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Teds thoughts with Robbie Bargh of Gorgeous Group. From Beefeater to Waldorf Astoria: A Journey Through Hospitality.

• Ted Schama • Season 4 • Episode 2

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Robbie Barr, founder of Gorgeous Group, shares his journey from humble beginnings in Manchester to becoming a leading hospitality consultant who transforms hotel dining and drinking experiences worldwide. His philosophy of creating "emotion per square foot" has shaped iconic venues from Dishoom to Waldorf Astoria.

• Growing up watching classic Hollywood musicals with his deaf grandmother inspired Robbie's view of hospitality as theatre
• First restaurant experience at age 16 sparked his fascination with the transformative power of hospitality
• Creating "perfectly imperfect" spaces helps guests feel comfortable enough to lower their guards and have authentic experiences
• Getting clients "comfortable with being uncomfortable" is key to pushing beyond conventional hospitality formulas
• Notable projects include Kimpton Clock Tower in Manchester, Waldorf Astoria in Osaka, and The Wigmore at The Langham London
• True hospitality means guests leave happier than when they arrived
• Great hospitality combines exceptional product with storytelling, design, music, and a team that loves showing up


Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Ted Sharma, founder of One Voice Hospitality. I've been in the game for over three decades. I love speaking, as you all know, and in fact, I love the people and the characters in my industry. It's in the nature of hospitality to talk and engage, and likewise for property people to network, so, loving the chat and the sector meant only one thing a podcast to bring them all together. There's plenty of successes and plenty of challenges at the same time, so I think it's important to share our worlds with you. Over the series we're going to talk to some of the industry's leading figures, hear their stories and really make this the conversation starter for our industry. Please subscribe to the ongoing series and I hope you enjoy it. So, ladies and gentlemen, I have great pleasure in introducing a chap Namely. What if I say he's gorgeous In name, literally and metaphorically, and now I have to give away, his name is Robbie Barr from the Gorgeous Group. Welcome, robbie.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, ted. That's so lovely. Thank you, it's great to be here.

Speaker 1:

Mate, you know what you are. You're a professional's professional, because this is meant to be a podcast to enlighten people and help people and share journeys from professionals point of view. And you know this is not meant to be a mass-market podcast, not like, not there's anything wrong with that, but it's about really sharing experiences and a bit of knowledge and a bit of a giggle. And I've asked you on purpose because you're one of those people that can share so much but not a lot of people you know, but not a lot of people in the sector will know, but you're not. Can I say this in a nice way? You're not necessarily a household name in the sense of a big chef or a big CEO. So I've been really excited to get you on board and we've had a few full starts. But we're here now. You're smiling, you're smiling, I'm smiling.

Speaker 1:

Tell me, robbie, about your journey. I'd love to hear a bit before we get into today's world and I know you've you've been a fan a little bit, so I know you've heard a few of my podcasts. I try and always listen. You know like to rewind a bit, hear a bit about what set you off with hospitality. You know why didn't you become it. Why aren't you in fashion? Because you're so fashionable.

Speaker 2:

So that's so lovely. It's funny really. You know, like a lot of your guests, I guess I fell into into hospitality. You know I went through school. I'm from Manchester. You know I went through school, I'm from Manchester.

Speaker 2:

I was brought up in a small little council house and you know, we didn't go to restaurants at all. We, you know, my mum was single mum. We had no, we had no money to go to restaurants and I think the first restaurant I ever went to I think it was my 16th birthday and I went to the Beef Eater and it was the local Beef Eater and it was in the Heaton Park Hotel. I can remember it vividly and I couldn't believe that these people, these wonderful, you know, ladies and gentlemen, dressed as Beef Eaters, were serving prawn cocktail and, you know, and fillet steak and, and, you know, and and and phillips steak and, you know, black forest gato dressed up in this wonderful garb. I thought, wow, this is amazing. And I grew up with my, with my um, you know, spending a lot of time with my grandma, who was deaf and dumb, and she was an amazing lady, she's my real hero and she would watch these incredible, fabulous musicals, these wonderful old, glamorous Buzz Barkley spectacular films and she'd have the volume up so loud because she was deaf and she'd have a hearing alien. But she would lose herself in this whole world. And I sort of got, you know, know, I fell in love with those worlds and I fell in love with the fact that, actually, you know, going out, you know, being looked after and being transported to another place was something quite magical and, um, yeah, I, I found myself, you know, going into that sort of world.

