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Healthcare in Africa is Broken | A Noble Conversation with Sir Ikechukwu Anoke
Join us on an inspiring journey with Sir Ikechukwu Anoke, a visionary entrepreneur who went from helping in his mother's restaurant in Enugu to making a name for himself in the entertainment and healthcare industries.
In this episode, Ikechukwu shares how his faith has been the driving force behind his career, offering an inside look at how his belief in God laid the foundation for launching Zuri Health. He also shares insights from his book, I Am Ikechukwu: The Vision Will Not Tarry, which chronicles his incredible journey and aims to inspire future generations.
Ikechukwu recounts his strategic shift from promoting music to becoming a healthcare entrepreneur, applying the same focus and precision that propelled Nigerian artists to success. He talks about spotting market gaps, learning from setbacks, and forming key partnerships to make healthcare more accessible across sub-Saharan Africa. The episode dives deep into the challenges of primary care, the lack of infrastructure, and the high cost of healthcare, painting both a sobering and hopeful picture of the African healthcare landscape.
We also explore how collaboration and innovation are crucial for transforming healthcare access. Ikechukwu discusses the need to break down silos, improve data sharing, and educate the public about the value of healthcare. He ends with a powerful call to action for Nigerians in the diaspora to lend their skills and resources, drawing comparisons to India's healthcare successes. Tune in for a conversation that not only highlights the current challenges but also offers a vision for a brighter future in Nigerian healthcare.
Note: This description was written partly with AI.
Welcome to the Noble Conversations platform. In case you've forgotten which I hope you've not, we're a platform that aims to build this Nigeria and society of our dreams. By doing what? By engaging in Noble Conversations with those who are making community and global impact. Today, we'll be having a Noble Conversation with Ike Truku Anoke on his journey from waiting tables at his mom's restaurant at age 10 in Enugu to success in the entertainment industry and success as an entrepreneur through Zuri Health. Entrepreneur through Zuri Health. So the book is called I Am Ike Chukwu. Let me ask who is Ike Chukwu? When you think of him, who is he?
Speaker 2:Well, the book is. I Am Ike Chukwu. The Vision Will Not Tarry. Ikechukwu is just a regular guy trying to fit in a regular world, who have been through a lot, but also feels that his story is important for tomorrow. And that's who Ikechukwu is.
Speaker 2:Ikechukwu is 40, a loving father of two girls, a husband to an amazing superhero, an entrepreneur, someone who loves God and someone who believes that I'm here for a purpose, and one of my visions, one of my, one of my mission is to be in the marketplace, do amazing things, and when people see those incredible, amazing things, they would say I want to serve the God he serves, to serve the God he serves.
Speaker 2:One of the very important things about you know kingdom entrepreneurs or people who believe, believers who do business, is that over time, we're very shy, if I may use the word, to come out and profess our faith. Why? Why is that? I don don't know a lot of people are I'm not a lot of people that you don't look around and see a lot of believers who come out and say, hey, um, I am doing this incredible thing, I'm a believer, um, but you see a lot of role models, business people who have flashy lifestyle, who you know, want to have, enjoy, fly private jets and whatever. And people you know I'm party and you know do a whole bunch of awesome things that they like to do. And people, people look at that lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Um I hardly see. So. Do you think it's because, like they see, okay, I've been this successful so far? If I talk about god or if I share the fact that I'm a believer, then that could affect the way people view me and then affect the way people consume whatever I'm selling, whether it's a product or whether it's entertainment. Do you think that plays a role in it?
Speaker 2:No, I think it's people who don't understand who God is that will think that way. Okay, because my experience has been different way. Because my experience has been different. The more I talk about how God supports me and how that at the foundation of what I'm building is God, the more I am solid in what I do and that's what God wants us to do. God wants us to be in the marketplace and glorify Him and say we worship God. And if anybody says I'm not going to support what you do because you worship God, then I don't want your support. I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2:I make no mistakes or pretenses about who I am. I make no mistakes or pretenses about who I am. I make no mistakes or something I want to, you know, be afraid to say that the god factor is center to what I am building at jury, health and center in my life. So why should I, why do I want to talk about something else that is not there? Yeah, not okay.
Speaker 1:So how did you, how did you develop that perspective? Because, um, some people you know that maybe there was a specific event that happened, um, where they were like okay, I'm building, whatever I'm building has to be for god, while some people it wasn't, really, it was just kind of okay over time. But how did you develop that perspective?
Speaker 2:Mine was over time Mine was over time Mine. I went through different things, went through a crisis, and I'm not going to preempt you. Since you bought the book, you might want to read it. The thing is that building Zuri Health is not just my dream. It is not just a father's promise to a daughter, because Zuri Health is named as my daughter. It is God's mandate for me, right? It is God saying I'm going to gift you this for you to use it to impact lives of millions of people who need access to affordable healthcare, and I'm going to make it special. I'm going to give you favor. I'm going to give you favor. I am going to open doors for you. And all these things are happening because God wants me to use it to transform lives, and that is it. That is it. There's a God factor and a massive, huge cloud of God factor in what we do at Zuri Health.
