Bike Sense

Is BC's New Minimum Safe Passing Law Working? The RCMP Weighs In

• The BC Cycling Coalition • Season 3 • Episode 11

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The width of a queen-size mattress. That’s the picture we keep coming back to when we talk about BC’s new minimum safe passing distance for cyclists. But how can police actually prove a too-close pass, and what tools — from dashcams to clear signage to fines — will result in safer daily rides? Corporal Michael McLaughlin, Media Relations Officer for BC Highway Patrol (RCMP), joins us to unpack what’s enforceable, what’s cultural, and where advocates can focus to move the needle.

Bill 24 (safe passing distance legistlation)

Share the Road Cycling Coalition (ON)

ICBC - Road Safety

Road Safety - BC Government 

Okanagan Gran Fondo death

Cops for Cancer fatality Prince George

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, Peter Ladner, Chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. Cyclists in BC have been outraged and saddened by news of fellow cyclists being killed by motorized vehicles in recent months and years. One particularly tragic and recent example was the cyclists riding in the Pentecton Fondo, who was killed. There were two cyclists killed in Prince George. One cyclist killed in Prince George and two injured during a training ride for a cops for cancer ride. And there were other instances in U Royal, Langford, Nanoose Bay. It makes all of us a little bit wary and a little bit angry and wondering what we can do about it. One response has been to pressure the BC government to pass Bill 24, which they did in June 2024, which requires cars to leave a one-meter passing distance between them and vulnerable road users, including cyclists, under 50 kilometers an hour and 1.5 meters at higher speeds, which I like to remind people is the size of a queen size mattress. But cyclists ask themselves, is this being enforced? If it is, uh has anybody ever got a ticket for this? And if we want to know, how do we find out? So I'm here to find out. And I've invited to join us today, Corporal Michael McLaughlin, who is the media relations officer for the BC Highway Patrol, which is part of the RCMP. And uh he's hopefully gonna give us some answers. Welcome, Michael. Glad to be here, Peter. First of all, can I call you Michael? I know your proper title is Corporal McLaughlin. Um is it okay to call you Michael?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. I think for the purposes of this conversation, let's get right to it and go with first names.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So let's get right to it. And I'm gonna start with my standard question. I know you're a cyclist.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Could you describe for me your most recent ride?

SPEAKER_01:

Ooh, most recent ride. Well, I'm a club rider, among other things. I really like road riding, so I think my most recent ride would probably be that. Um I tend to go on weekends for these long 100 to 200 kilometer road rides where I race my friends, have some fun that way. And I'm also a commuter. Um, so this week I'm a little under the weather, but normally I'm riding once or twice a week to work as well. So as much as possible, I'm getting on two wheels.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you say ride to work, you're riding to the headquarters in Surrey?

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. Yes. So I go over a bridge, sometimes two bridges, depending on the route that I take and how much time that I've got, and of course the weather. Sometimes you want to get home a little more quickly. Do you feel safe when you're riding to work? That's a great question. And I think the answer is, as I'm going to say often today, it depends. Uh, if the weather's great and I've got lots of room and I'm feeling confident and the traffic isn't too tied up, I can feel really confident. On other days, perhaps as a careless driver or the weather's poor, I don't feel as confident. So it really depends for me. And I try to engineer my riding a little bit on my level of confidence for each day. You know, evaluate each day a little bit differently because each day does bring you different conditions.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you been passed by cars that are closer than the safe passing distance?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, of course. Haven't all cyclists been passed by somebody going too closely. Heck, I was even hit this year uh on my on my commute home. I had a driver not paying attention, looking right instead of left. And uh luckily I saw the car coming and was practicing some of what I preach here and didn't uh the collision wasn't too bad. But sure, yeah, being being too close to vehicles is an omnipresent problem for me too. Well, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00:

So you got hit by a car. Car made contact with you. Sure did. Was there a fine levied for that car breaking the safe passing distance rules?