Speaker 2:

I was, you know, I worked in clubs in Manchester, quite salubrious clubs, doing things I can't really talk about, but then found my feet, you know, working initially in restaurants and I actually, I think, you know I had an amazing first boss in a restaurant. I was a trainee management and my boss was a lady called carol darwin and it was a restaurant group called muswell's, which no one remembers, you know, gentlemen of a certain age. You know, you know it was this great sort of american brasserie and you know they had a wonderful restaurant, um, in king street west, um, just behind kendall's, just deansgate in Manchester, and I went to work I was very lucky, I'd gone through a management program and I spent some time in the kitchen, some time on the floor and reception back of house, and my boss, carol, was just instrumental in helping me fall in love with this whole world and I thought it was very similar to the world that my grandma would get lost in when she would watch films, in that it was pure theatre. It's like live theatre. Each service was like live theatre and anything could happen, depending on the audience, depending on the guest. And I just fell in love and I worked in the kitchen and I didn't think that was necessarily something I was going to really enjoy. I wanted to be out there on the floor and you know Carol used to say to me you know it's like having a party at home, you need to treat it like a party at home, but you just don't know the guests are going to walk through the door and you know, but you need to anticipate their needs, you need to read them, you need to look after them and it and that that world was pretty something I I fell in love with. And so carol was my very first boss and you know and she's someone I, I I talk about now um to to you know to people and say you know, if it wasn't for carol I would never have got into the industry.

Speaker 2:

And then I sort of fell into working in restaurants, um, in groups, and, you know, worked in bizarre places like cardiff, nottingham, northampton, and then finally made it to london and um went to work for whitbread. Um went to, you know, went to work in hotels, went to work in four-star hotels, uh, the tower thistle, which was a huge, you know like a big factory. And so then I went to work for, you know, alan Yao. I opened Wagamama with him and I sort of I fell in love with this whole world and I think I got drawn to hotels purely because of the. You know that I've always been fascinated by. You know, if you go to a hotel, it's a combination of reality and fiction and they're the best hotels in the world, where you walk into a lobby and you could be. You know it could be the best day of your life and it could. You know, you could be anyone and you could be there for an hour, you could have a coffee, you could stay the night, you could stay a week, but you know there was an opportunity to, you know, to really create your own world whilst you were there, and I think that's what hotels are magical, and if you combine that with the live theatre you get in restaurants, then you've got something quite special.

Speaker 2:

I then worked with some of my heroes and eventually I came back to London in 2000. And I'd worked for some amazing people and, you know, found myself almost unemployable because I was quite tricky. I was, you know, I was quite an opinion, I was quite passionate and you know, I found myself sort of, you know, creating my own little business called Gorgeous Group, and actually it was my grandmother, my grandma, who helped me call it gorgeous, because she said who is not going to love you when you pick up the phone and go, hello, gorgeous. And I thought absolutely right. And who's not going to pay your bills? And I thought absolutely right. So you know that's where it came from and she would always call me gorgeous. Know, that's where that's where it came from and she would always call me gorgeous. So that's where the initial you know that, that you know that that sort of initial kickoff came um.

Speaker 2:

And then, you know, in the last 20-25 years, um, I get to do what you know, I love and I enjoy and it is, you know, and I get paid for it and, um, I have a small team and but I make, I create this theatre, this drama, this energy, and I get the opportunity of making eating and drinking in hotels better than what they are you know today. So, yeah, I'm very fortunate. I fell in love with the career by complete chance complete chance, um. But now I find myself sort of um on planes and in cities and working with you know incredible hotels and incredible clients who I would never, ever have thought I could do.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, it's been amazing love it, love it, love it, love it. Gorgeous, um a few observations. Um, I knew I was lucky at the time in my childhood when my late Grandpa Harry used to take us for lunch, not every Sunday, but, you know, let's say every other Sunday. That was a treat.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And we were lucky to go to quite nice places either in the country or in Londonon. You know high gate and these places and and I knew at that time, but certainly hearing from you, um, that it wasn't until the age of 16 certainly underpins your humble beginnings, because you know a lot of people tour. I remember santiago lastron and tony kittis. You know I've heard it so many times where people come to London with nothing, a bag and not much more. But yeah, I mean it's ever so funny to hear at the age of 16 because I suppose the younger generation when they listen to that today couldn't possibly imagine when they have, know when they have delivery and god knows what. I mean I know we're not talking about home delivery, but you know that whole, that whole engagement with hospitality. It almost happens when you're born. So you know you see kids picking at yo sushi now at the age of god knows what um I mean, you see, you know actually what.