Speaker 1:So Ike Truku is a loving husband and father and a believer in God who is using Zuri Health to transform lives, and so when people see what you're doing, they could say, oh, I want to serve the god that he's serving. Is that, is that accurate?
Speaker 2:yes, that's very accurate okay.
Speaker 1:So when you decide, when did you decide to write this book and and what inspired you to say, okay, I want to write a book, and what do you hope it achieves as well?
Speaker 2:um, I was going to turn 40. I turned 40, and so, in the preparation of me turning 40, I wanted to put together my autobiography I figured that it was important that I told my story, um, and it was very important that I did that.
Speaker 2:So that's one. Number two is I also felt that you know, a lot of things have happened, I've lived a lot of lives and that perhaps my story could that. Perhaps my story could influence someone. My story could motivate someone, inspire someone. You know it was important to document, and I think leaders, business leaders, african leaders, people generally should learn to document. You know, write document. I loved reading obama's dreams of my father, um, and I figured that I should take more time to document about what I was going through.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, did you read the promised land as well? No, I haven't read that. Okay, I started. It is long, is long. Um, I think I'm almost halfway through, um, so okay, you talked about telling your story to inspire people. Part of your story, as I saw in the book, is that you started out waiting tables at your mom's restaurant in Enugu. How old were you when you started out? I was 10. 10. Okay, okay, and so how did that experience shape your approach to entrepreneurship and to life in general?
Speaker 2:I think that was my entry into entrepreneurship. I think my entry into entrepreneurship was Oweri Road. Oweri Road was where my mom's restaurant was, and the experience of a weary road was my entry into entrepreneurship. But I was solving a problem. So I I'm one of those who believe that entrepreneurship stems from a desire to fix a problem. It could be a small problem, it could be a massive problem, but at the core of entrepreneurship is problem solving. There's a need that we're trying to fix. So the need that I was going to fix was just, generally, we needed to earn more. There was hunger. There was hunger, yeah, and we needed to earn more. I felt my mom was overwhelmed, I felt my father wasn't in the space to do that and, as you know, the first child I figured it was my responsibility to step in and that was it. I got bitten by the entrepreneurship bug at then and I never left, 30 years later.
Speaker 1:And so you felt a sense of responsibility.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, okay. And in terms of the entrepreneurship ventures that you've explored, one of them is Playgroup. You know, in the entertainment business, the entertainment business, um, what inspired you or what, what prompted you to to get into the entertainment business with record label and live events and, uh, other aspects of, of play group?
Speaker 2:well, I would say that it started from me coming to Kenya. Actually, I would say, even before coming to Kenya, I was social prefect in Ferragomen College, potakot. In Ferragomen College, potakot. I used to organize social nights and I would invite people from FGGC, abunoma, different other schools to come through. And we will not just do that. We will set up what we called it was like a social night. We will set up, you know, gate fees, have people charge gate fees to come in. So I was not doing events even when I was 14, 15. Um got into university, joined the band called truly dad, where we are performing westlife songs, and then namdi has the and then the rest of York, and they used to pay us to come and perform For different nights.
Speaker 1:Were you singing.
Speaker 2:We're just miming, we're not singing. Mass communication night, whatever science night, and it was just us do you have any videos from when you were miming? No, but I think there's some pictures here and there. Soledad is a king for the lonely.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, I think I want to see some of those pictures if they're online or somewhere so we used to mime and perform something like that.
Speaker 2:So so right, this boy group westlife and yeah you know, westlife was the raving thing at that point, um, so we used to do westlife. So after that I joined I, you know, um, you know, when I joined, mtech came to. Mtech being a sort of entertainment company but focused on tech, selling content, entertainment content to telcos, selling that, putting that up on telcos and people were buying the content. So when I came to Kenya, I faced a huge challenge and the challenge I faced a huge challenge and the challenge I faced was, you know, lack of acceptance. Being in Nigeria was very difficult. There was a lot of stereotypes and music broke the barrier. We used music. I used music to break the barrier Because of what I did. You know, nigerian music took over Eastern Southern part of Africa in terms of promotions. So I was doing it to generate revenue for M-TEC because we're selling coloring backtones and ringtones I was doing it to. So from there I said you know what?
Speaker 1:I remember when you said ringtones, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I, I, I, you know. And I said you know what I could also do? I could also do events. And I said bring in the artists, bring in events. And that's how I got into events. And I said if I could make music popular, I could as well do a record label.
Speaker 1:And I did a record label at that point and it was very successful, at a point of successful and yeah, until I decided to focus on doing something else did you ever consider, uh, performing as in like making actual, whether it's music or what, miming, whatever, like professional, like did you ever consider doing that professionally, or was it just a thing that you did um in college for fun?
