Red Phosphorous Meth and Getting Trapped in the Devil's Playground - Toni and Matt Hand Part 1

Matt and Toni are happily married and doing well now, but before they ever met, each of them as individuals became trapped in the devil's playground where their lives nearly ended before they ever even met.  This first episode begins with Matt's story.

Matt had a decent home life as a child, even with his dad being in a wheelchair and his mom working two jobs to try and pay the bills.  But when his dad died the family began to fall apart, and when Red Phosphorous Meth entered the picture, everything began to disintegrate all around him, and he couldn't see any farther than getting the next hit.  The Devil hooked him from the very first "hit" and Matt had no idea of the tailspin his life was about to take.

Transcript

Matt 0:00

I remember one part of it. And that's what made everybody like, you gotta go to sleep. Someone accused me of stealing their drugs and I put a shotgun to his chin. And when I went to pull the trigger my mom's boyfriend slapped the gun away and I blew a hole to the roof of the, uh, house.

Phil Shuler 0:16

HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the Safe House Ministries podcast, where we share stories of the power of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. Safe House Ministries is based out of Columbus, Georgia, and we are a ministry that exists to love and serve people who have been affected by addiction, homelessness, and incarceration. I'm your host, Phil Shuler, the Director of Development for Safe House Ministries here in Columbus, Georgia. Safe House serves over 1, 100 people each month as they transition back into our community. Safe House provides an abundance of services including 213 beds for homeless individuals and families, case management for obtaining job skills and long term employment. Over 300 hot meals every day, free clothing, and so much more. One of the most incredible services that Safe House provides is our free 9 12 month intensive outpatient substance abuse program, which is state licensed, CARF accredited, and has no wait list. Almost 100 percent of individuals staying in our shelters who follow our three phase program become fully employed within a few months. And 68 percent of individuals who stay at least one night with us End up finding work and moving into their own home. Thank you for being with us today and listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoy this week's episode.

Phil 1:29

Good morning. Today on the podcast, I have Tony Hand and Matt hand, and I'm excited to have both of them. They are a husband and wife, if you didn't guess that already. And each of them has just a unique and amazing story individually, but the story of how God brought them together is also really neat. And so I'm excited to have you guys here. Tony. Matt, thank you for being here this morning. Thank

Toni 1:55

you. Thank you for having us.

Phil 1:56

So just to kick off each one of you, you think about, if there was one word that would best describe you, Matt, we'll start with you. What do you think that word would be? Me. Yeah. Annoying. Annoying. Ah, he is, but in a good way. In a good way, yeah. All right. He didn't let things go. He makes, he makes sure you deal with things. He

Toni 2:15

keeps me on my toes just as much as the kids do, for sure. All

Phil 2:19

right. How about you, Tony? What would be the word that might best describe you? I.

Toni 2:23

Determined, determined. I don't give up. If there's something that I've set my mind to, then we are going to accomplish it one way or the other.

Phil 2:32

It's, there's a lot of value in that quality.

Toni 2:34

Yeah.

Phil 2:34

That's good. Yeah. Sometimes

Toni 2:36

that can be annoying too, though.

Phil 2:37

No doubt. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm glad to have you guys here today. Thank you. I'm excited about hearing y'all stories and, just pulling out all the lessons that the Lord has taught you guys, things that we can share to our listeners that they can learn from as well. Matt let's kick off with your story. Maybe just start us at the beginning. Where did you grow up and what was home life like for you as a kid?

Matt 3:03

I grew up here in Columbus, Georgia, and, uh, it was a struggle growing up. Uh, my dad was disabled for like the first eight years of my life. He was in a wheelchair, and my mom, she worked two jobs. And, uh, my dad, he was just being in a wheelchair. It was hard for us to have like a better income because he was disabled. But he did try to like, rebuild car motors do stuff around the house. But, we grew up in a house where we wasn't rich, but we had everything that we needed. Yeah. Where was it again? Here in Columbus. Here in Columbus. Okay. Just actually right down the road, probably about two miles from here.

