Bonus Episode: Making Hard Conversations Easier with the DEAR MAN Skill

Making requests, saying no, and having hard conversations is part of all relationships. And it's rather easy to see how common misunderstandings and conflict ensues in our interpersonal relationships.  That's because we are not born with accurate and effective communications skills. This mini bonus episode is about learning and practicing the DBT skill called DEAR MAN.  This is a conversation between Leslie and her producer, Alletta Cooper where they give an in-depth description of what the skill is and then how to put it into practice.

Time Stamps

1:41 DEAR MAN GIVE FAST is the DBT acronym to help us communicate accurately and more effectively

• DEAR MAN - The goal is to get your objective met
• GIVE Skills - The goal is about tending to the relationship
• FAST Skills - The goal is to focus on your self-respect

4:51 DEARMAN skill described in detail

• 4:51 D = Describe the facts - the who, what, when and where
• 5:35 E = Express your feelings 
• 5:55 A = Ask for what you want - make your request
• 7:03 R = Reinforce what’s in it for the other person
• 7:55 M = Maintain your focus 
• 8:28 A = Appear confident
• 8:32 N = Negotiate if necessary -sometimes you have to give a little to get what you want

6:40 Using the skill helps you stay in wise mind

9:32 Role play not using the DEAR MAN skill

11:29 Role play using the DEAR MAN skill

14:38 Timing is an important factor when having difficult conversation

15:10 Using time limits on having conversation is often very effective

16:52 When to use DEAR MAN 

19:00 Write it down and practice it over and over again

Resources:  

Leslie’s Handout on DEAR MAN DBT Skill based on example in the bonus episode and worksheet for practice

DEARMAN How to communicate Assertively - DBT-RU

DBT Skill: The Most Effective Way to Make a Request by Sunrise Treatment Center

For a full transcript of this episode and more information about the host visit https://lesliecohenrubury.com/podcasts/ . You can also follow Leslie’s work on Facebook,  Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Join the conversation with your own questions and parenting experiences.

Credits: Is My Child a Monster? is produced by Alletta Cooper, Camila Salazar, and Leslie Cohen-Rubury. Theme music is by L-Ray Music. Graphics and Website Design by Brien O’Reilly. Transcriptions by Eric Rubury.  A special thanks to everyone who contributes their wisdom and support to make this possible.

Transcript

[Music: The Wilds Beyond by L-Ray Music]

[00:00:00] Leslie Cohen-Rubury: A lot of times we have these difficult conversations over and over and over again; and they don't go anywhere and they just keep escalating. So when you have those difficult conversations, this is when you want to get out your DEAR MAN skill.

[00:00:21] Leslie: Hello and welcome to a bonus mini-episode of Is My Child A Monster?, where we reinforce skills we've just talked about in the previous episode. This bonus episode is about Dialectic Behavior Therapy, communication skills. DEAR MAN, GIVE, FAST. I know it sounds funny, but we'll explain it in a little bit. I'm Leslie Cohen-Rubury. And no, your child is not a monster, just misunderstood. 

In the recent episode with Nicky and AJ, they had some difficult conversations, and it was quite emotional. And we could see that when they use these communication skills, it made a big difference. So in those episodes, I refer to the GIVE skill, the DEAR MAN skill—we're going to go into that in this mini-episode.

So as a reminder, this show is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for therapeutic intervention. 

My producer, Alletta Cooper, is here today to practice DEAR MAN with me. 

[00:01:23] Leslie: Hi, Alletta. 

[00:01:25] Alletta: Hi, Leslie. DEAR MAN is one of my absolute favorite DBT skills, so I am delighted to be here. 

[00:01:31] Leslie: Great. We're going to practice together.

[00:01:34] Alletta: Excellent. Why don't you start us off by just telling us what DEAR MAN, GIVE, FAST mean. 

[00:01:40] Leslie: Okay, so first of all, if you're trying to figure out what it means, it's an acronym. All those letters stand for something, and Marsha Linehan loves her acronyms in Dialectic Behavior Therapy. So these are interpersonal skills to help us communicate accurately.

It's really important to try our best to communicate our needs, our desires, our perspectives as accurately as possible. And it's confusing and it's not easy. That's why there's a ton of misunderstanding. These skills are going to help us reduce some of that misunderstanding, where it creates conflict. 

So if you think about these, our three skills…DEAR MAN is one skill. GIVE is skill number two, and FAST is skill number three. DEAR MAN, GIVE, FAST. In each of the skills, we are trying to accomplish something. There's a goal. 

