Bike Sense
Bike Sense: the podcast of The BC Cycling Coalition.
Join Host Peter Ladner as he interviews guests to talk about all things related to cycling advocacy, education, and road safety in BC. Listen to stories that can influence changes that make active transportation and mobility safer, more equitable, and more accessible, so we can meet our climate, health, social justice, tourism and economic development goals.
Please visit our website at bccycling.ca to find out more about what the BC Cycling Coalition is doing and how you can join and support us.
Bike Sense
Salt Spring's Crucial Bike Route Gap, and BC Transit's Vision
An eye-opening conversation with Steve New, board member of Island Pathways and former Chief Operating Officer of BC Transit.
We explore the ambitious vision of completing the 180-kilometre Salish Sea Trail loop on Salt Spring Island's narrow roads, and dive into the role of BC Transit in enabling active transportation across B.C.
Island Pathways: improving transportation on Salt Spring Island https://islandpathways.ca/
B.C. Transit's vision
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The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia.
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Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, peter Ladner, chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show of the board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. My guest today is Steve New. He's a resident of Salt Spring Island and I've invited him to come on the podcast for two reasons. One is Salt Spring Island has a very interesting and long-standing organization that is championing a specific route that would have major cycle tourism implications. And secondly, he's the former chief operating officer of BC Transit and I thought he might have some things to say about how bus transit and other forms of transit organized by BC Transit might have an impact on active transportation. So welcome, steve.
Speaker 2:Thanks, peter, I'm glad to be here active transportation.
Speaker 1:So welcome Steve. Thanks Peter, I'm glad to be here. Tell us what is your role on Island Pathways? What is Island Pathways?
Speaker 2:and what are they trying to do? First, I'm a part-time resident of Salt Spring Island, but I serve on the board of directors of Island Pathways, which is an organization that's been active for almost 40 years in advocacy, planning, design and construction of walkways on Salt Spring Island and benches and mapping for walking and cycling and in the last two or three years, has become very active in developing safe, all ages and abilities cycling infrastructure on the island and how's that going?
Speaker 1:I, I was on salt spring island. I don't recall seeing bike lanes. Am I missing something, or were they somewhere?
Speaker 2:else. No, you're quite right. Of the 265 kilometers of roads on salt Spring Island, there's currently one kilometer of segregated cycle path on Upper Ganges Road, but we were very ambitious and we expect that there will be at least another 19 more kilometers if we're successful in completing the missing link of the Salish Sea Trail.
Speaker 1:I really like that image and I'm going to get you to tell us what that is in a second. But I just want to recall an incident in Vancouver or a situation in Vancouver where we had a stretch of the missing link in the seawall around Vancouver along Point Grey Road and that was a big selling feature for taking cars through traffic off that road. So the big picture can work in selling an improvement in active transportation. So tell us about the big picture. What is the Sailor C Trail?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the big picture is that it's a trail of some 180 kilometers. It's a loop that would connect the Cowichan Valley, the Victoria area of the Capital Regional District, as well as Salt Spring Island, and it connects existing segregated and on-road cycle routes in those other regions. And we're hoping that Salt Springs 20 kilometers between Fulford Harbor to the town of Ganges and then on to Vesuvius those two endpoints, with ferry terminals, would be a perfect addition to create a recreational cycling tourism and a place where active transportation users, including walkers and those on bikes, can safely traverse the island.
Speaker 1:Steve, I just want to stop for a moment. You and I are both cyclists. You know that cyclists love to nerd out on their routes that they take, so you haven't told me enough. I'm going to go. Let's say I start in Vesuvius. Then where do I go? I take the ferry over to what's the place? Chimenas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from Vesuvius you take a ferry to Crofton and from Crofton you'd cycle on some very generous road shoulders through to North Cowichan and Duncan.
