Raising the Flipping Bar with Derek Marlin

Do You Want to be a Billionaire in Real Estate with Gavin Ekstrom (Part 2)

• Derek Marlin • Season 3 • Episode 28

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In this week's episode, we continue to dive into an intriguing story with expert Gavin Ekstrom. He shares the importance of ethics and integrity in this business.

Tune in to hear these inspirational stories and actionable tips around property investing, development, and more. It's time to elevate your game!

In this episode, you will be able to:
1. Maximize your real estate investment strategies for long-term success.
2. Overcome common challenges in property flipping like a pro.
3. Master essential skills for real estate agents to stand out in the market.
4. Unlock the importance of coaching for entrepreneurs in the real estate industry.
5. Leverage powerful sales techniques for real estate success.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:00 - Losing Real Estate License
00:04:46 - Property Flipping and Investments
00:08:08 - Building a Successful Team
00:10:19 - Impact of Real Estate Investing
00:10:36 - Impact of Personal Relationships
00:11:00 - Building a Cohesive Team 
00:13:30 - Performance and Consistency
00:20:47 - Avoiding Wing-It Mentality
00:21:57 - The Importance of Coaching and Support Systems
00:22:32 - Impact Experience in Austin, Texas
00:23:09 - The Power of Coaching and Networking
00:24:49 - The Value of Sales and Balance 

What lessons from this episode resonated most? I welcome your insights in the comments! And if you're hungry for coaching to drive your entrepreneurial growth, join Gavin and his team at IMPACT!

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The recent NAR settlement is reshaping the landscape for real estate agents!

With changes in how commissions can be negotiated, it’s more important than ever to align with a brokerage that supports your growth and adapts to industry shifts.

Why ELEVATION? We're a company that thrives on innovation and transparency. We understand the market’s new demands and are prepared to help you navigate these changes successfully.

With ELEVATION, you’re not just surviving the changes...you’re thriving in them!

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References:

Connect with Gavin Ekstrom:

https://www.instagram.com/gavinw5280/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gavinekstrom/
https://crosscountrymortgage.com/Team-Gavin/Gavin-Ekstrom/

#RealEstateInvesting #MortgageIndustry #Consistency #Mindset #Coaching #DerekMarlin #RealEstatePodcast #Billionaire #EarninRealEstate #PassiveIncome #RealEstateJourney

