and methods to achieving our results, integrate them into day-to-day operations and get results. But in the end I would say that there are natural other things and there are natural laws of the internet. We have economic laws and financial laws. We have operational laws too, which is paying attention to the smaller details, the bigger picture, getting projections of long-term, medium-term, short-term and putting that all together gives you a streamlined order of events.
Speaker 5:As the operations manager and overview and aesthetic, I just make sure that we are all in line in all departments. Like Abia, like Simon, the managing director is always overseeing marketing and hosting meetings, while the architect is coming up with designs and the CEO is thinking about implementation. I just make sure that we have all these activities going in line with one another and we are not having an issue of overlap, more of correlation we get. We make sure that we are formally integrated and we are moving as a unit. So the operation can be called the centerfold of the board or the group. We make sure that it holds and, like I mentioned, I just hold the title of the operations manager. It requires the entire group to create a streamlined order of operations.
Speaker 1:So why wood? Why?
Speaker 2:building with wood as opposed to traditional concrete.
Speaker 5:Why?
Speaker 2:timber.
Speaker 5:Well, first of all, you see the use of concrete from the civil engineering aspect. The use of concrete will require us exploring granite, exploring cement and other materials, which is deplorable to our environment because these are non-renewable resources. Timber, on the other hand, is a renewable resource. You can take down 100 feet and plant a thousand more over time. However, the seismic actions that come from exploring granite and other materials have a huge effect and impact on our environment and actually increases the heat, Africa being a hot place and a lack of trees and a reduction in existing minerals is on the high side.
Speaker 5:We find ourselves going into a red zone of a healthy environment, given the effects of global climate and all other things. So we came up with the idea of integrating timber and reducing the impact of taking from our immediate environment and replacing with timber in construction, reducing cost, increasing structural efficiency and, as a fact that Oakview is using timber, we have the social responsibility, of course, to uphold the integrity of our environment by making sure that this timber is renewable. We keep planting these trees, we keep sensitizing and orienting the environment and our clients and whoever is consuming our products. This is more beneficial to you, the environment and the world at large.
Speaker 4:It's interesting you brought up sustainability, because at the core of our CSR we intend to plant 10, trees here in nigeria every single year.
Speaker 4:Even at this startup, as we are walking through this capital and looking at how to miss capital to plant this tree right and some very like, there are some things that are going extinct. Some plans are going to exist and when we want to do so we can't find them. We have to import from outside, from Europe, sometimes from Ghana. Imagine importing trees from Ghana, which is not very sustainable For us. At the core of our CSR, our plan is to import 10,000 trees.
Speaker 2:It's going to be sustainable. Yeah, sustainable energy.
Speaker 3:It's going to be it's going to be. It's going to be, it's going to be.
Speaker 2:I saw that.
Speaker 4:You see, we get the full picture of our role in the construction industry and we know that. Look, apart from as much as our plants are very for the construction industry, we also understand the environmental aspect of things. I can't imagine someone taking out a tree in front of my house, which has given me so much shade, to come and say he wants to eat and build my own house. I would shoot you in the leg. Sorry, I'm not a violent person, but you can get the idea of how messed up that is. So, at the core, as I said, some of the things we are actively doing are budgeting right For this year. It's like look as we are buying, as we are procuring materials, as we are paying salaries, as we are going for media and marketing we are doing for media and marketing we're going to be planting those 10,000 trees.
Speaker 3:So, from, like, the standpoint of, say, there is a house fire over there and you know, in some places of Nigeria and where it's like, okay, so what's going to happen? Like we were lucky, we're fortunate enough to have a fire department and have a fire truck come on time to prevent the rest of the house from, like you know, being ruined. You know, but it's like in a place where nigeria, where, like, such infrastructures aren't as developed you know, yeah, if wood houses become the paradigm, become the normal um, no, well, well, I will answer that question.
