Roots of a Stewardship Economy - Part 2: Wahkohtowin

Welcome to the RAD Story Lodge, a podcast hosted by RAD Network. In this episode we hear about Wahkohtowin Development’s efforts to cultivate an Indigenous stewardship economy in Treaty 9 territory. In partnership with Mikro-Tek, Wahkohtowin is applying mycorrhizal fungi to tree seedlings to improve forest health and tap into a new revenue stream from carbon finance. 

David Flood and Leigh Fox bring us to the heart of the vision: where Indigenous stewardship drives economic sovereignty and opportunity, calling young people home to work in meaningful roles in their communities. Adrian Perreault offers her firsthand perspective of what it meant to her to take part in the work as a Guardian and her journey bringing that knowledge home to her community.

Listen to Part 1: The Fungal Factor to learn more about Mikro-Tek and their innovative mycorrhizal technology. 

This episode was produced by Arina Isaeva (Wolf Eye Productions) and co-hosted by Randi Russell, Amberly Quakegesic and Delta Flood, with music by Digging Roots. 

Links:

• Linked episode: Roots of a Stewardship Economy - Part 1: The Fungal Factor
• Video: Wahkohtowin & Mikro-Tek
• Wahkohtowin website: www.wahkohtowin.com 
• Mikro-Tek website: https://www.mikro-tek.com/ 
• RAD Network resources: https://radnetwork.ca/tools-and-reports/
• RAD Network mailing list: http://eepurl.com/iNvdM6
• RAD Network socials: Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook

Transcript

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Episode 5: Roots of a Stewardship Economy - Part 2: Wahkohtowin

Randi Russell: Oki and hello. Welcome to the Rad Story Lodge, a place where you will hear stories from the land and learn from Indigenous communities who are advancing regenerative economies and reshaping the way we think about conservation. 

Last episode in the RAD Story Lodge, Mark Kean from MikroTek told us about a groundbreaking technology using mycorrhizal fungi as a nature-based solution in forestry.  Now, In Part 2, we hear how this approach is being applied through a partnership with Wahkohtowin Development to generate carbon offsets in the Boreal Forest of Treaty 9 territory. 

David Flood and Leigh Fox break down how the project supports Wahkohtowin’s vision for an Indigenous stewardship economy — including reinvesting carbon revenue into its Guardian Program which supports cultural connection and skill building through land-based learning. We’ll also get to hear a firsthand perspective from one Guardian, Adrian Perreault, about what this work has meant to her.

In addition, we’ll explore the policy challenges and opportunities ahead, as Wahkohtowin advocates for clearer pathways for Indigenous Nations to both lead and benefit from the carbon projects happening in their own territories.

David: Hello. Hello. Good evening, boozhoo, aanii, waaciye. My name is David Flood, nindizhinikaaz Zonzei Maiingun, Matachewan First Nation nindonjibaa. My spirit name is Strong Wolf and I'm from Matachewan First Nation.

Leigh: My name is Leigh Fox. I grew up at the mouth of the Fraser River where all the canoes would go by for two weeks. They say every time the sockeye harvest came and then it would be two weeks on the way out. Families would come from all around. That's the story that I got from an old timer out that way. I have a background in conservation, finance, carbon finance, project development. I've been in the forestry industry for 25 years. So I bring some of these capabilities and been working with David quite closely on the Mikro-Tek Wahkohtowin led, mycorrhizal inoculation carbon project. 

Randi: “My-co-ri-zal inoculation carbon project” - that is quite the mouthful. Let’s recap what this means:

Beneath the forest floor, trees are linked by a living underground network. Mycorrhizal fungi attach to their roots through a symbiotic relationship, allowing trees to exchange nutrients and signals to support growth and survival. When trees are harvested for timber, mycorrhizal fungi can become depleted from the soil. Mikro-Tek harnesses this natural partnership by inoculating seedlings with these beneficial fungi before planting — boosting survival, accelerating growth, and increasing carbon storage.

