Bike Sense

From Smithers to Telkwa with Allan Cormier

• BCCC - Peter Ladner • Season 1 • Episode 1

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The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia. Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca. Please join us.

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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Fight T, the Beastie Cycling Coalition's podcast where we talk about all things related to cycling advocacy, education, and safety in BC. I'm your host, Peter Ladner. I'm the chair of the board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. Today, we're going to talk about one of BC's many successful off-road safe routes for cyclists and other vulnerable road users. This is, by the way, our very first podcast. And our featured guest today is Alan Cormier from Smithers. And I'm going to begin by just asking Alan to tell us a little bit about himself, and then we'll get straight into his project.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Peter. It's a privilege to be here. Well, Alan Cormier from Smithers, I'm retired after a very enjoyable career as a barber, which means I'm got to meet a lot of people and still connected with lots of folks. I've always been very interested in uh community projects and have been involved with several over the years in in Smithers here. I'm also a fan of cycling. That's my preferred choice of transportation. Um if I have a choice between a car or a bicycle, I'm on a bicycle.

SPEAKER_01:

So, Alan, I'm here in Vancouver. How does it work cycling at Smithers this time of year or in the winter months?

SPEAKER_02:

Winter months are challenging because you have a lot of icy road conditions. So I don't cycle in the winter. Some folks do. They put the studded tires on and go for it. I find it's I'd rather walk than cycle.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, let's talk about the trail from Smithers to Telqua, which is the project of your group Cycle 16, where you're the president. And tell us just why why do you want to do this route? I know that we'll talk a little bit sooner about soon in soon about uh where it's at now. But when you started it or when somebody started it, how did it all happen? Why why build such a trail?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, this goes back to 2002, the first attempt for a trail. It was a grant from the village of Telqua uh$4,000, I believe, to look at a study for a trail linking Smithers to Telqua.

SPEAKER_01:

Why does anybody want to go to Telqua? Why did you want to go to Telqua?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, for one, Telqua's a pretty spot, but Telqua is a um it's uh what would you call it? I have to think on my fly here.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a village, officially. I know that.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a village. Everyone who lives there, most people who live there work in Smithers or play in Smithers or shop in Smithers. So it's it's a the word escapes me.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like a suburb, I think is the word you're looking for.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, they wouldn't like to hear it that way, yes. But but but it is a commute, commuting community. People live there, enjoy living there, but they commute to Smithers. And so that that's one factor, one of the reasons I think the village wanted to uh promote this trail, and and a group was formed at that time. And at that time they looked at following the river. There's the Bulkley River flows from Telqua through Smithers, thinking that it would be the most scenic route, um, which would attract more tourists, and looking at it from that angle. Um, and that's one thing that telqua is constantly looking for is to improve their um tax base. And uh and and so they um they looked at that. But in 2002, it didn't go very far because, as you can imagine, following the river meant going in front of most people's properties, and people buy river frontage to enjoy the river, not cyclists going in front of their between their house and and so on. So it didn't fly. Uh and so it got put on the shelf until about 2015.

SPEAKER_01:

Was there uh some kind of trail that people used, or if people wanted to cycle, would they have to be out on Highway 16? I it's about 12 kilometers, right?

SPEAKER_02:

It's about 12 kilometers, Highway 16, or there is a um a gravel road connecting on the other side of the river. You'd have to cross a train bridge to get to that road, and people do use it, but if you think about folks crossing train bridges, uh it's not a very safe uh or or desirable circumstance. So um when it was you know it was put on on on hold or just put on the shelf in 2015, uh there was some renewed interest, and then the focus was let's stay close to the highway. Um and the number one reason shifted from tourism to a safe transportation route, and that's what uh made a big difference in our success was that shift. You know, uh it appealed to a lot more people, whereas uh a scenic route looking for tourists that's a small market, but um transportation, uh you know, uh commuting possibilities, uh that really uh changed the whole picture. And and people were cycling on the highway, but it's not a very safe circumstance.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I noticed that you had a tragedy where somebody was killed on that highway, and that was a bit of a I guess a bit of an incentive for the project to get moving.

SPEAKER_02:

It certainly was a factor. Uh, and there were several accidents. There was that one that you're referring to, but others were people were seriously injured. Yeah, so with our you know, prior this the accident, we we were well underway with our plans and that when that did happen, but our surveys that brought us uh from 2015 forward, the number one reason whenever we survey folks for support for the trail is safety, and that includes truckers, people that use the highway from a commercial point of view, they they feel a lot more comfortable having a separate pathway.