Speaker 5:If I'm going to answer that question, I will say this first. You see, for oakview we don't necessarily mean it's 100% timber integration. That's why we keep using the word partially replaced. So the idea is to partially replace some integral parts of the structure with timber, for instance, where you have the entire perimeter of the structure made out of concrete but the partitions within the structure are made of timber, and then there are sensitive areas that may have to be made out of concrete walls and sacred walls. So basically, given given the nature also of our geographic environment, it cannot be entirely fully timber. But when you have the innovation of replacing the structures of structural parts with steel, timber and concrete and timber taking the center stage, meeting, meaning we'll have more timber than other materials we use to replace, not necessarily that it has to completely replace the concrete. I hope you understand. So the idea is that, moving forward of course, as the physical infrastructure of the country improves, we can properly shift from full concrete to full timber at certain places and demographic areas.
Speaker 3:Got you. But as of right now, you guys are trying to marry the two and meet in the middle. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, in addition to what Elshig said, we're actively looking at treatment that can make our wood fire resistant. Right, there's a lot of work that we're doing right.
Speaker 4:yeah, there are a lot of work that we're doing. Yeah, a lot of work we're doing because I'll give you a personal experience my house, my house, got on fire in 2015. Yeah, 2015, my house in nigeria. Yeah, yeah, I think I remember that. Yeah, yeah, the parallel side. So the thing is, the fire did not go beyond that road. Why? Because it was a door. It's a wooden door, but you expect it to go beyond that road, but it did not. Why? Because we have treated the wood to be fire resistant. There are chemicals that you can use so you to be fire resistant. There are chemicals that you can use so you just be applying it.
Speaker 5:I think, by annual, every two years.
Speaker 4:You treat the timber and it becomes somewhat fire resistant.
Speaker 1:What kind of chemicals do you use to treat the timber to make it fire resistant?
Speaker 5:I think this was the cause of the community yes, you have made the best yeah, because he's currently researching.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, but I can't, I can't speak um, essentially we have a head of sustainability, right, One of our co-founders, so he's an agricultural and bio-resource engineer. He studied it at the bachelor's level. I think he's now looking at furthering at the master's level in agriculture and bio-oresource. So as to the chemicals, most of the chemicals that are used here in Nigeria, from the preliminary studies, they tend not to last. We apply it after apply it again. So we're looking at longevity, because how would I remember to reapply a chemical on my wood, Like I mean, after three years?
Speaker 4:It would probably the chemical would fade off and then a fire catches my house and it burns it down. Like we were having a lot of these things. We're almost due for, you know, another treatment of the dose. So I'll say, like, right now, another thing that I we may have to mention is that, like we are really big on research right my wood source to how we drive our marketing, every, every single aspect of our business is given by reset. So I don't really want to make any preliminary um statement as regards the chemical use until maybe our head of sustainability comes up with the full report on how we intend to treat most of those people those fire, those ones that are fire prone right? So I mean these doors, windows. So maybe when it's done, maybe we can speak on it, Maybe our next, maybe another operator in the future future, he would be the one speaking along me it makes sense, yeah, yeah yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1:Another thing that you know I'm thinking about is from from a foreign direct investment perspective. Right, you have certain countries that invest heavily in Nigeria, specifically in the construction space. How do you see this contributing to basically a homegrown company in the construction space, as opposed to competition? Yes, like displacement maybe exactly because I mean, there's nothing wrong with foreign investments right, but at some point, um, some companies could, could, could basically take jobs that home companies or companies that are grown and developed in nigeria could work on. I don't know if that's making sense.
Speaker 3:I think I think another way to phrase that question is like how do you, how do you reckon, how do you reconcile, like you know, foreign investment and with, like um, foreign investment with these companies in the real estate place, in the real estate um, in that real estate environment, with um, uh, where do you draw that line between? This is good for the community and this is bad for the community in regards to the displacement of the people, in regards to keeping opportunities away from the people, Because with foreign investment comes the ability to come and quickly conglomerate in these specific places, like you can see, oversaturation of foreign companies who are in the real estate place, but, for example, a company such as Oakview you know what I'm saying One that's actually created by people from the country and all that stuff. So, like, where you draw the line between?
Speaker 1:this is good for companies like ours and it's detrimental, because it's's detrimental in regards to, like you know, the competition and all that yeah, also to add a little bit more specificity to the question I asked before, which I think daniel helps really explain it well is you have china, right, and chinese companies and these companies, you know, have helped in great ways to advance and develop. You know the construction industry to an extent, but at the same time you also want to have Nigeria and Nigerian companies to be able to stand independent of those investments, of those investments, right? So how do you strike that balance between you can partner with other countries and companies from other countries and you're not allowing that to control the affairs of the country and the locals there?
