Episode 07 - Audiobook BTS

Yoube Version, if you'd like to watch some gameplay and see our wolf avatars reacting and such:

https://youtu.be/L3s7uJ8n_QA

Welcome to Jabber Pack! The podcast of 2 lovers discussing a wide variety of things. 

Howl is everyone doing? 

In a previous episode, we talked about a recent audiobook that we helped produce. Today, we decided to talk a little bit about the random way we got involved in that and what it’s like to produce an audiobook! We’ve learned so much along the way and we hope you enjoy hearing about the journey.

If you are interested in stepping into the world of narration, we go through some of the pitfalls we learned the hard way, so you don’t have to!

Here are links to the 2 audiobooks we talked about today!

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Conspiracy-Within-Audiobook/B0GS72WLWS

https://www.audible.com/pd/Baby-Its-Cod-Outside-Audiobook/B0GDJ6WKGJ

If you want help support our podcast, you can do so here and we’ll give you a howl in the next episode!

https://steamcommunity.com/linkfilter/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.buzzsprout.com%2F2169632%2Fsupport

Thank you for checking this out! We hope to see you bark again soon! 

Our site: https://jabberpack.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

How is everybody doing, and welcome to Jabber Pack. I am Alex. And I am Roe. And today we're talking about the interesting process of how book narration has entered my life. In a previous episode, I had mentioned that I'm narrating books now, and one was uh recently released called The Conspiracy Within, which will play a big part in this. We'll get to that. Um And it's just bizarre, because if you asked me a year ago, hey, you know, do you see yourself narrating books? I would say that's a very random question, but it's something I'd always considered, uh, but definitely didn't see how I would actually turn that into something I do on a regular basis. Um so I don't know if you want to talk about the bizarre personal connection that sort of shoehorned us into audiobook narration.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Well, shoehorned you mostly.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yeah, you help a lot. You're like the primary editor, so.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

I'm just the assistants.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Don't discount yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Eh, I'll do what I want. But anyway, no that so it Okay, it is yeah, I mean I know it's early, but hey. So how it all got started was technically my uncle um released a book called The Conspiracy Within. And I had read it when it was just released. Um I think it was ch it had just been released on Kindle and they just got hard copies in stores. And so freshly released book. I saw my family post about it on Facebook, and I thought, you know, it sounds good, I'm gonna give it a read. So I read through it. Really good book. If you're into sci-fi, definitely really worth a read. Um, or listen to if you don't care to read.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

But I started talking to my aunt, one who's married to the author, and we we just started a conversation about how the book was gonna progress, apparently. And there will down the road be a sequel to the book. And she had mentioned about wanting to find somebody to narrate it, to be able to put it on Audible. And I had just in passing mentioned that, oh yeah, my um Alex wanted to get into narrating, and that's something that he's always wanted to do. And she said, Well, how about you have him send me send us an audition and we'll see if we like it. So we did, and they there was no hesitation on their part. Within a day, uh, a contract was sent for the book. So it kind of like all just happened to be like just the right timing for everything. You you look frightening. Or frightened, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

It's okay. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

But yeah, the uh the process was shockingly quick from um even knowing this could have been a possibility to actually having a contract to narrate the book, I feel like it was about a week.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

It wasn't it was like three days. Okay, so um I I I mentioned it to them and that and told you about it, and within a day you had um an audition done and sent to them, and I think it was one or two days after because it was the same day that they listened to it, they wanted to give you a contract. It just took them a day to write the contract.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

So I think it was a total of three, maybe four days from the time it was mentioned till you got the contract to sign.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah, uh either way, it was um a blink and you miss it moment in life where if even if you had asked me a week before, hey, what do you think you're gonna be doing next week? I wouldn't have thought, oh yeah, I'm gonna be uh narrating an audiobook. Um but there it was. Uh Lickity Quick. So, um, and I believe this is the first book from I mean, obviously it's the first book in this sci-fi series. I don't know if it's a series, duality, trilogy, whatever it's gonna be, it's up to Sean.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

You know so far we're gonna call it a series. I don't think he I don't think he's quite sure how many books might come from it, but at least two.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

At least a duology.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

But I do know it's the first book for the publisher.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Well, it's the first book that Sean has written, and it is the first book from Phillips and Done Publishing.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Because it is their flagship book.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Hooray. So uh n it's it's not only a new process for me, uh, learning how to blob this stuff out and put it into the digital world, it was very much a new process for them. And uh bearing in mind that everybody involved has other jobs. So it's uh um it's been interesting to figure this all out. Because uh apparently, you know, publishing distribution stuff is uh a headache in itself, so you know they are dealing with all the physical mediums, and you know, uh we ended up figuring out a lot more of the uh audio side of it just because it comes with its own uh set of headaches. So for those who aren't familiar, um obviously I think it's safe to say the main place most people listen to audiobooks is audible. I'm aware there are other platforms like Amazon. Uh Amazon is Audible.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Well, they've got Apple Books, there's Google Books, there's there's Yeah. A number of different ways to listen to audiobooks out there.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Yeah, but for most people when they when you say, Oh, I'm gonna listen to an audiobook nowadays at least, you think of Audible. And so that's indeed who uh we're working with. And it's it's one of the reasons why it confused me at first, because I thought, like, how on earth do you get involved with that? Amazon's this behemoth of a company, or Behemoth, or however um British people say it, they say it weird. I say that. We're the ones who ruin it.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

It's behemoth. We who who cares? I mean, no offense, but who cares how other people say it? We don't say it that way.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

It's English. It's American English. We we do whatever we want.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Um we make it up as we go.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

I wish I was Canadian, though. Anyway, um Let's not get political. But um, so how it actually works for anybody who is either A, curious, or B, looking to do it themselves, there is um a subsidiary of Amazon, one of their trillions of subsidiaries, called ACX. I don't remember what it stands for. It's like audio something exchange. I know that should make it ACE, but X is cooler for marketing purposes, so there it is.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Audio content exchange or some shit.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Uh maybe.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Sorry, some stuff.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Go, go, gadget, Google. Um, how it basically works is if you're an independent narrator or a producer, as they call them on there, you can set up a profile and make some samples of your voice reading various things. It's uh highly recommended that you use uh open source books. Open source is the wrong term. I always forget the open source is a coding term for something that anybody can public domain? Thank you, public domain.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

And for the record, uh ACX stands for Audiobook Creation Exchange.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Ah, well, there you go. Uh so you create a profile on there. Um, you can put some samples of yourself reading things, and then there's basically a place where there's just open auditions. So you go and read the the informate whatever information the author has, and then they'll have an audition script for you to read. And just like any casting call, you go put your audition on there. And then based on that, and maybe based on your previous work or whatever, however they make the decision, um they'll uh accept or reject your uh audition. More often than not, if you're new, it's probably gonna be reject, especially if it's um per finished hour. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Because see, there's two kinds of I feel technically there's three kinds of different pay rates for narrators on ACX. There's a per finished hour contract, royalty share contract, and a royalty share plus. Per finished hour, as implies, it is a set rate per hour finished of the book. So it could take a book that might take you, might might take the narrator and editors three days to finish, you're only gonna get paid for however long that finished product is.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Which, let's be honest, more often than not, people who are doing per finished hour projects or who are listing per finished hour projects are more looking for voice actors than storytellers.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