SPEAKER_01:

So you've you've got a three-phase project, and it will be a multi-use path for cyclists and people walking and hiking along the route. And tell me where you are now. I I understand you've you've hit some kind of a milestone, as they say, or you've you find you've reached something that's pretty significant.

SPEAKER_02:

We have, yeah. We're we're delighted with that. So we we design we uh had our trail designed to the BC Active Transportation Guidelines, which brings it to a level where folks that uh with different abilities can utilize it. And so it's not just a cycling trail, it's walking, it's uh folks with scooters or other means, and so it it really will appeal and is useful for a wide variety of folks. We we we did design our trail to be uh completed in three phases. Phase one will be complete uh this spring. It was almost finished, but winter caught up with us. So there's just a few things left to be done. One is painting a center line, but there's some signage, some shoulder work that has to be completed. So we're planning a grand opening celebration of phase one. And phase one takes us about four kilometers, so it's a it's a third of our final destination. It does take us to a point um next to a large trailer park. There's 94 homes there. There's also several rural homes in that area, and crossing the highway, you connect with a whole network of roads that are that connect to some really nice bike trails in the Balkway Valley. So it's in itself is a success and a sort of a completion.

SPEAKER_01:

Even if you didn't go any further. Um tell us a little bit about the support you've got. You mentioned that it started as a tourist amenity and then it shifted more to a cycling infrastructure for for the locals. Uh, I noticed on your website you've got over a thousand members. Who are some of your partners in this and and what did they contribute?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we have um well, we have quite a large membership. If you look at you know, our population is uh say 1,200 people in the valley. So we we have about 10 people.

SPEAKER_01:

Everybody's a member of your society?

SPEAKER_02:

No, 12,000, sorry. So we're looking at 10% uh as members. So yeah, just the just one zero out. That's all.

SPEAKER_01:

Tell me about the the uh you've got presumably some of the tourist organizations if there if there is one. Did you get provincial support from this for this?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, we've uh had uh in fact a major part of the construction funding came from a federal provincial grant.

SPEAKER_01:

And what is the total cost of this going to be?

SPEAKER_02:

The the final cost we estimate to be about seven million dollars, but of course that can change as we go along. This this portion is about three million dollars, I would say, what we've what we've uh got to date.

SPEAKER_01:

Um and you've been raising that money since 2015 through grants, donations, started 2015, 2015.

SPEAKER_02:

We got a big grant from the Rotary Club in 2016. They gave us$15,000, which helps you get uh a feasibility study going. And then in 2017, the Ministry of Transport kicked in 20 grand, and but we've been very active with um various groups, and any grant we can write, uh any fundraising possibility, we've uh been working on that.

SPEAKER_01:

Um so your society has been doing all this work, has to round up all these grants. You're you've got to get into the millions here. You've just talked about 20,000 here and there, but how do you get how are you gonna get to six million?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, what we've found so uh looking at phase one, to get to phase one, it it um the money we raised helps uh pay for the conceptual planning and the detailed design drawings, which you you know it's probably uh$250,000 of the three million. But once you have plans that are ready to go, governments, provincial and federal governments, they like those kind of plans. That's when you can get shovel ready, shovel ready, that's the key. So they like to have a plan that is ready to go, and so we were uh in that position last well, a year and a half ago, uh shovel ready with phase one, and uh and now we're close to shovel ready with phase two and three should be completed this uh fall. So we've we we we got those funds, and that helps you get the big money.

SPEAKER_01:

When you're talking about advice to other communities around BC, uh that I'm taking it one of your big points would be do whatever you can to get the plans together, and once once you're there, it opens a lot of other doors. Were there other things that you learned that that would be applicable in other places?

SPEAKER_02:

Certainly uh the biggest thing is building relationships. So we we you know talked about partnerships earlier. Well the the various stakeholders, well, that would be the the town of Smithers, village of Telqua, the Office of the Wetsuetan, big supporters, and uh the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure have also been uh very supportive, as well as the regional district. And most of our trail is within the regional district. And so for every one of those groups, this was a learning curve because this is the first trail of its kind in the regional district, in this area. So the regional district had to come up with a whole new policy for trails uh because of our project, and that has resulted in they now have that in place, and they're they're working on their own trail network from Burns Lake to connect to Francois Lake, which is about a 25-kilometer trail. That's building on what we've what they've learned from working with us.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, fantastic. Did you find the engineering and planning expertise locally, or did you have to contract that out?