Toni 3:40

Yeah. He's a lifer. Yeah. And

Matt 3:42

so, we grew up here. My, like I said, my mom worked two jobs. My dad, he was disabled, but he taught us like how to cook, how to work on cars make sure we got up every morning for school. Like he didn't play about school. Like you was serious about that. Yeah. And, um, how

Phil 3:58

many siblings did you

Matt 3:58

have? I have two brothers and a sister that live here in the United States. And then from my dad's previous marriage, before my mom, I have a brother and sister that lives in Oslo, Norway.

Phil 4:10

Okay. And were those guys in, were those siblings in the house growing up with you guys? No. Okay.

Matt 4:13

One of my brothers and my sister and like, I think it was about 12, I was about 12 years old, and my oldest brother from my mom's, before my, her and my dad got together, he came and lived with us. And so everything was growing up. It was all right. Like I said, we struggled like any low class family as the society would consider us.

Phil 4:36

Yeah. Low income category. Right.

Matt 4:38

And it was only due to the fact that my dad was disabled. Yeah. Uh, my mom, she worked two jobs and provided for us all, but

Toni 4:48

they were happy.

Matt 4:49

Yeah.

Phil 4:50

Yeah.

none 4:50

That's

Phil 4:50

okay. Good. So did things begin to change or like, what did it look like as you went into your teenage years?

Matt 4:56

Um, it did actually change. Uh, my dad, he finally got outta his wheelchair and, um, he was able to start doing more mechanic work like he was at home. Dad, you know, my mom she got promotions at work over the years. She worked for Winn-Dixie for 22 years. Wow. And so she got promotions. We ended up moving from where we lived at. We moved up to North Columbus. Things started getting a little easier. Me and my brother, we were nine and 10 years old and we were cutting grass. We had like 60 yards a month that we cut. And so we would do that to help out with like buying our school clothes or stuff that we wanted. Plus we would also split it with my mom and them to help them out too. My dad was real sick though. Like he had emphysema, COPD. and so he got real sick and over the years things just progressed worse with him and we ended up moving from Columbus to Phoenix City and, uh, over time my dad got worse. And really just, we all stuck together though as a family. Pretty close. Everybody's pretty close, right? Yeah. I ended up with a, my first wife and we had my son Anthony.

Phil 6:07

So this like when you were a teenager, like you guys got together when you were young? Yeah, I was

Matt 6:10

18.

Phil 6:11

Were you in the world of drugs at all at that point? No. Or had you been in trouble with the law at all?

Matt 6:16

Uh, I went to jail one time for being at the wrong place. At the wrong time with someone? Yeah. We worked somewhere and he went into the little cashier office. Uh, we were doing a night job and he went into the office and stole some money outta the register. And because I was there, we both got charged. Okay. Like, I wasn't even in that side of the building. I was getting the stuff that I needed for the job. Yeah. And so I went to jail, stayed in jail for like four hours or something like that. Okay. But, um,

Phil 6:47

this was around 18 you said? Yeah. And, and you had started dating that young lady at that time, around that time,

Matt 6:53

right? I was working two full-time jobs and a part-time job. Wow. I worked pig wiggly stocking. Yeah. Like ear middle night to early morning. And then I would get off there. That was my part-time job. I would get off there and then I would go and clean swimming pools from like 8:00 AM until five. And then I get off there, rush home, take a shower, and go to Pizza Hut, work from six to 12, one o'clock at night.

none 7:19

Wow.

Matt 7:20

So, and it was just a lot because my dad's medicine was so expensive. Plus I had things that I wanted to do, car, and everything was okay, like as far as doing that. And then we had our son in January of 2003. And then in April of 2003, my dad passed away.

Phil 7:41

Wow. And how old were you at that point?

Matt 7:43

Uh, 19.

Phil 7:44

Wow. So you, no, 19. You were married at by that 19 already? No. Okay. Just together with that girl, you had your first son and your dad passed away. Yes, sir. That's a lot.

Matt 7:55

And then, um, after my dad passed away, we did end up getting married and we moved to Troy, Alabama.

