How Institutional Investors Move Real Estate Markets with Jake Rome

Welcome back to Raising the Flipping Bar! In this episode, I sat down with Jake Rome, an accomplished real estate investor, technology expert, and co-founder of Backflip, to uncover how institutional investors shape the real estate market. Jake’s extensive experience with family offices, institutional capital, and value-add real estate investment offers invaluable insights into how big money moves markets and how that affects you, whether you're a solo investor or scaling your real estate portfolio.

In this episode, you’ll learn 6 key lessons:

1. The Influence of Institutional Investors on Real Estate Markets: Discover how even small shifts in institutional capital allocations can dramatically impact local real estate markets.
2. Understanding the Family Office Model: Jake breaks down the role of family offices, why they take more risks, and how their unique structure impacts real estate deals.
3. Why Independent Investors Should Care About Wall Street: Learn why keeping an eye on Wall Street’s moves is crucial for understanding market trends and making smarter investment decisions.
4. The Institutionalization of Single-Family Home Flipping: Jake discusses how institutional capital is changing the game for fix-and-flip investors, and why now is the perfect time to be involved.
5. Jake’s Real Estate Investment Journey: From working with a German family office to co-founding Backflip, Jake shares pivotal moments in his career that shaped his investment philosophy.
6. The Power of Technology in Real Estate Investment: Hear how tools like Backflip’s mobile app are helping investors access critical data and streamline decision-making for more successful investments.

Jake’s journey is a masterclass in blending institutional capital with real estate technology, and this episode is packed with actionable insights that will elevate your real estate investing game.

If you’re ready to take your real estate investing to the next level, make sure to subscribe and leave a review. 

References:

Connect with Jake Rome:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakerome/

https://backflip.app.link/Elevation

Our Podcast Sponsor - Backflip https://backflip.com/

Join Backflip and be ready for your next fix and flip! 

Connect with Derek Marlin and ELEVATION!

Derek on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/derekmarlin

ELEVATION’s website: https://elevationinvest.com/

ELEVATION on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/elevationinvestmentproperties

ELEVATION on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elevationinvest/

ELEVATION on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elevationinvestmentproperties