Speaker 5:That's the question, yeah that was a good one. I think this question has three sectors it's economical, it's political and at the same time, it's managerial. Exactly, it's not holistic.
Speaker 5:You cannot reply from a political approach, so to determine the economical aspect of things, the political aspect of things and, of course, the managerial, that infrastructure of how a company is set up. Let's say, for instance, a company like Oakview. Now, thankfully, we have somebody like our MD, who has proper political networks and Wait, sorry, you said who has proper political networks, and like Oakview, yes, and our MD, of course, who has proper networking and connections. This is very interesting. So the idea is that it will have to. It's a bigger picture, but if I'm taking it from the smaller point of view, that's, from the company point of view, it depends on how you intend to engage and interact with foreign investment. You have a foreign investor coming in saying, ok, I want you to invest $200,000 in your company and I want you to create an estate that is made out of the timber and all of that. But what about where the source of the timber is coming from? Is the source of the timber important? If it is important, it is directly affecting our foreign exchange. If we are sourcing locally, where are we sourcing locally from? Will it affect the environment there? The environment there? What about the communities there? How would it directly affect them?
Speaker 5:So I think all of these things, like Abiy has said, will require a lot of research and a detailed approach and a very meticulous and articulate method in reaching these goals. You can't just wake up and say, okay, we can't take foreign investments, or we can't take foreign investments. You have to look at it from all these approaches, all these sectors, and be able to take a more informed decision of how to move about this. But I think that in the end, foreign investment, it depends on the intention of the investor. If the investor is looking to develop a conglomerate for itself on another continent, it may not really be in your favor. But if it's looking at it from a humanitarian point of view, it may be in your favor. But if it's looking at it from a humanitarian point of view, if you look at it from a humanitarian, point of view, it may be in your favor.
Speaker 5:So I think we as a group like not necessarily Oakville we as a country and as the people of the country, have to actually be very strategic and scientific about how we go about these things. That should be my answer for that.
Speaker 4:To add to what my brother has said, he has actually captured it all. Look when we came together all six of us from this country we are acutely aware of, and what we do is essentially balance things. So, even when we had this conversation about this investor that wanted to bring up money and was conversing about the person's background and what the person does.
Speaker 4:In Nigeria, a lot of our wealthy people are not verywhat's the word. Well, they have very questionable backgrounds. So the question of what is that about? The conversation? That was very interesting and, in fact, one thing I love about all these are like I'm learning so much. Wait, I didn't take the money. I'm sorry, I cannot, we cannot say that that's, that's an in-house team. I cannot say that that's an in-house thing. In-house, that's commercial, but it's the same thing, right. So I'll say it's the same thing, because in foreign investor companies, obviously they usually have their own condition for investment.
Speaker 4:For instance, ccncc, 90% of the managerial and even the site rules are run by Chinese. You don't find Nigerians doing those stuff and they put it there as part of that clause. If you are doing a contract with CCECC now you are the governor of the state of Nigeria and you want to see CCECC. Wait, what is CCECC? China Civil Engineering it's a construction company. It's a Chinese construction company. Yeah, china Civil Engineering, ccecc, ccecc. Okay, so you can do a contract with them now. That's foreign investment. They have actually denied ideas of some certain jobs, right, like you can't do, like site managers, the main managerial positions in CCP. It's only done by Chinese right, so that's like our jobs being lost. But the Chinese government said look, you're going to take our loans right and do this construction. It has to be in the CCP. So that is an example. That is an example of construction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that an example of where the proposed policy to have those companies pay 10,000 or 15,000?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, exactly, and obviously a lot of people are out of that world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So I'm going to give you an example of what you just said. So, honestly, foreign influx of cash will come with some certain conditions. I'm going to be very frank with you. We're a company. As much as we're out to change the world, we need to make money and unfortunately, sometimes we may have to, you know, make some certain changes, or should I say sacrifices, to make that money, not Kana Yo, kana Yo kind of sacrifices.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, you know, kana Yo, kana Yo. I can't say I do. He makes sacrifices, oh wow.