Phil 8:01

Was your mom, were you still pretty close to your mom through that?

Matt 8:05

Yeah.

Phil 8:05

Okay. Like

Matt 8:06

we were all close and then everybody,

Phil 8:10

you had moved out by that point?

Matt 8:11

Well, no, actually, um, me, the girl I was with and my son, we lived at the house with my mom and my dad. Okay. Like I said, we were all pretty close in family, but I knew my mom couldn't do it by herself.

none 8:24

Yeah.

Matt 8:24

So I stayed and helped my mom with the bills and everything. And then after my dad passed away, we all just kind of went our separate ways. Okay. He was like the backbone of the family. He was the glue. Yeah. It held everything together. So, um, we moved to Troy, Alabama, stayed down there for a while ended up coming back, found out she was pregnant again with our second son, and, um, moved back up here and things just went south. We separated.

Phil 8:54

not drugs or anything at that point? No. Just you guys just couldn't get along anymore and just kind of

Matt 8:59

Right. And she was pregnant with our second son and, um, I ended up, uh, my mom, she had got a new boyfriend and um, I ended up going to stay out where they were. So you were

Phil 9:09

back on your own, just living with your mom and she had the kids or what was right? Yeah. Okay.

Matt 9:15

When I moved in with my mom, there was some people out there that always partying, doing different stuff. I'm still working two jobs. Like they were

Toni 9:22

already using at this point. At your

Phil 9:24

mom's house, right. That, so her and her new boyfriend, there was drugs they were using. Yes, sir. And you were just living there working two jobs. Right.

Matt 9:32

I didn't know what they were doing because I worked my daytime job at doing the swim pools again. And then at night I worked back at pizza. Yeah.

Phil 9:41

So you were gone a lot. Right. Most of the time I was gone all day. Were there drugs at all in your mom's life as you were growing up or this was a more No, this was, she just had done that. And by the time you came back, she was in the midst of that.

Matt 9:52

And I think like what really happened is when my dad passed away and everybody just went their own separate way, knowing how to cope and deal with a death. We just didn't know how. Yeah. You know, growing up, I'd never been to a funeral.

Toni 10:07

Yeah. Especially like a death of that magnitude. Like, his dad was so significant in their family.

Phil 10:13

Yeah. And

Toni 10:13

nobody knew how to deal with losing him.

Phil 10:16

Wow.

Toni 10:16

And

Phil 10:17

was there any faith in your childhood? Like, did you guys go to church at all or was that a part of your childhood at all?

Matt 10:24

We did go to church growing up. Just being a young kid really didn't understand Yeah. What everything was. I just know that we went to church and we always heard about God and Jesus and the things that he could do for us and everything, but I never took it in.

none 10:41

Yeah.

Matt 10:42

still to this day, I, I do have some, uh, struggles. Struggles with my faith.

none 10:47

Okay.

Matt 10:48

I've always had a issue with it. It's hard to put my faith into something that I can't physically see or hear.

Phil 10:53

Yeah. I mean, it is hard. Yeah.

Matt 10:57

But looking back throughout my whole life, I know if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be here.

Phil 11:01

Yeah.

Matt 11:02

But, uh,

Phil 11:03

so you're in a bad situation. You're living with your mom, her and her boyfriend are doing drugs. Well, there was a

Matt 11:08

bunch of people I didn't even know my mom was doing drugs.

Phil 11:11

So there was other people living at the house or just She was connected to a,

Matt 11:15

it was like a party spot? It was party house all the time. Was it a trap

Phil 11:17

house essentially? No, and it was, it was just a party house. Drugs everywhere. Yeah. We lived

Matt 11:21

on the back waters, like out there grilling and Oh, throwing horseshoe on the boat. Jet skis, like whatever.