Working with Mikro-Tek, Wahkohtowin is applying this through a project in the Boreal Forest to support forest health and generate a new carbon-credit revenue stream for First Nations communities. 

David: It's useful for our First Nations communities because it's a naturally occurring function in the environment. So for our communities to warm up to the idea of utilizing that kind of technology that already exists as long as it's done in a well, I would say in a healthy way, a supportive way that it actually does add benefit back to the ecosystem resiliency. There's issues around fire and future forest volume and just all those things around climate change and ecosystem integrity that the mycorrhizal relationship yet to be fully on unfolded. But this is a start and a dabble into a space where, again, I say a chance to benefit in the economy off the forest.

We call it the conservation economy. So we're not taking the antlers and the hind end of the moose. Mycorrhizal participation and this diversifying the economy of the forest. This is us working on other aspects of deriving the economy. And when I say the antlers and the rear end of the moose, I'm talking about the lumber industry and the pulp and paper industry. 'cause when they do their harvest, they call it the just harvest, it's unjust because they're not fully utilizing the value of the disturbance they're making and neither are they putting back something that's more meaningful. And this is a chance for us to take that stewardship responsibility.

Leigh: It's also interesting the connection between the technology. It's not available anywhere else in Canada on a commercial scale. Mikro-Tek is the only company that has the license to deploy this in the working forest landscape. And it's being led by three indigenous communities that have a vision for a broader deployment.

So you think about like Silicon Valley or Bangalore and India are places where there are tech centers and innovation and development and it's, you've got people that have been stewarding the land as far back as time goes, and who are also advancing the highest technology in bringing back mature mycorrhizal networks that help with restoration, that help with forest growth, that help with forest health.

And so it's a really neat place to be, where, advancing, not just from a rights perspective but from a technology perspective like this is very, very forefront of this, both in the research area, right? You look at some of the work being done out of UBC and other places and the way that trees communicate with one another through these mycorrhizal networks and how the ectomycorrhiza get knocked right back when a harvest happens.

So this is putting it back while the trees are going back. Is it the same immediately as a mature forest? No. And this is where the conservation economy touches into working landscapes is clear-eyed and realistic on where jobs come from, but also looks to create new jobs in the forest sector, innovate ways of doing things that don't need chemicals and this all connects to that.

David: Yeah, and just to, to supplement on the access to the technology for anyone else in Canada to actually isolate a form of mycorrhiza and be able to deploy it under licensed regulation under Canada's rules, it would take five years. So we've got a leg up and into this game.

Unfortunately over the years, you know, the whole 20 years goes by and the change of governments, change of attitudes around, how urgent is the risk of climate change impacts. Like Mark has been working on that technology and deploying it for over 20 years and it just hasn't stuck in Canada and it looks like it might do it now.

And, you know, he's been very plain and straightforward and always understood that this would only work with the participation of First Nations. So I met Mark 15 years ago when he was knocking on communities' doors, trying to collaborate with them to join him and making this technology come and be part of the forest management regime.

And that's where I met him. I met him a long time ago, and when he found out I was working with three communities, he came back knocking on the door. So it's, uh, it's kind of come full circle. It comes after the Truth and Reconciliation commission at the same time, the Calls To Action.

So there's so many things like on the kaleidoscope wheel that are lining up that says, good, good. And we keep passing these gates of this looks like it's gonna go. And, uh, we've pre-sold credits off the work we've done so far without actually being able to deliver a credit and the money's being accrued in an escrow account.

 there's a lot of door knocking going on and people are hungry to buy into the technology and want to participate in it. But we're holding kind of true to the vision that we want this to be, broadcast across the Boreal Forest and many communities can benefit from this.

You might've heard about the National Guardian Network, the Guardian program. That's the kind of thing that can happen with this. This creates localized jobs and economy for lands and resource departments to go out and do the monitoring work necessary and much, much more. I mean, this is like just the turning of the key to open up the box of opportunity. 

Delta: So when you hear of “nature-based solutions”, what does that make you think of? 