The goal of the DEAR MAN skill is to get your objective met. If I want to ask this person—my child, my partner, a friend—to clear their dishes, if I want to return something at customer service, if I want to ask my boss for a raise, those are all objectives. I'm trying to get my objective met. That's when we use our DEAR MAN skills. 

[00:03:06] Alletta: It can also be relational objectives too, not just tangible. I'm trying to get a thing. It can be if my limit has been violated and I want to repair the relationship.

[00:03:15] Leslie:  I agree with you completely. So, for example, oftentimes my objective is to be heard. I just want to make sure someone understands me. The GIVE skills, which I talk a lot about in episode 2 of Nicky and AJ, the GIVE skills are about tending to the relationship. Sometimes we have an objective to be met and we also have the relationship to consider, like, how do I want this person to feel at the end of the interaction? If I care about how I want this person to feel, I'm going to use my GIVE skills. 

The last set of skills, which are the FAST skills, focus on the goal of taking care of your self-respect, making sure that you're thinking about yourself as well as your objective, the relationship, and getting to think about yourself.

So those are the three goals. Those are the three skills. 

[00:04:13] Alletta: So, if I'm understanding correctly, DEAR MAN is about meeting an objective. GIVE is about meeting the emotional needs and taking care of the person you're talking to. And FAST is about meeting your own emotional needs and taking care of yourself.

[00:04:24] Leslie: Isn't that great?

[00:04:26] Alletta: It's amazing. I love it. 

[00:04:29] Leslie: So I think in today's example, you'll see that we might be prioritizing the objective, to demonstrate how you use the DEAR MAN and how do you get your objective met. And by the way, because this is an audio, if you are a visual learner, go to the show notes because we have handouts for this skill.

[00:04:49] Alletta: So, do you want to tell us what each of those letters stand for? 

[00:04:51] Leslie: Okay, so the D stands for describe. You are going to describe the facts of the situation, the who, what, when, and where. You're going to really do a good job to keep out your judgments. “You never help clean up the dishes, you never listen to me.” We're going to try to leave out all those judgments and just stick to the facts. That's the D: describe objectively what's going on. 

[00:05:17] Alletta: And that's so that everyone knows they're all starting from the same place, having all the information. Because half the time a miscommunication is just that you are working with different information. 

[00:05:26] Leslie: Exactly. So all of these steps help reduce the misunderstandings and the conflict arising.

Okay. The D is: describe. E is: express. Express your opinion, express your emotion, express how you feel. And boy, many, many people skip that step. 

[00:05:45] Alletta: And that's mostly “I” statements, right? 

[00:05:46] Leslie: Yes. 

[00:05:47] Alletta: I feel. Not saying, you make me feel, it's just saying I feel.

[00:05:50] Leslie:. That's exactly right. So it's expressing how you feel. A is: the ask. It's asserting your request. So, it's making a request, but it's the ask. It's: what do you want from this person? What are you asking of them, so that it's really clear. As I said before, I might be asking for them to clear their dishes. I might be asking to be heard, just to have an opportunity to share my feelings.

I might be asking to, like you were saying, set a limit with someone. So there's a request when we do a DEAR MAN. This is the important request. And it's not always easy to figure out what is my request.

[00:06:33] Alletta: That's why I love doing this as a worksheet because it really helps me clarify my own thinking around what I'm trying to communicate.

[00:06:40] Leslie: Yes, this skill helps you stay in wise mind. If you sit down and say, “I'm going to write this out—my DEAR MAN—before I have that difficult conversation,” you are putting yourself into a wise mind state so that you're not trying to talk to someone while all the emotion is really big and very intense. So this is to help you get into a wise mind state. And yes, I really suggest you write it down.

Okay. The R, which is my favorite part, is: reinforce what is in it for the other person. So if I'm asking you to listen to me, why do you want to listen to me? What's in it for you? And this is really important because when we ask someone to do something, they've got to have a reason why they want to do it. Maybe because I'm going to ask you to clean the dishes—I don't think you like me nagging. If you do the dishes, you are going to get a lot less nagging from me, and I think you're going to appreciate that. That's a really nice reinforcement. Or I'm looking to be heard because I know we feel closer and you've been feeling a little distant.

This is something we can do. If you can listen to me now, I think that we'll be feeling closer. So it reinforces what's in it for them. 

[00:07:54] Alletta: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:55] Leslie: The MAN is actually how you do it. The DEAR, are your four steps. The MAN is, starting with the M: maintain your mindfulness. Stay focused. Stay mindful. So don't get tangential and bring up the past and bring up all these other times. Really keep your focus. That's maintain mindfulness. 