Phil 11:29

Somebody had money,

Matt 11:30

uh, I mean from somewhere people up the river and stuff. Like we had a boat. But my mom's boyfriend had a boat and then people from other river, like we had the only concrete dock and boat ramp in our front yard. So everybody comes there and that's how we met up with a lot of the people. But like I said, with me working two jobs, I never knew what was going on at home. I just know I'd come home crazy and everybody's partying, like drinking out on the dock, listening to music. It is 11 o'clock at night. Wow. And I had a really bad day at work and um, I come home and a friend of mine that was there, he was like, why don't you come out here and party with us? I'm like, bro, I'm tired. I'm ready to go to bed. Had a bad day, just lemme be. And he was like, come on man. I got some girls out here. And I'm like, he was like, but before we go out there, he was like, look, this will help you out he opened the roll top desk that we had and, uh. You know the plastic CD cases?

none 12:25

Yeah.

Matt 12:25

He had a bunch of lines cut out on it. I never knew, I never been around no drugs. Seen people smoke weed and stuff growing up.

none 12:32

Yeah.

Matt 12:32

But like never been around, nothing hardcore I was like, I asked him, I said, what is that? And he told me, he said, its And he is like, all you do is snort line and you'll be good to go. And um, I was like, I don't know how to do that. Like, I'm, I'm truly dumb to drugs.'Cause my dad kept us away from all that growing up.

none 12:49

Yeah.

Matt 12:50

Uh, we didn't get to go run the streets. We didn't get to go play. He was working too much.

Phil 12:54

He couldn't get in trouble.

Matt 12:55

Well, I'm talking about like growing up. Yeah. Even as kept you teenager, he kept you

Phil 13:00

away from that,

Matt 13:00

right? Yeah. Like he never had a sleep over until he was like 16 years old, old. I never spent the night off until I was like 16. Man, I like

Phil 13:07

your dad. And, um,

Matt 13:09

like we could have friends come to the house, but we could never go to their house or go like we could go other. Yeah. Your dad

Phil 13:16

wanted to protect you, it sounds like. He understood the things that often happen when you go other places. And

Matt 13:21

truthfully, I'm, if I'm truthful, I used to think that my dad was just wrong. But now that I've had kids of my own. Stuff. And the way the world is turning out now, I could it is just, I understand.

none 13:34

Yeah.

Matt 13:35

But

Phil 13:35

so I like your dad, man. I, uh, I'm a strange bird like that. I've never, I don't let my kids sleep over at other places. And man, he was real

Matt 13:42

strict. Like I got in a lot of trouble growing up in elementary school and stuff.

Toni 13:48

Matthew's a troublemaker.

Matt 13:50

I was, I was, I really was. Like, my dad spent more time at school in fourth grade than I did. Wow. But I understand why now, why he was so strict on us and try to protect us from the lifestyle. Like my co realizing as I was getting older, my cousins was always in and outta trouble, um, on cocaine and stuff. Like meth wasn't a thing back when I was growing up. Not around here. It was all cocaine or weed.

Phil 14:16

Yeah. And your, I guess your dad was probably very aware of the, your cousins and everything that was going on. He would

Matt 14:22

like, we couldn't even go over to their house without him. Wow. And if we did go over there, we mostly sit in the car, but Wow. So I never So you,

Phil 14:32

you were at that party. Yeah. And that was your first exposure to Drove

Matt 14:36

Was. And so he was like, I'll show you how. So he snorted a little bit of a line and me not knowing any better, like the CD case had lines cut all the way across it, big lines. And I didn't know that you was only supposed to snort a little bit of it at a time. So I snorted a whole line. That was a lot. It was almost a half a eight ball. Is that Yeah,

Phil 14:55

it's a lot in the, in the world of drugs. Is that like a Yeah. Really big amount. Especially for your first time.

Matt 15:00

Yes. Like for back then, because it was red phosphorous meth, which is cooked with a bunch of different chemicals, so it's a lot stronger. But, uh, I didn't know. I did the whole thing. I stayed up for seven days, man.

Phil 15:12

Wow.

Matt 15:12

And

Phil 15:13

wow. So that, that was it. That just, I lost my

Matt 15:16

job. Both my jobs. I lost

Phil 15:18

you. You dove headfirst into the darkness in that one moment.

