Pro Mindset® Podcast

The “Special” Leadership Formula with Luke Gromer

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In this episode of Pro Mindset® Podcast, host Craig Domann delves into the impactful world of youth sports with guest and founder of RYG Athletics, Luke Gromer. Discover how fun, proper coaching, and redefining success can transform young athletes' experiences. Luke shares his insights on creating positive environments and the importance of identity in sports and life.
💭"Success isn't about wins and losses; it's about whether your kid wants to play again next year."

Episode Takeaways:

💡 Fun—Essential in Youth Sports
💡 Coaching—Train for Impact
💡 Identity—Success Beyond Winning

Join us for an enlightening conversation on nurturing the next generation of athletes.

📲Connect with Luke:
🌐Website: https://rygathletics.com/ 
👋LinkedIn: @Luke Gromer
📸Instagram: @rygathletics
📱Facebook: @RYG Athletics

🚀 Ready to Build a Mindset That Powers You Through Anything?
If Luke’s insights on coaching and identity inspire you, the Pro Mindset® Coaching Program can help you align your potential with purpose and adaptability.

 👉 Learn more or apply at www.ProMindsetPodcast.com/coaching or reach out directly to Craig at Craig.ProMindset@gmail.com.

#ProMindset #Mindset #CraigDomann #ProMindsetPodcast #LukeGromer  #RYGAthletics #BetterCoachingPodcast #Coaching #YouthSports #Identity #Success #YoungAthletes #Athletes #Positivity #Nurturing #SelfTalk #InnerVoice

PRO MINDSET (00:

01.084) Hey, welcome everybody to Pro Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Craig Domann Today we have a young man, Luke Gromer. Luke is the founder and president of RYG Raise Your Game Athletics. He does a lot of Nike camps. He has a podcast. He's a TEDx talker. He's a father. He's a husband. Plays a lot of roles. Luke, welcome to our show today.

Luke Gromer (00:

24.654) Thanks for having me, Craig. It's good to be here.

PRO MINDSET (00:

27.056) Okay, Luke. Let's start with your TEDx talk. The Missing Ingredient in New Sports. What's that about?

Luke Gromer (00:

38.156) Yeah, I became really passionate about this topic about six, seven years ago when I started my teaching and coaching journey post college. You know, I'm really, I would say fortunate and unique in my sport experience. The worst thing that I can say about a coach that I had throughout my sport experience from the time I was, you know, six or seven years old through high school when I stopped competing was that my coaches, some of them might've been a great dude, but just not a very good coach. Like that's the worst I can say about the coaches I had, which I think is fairly unique. A lot of people who have participated in sport, had some really negative experiences with or at the hands of their coaches. And I just think it's a little bit crazy that to be certified to teach kids in our country, it costs me like four years and 80 grand to get a teaching degree. But to be licensed or certified to coach kids, it's like, I don't know, four hours and 40 bucks and maybe pass a background check and maybe you have a pulse and played. You know, it's just, there's not a lot of, yeah, requirement that we put on the individuals that have great influence over kids. And then as you dig into what's happening in youth sport, attrition rates are high, not enough kids are active and involved in sport, and we all know it. probably your listeners, I know me and I'm sure you as well, Craig, sport was a big thing that shaped my life for good. And all the research says that the benefits of children participating in sport are immense, right? They earn more as adults, they're more physically active, they have better mental health, right? They do better in school, they drop out, like you name it, kids being in sport is good for them is what the data says. But then it's like, so why do so many drop out? and why do so many quit? And the research says that the number one reason they quit is that it's not fun anymore. So what's the missing ingredient in youth sport? It's fun. And that was what the talk was about. And I think there's three things that youth sports organizations can do to put fun back in the game. Because I really do think that it has to happen at the organization level, the organizational level for there to really be meaningful change.

Luke Gromer (03:

02.184) beyond just one kid and one coach experience. That's important. Ultimately, the experience does come down to a coach leading the team or an individual. And if the organization doesn't set the standard and expectation, I just think there's a lot that gets missed there. So the three things that I talked about in the talk were first, you got to scale and segment sports better for our youth athletes. For example, in basketball, an eight year old. Typically a third grader ends up playing on a 10 foot hoop with a 28 five ball on a full size high school court. It's the same game as an 18 year old and their bodies are not ready for it. So it leads to lower levels of success, which leads to lower levels of enjoyment, which leads to more burnout and dropout for these kids. And so first is scale the sports. I'd also add in there, segment them before seventh and eighth grade should really be segmented by age, not grade, right? Because there's a... in a grade, a school grade, you might have 18 to 20 months of difference in age. You've got the really old kid in that grade and the really young kid in that grade. And so you think that this first grader is a super athlete, but the reality is he was just born really early and his parents held him back or whatever it might be. And then it just creates this disparity again, lower levels of enjoyment for those kids who might be right late bloomers or younger for that grade. So scale them, segment them. The second one is... Maybe the most important, what I talked about earlier is actually training coaches and holding them to high standards. An organization, yes, you should background check your coaches, et cetera. That's great. And you should train them. And I'm not just talking about the X's and O's techniques and tactics. Most coaches, that's not actually the area they need the most training in. They need to know how to create a positive climate or culture on their team. They need know how to connect with young athletes. They need know how to design and run a practice. that is both fun and helps athletes get better. Nothing makes my blood boil more than watching a youth sports practice where kids are standing in long lines, bored out of their minds, not doing anything that actually is helping them get better at the game that they love. So you got to train coaches, hold them to high standards, teach them to be good to and good for athletes, right? Good to in the way that they treat and lead, good for in the way that they actually help them grow at the game that they're there to get better at.