Speaker 2:And then get onto the Cowichan Valley Trail which loops out to the Cowichan Lake, back on the trail through the provincial lands back to Duncan provincial lands back to Duncan and then over towards the Malahat along the Cowichan Valley Trail over the Souk Hills Wilderness Trail, connect to the Galloping Goose into Victoria and then Victoria out on the Lockside Trail back to Swartz Bay and then over to Fulford and then into Ganges oh.
Speaker 1:I like that and on to Vesuvius.
Speaker 2:that's where you're staying. Fantastic, and how long is that? That is a 180, roughly kilometer trail.
Speaker 1:So that would be a multi-day trip for most people.
Speaker 2:Yes, it would, and the users could take any part of it. What it does on Salt Spring is it eliminates the narrow in some cases no shoulders in some cases no shoulders in others on roads that are posted at 80 kilometers per hour and make it very uncomfortable for many riders, whether they're advanced or beginners.
Speaker 1:Is this route so enticing that people are doing it anyway now but having problems on that particular stretch?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, they're doing that. Now there is an alternate route that is still quite hilly and with very few, a little less, traffic, but with no shoulders as well, and we're hoping that with that those wider shoulders, that not only residents but also visitors to Salt Spring Island will find it an even more attractive place to visit.
Speaker 1:So let's cut to the chase. How much money do you need and what are your chances of getting?
Speaker 2:it. Well, it's hard to pin an exact figure on that. There's some work that Island Pathways had initiated, and then our partner, the Capital Regional District, that has designated this corridor from Fulford Harbour to Vesuvius as a regional trail. They've now assumed responsibility for a contract to prepare preliminary design and drawings for this route. Based on that, we'll be able to make a more educated guess about what it'll take to complete it.
Speaker 1:So does that mean the citizens of Salt Spring are now relegated to sort of a cheerleader role and monitoring and encouraging and making sure it happens, and not having to pay for it or do the rest of the work Well?
Speaker 2:there's a lot of cheerleading. The records show that there's been 50 years of cheerleading, 50 years of asking for wider shoulders, and we feel that, with the quite complex world arrangement of responsibilities for various works on Salt Spring, that the regional director, a small group called the Local Community Commission, will be able to get on board and determine the priorities for that and then get on with the work. That's not to say and then get on with the work, that's not to say that nothing has been done. For example, just last week, tenders on 1.6 kilometers of one of the toughest sections of this route closed, and that's what's called the Ganges Hill, the hill just south of Ganges, and so seeing that work completed will give a great, a big boost to future work.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you may have heard that at our recent Active Transportation Summit in New Westminster, the Minister Fleming announced the funding for Cycle 16 in Smithers, from Smithers to Telco. I believe it was in the order of $10 million to finish that off, and so I think you should go to the Ministry of Transportation and say that they've now set a precedent for per capita spending on active transportation routes and you're ready to go, presuming those drawings have been done, will you be relying on the Ministry for funding? Funding, or will the regional district raise taxes, or how does that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in our case there'll be a partnership arrangement for funding. I'm sure I don't know how it will work out in particular, but typically there'll be perhaps some federal active transportation dollars, certainly the ministry, and there may be some local dollars as well. The minister is someone who knows about Salt Spring event a little over a year ago and was kind enough to cycle along parts of this route. The Minister of Tourism, lana Popham, was on the island just three weeks ago that would be in June. In June looking at the cycling tourism potential and we were able to show her and some of her staff the potential for cycling tourism on the island that with some enhancements in the infrastructure that we can further improve the tourism and the economy on Salt Spring.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I love about cycle tourism is that, from a political point of view, it brings in unlikely supporters for active transportation, such as the chambers of commerce, the tourism hotel and whatever operators bike rental people, business people and I love that. It expands the reach of support that way and hopefully will help generate enough political support to get these projects through. So your vision. I love the Sailor Sea Trail. I've done sections of that. I would love to do the whole thing sections of that.
Speaker 2:I would love to do the whole thing. Yeah, we were very pleased to have other speakers on this day of activities with Minister Popham, and one person, Colleen MacDonald, who is the author of books on cycling, talks about the New Zealand experience, which is very positive and this is a paraphrase, but millions in investment in cycling infrastructure in New Zealand have produced billions in revenue for the economy. You know, we hope we can do a fraction of that here.