Matt 15:21

Right. And in a split second. Like this time. The thing about it is though, that one time did it. I was hooked.

Phil 15:26

That's so crazy. But, and it's. Just to think about the way that our enemy works. Like you had no idea. You're, you're just like innocent of that world. Yeah. And you don't have the understanding and the knowledge and you, and

Matt 15:40

like I experienced with weed before, you know, or like, uh, Adderall pills in high school.

none 15:46

Yeah.

Matt 15:47

But just the Adderall in high school, I, a friend of mine told me like, if you're tired, you can take one of these because Wow. Even in high school I worked. Yeah. And so being tired on the days that I did go to school anyways. So seven

Phil 16:02

y

Matt 16:02

seven

Phil 16:03

days straight. Yes sir. Just the lack of sleep. Even let alone the toxicity of the drugs. The, I mean,

Toni 16:09

you start hallucinating hearing start hall, start

Matt 16:11

hallucinating seeing stuff that ain't there. And do you remember

Phil 16:14

that seven days or?

Matt 16:16

No,

Phil 16:17

it's kind of,

Matt 16:17

I remember one part of it. And that's what made everybody like, you gotta go to sleep. Someone accused me of stealing their drugs and I put a shotgun to his chin. And when I went to pull the trigger my mom's boyfriend slapped the gun away and I blew a hole to the roof of the, uh, house. What, this was during that seven day period? Yes, it was the seventh day. Wow. And finally they were like, you gotta go to sleep. Uh.

Toni 16:42

He was losing it at that point.

Matt 16:44

Right.

Toni 16:44

And this was his first experience. I didn't know how to handle it. Wow. Know, he was very, that thing that's so

Matt 16:49

intense at that time. One thing I had never done is stole anything from anyone that was close to me, and the guy that accused me of stealing his dope. Like he was real close to our little family. Yeah. You know? And, um, so finally the guy that gave me the dope the first time he, uh, took me in the, he took me to my room and he was like, bro, you gotta go to sleep. And I'm like, I'm good. Just let me be. So you weren't tired at all? No, but not realizing that my body was running down from being up for so long. Yeah. But I kept doing dope throughout the seven days. I know that. Wow. You know,

Phil 17:25

I assume during that time you probably lost both your jobs not showing up for work.

Matt 17:29

I did. I lost both jobs. I didn't see my, my son at all during that whole week. And then I slept for three days. They locked me, they actually locked me in the bedroom. They put a padlock on the outside of my door and locked me in my room. And every day they would come in and feed me, make sure I had food and stuff. And I would come out and take a shower. But after I got to sleep and I would wake up, I would, I'm ready to go back to sleep.

none 17:54

Wow.

Matt 17:55

But after the three days of me sleeping, I got up and did it all over again and just kept going. You just hit the

Phil 17:59

meth hard again.

Matt 18:00

I was in addiction for 14 years.

Phil 18:02

So it that by that point there was such a compulsion in you that you just

Matt 18:07

really, I think what it was that started out my addiction was the fun that we had.

none 18:13

Yeah.

Matt 18:14

We used to go out on, on the John boat, go gator hunting down the river, just partying, grilling out, and everybody

Toni 18:21

was doing it.

Matt 18:22

Yeah. And it wasn't just like five or six of us. There was always 30 or 40 people there always. Wow. And just living the way the dope was for me. When I got, when I went to prison in 2017, dope for me was different than what it was when I started in 2004.

Phil 18:40

Okay. It was all about the fun in the beginning.

Matt 18:43

Everything was fun. Everybody had good times. We would go out, shoot, pool, go drinking at the bar, like we had fun, and not realizing that we're tearing our mind and our body up with this stuff

Toni 18:57

and they were losing everything in the process.