Luke Gromer (05:

21.506) And then the third thing that I talked about was just redefining success. Every stakeholder in the experience redefining success for the organization, it's just about like retention and not for financial incentives, but for love and joy of the sport is how many kids come back to play again the next year? Like if you want to look at successful youth sports organizations, that's what they're going be measuring is how many kids come back? Because if they love it, they're going to come back. If the parents love it, the parents see that we care, that we're invested in them, they're going to come back, et cetera. So looking more at retention than wins and losses, coaches, success being again, along those same lines, like don't be a kid's last coach and ensure that it's a fun and enjoyable experience. And then for parents too, reframing success and recognizing that success is especially at these young youth levels, like the winning and losing is not important here. What's important is that our children learn to compete, they learn. how to be coached, that they learn how to be great teammates, they learn how to give great effort, that they learn how to fail and keep going. I'll just share a quick 30 second story. My son is playing rec league baseball for the first time. He's seven. And in his last game, he hit a liner right back to the pitcher and the kid snagged it and caught it. A great catch by the kid. And my son goes back to dugout and head down. He's so disappointed and distraught. It's like, no, dude, that was a great hit. Like sometimes. The other team just makes a good play. But I'm so grateful that my son is in a spot where he's gonna learn that lesson. Like, hey, sometimes you do it right and the outcome just isn't what you hoped it would be. And the only thing you can do is move on. yeah, redefining success is what I think is the third key there. And like I said, I think it's essential that the organizations that are delivering these sport experiences are the ones that ensure those things happen, even when... It's inconvenient and potentially costs more money to segment them, to scale them, to train your coaches, to communicate with parents clearly. I think those are the keys that can actually move the needle in giving young people a better experience in sports.

PRO MINDSET (07:

38.429) Tell you, this is what I heard you say. There should be fairness in youth sports so that you don't have the older kid that's dominating and giving everybody the false sense of, you know, success that this guy's really good and he just happened to be maturing faster because he is a little bit older than everybody else. The second thing I heard you say is competency, you know. Coaches need to be competent, and they need to be competent in life, not just in sport. They need to be competent in building people up instead of tearing them down. And the third thing I heard was reframing. Everybody's got a different definition of success. Even parents that are married don't have the same definition of success. So it's very difficult for, let's say, basketball team with 10 players, for all of them to think success. It's the same thing. And so I think it's important for the coaches to define it, communicate it, let everybody know what success is. And having three kids that are now grown up, two played professional football.

PRO MINDSET (08:

54.732) know, reaction to failure and reaction to defeat is where parents and coaches and fans reveal who they are. And so like even with your son, it's effort over outcome. It's effort over results. I mean, if you had a line drive, man, you know, statistically, probably nine out of 10 times, that's a hit. And you get three out of 10, you go to the Hall of Fame in the major league. So that's, you know, keep doing it. Exactly whatever you did, whatever you saw, do it again. Because probably the next nine times he's not going to, the pitcher is not going to catch it.

Luke Gromer (09:

40.495) Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that you just said that resonates with me, I actually just wrote about this in my newsletter the other week. The title of the article was the biggest mistake coaches make with mistakes. And it is how we react to mistakes, and especially at the youth level. And again, I think most, I want to say this clearly, most youth coaches are doing the best they can with what they know. And it's on, I believe it's on those organizations to equip them, train them, and set an expectation. expectation and standard for them. It's like, man, if this seven year old misses a ground ball and we're drooping our head as the coach and frustrated at them, that's unhelpful. And that's more about you than it is about helping them grow. The attention should be on how do I help them grow from this, learn from this versus like you said, it reveals a lot more about us than it does about that athlete when we respond to mistakes or less than ideal outcomes in those sorts of ways.

PRO MINDSET (10:

40.349) I'm oversimplifying it, but I think there's only a 33 % chance that you're going to have a coach that is a good coach for your kids. And the reason why is because they either have never played, that's one third, they played and they had a good coach, which is the, that's the bonanza, or they played and they had bad coaches and they model whoever they had. And so if they had a series of bad coaches, they don't even realize they're bad coach. So you got a two thirds chance to not have a good coach coaching your kid.

Luke Gromer (11:

11.031) Yeah, anecdotally too, there's probably a lot of people that would agree with that. It is just kind of the reality of it, especially at those youth levels, it's kind of the luck of the draw. Like, who do you get placed with? And that's the thing that frustrates me for the sake of kids. And again, even that guy that played that had a bad coach, he's modeling what he saw. And a lot of them, they just don't know that there's another or a better way. It's like, okay, well, this organization running this league, you need to take an hour or two hours and actually require some things of these people. Like they'll do the training. I promise they'll do the training. Someone will do the training and show up to coach these teams because parents want their kids in sports so badly. Like even if you're a volunteer run organization. and it's in that space where you can set a standard and expectation for it. This is how we coach kids. This is what the research says is effective in leading people and coaching kids and responding to their mistakes and helping them overcome adversity. Yeah, I think that's so, so important.