Speaker 3:He's an agent, but generally you're always acting like this, or he's actually doing it, yeah.
Speaker 4:The thing with us is like we are doing a construction in Abidjan now. All the artisans are from Abidjan.
Speaker 4:We don't import artisans for our works. Maybe we should have, like, if I get a place where we have a gap in, maybe just foreign, yeah, just importation, because, as I said, some of our wood we have to import it Because they are not available. So rest assured, I mean in that regard, then generally I think the worst world for us as a company balance, that's our worst world. Balance, like economic, political operations, everything we are always trying, even our design, right In our design. Whenever we have design meetings we are trying to make design for clients. At the core of it we are like okay, how do we balance client demand with budget? How do we balance client demand with what is obtainable or with regulatory compliance? Right, because there are some. You know you call the Nigerian building code which informs some of our design. That means you cannot design literally. So even if you are Picasso, michelangelo, no one gives a damn in Nigeria. You must follow the made-up regulations for how to design and Paris for states, design Paris for states.
Speaker 1:You can see like our workforce essentially is balanced in everything we are doing Okay and so, in terms of the real estate industry in Nigeria, like, where do you see that industry going over the next maybe 10 years? I mean, you have 3D construction companies like the ones I showed you right Across the world. How quickly do you think that technology will reach Nigeria and how do you see the real estate industry developing?
Speaker 4:over time. So, as a construction company, oakview is part and parcel of the real estate industry in Nigeria. But you can't have real estate without construction Right and Nigeria's building model, because our goal long term is mass housing. In the long run, we want to do mass housing schemes with concrete and wood together. Maybe the concrete will be the main structural material for the house and then wood comes in as a step-fit. So mass housing is really like the core of our business strategy. So so, um, obviously, being like part and part of the industry, we understand the role we have to play and I'll go also to, as I said, to get into mass housing now, 3d construction.
Speaker 4:But the point is, in nigeria is funny thing with Nigeria is Nigeria can shock you, and I'm not just talking about like the crazy things that you see online. I'm talking about like the way technology is adopted in Nigeria. So there are some technology that can take years right like 10, 20 years, before it gets, before we actually start to adopt it and integrate it, and there are some technologies that we may. We sometimes, if you do your research well, we even beat developed countries in terms of adoption. Some, some developed countries, you know they could want to introduce laws or maybe regulations before they actually adopted to nigeria. Almost once you get rid of it, like I'm saying, like the crypto space now, and you're actually like I'll say, you blaze the trail in terms of the crypto space globally, like that is a part Blockchain technology.
Speaker 4:Blockchain technology is a part, right, so it's very hard to predict but, as I said, it can shock you Today. Now the country can, you know, drag its feet with adoption of new tech. Tomorrow it will shock you, but right now I'll say, as things stand, I don't know. Tomorrow things could change, but as things stand, it could take a while before 3D construction can really catch up Us now as a company at Oakview. I mean, if we could get a hand of that kind of technology, it could go a long way for us, because what that means is that we have somebody to differentiate us from the rest. So if I came to you as a Nigerian and I told you look, how would you like to have the first 3D built home in, say, lagos? There's something that's appealing to you, something that we can use to sell ourselves that, okay, oakville, construction is done in 3D. So this is Nigeria.
Speaker 1:Especially since there's a technology that cuts the cost of production Exactly.
Speaker 4:So at the start of that strap for cash, it will go a long way for us, you understand.
Speaker 3:How quickly do you see Oakview getting to that place where you guys are doing? Like, what is Oakview's timeline from where you guys are at now to mass producing the homes, like you mentioned earlier, especially with the integration of technology and at the rate technology is growing, I would say probably over the past 10 years I'd say technology has gone crazy. You know what I'm saying and, like you were saying, I feel like once Nigeria catches winds of some things technologically, it goes even crazier. You know what I'm saying. So, with that in mind, like what would you say the timeline is for Oakview to get to where it's looking at?