Welcome back to another episode of Raising the Flipping Bar. We've actually got Gavin for part two. And what I'm really excited to dive into is he's got this great cliffhanger that he just left us with. So Gavin, okay. Tell us about how you lost your license in this crazy, I'm going to call it pre flipping. So like, give us some context and take us down this tunnel. Cause I'm super fascinated. Welcome to raising the flipping bar, the go to podcast for aspiring and seasoned real estate investors. I'm your host, Derek Marlin, and I'm the CEO of Elevation. We're a real estate investment company based right here in Denver, Colorado. We'll dive into smart investment strategies, market insights, and essential tips for scaling your real estate ventures. Whether you're making your first investment or your hundredth investment, this podcast is your blueprint for success in the ever evolving world of real estate investing. Get ready to elevate your real estate game and begin your journey with me. So I was working with a gentleman at the time that was not a real estate agent, right? He was an investor. There's nothing wrong with being a property investor. So he was buying and selling real estate that he may or may not have owned, but it was articulated clearly in the contract. So both parties knew. And so there were times too, where if we didn't, if we didn't get a buyer, we would cancel this contract, right? Which was totally fine, but we already knew, okay, if we bought it at this price, what we could sell it for with minimal cosmetic work. And so that's what we were doing. And so, We had a situation where, this investor did me dirty. He was working with multiple lenders. And this is one of the reasons why I tell lenders when they're working with investors, like make sure the investor understands like the rules of the game. Right. And so long story short is this investor, had a transaction that didn't go well with another lender. And I'd already done that. Some transactions with them. We knew how to do it. Our underwriters understood it and it was good. This was back in 2000. And so he brought the transaction to me. Now, remember back in 2000, we would just fax the documents over. There was no like reps and warrants. Like we were just running, running and gunning, running and gunning. Right. And so he brought the whole file over to me and he's like, Hey, this is why it was turned down from the other lender. And when I looked it over, I'm like, I don't see any issues like this is a doable deal. Now that can happen even today where other, not all lenders are created equal. I take, I take turn downs all the time from builders, from real estate agents, all the time. What my learning experience was back then is I took the physical file from the investor. Yeah. And then I submitted that physical file into underwriting. Okay. We got it approved. And we closed it five years later, uh, as he's still flipping property, the, I think it's, I think it's called the DRE in Utah. The board of realtors, the Denver board of real, or the Salt Lake board of realtors, like Dora here. Yeah. Anyway, came knocking on my door five years later, five years later, I'm about, let's see, what am I? 27, 28. I'm kind of arrogant at the time I've handled, I've humbled a lot. So anyways, they come knocking at my door and I'm like, well, I did nothing wrong. I approve the, we approve the file. Here's the lender, da da da da, dah. And she goes, yeah, well, it was riddled with fraud. There was fraud everywhere in the loan. I said, well prove it. Yeah. Well, so what he had done is he had used his bank statements. Oh, taken the name, changed the name, okay. To get the financing done, because he didn't qualify the other. Was he keeping it or were you guys, was he selling it on the wagon? He selling, yeah, selling it. So he had to sell it. Fix. So. Not licensed. They were after his ass and then they wanted to see who was involved. And so there was a few, I was the biggest name of the few that lost their license. And so, part of the reason why I moved here was in 2004. I was like, I'm just done with that game. Plus I wanted to get custody of my daughter, Sicily. And I had approved to, community that was for mom's rights. Dad's didn't have rights. I had to prove to them that I was the more fit long story short is after I got full custody of my daughter. Then I went back and fought to get my license back in Utah. And so I have the right to get it back. I just haven't done the courses to do it, but it was the best thing in the settlement, it says we can, Gavin agrees not to come back for any recourse from that, from the monies or credibility loss back then. So I talk about it when I talk about it, I talk about it with agents and I talk about it with lenders, your license is worth millions. I've made millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars in this industry. Yep. And I'm still gonna make that. And so I talk about that because don't be dumb. Yes. You know what I mean? And I didn't know, well, I didn't know what I was doing right. In the sense of what was in the file. I just, back then it was a lot, it was a wild, wild west. True. Now, I don't take anything from a realtor other than contracts. That's it. Right. And, and a coffee date. But, but, uh, no. But that's it. And so I teach on that because I let me be the mistake. Right. And so, long story short, I continued to flip properties the right way after learning that I didn't do that way. I'd buy it and then resell it. There was a community. I think it's called three fountains here on Oneida, in Colorado. When we moved out here, we had, I think five or six of them going at once. And then 2008 happened. So we lost a lot. I didn't, I didn't have to file bankruptcy. I didn't give any of the properties back. at the time, it was like 110, 000 profit to 50 to 40 to Just get the property sold. And so we dealt with that. I haven't bought any, I haven't flipped anything since probably because a little bit of fear. But my favorite, you know, I have a few rentals and my favorite one I like to talk about is the one that I've never seen. A rental Gavin has never seen. Yeah. I bought it from a builder and I closed on it. I forgot to tell my wife. We were buying it. That was another topic. I can never buy. Yeah. So I'm like, babe, meet me at the title company on the stage. She's like, what are we doing? I said, we're buying a rental property. And she made me wait. She's like, we're not buying it today until we talk. So, so anyway, so, but we've never seen it and it's always been rented. And I bought it for about, two 40. It's worth about five, 10. What year did you buy it? Right before COVID. So 19. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. So you got that perfect run up. Yeah. Love it. Love it. And it's, and I've never seen it. Like literally when I was sitting and doing some stuff with the builder, they were telling me how they're going from granite to, for Micah countertops. And I'm sitting there, sitting there and I'm like, wait, Did that, did that, does that one that I bought, does it have granite or does it have Formica? So I'm calling Alyssa. I'm like, Hey, look at the appraisal. Do I have granite or Formica countertops? Right. Right. She's like, they're granite. I'm like, okay, that's probably the most I've seen of it. And, it's been a phenomenal, phenomenal investment. I think that's what people have to remember when they're buying real estate, it's an investment, whether it be their primary. It's still an investment. And so if you're going to go down the road of being an investor, you don't need to love the property you're buying. What you need to love is the profits. Yeah. What's the cap rate fall in love with the numbers. Don't fall in love with the fit and the finish and the design location matters. Make sure it's not in a gang infested area, but, but unless you can still gang members, there are other properties. Yeah. So. I still believe in it. I probably, I was talking to, our financial guy who, you know, a lot of our money's in the stock market. And so when I talk about real estate, he's like, well, you have to water it and you have to take care of it. And I'm like, well, my property up the street, I've talked to less than I've talked to you. And it's still turning a profit. So, um, so I think you gotta, you gotta diversify, but, I love what you're doing. It's absolutely amazing. And the cool thing about what you're doing, especially with this space here is I just look at it like you're beautifying this area. Yeah. It needed a little love. Yeah. Yeah. A little love. No, thank you. I appreciate that. I kind of want to talk a little bit about, cause you've got this great personal development background. You've you're essentially self taught. I mean, you essentially created your own. Degree and your own MBA and your own PhD. I mean, to me, don't worry about going back to school. You just need to worry about the honorary doctorate at some point. Somebody has got to roll in with a PhD and then you're good. You got everything. But I want to talk about leading teams. I want to talk about kind of working through adversity. You've got this cool project you're doing with impact. Maybe just give our audience a little bit of background and really for my edification of like, How, what's your number one key to success for building a successful team? And then we can kind of talk about round this episode out about more personal development stuff. So building a successful team and building a successful region, it's having an avatar. Okay, and so what I mean by having an avatar is what is the perfect person look like? That you want to do life with, because let's face it, I do a lot of life with my team, right? And so if I don't want to be around them, I'm not going to hire them, right? And so my avatar, first off, I have a core value. It's called legit loyalty, energetic, growth minded, impactful team player. I want people that are loyal to their current company, because if they're loyal to their current company, I'm going to do everything that I tell them I'm going to do. They'll be loyal to me. I'm like, listen, I have a lot of issues that come my way. My personality, my demeanor is the same. I play with a lot of high energy, no matter what I have good days and I have great days. Right now there's some good days where I'm cussing or frustrated and very few people see it. Alyssa and my wife, but, but for the most part is let's play. We woke up today. Let's play big. You know what I mean? Let's go get whatever it is we want. We can have. It's a simple choice. Go get it. And then the G is for growth is the position you're in today is not the position you're going to be in forever. If you give me the opportunity to grow with you and then the I is for impact. The job that we do impacts the lives that we get to work with, but more importantly, those that we get to lend to I did it. I'll tell you a quick off story. I was doing, I got a phone call. This was back when I was in Utah. This gentleman who was in foreclosure. And he said, Hey, can you help me out? I said, yeah, let me come meet you. Right. This was back in probably, I want to say 96. Let me come meet you. I'll sit down with you. Let's look at it. And there's, there's going to be a solution. So, his name is Guillermo. We fixed his problem. We, kept his house. We got him financed. We got him a, we got him a new mortgage and we saved his house. When I met, when I went and met with Guillermo, his D or his granddaughter was sitting there, her name was Sophia. Long story short, after we got him up and running, he said, I want to learn about investing in real estate. I said, let's go. I went over and met them. Guess who was still at the table? Little Sophie. So she's at the table. Guillermo and I are talking. We discuss how we're going to strategize and get his first investment property. He gets his first investment property. Mind you, this gentleman worked at us West and that was like a, phone company. Yeah. And he made like about probably 14 an hour. Did not make a lot. His wife made about the same, right? But then we started talking about residual and investment income. So he makes one. He wants another year later, we get another, we get another, we get up to, to four plus his primary. So he's got five residents. Great. In the meantime, I move out to Colorado. I get a call from his wife, Guillermo passed away. He wants you to be his pallbearer at his funeral. Talk about impact. So when I think about the eye impact, I think about Guillermo. You want