Renew. Restore. Rejoice. A SafeHouse Ministries Podcast

Backpack Boogie Life to Prison Inmate Pen Pals! - Part 3 of Matt and Toni's Story

• Phil Shuler • Season 3 • Episode 3

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Matt talks about the many years when he lived out of a backpack he could grab at a moment's notice to bolt out the back if a bounty hunter busted through the front. Toni also begins to share how she reconnected with Matt's family and became his pen pal in prison.  This is a great episode, and we'd love to hear what you think!  If you like our podcast please share it with your friends, and if you have any thoughts or comments, we'd love to hear them at phil@safehouse-ministries.com!

Phil Shuler:

HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the Safe House Ministries podcast, where we share stories of the power of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. Safe House Ministries is based out of Columbus, Georgia, and we are a ministry that exists to love and serve people who have been affected by addiction, homelessness, and incarceration. I'm your host, Phil Shuler, the Director of Development for Safe House Ministries here in Columbus, Georgia. Safe House serves over 1, 100 people each month as they transition back into our community. Safe House provides an abundance of services including 213 beds for homeless individuals and families, case management for obtaining job skills and long term employment. Over 300 hot meals every day, free clothing, and so much more. One of the most incredible services that Safe House provides is our free 9 12 month intensive outpatient substance abuse program, which is state licensed, CARF accredited, and has no wait list. Almost 100 percent of individuals staying in our shelters who follow our three phase program become fully employed within a few months. And 68 percent of individuals who stay at least one night with us End up finding work and moving into their own home. Thank you for being with us today and listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoy this week's episode.

Before we dive into the continuation of Matt and Tony's story, which is gonna be really good this week, by the way, I want to just take a minute and celebrate some of the great blessings and great success God has given Safe House Ministries over the past 18 months. Over the past 18 months, safe House Ministries has been able to help 296 people go from being homeless to being in their own homes, and that is just an amazing accomplishment and something that is worth celebrating for any of you out there that are partners with us in this work. That is fruit that is going to be abounding to your account, and there's no way that we can do the work that we do without the partnership and the help of so many others here in Columbus. So many individuals, so many churches, so many organizations who just step up and really partner with us to help so many. Of our neighbors and friends here in Columbus and in the surrounding area that are in great need. So thank you to those of you that do partner with us already, and I want to encourage and invite any of you that are listening to this podcast if you don't already, if. Some financial contributions to help with the work of Safe House, or if you don't already give some of your time to come and just volunteer to be with us in the work that we do to help people go from being homeless to being housed in their own homes, to help people go from being addicted on drugs and alcohol and in bondage to being free. Then please. Consider this just a personal invitation to join with us, to partner with us. You will be so glad that you did, and all of the continued successes and the wonderful stories of redemption that you hear on this podcast and so many more that we just aren't even able to get onto the podcast because there's so many, you'll be a part of that. So thank you. God bless you. And now we're gonna dive into part three of Matt and Tony's story.

Matt:

In state prison, everything's just run off of gangs and being dumb. Wow. Truthfully federal prison where I was at was a lot better. I was uh, I never been to state prison. I've heard a lot about it from a lot of people that I know have been through prison. I got a one of my best friends right now is in prison and like, it is bad where he was at. He just got moved. But in federal prison, it's what you make it wicked like I, like I said, I did two parenting programs. I did the parenting programs. I started my HVAC apprenticeship. I did a nine month long drug program while I was there to get to stay clean. Uh, yeah, well not really stay clean, but to learn how to use coping skills for different things in life.

Phil:

So if you got into a situation where there's an emotional distress, you didn't turn to drugs.

Matt:

And a lot of my stuff was when I was using drugs is to just be numb to the whole situation. Yeah. And pretty much avoid reality. Yeah. But it didn't avoid it just pushed it off and made it worse, you know? And, um,

Toni:

and the drugs were available to him in prison. Yeah. You know, so he could've, my, my

Matt:

first day in prison, a dude walked up to me with a big pill bottle full of ice, which is meth. Another form of meth In pill form? No. It was a pill bottle. He just had a pill bottle. Kept it in. I gotcha. And, uh, he walked up and he was like, yeah, get on your feet. I said, I don't want that. He said, you ain't gotta do it, just sell it. Get on your feet. I said, how about you sell it? Gimme half the money. You know,

Toni:

like he could have backpedaled, at any point in time and fell right back into that hole. And he was very determined.