SPEAKER_01:

So in this case, the car was coming out of a parking lot and crossing over a bike lane to get into traffic. And it was one of those painted bike lanes that are quite common now in the Metro Vancouver area. I think they are helpful, but they can lead to a bit of complacency from bicycle riders, which we're going to come back to later. Luckily, perhaps because of my job and I'm well aware of the risks, I'm constantly looking out for problems. So as this person came out of the parking lot and blew through the lane, I slowed down enough so that the collision was minor and actually hit the side of his car. So, yes, that would still have been a violation. It would have been a fail-to-yield violation. In this case, I wasn't hurt. Uh, we talked, we exchanged information, and my bike was okay, so I chose not to pursue a claim or any charges, and we just went about our way. Did you get mad? Uh yeah, I think it's fair to say I got mad in the moment. Um, fortunately, I controlled my tongue to a point. Um I don't think getting angry is is going to be useful in that situation, although I certainly felt that emotion. But yeah, I mean, I'm human. Uh, I don't I don't like getting hit by a car any more than the next person.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it sounds like your case may have been one of those it depends issues because the car was coming out from the side, not just going parallel with you. But uh let's say it was going parallel with you. Um is this first my first question is really, is this legislation even enforceable? Like how would you enforce, how would you know or measure or prove that somebody was too close within that forbidden distance?

SPEAKER_01:

You're asking a really important question. And a lot of people get upset when uh laws aren't enforced as much as they would like. But the trick with the minimum passing distance law is you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person was within that minimum passing distance. One of the great tools that BC Highway Patrol has now is in all of our vehicles, we have dash camera mounted video. And as each officer moves towards having body camera, that also gives us a new level of evidence. The trick is you're probably going to have to have video evidence or something similar to prove that minimum passing distance. So this is never a law that I would expect is going to get enforced in enormous numbers. Unfortunately, it might get enforced more after the fact when a collision has occurred. It does give police that extra tool if a cyclist hasn't been seriously hurt, for instance. Uh the fact that you made contact with a cyclist is pretty clear evidence that you are violating that law, so a driver can get a ticket that way. It is nice as a police officer and as a traffic enforcement officer to have that extra tool in your tool belt. Again, I caution people, I don't think we're ever going to see enormous numbers, but this is progress in terms of legislation. Also don't forget, most drivers are really trying to do the right thing. They're trying to obey the law. And when you codify these things, when you tell people, look, 1.5 meters is as close as you want to be, and it's the size of a queen-sized mattress, then most people will try to follow that law. So hopefully we, as the as our culture improves with cycling and driving, we get more and more safer and respectful of these different road users.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, let's talk about that. We are both of us assuming that drivers know about this, but I would say it's a safe assumption that they have no idea. Do you have any suggestions as to how we could ensure that they at least know about the safe passing, the minimum passing distance?

SPEAKER_01:

Education is always a really important part of any law. And you're you're right. Most people probably don't know that there is a law one to 1.5 meters. But slowly over time, we have to educate people. With education comes enforcement, because no matter how much education you do, there will always be some people who are scofflaws. They don't care what the legislation says or they think it doesn't apply to them. This is very common when you're stopping people for traffic tickets. They will give you an excuse that rhymes with, well, I'm special. I don't need to follow the distracted driving laws in particular, I don't need to follow the speed limit because I'm a good driver and I have a great car, this kind of thing. So yeah, education's always going to be a piece. I think one of the key things to remember, particularly in these polarized times, is getting angry and finger wagging is probably not the optimal way to convince people to change their behavior. I'm very conscious of that as a police officer. I try to use humor in discussing these things, but talk about it, talk about it a lot. Uh, Hub and the other cycling advocacy groups out there need to bring it up regularly in a way that is really meant to share the information, I think, rather than force it down people's throats. And over time, and it will take time, people will get better and better and more and more knowledgeable. Another key component is educating the youth as they're first getting into driving. Include bicycle awareness and vulnerable road user awareness in that uh that curriculum for driving schools. Make sure there's a component where they understand what the rules and laws are. Is that there now? I don't know. I'd have to talk to, and you'd have to talk to private companies who are actually delivering this because it's it's not a government-run program in terms of uh driver education.

SPEAKER_00:

Aaron Powell Doesn't ICBC have a standard curriculum that the private driving schools have to adhere to or live up to?

SPEAKER_01:

So as I understand it, there is standard um metrics that must be met, but these are really leading more into the driving test component. You know, you must meet XYZ behavior. And it's not so much um it's not so much telling people how they have to instill that behavior. Which is why when you're selecting a driving school, parents, I would say be very selective. Don't go for the cheapest version, go for a version that is established and that has uh that really takes their job seriously and is not just trying to educate people to pass the test, the the road tests.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think you, in some previous correspondence we had suggested ICBC could get involved. Does ICBC have a role in this?