Speaker 1:We talk. We cyclists like to talk that way, but I think there's some reality in those numbers, unlike, let's just say, the so-called billions that come from world cup games coming to vancouver or whatever. So I I think it's great that there's evidence from other regions, and all over the province there are these cycle tourism visions and pieces put together, and the more of them that can be completed to demonstrate what actually happens and get some data, the better. So I wish you the best of luck with that, and do you have any next steps, deadlines, timelines, promises that you're waiting to see fulfilled?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a couple of follow-ups. One is with the provincial government. With the active transportation capital projects that were announced last week by Minister Fleming, we want to find out more about how we can participate in the development of future projects. We're very pleased with the projects that were announced, although none for Salt Spring, but with the work that's underway with the CRD and the consultants that we and they have retained for this work. We think that will be fuel for those future projects cycle tourism, not only in southern Vancouver Island, gulf Islands, but also Sea to Sky, the Okanagan and other regions and we're hopeful that she will be a catalyst for perhaps inter-ministry work. Those with money for capital projects, combined with the ministry's enthusiasm for bringing not only BC but national and international visitors in, will be so important. We want to ensure that the tour operators who are operating on Salt Spring at the moment say that they can get cycle groups in at least once. It's difficult to get them in twice because of the unsafe nature of our roads. How?
Speaker 1:about once a day. Wouldn't that be something you know? There was a theme at the Active Transportation Summit that was held in mid-June in New Westminster that rung true to me, which was that we have to be realistic about what the spending is going to be, have to be to realize the dreams of these cycling infrastructure projects around the province and the reality of achieving the Clean BC goals, and it's going to have to be a vast improvement, a whole order of magnitude. It needs a whole different approach to thinking about the $5 billion Ministry of Transportation infrastructure budget and Mayor Patrick Johnson from New Westminster said let's just say we take 6% of that budget as a target and rally around that number, which would give projects like yours the money to proceed seed.
Speaker 1:I want to move on to another topic and ask you about transit. So we've talked about cycling. That's fine, and e-bikes I'm sure will help get up that ganji's hill. But is there a role for transit in these routes and and along these to attract tourists and and open up even more options for these trails so-called trails, actually roads?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, there is. And BC Transit, which was formerly a VP and chief operating officer, in their recently completed 2024 strategic plan. What I see although I've not worked with BC Transit in the last 14 years what I see in the work that they've done is that it's an organization that is outward focused. They're looking at issues bigger than just maintaining the bus, keeping it rolling and so on. Maintaining the bus, keeping it rolling and so on, the typical traditional internal focused organization, and so connecting to communities, connecting to housing, connecting to issues like social isolation. These are issues that aren't always absorbed by transit organization when they're working on their strategic plans. So, in the big picture, bc Transit, to my view, is taking that bigger role and adopting it?
Speaker 1:Do they see themselves as being purveyors of being able to carry bikes and things like that around? I know that the buses that go up to Whistler they all now have these bike trailers on them and sometimes they can put bikes underneath and they're willing to encourage cyclists to use that mode of transit as a way to help them be more active them be more active.
Speaker 2:Bc Transit, from what I've seen, either in the past or under the current strategic plan, are definitely looking at ways to integrate other modes of transportation, like cycling, into their world. So, for instance, it's now quite common to have bike racks on buses. It's quite common to have bike lockers at transit stations. These are ways and with higher order transit, like in TransLink with trains and so on, might exist between organizations or geography are lowered as much as possible so that there's a seamless trip for those riders who are going from one place to another and using other modes of travel and using other modes of travel.
Speaker 1:Now the Island Pathways begins with a ferry trip, ends with a ferry trip, one ferry from Swasson to Fasubias, no Fulford Harbour, and the other one from Fasubias to Crofton. Do you at Island Pathways weigh in on the issues of bikes on ferries? Do you, for example, address the lack of signage, the lack of promotion, the lack of instruction when you're getting on and off the ferry, what cyclists should be doing, the lack of bike parking and obvious places to put your bike and all that kind of stuff? Are you on that too?