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Transcript

0:00

Welcome to Raising the Flipping Bar, the go to podcast for aspiring and seasoned real estate investors. I'm your host, Derek Marlin, and I'm the CEO of Elevation. We're a real estate investment company based right here in Denver, Colorado. We'll dive into smart investment strategies, market insights, and essential tips for scaling your real estate ventures. Whether you're making your first investment or your hundredth investment, this podcast is your blueprint for success in the ever evolving world of real estate investing. Get ready to elevate your real estate game and begin your journey with me. everybody. Welcome back to another episode of raising the flipping bar. I'm your host, Derek Marlin. And we've got a great guest today. We've got somebody who's an experienced investor, their technology expert, and they're a co founder of an amazing company. We're also going to talk about the lending landscape. So I know a lot of our students and clients say, well, where the hell do I get the money from? This episode is going to help you with all those questions. We're also going to get some Colorado perspective, but then national perspective because their company is in a ton of markets across the country. So welcome Mr. Jake Rome from Backflip. Thanks. Really happy to be here. Appreciate you, having me in and the partnership so far. It's been amazing awesome. Cool. Thanks for being here. So what I always like to do to kick it off a little differently is I would love for you to tell the audience maybe a fun fact or something that's just doesn't have to be outside the box per se, but it doesn't have to be related. Like just some fun fact about you. So this may be surprising or not. I've always been an entrepreneur. My earliest memories are playing in the woods behind my house, extracting all the rocks, polishing them in the rock tumbler, selling them to the neighborhood kids and then building forts same kids. I've been in the real estate game one way or another for a while. Those folks, my brother included are now like. Praying victim, but I think there's a statute of limitations and That's really funny because that takes me back to my childhood. So I'm originally from New Jersey and we back to open space and we would do the exact same thing. We would just play. I mean, it sounds old school, but my parents would be like, get out of the house, go play. And we would go play in the woods. Many times we would get in trouble. And sometimes I'd actually have to call my dad and my dad actually worked. On literally on wall street and on a trading desk and we would call and there would be insanity in the background. And I remember him saying like, do you think I have time for this? You better run and hide. And when I get home, we're going to deal with it. And we would run and hide and we would play in the woods and you would see his car pull in and we're like, Oh, we're in trouble. And we would parade out, get in trouble. But the woods were our sanctuary too. So forts, dude, I'm down for it. special place special place. Yeah, that's awesome. cool. So let's jump into the more of the real estate stuff. After, almost you're coming up on 15 years of investment and real estate investing experience, instead of just saying, Hey, tell me your background. Maybe give us a couple of milestones of your professional journey until we start talking about what you're doing today with backflip. Yeah. Quickly. The back of the book is even in high school, my dad was a home builder, so like I've been in the sticks and bricks for a while and then coming out of school work for a family office based in, with the U S kind of real estate arm. It is a German family office. We did a bunch of cool projects. I just fell in love with value add real estate investing and opportunistic and value add kind of hairy projects, broken resort redevelopments and multifamily developments, that kind of stuff. And then, one milestone was the realization that I also like company building and so started working on the infrastructure and the models and the analyst training materials and kind of that side of things. Eventually the CEO of that business spun out, picked about a dozen of us and we started a pension fund advisory, which, we became a registered investment advisor, like institutionalized the, inner workings of the family office to serve these pension fund clients, which was my first, foray into company building, post college that was definitely a milestone and then in between backflip what i'm doing now. I had a startup. Where a colleague and I left I helped him Form a company that was in the real estate hospitality space that We bought big apartment buildings and then leased them to The residents in Airbnb with the residents were gone. So, you know, done a handful of different strategies, gotten more and more entrepreneurial, throughout my career. But the common theme is real estate built environment, technology overlay, kind of obsessed with that diagram Yeah. Okay. Well, and you brought up something that I would love for you to maybe define a little bit more. And that is a family office. When you talk about a family office, it's great because you worked in it. Can you give our audience kind of more of a definition of what that is and maybe some of the functionality of what a family office does and why somebody would have one? Yeah. So a family office is, depending on the size of it, it can be like a type of institutional capital. Institutions are managing money on behalf of others. A family office is managing money on behalf of a family or a group of families. And the family office can take a little more risk, do little things differently than institutional investors that, that may be worried about losing their jobs or whatever the family, at the end of the day, there was a boss and that boss can want to do things that are, Exciting and interesting and make sense and things that don't make sense. So you get a little bit more, I don't know, volatility is the right word, but like family offices come to a lot of different flavors. As compared to institutional investors. Yeah. And, and