Matt:

I just, I didn't wanna be the same POS that I was when I went to prison.

Phil:

You wanted to make a better life,

Matt:

right? I wanted to be better and do better. Yeah. And um, one thing that I started telling myself every day when I was in prison, his failure is not an option.

Phil:

Where did that mental fortitude come from for you? Was it there all your life? You just tapped into it or like, did someone help you to define that or just God

Matt:

it was me?

Phil:

Yeah.

Matt:

Or like, it had to have been God bro, because truthfully, if it was me, I would've been on the same dumb stuff throughout life. But I think seeing the hurt on my mom the week before I got locked up that I taught with her and stuff, and they done kicked her door into looking for me and stuff, and it wasn't

Toni:

just affecting him anymore. He realized that now

Phil:

you saw how it was hurting your mom and others, it was affecting

Toni:

everybody else around you. And I just

Matt:

got tired, man. For real. Being in the street life so long, doing so much drugs and doing this and doing that, running from the police, not having nowhere stable to live, it just, it gets hard, it's stressful.

Toni:

It's mentally exhausting. It really is. Because Matthew will tell you, like, before we started our relationship, Matthew lived out of a book bag. He was never Wow. Someplace long enough years. I lived out

Matt:

of a book bag, man. I never stayed. That's how you run

Phil:

fast, huh? Right. You grabbed a bag and run. Exactly. I

Matt:

never stayed nowhere over two weeks. like one of my brothers, him and his the girl he was with at the time, they told me like, man, you can stay here. Never stayed longer than two weeks. I'll wake up the next morning, I'll be gone.

none:

Wow.

Matt:

Anywhere I stayed, I never stayed more than two weeks, lived out of a bull bag and I never unpacked.

none:

Wow.

Matt:

And when I came home, he's not

Toni:

allowed to own a book bag now at all. No book bags in your marriage? No, none at all.

Matt:

Um, but I just got tired, man. For real. Um, so you

Phil:

stayed faithful, you said? No to the opportunities to use to I did.

Matt:

Yeah. And, uh, since I've been home from prison, I've been around it. Like my friend that's in prison now, he was real bad into addiction, but it was my best friend. Been my best friend for a long time. And, um, he knew that he was in addiction that I was trying to do. Right. And when I first came home from prison, uh, we talked to him on the phone, both of us. And he told me, he was like, just stay away from me, bro. I ain't no good. Wow. And uh, I told him, I said, I ain't gonna stay away. I'm gonna help you. And I've been trying to, it didn't work. You know, he got caught up, went to prison, but. I've been around it and folks are doing it right in front of me. It doesn't bother me. Like I'm past that point in my life that I'm just looking at the people now that use drugs and not saying that I'm any better than the next persons, but my situation is better now.

none:

Yeah.

Matt:

I'm just looking at the people that still use the drugs and put their self and their kids and their families through that every day. And I'm like, how do you keep living in this rut? You know, you, you say that you want better, but you can't do better if you're still living in the same rut. If you want better than, do better get off and go do it. You know?

Toni:

And once you get to a certain point, it's very hard. It becomes very hard to have empathy, because you know what you went through and what you did to get clean and you know the things that you survived. So sometimes it's hard to hear, I can't do it, I can't do this. And it's like

Matt:

I see people out here talking about, oh, I relapsed and I did this and I did that. Okay. Was it your first time around it? Was it your first time? Relapsing? That's understandable because you just put yourself in a situation where you didn't know how your body, your mind, and this stuff was gonna react. That's a relapse. 10, 11, 12, 13 times. That's not relapse, that's choice. And you choose to do that. So if, if you don't wanna relapse for 13, 14 times, don't put yourself in a situation. You have to change where you've got a

Phil:

choice. Learn from those mistakes and choose better. I

Matt:

mean, one or two times. Yeah. First time you relapse, take of time you want. See how strong you are. If you relapse the second time, the third, fourth, fifth, and all own up. However many times you claim you relapsed was a choice. You chose to put yourself in that type of situation. And if the situation brought it up yourself upon you where you wasn't expecting, you've got a choice to leave, not sit there. So that's a choice that you make. I've been in situations, I've chose to stay in a situation where I've seen it and it doesn't bother me because I'm past that point in my life. I want better and I wanna be better. I wanna do better.