Speaker 4:There's something sorry. There's something I feel to mention when we ask the question, which is that most how do I say all technology, all the technology adoption is in Nigeria. It's given by the private sector, not the government, the government. Most times, the government will step in when they see people are making money from this thing or maybe it has a huge influence on people. That's the only time, like, whether it's social media, whether it's telecommunications, whether it's everything, even solar, like you know, I'm hearing that they want to come up with a solar policy. So most times, almost every time, tech adoption is driven by the private sector. As regards to where we see ourselves, what we want to do is we are pushing partnerships in the private sector. This is not really well known, so I guess this is privileged information for normal conversations.
Speaker 4:Oakview, as a company, as a policy, we do not pursue quote-unquote government contracts. We do not actually pursue government contracts. Most construction companies in Nigeria thrive on government contracts, but we quickly discovered that you're going to be an outlier. You're going to be someone who's pioneering certain construction techniques. You need to pursue it, um, privately. That's not to speak of the, the nigerian government or anything. It's just, um, you're going to want to make headway in the construction industry, as you got to take. I'm not talking about like you're just getting in contact from your brother who is a governor and then doing one shady job. I'm talking about, like, creating value using technology like Noble pointed out, like 3D manufacturing homes, right, that kind of technology. Most governments will not listen to you, right? So for us, we are driving partnerships in the private sector.
Speaker 4:For instance, you mentioned Omar Capital, which is one of our partners. Omar Capital is a company here in Nigeria. We are partners and again, also, we have, yeah, yeah, here in Nigeria, omar Capital. They have, they are a holding company. They are not like it's not like they're a holding company, not actually. No, they're not like a fundraising company. They're a holding company, right, but we got in bed with them because of their network right With the financial industry and ability to connect us right. So we are, we are going to meet you now. We can only tell you, okay. So we are going to meet you now. We can easily tell you okay, our partner is Ouma Capital in the town. So we sign an MOU actually in the works. We may sign an MOU in the works, ouma Capital in that regard. So they are asking you for sharing private partnership as a company.
Speaker 4:Okay, so the question you asked about where we see ourselves as a company and if we can also return to tech we want to be the drivers of tech in the construction industry, because I saw there was this interlocking laying machine right and imagine how that changed the world. What they're about, the government was saying we're praising it, obviously. What is something that we've been using in China for like how many years? Almost 12 years. So you can see like there's a long way to go right as regards innovation in the construction industry in Nigeria and I guess also most of West Africa.
Speaker 4:So our plan is basically to pursue private partnerships and we as a company decided not to set, oh, this limit or that limit as to where we want to go or where we want to actually, or where we want to achieve, because most times that doesn't have that good For us, at least for us. This is just our own personal opinion. I'm excited to say, look, we're going to actively pursue our goals and ambitions. I'm not going to set like timelines. What we can do is that we can say, by this time next year, we should not be calling ourselves, the startup, okay, so we set things in place that um drive us towards, um, where we are headed. But we don't set specific timelines because, from what we know, maybe it's different in the us or in nigeria certain time, like for companies, it's not, it's already the best.
Speaker 4:And you know, one thing can make someone change overnight. You know, imagine now from this interview, now, so, uh, the company in the us or in canada, okay, I like what these people are doing and decide to get embedded with us and then, uh, invest in, uh, some of our projects, our upcoming project. Imagine that would now mean that maybe we'll give ourselves a clear timeline. We will not be able to handle that level of growth. So we prepare ourselves that, look, tomorrow we could get a million dollar contract. What we do is we prepare for that million dollar contract. We don't say, oh, it will take us five years or three years, or, whilst understanding we need to have a timeline, like we as a company just decided, like first, we just pursue what we are pursuing right, seek private partnerships, seek, get a books and order right, and just allow, I guess, confidence to take over the rest, by this time next year, you guys should not be calling yourselves a startup.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really like the way you said that. But yeah, I think you also said something about foreign investment and taking on contracts from foreign companies and foreign investors, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 5:And.
Speaker 3:I would like to use that to bridge into the next question that I have for you. And it's like me, right? I was born here, born and raised in houston, you know I'm saying, but I personally would like to go back to nigeria and ultimately do work there in the space and in, like the construction space exactly.