The royalty share rate are those who seem to be looking for more for actual storytellers and also are those who are I would say a lot newer to the whole ACX dynamic.

unknown 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I mean, that's not necessarily true, but I feel there are newer authors, newer up-and-coming authors, um, those who don't have as big of followings will often do royalty shares, which is a great way to, especially if you're a new narrator, to kind of get your foot in the door in the industry. Yeah. Because the more of those you can complete, it does get you a very passive income, but also gets your name out there a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

And then the royalty share plus is basically a combination of the two. Um, you get royalty shares for that book, and not as much as just a royalty share one, but you also get a set up front rate for the book. So you'll get some money right up front, and then a passive amount during the duration of your royalty share. But again, they more seem to look for um actual voice actors than storytellers, but a lot of people also don't post for royalty share plus.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Yeah, it's it's it's a lesser known thing. Uh, and and I do feel that per finished hour and the royalty share plus, they use it to try to attract more auditions uh and uh so either it's they want to get the project off the ground quickly, or they just they they want more experienced people. Um whereas uh you know, standard royalty share, which is the vast majority of what you'll see on ACX is royalty share. Um which just gives you a certain percentage of sales after Amazon's cuts and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Um which again, not a bad way to do it, especially for newer authors and newer narrators.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Yeah, and the more you get, the the better you are, because I think it's what seven years?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah. For a royalty share, it lasts um you narrator uh has a contract basically to receive shape royalty shares for that book for a total of seven years after the book is published on Audible.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Yeah. So not a bad uh not a bad way to get a passive uh little bit of income going, the more of those you get uh under your belt. Um but because it's more passive, um uh from the author standpoint, or the rights holder, as they say, um, on ACX, because they they they're not gonna guarantee the person you talk to and communicate with is the actual author. It could just be whoever holds the rights to the project. Um either author or publisher or yeah, so uh from their point of view, um it can take a lot longer to get an audition if you go with uh just the royalty share, because that's what most of them are. And they're they post a lot. I would estimate maybe I mean I don't know how many get posted today because uh my feed is filtered um to uh me personally, because well, I only speak English, sadly. I'm working on French.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

English male voice. Yeah, you gotta narrow it down.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

But even with my narrow slice, I would say there's at least ten titles a day that get put on there.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Um I I could say there's at least probably over I I would say anywhere from five hundred to a thousand audition or five hundred to a thousand books listed at any given time.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

And that's just a general blanket. It's gonna vary, of course, by criteria that's set in, whether it's male voice, female voice they're looking for, it's gonna vary. But overall, there could be anywhere from 500 to a thousand easily listed at any given time.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah, so lots of opportunities to get rejected. I mean, lots of opportunities to uh don't be such a pessimist.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Well, I mean uh it's interesting because sometimes new authors will put something out there and put this criteria out that's so grotesquely specific. And I understand, if it's your passion project, it's your your baby, which you've been working on for years, you're gonna have a very specific vision about what you want in an audiobook. And sometimes they're uh you know asking for royalty uh uh and not willing to uh necessarily pay better. Um which, you know, I'm not trying to dig any authors who like do royalty share because I love royalty share, it's it's um a really good way to go. But uh if you really want the like full immersive audio, multi-speaker cast experience, then you're gonna have to pay more for the upfront production on that. And there's a lot of new authors that it's their first time posting on there, and they have a two-page document about how specific they want all these things. And again, I understand to a degree, but um, you have to ask yourself, are you looking to just find uh somebody to narrate your book, or are you looking for like a um I can't think of the right word for it. I want to say like radio show production. Because there, you know, for anybody who has Audible, you know that there are more immersive experiences on Audible where they have music and sound effects and lots of different uh cast members and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, see sorry, didn't mean to cut you off.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

No, you're good. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Well, I was gonna say one of the things that um especially rights holders, I in my opinion, could consider when posting their the books that they want narrated on ACX is nothing's preventing them from doing an initial audiobook with just a single narrator. And then down the road as the book gets more popular, doing a higher end production with multiple readers and more sound effects and making it bolder. I mean they on anybody who does have Audible knows that they just released on Audible a full cast narration for Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

But a Harry Potter, you're talking a book that's I don't even want to know how old it is anymore. Maybe you won't go into that, that's gonna make it.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Don't Google it, it'll make me feel old.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

But you're talking a book that's several years old that they do have versions on Audible already, which with it just a single narrator.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I think they have like two or three different people who have narrated the Harry Potter books before.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

I think even Stephen Fry did it.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, that's the copy we have.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

I'm a big fan of Stephen Fry if you've never heard of him.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

That's the cop that's the ones that's the versions we have. But I know there's at least one or two others that have narrated the Harry Potter books.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

And they're all listed on ACX. And now with the new release of the multi-narrator books, it's just been relisted on ACX.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Right. Which, you know, from a listener standpoint is uh is something that's great, because you can choose between different performances. Like, uh, I listened to uh Lord of the Rings, and uh I did the one where Andy Circus narrated it, which is just as fun as you would imagine. Now, Andy Circus is uh insanely talented, so even without a full cast narration, you're gonna get uh quite a lot. But I would think that he probably got paid more than just a royalty share for that.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Uh well yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Um but all this has been to say that um there's different levels of production when you think about audiobooks. And from the rights holder author's point of view, there's different expectations as well, because some of them um are hoping to get the Andy Circus level of uh performance? Yeah, which is great if you're an up-and-coming voice actor, which I'm kind of a voice actor, but um, you know, improving over time. But I think uh I excel in just more or less just telling a story. Um, so it can be uh a little difficult sometimes when they're like, okay, I've got these seven characters, and I want all of their voices to be incredibly distinct, but not in a funny way. Because that's something I would say about myself is I'll give myself some uh B-rank voice acting credit when it comes to comedy production. I can do silly voice acting.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, you're you're more of a comedic voice actor than a serious serious toned voice actor. Yeah, so I don't mean any offense to that.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

I take no offense to that. Um so when somebody has this description where they're like, okay, I've got these 28 brooding characters and I need you to make them all different, it's like, I can't. I'm sorry, I'm just one guy. I'll do my best. You know, I can from a serious because like with um Conspiracy Within, um I would say I probably had to do about maybe five distinct voices. But if I'm being honest, some of the male characters who come and go throughout the story probably have a similar sounding voice. You know, if you played them back to back, uh, because you know, there's like Richard and Alex, who um I kind of have a distinct voice for. And Tim. And Tim. But e even like Tim and Alex probably get a little gray.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Um I I will say from from an outside perspective, it's the person who didn't actually narrate it, just edited it. It your voices for the characters are distinct enough that you could tell the difference of who's talking even in uh even without the extra context.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