Toni:

He has too much to lose. Now, before Matthew didn't, like he had already lost everything

Matt:

since I've been home from prison. Okay. I got released from prison April the first of 2020. I got released from prison and went to a halfway house for six months. I got released from a halfway house on October 9th, 2020. since I've been home, I got my license back after 17 years. So where'd you go from the

Phil:

halfway house?

Matt:

I went to my mom's. Okay.

Toni:

Phoenix City. Okay. Yeah. Um.

Matt:

When I got out of the halfway house, I was on You got put on probation. You had five years, had five years at extensive supervised probation, meaning I had to at least talk to my probation officer every week and see him twice a month.

Toni:

And that was federal and state he was on. Right. I was on state probation as well.

Matt:

Yeah. And, uh, my state probation officer pop up at the house anytime. My federal probation officer, he will too. He, he'd come to my job, everything.

Toni:

but his federal probation officer, John Meredith. He was the first one to ever treat Matthew like he was a human being. A lot of the times, you know, they wear that badge, they wear that vest and you're just a criminal to them. Yeah. You know,

Matt:

he didn't treat me like that. He treated me like I was a human being and I respected him for that.

Toni:

And he made life so easy for us. We were so blessed to

Phil:

get So when did, when did Tony come into the picture?

Matt:

Uh, I was in prison when me and her got back together.

Phil:

Really Like y'all letters or phone calls or like,

Matt:

she had came to town and, uh, she seen my brother and one of the stores in. Uh, she was like, I wanna see, uh, your sister. And they, so she went over to their house. So you guys

Phil:

were as kids, you were friends, like you knew each other? I

Toni:

knew. I met Matthew when he was 14. I was years old.

Phil:

Okay.

Toni:

14. And I was 18. Yeah.

none:

Oh,

Toni:

yeah. But I was best friends with his sister. Okay. At the time, and, um, I always thought Matthew was so adorable, but he was so much younger than me at the time, you know, so it was just like, we were all cool. We were all friends. We, we hung out at the skating center like it was a long time ago, really long time ago. But, um, yeah, it was 2019. I was living in Florida. I was at the tail end of a very unhealthy and toxic 23 year relationship. I had two kids of my own who were the same age as his kids by, fate may have it. And, um, we had come up here to Columbus for a weekend visit and I ran into his brother and I was like, Hey, I wanna see your sister. I haven't seen her in a while. So we wound up going to where they were living at the time, and, um. I went and I saw his brother, his sister. It was the first time I had seen his mom in over 20 years, you know. Wow. And when I went to visit, Jessica was like, Hey, Matt's on the phone. He wants to talk to you. Really? Yeah. So I was talking to him and stuff. Now mind you, I hadn't seen him or nothing in about 20 years.'cause I left and moved to Florida and

Phil:

for this other relationship with this other guy. Yeah.

Toni:

Yeah. So I'm talking to him and I'm like, Hey, come zig me. I wanna see you. And he was like, girl, I'm Federal Correctional Institute. And I was like, okay, well I'll write you as soon as I get home. Wow. And he was like, okay. So I got home on a Sunday and I went to work Monday. And while I was at work, I got on the the prison board website, federal Prison Board, FBOP. And I looked up Matthew Hand and there were two individuals that popped up same age and everything what that were in federal prison. So I had to call his sister and I was like, Hey, what's your brother's middle name? So I know which one I'm writing to.

Phil:

Don't you say loud. I won't say

Toni:

out loud, but Yeah. You don't like your

Phil:

middle name. I do. I love his middle name. It's a secret. It ain't for everybody.

Toni:

But, um, yeah, I wrote him like, as soon as I got home and we just phone calls, emails, you know, and then what amazed me,

Matt:

Federal prison. I hadn't seen my kids in 12 years. She brought my youngest boy of the two to see me for the first time in 12 years. So you, you were connected to

Toni:

His mother's mother made the visit happen.