Speaker 2:Do you see that as part of your island pathways and Sailor's Sea Trail? Yes, we do see it as a role. I don't think we're fully integrated. The cycling arm of island pathways is relatively new in the last two to three, four years and there's some evidence that even in some of the work that's been done by BC Ferries at the Vesuvius terminal plans hasn't fully absorbed all of our wish lists for easy passage onto and off of the ferries in that link. So it's a constant issue that we need to work on. For instance, even at Swartz Bay major terminal, the greetings between ferry users and transit users is still very basic and it hasn't changed in a long time. So being able to upgrade the terminal design and some of the amenities for walk-on passengers to transit, as well as those with bicycles if they're carrying them on those racks at the front of bicycles, I think still needs work, so the job isn't completely done.
Speaker 1:If I, as a cyclist, approach the ferry terminal of Vesuvius, is there any sign telling me what to do, where to go, how to park? Any of that? I mean, I'm just talking about signage, which I think would be a fairly simple and basic starting point. But I don't see signage anywhere on any ferry saying cyclists, go here, do this welcome, take this entrance, pay here no still, you're correct okay, you're correct.
Speaker 1:Well, we're trying to get bc ferries to come on the podcast and answer for some of these sins of emissions but, uh, so far, uh, no results. But I'm sure they're thinking about this, I know they are.
Speaker 2:They've done some surveys, the president appears to be very oriented towards those linkages and reaching out to other partners, but I think the work to date is still quite traditional. There's limitations of space and dollars and so on. But I think we really need to be bold in looking at active transportation and breaking down the barriers between the modes of transportation so that the trip for the customer is seamless and it's well understood and there's understanding about who gets on the ferry first and where you might wait. And it's well understood and there's understanding about who gets on the ferry first and where you might wait when it's pouring, with rain and and similar ways, even just where to park your bike.
Speaker 1:And I understand they were thinking about having some hanging racks. And, uh, our executive director at the bc cycling coalition, mike Kosky, actually worked at ICBC with Mr Jimenez is his name, yes, jimenez and helped him buy a bicycle, actually, and Mike said, no, don't put a hanging rack on a bike on a ferry, because we're not going to be talking about a lot of e-bikes that are heavy to lift up Some people can't even lift them up to hang them and bikes loaded with panniers front panniers particularly that don't make sense to put in a hangar. So those kind of things they're still working through. But your example at Salt Spring is such a vivid one of the intermodality Is that the right word? The change of modes that is required to make these active transportation dreams come true, particularly these cycling tourism routes, is one of the highest performing types of transit in rural and small town areas.
Speaker 2:It was designed with integration at its heart. So, for instance, the market serving the ferry terminals was an integral part of planning that service. Their arrangements were made for the little minibus. It only fits 24 people and on average it's half transit in the community. Integration is the name of the game.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Well, when I go to communities anywhere and I see a bus go by, I always look to see how many people are in the bus. When it's half full or more, I go. Yes, it's being used, they've obviously they're doing something useful. But how many times have I seen we've all seen in, particularly in smaller communities these big empty buses rumbling around once an hour, maybe one, maybe two people in them, and I don't understand why this keeps happening when it obviously isn't serving a need, whereas in a place like pow River they're experimenting with something called a Zunga bus. I think it is an on-demand bus that will, through software, create the most efficient route through all the demands and be much more efficient and responsive to the public. Do you see that happening at BC Transit? Happening at?