to know what happened with the daughter? She's a real estate agent in Utah. So what you say matters and people are watching what you're doing. Even if they're not, you don't think they're listening. They're paying attention. Right. And then the T is for team in, in a legit, anything worth creating takes another person. I don't want to go on this journey alone. I want you to come with me. It's lonely at the top. If you don't bring people with you. And then I look at your social, does your social move me towards you or move me away from you? And are you purchased focused? Right. Cause you see some things in social and you're like, Oh, Okay. We all like, listen, I like to have a lot of fun. I have a lot of fun. You guys don't see all of it. You see a little bit of it. You don't see all of it. I think sometimes too, I should film when I get really frustrated with my kids. It's still a good day, but I'm frustrated with my kids. I'm like, maybe I should film this so you, so other parents can be like, okay, I'm not that too. That's my avatar. so when building a team and having the cohesiveness, right, I have over 200, employees here in inside Colorado, Arizona and Utah, I have 27 branches. How do I handle it all? I hire right. I hire as close to, to that avatar is possible every single time. It makes my life easy and I don't waver from it. So when your question was, is how do you do that? It's like, you have to have the cohesiveness. And then here's the other thing. I'm a visionary. Your vision has to be crystal clear of where you want to go. And then once you develop the vision. You got to get the hell out of the way and let them run with it because they'll do better running with it than you consistently orchestrating it. And what I love that, what you just said is to me, that is so key. We run our business based on the book traction. I don't know if you've heard about that. Yeah. So to your, yeah, you're the perfect avatar of the visionary, but you have to have those integrators, whether it's a high level COO type of a person, or maybe with, you know, being cross country, being, Quote unquote, corporate, another SVP, but then you have to have your next level of leaders and layer of leaders. So no, that's key. I just don't think people get that. And I think almost the social media culture doesn't personify that. It's like, yeah, there's just this one rock star and he or she's driving their Lambo and they're doing this. It's like, no, you have to have a team or else you're going to burn out. You're not gonna be that successful. It's not going to work at least long term in my opinion. I have a phenomenal assistant in Alyssa. She's not perfect. Right. But she's damn good. And she knows me. So when I voice text, don't voice text. Cause it never makes any sense. She can articulate what I'm talking about. Right? So people will go, he voice texts me. What does this mean? And she'll say, Oh, he means this, this and this. Yeah. Okay. But literally you got to have the people around you too, that understand the vision, but want you to win. Yeah. They want me to win. They want to, they want to share the win with me, but they want me to win. That's awesome. And so that, that makes it fun. And so that's, that's like, I think that's the key to it. When I look at success, like that's the key. And here's the thing I tell my team and some people may like this and some people will not. I'm either going to retire you or I'm going to fire you. Yeah. Choice is yours. I like that. That's it. I'm gonna work my ass off. Not just for me, but for you too. No, we did a little, we did a little thing, um, for every referral, every transaction we close, it feeds 55 people. Cool. Okay. So that's why a referral, that's why an agent relationship, the business coming in isn't just for me, it's 55 people. Alyssa has three kids and has other people that are dependent upon her income. Yep. That makes sense. And so we did that and I'm like, that's the power of a transaction. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. So we're going to take a quick break and tell you about the next elevation Academy. If you're looking to dive deep into real estate investing, this is definitely the event for you. Our Academy features over a hundred step process to help you navigate every single thing from market analysis all the way down to every aspect of project management. So this is tailored for both beginners and seasoned investors. And our one day intensive training will equip you with the strategies and insights needed to elevate your real estate investing game. Spots are definitely limited. So click on the link below in the show notes to sign up and transform your approach to real estate investment. Okay. Let's get back to the episode. Give me one more thing. And I want to be conscientious of your time because you're off to speak at a really fun event here coming up. But maybe since you do deal with so many high level real estate agents and professionals, so whether it's an investor focus agent, kind of like our team or more of a traditional agent, When you're doing deals with people, you're right. You and your team only have so much time. So give me something that you see with your, a player agents and your partners that you're working with and referring business when you're like, you know what? That man or woman or whoever has their shit together. What's that agent's number one quality. We're like, no wonder that person's got a deal coming to me every single month or whatever else. Well, there's a few things. So first off time management, right? They understand the value of their time. The value of their time. Isn't calling saying, did you get, did you get the tax returns? Right. That's a bad lender anyway, because if an agent's calling me for that, we're not doing our job. Right. You always got to think about anticipatory service, right? Being ahead of what the actual situation is and what's going to happen next. So number one, I think they're very structured with their time. Number two is they're scripted in their listing presentation, their buyer's presentation, their phone calls that they make. They're extremely scripted. They're very robotic in what they say, how they say it. If they, if we watched them go on a listing presentation, they say the same thing every single time. There's no winging it. I think they see themselves as performers. And I taught a class about this. I think we're all performers. As a matter of fact, if you think about it, we're all performer and your W2 or 1099 tells you the level of performer you are. You want to make more money, become a better performer. The thing about this, the average actor, right? Coming into the industry, it's like theater and in a screen 59, 100 a year. Okay. Average actor. Can you make that in real estate, whether you're flipping, whether you're selling, whatever it is, right? Yeah. Okay, cool. The average, football players, NFL is about to start 795, 000. Can you make that in real estate? Yes. Yes, you can. There's people that are doing it. You can make it by flipping. You can make it by selling. Right. I've got an individual that's speaking down at this event we're doing here down the street. She made 1. 