SPEAKER_02:

We have it local, and we're very fortunate with that. Uh the um we have we have hired uh a project manager. He works for WSP, which is a Canadian-wide firm. But he grew up in Smithers, young family man. Uh his summers were spent working for the road construction paving company here. So he knows how to use a shovel and he knows uh from the engineering point of view how to design it. So he's been very keen. And in fact, he's been uh contacted by several groups throughout the province because of the expertise he's developed from working on this trail. So we've all learned and developed our skills as we move along.

SPEAKER_01:

Alan, uh, I just want to ask you what's going to happen on your your phase one opening? What what's when is it and what will happen? Will you be playing your ukulele?

SPEAKER_02:

Any chance I get. We are uh June 10th is is our date that we've set for our celebration, and we'll be inviting the stakeholders that have worked with us. So that will be the uh the office of the wet sweating village of Smithers, uh Town of Smithers, village of Telqua, regional district, ministry of transport folks, and anyone else that we can think of. So we're we're in the planning stages of what kind of a party it will be, but um there will be lots of activity, I'm sure, and music, of course.

SPEAKER_01:

There's lots of music in the valley here, so I I know you're famous for your I've met some of your musicians from Smithers. You've got a great uh singing group up there. I can't remember their name, but uh I I've sung with some of them.

SPEAKER_02:

The local locals, perhaps.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh the smithereens or something like that? Or I don't know. Um did you have any opposition to this?

SPEAKER_02:

Not a lot. Um no, I I wouldn't say opposition. We have questions about it, and and that's okay. Questions are good because uh they uh get you to go back and do your homework and answer those questions.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh concerns, I guess, would be more um what were some of the concerns that people raised?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, about why is money going to this when it could be going to that. That's fair enough. I mean, as taxpayers, we all have to have a say in where our funds go and or should have. Um but I can't think of any strong opposition against it.

SPEAKER_01:

One of the concerns that is pretty common when these kind of projects come forward is well, there aren't very many cyclists really, and the rest of us are driving cars, we have to, or trucks, or whatever. Um, how do you justify spending all this money on this very small elite group of people? And I assume you have to have you you've heard that a little bit and maybe have an answer for that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, yeah, we have heard that. Um, but I think the shift, you know, we when it was focused on a tourist type trail, there was a lot of that. But when it became a transportation trail, that shifted. But also I think the the general attitude has shifted regarding cycling. It used to be viewed as uh, oh, you're going cycling as if you're going to play soccer or a sport. Whereas now it's quite normal to see people going grocery shopping or using it for transportation.

SPEAKER_01:

So utility and and functionality become a big feature when you're trying to win people over.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a there's just a general shift in quality of life, and and you you see that in anything you can make your community uh that adds to your community, it it brings people in, you know. Uh Smithers faces what everyone else faces, doctor shortages, although we have seem to have plenty, uh, but uh all of those things people will locate here because not first because of a job, but because of other amenities. You know, we have a Ski Hill, we have uh fantastic uh mountain biking association and on and on. So this is just one more amenity that will bring people here, just like with the music scene as well.

SPEAKER_01:

I could see how uh there would be a lot of road uh sort of mountain bikers in Smithers as there are in so many um towns in BC. But road riders, are there quite as many? And do you think that this trail will build a road rider, I don't know, constituency if you like, or will encourage more people to be out riding road bikes, or will you do you think it'll be mostly used by mountain bike, actual mountain bikes?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, yeah, I think if you if you have if that's your only bicycle, you'll use it everywhere you can. Um but I know several people, they've got a road bike, they've got a mountain bike, and and a town bike. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I expect you'll see those all on the uh on the route. And uh what do you do now? Now that you've got the first, once you've done the first phase and the celebration and the ukulele music dies down, how about then what are you going to do for the next two phases? What are the next steps?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the next step is we are working uh together with our project manager on phase two, uh the detailed design drawings, which we're hoping to have completed uh by July. This is a little more complex than phase one. There's five landowners on this stretch and a very narrow piece of highway, so that means you're working with BC Hydro and other factors. So it's taking some negotiating and making sure everyone's happy with the plan. But that's our our goal is to have this completed. The funds are in place to complete phase two, and we have funds in place to complete phase three. And so phase three detailed design is also going to start, and some of the work that's um allocated for phase two will be done jointly with phase three. So we're hoping uh, best case scenario, by the fall we'll have phase two and three shelf ready, which means we're looking for the big bucks, and and we're hoping that the momentum of phase one will push that through. And I think it already has a huge effect. You know, last year once it started construction and it was paved, and people saw it and started using it, it became oh, that's what you're talking about. It's much easier to show something than to talk about an idea.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And uh congratulations for you for getting that sample in place because I think that's the same everywhere. People don't really understand or believe it's going to have benefits, but once they get out on it, it's a whole different story.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, and that's what we're excited about. And so we're hoping to build on that momentum. And in fact, just adding to that, you know, we have our phase one, two, and three, but telqua added phase four, which is to continue on with their active transportation plan, which they're just completing right now. And town of Smithers is also working on connecting uh our trail and improving that connection.