Speaker 2:it was the thing I did in university for fun. I never considered it, although I have one rap that is for my. My name is name is IK. I'm the real G, Keeping it real like slap to the face. You know my peer degree On the real and that is for my kids. When they diss me. So I have my second daughter. Zara has a stage name which I'm never going to disclose because she will arrest me, and she uses that stage name to you know, write these songs for me.
Speaker 1:So with this song. It's like she's dissing you yeah.
Speaker 2:These songs for that. So so, and Zuri is a producer and hype hype girl. So, zuri, will you know, set it up, hype girl and producer. And Z suzuri, will you know, set it up.
Speaker 1:Hi, big girl, I'm producer and sarah will be on the mic dissing, dissing me. Ah, this is serious, this is serious. Serious beef back and forth, uh, no, no, that's, that's funny. Um so, when you think about the entertainment business, right, what's the most difficult thing? I know you talked about stereotypes when you first moved to Kenya and then music breaking that barrier In the entertainment business itself. What would you say is the biggest challenge you faced, from your perspective, would you say, is the most is?
Speaker 2:the biggest challenge you faced from your perspective. I'm not that rugged to do music. I'm not the great manager. I don't know. I don't have the patience to manage talent. I don't have the patience at all.
Speaker 1:That is the most difficult.
Speaker 2:you know people to manage. I don't have the patience to do that. I don't have the I don't understand. I don't understand a lot of things. So the other challenge was that I didn't have the money to do music. If I had the money, with what I know about music, even with the little I had, I was the most successful music label in Kenya, in Zambia, in Uganda, at some point in Uganda at some point.
Speaker 2:If I had money in it then I would have probably been the biggest record label on the continent, but so I didn't have the funding for it and the time also, the lifestyle around it, you know, later on became a challenge for me, because of that is not who I am, what I wanted to be, um, so these were the challenges that I, you know I can say so what made you I mean being that huge in Kenya what made you that successful, even with the fact that, you know, even the funding was not as available as you would have hoped it would be?
Speaker 2:I studied music very well. I studied promotions. I figured out the layers in terms of monetization. I could understand monetization from multiple angles. I could understand monetization from synchronization. I understood monetization from you know digital elements. Remember, my background is digital selling coloring back tools and selling ring tools. I knew how to make music popular. I understood it from the product development process, which means I was an art to the music released. I didn't release any music that did not have three legs to it which is a synchronization leg, which is good for movie or good for an art. I didn't have music.
Speaker 1:What's a synchronization leg?
Speaker 2:Synchronization leg is I would license a Netflix the music to use for a movie, or I would license a Coca-Cola the music to use for an ad. That was synchronization, and I had a sync leg to it so I could do sync. I also had, which was very important, which was very, very, very, very important. So, apart from the synchronization and digital content, like it must be, pop, it must be what the streets Wanted to listen to. So yeah, and for every. So if I had the three legs done, I also had the network to plug it. I knew which radio stations to make the music power play on. I knew what djs to send the music to and the influence the djs and the radio stations will have in terms of crystallizing a huge hit. So I I studied it through science. I knew what to do. It was very clear, right? Every artist I knew from Nigeria, it was the same template, right? So I could make anybody big.
Speaker 2:Literally anyone any genre, from Omaumi doing alt flavor to bracket. Bracket was so big bracket, yeah big in eastern central africa that they weren't even known in lagos. Right, they were so massive that they weren't even known in lagos. People were wondering. I went by the bench calling me to see who are these guys, how come they are. I'm in kenya and everybody's talking about yuri, yuri and yuri. Yeah, we don't know these guys how did you do it?
Speaker 1:I'm with you, my yuri yuri, right, so we knew what it is.
Speaker 2:We knew what we could do. We knew what it you know, so to his science. It was a template. That happened. I could do it anything, any time I could plug music.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you studied it down to the details, down to the specifics, and I think of you know, like other endeavors, it's the same approach that it takes to be successful, right Like breaking things down to the science and saying, okay, what do I need to know to make progress in this specific area? I remember in secondary school, I was playing I played soccer football on the school team and I wasn't the best, in fact, and I wasn't the best In fact, I shouldn't have even made the starting 11. But every day I'll be watching videos practicing. Okay, like, because I play defense, so I'll be watching videos practicing daily, daily, daily, daily, daily. And eventually I made the team, but I wasn't.
Speaker 1:I never considered myself the best player, but it sounds like for you, you saw this as an opportunity to. Okay, let me learn as much as I can about this so I can make the most impact and study it, and study it, and study it. And it sounds like you're doing the same thing at Zuri Health too. So how did you go from entertainment to providing health services, you know, that are affordable and accessible through Z health in sub-saharan africa?
Speaker 2:well, that is my next book. Um, I've already started plotting it in my head, but um, so I? It's not just that I. So studying is one thing, but there's another thing that is extremely important, which is grit and determination, even if I don't watch in a particular field.