is there kind of a dollar amount or range, you know, when somebody thinks of, Hey, I'm probably makes sense to start a family office. I'm sure it's a huge gamut, but like what would be maybe the sweet spot from an asset or assets under management Yeah. That's a good question. I think it depends on what the objectives of the family are, we managed about 800 million, of equity, which was just the real estate component of this, kind of Forbes, list family. And so I'm used to big versions of those, but it doesn't need to be that, you know, if someone has been successful, in their career and made. Enough of a nest egg to be able to invest that nest egg and cover the expenses, of the family on a go forward basis, then I think that counts as a family office. And that doesn't need to be a 60 person organization, which is what mine was. Cool. Well, and I think that's a perfect segue. So I know a lot of our audience are independent investors, kind of large, medium, and small agents that are doing both investment related business and traditional business. And a lot of contractors and vendors, as we call them people that we're working with. Can you give us an idea of, all right, so if somebody is out there and they're one of those three buckets, Why should they care about what Wall Street is doing or what institutions are doing? Because it's something that's really passionate to me and part of my background. And that's why I was pumped to get you on today. So like, why should the solo person listening care about what Wall Street is doing in our real estate Yeah, that's a great question. And, like, the short answer is that. Institutional capital moves markets. And even if you don't think it's involved, it's probably involved if a realtor is selling a house or a flipper selling a house, they're selling it to a consumer who's getting a mortgage and that mortgage is tied to institutional, capital. So it's always around the table. If you think about it, I think, let's just say 10 trillion is managed by institutional capital. If 10 percent of that is allocated to real estate, which I think is about right. That's a trillion dollars. If they decide that they want to go from 10 to 10. 1%, you know, that's 10 billion of capital that needs to flow into real estate, almost instantaneously. And so that is one way that just kind of by turning the allocation pie chart dial, they can have us pretty significant impact the other way. And we're seeing this in our business with. You know value add single family. Most people call it flips. I'm just giving my background. I like the value add nomenclature. That product type is institutionalizing in real time and that has Incredibly positive impacts for folks that are in the game at that moment. We've seen this happen with other asset classes student housing self storage You know, if you own self storage in the nineties and cap rates were, you know, 10 to 12, all you had to do is hold it. Cap rates shrink to five and the value of your real estate has doubled without you doing anything. And so being in something sort of pre and then during the institutionalization moment is a great spot to be. So fix and flip housing, particularly on the credit side, is institutionalizing. And so it's a fun time to be building a business in this space. So you just brought up something, Jake, that I want to maybe ask you a little bit more about. And I think that's super astute and everybody should really listen when institutions or wall street or private equity firms or whatever people's definition of like big, big money. moves their decision making by 1 percent or 10 percent or, you know, a 10th of a percent, that's still to your point, billions or hundreds of millions of dollars that gets dispersed among, maybe let's just say the top 50 markets, which we are in Denver. That's a huge effect and people should really perk up to that, or at least read the wall street journal once in a while or tune into CNBC. Just that's why what we're doing is really important and things to focus on. Yeah. But, but being aware, to your point, is step one and maybe the only step for a lot of folks. Sure. But at least you have more context to what's happening in the market. If you think about, what an institutional investor is and does, there's limited partners, so LPs, those are pension funds, endowments, sovereign wealth funds. Kind of characters like that, their only job is to allocate capital. And so they have a pie chart and they say, I want real estate to be 10%. I want fixed income to be this, I want oil to be this, right. And they just try to build a resilient, portfolio. And then within each of those pie chart slices, you then have the opportunity to diversify more. So like, let's double click on real estate. You can diversify amongst geographies. You can diversify amongst asset classes. So hotels, office, residential, et cetera. And then you can diversify amongst strategies. So opportunistic value add core plus core. And so all of those things, it's like a, you know, 40 chess board where you're trying to figure out the right mixture. And so people are always turning the dials and single family, fix and flip loans, for example, maybe the beneficiary of. A dial change, right? And so that's what's happening. That's what's happening now. They also importantly aren't investing themselves typically. So they identify investment managers, which would be private equity funds to execute on these strategies that they have determined they want to be long on. And so, that's post family office. I was working for a pension fund manager. And so we were Doing value add and core plus deals of all asset classes within the U. S. And so I've got exposure to that through that. That's awesome. Well, and the cool thing about that is I really want to kind of drill down into maybe an applicable, explanation that you can give us. You did a really cool project of part of your career with a whole foods conversion. Can you tell our audience about that? Cause I think you'd set this perfect 30, 000 foot. overview. Now this is something that you can kind of say, Hey, this is the type of project that we did. That was a bit of a tiger by the tail. So