SPEAKER_01:

ICBC certainly has a role. There's also an organization, Road Safe BC, where they do a lot of education on road safety. We work with them a bunch as well. And I see it on their on their social media platforms. They are putting these sorts of messages out. And with any sort of message on social media or any and anywhere else, you need to repeat it over and over for it to sink into people. One recent thing we've done, unrelated to cycling in particular, but we can we can get back to this and for vulnerable road users as well, is there was a law passed in 2018 called mandatory alcohol screening, where police no longer need reasonable and probable grounds, or pardon me, reasonable suspicion to believe that somebody has consumed alcohol to administer a roadside breath test. So this has been going on for seven years, and the vast majority of drivers still don't know about it. So we've actually relaunched a campaign this year to educate people on mandatory screening, and I must have put it in four or five different news releases and done a dozen interviews, and even professional journalists don't realize this law is there. So it just tells you anytime you're trying to educate people on a relatively new law, like the vulnerable road users law, which is only a year old, it's going to take some time and a lot of repetition and effort and patience.

SPEAKER_00:

And money. Because in Ontario, the Share the Road Coalition has launched a very big ad campaign with TV videos and all that to make to bring this uh point across. But another idea that's been put forward, which I'd love to hear your thoughts on, are is to change the road signs that say share the road, and they have a picture of a car and a bicycle, and insert in between them 1.5 meters and two little arrows pointing at each at each of the two parties. And that would be a constant reminder, like a little mini billboard that the drivers are seeing all the time, over and over, at no real significant cost, and you don't have to pay for media and TV ads or whatever. Is that something that you would support or you think would be useful?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, anecdotally, do I think that'd be useful? Sure. I I think there's anytime you're dealing with changes like this, it's got to be a multi-pronged approach. And you've got to bring in creative ideas. I like the idea of road signs. Now, one thing I have observed from talking to many, many people at the side of a road is drivers don't absorb every road sign they see, to say the least. And the more complicated you make a sign, the less likely they are to understand it. But could that be a component? Could you put it in some or on more signs? I think that's a great idea. You know, once uh once you look at the cost, it sounds to me like it could be a fairly low cost, um, effective, and again, not preachy way to get this message across. So just as we're talking here, seems like a great idea. Let's let's see if uh let's run it at the flagpole and see what happens.

SPEAKER_00:

Would you support us if we went to somebody and asked to have that to make that happen?

SPEAKER_01:

Officially, as a member of the ERCMP, I don't advocate, so I couldn't I couldn't go that far. But as a cyclist, would I like to see creative ideas like that? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

So we don't have any data, I gather, on uh say passing distance enforcement. Um, we don't know. Uh is there a way that cycling advocates and and uh safety advocates in different communities around BC could get that data or work with their local law enforcement agency, in many cases the RCMP, to educate drivers more or enforce it more? What could we be doing?

SPEAKER_01:

So yes, there I think there's different things we could be component doing. When it comes to the statistics side of things, ICBC is the best organization in BC. As police, we tend to use a couple of different databases, primarily the Prime database, also a database called TISMIT, where we collect enforcement and ticket data respectively. But it gets really complicated. Our databases aren't set up for gathering province-wide statistics. They're really set up more for detachments, individual areas, individual units to track uh to track enforcement for court purposes, first of all, and then secondly for the priorities of that community unit or detachment. So that's one of the reasons it takes ICBC quite a long time, typically a year, to vet all the information, put it all together, crunch the numbers out, make sure they're they're accurate. So certainly approaching ICBC about that is one thing for advocates that they make one avenue advocates may consider taking. In terms of local detachments and units, absolutely, there's no reason a local cycling community organization can't approach their local detachment, can't approach their local BC Highway Patrol station and ask about doing something cooperative. There are people like me whose job it is to do public relations, to do that outreach to the community. And really, my job in some respects is no different from any other police officer on the road. Public safety number one, protect life and limb number one. And if cycling advocates can come with that goal in mind and show that, hey, you know, we're doing this to protect not only current road users, but the next generation of cyclists coming up, I think that there could be a real appetite for that. Even approaching like community liaison officers working in schools might be a way of doing it. So there are many different avenues that we could take that maybe don't cost as much money. And I encourage you to get creative and get local when you're when you're trying to get these messages out.