PRO MINDSET (12:

20.169) Quick story, love football, but got my kids into soccer, my boys into soccer. And we were at a soccer practice and soccer practice is very organized. Every kid brings a ball, every kid ends up playing with a partner, then it's small sided ball, then it's like three V three, next thing you know, it's full field. And there's a very smart progression for soccer. And next to us on the field was a football coach that showed up. with like 19, 20 kids. And I was just like looking over there, like yearning to like, can't wait to, my boys are, you I wanted them to wait a little while to play football. had one football, one line, and he played quarterback. And he threw the ball the farthest he could and nobody caught a ball. And you had like the last 10 or 12 kids in the line picking grass, didn't even know they were at football practice. And the kids were learning nothing. And when I started coaching football, I bought enough balls so everybody had a ball or a partner in a ball. Everybody got to play quarterback for the first 10 minutes of practice because we played catch. Everybody got to play center. We worked on things like soccer kids do, soccer practice does, and we revolutionized how we did practice and everybody enjoyed it. And if you didn't play quarterback, you still went home and you got to touch the ball a lot. Where in most practices, unless you're the quarterback or the running back, you don't get to see the ball.

Luke Gromer (13:

54.305) Yep. I'm so passionate about better practices. Again, I'm as many as possible, as active as possible for as long as possible. It's how we run our Nike sports camps as well. I'm actually convinced that there's a lot of athletes that come to our camps and they get more reps in these four or five days than they did practicing their entire previous season, most likely. I've just seen enough practices know that the time on task in a lot of gyms is actually really low. Like how... What percentage of your practice does a kid actually making a meaningful decision or rep that is representative of what actually happens in your sport? I think for most practices, it's probably somewhere 20, 30, maybe 40%. But the question is, how do you get it to 70, 80, 90 %? That's when kids really start taking off when they're practicing the game as it's going to happen. There's representative learning design, the problems they're solving. the activities they're doing actually happen in the game? Like it's not standing in a line running a route with no defense there. Like that never happens in the game. Just put a defender there, right? Break them into groups of three and have a quarterback and a wide receiver and a defender. And all of a sudden, this is way more representative of the game, right? It's like, and to your point, it's like now we're gonna break them into smaller groups. It's so much more enjoyable because they show up to play, not to stand in lines, being bored, not doing anything meaningful with their time.

PRO MINDSET (15:

22.695) Yeah, it's a novel concept that you don't practice it, but you expect the kids to do it in the game. They just can't do it if they've never practiced it. They've got to get those reps. OK, Luke, what's your story in sports?

Luke Gromer (15:

40.653) Yeah, like I said, a multi-sport athlete through high school and my life was really shaped in two places, sports and camps. I'm 5'8", I'm not super fast and I'm not an incredible athlete. So I had to contribute with my mind as much as my body if I was going to contribute to my team. So I figured out how to lead with my voice, figured out how to be kind of that coach on the field kid that knew what was supposed to happen and where things were supposed to be and add value in that way. And so, yeah, I just fell in love with sport from a young age. I loved competing, loved playing, spent my evenings in my childhood out in the neighborhood playing football, basketball, baseball with my neighbors and friends. Like that was just what childhood was like. And then, yeah, through middle school, high school. playing multiple sports, went to a smaller private school too. So I could, I could do that easily. You know, not every kid now can do that as easily as I could, especially if they're at large public high schools. I recognize that it changes for lots of athletes. There does kind of become a point where many of them unfortunately have to choose like what sport am I going to commit to in high school? But I didn't. And I was really grateful for that. I just loved playing all of them. And then Yeah, went to college, studied education, thought in the back of my mind, I might want to coach. And as I'm doing my student teaching, my senior year of college started volunteering and coaching eighth grade basketball. got bit by the bug and fell in love with it. Started coaching, teaching after that, the high school, junior high level got plugged in, in the camp space. Yeah. Long story short, ended up starting some camps locally in Northwest Arkansas, where I'm located, guess, four summers ago. And really using an intentional model, a classroom and court model that I was inspired by with my time working with PGC basketball and at our camps to kind of use that same classroom court model that they use. we integrate a leadership and mindset curriculum into the experience just because I really believe that there's a lot more to performance than just what you can do with your body. And also hopefully what we...

Luke Gromer (18:

00.079) how we help these athletes grow will serve them beyond just the game that they're playing. And so yeah, started those camps a few years ago locally, those grew quite a bit and brought them under the Nike sports camp umbrella. Last summer we served like 420 kids across basketball and volleyball camps. And this summer will be somewhere between like 800 and a thousand kids between our basketball and volleyball camps, kind of spread across the country. So. Yeah, that's like a long story trying to condense, but the gist of it is my life was really shaped in sports and also at summer camps and now on a mission to do that for other young people.