Matt:

My boys wanted to reach out to me and find me. And so their mom reached out to, my mom, found out I was in prison and stuff. But for everything to happen, like it did, she brought my mom and she brought my, my youngest boy to see me for the first time in 12 years.

Phil:

How old was he at that point

Matt:

of 15? 14. 14.

Phil:

So Jessica and your 14-year-old son, what was what's No,

Toni:

Jessica's his sister.

Phil:

Jessica's your sister, okay. Right. So Jessica's the one that that reaped, that connected to, yeah.

Toni:

Yeah. It was because of my friendship with her that we wound up reconnecting. You know, it was just like, it's so weird because to look back at it now, like everything just fell into place. It was like one thing after another just kept happening. And But, um, I was like, yeah, like two months in I told him, I was like, I love you. And I was like, wait, not in a weird, crazy stalker way or anything like that. I was like, it was a weird,

Matt:

crazy way.

Toni:

I was like, I just, I love your vibe. I love your spirit. Like I could tell you're such a good person. And it's just like, you know, I would sit there after we hung up the phone and stuff, and it's just like, what are you doing? You're like, Tony, what am I doing? Yeah. Tony, what are you doing? Like, he's in prison. You're going from the fire to the frying pan. Like this is not gonna end well for you.

Phil:

So you, you realize you were in a place of just bad life choices. Yeah. And you're like, oh, this is just the next pool. Oh, very poor life

Toni:

choices. Yeah. And um, it was just like, you know, well, we'll just see where it goes. Whatever. No big deal. Because Matthew's gonna come home, Matthew's gonna get back in the streets. He's gonna, you know, wind up back on drugs. And so he was

Phil:

convinced he was in a better life going, but you weren't convinced that that's what was me.

Matt:

That's what's so amazing. Everybody doubted me.

Toni:

It's not so much doubting him. Okay. But I've known it's the reality that has been for the past two decades. I know plenty of people who have gone to jail, gone to prison, and guys are really smooth talkers. Like, I know ladies listening to me can vouch for this. When they're in jail and they need you, they can say all the right things at all the right time. Wow. And they, guys are just smooth talkers and Matthew is very charismatic. Matthew know. Why don't you use some big words? Because I have a big vocabulary. Yeah. Matthew is very charming and, um,

Phil:

I think there's some folks listening that probably could. Take heart and listen hard about that. Smooth talking. Uh, yeah,

Toni:

be careful. Yeah. Like I was very guarded, you know, like I had no intention of

Matt:

the only thing that I haven't done that I've promised her or told her while I was in prison. The only thing that I haven't done is a seafood. I'm not doing it. Yeah. He won't even, I'm not. So

Phil:

you kinda started pursuing her while you guys were having phone calls and writing letters. No,

Toni:

actually he, he said to me in one of his letters, he was like, Hey, find me a pen pal. You know, somebody that I can write to and stuff. And I was like I'll find somebody for your cellmate, but I think I'm gonna keep you to myself for a little while. Told you it was that crazy.

Matt:

Yeah. But like throughout the letters and the emails and the visits, phone calls and stuff we talked about different things that we would do in life and stuff. And she's like, do you like seafood? I'm like, yeah, I like shrimp. You know, shrimp and crab. And she's like, no, seafood. And I was like, I'll try anything once

Phil:

You bet you won't.

Toni:

That's a lie. Yeah, man. They eat

Matt:

crazy stuff. Octopus and muscles and

Toni:

Yeah. He won't try. Yeah. You see that? Look,

Matt:

fish is seafood. See,

Toni:

I grew up very differently than Matthew. Like I grew up in New York. Um, they

Matt:

grew up Catholic though, so they, on Christmas, Italian, they do like the, Feast

Toni:

of the Seven Fishes for Christmas Eve and like I grew up very

Matt:

cultured, waffle House. I grew up very cultured,

Toni:

I mean anything. We'll try anything at least once. We are not scared at all. Like, I

Matt:

did try, uh, calamari and it had a good flavor. I'm a texture guy though, and it's real chewy. Like I can't even chew gum. It is chewy. Yeah. Yeah, bro. I can't even chew gum. Wow. Because it's chewy. You have to keep chewing and chewing it chewy. And I'm just like, I don't have enough tea for this man.