Speaker 2:If you called me now and I saw that I want to get into you know I want to get into snail farming, I wouldn't be surprised that in two years I'll probably be one of the well-known snail farmers. And it's not because I would go and study snail farming and learn all the things around snail farming. It's because in everything I decide to do, I give it the best, I am selfless and determined in everything I decide to do. So one thing that that does for anything is that it leads you towards a path of excel in everything that you do. When you sow that seed of determination, that seeds of grace, then most likely you're going to succeed. Um, and I always you my strategy decide.
Speaker 2:My strategy is to build from a point of failure, which is I assume that everybody has failed at this and this is why they failed and begin to solve problems around failure, which also means that I anticipate failure. I could see when I'm building, I plan scenarios in my head to say this could happen. When I was doing Z, doing zoom health, I asked myself what if the government woke up monday and said that there will not be any telemedicine? Everybody, if you want to see a doctor go to the hospital. If I had a business that did only tell the medicine, that business would collapse right.
Speaker 2:So I need to build around that right. I need to figure out how to build around that all the time. How do I recruit customers? Do I have the marketing budget to come and be doing ads to be able to get customers? How do I do that? So it's very instructive that when you look at how's your health structures itself, the partnerships that we build, we'll build partnerships with people who have trust equity, a lot of trust equity that when they speak and say, do this, you do it not because Zuri Health is tied to it, but because the brand is tied to it. And by the time we associate with those brands over and over again, it makes more sense because you now begin to view us as credible, because we do not have the money to buy the credibility or invest in building the goodwill and credibility they would have had at that time. So these are part of the things you know that are how we build, or how I see myself building.
Speaker 1:So, when you explore anything that you're trying to do, you start from the point of failure and say, okay, what could go wrong and what has gone wrong in the past for people that are doing this? Um, and then build from there to basically ensure whatever you're doing against future failure in those ways. Yeah, um. Now, when you you talked about whatever you decide to do, you do it well. You know there's, there's a you know scripture in the bible where it says um in whatever you're doing, do it as if you're doing it unto the lord right. Um. How do you decide? Because you can't do everything well and I feel like, especially in today's society, there's so much to choose from in terms of potential career options, potential things to explore, but for you, how do you choose what to focus on and say I am going to do this and I'm going to do this well?
Speaker 2:well, um, it's, it's it. You know, I can look at it from a couple of angles. Um, I always see you sit down and act. You know, I, I, it must be something I'm passionate about. It must be something that I see a gap in and a gap could be. A gap does not mean that a lot of people are not doing it Right. A gap could mean that I have seen that they are doing it, but if I did it this way, I could do better. It must be something I am extremely passionate about. I need to have something I like and, finally, it must have impact. I'm somebody who is very keen on solving problems. There are a lot of things to do that might not really solve much problems, but I would like to, you know, focus on something that could, you know, potentially solve problems for a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it's a combination of passion where there's a gap and where you can make the most impact in terms of problem solving. Thank you very much. Okay. So, zuri Health when you look at the state of healthcare in Nigeria and across the African continent, in Nigeria and across the African continent, like it doesn't seem like, especially when it comes to like primary care services, it doesn't seem like it's as robust as it could be. From your perspective, what is the state of healthcare and healthcare services on the African continent as a whole?
Speaker 2:Two things care.
Speaker 1:services on the african continent as a whole, um two things um africa healthcare.
Speaker 2:Africa is broken. It's broken and it is also a symptom of our poverty. How so? You know, 50% of the continent lives on less than a dollar a day. We are very poor, and even without corruption. If, if you removed corruption and said all the governments in africa, all the resources that you've generated without corruption, invested in health care, we're so far behind that it would amount to a lot. It would help, but it wouldn't amount to a lot. It would help, but it wouldn't amount to a lot.
Speaker 2:So, from a skill set perspective, we don't have the skill set right. We don't have, you know, the specialists for some very serious ailments. We don't have them. They don't exist on the continent. Right, we don't have the money into research, drug discovery. We don't have any of those. We don't even have equipment in the hospitals. We don't have infrastructure. Okay, so these are challenges. Then there is a lack of education, basic education around health for people. So our primary healthcare system, which it actually should be our savior because it's very big on preventive healthcare, doesn't exist. There are local governments in Nigeria where there's no functional hospital and when you walk into the nearest hospital, it is so broken that you've been there, you fall sick. If you are not sick and you spend one hour in the hospital, you come out with something. These are the challenges, right?
Speaker 2:The cost of health care is another big thing. Because we don't have access to insurance, the actual cost of health care is very expensive, right? So so how do you tell somebody who earns a thousand shillings, 30 000 shillings a month as a salary, with three kids, to pay for doctor consultation of five thousand there, how can they afford that and afford to feed and afford to pay rent and afford transportation, sometimes the cost of transportation from your home to the nearest healthcare center? You can't afford it. So it's broken. It's completely broken.