David: A tool and an instrument to help us accelerate tearing down colonialism. It allows us to get on with some unfinished business of how we can equally participate in the benefits derived from the forest and land and the environment in a meaningful way and lead in stewardship responsibilities to help address the issues of climate change. 

Leigh: These are market mechanisms to, instead of only valuing the extraction of things from the ecosystem, it's a way to value the addition of things or the restoration of things. That's part of a new paradigm. It's not just extract, it's not just take out and it's not necessarily saying “stop all of that”, but it's the, and, and do better here and have better standards for restoration.

We need functioning ecosystems. We all need them. And, we're whatever's coming at us, which is a whole lot of unknown and uncertainty. You can go across the country. You can talk about anecdotal stories of where I grew up, the sky never went, smokey with forest fires. As long as I can remember I don't remember a time that like for a week the sky was not blue on a sunny day. And in the last 10 years, that's happened a few times and sometimes so thick that you can barely see 300 meters in front of you. So is that anecdotal? Is that cyclical? Is that always happening?

I don't know. Ask the people that have been here for a long time and if they're sounding the alarm bells, then you know, the way that ecosystems heal is by being diverse and resilient to whatever comes. And if you're doing monocultures and you're taking away all your old growth and you don't have any of the support stuff because it's not valuable in the context of extraction, you're not doing it right.

David: Kinda gets to these other words around adaptation. Preparedness. But again, how can we be adaptive when we're holding out our hands to the feds saying we need money to be adaptive. We need money to build readiness. Just after 30 plus years as an indigenous practicing forester, trying to see if industry and government will do the right things. They're not ever going to, it's not in their purview. It's not in their mandates. Just not, not, it's not in their DNA as profit maximizing companies. 

The systemic racism that still exists today. I mean, even though the percentages of populists that believe indigenous people should be supported better, invested in better, you know, it’s always been 60% or better, the Canadian population, sometimes higher, that they support these additional resources going into First Nations. There's acknowledgement of that. Never higher, it's been higher after the TRC, but Indian Affairs is not gonna do it. Indigenous Service Canada, they're not structured to do that. 

And so they, there needs to be this devolution away from the Indian Act and allowing of a belief that, you know, our families, our communities used to govern and structure ourselves in such a way, how we used to take care of our own trap grounds. A group of people had a responsibility of a ground, an area. Right now, can we do it as nations that are, have been stuck on federal land bases for a hundred years? Uh, you know, and regrow governance over a million hectares of traditional territory and build lands and resources and through guardian plan, guardian development and, calling people home because 80% of the people live off reserve? Well, that's an experiment I'm worth putting my time, energy and effort into because it's the right thing to do. 

Delta: What policy and ​legal barriers are impeding the mycorrhizal carbon project? 

Leigh: Well, from a federal perspective. So there's a few things to talk about there. There are voluntary side mechanisms and protocols that we could certify against. There are some barriers potentially with the province and atmospheric benefit sharing agreements in some protocols. Those are not barriers. There's a, we call it a regulatory risk in that the regulations are not clear on how to dimension and develop projects like this.

The Mikro-Tek project specifically, I would say the biggest barriers are a lack of a federal protocol. So the feds have an IFM Improved Forest Management protocol on private land that is available now, it's published.

They're developing the IFM protocol on public land, also known as “Crown Land”. But we can talk about whether the King of England really owns it. The public land protocol has some additional elements to it that need sort of deep thought and consideration. And one of them being consent. So there are traditional rights holders on all land in Canada, and in order for a project developer, whether they be indigenous or non-indigenous, to develop a project consultation and Free, Prior and Informed Consent of traditional rights holders.

It's a fundamental piece of it. So the federal government right now, and David's involved in some of this work in the working group, are trying to figure out how to set up the rules and referee the game on consent.

Randi: The work is well underway. 15 million inoculated seedlings are already in the ground, and by this fall, that number will increase to 40 million. These trees will be sequestering more carbon thanks to the  mycorrhizal inoculations. But without clarity on carbon ownership rights, the offsets might not be certified, meaning lost revenue for the host nations. 