Speaker 2:

What was amazing was that you know these, this, you know. I mean, you know your food is brought out to you so you're not involved in the preparation and this incredible you know setting um, design and you know music and um, and this, this wonderful, this, this team, this fun. You know the waiters and the bartenders and they're all dressed as this in this incredible front. You know the waiters and the bartenders and they're all dressed as this in this incredible sort of, you know, beef eater. It was. It was really amazing and you know, and I quickly realized that the world which was about transporting yourself to a, you know, to a Hollywood musical or you know something quite different, was something I really enjoyed Growing up was. You know, my mom and my grandma gave me everything, but it was hard. It was pretty tough. You know, if we had fruit in the bowl, I knew things were okay and you know.

Speaker 2:

So, going into restaurants and working in, you know, restaurants and bars and hotels, that was, that was, you know, that was something which was a different world and it enabled me to escape to a world and I think that's one of the wonderful things it's like being going, you know, into theater or being an actor, or you know it's it's performance and it's you can make people happy. And if you can make people happy and you can, you know, and they leave happier than they arrived, you're doing a pretty good job. And you can't, you know, you can't replicate that in many industries. So it's something I love doing and actually, you know, it's interesting when I'm with friends and I'm going to friends and they have parties, or you know, I'm there always wanting to make sure I can help them look after their guests as well, and it's something it's just. You know, I'm not a great cook. I can make a decent cocktail, and you know, but I'm a great host.

Speaker 1:

You do beans on toast.

Speaker 2:

I do a lovely beans on toast.

Speaker 1:

I knew it. I knew it.

Speaker 2:

asset managers and general managers and F&B directors, and you know, and you know, if they care and they want to make a difference and they want to make things you know better, then I'm, you've got me, you know. And whether that's working in a budget hotel or working in one of the most prestigious luxury hotels in the world, I'm there. Right, that's really key.

Speaker 1:

We're going to come on to that and I'm just gonna fit a kind of round off on a humble piece, if I may, because, just thinking about it, when I look at, I mentioned San Diego, last romance with Tony kisses. But then, you know, when I think about Marcel Kahn he came here and he had nothing, you know, it feels to me as a common thread for a lot of great people. Um, that starting point, yeah, and, and I think you know, I think it's a great thing, I likewise, I, although I was more privileged in the sense of I had these sunday lunches. You know, I did go to a lovely school, I was not given anything yeah, um, and, and that's, I think, a great roadmap. But anyway, we'll close that moment in the podcast and and move on to and I and I think you've alluded to it lift pitch. What is it that you actually do, ah gosh.

Speaker 2:

I mean, making you know eating and drinking experiences is better generally and mainly in hotels, is what we do, and you know, that is my, my north star. If we can make the experience of going out to a hotel or going into a restaurant in a hotel, or a restaurant that just happens to be in a hotel or a bar, better than it is today, then you know, then we're on to a winner and that's our North Star. It's about delivering. For me, it's about delivering emotion per square foot, and that is something I spend a lot of time doing is in that people, you know, people talk about the food and the drink and they get obsessed with food and drink when actually it's the whole. It's just some of the parts are greater than the individual elements, and I think that's really key. So the emotional connection in any way could be the design. It could be the uniform, could be the glassware, it could plates, it could be the menu, it could be the collateral, it could be, you know, the music. All those elements go towards creating that bit of that bit of theater, that bit of drama. And that goes back to, you know, those shows and those, those musicals I would watch when I was a kid and it was never just about the tap dance routine, or it was, and it was never about the dialogue, it was the whole thing. It was the whole, you know, it's the whole storytelling piece.

Speaker 2:

And my job, um, is to help clients understand, get them comfortable about getting uncomfortable and help them take them on a journey and, with myself and my team, to deliver something you know which is they may not necessarily have known, that could exist. And I think that's what we do and we're very fortunate. We, you know we do this across five continents. You know which is amazing Spend a lot of time traveling and storytelling and taking, you know, our clients on this journey. But it's, it's making it better, making it making it more emotional, creating that sort of, you know, that experience which, which you know, indeed, can be transformational, it can be memorable, you know I I just read this morning about the ritz being number one restaurant and you know, in the um, in the national restaurant awards and um, and I think steph on chomka said in the telegraph his quote is saying it's the um, you know, it's a transformational experience, and he's right.