It's they're distinct enough that you could tell, oh, that's gotta be this person talking. Oh, that's this that's clearly this person talking.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Yeah, and I think I tried to um and again, this being the very first book I was contracted for, um uh it was uh I made the mistake of not reading the book. In its entirety before starting the narration process. So uh so you know, not knowing we're which characters offhand were gonna be most important, which ones were gonna stay around the longest, um, you know, that could factor into how you do different voices. And I what I was hoping to accomplish more than anything else was to at least have in a scene, if there's two characters talking, at least differentiate their voices enough that it wouldn't be up to the surrounding narration for you to tell who was talking. So if there's two guys talking, I might have one that's a little lower in their voice, and then I might have one that's a little higher, that talks a little faster, a little more distinct. Things like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Um but I'm pretty sure you didn't use that second voice at all during the conspiracy.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

No, I don't think I did.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

I'm kind of grateful for that because it's more of serious undertones for a lot of the books.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Probably for the best.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Which again is why it was such a weird undertaking because my specialty is uh Parodies.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah. You specialize more in parodies, especially on on your YouTube than serious content.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

So I I can I can do a dozen maybe different silly voices that are fairly distinct, but when it comes to more serious, and I'm probably shooting myself in the foot if uh if future uh rights holders hear this, but um, yeah, like having absolute serious, it's uh it's a lot more difficult because um it they specifically say in their audition uh notes that we don't want we want distinct characters, but we don't want it to be overly theatrical. Which what does that even mean? Because, okay, you want something that's uh the only thing that came to mind is Frida Kahlo. So does I, Frida Kahlo.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

When you said overly dramatic, that's the first thing that popped into my head. There's no character I can think of that's more overly dramatic when it comes to performing.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Oh so I mean, all this is to say, I guess, that um people who are new to it on both sides might not know what to expect. And I think from the rights holder standpoint, sometimes they have potentially the wrong image in mind. Now, that's not to say there couldn't be um some uh young voice actors out there who are aspiring to show themselves off who can probably pull off all of this.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Well, and I I will say, you shouldn't discredit yourself so much because there are a lot of people who get into narrating audiobooks the same way you do or similarly to you did, where it's either a friend or a family member had a book that w was written and it kind of just happened. Um, but then for uh for some people out there, they are legitimate trained voice actors.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

You're not a trained voice actor at all. No, but you're still able to do all these voices really well. No, I'm not biased in the matter.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Oh, shucks. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

But you're able to do all these different distinct enough voices to be able to make a good, comprehensive, engaging story really come to life through narration.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah. And I think what most listeners want in an audiobook, they want something that, you know, definitely is engaging. But the main point of an audiobook is for you to be able to um experience a book that you don't have time or other means to read yourself. I know that I was a huge listener of Audible uh for a long time. I I still use Audible, but my my currently I don't have as much time as I used to to listen to audiobooks. But for me, it wouldn't would I enjoy some of the more bombastic shows? You know, Audible, like we'll put out originals where they have casts and music and sound effects and all this stuff. Yes, that's enjoyable. But when it comes to the books themselves, um I just want somebody who's understandable, uh consistent. Uh yeah, that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

It's just like comprehensive.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

So, um it just depends on what you're looking for. And uh I like to think I pre I have learned through trials and tribulations how to be a fairly good, sturdy, consistent audiobook narrator. Um now, of course, there were a lot of obstacles in in learning because it sounds simple. It sounds simple on paper, like, okay, you sit down in front of a microphone, you read a book, you upload it, call it a day, yippee, hooray.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

It is definitely not that simple.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

And maybe some of that comes from the the YouTube mentality, because YouTube is that way. You you you make a video, it could be as simple as recording something on your phone, it could be as elaborate as a huge giant set with actors and multiple cameras, you know, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

You have a wide range.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Yeah, but you make it, and then once you're done with it, you upload it, YouTube takes care of the rest.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, well, and and one of the things with YouTube is you don't have to edit it if you don't want to edit it. Right. Recommend definitely editing at least to some extent because some videos you could have some really high uh background noise, or you could be you you might end up talking louder than you think at some points. So definitely basic editing recommended.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Basic audio editing.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Um it's something people definitely take for granted uh when they make videos, and it's something I am constantly trying to improve on uh when I make my videos, uh, because even some of my older videos that I'm proud of, uh from way back when my sister and I were doing parody videos, um I I I'll listen to some of the audio editing I did there, and I'm like, oh man, what were you thinking? But the tools I had at the time weren't as uh sophisticated as the ones I have now, so I'm proud that I was able to accomplish it because I think the first video editor I ever used uh was one that came with a video capture card. You know, one that plugged in your computer and then it had the RCA cables, right? Which nobody's gonna know what those are anymore.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

But I'm sure some will.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

In ye oldy days.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, discredit those who listen, dang. Don't be so discredited.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Okay, well, there's been a there's been a history of how you hook uh audio video devices to a TV. Um the first standard was your coax, um, which they still use today for cable. So if you have cable, it's the you know, it's got a little bit of a.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

I just remember always having to change the flipping cable for some of the older gaming systems.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Having to change your actual cable input to the gaming system was always so annoying.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Yeah, and then you'd think you'd get it on there good, no signal would come through, so you had to take it off and try to put it back on and really jam it in there, and and then the threads wouldn't thread right.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

And then you'd for and then there were times where you'd forget to change out the cables when you were done, and then your parents would get mad at you because they couldn't watch the because they couldn't watch TV.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Or use the VCR.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, remember that. Because they couldn't get the because the wrong cable was in. That was always the worst.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

No. Those were the days. Also the days where you have to fight the antenna to uh you know, hop around to watch your favorite shows.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, it was worse if you had to stay there and hold it in a specific place because that's the only way the signal would come through. Otherwise, because as soon as you let it go, it would break up again.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

So you couldn't really so whoever was adjusting the antenna couldn't watch it, but you could at least listen.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Yeah, you're you you were the sacrificial uh person that was taking one for the team so everybody else could watch the show.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, you get a break during commercials.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Yeah. Yeah, and then the commercials would end, and then for some reason you'd stand in the exact same spot the exact same way, and for some reason it didn't come through as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, then you had to do the juggling act where it get it the single again, which you only got it halfway through the before the next commercial break.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

We're getting off topic.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Very much so. Uh point being, uh, yeah, so what are the why was I even talking about RCA?