2 million last year selling real estate. Yeah. Yeah. Not investing, but selling. No, she may have invested real estate, but sure. And then you think about the MBA, the average 1. 1 million. Can you make that in real estate? And the answer is yes. You chose real estate. I chose, chose mortgage. Does that make sense? Yeah. So we're performers. Yep. And if we treat it that way, I think that they are very time management scripted, right? And they put themselves in the room. Yeah. They're not thinking about the room. They're not thinking, Ooh, what it would be like. They're diving in, they're taking action, not, not worried about what the results are going to be, but they're putting themselves in the room. All of that leads to consistency. Consistency creates credibility. Credibility creates commissions. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and there's a few things. So first off, time management. Right? Yeah. They understand the value of their time. The value of their time isn't calling and saying, did you get, did you get the tax returns? Right? That's a bad lender anyway, because if an agent calls me for that, we're not doing a job. You always got to think about service, right? Being ahead of what the actual situation is. Yeah. And what's going to happen next. So number one, I think they're very structured. Number two is their script. Yeah. In their listing presentation, their writer's presentation, their phone calls that they make. They're extremely scripted. Like a system. Very robust. Yeah. And how do they say it? Go on a listing presentation, and they say the same thing every single time. There's no winging it. Yeah. They're, they're, I think they see themselves as programmers. Oh, I like that. Yeah. Right? And I, I taught a class about this. I think we're all programmers. As a matter of fact, if you think about it. We're all performer and your W two or nine tells you the level of performer. You are, do you want to make more money? The thing about this, the average actor and coming into the industry, thought Peter and screen 59, 000. Okay. Average. Yeah. Can you make that in monthly, whether you're flipping, whether you're selling, whatever it is, right. Yeah. Not hard. Yep. The average, uh, football players and it feels about to start. 795, 000. Can you make that? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. You can. There's people that are doing it. You can make it by cooking. You can make it by selling. Right. I've got, I've got an individual that's speaking down at this, uh, event we're doing here on the street. She made 1. 2 million a year selling real estate. Yeah. Not investing, but selling. No, she may have invested in real estate. Sure. Hopefully. And then you think about the NBA. Yeah. We're 1. 1 million. Can you make that? And if we treat it that way, I think that they all are very, I managed scripted, right. And they put themselves in the room. They're not thinking about the room. They're not thinking, Ooh, what it would be like they're diving in there taking action, not, not worried about what the results are going to be, but they're putting themselves in the room. All of that consistency, consistency, creates credibility, credibility, creates commissions. Yeah. Well, what I love that you said about that is I think the tough thing is we have a saying at elevation and it's actually don't sell on charisma because you can't rinse and repeat charisma. You can't have that system that you just talked about and you can't improve it or figure out where's the roadblock or where's the bottleneck or whatever else. I think it's tough because in our industry, you're right. People, whether they're charismatic or they, have that acting term, like you've talked about that performance term. You can't just roll in hot to a listing presentation or to meet with a seller or be an investor and like, great. You know, it just, it seems use car salesmen, and I don't love that, but you have to have that system. Talent's only going to get you so far. The late, great Kobe Bryant said this, and I love this quote. I practice in the gym when it is empty, so I can perform in the arena when it's full. Perfectly said. Right. And the problem about our industry, both lending and real estate, they wing it. Yeah. Way too much. And literally you can make a million dollars and wing it. Wouldn't you want to make a million dollars year after year after year? Would you want to close a transaction month after month, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, quit winging it, become more scripted. And you'll win more frequently. Yeah. That's perfect. Okay. So as we wind down, I want to give you a second to think about maybe just one more thing you want to leave the audience with. We've kind of like covered so much. We've done so much. We're in two freaking episodes, which is exciting. But before we get to your parting thoughts, where can people find out more information about you? Give them ways to connect with you. I want to make sure our folks can engage. Well, first off, always on Instagram at Gavin Ekstrom, uh, E K S T R O M. You'll find me there. And then I have an event coming up in September 19th and 20th in Austin, Texas. We did our first event here in Denver, Colorado. Now we're taking the show on the road in Austin, Texas. I wouldn't be where I am today without mentors and coaches in