Speaker 2:

And you know, when you go to the ritz dining room, it's, you know, your entire world changes. You forget about all those troubles and the everyday boring things and your you know whatever and you are transported to another place. And restaurants are about restoration and they are about, you know, creating something which you know makes you feel happy. Um, and to have something like that, and it's lovely seeing the rich dining room acknowledged.

Speaker 2:

I remember I was there for my birthday recently and I remember talking to a lovely waiter who was looking after us and he absolutely would be carried out of that place in his coffin. You know he loved working there and for him it was about, you know, this was a way of life, this was his life. You know, every single service was a, you know, was a production, and it was every single service was something he will never forget. There was, you know, and the guests and their reactions to the food and to the ambience and to this amazing design, and you know that whole magical transportation.

Speaker 2:

And I think, if you can do a little bit of that, whether that's, you know, a budget hotel, or whether that's a branded property, or whether that's a cruise liner or, you know, or whether it's a cafe or, you know, a beautiful luxury boutique hotel. You know, that's what it's about. It's about creating something which is more than just food, more than just a drink. It's the emotional connection, it's the sum of the parts, it's storytelling at its very best, and I think that's what I spend a lot of time doing, and you know my team. We're very're very, very lucky and we get to work with some incredible projects, um, but we also get to work with some incredible people who really, really care and want to make a difference, and I think that's great, and so if you see a happy guest and happy you know, happy clients, then we're doing something really right I love, love your statement of getting clients comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if you've used that before you must have done but I think that is a bit of genius and that transcends so many industries and people and experiences. I think that's a real life lesson.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think you know part of our job is delivering what clients want, but sometimes you need to push them to a place which they didn't even know existed.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love this and I think it's you know.

Speaker 2:

I've got one client said to me, you know, a couple of years ago you have this amazing ability, robbie, to make people sort of open their minds and their wallets, and you know, that is an incredible thing and I, you know I am, this is my world. I'm very fortunate to do what I love, but it's all I know. And so, and for me, you know, if I'm going to have a coffee or have a pastry, you know, and it's not great coffee or it's not a great pastry, I feel like I've wasted my, my bunnage. You know that opportunity to have a great pastry and a great coffee. So, you know, and going out should be, you know, fun, it should be enjoyable and getting our clients to think, especially in hotels. This is not about providing a bed and a great shower. This is a this.

Speaker 2:

You have the most amazing opportunity to create an experience which is transformational and also so memorable, and you are literally giving people, um, you know that, that sort of, you know, life, life experiences which they will never forget, and I think it's it's really important that, when you think about you know, airbnb have just, you know, recently launched this sort of this new sort of experience um, part of their business where you can, you know if you're going to rome, rome, or going to Las Vegas or whatever, and you, you're, you know, you're, you're, you know you're taking an apartment or a room or whatever you can, you know they will sell you experiences and you can. You can have a chef from an amazing restaurant come to you know your private, you know cooking class with you, or you can go and you can sportsman, you know, be part of their world for a couple of hours. And when you think about it, you know hotels have that opportunity more than Airbnb does. They've got these incredible buildings. You know they've got these incredible people who literally wake up every day with that wonderful North Star and that they want to look after people. And they've got this incredible product.

Speaker 2:

And you know it's about making it so amazing and so emotional that actually, you know when they walk out and they feel so happy, that's our job done. It's not. You know, if I wanted to stay in a bedroom and have a good shower, I could go and stay in a budget hotel, but actually, if you want to do something more, you know it's about emotionally connecting. So that's what we spend a lot of time doing, and you know, and it's interesting because when you're working in different markets it's you know.

Speaker 2:

You know, I always think that you know, you know restaurants and hotels and like we're working in switzerland, um, we've got two or three clients in switzerland and switzerland's a little bit more traditional than France and Italy and even Germany. So you know, you have to sort of. You know, you can't assume everyone knows what you mean with emotional service or hospitality or everyone knows what you mean by casual luxury. So you have to take guests on a bit of a journey. You've got to take your clients on a bit of a journey. This afternoon I'm going a bit of a safari with a couple of clients from switzerland and I'm going to show them what relaxed, casual luxury looks like.

Speaker 1:

And you know, because if you show rather than tell, you can you know, you can you know more than often not get people on the journey and be part of the story, um, quicker so, um, going back to your getting comfortable with uncomfortable, it really has struck a chord with me because I'm going to give you a few examples of where it's striking a chord and then I'm going to throw it back to you just to give me some case studies. So I remember acting for Gerald Ronson on Heron Tower and this was when dining wasn't a thing in the city and this was when the city was all about feathers and secretaries and mainly drinking yeah on, you know, a boozy night with not very much food.