As it stands, there is no clear policy framework to address carbon rights in Ontario, and the provincial government has been unwilling to engage in developing an agreement. Yet, Wahkohtowin and RAD Network continue to advocate for change. Ultimately, Wahkohtowin's tireless advocacy could be a game changer for indigenous-led carbon projects across the country. Check out the show notes for links to learn more about jurisdiction and policy implications.

Leigh: I think fundamentally, carbon rights, and I'll use a normative statement here, should be vested with the traditional use rights holders and as we develop our mycorrhizal inoculation project.

That's the premise, that's the foundation, is that ecosystem service markets should benefit First Nations and indigenous communities. There are other co-benefits that happen. There are biodiversity co-benefits. There are benefits that other stakeholders like forest companies will get out of this type of project.

Corporate calls to action on reconciliation. This is something that connects to the work, and we've got some really good industrial partners that are very forward thinking on this kind of stuff. There are a number of ways that Wahkohtowin, our owner nations or First Nations that are participating, in this project or other projects will benefit.

The obvious one is as an equity shareholder, so it's our carbon project, it's on owner nation traditional territory. We're gonna get a hundred percent of the carbon revenue. There's opportunities for, say, a youth Guardian program or a Guardian program on a particular nation, whether it's our three owner nations or one that we're a sister nation with, or one from across the country that we're partnered with because we have the means of production for this mycorrhizal technology.

There's an opportunity for those nations if they want to be the project developer, be the one that does the monitoring, reporting, verification work. It's out on the land with Guardian programs to check the camera traps, the insect monitors, the bird monitors, the carbon plots. There's, within a project, there's all sorts of activities, and the question is, who wants to do those? Who should do those? 

David: we run a young guardian program for more of the high school and early college age group, and it's rekindling cultural revitalization and giving that sense of spiriting where they're from, their community, who they are, you know, as they get ready to learn their bundles, what are their gifts and what are they gonna go off to school and do, and possibly, hopefully come back to their communities feeling stronger and more entitled in an advocacy role.

We're trying to spirit the advocacy in them at a young age. But every time my Guardians come in from the end of the day in the bush, I don't just ask them, did you do the veg index? How was veg index? I said, did you see an animal? What wildlife did you see? Did you see any running water? Have you seen any flowers or plants you've never seen before?

Did you take pictures of them so you could come back and identify them? Did you guys run into any blueberry patches? Where's the blueberries? How come you didn't pick 'em? Who's gonna bring blueberries back to their kookom tonight? I never asked my Guardians just to go out and do one thing. And that's, again, what this allows for is this further diversification into that conservation economy where you just went out and sprayed a block, but then you're gonna go over there and pick the mushrooms that you sprayed the year before in another block.

And then, you know, it's a whole cycle of opportunity to, uh, I guess make being in the forest an aspiration for more people as something worth doing, gets us out of the house, off the electronic devices and, and more back connected to the land. And, you know, it's certainly something we're hearing over and over again at the Indigenous Land Symposium: I heal when I'm on the land. I heal when I'm on the land. I feel better when I'm on the land. Well, let's go on the land. 

Leigh: There's an agency that's built. So when you don't spend a lot of time on the land and you get out and you walk around, it's a new environment, you're unsure of what's going on, you're unsure of even how to walk out there. But the more time you spend out there, the more comfortable you are. The more you integrate with the environment, the more things you see when you've walked a hundred thousand steps through a landscape.

Walking isn't the challenge anymore. Your eyes can come up. Your eyes can go down. Your eyes can look around. You can observe what's going on, and then you look over seasons. One of the things that you know when growing up back home, but particularly with my tree planting and silviculture buddies that I spent a lot of time with, we observe seasons we love. Like on the coast, we're always out salmon fishing or pruning and you watch cycles.

What are the sea lions doing right now? What's in town? When did the Turkey vultures come? Are they early or are they late? Disagreements about that. When did the night hawks come? When does this nesting season start? What happened to the mushrooms this year? All of those sorts of things, and every place has those cycles to observe and different migratory species and different characteristics to the place. 