Speaker 2:Almost maybe 98% of households in Africa are one major Chronic condition From bankruptcy. If one family Gets a case of cancer, it's done. They will sell everything Straight into poverty, right? If somebody had to be hospitalized For three months, it's done, and that's the challenge. If somebody had to be hospitalized for three months, it's done, and that's the challenge. The insurance cost of insurance, they can't afford to pay. Even when they can afford to pay, it's a struggle to combine. Should I pay for food, should I pay for roof over my head, or should I pay for health insurance and even when they do pay and get the government insurance, it doesn't cover for much because there's absolutely very little things that you can find in a government hospital.
Speaker 2:Our situation is dire. Our situation is dire and this is what we are building around to saying how can we leverage smart and non-smart solutions to ensure that people get access to healthcare, the most basic access? So if Nobu has to sit in his room with his phone better smart or non-smart and for Teti Naira to be able to get first-level medical information, information, consultation from a doctor, then it's easier for noble, and that is what we're trying to do. How can we create opportunities, leveraging technology but innovative financial solutions for people to access healthcare from a mass scale perspective, especially from preventive healthcare? And when we see that physical, that digital might not it's great, but false gap, we decided to combine it with our mobile clinic solution, which is Zero Health is investing in mobile clinics, which is the hospital on wheels, call it like a level two hospital, dental, optical labs, x-ray To have this mobile clinics be available to go around local governments, underserved communities, to provide access to healthcare, because I was in New York and in the Harlem areas I saw a smaller version of our mobile clinics, packed in the streets of New York and people were going there to get basic things like cuts, bruises, you know, vaccinations, basic things done for them and those. And I was thinking about it, I was like in this, an area where there are hospitals everywhere Okay, so, so so and specialists In fact, one of them was back very close to Mount Sinai and I kept asking myself you know, I'm asking myself in my village, you know Borough Hossa In my village.
Speaker 2:You know Bor, in my village, in Uburohoza, apart from the joint Presbyterian hospital, that I hear there's been no power, electricity in that hospital for going to two years and that most people, I don't know, don't have doctors or nurses. People have to travel two and a half hours or three hours to Abakaliki to be able to see a doctor. Why, why? So my uncle in Chiriago is a good son. Well, they are waiting for when he can be stronger enough so that they can put him in a bus to take him two and a half hours to the general hospital in Abakaliki and also plan for who will go with him, because it's likely that before they will see him there it will be three days.
Speaker 2:That is broken healthcare. There's nothing more broken than that. And we're not in a war zone in my village. So think of that woman in Zanfara. Think of that woman in Borno state, think of that woman in Keddi. Think of them. Think of people in communities or states in Nigeria that don't have 10 doctors. Think of them. Think of them. Think of people in communities or states in nigeria that don't have 10 doctors. Think of them.
Speaker 1:Think of how broken and dire our situation is and you mentioned, take away corruption right, even if we were to invest in those systems. We are so far behind. Yeah, that so like what is it because?
Speaker 2:I mean is people, people can easily look at that and say, oh, it's corruption is because government is not doing it if you took all the money you have to build rules, because dr noble will not get and stay in Zafira where there is no rule to electricity. Dr Nobu will decide to become a blogger, a doctor blogger, in Lagos than go to Zafira. You know, it's the realities that even that there are doctors who are in Lagos who are unemployed. There are unemployed doctors in Abuja. There might even be an unemployed doctor in Enugu, but they will not go To Borohozara when there is no infrastructure, where there is no power, where there is no water, where there are no roads, where there's no, you won't go there. Where would you live? So you ask yourself should I go there now? When you combine that and in some cases, insecurity, right insecurity, if you're a parent today and there was the only area where there was opportunity a doctor, your daughter, you say I'm sending my doctor to borneo state to go and serve or to go and become a doctor in the whatever, how I'm sending them to zanfara where there are issues.
Speaker 2:Now add kidnapping. It's hard because all the things that you need to build infrastructure, when you look at developed countries, everything is built in. There's power, there's water, there are roads, there are, you know systems, you know you fall sick, you call ambulance. An ambulance picks you up, takes you to the hospital and maybe there are a lot of wait times. Right, you see a GP and they say maybe an x-ray will take you three weeks to get an x-ray, but if your situation is very bad, then there is some sort of you know, know, I would say some sort of system. We don't have any. We don't have any to even make that as well a large percentage of the medication we consume is fake.
Speaker 2:Where do you want to begin from? Where do you want to begin from? Where do you want?
Speaker 1:to begin from, what percentage would you say is fake?
Speaker 2:It's a huge percentage. I don't want to throw numbers that I'm not I haven't, you know, verified but the huge percentage of the medication we'll consume is fake.
Speaker 1:Right? And when you say fake, is it that they don't work? Is it that they are not the right brand? What about it?