Speaker 1:

But Gerald had this vision of this restaurant in the sky and his vision was somewhere where, you know, well-heeled city folk would go for a Dover sole Very much in the vein of what he would want to do have a Dover sole and a you know possible glass of wine or whatever know and some condiments etc. Sounds great, uh. And of course that was never meant to be or it didn't end up being. And actually you mentioned about the people and it was all about shimon and winning the winning the day with with sushi samba. Of course that at first was not particularly comfortable and it was getting comfortable being uncomfortable, but it was all about the people.

Speaker 1:

Another example that comes to mind was when Santiago Lastra trumped up when we were marketing the old police station for the Portman estate and for them they wanted which is so often the case and all day, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner and everything in between, please ted uh experience. And of course, santiago lastras and cole is not about, uh, breakfast and brunch. We all know what it's about, uh, or hopefully everyone knows what it's about, and it was getting them comfortable with. Actually you've got that in daisy green opposite, which is wonderful. Uh, now's the time for something a little bit different and special.

Speaker 2:

So, um, yeah, I, I you've got me off on a whole train of thought now, but it's really interesting because when you're, you know, when you're, when we're dealing with, with super, um, you know luxury clients and um, and and it's, it's the world they live every single day and you know, and they want to create a hotel which you know, um, they feel that it's going to be full of their like-minded people like them. And then you, you know, you, you know, we then do our work and we start researching what the opportunity looks like commercially, critically and emotionally. You know what does that experience, you know what does that opportunity look like? And then we have to take them on a bit of a journey and then we need to show them you know what this ideal you know, profile of the guest could be. This, you know, almost like, becomes our muse. And then, you know, you make them understand and realize that actually it might not be a restaurant full of people just like them. It might need to be a restaurant profile like this. And then you need to show them and you need to take them on that journey. But you've got to, you know, you've got to back it up with trends and you know, and also you've got to show them benchmarks and references and you've got to push them a little bit, but they've got to get you, you know, but they've got to get you. You know, they've got to get comfortable. You know they've got to get comfortable about this journey and and I think that's my, you know, my biggest um sort of strength. If I can do anything, that's something I can do really well and tell a great story, but you know, it's then being able to get them. You know they trust you and they're brought into that trust. It's then getting them to open up.

Speaker 2:

And I remember when, when, um and it's not a hotel client, but I remember when, when, when shamal and and and kavi came to me and said we want to create the coolest indian brand in the world, and you know, and I, and I, and I was sort of thinking, wow, this is, you know, this is amazing. And I, you know, and then I went to bombay with them and we came back and we worked on what is now Dishoom and you know, and it was, it was amazing being able to tell another story about, you know, indian. You know, this whole experience of going to Dishoom, could you know, didn't have to be about this sort of Michelin star or this, you know, the going for an Indian, you know, you know going for. You know going for a curry, it could be something different and that you know, and I remember having conversations and talking about. You know, let's make this work at lunchtime because traditionally people don't go for an Indian at lunchtime, you know. And then let's talk about open kitchens and extraction, and then let's talk about wouldn't it be great to do breakfast so that we get lunch busy? And what is breakfast? And actually, you know bacon, you know bacon sandwich, that bacon on. You know what does that look and it was great.

Speaker 2:

When you've got a client who is willing to go on that journey with you, it's amazing and I, you know, we still work with um, with this room.

Speaker 2:

We're very fortunate, but it's, you know. And then when I show my hotel clients and I take them to Dishoom and I tell them on that journey and show them what has happened and how, you know that whole, you know creating that emotion per square. You are a small, independent group of hotels or whether you are a family-owned property. My job is to get them on that journey and get them to trust and get them to understand what the opportunity is and the team. We spend a lot of time in meetings, in presentations, and we're constantly having to show them how to add value, and tell that story and and give guests something which you know the minimum is what they want, but also think about something which they perhaps didn't know existed it's ironic that you talked about to shim because I happened to have taken or in fact they treated me in the end but a hotel client to Dishoom only last week because there was a discussion about breakfast oh, wow.

Speaker 1:

I can't go into too much detail, but I said I think you need to go and have a breakfast Dishoom with me, absolutely, and it was delightful. Um, I was gonna say um, have you seen? But I know you would have done.

Speaker 2:

Catch me if you can yes, yeah, because I relate to that story so well completely and you know it's and I, I, you know, the imposter syndrome is something you know.