my first startup kind of after leaving the private equity world, the strategy was to buy trophy, highest rent in the city type apartment buildings. Whole Foods. lease them to primary residents. So not taking any units out of the housing stock, but then when the residents traveled, we would home share on Airbnb, their unit and manage the whole process. And so generating some extra NOI, on that unoccupied square footage while the flight attendant is, at work for a few days and then split in the economics with the underlying resident. And so that was the business plan. We were looking at big buildings, small buildings, just trying to get something done. And we ended up buying the Whole Foods building at Union Station. Which if you're in Denver, you've probably, eaten there or seen that building. I think at the time it was like a 300 million acquisition. It was the largest apartment acquisition in the state of Colorado ever. When my partner, Dan Cohen, he's a local real estate guy here. He's awesome. Bought that building. And so that was in 2018, I think. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. That's a really cool experience. And that's why I was so excited to have you on is you've got such different background from some of our other guests. And I really want to give kind of our audience a different breath of all the different styles of investing. So this is gold. Before we get into kind of talking more about what you're doing in backflip, and then we're definitely going to extrapolate this to what's going on in the Denver market. Maybe tell us a little bit about what you're personally investing in, or I get it. You've got a lot of time and energy and money into backflip, but maybe something that's on your radar. If you're not saying this is where I allocate my investment dollars. I try to diversify a bit, but as you correctly stated, I'm pretty, you know, a lot of my eggs are in the back basket. I've got, Condo in Austin. Cool. That I've owned for, five or six years we were gonna be the equity on developing the condo and then didn't end up doing it. But I liked the developer, like the project. We ended up buying it. And frankly, actually right now I'm trying to sell it 'cause I don't have enough time to manage it. It doesn't even take a lot of time, but it's not actually passive. And I totally screwed it up because we had a tenant that was paying good rent, been there for three years. You know, we said, Hey, I think we're going to sell this paid to stage it, get it cleaned up, put on the market, absolute crickets. And now we're talking about leasing it again, for a lower rent than we had before. So it's a hard game. That's the direct, side. And then I put, money into some of my former colleagues deals. They do apartments or industrial development or retail value ad. And so I kind of stay close to them and support them and diversify in that way. And then in terms of equities and personal portfolio, I do like REITs. Yeah. I think REITs are very under appreciated. I'm familiar with real estate. Of course I see you know, a bunch of startups because I'm paying attention to that space closely when it's like by a fraction of a single family portfolio and, it's all this buzz around it. And when you peel back the layers, I'm like, all right, I could buy a REIT that's tax efficient, liquid, no startup risk, and diversified, or you could lock money up into a REIT. high risky, getting off the ground, non-tax efficient, non diversified, non-liquid. It's like kinda hard for me to justify that. Yeah. And so comfortable with Reads. Yeah. No, I think that's really smart. I think that's something that people should look at more. I come from two different schools of thought. One's more of a wall street family on my side. And then my father in law was a real estate guy. True and true. With self storage with mixed use with, some land and development. And so I, I have this nice blend of both worlds and yeah, people, I think sometimes in our real estate space, people get so enamored with the types of businesses we're doing and we get it. We're in this day to day, but they forget about the market and you can have that exposure to something like a REIT, and you really gain so much of the benefit without, to your point, a lot of risk. And the liquidity is super important too, to take advantage of other opportunities. You can't lock your money up for seven years. It's tied up. Yeah. There's a moment in time. I don't think it's the situation today where you can buy REITs and yield, you know, significantly more attractive from a cash flow perspective than investing in the real estate itself. This is true for more stabilized or core properties. And so, if I was still doing, institutional investment management at that time, I'd say, why would we buy this apartment building when we can just buy A REIT that returns more and has all these other benefits. I think it's tougher to do that in value add. So people, that are doing, fix and flip projects, like you're not going to beat those returns on a well executed project by buying REIT shares, but something to keep in mind Yeah. Well, and before we dive into what backflip has going on, is there, you're obviously a student of real estate, you're a student of the market and investing. Is there something that you do, whether it's working on your business versus in your business, That you can kind of maybe share with folks is we've got other entrepreneurs out there of what they're doing. You're, you're busy day to day, but is there something you try to zoom out and say, Hey, I'm kind of trying to think of on the business versus just down and dirty in the business. Like that's hard to do. You mean like just kind of learning generally or maybe just learning generally, or whether you call that personal development or things that you're trying to better yourself with it. Of course, hopefully translates into running your business. Yeah, I think consuming content, and being very open minded about the type and sort of breadth and depth of content that is consumed as a good way to just continue to become more well rounded. Example, I'm naturally an equity investor, but given what