David: I think most people nowadays, Leigh, my concern is most people lack the wellbeing to be able to just have that kind of information in their brain. They'd love to have that information in their brain. They'd love to be out having those experiences. But the way the world is run right now, and I mean we've seen it even in our Guardian programs, the sort of, there is a stress, there is a duress to being able to go out and do all those magical things that were just incumbent within our role as stewards of the land.

That's who we were as people, the data recorders through lived experience. Right? The knowledge holders through lived experience. And I think, I'll never forget when I was down at, uh. Oh, which COP was it? I'm gonna say COP 10 in Montreal. It was my first sort of look and exposure to council of the parties on climate change, and I was getting ready to go back to the gala, so I was back in my room changing. The news came on, I had the TV on, and I'll never forget after being at the assembly, looking at all the reports on the hockey stick of climate change, the temperature increase and then in the hotel room.

And all of a sudden, this is where the new words, mental wellbeing, mental health came up and that was hitting the news, you know, mental health, mental health, mental wellbeing, and all of a sudden that hockey stick matched exactly the line of climate change, the angle of it. So I've always been of the mind that we as Indigenous people ​suffer the most when the environment is being harmed the most because we've always been close to it inherently.

As a people or those people around the world that are inherently closer to land in the natural environment, in the most wildest states. And then the craziest part is, and this is how humans work, is when you feel frustrated and you're helpless and you can't do anything, what's your first inclination? Take control and harm yourself. What do you do? Grab the whiskey, grab the pill. Because you can control that and it makes the pain go away 'cause you feel like, I can't be out on the land. I can't find that job. I can't exist the way I want to be. I'm just speculating, but I don't think I'm far off on this one.

And that again, why is everyone saying I want to be on the land? So I can get rid of that stuff, so I can be healthy and hit the highlights that Leigh here was talking about. That's freedom. That is not a burden, that's freedom. What he was just talking about.

Delta: It absolutely is. I don't get out enough. My getting out on the land, at least I'm out in the middle of the land. Hmm. And I stand on my deck but it's not quite the same as being right in the middle of the forest. 

Leigh: So how do you bridge that gap then? How do you go from, what the duress that you're talking about to, you're almost a bridge builder at that point.

David: Mm-hmm. 

Leigh: How do you build bridges to take those first steps back onto the land? 

David: I've been noodling over that for some time now. And it sounds weird, but bear with me when I take this little trip with everyone. You know, the detox centers and the healing centers. You go to these buildings and you got helpful people around you and you're talking about things.

And I find that human beings do better when they do stuff. When they're literally doing something and it leads to the next thing that they're gonna need. And when people go away to these healing centers, they come back, okay. Balanced maybe a little bit on the right track. But are they, are they set up to do the next thing? Which might be, feel like they have a job or feel like they have a purpose or feel like they got something that's gonna take them to be the next step of being well is self providing. Or maybe they're a father or a mother and they need access to entry level jobs and skills.

So I kind of came up with this idea from forestry in a silviculture work environment where these are not menial jobs. These are jobs that actually have a sense of pride in because of what you're actually doing out there when you put it in the right context.

But my thinking was, I used the phrase, “get on the bus program”. So my thinking is, you know, you run 6, 10 people and you have a special built bus or a motor home of some kind where you're shipping people out to go out and do silviculture work on a weekly basis, supported by, you know, a truck that has, the saws and the gas and all that other stuff.

But the point is it'll always come by your house and pick you up. So all you gotta do is walk outside and just get on the bus. Doesn't matter how good or a bad day that you're having, but you know, you want to be on the land. So just get on the bus and if you go out there and have a bad day, well it's still a bad day on the land as opposed to sitting in your, your house where you might be more susceptible to go back into a harm cycle and eventually you'll, you'll find that path of one feeling better, getting better, purposing yourself with all the different skills and all about making some money, and then, maybe being coached on how to be better with money, to get to the next thing that you want to be doing.