Speaker 1:

Really I was gonna say I was more about you traveling around the globe and I could never catch you, even if I wanted to.

Speaker 2:

It's funny, that whole world of you know going into a. You know, I was in Shenzhen a couple of weeks ago and you know it's one of the youngest cities in China. It's only been around for about 18 years and there's 22 million people living in the city. And you know, we are told so much by the press and actually it's only when you get into the thick of it and you experience a city and you can quickly establish where they are on the circle of trends and you know what is, you know what is transformative, what is memorable, what is storytelling, you know, and it's really interesting. And I think, that idea of being able to go to different countries and go to different cities and I was in Brighton last week We've just taken on a wonderful client in Brighton and it's a very famous property, a very famous hotel. And you look at this, it's the grand. You look at this property and you think, okay, it's been around for over 100 years. And you're in this magnificent room. You think, okay, it's been, it's been around for over 100 years. You're in this magnificent room and you're thinking, gosh, how much fun people have had in this room and it's it's tapping into that sort of what. You know what, how can we make this relevant to today and tomorrow without forgetting about the past but also taking, you know, taking our clients on a bit of a journey and taking our guests on a bit of a journey? And taking our guests on a bit of a journey and how? You know how do we do that and I think you know I remember having the conversation with Shamil about breakfast, you know, and about you know.

Speaker 2:

It was something I said if we can just create the all day cafe and to do that, because I knew landlords love all day concepts, they love all day stories, because also, you know, they want to have that, you know, footfall and I was thinking, if we can get something, we create something so traditional but not traditional sort of, you know, something perfectly imperfect and something which was so dishewn but at the same time, quite London. We could, we could really, you know, we could really get something quite smart. And the bacon naan I remember having this conversation about bacon sandwiches and we were at Taj Hotel in Bombay and talking about breakfast is not really a big deal in, you know, in India and this part especially Bombay. So you know we had to create the myth and the magic and you have to create that story. And you know, and actually, when you go to the studio today, magic, you have to create that story.

Speaker 2:

And you know, and actually when you go to the stream today and you and you have that, it's it truly, that breakfast experience is pretty unique, it's pretty special, um, and you know we are, you know we have been able to, you know, transport you to, to bombay or a fictitious version or your own version of that bombay and what bombay could be like, and you make the experience your own. And you know that reference about Catch Me, if you Can, you know, wearing different personas, going to different cities and and being something be perhaps, you know, just creating that character is something which we, we know we do an awful lot of with our, with our projects and with our clients in fact guy of esher from maslow yeah, great guy, his father's amazing too uh, I don't know his father so well, but I know guy and we did a podcast and he mentioned about mortimer house and one more wreck.

Speaker 1:

Um, actually, the lasting comment that stuck with me that I'd never really appreciated before he touched upon it was your statement just now about perfect imperfections.

Speaker 2:

I'm not sure which way round it goes.

Speaker 1:

It's intertwined, isn't it Completely? And I you know, because he was talking about how you design the feeling, and he was talking about it that it shouldn't be perfect. And that is the perfection of making it imperfect. So again, I could think about that more and more, and you've brought that back to me.

Speaker 2:

Perfection is so boring but also it's so intimidating. And I think you know the idea of creating something which doesn't feel like it's contrived. It's like I read something the other day which someone sent me and it had been written by AI and I could tell straight away and I was thinking this is not reality. And I think this is interesting because you know, especially people coming into the industry today and you know, coming into hospitality, there are going to be really bad shifts, they're going to be really bad services, they're going to be really bad times, they're going to be bad guests and challenging guests.

Speaker 2:

You know and it's not, life is not perfect, and so we have to understand when we're creating these spaces, we have to think about how people feel in those spaces, not necessarily what they look like, and I think that you know people are comfortable with you know imperfection and you know it makes them feel fine.

Speaker 2:

It makes them feel cocooned and safe. If you feel safe and cocooned when you go into a restaurant or you go into a hotel, you will let your guards down and you will have fun and you will have great fun, and there are some great magicians out there who are amazing at doing that Great. You know hoteliers and restaurateurs, and I think it's about being able to create that perfect moment where anything could happen and it could be the most incredible night of your life. You're not too sure you could meet your future husband, you could meet your next wife, but you're not quite sure what's going to happen. If you create those spaces which are perfectly imperfect and they've got that emotion per square foot, and they deliver something which is so memorable and, you know, allows you to be be happy and be safe and open and pull down your guards, that's magic.