we're doing at Backflip at this stage, we're credit investors, making loans and it's actually a completely different, mindset shift, in credit. It doesn't matter how there's no upside, right? Like all you can do is get your interest in and loan back. And so it becomes more about avoiding losers than it does picking winners. Which is just kind of an interesting, an interesting mindset shift. The venture capital model, for example, is going to invest in 10 companies and those that eight of them are going to go bust. And one of them will return the whole fund and they don't care about the eight. They go bust. Well, they care about the founders and all that stuff. But like from a financial perspective, that's the model. And so I've been trying to get just more familiar with how credit investors think. Recently read a book called the price of time, by Edward Chancellor. It's a great book. It's the history of interest, basically. And so it's kind of start to today. And then podcasts like Howard Marks, who runs Oak tree. He's been putting out an awesome memo for decades. Now there's a podcast called behind the memo where he dives into all these concepts. Apollo's got a pretty good podcast with Torst and their chief economist, view from Apollo. I think it is so, just, you know, trying to stay, when driving or love mowing the lawn or whatever. On top of what's going on. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. So let's shift gears a little bit and let's dive into Backflip. The great thing is that people that are already in our community know Backflip. Yeah. We've worked with you guys for, we're now starting on our sixth project with you guys, but can you give us kind of an overall summary of what backflip is right now? So everybody goes, Oh, okay. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. First of all, thank you for being a customer. You're one of our favorites. We can't say the favorite cause that would have, you know, offend somebody, but like you're the poster child. So it's been awesome. Backflip put very simply, our mission is to empower local entrepreneurs to rejuvenate homes so people can love. The tailwinds of the business model are under supply of housing, aging housing stock that doesn't get as many headlines. But if you think about it like that, homes on average are old and obsolete and not affordable because of the first thing. So it's a pretty clear problem. I've always said when I want to pursue a business, it's going to be something that's on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Like everyone's got to live somewhere that need is not going away. And so, you know, by executing on our mission, it's very fulfilling, both in terms of what we're doing to helping facilitate in the housing stock and the positive impact that has on families in the built environment also supporting these entrepreneurs, which are part of this creator economy that's really interesting and really just getting started, I think. So that's our customer. That's what we're trying to do. We do it by providing a couple of different types of products today. Technology products and capital products are kind of the two big buckets. And then we really focus on community to which we haven't productized, but it is really important in this space. I'm going to talk about. What that means on the technology side, the easiest way to think of it is like Zillow with investor goggles. Yeah. So very data heavy and trying to give, our customers, we call them members that, the data at their fingertips, it's a mobile App. So in the palm of their hands, you know what they need to make a good investment decision and to look at a significantly more number of deals. Then they were able to previously, the old way of doing things without backflip. You write down the address, you go home, you open your spreadsheet, you open Zillow and Redfin, a few different tabs, and you try to like put together this comp set using tools that are built for consumers, built for investors. And so we wanted to build the investor version of that. Um, we wanted to get that away for free, which is what we're doing. We monetize on the capital product side. So we then have a, you know, pretty seamless, like the deal, it's your buy box apply for a loan. There's a digital loan application experience. And then we fund, we fund the loan with our own capital. And then we deal with it on the capital markets in the backside, but that's how we're generating revenue to grow the team. We've gone from, just really two of us, my co founder Josh and I in late 2020 to there's close to 80 people on the team. So it's, uh, That's becoming a bit of a machine. Yeah, it is. Well, it's been great for us to work with your team. You've got great marketing staff. You've got great underwriting staff. We're working with people all over the country. Maybe talk a little bit about the markets that you serve from a lending perspective, but even just dip into your right. If you've got 80 people, you guys are all over the place, which is really a cool way that business is now getting done. It's going to be nice if they're all just sitting in a room in Denver, but that's not reality anymore. So I'd love maybe hit on those two things. Yeah. So from a market's perspective, fortunately this loan type business purpose, non owner occupied, those are two keywords is not nearly as regulated as a consumer mortgage. And so we're able to get to most of the country to most of the rooftops in the country without, having to cut through a lot of red Tape. So we're in about 43 states now. Colorado is one of the top five. Texas is number one. Florida, Ohio, Tennessee, a few others, you know, tied for second through fifth. But we like, we like Denver and Colorado a lot for. A lot of reasons Yeah. And what's maybe as of last year, what are the number of loans that you guys have done, overall Yeah. We're doing north of a hundred a month. Nice. At this point. Which is about $30 million plus or minus, depending on loan sides. So that's, I remember we did. In 2021, we got started. We did like 4 million worth of loans. 