SPEAKER_00:

I want to do a little sidebar here on you mentioned the BC Highway Patrol Office and the RCMP as though they may be different. Can you just explain the difference between the two?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, BC Highway Patrol is essentially a part of the RCMP, but what we do that's different, though we have when you when you see an RCMP officer in uniform, they're what we call a contract police officer. That means we're part of the provincial police. We're doing uh enforcement in Coquitlam, Ashcroft, communities on Vancouver Island and around the province. BC Highway Patrol doesn't have a detachment where it's answering 911 calls like those, like a place like Coquitlam. What we're doing typically is focused on numbered highways, so major arterial highways in the province, and we are doing mostly enforcement, plus, we have a mandate to do serious collisions involving fatalities and suspected criminality, where we're the primary investigating agency. So it's not as easy to walk up to a BC Highway Patrol office and propose something simply because we don't have a front counter where people approach and do a criminal records check and make a complaint, et cetera, et cetera. That tends to be a detachment. But we work hand in glove with our RCMP uh compatriots around the province. We have the same powers of arrest, the same powers of investigation, and our primary goals, which is public safety and enforcing the law, are exactly the same.

SPEAKER_00:

So you would advise if people wanted to talk to the BC Highway Patrol, if you go to your local RCMP, they that's the conduit to the highway patrol.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's a great place to start. Um you can also do a good old internet search and come up with a BC Highway Patrol uh contact on the internet. It'll probably end up in my inbox, actually. And I'll if I can't answer your question, I I know somebody who will. So yeah, we we've been approached by people in the community many times. I get multiple emails um every week and sometimes every day from interested members of the public. We try and answer everybody's questions. We try and the you know the the best service we can with the resources that we have.

SPEAKER_00:

Um You may I'm not gonna ask you, put you on the spot and ask you your thoughts on the BC government's uh pausing/slash canceling of their active transportation grants to communities to make roads safer, a mere one less than one percent of their budget. Um but one of the proposals that we've come up with is that uh, because of course they have to deal with financial pressures that are pretty extreme right now, um, to step up automated enforcement and use those revenues to pay for design improvements and bike routes and so on. What are your thoughts on automated enforcement uh red light cameras and or speed enforcement that doesn't require extra police personnel, in fact, could save money on police personnel and be effective, fair, and of course revenue generating, which I know sometimes triggers people, but still if they voluntarily break the law, they should be okay with paying a fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's a that's a serious and important conversation to have. Uh, as a police officer, I can't advocate one way or the other. Um I think these are worthy conversations. We have to figure out um that right balance between giving up some of the perceived liberty on roads so that we are safer and that we have resources to apply to whatever priorities that we want to. As a police officer and as BC Highway Patrol, we're going to enforce the laws that are out there. We're going to work with the resources you you give us as a government and as taxpayers. While we can't advocate, we do encourage creative ideas. You know, come up, come up with whatever you think is useful and we'll make it work when you tell us what that is.

SPEAKER_00:

So the RCFP has never taken a position on automated enforcement, camera enforcement.

SPEAKER_01:

Publicly, we're not taking a position now. Uh there are some times with the BC Association of Chiefs of Police where they'll come out and do some particular advocacy that where they've all worked together. But certainly as a unit, BC Highway Patrol would not do something like that. No.

SPEAKER_00:

Are the penalties for dangerous driving? And I I saw that when you were discussing the priorities of the RCNP, the priorities, they were uh Well, I'll let you say them. There were three things. Speed.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, we we tend to be uh evidence-based, data-driven. That's the that's the big thing in BC Highway Patrol these days. Consistently, the three things that cause the most fatalities on BC rows are, in no particular order, speed, distraction, and impairment. So those are our priorities when it comes to enforcement. Particularly, speed tends to be wrapped up in in almost every highway collision that we deal with. So we do a lot of enforcement around those because those are the things that are going to save the most lives. Is there room for other priorities? Sure, but those are the things that are going to be at the top of our list based on those numbers.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally understandable. Uh now I want to refer again back to Ontario, where as a result of a police officer being killed by the side of the road while riding a bicycle, um his widow, Eleanor McMahon, who's been on this podcast, lobbied for and achieved something called Greg's Law, which was heightened penalties for people driving, particularly while their license was under suspension, or I assume also impaired, distracted in other ways. Do you think that the penalties that we have in BC are sufficient to get people's attention and make a difference in safety for cyclists?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's a good question. And it's tough to say. I think the the real answer is it probably depends on the person you're you're giving enforcement to. And we all want to have blanket solutions because I think they're easier, but the truth is every situation is a little bit different. And I get to uh read into the weeds of some of the fatal collisions that you've mentioned earlier involving cyclists, for instance, in this province this year, some of the high-profile ones. And every situation is different. In some cases, cyclists are doing behavior where they're not uh they're not helping themselves. In other cases, you're dealing with motorists who are well outside the acceptable behavior uh for any any modus. We're talking like impairment, excessive speed, distraction, the very things that we mentioned earlier, which creates this incredibly sad outcome when you're hitting a vulnerable cyclist. But again, as a police officer, I can't advocate, nor can BC Highway Patrol advocate for particular penalties. We're going to work with what we've been given. I can certainly say that in the past decade, we've seen marked changes in BC around impaired driving, where we have immediate roadside prohibitions that have given us more of those tools in our tool belt, which are very useful. The excessive speeding fines and particularly the impoundment, um the impoundment powers have really dramatically increased over the past, what is it, five years? And that really stings. When you get an excessive speeding ticket, you're not just paying the ticket, which isn't around about$400. Your car is getting impounded, and you are also facing serious insurance and um and licensing premiums that can add up to two or three thousand dollars very quickly. Could there be more? I mean, I'm a police officer. I always think there could be more. So uh, you know, I I and I understand why people who've lost loved ones want more enforcement. I completely understand. That's just outside of the police purview. Our job is to enforce the law that you, the people, and our legislatures decide is appropriate.

SPEAKER_00:

You piqued my interest when you said that you have the opportunity to delve into traffic reports on some of these accidents involving cyclists. When the cyclist got killed in the Pentincton Fonda, which I've written in a couple of times myself, and has now been canceled. I'm not sure why, but we're going to find out about that in a future podcast. Um I was unable to find out what happened. Was the driver charged, convicted, fined, penalized in some way? Do you happen to know on that particular case what happened and what the outcome was?

SPEAKER_01:

I do have some information that I can't share on that case. As I understand it, it is an active investigation. Now, typically, I won't speak to that investigation in particular. I'm going to pull back because it'll be relevant to your question. When you're dealing with a serious investigation involving death and potential criminality, it is usual and expected that an investigation will take a year to two years before charges are recommended or the case is concluded, depending on what the evidence shows. So it's not a surprise from an investigator's standpoint that that hasn't been, it hasn't been concluded to this point, or there haven't been charges laid. I am hopeful, given the incredible tragedy, that that they're they that they can make some good progress and have some um, let's say, heartening or supportive news for the families that are involved. But it's not my investigation, and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to share the details that I do know, other than to say I have confidence that that is a priority investigation and they're working hard on it, as they should be.

SPEAKER_00:

So speaking of fondos, one of the issues that organized rides, cops for cancer, fondos, some celebration ride around town, typically faces very high policing costs. And I don't have the data, but I'm gonna guess that they've been going up and they're and they're probably not gonna go down. Uh, can you offer any comfort or rationale on why policing costs have to be so high and if there's anything race organizers or ride organizers can do to minimize those costs?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, there might be ways to minimize costs around route planning. Certainly, the more major routes you're you're using, the more routes you're using through major centers and arterial roads, the higher the cost is going to be. Look, policing's expensive, and I wish it weren't so expensive. But when you're when you've got one police officer on the road, you're looking at two to three hundred thousand dollars a year to maintain that officer and all their equipment and the administrative costs and the radios, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's a very expensive, uh it's a very expensive resource. Um I think it can be very effective. I think it's necessary in these large events. But I, you know, other than changing route planning and working with the municipalities, I it it that's a tricky one. How do you reduce those costs? That's up to greater minds than me, and it really depends on the particular event.

SPEAKER_00:

What frustrates you most about cyclists who disobey the law? Because there's a whole range of uh complaints we all often hear, everything from not wearing a helmet to busting red lights and stop signs, um, not right not riding with lights. As a cyclist and a law enforcement officer, where do the um where does the bad how does the bad behavior look to you and what should cyclists be doing better?