Speaker 1:

That really is give us a few moments, please, about some of your projects, because you've mentioned to shoom. Yeah, please tell me a few other hotel moments or hotel projects. I know it's like having babies. I'm not asking for favourites. I'm not asking for favourites.

Speaker 2:

I will give you a property. I'll talk about something we did in Manchester because it's my hometown. It's something I'm really proud of. But we were very fortunate to work with David Taylor, who's now the CEO of Law Group, but David was overseeing the principal collection of hotels and they acquired the old Clock House Hotel, which was this beast of a hotel, and we helped create this sort of wonderful property called the Kimpton Clock Tower and we had ten and a half thousand square feet of square, you know, of front of house, food and drink space.

Speaker 2:

And I was thinking no restaurant or bar is going to be able to deliver the, the emotion and the connection and the energy or bar is going to be able to deliver the emotion and the connection and the energy. And what we have to do is create how do we create something which brings tribes together, not just one tribe? And I remember going to meet the guys from Volta, who are these incredible DJs called the Unabombers and they do club nights in Manchester and they've got this incredible following. And I said, these guys can help us fill this space, they can help us deliver emotion per square foot, so they can help us tell a story through the lens of Manchester keep it really authentic and really really brilliant. And we created this wonderful place we call Refuge by Volta at the Kimpton and it it was incredible and part of it was about the the you know, the energy and the experience, but it was about the activation, it was about the culture, it was about the people working there and that was that was a really, truly amazing, you know amazing project. And then, more recently, um, we've just been very fortunate to work on the very first Waldorf Astoria in Japan, in Osaka, and Osaka is the kitchen of Japan, and you know Waldorf Astoria is one of the most historic luxury brands and you know, we were asked to help tell the story, tell a food and drink story in this property story, tell a food and drink story in this property.

Speaker 2:

And you know, working with a team that got an incredible GM, andrew, who's an amazing leader, and we've been very fortunate to work with him on a project in Dublin. And you know he said can you help me tell you know a couple of stories a great bar story and a great restaurant story. And you know, and and it was amazing how we were able to look at spaces which actually had already been designed and come up with this emotional connection. So it was creating this incredible, you know, almost like a speakeasy story for the bar called Canes and Tails, and it was more about a jazz age. It connected, it ticked the box of the world of Astoria and then it was about you know, how can we create this vibe, this fun, you know, a bit, a bit underground, um, and something which was very luxurious but accessible, um, and then we, we helped on the all-day brasserie and we, we created this beautiful fictitious world of this sort of through a French, a brasser, called Jolie, and it's almost like creating a character, and we sort of brought the character to life through a menu, through design, through collateral, through tableware, and we took our guests who were checking into this beautiful property into a bit of a journey. And, importantly, what we wanted to do as well was tell the world of Astoria's story but make it very relevant. There's lots of hotels you go to where you feel sometimes you can't go in there if you're not a guest of the hotel, and what we wanted to do is really break that barrier down and create something which was very relevant for Osaka and very relevant for people living and working in the area. And so the bar has to be accessible, it has to be fun, it has to be able to appeal to the after work crowd as well as that destination crowd, as well as that luxury guest, and the brasserie has to work in the same way as well. So it's like you know, those two properties are, you know, are very, very different.

Speaker 2:

And then when I think about, you know, we've just finished a property project just outside Glasgow called Mahall.

Speaker 2:

Mahall is this beautiful, quite, you know, quite dramatic gothic country house ownership.

Speaker 2:

And we went in there and we, and we sort of you know, we brought my hall back to, you know, to to its glory, and we, we wanted to create something which the people living in that part of you know scotland would really appreciate and love, not necessarily just for guests staying in the property. We wanted to be a, you know, story where people living in glasgow could escape to um, and I think you know that that's always the case, and whether it's a hotel in Zurich or whether it's one of the biggest hotels in Paris or whether it's a luxury hotel in Palm Beach, you know that's our job we need to tell stories and we need to emotionally connect and we need to be able to transport guests on a bit of a journey. And it's funny, I'm a bit of a frustrated hotelier and I'm always pushing and, pushing and pushing and people go. What has been your favorite project? What's been your? You know your most successful projects and I actually think that I've not done it yet.

Speaker 1:

I think it's Juro dreams of sushi.