2022, we did 35 million, 2023 was 135 million. And now we're approaching 200 million and we still have the fourth quarter to go. So, it's been, well received by the market. And partially what's really cool about this business is repeat customers like yourself. So if you're in a consumer mortgage space or, doing any real estate prop tech business plan where there's a retail buyer at the end of the chain, you're spending money to find that buyer. You're developing relationship with them. You transact with them usually just one time. And so that results in a lot of things like one, they don't really have a true product need. The most important thing is pricing. It's not the relationship. It's not, it's just, you treat the customer differently. From our perspective, our customers and our repeat customers are like just amazing. And so like we work really hard to build and maintain good relationships and to provide value to them in everything they're doing, from beginning to end. And so, that's something that we've always known to be true with this business, but as we've gotten into it, it's pretty magical. Something that I'd love to kind of like talk a little bit more about is you talked about, the consumer side or the client side, you're running a great remote business. Maybe just touch on that a little bit, because we do have a lot of entrepreneurs and people that, yeah, they use real estate as a way to generate wealth, but you guys are doing cool things on building a business too. Just tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, that's been, I appreciate the question. That's been really interesting. And we started in 2020. So it was remote from day one and Josh, my co founder and I are in different cities. He's based in Dallas. So the way that we communicate. is remote. And so that's enabled our culture to be set up in a way. I think of it as like an operating culture that is, remote work is productive. we don't email each other internally, which like I tell people when they're like, how does that even possible? We use Slack, we use instant messaging type tools. We work within docs and projects themselves. And we do a lot of video recordings and audio messages and just like a whole reprogramming that people need to go through when they transition from working usually anywhere else into a backflip environment. That said, it's been quite successful where we've got folks in, it's probably approaching 40 states at this point. So you can't really put the toothpaste back in the tube. What's really interesting is you mentioned like, if, you know, it may be nice if everyone was here in Denver, and, There's some truth to that for certain things. Everyone would be quite like each other. And what we found with hiring remotely is the backgrounds and perspectives of people is really unique and different. And we've got people in, you know, Kansas city to Napa Valley, to New York city. And like, it's just a really interesting and awesome group of people. We did a During a standup yesterday, I think a prompt, what was your first job? And, you know, in my old world, the first job would be like, invest in baking McKinsey. Like, just like five different things. Right here. It's like Amazon fulfillment center or like your veterinary clinic or like wrote poetry, like just completely all over the board stuff. I thought it was really, really cool. Yeah. Well, it's cool. You say that because one of my first interactions with part of your team was Mariah from the marketing perspective and she does an amazing job. And then I saw where she's. You know, working from Bozeman, Montana, I'm a fellow fighting Bobcat. I went to college there and I was always a little jealous cause it's like, damn, you go there and this is a long time ago. So it's dating me, but there were no job opportunities. Now you can have somebody who's a super smart person adding value to the company, living in an amazing part of the country that I wouldn't move from back in the day had I not had, you know, unfortunately not as many opportunities. So that's really cool We've now got two people in bozeman, Maria, who's absolutely crushing it. I think she does like 200 events a year or something like that. And then Richard who I'm meeting after this, he's flying down for a day trip. Richard runs capital markets. And we joke, it's not really even a joke. We operate the largest trading desk in all of Montana. So, yeah, that part's been, it's been fun. It's a different challenge, right? Like you're solving a problem for our customers and then we're also figuring out how to build a company of this type remotely and there's no playbook for that. gosh, this has been such a great episode. We've got Jake with backflip. And so I actually have a lot more questions. And so what I'd love to do is wrap this one today. We're going to come back and give you guys a second episode. We're going to dive deeper into what backflip is doing on a day to day basis and also dive into the Denver market. So stay tuned for episode two with Jake from backflip. Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of raising the flipping bar. If you found value in our insights and stories, let's keep the conversation going, connect with me on social media, and be sure to share this episode with friends or colleagues who might benefit your feedback and reviews, help us grow and reach more listeners like you. So please, if you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review. Thanks again to the elevation Academy for sponsoring today's show. If you're interested in learning more, click the link in the show notes below and remember every property tells a story. Every deal brings a lesson. Keep reaching for those goals and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey everybody. Thank you so much for listening and watching, raising a flipping bar. Just a basic overall disclaimer is that a, This is not legal advice. B, this is not tax advice. C, this is not financial advice. I hope you get the gist, but I'm obviously not a lawyer, not a CPA hell. I'm not even a real estate agent actually, but in general, we hope you get a ton of value out of this, but there is a bit of a disclaimer. Please consult a professional if you have any questions whatsoever.