PRO MINDSET (18:

41.737) speak to the parents out there that might have a son or daughter who doesn't like sports, but doesn't like anything, plays video games, spends their time on Instagram. What's the motive? How do you get kids like that off the couch?

Luke Gromer (19:

02.733) I'm not an expert. I'll share my thoughts though. There's some really good research. Jonathan Haidt wrote a book called The Anxious Generation that's worth a read, I think for any parent looking at Gen Z and why they're so anxious and the connections to screen time, social media use, et cetera. I'll say this first. I don't think your kid has to play sports. I think your kid does need to find something that they love, some place that they can put energy and effort into and get invested in the process of improving. Maybe it's music, maybe it's dance, maybe it's starting a small business. I don't know what it is. Growing, building something, their own skills, lawn mowing business. I don't know what it is. But I think young people... Young people thrive when they're given meaningful responsibilities and they feel and see themselves growing in some way.

Luke Gromer (20:

10.297) To your question, like what do you do with a child who is locked into social media and video games? How do you get him off the couch? Parents probably wouldn't like hearing this answer. it's gonna be very hard if you have not been intentional prior to that moment where they are now hooked on those things. And I say that, just say that, for example, with my seven, four and two year old at our home, like we have pretty strict limits on screen time, like very strict limits on screen time. They might watch a 20 minute show once a day and once a week, we might have a family movie night or maybe we don't. Like it's very strict. And so if you have, and I've coached a lot of these kids at the junior high, high school level, if you have a 12, 14, 16 year old who's addicted to video games or social media or just glued to their phone, it's going to be hard to undo some of what's been done throughout their childhood. So I would say the first thing is being intentional on the front end is what I think will produce the best result when they hit those adolescent years adulthood. But let's say that you didn't and that's okay and you are where you are. So let's do what you can with what you have. And you've noticed this in your child and you want to do something different. First is that as the parent and leader of your home and family, you've got to be able to put up and enforce some boundaries, even if that means you're not popular in your home for a little while. If your child has a cell phone, I'm guessing that they don't pay for it. you don't have to pay for it. this might sound, parents might say, this is crazy. I mean, it's not. You can get them a phone that doesn't have internet or social media on it. Get them a dumb phone where they can call and text you.

Luke Gromer (22:

10.541) I like video games, like it's a choice to let that in your home. What I do recognize though, is that there's extreme societal pressure and it's super hard when your child's peers are all doing these things. All my child's friends are on social media. All my child's friends are on video games and that child wants to be as well. One of the things that Jonathan Haidt says in his book, The Anchor's Generation is one of the most essential things. to do if you want to take control of screen time in your home, help your children be set up for better success, is to find a community of like-minded people to raise your children with that also share these values and beliefs. It's like my wife and I, we're very intentional with the friends that we have. They're also weird with technology. And we're just going to raise our kids around people that are quote unquote weird with technology. Because I care more about who they are at 20 than I do about them being happy quote unquote at 10 years old. because they have a screen or access to it or video games, et cetera. So that's kind of a tangent there. But again, back to that kid who's kind of already hooked in that screen space, I think try to have some honest conversations with them about, how do think this is affecting you? One of the things I also, I do in coaching and some in parenting too is what can be called social contract parenting. Like flip it on its script and ask the child, hey, what do you think is a reasonable amount of time? for you to spend playing video games this week. Let's say they say five hours. Okay, great. What do you think is a fair consequence if you exceed that limit? Let them set it. And then if they exceed it, well then enforce the consequence that they already agreed to. Like this is being proactive. It's the same thing I would do with teams that I'm coaching. Okay, what's a fair consequence for not showing up to practice with your practice jersey? You don't get to practice. And if you don't get to practice, What does that mean for the game? You don't get to play or you miss a It's just talking about these things on the front end. And then it's like, we agreed to this. I'm enforcing the consequence that has already been agreed to. I think can be a powerful way to approach, especially those teenagers, adolescents, where it's like, no, you're going to help me set this social contract that we have. And I'm just going to enforce what we agreed to.

Luke Gromer (24:

32.139) as opposed to I'm just gonna come in with the iron fist and strip all these things away from you. It's actually getting some input from them on what they think is reasonable and you may have to coach them there some, it's really hard. Social media, video game screens is really hard and it's not gonna become any easier for parents in the next, you know, ever, I don't think.

PRO MINDSET (24:

56.553) I was thinking through what I would say if I was asked that question. I love your perspective on investment and improvement, investment and growth. I think that's something we all need to do. But I think one of the things we're missing is that sports gives you a dopamine hit. It gives you gratification. It gives you like you feel accomplished. You feel successful when you make that free throw or that shot or make that tackle or whatever sport it might be. And so for parents, I think they have three options and there's probably 10, but three to simplify it. One is a social contract, as you suggested. Another one is just be like, do a 180 and be the most unpopular guy in the house for however long it takes. Both of those have merit. Both of those have consequences. I think the third one is finding out what your kid likes, what their talent is, what's God's gifting. If they didn't have a phone, what would they be doing? If they couldn't stay inside, what would they be doing outside? And finding something that's almost like a dopamine replacement for the phone and the video games, screen time and video games, because they lose themselves in whatever that activity is because it's something they enjoy. And so I really think as a parent, one of our biggest responsibilities is not getting our kids in sports, not getting our kids in band or any particular activities, is experimenting and letting the kids show you what they're good at, what they like, and what they want to invest in their improvement. They're willing to pay the price that it takes to get better because they like it. And then I think the... screen time goes down and the video time goes down because they don't have time. Everybody's got the same amount of time. So those just, know, from my perspective, having 20 something year olds, it's the art of finding what they love that might be different than what you thought it was or different than what you loved.