Speaker 2:It's because they are fake medication. It's not whether they are brand names or generics, it's just they are fake medication.
Speaker 1:Placebo.
Speaker 2:So when you use chalk to do Panadol, if you want thick 100 times, it won't work because it doesn't have the ingredients to be Panadol, regardless of whether it's brand name or generic, If you chalk over it it's fake.
Speaker 1:Right. How do these medications actually get to patients? Is it that there's no, like the regulatory bodies are not screening them? Is it like? What is? What is the issue?
Speaker 2:regulation. You see, regulation tries to beat in nigeria and the truth is because, for regulation to be super effective, regulation, regulatory company, regulatory bodies in developed countries are well funded.
Speaker 2:They are funded with technology access. So tell me how NAVDAG wants to come to Uburohoza. Tell me how NAVDAG wants to come to my village to know that Okoro Pharmacy down my corner is selling fake medication. How, how do they want to know, how, Unless do they want to know how, Unless something crazy happens? And how do they want to know, Perhaps their zonal office in Ebony State in Abakaliki does not have functional vehicles?
Speaker 1:Perhaps the zonal office?
Speaker 2:doesn't have functional vehicles and there's nobody to be posted there because they don't have staff, how are they supposed to know? How are they supposed to know? How would they track customs? Oh, it's dysfunctional, right, the system is broken in many ways because some of that could be very efficient, but the customs, you know, that could be very efficient. But are the customs, you know, are they very efficient? Are they stopping the getting of medications, medications coming, are they stopping that? Are they? You know, and we know that, drug registration how many medications in nigeria that people are consuming are registered by navdak? How many of? How many of them? How many of them? That's a huge chunk of them that are not registered. Right, but an important, yeah, let me go to Turkey, I'll bring this brand by the time. I put it here, put it here, we'll buy it. It was. They come to the pharmacy and they say, ah, and my stomach. Ah, there's this new malaria drug. Now, that's the one that is really now here. Is it you got? You don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:Does NAVDAC have local you know like local governments, because I think NAVDAC is on the national level. Do they have sub-national entities on the local government level?
Speaker 2:I don't know if they have at the local government, I think they could have at the states, and it just shows you that a regulatory body like NAVDAC needs to be everywhere regarding health right and the truth is, and that's why I said without corruption, the cost of getting that done is very high.
Speaker 2:It's expensive. The government that needs to get that done needs to also remember they need to pay salaries, they need to build roads in it. It's we again cut out the waste, cut out of corruption, we'll still run at a deficit. We'll still run at the deficit. So, from a balancing perspective, you know it's hard, it's really hard, and and I and I, and really hard. And the more I get involved in policymaking, I begin to see that our politicians are bad, yes, but the problem is sometimes it's beyond them. It's really beyond them, right? Because when you sit down and think about the work that needs to be done, the structure right, what you need to fix, how you need to fix it, the people you need to fix it, the ecosystem of how medications come into Nigeria, how they register them, what you need to do, all the things you need to plug, it's hard. It's hard.
Speaker 2:The airports do you have good scanners to know if I'm coming with my, my, my traveling bag? I've bought, you know, 40 boxes of some expensive medication that I feel that it's easier for me to buy from india and come and sell in my, in my, in my shop. Does the scanners dictate that? And look you say why did you import this? We have a fundamental problem. There are a lot of issues around healthcare that we can spend one year talking about it. It's a lot to unpack. Bringing that back a little, I would say that we have challenges around primary health care, accessibility and affordability. You know those two are very big issues, even in underserved communities, and we need to figure out how to resolve them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean regular food inspections, where they could show up at any time. But this is, I think, on the local government, county level, where they could show up anytime, inspect. Is it sanitary enough? Do they meet these guidelines? They could show up anytime, inspect. Is it sanitary enough, do they meet these guidelines? And so I was asking that because I'm like, if NAVDAC has, or any other regulatory body has, something similar to where they have regular inspections of these pharmaceutical establishments, to say, okay, we're going to do surprise inspections once a year or once a month, whatever it is, inspections once a year or once a month, whatever it is, they might be able to curb some of those, at least get rid of some of those medications that are fake.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm thinking about the fact that if you take away corruption, we still have a huge problem and there's still a lot to be done. How long do you think it would take? Let's say, obviously this is in a perfect society, because we don't live in a perfect world. But let's say, corruption ended. There was no single you know corruption ever. How long do you think it would take to get from where we are now to the desired state, to bridge that gap?
Speaker 2:okay, I like the fact that you used the desired state and you're not comparing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I would say, how much do you think our national budget is and compare that with how much universities spend in clinical research in developed countries? We just know that we can't compete. So if it's to ensure that we have doctors and feed them well, basic equipments to provide for primary health care, focus on preventive health care. Ncds, spread of NCDs, lifestyle you know, diabetes, hypertension if we can work on those we'll get our people much healthier and we'll begin to, you know, see how we could, because that's why I see desired could be. We might want to say we want to be like India or the US or the UK. We can't. It's not a fair comparison.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a fair comparison.