Speaker 2:BC Transit. Yeah, I do see it. There's evidence the fact that Powell River is doing it, and Powell River is a member of that BC Transit group of communities. But BC Transit itself is experimenting with a pilot in a residential area in Kelowna with on-demand transit, which would accomplish the same thing. The difference between the Powell River example that you gave and the Kelowna pilot that's being run is that the pilot is structured in a way that can be scaled up to other communities. So at the core of BC Transit's existence is shared services, in other words, being able to develop services that can be extended easily and scaled up to other communities, and the Kelowna model is based upon that kind of technology. That can be then, once piloted and proven successful, can then be extended to many communities with less effort than reinventing the wheel each time.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, I look forward to that. I know it's underway now, I think, the Cologne experiment and it can't happen soon enough, in my opinion, particularly because we have technology now that can coordinate these things. In Vancouver, in Metro Vancouver, you still have to phone a day ahead for HandyDart. It's like imagine phoning a day ahead for your Uber ride. It's inconceivable. And the technology is there to do a lot of these things differently, better than we've done in the past. And obviously an active transportation future has to involve transit in many, many ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what I've seen because of my work I was a past chair of the Canadian Urban Transit Association and also in my own consulting practice for nine years worked across Canada and what I saw in BC was that between with TransLink and BC Transit, these were both best of class organizations. They were outward looking, they're looking for partnerships, they're building, looking at innovation, looking at ways to reduce their carbon footprint as an organization and so on, and it was as a former executive with BC Transit I was quite proud to see the organization is still positioned in that way, In a similar way that BC Cycling Coalition. Hub Capital Bikes are similarly so well regarded by other organizations across the country in recent conversations with Cycle Toronto and Velo Quebec that we're punching above our weight class.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm happy to hear that, although we tend to look at Velo Quebec and say, wow, we'd love to be doing what they're doing, but that's a good thing. Well, it sounds like we've sketched out a future here Better ferries, more accessible to cyclists and active transportation, people route, safe routes through salt spring, starting with smithers and salt spring, and on on around, and then some of these rail trails, because I know part of that cowichan valley leg that you mentioned is on a rail bit former rail bed, and so is the galloping goose, and, uh, wonderful future. We did hear, by the way, at the conference that the Saanich kind of sets the standard for suburban municipality using rail trails to increase their mode share. I believe it's up to 8% and it can be done outside the major built-up centers. Anything else you want to add, steve?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just the direction's very positive. The pace of development seems slow at times, perhaps always Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I like to think that if you see the roads, as it were, with a whole bunch of e-bike riders, through the rebates that are going on, and other people like that, the demand will quickly rise to deal with safety. And also when people see the rainbow of these cycle tours and routes, that people, it's easy to get excited about these routes and if I, you and I can get excited about them, somebody coming from Germany or Atlanta could easily also get excited about them and spawn new industries, new businesses and new and ultimately, new spending to make it all happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, and with integrated mobility, as I think of it, there's a new way of thinking that draws social equity into the planning process and the policies of road providers, and I think that's also at the heart of trying to make a change, with so many years of emphasis on auto-oriented infrastructure developments, that trying to rebalance the scales to reflect services for seniors, people with disabilities, walkers, cyclists and so on scooter users, mobility device users Reflecting that, you know, in terms of some hardwired new thinking, is going to be an important continuing step to take.
Speaker 1:We also heard about at the conference from people from Indigenous communities having to walk along the highway and cross the road with no crosswalk to get to some semblance of public transit or a place they can get a ride.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I think that the main theme of the next provincial election is going to be affordability and these initiatives are absolutely delivering affordability and hopefully some of the politicians will see that and make some commitments and we'll get to this next level, because it's waiting out there for us and it's tantalizing. Thank you so much, steve, it's been wonderful talking with you, and all the best to Island Pathways. Go up to Smithers and find out what they did to get all that whack of funding and bring it back and show Minister Povham how excited you are to be matched.
Speaker 2:We'll speak with the Smithers people and with the minister For sure, and share what sounds like your enthusiasm for that project too.
Speaker 1:Okay, steve, thank you very much, and we'll leave it at that.
Speaker 2:Great Thanks, so much, peter.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. If you liked the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peterladner at bccyclingca. At bccyclingca, you can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member at bccyclingca.