SPEAKER_01 31:13

We were talking about the different ways to plug in devices.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Oh yeah, because I was saying the first video editor I used, it had the RCA inputs, which was the next one after Coax, they had RCA, which was they had red.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

The simple audio video cables where if you didn't plug the right cord in the right spot, you ain't gonna see anything.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Yeah, so it was red, white, yellow. And then later they came out with one where they had the video signal split up into three colors instead of one, and and then and then we got uh HDMI, which is pretty much what we have now, but not important. The point being, the video editing software I used came with that capture card. Um, and it was very simple. I think it had three tracks of audio, and you couldn't add any more than that.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

And so in order to, there were times I need I wanted more audio than that, so I'd edit the whole thing together with like the lines and the maybe like the lines and the music, uh, because it wouldn't let you override the audio track. So, for example, with my sisters and I, it we were doing a spiral parody, and so we had some capture from the gameplay, and so one of those three audio tracks was taken up by the audio from that gameplay capture, and you couldn't override it. It's not like you could say, okay, I want to delete this audio and use that track for something else. So you effectively only had two at that point. Right. So I'd do like one for music, one for dialogue, then I'd render that video out, re-import it to the project, and then I'd have two new tracks, and I'd use that for like sound effects or for whatever reason, anything else I would need it. And what I was able to accomplish with that just blows my mind. Because now it's just so easy to just say, okay, I need another audio track, I need another video track. Um but that's not important.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Well, it no, but it is important. Because you were able to learn from that at least the basics of how to compile all of these different files into one to make a good, coherent video, which those skills have adapted and translated into being able to easily edit and record the audiobooks.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Right. And I also think it's great because it shows me that if I have the spirit or the passion for a project, I'm gonna make whatever tools I have work. And that's another thing that intimidated me about getting into this kind of thing was Um you look up how to do it, and they're always gonna recommend expensive tools, expensive microphones, expensive um plugins for the expensive audio editing tools.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

And don't be fooled, you don't necessarily need them if you learn how to do it.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Yeah. Now, can they save you time?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Absolutely. Um they can save you time, but definitely not gonna save you money, especially if you're just starting out.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Yeah, so I was pleasantly surprised at how frictionless getting into it was. But um. Uh. But I learned a lot.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

The learning curve was steep.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Yeah. So one of the first things I learned is when I'm doing the parody stuff, I usually have um either a sound effect or music in the background to any given scene. So if there are minor background noises in my recording, it doesn't matter too much. But in an audiobook where all you're hearing is your voice, every background sound becomes painfully apparent.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah, adjusting in a chair, furnace kicking on, dog walking by with uh tags on the collar.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Twinky collar. Or uh this uh we have a fridge in the office where we keep drinks, uh and fridge kicking on and leaving that low rumble under everything. Yeah. And so I having to work around that a few times annoyed me enough that I started unplugging the fridge every time I had to record uh a chapter or two. And uh, you know, then kicking myself later when I didn't plug it back in. Thankfully, we don't typically keep perishable things in the because it's just a little mini fridge, it's nothing fancy.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Um It's the kind of fridge you'd expect. It's a little bigger than the kind of fridge you'd expect to have in a dorm.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Yeah. Uh it doesn't have a little freezer in it or anything, it's just just a fridge. It's very nice. I I like it. It does its job, but it annoyed the crap out of me when I was recording this stuff because I'm like, uh. I'd start talking and then um drrrrrrrrr. I mean it's it's it's quiet. If you are just sitting in the room, it's not gonna you're not gonna notice it, it's not gonna bother you. But you definitely notice it when you are recording, or when I'd have to go back and re-record a line, and then either the line I recorded had the fridge buzzing in the background, or the re-record had the fridge buzzing. So even if I tried to match my tone and cadence, I'd go to insert it and it'd be like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah like dang it, stupid fridge. So, you know, it's one of those things I didn't think about until I started it. Um and uh thankfully I do have a decent microphone. Um I use a blue Yeti microphone, which the real pros out there are gonna shudder in their shoes because for some reason real pros wouldn't be caught dead with these, even though I think they're pretty great microphones.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

And yes, real real pro quote unquote real pros are gonna sit there and say, Oh no, you have to buy a thousand dollar microphone because that's the only way you can give it good quality.

unknown 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

I'm sorry, you don't need a thousand dollar microphone. As long as you've got a good, decent microphone, you could do anything with editing.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Let's be honest. The the programs out there for editing and YouTube tutorials less YouTube tutorials will be able you'll be able to learn enough from all of that to edit out anything you need to.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yes, it's a learning curve for sure, especially like with me, I didn't know the first thing about editing before the whole book narration process started. I learned a lot during that process in order to be able to help get these books out there. I did a good portion of the editing, and for me it was a huge learning curve.

unknown 38:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Because I didn't make videos. I don't do any I didn't do any editing of any kind. Video, audio, nothing. But between Alex teaching me some stuff and YouTube tutorials, I was able to learn YouTube tutorials enough that I was able to edit a lot of these audiobooks down to get them where they needed to be to be able to actually get them out there.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Yeah. Um which again speaks to what I was saying earlier about if you're determined, if you're passionate about something, there is so much help to help you turn your project into what you want it to be. And sure, if I ever invest in a more expensive microphone, I'm sure it would work great. Um, because one of the problems I've heard about Yeti mics is some of them say they're too sensitive, that they're too good at picking up background noise versus um, you know, just talking. So maybe if I had a more expensive mic it would work better.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

But um, you know, I've made uh there are easier ways to get rid of background noise.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yes. Like turning your closet into a recording booth.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Indeed. Hey, remember, I stole that idea from a professional voice actor.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Because uh to to explain a little bit on that. Anyone who is familiar, I watch channel People vs. Food on YouTube a lot. And they do videos of the it's they're trying not to eat videos. Occasionally they'll have on there different celebrities like voice actors and things for especially animes. They lately they've had several anime act voice actors on their channel. And one of them just happened to be talking about how during COVID they couldn't go into a studio to record. So they took a closet in their home and padded it with soundproof padding, which you can just find on Amazon, to make an at-home recording booth.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

So it just so happens that in our office, which is a second technically a second bedroom, we have our c we have a closet. So I thought, okay, well, it's big enough. Why don't we try the same thing?

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

So we went on Amazon, found some soundproof padding, found some stupid little wall stickies to put on it, and literally covered the closet, which is a carpeted closet, from top to bottom, ceiling included, in just soundproof padding.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

And my lord, it works wonders.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Yeah.

unknown 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

I mean, I was a little dubious at first because um for those who know us, we have a few too many plushies in our lives. Um and the closet is too much. Oh yeah. Uh and the closet, up until that point, literally was just full of them. And um an initial thought I had was, oh, well, plushies absorb sound, so maybe we could just somehow line the walls with that. But the more uh the more that was thought about, the more ridiculous it sounded.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Well, because it was it was more of a not a matter of, you know, how silly it would look, because let me tell you, that would look absolutely hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

But more of the logistical aspect, because thinking of how you're gonna stick a bunch of plushies to a wall, not to mention the space it would take up.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Cause the you're talking a good, like, at least two-inch thick padding from stuffies.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

If you're lucky, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

On all the walls.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Plus the ceiling.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Yeah, and and trying to make them stay either through a series of ropes or nets or uh yeah, it was uh simpler, faster, cheaper to just buy the dang padding.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

I mean, we could have made it work. I'm sure. I don't know how we would have made it work, but we could have made it work.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, but again, I feel like it would have been more expensive with whatever we'd have to buy.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

So what were we thinking?