Phil:

Wow. So this is a good moment to just give us the, the short version, Tony, of kind of you in the beginning and coming up and just, just a short version of kind of your life to bring up to the point where now you got, you connect with Matt. So,

Toni:

I grew up in New York. I was born in California, grew up in New York. Um, there are six of us total. Okay. Broken home. My mom and dad split up when I was like four years old. my brother died of a heroin overdose when I was seven. He was 21 years old. Wow. Was

Phil:

drugs prevalent just throughout your whole family? Yeah.

Toni:

My mother was an addict. my dad was somewhat of an alcoholic. Um, they had a very abusive, toxic relationship in the end. Um, my mother also was in a lesbian relationship when I was growing up and in New York in the late eighties, early nineties, that was taboo. It wasn't as prevalent as it is now. Nobody talked about it, I got made fun of a lot because of that situation. So when Tony was backed into its corner, Tony came out swinging. You know, I grew up fighting a lot. I was a fighter. You know, and so I, I actually left New York when I turned 16. I moved to North Carolina to live with my dad.

Phil:

'cause you were just fed up with what was going on. Yeah,

Toni:

I just, me and my mom had a very unhealthy relationship.

Phil:

Were you using as No, no.

Toni:

I mean, smoking weed. Military matters. Yeah. I didn't get introduced to other drugs until I had moved to Columbus. I was a little bit older. I was in my early twenties.

Phil:

Was your dad in Columbus? Um, is that Yeah,

Toni:

because my dad was a tattoo artist.

Phil:

Wow. So, so he had left New York? Yeah.

Toni:

My dad, well my dad left New York. He lived in New Jersey. He first, we lived in North Carolina. Yeah. Anywhere where there's a major military base.

none:

Okay.

Toni:

That's where my dad's business was, because he's a tattoo artist, so, yeah, that makes sense. He wound up moving here. He worked on Victory Drive with Falcon, who is a very well-known tattoo artist. Like they ran Columbus in the late eighties, early nineties. So we moved here because of the business from Fort Benning. A lot of rangers, you know, my dad had a lot of friends here. And I, it was my early twenties with my first ex-husband that it, it's always because of somebody of the opposite sex, you know? It was like, okay, let's start doing drugs. Basically cocaine was at a party, cocaine was at a party. It's your own person. You make your own choice. Yeah, you're right. But I'm saying it's always like someone involving the

Phil:

environments, right? You put yourself in a situation where there's an opportunity, right. Or a temptation, and you're, and you just, especially me.

Toni:

cause at that time, I had a bad boy magnet stuck to my forehead. So it was like the worst you were, the more attracted to you. I am.

And that is the end of part three of Matt and Tony's story. Tony will go deeper into her story next week and she'll really will talk. Tony will go deeper into her story next week and she will share. Many things that were root issues and challenges in her life, which helped to contribute to the fact that she just made bad life decisions. She'll talk about her self image and, uh, so many other things, and it's gonna be very insightful, and I think you're gonna enjoy it. We'll get to hear a little bit more as Tony concludes her story. Next week you'll hear more about how Matt and Tony's relationship just blossomed. F beginning with that pen pal relationship and just going into so much more. You'll want to be back next week and we look forward to being with you again next week. I hope you have a great rest of your day today and a great rest of your week. God bless you.

Phil Shuler:

We look forward to being with you again next week as we share another testimony about the power and the goodness of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. if you are someone listening to this podcast that loves to hear these stories of the great things that God is doing in changing people's lives for the better, and if you would like to be a part of that work, please reach out to us You can reach us at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus, Georgia, 31,904. You can call us at seven oh six three two two. 3 7, 7 3, or you can email us at info@safehouse-ministries.com.

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone)-2:

Thank you so much for being with us this week for the renew restore and rejoice podcast of safe house ministries, we pray that God will bless you this week. And we look forward to having you back with us again next week for a new episode.