[00:08:18] Alletta: And that's one of the reasons it's so great to write it out ahead of time, because it can really help you maintain that focus. 

[00:08:24] Leslie: Exactly. You stick to your script. A is: appear confident. Fake it till you make it. And the N is: negotiate. Sometimes we have to give a little to get a little, and sometimes when I can't figure out how to problem-solve something, I might say, “Hey, I've got this problem. Can you help me figure out how to solve it? It's my problem. Can you help me?” That's getting them involved. That's the negotiation, it's turning the tables so that they're more willing to maybe do what you're asking them to do. So that's the DEAR MAN. Those are the steps. 

[00:08:58] Alletta: I love that. 

[00:08:59] Leslie: Shall we take an example? 

[00:09:01] Alletta: Let's do it. 

[00:09:03] Leslie: Let's do it. Would you be my, um, teenager? 

[00:09:07] Alletta: Sure. 

[00:09:08] Leslie: Okay, great. And I'd like to play it two ways. I'd like to play it unskillfully, you know, just the way I might do it if I didn't have the DEAR MAN skill under my belt. And then we're going to do it with the DEAR MAN skill. 

[00:09:21] Alletta: Sounds good. I can be a surly teenager. 

[00:09:24] Leslie: Okay, here we go. So here's the situation, just to set the stage. You are on your screen, you're a teenager, it's just about to get time to have dinner, and it's time for you to get off your screen. 

“Hey, Alletta. Alletta. Alletta, I need your attention for just a minute, sweetie.” 

[00:09:21] Alletta: “Hold on, hold on. I'm in the middle of something.”

[00:09:47] Leslie: “Alletta, i's time to get off your screen and it's time to come to dinner. “

[00:09:51] Alletta: “I am in the middle of a conversation with my friend. We are trying to plan our outfits for the event this weekend, and I don't have time for this right now. We are really in the middle of this thing.” 

[00:09:59] Leslie: “Alletta., a dinner is so important to us. Come on sweetie. Come on. Get off that. You are always on it.” 

[00:10:04] Alletta: “Just save me a plate. I'll eat it later. I'm not hungry anyway.” 

[00:10:06] Leslie: “Alletta, how often do you join us for dinner? Once a week, maybe.” 

[00:10:09] Alletta: “Mom, I am really busy. Don't you know this is important to me.” 

[00:10:13] Leslie: “I know it's important. Don't you know that dinner's important to me?”

[00:10:19] Alletta: “I'm, I, I can't walk away from this. Cheryl's in a crisis.”

[00:10:21] Leslie: “…and Cheryl's in a crisis every day. I'm done. I can't deal with this. 

[00:10:24] Alletta: …slams the door. 

[00:10:26] Leslie: …slams the door. Okay. I didn't even have to ask you to do it—we naturally escalated. Did you notice? that 

[00:10:35] Alletta: That felt like I was in high school again. [Laughter] Didn't like that.

[00:10:40] Leslie: And I'm ready to scream. I contained myself a little bit, but I was going right into emotion mind. We both escalated. Neither one of us felt heard because we were fighting each other. 

[00:10:52] Alletta: Yep. And you dismissed everything I said as unimportant. 

[00:10:55] Leslie: Yeah. I mean I tried to validate that it was important, but I didn't care, bcause mine was important.

[00:11:00] Alletta: Because Cheryl is in a crisis every day.

[00:11:00] Leslie: Yes. Okay, we're going to do it again. And this time I'm going to do my DEAR MAN. Now, as we said, it is something I would write down ahead. Now I do have a few years, quite a number of years, under my belt, so I'm going to do it off the cuff. I do not have this written in front of me. I might even have to repeat it. So here we go. 

[00:11:21] Alletta: But we will have this example written up for you listeners to review on our show notes, if you do want to come back and revisit this. 

[00:11:29] Leslie: Perfect. Okay. “Alletta, can I have your attention for one minute?” 

[00:11:21] Alletta: “I'm in the middle of something right now, Mom.”

[00:11:37] Leslie: “Yes. I see that you are on your screen. I'm not asking you to get off it. I'm asking you to listen to me for one minute. Is that possible?” 

[00:11:46] Alletta: “Hold on, let me just tell Cheryl I'll be right back. Okay. I told Cheryl.” 

[00:11:51] Leslie: “Thank you. That was great. I'm going to try to do this fast. Alletta, I've noticed that you are on the screen a lot and it's really challenging to get you off the screen. I noticed that, when it's dinnertime, you stay on your screen, you're still on your phone. And we miss probably…four nights out of the seven nights, we do not have dinner together.” 