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Um so there was that.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Um and uh it's been an uh ongoing process, uh, because one of the issues I found even when I made the recording booth was my office chair that I put in there was uh really squeaky. I'd make the slightest movements and you know, you could think that, okay, I'll just sit still, I won't move. It's impossible. I've been a twitchy person from the day I was born. Actually, according to my mom, from before I was born. Uh she thought I was a girl, uh actually, because she thought, oh look, it must be a dancer wanting to dance. I don't dance, I don't sing.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Um well technically Okay. Uh again, in Conspiracy Within, there's a couple of parts where there are musical references, and those musical references uh one especially It came from a music box. Therefore, as a narrator, he kind of had to sing to imitate the music box?

SPEAKER_03 44:12

I didn't have to imitate the music box itself. Well, yeah, making little chimney chime sounds, but um to imitate the vocals from the music box.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

How's that?

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Well, because a a character looks up the song, and the song is canonically playing in the story.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Because you remember Grail looks it up and she's playing it from a No, I thought it was playing from the music box.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

No.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Okay, my bad.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

She she pulls it up on quote unquote one of the more popular video sites.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Oh, that's right. You're right, you're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Um so yeah, there's in in the story itself, there's this song playing, and it's explicitly, you know, written in the book um what the what the song is playing, and it's it's a s it's a singy song, as they tend to go. And I again when it comes to singing, just like voice acting, if it's for a silly purpose, sure. I can make a character sing something silly. And it's actually something Carol Burnett said once. Um sorry if you don't know who that is. Um, but you know, she said she wasn't much of a singer inherently. She uh, but she would sing all the time with these comedic characters she would play. And I'm kind of the same way. I can make a character jokingly sing something, but I'm not gonna like release an album uh of me trying to sing seriously because it's just not my passion. It's not it I don't think it's where my town slides. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Again, no offense intended, but you No, no, it's fine. I don't think you'd make it as a professional singer.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

No. So sorry, Sue, sorry, Sean, uh uh. I did my best. It took several painful takes, and I feel sorry for you as well, because you had to edit them and try to figure out which cat scratch sounded the best. It was not that. Uh so yeah. But yeah, so do listen to the book.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

I don't think you're selling it with that one. No, it it in all reality, it is a good book. I'm not just saying it because it's a relative, it's a really good book. I'm critical when it comes to books.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

But it is it is a really good book, I promise.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Yeah, but regardless, um, I believe we were talking about the recording booth or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

We were talking about the recording booth.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

Well, how did that lead to singing?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

I don't even remember. Uh I'm the one who's supposed to keep track better.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Well, regardless.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Oh, we were talking about your chair.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

We were talking about the chair and the recording booth and how it would make a bunch of noise.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Yeah, because that that is a weird thing when you do sit in a place that's sound padded. Now it's not anechoic by any means, which, if you're not familiar with what that means, it's kind of what it sounds like. Um they have these um specifically built chambers um that, you know, really, really soundproof the crap out of things, to the point where there's no echo, hence the term anachoic. And it drives some people bananas being in these places uh because you'll turn your if you're like facing somebody and you turn your head and talk, you can't hear them. It's bizarre. I've never been in one. BYU has one, um, but I've never been there, so. Regardless, um, even going from a normal room you're used to to a room that's sound padded, it um feels a little claustrophobic at first. Uh, just because everything feels muffled, which makes it feel inorganic and a little bizarre, but it then makes you start to notice every little sound that you might not have noticed otherwise, hence the chair problem. And um something I'm super guilty of that I've noticed, regardless of whether it's in the sound booth, is apparently my mouth will make little clicky noises once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Everybody does.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Okay, apparently everybody does. Which now that I know what to listen for, I hear it in professional things all the time, so I'm not as self-conscious, but when I first heard it, I thought, oh, well, I cannot do this narration thing because my uh body's fundamentally broken in a way that makes the sound quality bad. But apparently it's pretty normal. Um editing, if you know what to look for.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Um so you know, it's uh it's just one of the many, many things. It's like in programming, whenever you fix one problem, you find 12 more. Uh so there's never been a point where this whole process has become super like straightforward and easy, especially as I learn what the best way to record or edit is. Um, and uh like one of the things we ran into is something called RMS, because like we were saying, with YouTube, they're not gonna sit there and criticize the quality of your audio. You can upload the most crap audio sounding thing, and if nobody watches it, that's whatever. But with Audible, they have specific standards for the sample rate, which for some reason they have at uh 44,100 Hertz, which is a CD audio standard, um, which is uh based on the limit of human range, doubled and then a little more in there for fun. Uh, but most modern recording software or devices record at 48,000 Hertz or 48 kHz. Um, so that's one of the problems we ran into is when we started uploading these files, they're like, oh, the sample rate is wrong. You know, and I'm not quite sure what their motivation behind that is. It could just be a legacy thing that they want it to match CD audio for some reason. You would think they'd want it the higher sample rate the better, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

It is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Yeah. So that's one thing we ran into. The other one is called RMS, which don't ask me what it stands for. More or less, it stand but what it equates to is the average loudness of an audio file. Um, which, you know, like I said, as a listener, people want a fairly consistent listening experience. You don't want to have to sit there and turn up and down the volume as you're listening to an audiobook. And so with Audible, they manifest that with a metric called RMS. Um so the greater the difference between your most uh quiet parts and your loudest parts of your file, uh the crappier RMS value you're gonna have. And if it's not within Audible standards, they'll reject the file. So that's something we learned the hard way.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Um definitely learned the hard way.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

Yeah, and I remember the first tutorial, um, because hooray for YouTube tutorials, um uh the first tutorial uh I found it was helpful to an extent, but the person was so professional that they're like, okay, let me record a sample. Oh look, my sample is perfectly in compliance. Isn't that great? I'm like, okay, how about showing us one that's not in compliance to help us uh help us actually learn how to edit. Yeah, I mean, there was still some good advice in there, because one of the biggest pieces you can do to negate that is take your hu hugely loud audio, because i if you've seen an audio editor, uh most of the time they show it in a form called waveform where you kind of have a graphical representation of your um audio file, and you can see the louder the particular peaks the taller they are, and so you can go in and physically just squash those down um in most programs pretty easily. Uh the program I use is called Audition from Adobe, and you know they they just have an on-screen thing where you can highlight any section and just uh instantly raise or lower the amplitude. Uh so that helps a lot going through and squashing any really loud files. There's also something called compression. Um, not to be confused with the compression that makes file sizes smaller. This is compressing the waveform, so it uh it decreases the difference between your quietest and loudest uh parts of the file as well. Um and then there's some mastering things that we've we've had to learn how to do on top of that. I say we, you're the one who usually makes RMS happy.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

It just takes very precise tweaking.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Different even for different because you could be listen you could be doing the same working on the same audiobook in this case, and each chapter is going to have a different metric that you have to tweak it to in order to meet those RMS standards for ACX.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