Luke Gromer (27:

18.445) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, parents have to be secure in and of themselves to be able to, yeah, be okay with that. Let your kid take their own path and their own journey. It's theirs, not yours.

PRO MINDSET (27:

31.305) Okay, what is the, I see here that you've got your, in these camps you focus on mental growth, leadership, things like that. What are your fundamental leadership principles that you teach in your camps that you think translate from a sport to real world?

Luke Gromer (27:

52.791) Yeah. Yeah. We teach a leadership acronym. It's the word special. The S stands for selfless. The P stands for persistent. The E stands for an energy giver. The C stands for a communicator. The I stands for identity. The A stands for attention to detail. And the L stands for being a learner. We could go into all of those, if you'd like those seven qualities we think create a person. And this is how we frame all of it. A person and a leader. who earns trust. We preface all of that leadership discussion and learning with the truth about relationships is they're built on trust. It is this hidden currency that runs the world. And these behaviors, those seven leadership behaviors, qualities, earn trust with coaches and teammates. And someday with your boss, your employees, your wife, your children. your friends, your neighbors. If we can show up with those qualities, it's going to set us up for success. in sport and outside of sport.

PRO MINDSET (29:

02.953) pick one of those letters in special that you feel like is gotta have. Maybe all of them are important, but pick the one.

Luke Gromer (29:

21.315) You know, I think I'm actually going to talk about identity for a second at the camps. We talk about this with our athletes in a few different ways. We talk about first an off court and an on court identity, an on court or an on field identity to be successful in a sport or a field life. You need to be known for something. We talk about get become great at what you're good at. For example, in basketball, if you're a good shooter, become a great shooter. actually maybe don't spend all your time becoming good at everything, become great at one thing. Because the higher you go, the more coaches are looking for specialists, not necessarily a generalist. For example, in the NBA, a guy like Draymond Green, he's only good at a few things, but man, he's made a lot of money. Or a guy like Klay Thompson, he was just really good at one thing, catch and shoot threes, and he was a good defender. So get great at what you're good at. That's on court identity. But then we actually spend more time talking about off-court identity. Hey, who are you away from this sport? What's your life about? What matters to you? We actually challenge the athletes at our camp to take a few minutes to consider what they want people to say about them at their funeral and to start to live with the end in mind. So we give them two exercises. One is, hey, it's the end of your life. And what do you want a friend or family member to stand up and say about you at your funeral? And they take some time to write some of that information down and then we share it. And then we also give them an encore activity. say, hey, it's the end of your playing career, last game that you're ever gonna play. Your coach or a teammate stands up to talk about you. What do you want them to say about you as a teammate? And we just give them some space to think about that, to write things down and to share it. Because what I believe is that our actions flow from our identities and our beliefs. And so when these young athletes say that at their funeral, they want people to talk about what a great friend they were or how unselfish they were. The challenge we give them is, okay, well then be that today. If you want somebody to say that about you at the end of your life, you have to be that today. And that's hard, right? That sounds easier said than done.

Luke Gromer (31:

49.697) Yeah, we really believe that a strong sense of identity, both on the court and off the court, is essential to growing as a person and a player.

PRO MINDSET (32:

00.551) I would double down on that and poker, would go all in on that. And I would say that you can't achieve or accomplish or perform outside or higher than your identity. And that you put every athlete, I don't care if you're in the NBA or major league baseball, you put the ceiling on your own production and performance. consistent with and in alignment with your identity. So unless you rewrite your story and rewrite your identity, you're going to keep showing up the same way. And for younger kids, a little bit different because they don't know who they are yet. So they're experimenting. They may go to school and in one week, they go to school five days and they got five different identities, especially middle school and high school. But as an adult, We attract who we are. And so one of the things that I would add to your exercise is something along the lines of, and this is on the court, what do you say to yourself when you let the ball go when you're shooting a shot? What's your voice saying? I got it. Money? In your face? Some smack talk? Or is it like, I hope it goes in? What are my teammates going to think when I miss it? Maybe I shouldn't shoot anymore. wonder if coach is going to pull me. Because if it doesn't go in, this is all happening in a nanosecond. Ball just left your fingers and you're already doubting it's going to go in and wondering what the coach is going to do. And maybe you're not going to get to play the rest of the half. If you can't rewrite the story you tell yourself, I'm here to say I don't really care what anybody else thinks because you're talking to yourself all the time. And sometimes people from the stands on the bench can yell at you. You don't even hear it. But what's in your mind, and you and you, you can hear it every time. Thoughts on that?