my life. I still have mentors and coaches in my life. I still have a trainer that I work with every day. Why? Because I need those, I need those bumpers. I have a financial guy. I have a therapist. I have a spiritual guy. I have all of the things to keep me in line. And I have a wife that is right there too. But the thing is, is I wouldn't be where I'm at without coaching. I'm still at 50 years old being coached. So I wouldn't be here where I want. I wouldn't have the things that I have. I wouldn't have the relationships with my kid if I did my kids and my wife, if I didn't have a coach. So we have a coaching program called impact. And in Austin, Texas on the 19th and 20th, we're having our impact experience where we'll have Jesse Itzler. We'll have Ben Newman. We'll have some surprise guests there as well. JJ Mazzo, Haley Garcia, Josh Sigmund and myself. And then we have some partner coaches that will be coaching there. It's a sales organization. It's not just for real estate agents and mortgage lenders. It's for anybody, entrepreneur, property, flipping business, insurance business. We have a guy that's, uh, owns a window company. He's sending us the entire C suite. It's for entrepreneurs that want to get in the room with like minded people to go do great things together. And so as we're coaching, as we're mentoring through this, It's through this event. The idea too is to build a great networking group. So now you have your third party vendors in other states or the relationships in other states. And here's, I'll tell you, coaching works for three reasons. Number one is accountability. We all know that, right? Number two is competition. It's fun to compete. But the most important thing about coaching is the camaraderie. It's a brother and sisterhood like no other, no different than that brother and sisterhood that you tend to learn in college. So it's the same, same, so we're super excited about it. We'd love to see you there. We'd love to see your audience there. Impact your life. com is the website. They can take a look at it and see what it's all about. And we'd be honored to have any one of your members go there. As a matter of fact, I'll set up a impact 10. I M P A C T the number 10. We'll give them 10 percent off their ticket price. Cool. so much. We will definitely, we'll put that in the show notes. We'll make sure and put that in front of our community. Cause that's what I love is sales is so important. And it's funny because this is dating me obviously, but when I was in school, you only had the option to do a marketing degree and accounting degree, a finance degree or management degree. Right. But you have to sell shit like whether it was, I joke where I used to run long, long ago, back in the day, used to run GNC stores. And I joked that I bought my wife's wedding ring, one nutritional product at a time because we made commissions. Like if you're good at selling stuff, it doesn't matter what you're doing. So whether my kids are out selling babysitting services or lawn mowing services or whatever else you're right, sales is so key. And that's something that It can be made more efficient with AI and there's great technology behind it, but sitting in our world in grandma and grandpa's living room and learning about their problems and diagnosing and troubleshooting it. That's something that will never, never be replaced. So I would say you guys, my community definitely check out Gavin's community as well. That sales component is so important. So yeah, we'll get them hooked up. We all deal with the same thing, lead acquisition, lead conversion and the people part, right? So if we can fix that, and then we can dive into the money aspect, creating wealth, the spiritual aspect of it, and then also just having it. You know, we talk about balance. I'm, as I said, I'm unbalanced. Most people should be balanced, not me. But we talk about how do we, how do we feel that balance? How do we make that happen? Because the worst thing is, so I asked my owner the other day, he's a billionaire, right? And so I said, Hey, what's the difference between a billionaire and a millionaire? And I wanted this like mindset thing, leverage. He said, it's leverage, right? And then he sent me a message after this, he sent me this text just so you know, money doesn't buy you happiness. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I reached out to him like, you okay, buddy? He's like, yeah, but I want you to remember when you're speaking about that, it's not all about money. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I think that's so good. And I think we're going to maybe kind of part on that one, which is everybody rewind that, listen to that. A billionaire is talking a bit about the difference between himself and a millionaire or herself and a millionaire. And it's about leverage. I don't think that could be any better said. So Gavin, I hope you'll come back. I would love to have you as another guest. Thank you for being here and we'll catch you on the flip side. Appreciate you. Thanks. Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of raising the flipping bar. If you found value in our insights and stories, let's keep the conversation going, connect with me on social media, and be sure to share this episode with friends or colleagues who might benefit your feedback and reviews, help us grow and reach more listeners like you. So please, if you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review. Thanks again to the elevation Academy for sponsoring today's show. If you're interested in learning more, click the link in the show notes below. And remember every property. Tells a story. Every deal brings a lesson. Keep reaching for those goals and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey everybody. Thank you so much for listening and watching raising a flipping bar. Just a basic overall disclaimer is that a, this is not legal advice. B, this is not tax advice. See, this is not financial advice. I hope you get the gist, but I'm obviously not a lawyer, not a CPA. Hell I'm not even a real estate agent actually, but in general, we hope you get a ton of value out of this, but there is a bit of a disclaimer. Please consult a professional if you have any questions whatsoever. Thanks for tuning in.