But that bus is always gonna come by the house and get on the bus. And I really think the communities need that kind of integrated programming. 'cause what happens is they come home. They'll always come home and then they usually cycle back into it 'cause it's still in community.

So to break it, you need to give them that full opportunity, that life cycle of change. And then the other one is for those that you know, they get on the bus and they're really ramped up. Then we've thought about these six pack trucks, nice big three quarter ton truck loaded up with all the silviculture tools and they just every day go out and have a job to do and they come back with a load of firewood for the elders.

They can come back with a moose in the back, but as long as they hit their silviculture targets, you know what I mean? And they made the money off the job of doing the silviculture treatment, which benefited the moose and benefited the nature-based solution and the carbon project.

Like this is how indigenous people think and do. And I've been bouncing this off Leigh quite a bit. 

Delta: I can see how that would be a big benefit. When we started talking, I'm like, an adult Guardian program, maybe? 

David: It's like that. I mean, everybody's a Guardian. I mean, we kind of concluded that if you have a spirit of stewardship and there's a desire for that, then you're your guardian. You care for Mother Earth. So, sure, they deserve a Land Needs Guardian t-shirt at the end of the day.

Delta: And that actually works out really well because there's a lot of people who come back who don't have access to vehicles. So it would get them out there to be able to do those things that I've heard many want to do, but they just can't get out there as much as they want.

Leigh: There's lots of barriers, right? I don't have the equipment. I don't have lunch for the day, I don't have, and that's where they get on the bus and everything's taken care of. And so the full-time Guardian workers can help support that. There would also be another crew working in parallel working beside doing all sorts of production work.

And that, lead by example, right by example. So maybe there's a day when you're having a bad day and maybe there's a future where there's mental health support there. And maybe you get on the bus and you spend most of the day in the bus, but for part of the day you get off the bus and you go walk down the road and you see other people in your community that have just pulled in a $500 day and are exhausted and coming back that were in the same place you were a year ago or something.

And so that sort of experiential touch point that you're doing what you can and, it's not a straight path, but that support can be there in different ways and that's dimension by, community and by, you know, leaders like David. 

Delta: And I can see that working for those people that, maybe aren't addicts, but just the mental health. Sometimes you fall into the mental health and you don't become an addict, but you need to get out there and that would be amazing. 

David: Your conditions are the same. 

Leigh: Yep. It may not be a concurrent disorder, it may not have a drug addiction component, but there's, uh, you gotta get outta your house. 

David: Get on the bus.

Leigh: Depression is a real thing out there. Youth and adolescent mental health issues have spiked. Lots of data, lots of research out there. I'm sure it's no different and probably more exacerbated in isolated communities. Yeah. so you look at what are potential solutions for that.

Randi: As David and Leigh explained, the revenue from the carbon project would be reinvested in Wahkohtowin's Guardian program, creating jobs and opportunities for youth to reconnect with culture and stewardship responsibilities. And in fact, Guardians have already played an important role in the project.

Let's hear from Adrian  Perreault, a Guardian who supported field measurements for Wahkohtowin and Mikro-Tek in 2022.

Adrian: Aniin, Adrian nindizhinikaaz. My name is Adrian. I am from Kitigan Zibi, Garden River First Nation, Crane Clan. I'm a granddaughter, I'm a sister, I'm an auntie to two beautiful boys.  I'm a beader and I work for my nation in the Lands and Resources department as a Water Projects Coordinator. So, that's me. 

Amberly: Beautiful. I love that introduction. 

I know you were a guardian and you were doing some Mikro-Tek stuff, and you know, a lot of the conversation around here has been about like cultural revitalization or nature-based solutions. What does that mean to you? 

Adrian:  So right after I finished college, yeah. I got, uh, the opportunity to move up to Chapleau for the summer. Um. I knew that's where I was supposed to be, like in the bushes where, where I want my career to go and being in the culture too, like that was one of the first really big pushes.

'cause you know, I grew up outside of it. My dad didn't grow up really spiritual or anything like that, but, um, going up there and doing ceremony and singing and just being around other youth and teachers just like, made a big change, shifted my mindset and, it helped me a lot.