Speaker 2:But how can we ensure that anybody in every local government can access some basic level of healthcare? That would be a desired place to start, that we can access basic healthcare at convenience, that we can access basic healthcare at convenience, that my uncle can go?
Speaker 1:to a hospital in my village and see a doctor. So, when you think about that, how would you divide the responsibilities, specifically within the healthcare sector, between government? Well, when I say government, I mean local government, state government, federal government and then private citizens like you.
Speaker 2:Like how would you divide the responsibilities for transforming it into the desired state? It's a collective responsibility. You know, collective responsibility. I can't say you take 20%, you take 30%. It's hard.
Speaker 2:Governments need to do its part by providing enabling framework, regulation, policy direction. Security yeah, building infrastructure we need to do our part in terms of innovation, and you know all. Band together structure we need to do our part in terms of innovation, and you know all. Band together Collaboration stop building in silos. Data interoperability there's so many things that I feel that we all need to put together and start building together, because what that does is that it helps us tackle the challenges around health care together. I tell that to other health tech companies when they ask me you're always open to partnering with everyone, even your competitors. I said yes, because all of us added together multiply us by two. We're still inadequate, not enough to deal with the issues around health care on the continent. You can't fix it. All of us can't all fix it. So why can't we collaborate together? The market is massive. We can't. We should come and start doing health tech, because we can't fix all the a lot of issues to be dealt with. Let's more, come in and let's start to handle and tackle these issues together. So so it's very collaborative.
Speaker 2:We all need to first of all understand, in my opinion, this basic principle Healthcare is a fundamental right. Everybody needs access to affordable healthcare. Two healthcare and education are the two most important things in life Healthcare and education right. We must provide life, healthcare and education. Right. We must provide people with healthcare and education. Three healthcare, education and, I will say, nutrition, food right. These three key things are fundamental rights to life. People need to have healthcare, education and need to feed right. These are three things and they're all interconnected. And the four is that we are all stakeholders. Everybody is an equal stakeholder right, so we are all stakeholders into the you know fight. You know the journey or the quest to ensure that we have access to affordable health care, so we are all stakeholders. That that that would be. That would be me listing out what I would consider. You know the important steps that people need to know as we band together into, you know, confronting issues around health care what is something you wish more people knew about this entrepreneurship journey that you are on, specifically within healthcare?
Speaker 1:maybe something that people didn't really you think most people don't know, but you wish more people knew healthcare is the most difficult.
Speaker 2:I've sold a lot of things. I'm a good salesperson by all standards. Healthcare is the most difficult thing to sell. Healthcare is the most difficult thing to sell. I feel that if I was selling if I was selling weeks, I would sell more. I feel that people are very difficult when it comes to health. I feel that one of the things that needs to support digital health is education. Anybody who wants to build around digital health needs to focus very, very, very heavily on building around healthcare information and education.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that healthcare as a product is difficult to sell? Why? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:It is because people don't understand healthcare People the way healthcare is communicated to people is very hard and harsh. Two is people are poor and healthcare for somebody who is relatively healthy and young and doesn't show any signs is not a lot of priority. I can have a leg, yeah, and that leg pain is very painful, but it's not a priority for me to go and get it checked Right, because if I need to think of paying my rent, think of feeding, I'd rather feed and do all those than go and check my leg, and maybe I have a very big problem with my leg. So that is how healthcare is seen.
Speaker 2:So it's difficult to sell, so the fact that it's expensive, and also there's the element of religion, which unfortunately plays a very difficult role in health in in sub-saharan africa. We're very religious people, so you know, people say, I know, that's not my portion, god forbid, that's not what god said. You know, oh know.
Speaker 1:So that could also be a challenge so when approaching I like the fact that you brought that up, because when approaching people in terms of health, education, understanding that there are some religious undertones that can make it difficult to reach them how do you balance it with making them feel like you acknowledge okay they are, they are religious perspective, but at the same time, this is a real issue that needs to be addressed regarding your health.
Speaker 2:I look at it from a couple of angles. The first one is storytelling, the way to communicate. You need to make healthcare communication less, less, less complicated, and that's why people like apropos doctor are doing an incredible job of it, because the way they are communicating healthcare, simplifying the communication, is very important and they're getting a lot of conversions, a lot of people you know so, so that that whatever is very important okay, okay, simplification, okay for you.
Speaker 1:What is something you wish? More people knew about you that they don't but I'm a very shy person ah, you shy, I am a very very, very shy person, very shy. I wish people knew that so okay, tell me about that. How are you shy but one? You're able to speak at places like world health summit, or you are able to run an entertainment business, which requires you if I know if it was entertainment, even zuri health requires you to constantly be around people or speaking to or with people Like how, tell me about that.