SPEAKER_01:

So two things really frustrate me. One is you are misrepresenting every other cyclist when you're acting like a jerk, and you're building rage that sh and you're building this division between car drivers and riders. It shouldn't be there. I like to say I'm a motorcyclist, I'm a driver, I'm a pedestrian, I'm a cyclist, I'm all of those things and none of those things. And I think most of us are that way. There's there's a blurred line. So acting like a jerk means other people are going to assume that other cyclists are a jerk. You're also putting yourself at risk in a battle that you're going to lose. As a cyclist, there's a certain reality, much like being on a motorcycle, you are more vulnerable. I can tell you a hundred reasons of why I love cycling, but I won't deny that it does make you more vulnerable. So do the things to make yourself more safe, your family more safe, your kids more safe. And again, try and dial down that confrontational us versus them attitude. We're all sharing the roads together, and we all benefit if everybody can treat each other with more respect and with safety in mind. Great advice.

SPEAKER_00:

Would you yesterday I talked to a cyclist who was telling me about an experience he had where he had to go out and take the lane because there was no shoulder, and he was going, he's a very serious cyclist. He was going 35k or so. A car came up beside him, and the guy rolled down the window and threw a fully loaded star cup of coffee from Starbucks in his face. He was so outraged. Are you seeing and and perhaps you could say, well, you know, he's blocking the route. What do you expect? Somebody's gonna get mad. Are people getting madder now? Is there more road rage than there used to be that again, cyclists should be aware of?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, that's that's a tough question to answer because really we have to go with anecdotal information. I would say that as roads get more crowded, and they certainly have been, you do see higher instances of rage and bad behavior. There's also a difference between saying some bad words at somebody and throwing something at them. And if somebody throws something at you as a cyclist, it's time to call the police. Like that's that's beyond uh that's beyond, you know, road rage saying nasty things to each other. Not that I think it's smart to say nasty things to each other, but at the end of the day, you know, you can walk away and everybody goes home and can tell each other what a jerk the other person was and nobody's hurt. Um but cyclists have to be aware, you know, there there, I think as you deal with more congestion, there is more potential for rage. And perhaps as a society, we don't um we don't embrace the consequences enough, the potential consequences enough of that kind of behavior. And uh it's unfortunate that we are seeing that level of rage.

SPEAKER_00:

This is not really fair to pin on you. It's not fair at all to pin on you, but I have had an interview with somebody who was hit by a car and knocked over and had a bad injury, and was told by the police officer, uh, it was a municipal officer at City of Vancouver, actually, that the cyclist had no right to be not getting out of the way, completely out of the way of that car by pulling over into little individual parking spaces and so on, uh which is contrary to the law. Do you think that police officers all fully understand the laws relating to the rights of cyclists? And are they educated in some way?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, there we are educated in some way. Do we all get it right all the time? Frankly, no. Uh sometimes we don't. And if we don't, there are mechanisms for complaint. And I encourage people, if if they have been treated poorly, if you've gotten a you know an injury like like was described just now, and you think the police officer didn't do their job, then you should let that person's supervisor know. Follow up with that. Again, I encourage people to be as measured as possible, to be as polite as possible, but also to be persistent and to let us know as supervisors, to let our bosses know if you don't think we're doing a good job. We do hold each other to account. Uh, I'm in this job in this profession because I really care passionately about trying to do the right thing and making my community safer. There is nobody more annoyed uh at a police officer acting poorly than a police officer who isn't acting poorly. So follow up. Um if we get it wrong, then we need to know and we need to do better.

SPEAKER_00:

Michael, I'm kind of out of questions. You've given some pretty good answers. And uh, is there anything else you think that cyclists and cycling advocates and people concerned about these issues should know that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. So I'd like to talk about this idea that there's a real divide between drivers and cyclists. And I think we need to do our best to shrink that divide. The reality is the majority of cyclists are drivers too, and many drivers are also cyclists or their loved ones cycle. So when you're cycling, do yourself a favor, be as safe as you can, be visible, try and obey the rules of the road, don't be a jerk. And as a driver, give more room than you think you need. Take a breath. Imagine that's somebody you know and like on the bicycle, and try and give them a bit of grace. And even if you can be 20% nicer, a 20% better driver, a 20% better cyclist, then that's an improvement. And I'd love us all to make that effort.

SPEAKER_00:

Great note to end on. We'll go to work on that, Michael. Thank you so much. Michael McLaughlin from the BC Highway Patrol, RCMP. Thanks so much for talking with us. My pleasure. Thank you, Peter. You've been listening to Bike Since, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating on whatever platform you use. You can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peter.ladner at bccycling.ca. You can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member at bccycling.ca