Phil 18:59

So as you, you had lost your jobs. You were having fun when the, when you started running into. Don't have money for bills, for anything, for food, for like,

Matt 19:09

well, one of the guys that partied with us owned a lawn care service. So we go out and work during the day and then nighttime party all night

Phil 19:18

and go out the next. So he would pay you guys to just keep paying the bills, the light bill and keep going the house and Yeah,

Matt 19:23

like we worked a full-time job. Did y'all all

Phil 19:25

that many people like live there? No,

Matt 19:27

no, no. Like it was all up and down the river. Friends from throughout town, stuff like, we all just hung out there. Wow. I think that was only probably two or three days that I've seen of the six or eight months of living out there where it was just calm and quiet.

Phil 19:45

So that was six eighth month stretch. Yeah. So what, what happened after that then?

Matt 19:50

Kept getting high, just bouncing around. Um,

Phil 19:53

were you part of your kids' lives during that time?

Matt 19:56

Somewhat. I was trying to be, but they wouldn't let me because they knew. Knew the lifestyle not I started doing. Yeah. Which back then I used to blame them when really I should have blamed myself. And so I understand why they protected my kids from seeing me and I had started being in and outta jail. And two, so

Phil 20:16

you, well, what kind of charges landed you in jail?

Matt 20:18

Uh, my first charge ever was manufacturing.

Phil 20:20

Of meth. Meth. Yeah. that's a pretty serious charge, I guess, right?

Matt 20:23

It is real serious. Yeah. Um, I had a 12 year sentence.

Phil 20:26

You were in your early

Matt 20:27

twenties? I went to jail in 2006 for manufacturing, but before that I've been to jail, like for possession of marijuana. my wife at the time put me on child support and I wasn't paying it. They're not letting me see my kids. I'm not paying, it was my mindset. Yeah. Not realizing that I was hurting my kids more than anything. So I was in and outta jail a couple times, still doing dope. and then I got busted. Me and another girl got busted with a meth lab and I ended up getting a 12 year sentence split due 18 months in the county, which I ended up doing two years on that.

Phil 21:03

In the county jail?

Matt 21:04

Yes, sir. And I got out and I was trying to do good. Me and my kid's mom got back together and not knowing that when I got out, she was on dope.

Phil 21:13

So you go right back into an environment where it's, where were you still using while you were in jail? No,

Matt 21:19

I was clean for Was that

Phil 21:20

because you just made the decision to stay away from it, or was it really difficult to get access to?

Matt 21:26

Uh, a little bit of both. Okay. Like. Probably if they could've got it in there, I probably would've did it. And then I got out and she was doing drugs too, like we were staying together and she was laying in the bed right next to me and smoke a bowl. And it just got to the point to where

Phil 21:41

is that meth?

Matt 21:42

Yeah. It got to the point to where I'm like, lemme get at it.

Phil 21:45

Wow. So you got right back into it?

Matt 21:47

Yeah, I think I was out for about maybe two and a half, three weeks, and then I got right back on it. And from there it was just a downhill spiral man. I ended up homeless, like I slept in the woods under a camper shell that goes on the truck. Yeah. I slept in the woods for two months under that.

Phil 22:04

Wow. Storage units he lived in. So did she kick you out or was it No, I left Because you were just, you knew you were a mess. To find out

Matt 22:10

where she had me staying was her boyfriend's house. He was outta town working.

Phil 22:15

Wow. Yeah. And so he was gonna be coming back, so you just got out before he came back.

Matt 22:19

And the bad part about it is I knew the guy, like we used to work together but when we were together, he didn't have the house. He had a completely different place, like neither here nor there, so I ended up leaving just bouncing from place to place. Getting with this girl, that girl doing whatever, just kept doing dope. In and outta jail,

Phil 22:36

living the party life. Don't care about responsibility. No cares in the world. Yeah. Really. The drugs just,

Matt 22:42

yeah. And then, um,

Phil 22:44

did you have to check in with like a probation

Toni 22:46

officer during that time? I never did. He was always on the run.

Phil 22:49

Okay. So there was probably a warrant out for your arrest. You're just trying to always dodge and that's one

Matt 22:54

reason why I bounced from place to place is I never stayed in one place for more than two weeks. Okay.

Toni 22:58

Yeah. Like there's probably not a bondsman around here that hasn't bonded him out and tell you they will never do it again. Yeah.