[00:12:22] Alletta: “I'm in the middle of something. I'm busy.” 

[00:12:25] Leslie: “Yes you are. It is really, really important to you to do what you're doing. I just want to express that dinner time is so important to me. Your brother, your dad, we're all in this. We would love to have dinner as a family. And I know that this is very important—I think we have a dialectic dilemma.”

“Can I ask you if you are willing to come to dinner, maybe four times a week rather than two times a week or three times a week? Can we up that a little bit, because I think in the long run it will mean a lot to you when you look back on your life and you actually did have these dinner times together.”

[00:13:07] Alletta: “How long do I have to be at dinner?” 

[00:13:09] Leslie: “That's a good question. If we get a half hour, that would be amazing if we could get a half hour. What do you think?” 

[00:13:18] Alletta: “I thought you were going to stay an hour. I'll do a half an hour. That’s fine.”

[00:13:20] Leslie: “Okay. I love it. If you can join us, I mean, if you are willing to be there four days a week, do you think I can ask for more?”

[00:13:29] Alletta: “Let's try four. Let's see how that goes.” 

[00:13:30] Leslie: “That's great. So we are going to go for four days a week. That sounds really great. I really appreciate you listening.”

[00:13:20] Alletta: “And if it doesn't work, we'll talk about it again.” 

[00:13:39] Leslie: “Absolutely. I'm very willing to come back to the table and see if it's working. Let's give it two weeks and see how it feels.” 

[00:13:49] Alletta: “Okay.” 

[00:13:50] Leslie: “Okay.” So, did that feel different? 

[00:13:54] Alletta: Yeah. I'm curious, because my initial reaction as teenage Alletta was to cross my arms and to fight you in the beginning. So I held my tongue because you had asked me to listen. But if you are dealing with a teenager, or a younger child who is not ready to sit and listen…Is there something you suggest to help facilitate that part of the conversation so it isn't immediately shut down? Because once we got through that and we were in the negotiation part, and you were talking about what you needed, I didn't care about what my future self would think about having family dinners; but I did care that it was only going to be a half an hour. 

[00:14:38] Leslie: So what we didn't talk about, and you are bringing up, is the timing of these conversations. Timing is an important factor. I probably would not have done what I did, which is to walk in and expect that you're going to listen to me while you're on your phone.

When I pick you up from school, when I'm taking you in the car somewhere, then I would say, “Hey, before you get out of the car, can I have a five-minute conversation with you?” 

[00:15:05] Alletta: And setting that time limit on how long the conversation is going to be, I find really helpful. Even in adulthood, like, “I just need 10 minutes of your time. Can we just sit and talk for 10 minutes, put our phones down, and pay attention to each other for just 5 to 10 minutes?” 

[00:15:21] Leslie: That's why most people don't want to get into conversation. They go on and on and on. So giving someone a time limit and picking a time that's going to work for both of you. In the episode, AJ actually said, “Yeah, we start asking our daughter all these questions. Which, when she comes home from school, she's done, she's spent.” 

[00:15:38] Alletta: Overstimulated. There's been such a busy day. It's often like when I would get home from work, when I was working in an office, right after work was the last time I wanted to talk. 

[00:15:47] Leslie: Right. So you think about the timing—that's going to help you introduce it.

There was one thing I had to do in the very beginning when you said, “Well, I'm texting with my friend,” or whatever you said. I knew, in that moment, I had to use one of my GIFT skills. “Yes, I know that is really important to you.” I threw that in immediately because I needed to keep you in the conversation.

And remember, the GIFT skills are for the relationship, so I want to let you know.

[00:16:14] Alletta: And that's why I said, “I'll tell Cheryl. I'll be right back.” 

[00:16:17] Leslie: Right. When I'm validating you, when I'm making you feel like you're being heard, you start to respect and collaborate with what I'm asking for. So it's very mutual. 

[00:16:30] Alletta: I love it. Do you have any last thoughts you want to share with our audience about DEAR MAN? It is a skill like any other that you need to practice. I'll share that from my own experience. I've been using DEAR MAN now for several years and writing it out is really helpful. And rehearsing it. If it's a big conversation you're nervous about, rehearsing it with a friend is really helpful. Do you have any other thoughts that you'd like to share? 

[00:16:52] Leslie: Yes. One of the thoughts I'd like to share is the idea that we don't need to use DEAR MAN all day long. It's not like that's the way we need to start talking.