Adrian: The work was hard at times. You know, some long days doing the Mikro-Tek stuff, but it was a really, um, inspiring project I would say. I never even knew, like I knew a little bit about mycorrhiza and stuff like that. But being there, going in the lab and Mark showing me like, ‘oh yeah, this is how, this is this’ and all that. That was so cool. ‘This is how we do this to the seedlings.’ And then actually going out, I don't know if it was just me, but I thought I could tell these trees were definitely inoculated, like growing better. And I just thought it was really cool. And you could see, and just the fact that, they partnered with an indigenous organization. I just thought that that's really important work. 

I actually went and worked for Missanabie as Climate Change Solutions Coordinator. So I was doing all sorts of fun stuff there. Lots of species at risk work and invasive species work. My experience as a Guardian really helped me get that job in community. And then after Missanabie, then I got to go home and now I'm working for my own community, which was my end goal.

And it means so much to me. ​It's just been, like, amazing working for my own community because, like paddling the same rivers that my ancestors paddled and wading in the same waters and walking these trails and just like being in the bush and being like, oh my gosh. Talking with my coworkers, like our ancestors were here before. You know how crazy that is? It looks untouched, but you know, they've been around. So yeah, I have to thank Wahkohtowin for a lot of that because it kind of pushed me into this work and, uh, yeah. 

Amberly: I can relate to that in a lot of ways too.

Adrian: Mm-hmm. 

Amberly: Um, sometimes I joke about it being like a, like a tornado, you know the symbol. And once you're in it, you're kind of always a part of it. You're part of the family. Yeah. Yeah. It's very cool.

Adrian: If someone's thinking about being a guardian, take the opportunity. Working out on the land and learning from all these knowledge holders and starting out in a little innovation center in Chapleau. And then, go home and work for your own community, learn that knowledge and bring it home.

And, like I've said so many times, like I've met some of my bestest friends when I was a guardian. Really it, it's been really important in my life journey, a really important part of it. And I'm always grateful that I made that choice to randomly move to Chapleau, working in the natural environment because, as I said on my panel a bunch of times, like capacity in the Lands Department, it's so hard to keep. But having those people working for our own communities and, keep going, doing this work, it means everything. So yeah, I recommend this to anybody.

Amberly: Amazing. And you know, we were talking with Tess just the other day, and we all know Tess is amazing and she was sharing a little bit about how, if you have a good heart and you're gonna do something in a good way, but you're afraid to do it. If your intentions are good, you might be risking the wrong person doing that in your place. It was something like that. Yeah. So like, it's like you should be, if you have a good heart and maybe you feel underqualified or whatever your criticisms are of yourself. Yeah. Give her a go. I agree with you.

Adrian: Yes. It's all about, yeah. And how elder Joe Jones said as an Anishinaabe people love is in our heart. So, and we have to protect our inheritance that we've been gifted with. It's such a gift to walk this earth. So. I'll do anything to, uh, keep it pristine and fix it, you know, like remediate the things that we've done for our future generations and make sure that my kids and my kids' kids and so forth get the opportunities that I do to be on the beautiful land.

Randi: Thank you for listening to the RAD Story Lodge. 

If you enjoyed today’s episode and want to learn more, check out the show notes for links to a short film and a written case study on Wahkohtowin’s mycorrhizal project. Wondering how this could apply in your territory? Reach out to RAD Network for a wayfinding conversation. 

To learn more, visit radnetwork.ca, follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn, and be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode.

This episode was produced by Arina Isaeva from Wolf Eye Productions and hosted by Randi Russell with Delta Flood and Amberly Quakegesic. 

We’d like to extend a huge thank you to award-winning duo Raven and Shashana of Digging Roots for the incredible music featured in this episode and to all the RAD team members who have helped to make the podcast happen. The RAD story lodge is made possible with funding support from Environment and Climate Change Canada. 

Leigh: I know you have some things that you wanna be talking about, 

David: like our plans to overrule the world.

Delta: Yeah, 

Leigh: yeah.