Phil 23:06

Wow.'cause they would try to find you and they just could, you just kept bouncing so much they couldn't find you. Yeah.

Toni 23:11

Right. Matthew used to tell them like, you better lay up your Nikes, put shoes.

Phil 23:15

Wow. Did you ever, was anybody ever close to catching you? Like, uh, oh yeah. But you just snuck out, got away from'em

Matt 23:22

Man, one bondsman was coming in the front door and I was going out the back.

Phil 23:25

What is that scenario like? do they have guns? do you never, do people shoot back at them or just like, I around never stuck around to find out.

Matt 23:34

I, they was always an escape route. Wherever I was at, I could get out. Yeah. And I used to stay, uh, with a friend of mine. And, uh, they, him and his wife, they had a big property and stuff and they had a fallout shelter. Like a bomb shelter.

none 23:48

Yeah.

Matt 23:49

And, uh, the bondsman and police and everybody came out there, one line, I'm in the bomb shelter, watching'em on camera walk right over the top of me. And they couldn't find me

Phil 23:58

because they didn't know where the entrance was. Right.

Matt 24:00

It was covered with grass. If you didn't know where it was, you would never find it. Wow. And so I'm hiding and then when they leave, I leave from there. I won't go back for a while. And, uh, wow. Just on the, always on the run doing stupid stuff. And, um,

Phil 24:17

Were you manufacturing at that time or just using

Matt 24:19

No, just using

Phil 24:20

sell. Like how'd you make money? Did you just bum off of other people?

Matt 24:23

Sell dope.

Phil 24:24

Okay.

Matt 24:25

I would, I would hit a lick, which is

Toni 24:28

a robbery. Yeah.

Matt 24:29

Like, we'll go steal copper or something, cash it in that scrape yard, get money and we'll go buy a big quantity of dope and then just turn around and sell it. That way we can make money and still get high.

none 24:40

Okay.

Matt 24:40

So we did that for a while in and outta jail again. Possession of meth.

Phil 24:46

During that time, you said you were homeless, like living under a camper for a couple of months too.

Matt 24:50

Yeah. Like, it was just always drugs.

Phil 24:53

Were you ever like afraid or worried or were you just like, yeah. Didn't care. You're just kind of stayed so high, you just, nothing mattered.

Toni 25:00

Yeah. Didn't, I didn't care about life. He didn't care. He knew at that point, like he couldn't see his kids, and so

Phil 25:07

nothing mattered.

Toni 25:08

Yeah. Nothing mattered. Yeah. Whether he lived or died or, I didn't see my

Matt 25:11

kids for 12 years.

none 25:12

Wow.

Toni 25:12

And um,

Phil 25:13

wow. So you just using the drugs to cope with not knowing how to deal with life essentially. I guess his

Toni 25:20

mental, at that point, like he couldn't see like, Hey, if I get clean and I get my life together, I can have my kids back in my life. There was no logic

Matt 25:30

in your thinking, right? I knew I couldn't get clean though. Not with the lifestyle I was living. The friends that I had, there was no getting clean. It was hopeless. It was. And I've always told myself, if I ever went to prison due to my habit, I would be done. Being in and outta a county jail is nothing, you know, do two months, five months, whatever. It's

Phil 25:52

not, it's not too dangerous. Sometimes people say prison wasn't that bad. Sometimes they say it was a nightmare.

Matt 25:58

I mean, it depends on where you're at. Yeah. And what you make it really. But county

Toni 26:01

jail, I think once you've been there so many times, it's like, Hey, I know everybody. Yeah. It is like a,

Matt 26:07

truthfully, it is like a family reunion when you walk in there. Not with like blood family, but like your street family. Yeah. All your buddies. They're like, Hey, I'm back guys.

Toni 26:17

Right. So it's like, okay, I am going back to county. Big deal. Wow.