Luke Gromer (34:

04.973) Yeah, absolutely. We spend a lot of time talking about negative thought loops, how to get out of those, what to do with them. We talk about, yeah, that self-talk. What do you do with emotion in performance? How do you tame that? How do you control that? How do you direct your attention to what is important, which is hard. It's hard for anybody, right? I think this morning I'm sitting at coffee with someone and someone made a comment that kind of struck a chord with me and I've been thinking about it all day, right? And then you put that, you know, to a 12, 13, 14, 16 year old and their teammate says one thing, their coach says one thing and it's in their head, right? And to your point too, how are they talking to themselves? Are they doing it in a way that's helpful or unhelpful? Is it focused on what they can control or is it focused on, you know, fear or anxiety? Is it what if, right? So much of fear in life and in sport comes down to those questions. Oh, what if I miss? What if I, right? and even trying to help athletes reframe, like, instead of what if blank, like, what if we put something positive in that blank? What if I make it here? Right? What if I have a great game? Right? Just helping them understand and think differently about their performance is so, so, so powerful because it impacts it. It impacts it so much.

PRO MINDSET (35:

21.513) All right, Luke, your chance to be vulnerable. What was that coffee comment that you've been thinking about all day and what are you thinking about what you're thinking about that comment?

Luke Gromer (35:

31.207) Yeah, was, was, it was, somebody else was talking about another guy that he had had a conversation with that was a difficult guy to have a conversation with. And because of how I approached the conversation and one of my close friends was at the table and he kind of, looked at me and kind of gave me a look like this as if to say, like, that's, that's you sometimes. And it is a friend that I have given permission to speak. tough feedback into my life. So I'm grateful for it. But it was one of those, it wasn't even a comment, right? It was just a look about a comment, but I knew what it saying. And going away from there, just thinking through, okay, that kind of hurt. And there's probably some truth in it. And where do I need to tell myself? How can I show up differently even in just conversations with people? How can I become more curious and less judgmental or less... Yeah, know it all or approach it in a way that turns people off. And so, yeah, it was one of those moments like, this kind of sucks. There's probably a hint of truth in it here in jest, but there's always sometimes a hint of truth and, and some jokes. And so, yeah, that's, I'm handling a lot better right now than I would have three or four years ago, right? It probably would have really messed me up. Now I'm able to kind of take a step back and say, okay, I can take this for what it is and use it to help me grow and. live more in alignment with my values and who I want to become.

PRO MINDSET (37:

01.511) Okay, so that was all from a look. Okay, so what are the chances, maybe it's not high, but what are the chances he wasn't thinking what you were thinking he was thinking?

Luke Gromer (37:

04.568) Yeah. 13.071) There's a chance, low chance. Low chance. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PRO MINDSET (37:

15.345) Low chance. Okay, so now let's take this to sports. How often do athletes look at a coach or see mom or dad in the stands and get the look?

Luke Gromer (37:

27.135) so much? Yeah, absolutely.

PRO MINDSET (37:

28.765) And then they automatically go down this rabbit hole of, I don't think I'm trying hard. They don't think I'm this. I don't think this. And is it ever a positive? It's mostly negative. I mean, there's probably, I mean, the dad may be thinking about, you know, some business call he needs to make when he gets, you know, the game's over. He's not even thinking about the game. He's not even thinking what the kids thinking he's thinking. You know, and the coach is stressed out because he's trying to get everybody equal playing time. And he's realizing he's got a sub and

Luke Gromer (37:

35.983) Totally. Yeah. Yeah. 51.405) Yeah, absolutely.

PRO MINDSET (37:

58.279) you know, some kid looks over and it's like, I'm in trouble. No, you're not. It's not about you. So I guess my point is the look sometimes is what it is. But other times it might not be what you think it is. So no judgment. you know, my experience in doing this and in sports and coaching is that, you know,

Luke Gromer (38:

09.753) Totally. 13.581) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's a good reminder. Yeah, no, it's real.

PRO MINDSET (38:

27.037) follow-up text to your buddy like hey what were you thinking hey you looked at me where damn what were you thinking let him go ahead and tell you what he thought and if it's exactly what you thought great and if it's not you know

Luke Gromer (38:

30.305) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah.

PRO MINDSET (38:

43.601) It is what it is too. Okay. Let's go back to coaches and let a lot of people coach, especially with their kids of the age that they're competing. And the mom or dad wants to be involved, sometimes doesn't want to be the head coach, but wants to support the head coach by being an assistant. And which leads to sometimes issues with their own kid.

Luke Gromer (38:

45.369) Yeah.

PRO MINDSET (39:

12.615) Because parent coaches have a tendency to coach their own kids harder. So how do you coach parents who are coaches to be more fair and positive to their own kids, their players?