Speaker 3:You know I'm saying so. It's like for me, being a nigerian american, how would, uh, how would another nigerian american or you know, whether they're in the UK or anywhere else, you know, as part of the diaspora in general, like what are some ways in which they could find themselves involved in that space, whether it be in construction, whether it be in real estate to any degree, and how?
Speaker 4:do you see that also helping the environment in ways that other foreign investment from, say, china and all that stuff probably wouldn't? What do you think essentially I would say, can you guys hear me? So essentially I'll speak, I'll reply to like foreign from the construction side of the question. Okay, so the most important thing is someone in the diaspora is like there's been a lot of push.
Speaker 5:Even governors in Nigeria.
Speaker 4:Most of them are now pushing front-direct investment. They're trying to tap into the diaspora community. You see it, with the Nabiya State, mr Alex Otin, the whole, oh, abia. Wherever you guys are in the world, come back and invest in ABIA. Right, I will make sure your investments are secure. I will make sure that whatever money you're putting in is protected from Israel, nigeria, anyhow.
Speaker 4:So the push generally, both from the sub-national national, even president, everywhere he's going, he's speaking about the exact same thing, same thing with even our private sector, like Tony Lumelu and a host of others. Whenever they go for these forums, they are charging in Nigerians outside. And it's not because it's not necessarily because we are strapped for cash, but it's necessarily because I don't want to say, I don't want to use the word fear, but in recent events, the whole Israel-Russia crisis, the Israel-Gaza crisis and the Russia-Nigeria crisis has shown that. That will open our eyes to the fact that, look, the best way to secure your country right is tapping the diaspora community. Currently, the diaspora community is saving 30 million dollars in remittances per year. That is more than the country's budget.
Speaker 4:So the money Nobu sends, the money Daniel sends, the money you guys are sending to us is more than what the federal government spends on its citizens. So we recognize that where the money is, it's in the diaspora, right, so there's no truth about it. Now, as we're tackling it, it's simply a case of knowing where and how to come to the kind of people you meet. I think it's also a matter of who you are partnering with. You see cases of people in the US, uk, canada trying to invest, like Nigeria is trying to invest, and we have very funny stories right, and most times because they do not use the right channels, okay, maybe you can say, maybe nobody can say, oh, because this guy is maybe good at living in Nigeria now.
Speaker 5:Leaves him money.
Speaker 4:Most of the people living in Nigeria just wants, like a more money in their head, or he will not, not like he wants to scam you, but he doesn't know how to, right. So I think, the same way. There's the restaurant community. So I think there should be like a community or like a channel for driving the restaurant investment Every like. Why is it that every city in the world, like you, can find a Nigerian community, but, like here in Nigeria, we can't have like a community that or a kind of immediate through which diasporan investment can coagulate or like can be crystallized, to push initiatives? So, maybe, if you're interested in construction, to push initiative. So, maybe, if you are interested in construction, right. Why can't we have like a system where, um, maybe like this is just me, uh, just this is just an idea, maybe, okay. Now what's happening? Um, the aspirant community, right. So what happened? Is we registered with this nigerian community, right. What happened is we registered with this nigerian gastronome? Uh, uh, maybe set up like and you guys have done right.
Speaker 4:So what that means is that you guys now have the opportunity to, in an unbiased system, look out what you want to invest in, not just based on, oh, because you know this person or because you've seen it on the internet, but essentially obtu as a company right in the construction industry, you have the opportunity to pick the guy or logo. Right, you have the opportunity to talk to you guys in a non-biased uh setup. Right, nothing like we didn't see what we are offering as value here in Nigeria. We just see what we have done. So you are not just investing because you heard this on the internet or whatever.
Speaker 4:I am looking at a situation where co-pupils would be able to and even if you don't have the money, you can easily connect with someone there outside the US that has the money. But just one push it to Nigeria. I don't necessarily have to be English in Nigeria To be a Ghanaian or a Kenyan. That's the most investment in Nigeria. So that's my own take on, you know, nigeria's media flow, media flow actually influencing the construction industry. That's my own take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So basically investing and making sure that there is some element of connection between the community outside and the community yeah.
Speaker 3:Building that media credit yeah.