Matt 26:21

And so it was just crazy. And um, I got with this one girl right before I got arrested. We've been together for a couple years and we were doing dope and, uh, selling dope and stuff. And I went to jail. I did like five months in jail and got out. And, um, when I got out we were, uh, stealing credit cards, washing checks, uh Wow. Doing all kind of stuff. So

Phil 26:45

you had been connected in that world that you knew how to do some higher level criminal stuff,

Matt 26:51

right? Yeah, I did a lot of white collar stuff. It was almost$500,000 worth of white collar stuff. Wow. And, uh, we were still in credit cards stealing mail outta mailboxes, still getting high. And it got to the point where, I don't know, to me that addiction of the adrenaline was overpowering the dope because the dope was no good. No more

Phil 27:13

how do you mean the adrenaline?

Matt 27:14

Like the adrenaline. It was so easy. The adrenaline, just the criminal activities and the

Phil 27:18

like, you can live the high life steal, make a lot of money, and it make a lot of

Matt 27:22

money. Still get high, had a place to live, like had a vehicle. Still wasn't working,

Phil 27:28

because you were making so much money just criminally. He must be a smart fella. Like that sounds like some higher level kind of stuff.

Toni 27:34

He's super smart. He is super,

Matt 27:35

super smart. You could teach me how to do something one way and I'll find out 10 other ways to do it better. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And that's what happened. Someone taught me how to do credit card fraud and I took it

Toni 27:46

10

Matt 27:47

step

Toni 27:47

higher. Wow. And yeah, when Matthew sets his mind to something, there is like, no stopping him.

Matt 27:54

But, um, we got together, we were still in like we were still in mail outta mailboxes to get the credit cards and checks and money orders, stuff like that. Yeah. We could wash the checks, wash the money orders and refill'em out to us. But I had IDs, a bunch of different IDs with my picture book with different folks' information. So I fill it out to somebody else, go in somewhere and cash it. It's not on my real name.

none 28:18

Yeah.

Matt 28:18

And uh, we ended up the federal, uh, the postmaster started doing a federal investigation on us.'cause we were still in Mill. And, uh, they kicked our door in a few times looking for us, but we didn't stay there. We at hotels or, yeah, we had an apartment out on south side of Columbus, like just going different places. Never got caught up. And then, um. I had someone that was living in my house, and truthfully, still to this day, I believe the guy set me up. Wow. He knew exactly where we were going and how, what vehicle you were in, what vehicle I was in, and what route we go to get there. He knew everything. Wow. And the police was waiting on me. He must

Phil 28:57

have made a deal. I guess he, he had some charges pending and he probably,

Matt 29:01

and so, um, we, we were going and we had her kids with us. They were two 5-year-old twins at the time. And I made a stupid decision that when the police pulled me over, once they got to the back of the car, it was gonna take off. And I did, like when

Phil 29:13

they walked up to the car, you just hit the gas. Right.

Matt 29:15

Right. And I did. And man, I ain't even gonna lie to you. Never had no issue with his car. I drove this car, I gave it hell and, and never had no issue with this. One time I turned a corner sharp and the battery fell over into the motor. What? Shut the whole car off. Wow. Shut the whole car off. Vulnerabilities. Police got me they got me good.

Toni 29:36

Hindsight's 2020. But in that moment, that was the beginning of God saving him.

29:43

And that is the end of part one of Matt and Tony's story. You will hear next week just how God began to step in and change everything for Matt's life. And if we have time next week, we'll also start getting into Tony's story, which is totally different and just as amazing as Mats. So thank you for being with us this week and we look forward to being with you again next week. God bless you.

Phil Shuler 30:10

We look forward to being with you again next week as we share another testimony about the power and the goodness of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. if you are someone listening to this podcast that loves to hear these stories of the great things that God is doing in changing people's lives for the better, and if you would like to be a part of that work, please reach out to us You can reach us at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus, Georgia, 31,904. You can call us at seven oh six three two two. 3 7, 7 3, or you can email us at info@safehouse-ministries.com.

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone)-2 30:48

Thank you so much for being with us this week for the renew restore and rejoice podcast of safe house ministries, we pray that God will bless you this week. And we look forward to having you back with us again next week for a new episode.