So it it's no two chapters are gonna be exactly identical in that. And I mean, heck, you can even have one chapter you do and have to redo and it could still be a different number.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

If you have to redo a full chapter, you're gonna get a different number than you did with the first time.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

So it it takes a lot of very minor tweaking to get it where it needs to be for RMS for ACX.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

Yeah, and we quickly learned that unless there is a specific need to make a file stereo, it doesn't add anything to the end product. And it only complicates, especially RMS, because you could have one audio channel, like the left channel, be in compliance, but the right one not. And so you have to tweak it.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Uh yeah, you've gotta you've gotta sit there and uh there were some I had to tweak. I I would have to go back and redo four or five different times to find the exact number I had to hit to edit it for RMS.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Yeah, I mean I've got a sticky note on my monitor right now that uh shows Audible's RMS uh range that's acceptable just because I forget all the time.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

So I'm sure it's burned into my brain.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

Yeah, well, I'm not quite there yet, because like I said, you you've dealt with the RMS a lot more than I have. Um but uh yeah, it's just one of those many, many things that you don't anticipate. And uh we learn the hard way. But that means moving forward, projects will go faster, they will go better.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Stop looking so bad.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Um and so I'm proud of what we've learned. I just, you know, uh kick myself sometimes for the way I have done certain things. Uh but I you know I don't hate myself for mistakes because every mistake leads to uh every mistake is just a learning opportunity. Yeah. You know, everything I know how to do well in life comes with doing it wrong a thousand ways before.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

So we're not trying to sound like Thomas Edison here, you know, uh different ways. Thousand ways they failed at something. Just to get right once. We're not trying to quote.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

Yeah, apparently the right way, especially if you're going to Edison's standard, is you know, you just uh crush your rival and steal their ideas. But that's not important.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Let's not go into that.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

Um But uh this whole time we've been mostly talking about the book The Conspiracy Within by Sean Mackey, but uh as mentioned before, I shot myself in the foot by doing another shoot yourself in the foot.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

You just bit off a little more than you could chew.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Yeah. Um but I was able because with uh Sean's book, we were able to uh, you know, I did the audition basically through email. It was before I even fully knew what ACX was. I mean, through the process of uh starting the narration, you know, I set up a profile with ACX and stuff, but it it was uh but I didn't I didn't even have to do a formal ACX audition um for Sean's book. You know, I got the contract outside of ACX and uh you know, but then eventually worked through ACX to post it. Uh but uh during this process I uh auditioned for and got uh I don't know if Contracted. Contract, that's a good word. Yeah, because I want to say the role, but I don't know if role's the right word.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

I wouldn't say role is the right word when it comes in terms of audiobooks.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

Umless you're literally auditioning for a multi-narration audiobook.

unknown 58:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

Then you could say roll. But in this case, since you're doing the whole book, I'd say contract.

SPEAKER_03 58:42

Yeah, so I would say my first independently contracted book was one called Maybe It's COD Outside. That's C-O-D. Which uh funny story there, I I probably produced about four to five chapters in that book before I realized that that was its title. Even in some of my earliest working files, I thought it was called Baby It's Cold Outside. But no, it's it it's a pun because one of the main characters is the heir apparent to a fish processing plant. So, um, you know, fish joke. Um seems fishy. And as somebody who absolutely loves a good pun, it made me love the book even more. Like, I I probably would have, you know, been just as enthusiastic to take the book on, uh, even before I knew the title was a pun, but uh knowing it's a pun made it all the better. But uh so it was my first uh you know audition acceptance for a book.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Through ACX.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

Yeah, through ACX. And it's a fun book. I I'm I'm trying not to be biased here, but I'd recommend it. Um just because it's um uh a charming male-male romance mystery book. And uh, you know, I don't want to give too much away about it, but uh, you know, the main thing is the two protagonists are, like I said, one is uh named Ben Whitaker. He's the uh son of the owner, CEO, if you will, of the fish processing plant that keeps this town uh called Silver Shoals alive. It's the backbone of their economy and stuff. And uh the other one is an investigative reporter, um, and you know, uh Hijinx and Sue when the investigative reporter um starts looking to the Whitaker processing plant to uh see if they have anything to do with a bunch of dead fish in the area. So I won't give away any more than that, but uh uh it's one of the funner books I've read. Not just because I narrated it, but you know, I enjoyed the book itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

Um It's a good light-hearted uh male-male romance.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Yeah. So uh the author on that one is Kat Cassidy. Um, and uh for some re uh uh the way things turned out, Conspiracy Within was the first book I got contracted for, but it uh Baby It's Caught Outside got sandwiched around it. Um in other words, I I finished Baby It's Caught Outside, which I called Bicko when we were working on it because that's the initials. Um but Bicko got done before Sean's book got done.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Well, I mean, bearing in mind it was what at most half the length of Conspiracy Within. Because I think baby it's caught outside landed at I think it's like five hours in length. Yeah. Where Conspiracy Within is like twelve.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

Twelve, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

So That's a lot of recording and editing work.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Well, and so during both of these books, which um maybe I'll get to a point where uh it will be uh talented or magically have enough free time to do two at once, but uh my preference right now is not to. Uh but both of these books were part of that learning process. Um and so I can't thank Kat enough for uh giving me the opportunity to bring her book to life and uh learn how to cope with ACX. Um because I I remember uh one of the one of the things that uh we also learned about ACX is once your book is complete and you submit it, it takes a maximum It takes an average. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

It takes an average of ten days. Business days to go from that book being submitted for publication to the book actually being available on Audible.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

And it could take a it could take a few days after that for it to be available through like Apple and Google Books.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

Yeah, and I really hated that with uh with Kat's book because there's a lot of Christmassy themes in the book. And even though it was submitted before Christmas, between the standard ten business days and, you know, it being a holiday time of year, it didn't get published until after the new year.

unknown 1:04:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

And so knowing what I know now, um, uh from a technique standpoint and everything else, uh I would have tried to do a lot more to uh to get it done sooner. But there was a lot going on in my life that time, uh, from dealing with appointments and stuff involving my mom's uh recently diagnosed cancer and stuff that uh um and that's the busiest time of year for freight workers as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Uh between your employment, family health emergencies, holidays.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:00

Yeah, it's one of those if I knew the amount of things that were gonna be shoved on my plate unexpectedly, then I probably wouldn't have taken on a project. But I liked the book enough uh I wanted to see it done, but I wanted it done right. I didn't want to rush it. Um but I still kick myself for the fact that it didn't get out before Christmas. Um so uh here's hoping it'll be a Christmas uh hit uh this coming year. But you know, you live and learn. But those are the two uh at the moment of this recording, uh those are the two that you can find on Audible right now. Um I've got uh another book I contracted. I'm not gonna go into details on that because uh there can be complications.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

It's it's still very it it was just with it just being contracted what last week. Yeah there's a lot of still developmental things in there and kinks to work out, but third book coming. Yeah for for under his narration.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