Speaker 2:I think it's because I perform a lot. A lot of things are performance. So I remember when I started my global MBA, I rooted in my whatever that I'm a very shy person, painfully shy person. People are like, nah, this guy you're not shy Because in class I'm asking questions, but when they go for the social engagements they don't see me. Where's Ike? He's in his room, he's alone. When people are going for lunch, I'm sitting alone at the corner, I feel like. But this guy was asking so for me. Me I've.
Speaker 2:Also, because I was confused for a very long time like how can I say I am a shy person? How am I? You're very shy? I'm like, no, I'm not shy, but I figured that when it comes to my duties, I can perform. I can like this conversation, I can finish having this conversation like this guy, very engaged, switched on you know whatever guy, and the next moment you see me somewhere and I'm with my bag at one corner alone, like you know. So, yeah, I wish people knew I'm a very, very, extremely shy person. So, yeah, I wish people knew I'm a very, very, extremely shy person.
Speaker 1:So when you go up to speak on stages like that, do you get nervous?
Speaker 2:Yes, I do, and I switch into my performance mode and I perform.
Speaker 1:How do you switch into it? The reason I'm asking all these questions is because I can relate to an extent not completely, but to an extent I switch into it.
Speaker 2:because how do I switch into it? I snap myself into it. I just tell myself ike, relax, you know your work, you know how to do your job, you know how to pitch, you know how to engage people.
Speaker 1:Just go ahead and do it. Okay, how long did it take you to get to that place? Because I think sometimes let me try and see if I can differentiate between the two but I feel like sometimes people are nervous about whether I'm speaking, let's say, for example, on a stage, because one they don't know fully, they don't understand fully their work, or they don't know their work too well, and other times you may know your work but you're still shy. But then you have to switch into that performance mode and tell yourself I know this, I know, you know um for you. How long did it take you to get to the point where you felt like you knew your stuff, like and you know that you know your stuff like they wake you up from sleep, you?
Speaker 2:can talk about it. I put it this way that I'm a very confident person, extremely confident person, but I'm also very shy. I don't know how that works. Self, when it comes to my work, I believe I am confident, I believe I can defend what I do, but I'm a shy person. That when you remove that work Right, when you take work out of the equation.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't know how to function. I would be shy. I would be on my phone, I would look down, I would stay in a corner. That's me. So I don't have performance anxieties.
Speaker 1:I don't okay, that makes sense, that makes sense. So, when it comes to the work, no performance anxiety.
Speaker 2:But once you take that out, once you take the work out, okay I can relate to an extent.
Speaker 1:Um so we've talked about niger. So we've talked about Nigerian healthcare. We've talked about healthcare on the African continent. Where do you see Nigerian healthcare in the next 10 years?
Speaker 2:Currently going down. There's nothing in fact. It's not hopeful With the policies the government in place. It's not hopeful With the brain drain. It's not helpful. It needs a massive change. I don't know. I feel the next five years we will really struggle with all the pharma companies leaving cost of medication inflation. Things are going to be very difficult and challenging around healthcare. So I don't have a very optimistic 10-year vision around healthcare in Nigeria. Around healthcare in Nigeria, I would rather say that I know that a lot of tech companies or health tech companies will grow, will try and fix, try and get into the space of solving some of those issues. I pray for them to be reasonably successful doing that, yeah, and that's what Am I having? Hope that our healthcare system will become better in the next 10 years? No, and that is the reason why we need to. There's a lot of work for us to do because, quite on the contrary, there will be regression in healthcare within that period.
Speaker 1:What role can Nigerians around the world, Nigerians in the diaspora, play?
Speaker 2:Very good question. They should look at what India did. Nigerians should stop building hotels in Nigeria and build hospitals, send money to equip hospitals. The Indian healthcare system was built by Indian doctors, indian medical professionals, who were exposed to the US, exposed to to europe, and came back and said listen, I want to replicate that in india and see how it's come. You know, coupled with government policies around, you know, intellectual property around medications and so helped fuel the boom, the indian healthcare. I think it's what we need to figure out. It needs to be a n Nigerians in the diaspora needs to think a bit more around investing in health care and not necessarily having to be a doctor to do that. So if I had a lot of money, you know, and I said, I could find a couple of friends and say can we invest in building a great hospital focused on research in this area and see what that can do in terms of helping to to grow health.
Speaker 1:That would be my suggestion yeah, but thank you, I mean, I, I really, I really appreciate. Oh yeah, come, come, come, come, come. I want to tell you something. Come and say something. If you got value from that noble conversation, let us know in the comment section below and let us know what you liked. But don't stop there. Oh, don't stop there. Share this video with someone else you think will also get value from this. Don't be selfish, don't be sad, because if you share it with someone else, you think will also get value. What that does is it helps us reach more people with the same value that you've received. That's one. Two it also gives us more visibility to bring on more guests that you would enjoy listening to and getting insights from, and so let's go, come, join us, comment and share. Let's go.