We want to use DEAR MAN when we either predict a difficult conversation's going to be had, or when you're in the middle of a difficult conversation. You can take a time-out and you can sit down, to start to think about it. But a lot of times we have these difficult conversations over and over and over again. And they don't go anywhere and they just keep escalating. So when you have those difficult conversations, this is when you want to get out your DEAR MAN skill. 

[00:17:29] Alletta: One of the markers I use for how to decide if I'm going to use DEAR MAN is: if I feel like I'm going to be emotionally dysregulated in the conversation, or if the person I'm talking to might be emotionally dysregulated. If there is a conversation that is giving me a pit in my stomach, using DEAR MAN will really help me get through it. Even if it seems like something super simple, like your example in the beginning, trying to make a return at a store. If it is something that is stressful to you, planning it out is really helpful.

[00:17:58] Leslie: And it's amazing. I get my objective met when I return things and when I say things effectively. That's another thing I want to say is it makes you feel so much more competent and effective. I just made a mistake ordering one yoga block, not two, and it was a whole big thing. But I wrote to customer service and they said, yeah, we're happy to mail it to you. I had to pay for the second one, but…

[00:18:23] Alletta: You DEAR MAN’d them. 

[00:18:24] Leslie: I DEAR MAN’d them and it was so great. And it feels good because it's effective. You aren't always going to get what you want, so beware. 

[00:18:31] Alletta: Yeah, it's not a magic pill, it's not a magic spell. 

[00:18:33] Leslie: No. But you will walk away feeling much more effective, much more in your wise mind, and more competent. The last thing I want to say is that some people will say, “It sounds so prescriptive. It sounds so prescribed. I just don't like that.” Well, guess what? After doing it over and over and over again, it won't sound prescribed. And the amazing thing is that I have gone into difficult conversations with my piece of paper and I've said, this is a difficult conversation. So I actually thought about it ahead of time. What person's going to laugh at you with that? 

[00:19:11] Alletta: And also if you're giving a big presentation at work, you practice, you write it down ahead of time. And I think that we owe our interpersonal relationships the same level of respect that we give at work. We practice presentations for work, so why wouldn't you practice a difficult conversation? Why wouldn't you write it out ahead of time? I find it—for me at least, I'm neurodivergent—I find it really helpful. I've also used it at work in conversations with supervisors, in conversations with people I was supervising. It's really helpful and pretty much in every difficult conversation you could imagine. 

[00:19:47] Leslie: Yes. And you just go ahead. And writing it out is something that's going to actually make you feel better and help you learn it. And then you can either use your piece of paper or put it down and it's all in there.

Can I add one more thing? The steps that most people skip are the Describe and the Emotion. They're so important. Most people skip the D and the E, and they go right to: I need you to clean up. I need you to come to dinner. I need you to turn off your screen. Think about it. That's the step we start at.

And that's why it often doesn’t work because… 

[00:20:19] Alletta: …it puts people on the defensive. 

[00:20:21] Leslie: Exactly. And I bet you didn't know that you missed four out of seven dinners. [Laughter]

[00:20:27] Alletta: I wasn't paying attention. 

[00:20:29] Leslie: Of course not. So I gave you the information that you needed and that I'm basing it on. 

[Music: The Wilds Beyond by L-Ray Music]

All right, Alletta, that was really great. And as you said, we'll write up the example and also have the DEAR MAN steps written out for you in the show note links. 

[00:20:46] Alletta: If you are interested in learning more about DEAR MAN, GIVE, FAST, or other DBT skills visit ismychild a monster.com. or the links in the show notes. And please subscribe to, Is My Child A Monster? wherever you get your podcasts. And rate and review, share it with friends to help spread the word. 

[00:21:05] Leslie: And go home and try using the DEAR MAN and let me know how it works for you. I love hearing the stories when it works and when it doesn't work. Because when it doesn't work, we can tweak it. And Alletta, thank you so much for joining me today. I love these conversations because I like to take the time to break it down and make it useful for our listeners. 

[00:21:25] Alletta: Thank you, Leslie. I'm always happy to be here 

[00:21:28] Leslie: And listen in on Tuesday for my final session with Nicky and AJ, where we focus on communicating with their daughter Lily, especially around not cleaning up after herself and struggling to get up or to get in the shower.

The Is My Child,A Monster? team is Alletta Cooper, Camilla Salazar, and me. Special thanks to Eric Rubury. Our theme music is by L-Ray Music. I’m Leslie Cohen-Rubury. Thanks so much for joining me.

Transcribed by Eric Rubury