Yeah. Because another thing I learned is uh if you're getting into this, you might get contracted for a book, and then when you're given the transcript, uh realize maybe you're not a good fit for that book. Because there was uh a book I was contracted for.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

I'm not gonna go into details about it because I don't wanna uh you know we'll just leave it at there was a book that you were contracted for that just wasn't a good fit after you got into reading it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:02

Yeah. I will leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:04

Yeah, which for those out there, there are you you definitely recommend it if you're not a if you're just new to getting into the narrating. It's not a bad idea to read the books and the book transcripts fully before starting work on it, because you could end up getting into a position where if you don't read it, you could end up getting a decent way into the process of recording everything for a book and find that it's not a good fit.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

Which uh is unfortunately the the scenario here is with with that book, it was got through uh what was like halfway through? Yeah, about halfway through the book. Found that it wasn't a good fit. So it's not a bad thing to read a book prior to doing the recording just to get more of a feel for it, because auditions aren't gonna give you the full scope of the book.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:10

Unless, like that one author did on that one audition, they accidentally posted their entire book in the audition script.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Yeah, but uh I'm sure that was not intentional and definitely advise not to do that, because that can just easily be a way for people to get your book for free. So don't do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

Yeah, if you're an author out there and you want your book uh narrated. Yeah, don't upload your full book. Because the minute something's out there on the internet, people are gonna find it, copy it, and then people can get it for free.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

So uh it'll spread like wildfire.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:42

And please, artists, know your worth. Don't put your work out there for free if you've put your heart and life into it. Um and then there's other auditions that feel like they posted the whole book. Um, like uh with the book I just got contracted, the because I I yeah, I do auditions in like um groups. I do a bunch of them at once. Um and there was uh in the group I did, there was one I didn't do that I meant to do, but then I got this contract, and I'm not gonna throw out auditions when I'm working on a contract, because I don't want to uh do more than one at once, or have to tell an author, oh, I could do this book, but I'm busy, you're gonna have to wait uh a few weeks because then they're better off just going with somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

I was not gonna say you can't submit auditions when you're getting to the end of working on a book. Yeah, yeah. That that's definitely recommended for consistent workflow.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

But uh but no, this one audition that I was going to do, uh was probably 40 pages long. And and these are Microsoft Word pages, mind you. So, um I don't know what the author was thinking. Um I understand you want to get a feel for your narrator. You want to make sure that in the audition you have uh all the bits and pieces and moving parts that are gonna be necessary to tell your story. So all of your primary characters um and so on. But when you post an audition that long, um it kind of deters from people wanting to audition for it. Which maybe that's their point. You know, maybe they only want people who are really, really serious, which, you know, I was serious about it. I was gonna do it. Um, but knowing that I could do six auditions in the time that I could do that one, uh I chose to do the six first and thankfully got a contract, so that's good. But, you know, it's something to think about if you are a book publisher, is uh, you know, audition scripts in themselves are a bit of an art form, because uh you want to give something that is gonna show you the flavors you need to put together the dish of your audiobook, but not necessarily um an all-you-can-eat buffet of flavors. Because that that would also be painful from their point of view, because if I had to estimate the length of that audition being read, it would probably have been about an hour. Um so you're looking at And that's after everything. Yeah. So you're looking at have having to listen to something that's an hour long for every audition. And you know, maybe you know right off the bat, you know, that uh somebody's voice isn't what you're looking for, and that's fine. But if not, then it it's like a teacher who assigns um a 10,000-word essay. It's like you're just hurting yourself as the teacher having to read and grade all of those. You know. Um, but that's beside the point. Um I think sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

No, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:01

Well, I think we were both jumping on the same thing here, which is uh um what uh we look like moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Oh yeah, I was gonna ask you, so with all of that being said, um, is there anything that you yourself personally would or will do differently moving forward with all of it?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

Yeah, I think um a lot of it comes down to technical aspects. Um like recording the book in mono um instead of stereo, just because that makes it easier for RMS, and again, unless there's an active need to do stereo files, um, it makes the files smaller, which makes them better for streaming anyway. Uh I mean some people download audiobooks um in the app, but a lot of the times they're just being streamed, and a lot of times they're being streamed when people are like commuting, so you want a good streamable file. Um, you know, and then we've made some infrastructural changes, like instead of recording at my desk, now I record in a closet. Uh call it a recording booth.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

Um a fabric chair.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

Yeah. So it it's not so squeaky. And then there's some other things like um uh something called punch and roll editing or recording rather, where instead of the the typical way I did it before was I'd read it, I make a mistake, because if you're gonna do this, you're gonna make mistakes. A lot of them. Even the professionals make a lot of mistakes. So don't be discouraged if you start reading a book and you stumble, you lose your place. Or like me, my voice gets ahead of my eyes sometimes, is the best way I can word it. Where I'll be focused on saying a particular word uh correctly, and then uh I kind of stall out. So the way I used to do it is I made a mistake, I just stop, try again, stop, try again, but there's a built-in method in audition. I think it's in other recording things too. It's it's called punch and roll, where you can say, oops, I made a mistake, stop for a second, move your cursor, and then to where you want to replace your audio, and then it'll jump back. I think the default is five seconds, but you can make it as long as you want. Uh so you can start, you'll be listening to what you recorded, and you can start talking along with it, so you can try your best to match the tone, volume, cadence, all that stuff, and then it just picks up right where your cursor is. So instead of having to go back and tease out all of these mistakes you made, uh the editing is more just about the refinement. So it makes the uh audio editing a little easier. I mean, I'm gonna say that, but you're the one who does a lot of the editing, so I would hope it makes it easier.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:16

Oh, it definitely makes it easier. Because then it's not a matter of, oh, I was doing you're it's not a matter of going through and listening to okay, which one's the best take out of these five possible takes. It's oh, okay, if this was misspoken, then it's just a re-record. It's not, oh, was this misspoken and re-recorded right after?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:39

It's oh, this was just a misspoken thing, it needs to be redone.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:44

Yeah. So that's another thing. And another thing I've learned is slow down. And I'm not saying that so that people who do like per finished hour uh things can get paid more, so they get more hours, but I find to make it the most understandable for people who are listening, and to prevent myself from stumbling a whole bunch, uh, to just slow down a little bit when I read. Because, especially if I'm going back and trying to edit something, and I accidentally added an extra word, because things like that happen. You know, I try my best to concentrate, but it happens all the time. This crazy love of mine. No, um, where you read a sentence and your brain will either add or delete a word. And if if if it's a word you added, um, and I'm sitting there just reading, you know, kind of one word at a time, but in a good natural cadence, then it can be removed in post if need be.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

Uh tricky sometimes, but it's possible.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:59

Yeah. But uh well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

You can't just go in and add a word, you'd have to record re-record the whole thing. Yeah, it's a good thing. Adding a single word doesn't work.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:13

Yeah, and uh and that's something else I've noticed is when I watch YouTube videos and stuff, um mine included, um, I can it's so it's so much easier for me to spot when people do audio patches in their um in their videos.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

Yeah, because you're never gonna get a patch 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:33