Speaker 2:

I mean that's an incredible reference, but it is. It's how you know I always want to push more and more and more. I know we did this wonderful bar once at Corfitz's, at the Kimpton in Russell Square, and I wanted to. You know Barry Sternlich, who was this genius hotelier who created W, was the the owner, and David Taylor, again, you know, was heading up the group of hotels and we had this great leader as well, called Cody, and I said I want to create the ultimate beautiful sort of theatrical bar which feels like pays homage to the American cocktail bar. And we created this incredible room. It was two rooms linked up in this beautiful glitter ball which revolved and, you know, beautiful lighting. And we worked with Russell Sage on the design and incredible drinks and great drinking food and it was dramatic, it was glamorous and that bar felt like a vignette, felt like it was like a Hollywood musical and I think it's. You know.

Speaker 2:

So there's always projects, you know, working with Peninsula on Canton Blue, working with, you know, with Langham on the Wigmore, just around the corner, you know the Wigmore. I remember when Bob van der Hoed, who's the CEO now, came to me and said we've got this spa space, what should we do with it and said well, you know, let's be better than all bar one and let's create something which you know is going to be accessible, going to be fun, going to be interesting, going to be public, going to be very community, you know, very community-led. So let's do it like a posh boozer, like a posh pub. And it was really great and obviously you know it wasn't going to be that, it wasn't going to be that sort of. You know it has to be something dramatic and fun and working with Marcia Brunewski brought that dramatic, that drama and that spectacle. But actually make it accessible. You know doing great beer on tap and doing wine on tap and doing a great you know fun menu.

Speaker 2:

Working with, you know, with the team there, Michelle Rue and Chris, and you know the cheese toasty. You know creating something so simple and so accessible, but something you know so Moorish, and create this whole world, this whole tavern story, the Wigmore you know his own coat of arms and you know creating something which was completely not unexpected in a luxury hotel, and I remember it was about creating something which was so simple and simple. Things are so difficult to do. You know it's really hard and when I remember the very first week of opening. It was so, you know, getting the when when guests walked in, it was getting the team to react to read and to to look after the guests like they would in a local, friendly pub, rather than walking into a five-star luxury. You know, f&b outlet I hate the word outlet, but you know it's getting to think in that way, um, but you know those have been some great projects and we're working with langham again and we're working with, you know, st regis, we're working with the small groups and four seasons and you know, you know jumeirah, and these are all great, great, great brands to work with.

Speaker 2:

Um. But actually, if we can make a bit of a difference and take them on that bit of journey and get them more comfortable about, you know, getting uncomfortable, then brilliant. But it's, you know, it's every inquiry we have, you know, it's. You know we sit down with our clients and you know and really understand what they want and listen to them and then we think, OK, is there an opportunity to take them somewhere, somewhere greater and somewhere richer and deeper? Um, and if there is, then it's an, it's an amazing, amazing journey, um, and that's fun right, I'm fine, it's gonna be fun.

Speaker 1:

I'm, um, I'm ever so happy you pulled out your nuggets, because that's what I was looking for. Um, I would ask you because I'm a bit conscious of time, but I wanted to just say but if you are going back to a soccer, please my be hidden in your suitcase. I'm going actually. Yeah, good, please tell me the dates and, like I say, I will crawl up in a ball in your suitcase to go to Waldorf Astoria. What a trip. But I need to wrap up because I'm conscious of time and I think you've covered it in spades. What a trip, but I need to wrap up because I'm conscious of time and I think you've covered it in spades. But again, if you can try and give me a soundbite of what hospitality means to you, that would be my closing question.

Speaker 2:

It's making them feel, making guests feel happier than when they arrived and, you know, giving them something which emotionally resonates. They're not quite sure what's happened to them, but when they walk out and the next day they talk to their friends and they they talk about where they've been and what they had and how they felt. Um, for me, that is hospitality, and I think, you know, creating a place where a team really wants to be part of that is, you know, part of that as well. So you know that culture piece is so important. And, finally, and creating a place where people love working and they love showing up and giving their 100% and you know, really rocking it, and you know that to me is hospitality. If you can get that combined with a great product, a great storytelling, great design, great tableware, you know, great music, great wardrobe, then you're on to a win of a winner and because for that moment in time, you want to transport people to a place they didn't even know exist and tell a story which makes them feel good, really important really important, robbie.

Speaker 1:

It's been an absolute hoot. I've really enjoyed it. I'm really happy that I've waited so long for this moment, because it's all about, for me, quality, not quantity, and I'm sorry for my listeners if I've not done more recently, but there are more exciting ones to come. But Robbie loved it. Thank you so much and I hope everybody's had as much fun as we've had listening and keep on doing these podcasts. I'm going to do my best, thank you. Thank you, robbie.