SPEAKER_01:

So uh so has this project, do you think, triggered uh a bigger interest in active transportation and active transportation plans in all other areas too? I mean other parts of the town and the near and the neighborhood?

SPEAKER_02:

It's certainly I think it has. It certainly helped, I know, in within Smithers, the act when they uh put in place some of the things from their active transportation plan. There isn't the resistance as we spoke of earlier, it's like just for a few cyclists. It's like, well, it's not just cyclists, active transportation is a lot of folks getting out and about. Um, for example, uh at our uh seniors, we have a um uh seniors care home. They have a bicycle with a wheelchair that they purchased last year. Well, guess what? They're gonna be using it around town, but on our trail. And that so that's another thing that probably wasn't considered five years ago.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you anticipate the breakdown will be of traffic on the route? Will it be 80% cyclist, 90% cyclist? Will it be the a lot? Will it be people hiking and walking, rolling, scooters?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm thinking it will be about 75% cyclists, but um there are folks walking their dog on it already. And and a friend of mine who's in his 60s or close to 60 bought a longboard and he says, I'm gonna use it on the grand opening.

SPEAKER_01:

That sounds fantastic, Alan. I I look forward to going to Smithers and and uh riding on that on that route sometime. I want to thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story, and uh we'll have a link to you and Cycle 16 as well on our website, bccycling.ca. And uh thank you very much for for being part of this, our very first podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a privilege uh to be here and to to talk about this project. And uh I also want to say thanks to the BC Cycling Coalition because you've helped us along our journey many times with with grants, but just connecting us with other folks in the province to give us the information that we need.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's great to hear, and we look forward to continuing to do it to do that work. Alan, can you play us out with your ukulele? Okay, I'd like to what shall I play? We've got a we got an in extra music. We can that can be our let's go with that.

SPEAKER_02:

How's that for improvising on the spot? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. Royalties will flow.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah. Well, I you know where I'll spend them. Cycle 16.

SPEAKER_01:

You buy I meant I I didn't mention your your spoke campaign where you can buy a one meter of the trail for six hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a yeah, and uh or a spoke is twenty-five dollars.

SPEAKER_01:

And how much do you get for twenty-five dollars? How many inches or centimeters?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, not a lot of distance, but you get the feeling that I contributed. That's the so we thought a spoke is you know, someone can just come in with their birthday money, or but six hundred dollars per meter, it's it at least it gives you a vision of what you're contributing to.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure, and I guess there's a lot of volunteer time too. That's oh yeah, just it's not and equally if not more important than money. Is there anybody else you'd like to give a shout out to uh who's been involved with it?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, uh, you know, our MLE, uh Nathan Cullen, where he's yeah, he was MP, now he's an MLE, and and Taylor Backrack have both been very supportive of uh projects, and and that's key to to talk to your politicians. Uh you know, in the beginning we bought a lot of coffee for a lot of people, and that's it's about building relationships, building networks. One of the landowners from the phase two, where there's two landowners, one was resistant until we brought them uh a loaf of freshly made sourdough bread, and that opened the door. So you never know what works for you.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Thanks for listening to Bike Tech and supporting Safe Cycling in BC. Please subscribe so you don't miss an episode. BT Cycling Coalition relies on your support to continue our work. Please consider becoming a member and adding your voice to the call for safer and more accessible cycling in BC. Special thanks to our sponsors, Driver Bike, Richardfuels.ca.