Luke Gromer (39:

30.807) Yep. Two simple strategies here that I would offer. The first one I think is from Gordon McClellan. He's out of the UK, does some awesome work with parents in sports. He calls it the two hat rule. I have conversations with my oldest who I've coached in sport. And I say, Hey, when we get to practice, my coach hat is on. You call me coach just like all the other kids. And when practice is over, I'm putting the dad hat back on. You call me dad, practice is done. There's a clear delineation and separation here when I am coach and when I am dad. When I'm coach, I'm going to do my best to treat you just like all the other kids. And I need you to treat me just like you would any coach. And then when it's over, the game is over, the practice is over, the dad had us back on, and that's our relationship. And nothing that happened on that sport field is going to come into this. That can be hard at times. So that's what would be the first thing. The second thing is if you have a second coach there, have them coach your kid. Just say to them, for example, one of the coaching jobs I had, I was an assistant, we're coaching ninth grade boys, and the head coach, his son was on the team that year. And we had a conversation where I just said, hey, I know it might be hard for you to coach your son this year at times. Just give me a look and I'll go give him the feedback that he needs to hear. Right. So that you don't have to. So we just had that conversation. And throughout that season when his son needed some coaching and feedback, often I would go give it just so he didn't have to. Cause like you said, it's very easy as the parent coach to be harder on your own children than you are on the other children, because there is that preexisting relationship there. But I think if you can communicate that to them, Hey, I'm going to wear two different hats here. It's even helpful for you as the coach to remember, okay, this isn't parent time right now, this is coach time, and I need to approach my child in the same way that I'm approaching these other kids that I'm coaching.

PRO MINDSET (41:

41.051) Okay, had way more experience than than I would, than people probably would ever guess, but I was coaching dad and I was agent and dad. And so I would literally have conversations with my sons when they were playing college football and one played in the NFL. It would be like, I'm dad. I call them out and say, I'm dad. That's the first thing I would say. Or, Hey, I'm agent or I'm coach. And I set the tone for. the relationship we were going to have in that conversation. And then sometimes in the conversation, if I had just one thing to say as an agent, then I would say, I'm putting my dad hat back on. How's it going? And so I think it's very important to be very explicit about who you are in that moment. And then I think the second thing is not coaching your own kid. When you're the coach works short term. I think it has negative consequences long term. And the reason why is because if you can't speak honestly to your own son or daughter, it's going to show up in other places too, because you're going to figure out that, it's just easier to have mom talk to him, know, grandma talk to him, or big brother talk to him. And so then you basically are shrinking your role as a dad when you do that. And then the last thought I have is that When you're coaching your own son and let's say there's you know 15 other baseball players that show up You don't know what they had for breakfast You don't know that they had a candy bar on the way to the practice You don't know that they're more excited about a sleepover that night than they actually are going to practice That mom and dad actually had to bribe them to come to practice But if it's your kid, you know all that stuff And if you can't leave the baggage, so to speak, at the door, and you bring all that into practice, it clouds your judgment. And then you hold your kid to an unrealistic standard because you know that he really didn't want to be there. So you're like, I got to, got to, you know, show him. No. If you're going to be a coach for parent, you've got to leave all the stuff that's happened before practice.

PRO MINDSET (44:

07.579) out of practice. And then the things that you know that are going to happen after practice that you think your kid may be distracted about, you actually got to leave it out of practice. Because otherwise you're being harsher on your own son or daughter than you are on everybody else's kid.

Luke Gromer (44:

23.437) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree there. And I think what I... My point with the having your assistant coach your kid, especially I think that's really powerful in moments where you are not regulated yourself as a coach. It's like when you know that you're not in a good emotional state, that's a great time to have an assistant go give the feedback to your kid so that you don't blow up on your kid at practice, et cetera. But to your point too, if you don't coach them at all, there's gonna be other issues there in your relationship.

PRO MINDSET (44:

53.447) No, I've blown up a couple times. One that I can think of for each son. I'm not proud. And I did not regulate my emotions. Didn't have the awareness that I have today. If I could do it all over again, I'd handle it totally different. But back then, I only knew what I knew. So it's like, I give grace to parents that do lose their cool. Because it is hard. Because you know what your kid can do.

Luke Gromer (45:

19.181) It is hard, yeah.

PRO MINDSET (45:

23.059) and they're not doing it, it's frustrating. Right? So, let's go back to joy. Man, you know, even weekend golfers can't enjoy golf. Even people that play pickleball, even adults, they can't have fun unless they win. So how do you unlearn the programming that you've had your whole life?

Luke Gromer (45:

25.784) It is.

PRO MINDSET (45:

51.293) That it's only a good experience if you win.

Luke Gromer (45:

55.504) Two things, one, I think you have to know your own story. If that's really how you show up, there's a reason for it. You probably need to do a little bit of introspective inner work. Maybe chart your life history in sport, competing, et cetera. If you're like, why is it that you show up like this? That you can't enjoy playing unless you win? There's probably something in your childhood and past that sets you up to, or that... caused you to become like that. And the second thing is it's one of the mindsets that we try to communicate and teach the athletes that are camp. This is another thing I got from PGC basketball. So I'll give credit there. NATO, N-A-T-O, not attached to outcome. We often perform our best when we are not attached to the outcome. Back to the same, you know, the story with my son hitting that line drive that gets caught. Can you... Can you detach from the outcome? And can you stay focused on, I'm making good decisions and I'm doing my best. And the outcome is gonna be very random when I play this sport. I play 5 a.m. basketball twice a week still. And some mornings I shoot the lights out, that ball goes in, it's like I'm on the beach throwing it in the ocean. And some mornings it's like I couldn't I couldn't hit the ocean standing on the beach, you know? And I really try hard to be the same Luke on both mornings. Now you feel a little different when it goes in for sure. But I have to remind myself like I am here because I love to play. I'm here because I care about exercising my body, staying in good physical health for my wife and kids. Whether or not the ball goes in the hoop, that's not going to ruin my morning. I'm here because I love this. I'm here to compete, to play, and I'm just not going to be attached. to the outcome of this game or this point, this match, et cetera. When you get to that point, now you actually get to compete, bring your best. I'm just gonna do my best and detach from this outcome. And I'm gonna be able to stay present, regulate my emotions better than if I'm just so attached to this outcome of this game or this moment.

PRO MINDSET (48:

17.929) I love that. I coach people on creating a performance bubble that they step into, that they're detached from outcomes and noise and everything and lots of different things. They've got their confidence, a belief inside, what the coach is saying, said to them, the girl got in a fight with her girlfriend, whatever the case is, none of that stuff gets to come in. But I think where people struggle, athletes struggle, is they can be... emotionally regulated and they take the shot that they've practiced all week, all year, all life and they don't make it in their wide open. It's how they respond to what their expectation was to the result of that play. So think about how many times it doesn't matter if you bounce it off the backboard and you were trying to shoot a flush shot. If the first shot goes in, a lot of times the second shot goes in. If the first shot doesn't, the second one doesn't. There's very few shooters like Steph Curry that can isolate every shot as an individual event. That's what they talk about in golf, but basketball players have a hard time doing that. In golf, you've got so much more time between your shots where you can really sometimes detach from where you're at and what happened. Could have hit it in the fairway, hit a water sprinkler head, and next thing you know, you're behind a tree. No fault of yours. Where in basketball, I mean, you go from missing the shot to all of a sudden you're hustling back on defense. And then you find yourself open again, and now you got negative self-talk, and you don't have any mojo going. And it's like the basket just got smaller. That's on that.

Luke Gromer (50:

10.272) We share an acronym with the athletes at our camp. The acronym is WIN, W-I-N, what's important now? It's all about that. What is important in this moment? Where can I put my attention right now? I just missed a good shot. The next important thing for me to do is to get back on defense. I just shanked it off the tee box. What's important now? Well, it's just that I have a good second shot and set myself up for a chance to save par. Like whatever it is in your sport, we know, I think one of the important things though, is that we take the time to consider those questions before we find ourselves in that moment. think one of the most powerful things an athlete or a coach can do is to say, just to list out, hey, here are the things that often dysregulate me in competition. The ref makes a bad call. A player has bad body language. A parent's yelling at their kids from the stand. You name it, right? We mess up our baseline out of bounds. Whatever these things are, they typically piss you off as a coach or do it for yourself as a player. I turn the ball over, et cetera. Write that in the left column and on the right column, write what's important now at the top and just jot down one thing that you'll do in that moment when that happens. Okay, I missed the shot. What's important now? Okay, the ref made a bad call. What's important now? And just jot down what it actually is. Well, the ref made a bad call. I'm going to get with my teammates and we're going to talk about what defense we're in or what set we're about to run. And that's all around mental performances. Can I regulate my emotion? We've talked about that. And can I regulate my attention? And that's what we're talking about here. Can we put our attention on what's going to help us do the best thing for ourselves and our team in those moments that are hard?

PRO MINDSET (51:

57.257) That's awesome. Luke, looking at the time, where can people that want to have you speak, they want to send their kid to one of your camps, those types of things, where can people find you?

Luke Gromer (52:

12.152) Yeah, this has been great. I'm grateful for your time, and your insightful questions. Two places. If you're a coach or a leader of a sport organization, etc., if you're interested in working on coaching, training the coaches in your organization, speaking with your coaches, you can go to bettercoachinghub.com. You can see the weekly newsletter that we published there as well as links to the 135 podcast episodes we've shared with coaches, experts, researchers from across sports. And then if you're a parent or maybe you're a coach who wants to work camp or direct a camp in the future, or you're parent that wants to send a kid to one of our Nike sports camps, you can go to RygAthletics.com. And on that website, you'll see all the different camps that we offer in the various states and locations where we're operating. You'll get the camp info, you'll hit register, and then you'll go to the Nike Sports Camp page and have a chance to sign your kid up for one of our camps. So those are the two places if you're a coach, bettercoachinghub.com. If you're a parent or a coach interested in working or directing camps, rygathletics.com.

PRO MINDSET (53:

25.897) Thank you so much for being a guest today on Pro Mindset. And I want to challenge all the listeners that if you have a kid that can go to one of Luke's camps, it'd be a great idea because we need more camps that focus on the mental aspects of the game, not just the physical skills. And you've got a great head on your shoulders. You've got a great perspective. And I appreciate you.

Luke Gromer (53:

53.444) Yeah, thank you. So grateful you had me on.

PRO MINDSET (53:

55.805) Thank you.