Yeah, no. And you know, I don't laugh at them and say, ha, you messed up. I'm like, ooh, I feel for you, buddy. High five. I want to give you a hug, because I I know what it's like to be like, dang, I meant to say something else here, or oh, I said that wrong, I read that wrong. Um so uh it's not a point and laugh, it's uh give them a hug. I feel sympathy for people a lot more now. Um but uh so I feel with my setup now, uh how I record, how I prepare files, how I have my recording space, um, it's all been tuned through painful trial and error uh to make this a lot more efficient and a lot more feasible. Um and yeah, so moving forward, I I think basically just every project I've done, I've learned another thing I'm doing silly. So moving forward, I'm gonna learn more things I'm doing silly and try to undo them. Do them a little smarter, a little simpler, so it's easier on us, easier on our Audibles side to make the whole process smoother, faster.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

Uh I will I will say as a note, for those who want to get into narrating, another tip don't try and record when you're tired or you've got plans. Because you're going to miss sentences completely if you do that. If you're rushing too much, if you're half asleep while trying to record, you will not just miss words, you will miss full sentences. Which, if you're the one who's doing the editing as well, you'll probably laugh at your laugh at yourself. If you've got somebody helping you with the editing, you can guarantee they're gonna be laughing their butts off when they're doing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:41

I I can tell you that firsthand.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:43

Yeah. Well, and for a lot of these contracts, they give you a reasonable timeline to get things done. Uh so it's you know, don't rush. Just pace it out so that you can because if if you make too many because uh I I can think of at least one chapter, and it was a longer chapter, that I had to re-record because um I made the mistake of not reading it ahead of time, and I I kept thinking, surely the chapter's almost done. Surely the chapter's almost done, but it kept going and going and going. And and and and you can kind of and you sense that as the listener. You you you hear me getting out of breath, you hear me being a little more flustered, which for that chapter, it was required some uh of of a character to be fairly flustered and concerned and frustrated. So maybe it would have worked for the best, but I ended up having to redo it just because uh I care about the end product enough to be like, okay, you know what? Uh I'm not gonna do that to the author, I'm not gonna do that to myself. Uh I'm just gonna I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna do it right. So, yeah, good point. Um, and make sure and and if you've got a cough, don't even try. You're gonna kill yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:04

Well, and then uh the last tip I was gonna give is for those who are do involved in the editing process for audiobooks, videos, whatever, if when you're just starting out, do not be afraid to take the time to do a second edit.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:26

Because in your first edit, the primary, especially with audiobooks, the first thing you're gonna be looking for is any missed words, duplicate sentences, redoes that have to be done, uh, words that have to be taken out because they were added. That's the primary focus of your first listen through. But trust me, even then, as an editor, you're still going to miss stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:51

And darn, we're human.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

Doing a second listen through after your primary edit is not a bad idea. If I could go back with with Conspiracy Within and with Baby It's Caught Outside, I would go back through and do a second listen through, a second edit, just to double check everything. Now, with Baby It's Caught Outside, it wasn't as much of a thing because they weren't long chapters. Um, your average chapter for that book was I think like 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

So they weren't long chapters, so it was a little easier to make sure that the editing was done correctly the first time. But for a book like Conspiracy Within, an average chapter in that book is a half hour to 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:40

And if you're listening to the same audio file for that long, you're going to miss stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:48

No matter how hard you try, you're going to miss it.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:51

Which is another reason not to procrastinate in the process, because, you know, the more you rush it, the more you're gonna miss something and missay something and have to go back and fix it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Yeah, I mean, it's a good reason not to procrastinate, and it's also also make sure you're you yourself are open to feedback.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:14

Because every book on ACX has to go through a process where it's approved by the rights holder. Whether you get that contract outside of ACX or it's through ACX, the rights holder will always be the last one who will listen to it before it gets sent for clearance through ACX itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:34

And they're going to be listening to it from a fresh perspective, because they're not going to have listened to it before. So if especially if they're very familiar with the book, they're going to point out and find things that you missed.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:48

Which isn't a bad thing. Because then again, it means you're just going to learn. You're going to go back through, you're going to take the time to do a second or third edit. So that when it goes to the rights holder, they aren't going to have as many things that they'll have to point out or listen for, if anything at all. So you're just doing a little more on your end to help the process along.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:15

So it's definitely worth taking the time to do a second or third edit.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:21

For sure. Like you said, just like when I'm reading, it's easy to accidentally add a word. It's uh easy to miss a word when you're editing, because it's it's intense. Because you have to sit there and read along as you're listening to it. And you know, we're human, our attention spans aren't infinite, so it's easy to miss little things. And that's okay. Because even authors miss things. You know, you you'll have a final book that's published, and there'll be a mistake in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:51

Authors miss things, editors miss things, publishers miss things. It's it's life. We're human.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:56

Yeah. To us. Not literally. Yeah, please don't.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

Figure speech. Uh just a figure speech.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

But no, it's been a fantastically fun and interesting addition into my life, and I'm so grateful that I have you to help me uh figure out the process, figure out how to do it uh better, and um I'm happy to keep going. And I hope to make this a part of my life a lot moving forward because it's uh it's uh it's fun. I don't know how else to word it. It's fun. It's uh I I do enjoy it, and uh it doesn't mean I take it lightly. In fact, I don't. I take it very seriously, and I try to do um the best I can and constantly improve the end product for the rights holders. Um, but I've always been passionate about content creation and having it be a part of my life so unexpectedly soon, because it was always one of those down the road things in my mind of uh eventually someday maybe. Uh so having it just bulldoze its way into my life has been amazing, and you know, you're never ready for uh disruptive changes, but it's been one of the best disruptive changes of my life because now I can probably tell people, yeah, I uh produce audiobooks and um and I'm not one to be proud of myself, hardly ever. So um so yeah, I'm happy with it, and I'm happy to uh keep doing it. And if anybody's curious about it, I hope that if you hear this, it gives you some d pitfalls to avoid and gives you some of what to expect about the whole process. Um, you know, to just be patient with yourself and with uh the rights holders and stuff. And uh I wish you luck if it's what you do, because I know um I'm gonna keep doing it, and I'm sure in a year looking back, there's gonna be even more things I'm gonna say. Oh, I wish I would have known X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:19

Maybe we should do a like six-month or year follow-up. Who knows?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:23

We can. But I think that's all that I uh really have to say about that. I don't know if there's anything else you would like to add.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:31

Well, the only thing I want to add is uh I uh we definitely want to give a huge thanks to Kat Cassidy, Sean Mackey, Susan Mackey, as well as all those at Phillips and Done Publishing for even giving this great opportunity to us.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:50

So for for all of you out there, it's greatly appreciated. We can't thank you enough for it. Yeah, for trusting us to actually get these books. Out there to the public. So yeah, just wanted to add that.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:05

Yes, it's been amazing. We love you all. And to all the rest of you out there listening, I hope you have a lovely rest of your week, and we hope to see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:22

Have a good one.