Renew. Restore. Rejoice. A SafeHouse Ministries Podcast

"If You Want To Be Better, You Gotta Do Better" - The Conclusion of Matt and Toni's Story, Packed with Truth and Wisdom!

• Phil Shuler • Season 3 • Episode 4

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I love this phrase that Matt uses as he talks about when things turned around for his own life, and the only way things till turn around for the better for any of us.  Better choices means a better life, and there are no better choices any of us could ever make than the choices that align with God's truth.  This is what led Matt and Toni both out of the darkness, and what has given them a wonderful marriage and blessed life today.

Phil Shuler:

HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the Safe House Ministries podcast, where we share stories of the power of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. Safe House Ministries is based out of Columbus, Georgia, and we are a ministry that exists to love and serve people who have been affected by addiction, homelessness, and incarceration. I'm your host, Phil Shuler, the Director of Development for Safe House Ministries here in Columbus, Georgia. Safe House serves over 1, 100 people each month as they transition back into our community. Safe House provides an abundance of services including 213 beds for homeless individuals and families, case management for obtaining job skills and long term employment. Over 300 hot meals every day, free clothing, and so much more. One of the most incredible services that Safe House provides is our free 9 12 month intensive outpatient substance abuse program, which is state licensed, CARF accredited, and has no wait list. Almost 100 percent of individuals staying in our shelters who follow our three phase program become fully employed within a few months. And 68 percent of individuals who stay at least one night with us End up finding work and moving into their own home. Thank you for being with us today and listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoy this week's episode.

Toni:

Yeah. I didn't get introduced to other drugs until I had moved to Columbus. I was a little bit older. I was in my early twenties.

Phil:

Was your dad in Columbus? Um, is that Yeah,

Toni:

because my dad was a tattoo artist.

Phil:

Wow. So, so he had left New York? Yeah.

Toni:

My dad, well my dad left New York. He lived in New Jersey. He first, we lived in North Carolina. Yeah. Anywhere where there's a major military base.

none:

Okay.

Toni:

That's where my dad's business was, because he's a tattoo artist, so, yeah, that makes sense. He wound up moving here. He worked on Victory Drive with Falcon, who is a very well-known tattoo artist. Like they ran Columbus in the late eighties, early nineties. So we moved here because of the business from Fort Benning. A lot of rangers, you know, my dad had a lot of friends here. And I, it was my early twenties with my first ex-husband that it, it's always because of somebody of the opposite sex, you know? It was like, okay, let's start doing drugs. Basically cocaine was at a party, cocaine was at a party. It's your own person. You make your own choice. Yeah, you're right. But I'm saying it's always like someone involving the

Phil:

environments, right? You put yourself in a situation where there's an opportunity, right. Or a temptation, and you're, and you just, especially me.

Toni:

cause at that time, I had a bad boy magnet stuck to my forehead. So it was like the worst you were, the more attracted to you. I am. Seriously. And I think that's because I thought I was so hardcore and gangster at the time when I was 16, 17, 18 years old, you know? Yeah. It started out innocently, cocaine at parties, pills here and there. Mm-hmm. And then when I was with my second ex-husband, which is the 23 year unhealthy toxic relationship that I ran from they had learned how to cook crystal meth. And you know, it was like, oh, we can make all this easy money. Tony's always about the easy money, but then we were cooking enough just to support our habit, you know? And I had already had my son at the time he was about two and like Matthew, it was like days and days and days on end. Hallucinating Wow. Hearing things. Fortunately for me I never got to the point where I was homeless. I never got to the point where I landed myself in prison.

Phil:

You were just with this fella, this second husband for a long time in a toxic was addiction of it. You know,

Toni:

we just, we liked getting high and um, I never wound up losing my kids or anything like that, but the relationship had become so bad and so abusive because of the drugs,

Phil:

physical, mental, all of

Toni:

it.

Phil:

Yeah,

Toni:

all of it, for sure. And, um, I remember just praying to God like, get me outta here. Get me outta here. Something has got to change. Something's gotta give. And it was probably about. Two, three months later, um, May 13th, 2005, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter and I stopped cold Turkey.

Phil:

You just quit the drugs? Yeah.

Toni:

I never I never went to a 12 step program. I never went to a meeting. In that moment I had my priority was protect my daughter. Just mothers protect the child. Yeah. Love. I always say that I was born to be a mom. I was definitely born to be a mother. My, my kids were always enough. Like they say, you can't get clean for other people. You have to wanna do it yourself. And for me it was always my kids. You know? So I got pregnant, stopped cold Turkey and that was it. We left and went to Florida. We moved to Florida. Now he was still using Yeah, he was still using at the time. So, and

Phil:

he was the toxic, he was the am abuser of the Yeah.

Toni:

And we actually together moved to Florida and we lived in Florida and. From my understanding he got clean when we were in Florida, you know, for a long time. A very long time. But there had already been so much damage done in the relationship. So did, did he stop being

Phil:

as abusive when he got clean? Um,

Toni:

no. We were just very at that's what I'm saying. At that point, there was, had been so much damage done, we were just extremely unhealthy together. I'm not gonna knock him in, like he's a decent guy, but we weren't good together.

Toni?:

Yeah, it

Toni:

was very, very toxic. Very, very unhealthy. Um, I always justified staying with my kids, needed their mom and dad. When talking to my kids as they were older after I had left, it was, I did more damage to them by staying because of the stuff that they saw growing up or the things that they heard or what we put them through than I would have left had they been younger and not had those memories at the end of the relationship, it was just 2019 I had went through a complete transformation. Um, I had had gastric bypass surgery. I was, at the time when I had the surgery, 436 pounds.

none:

Wow.

Toni:

Uh, yeah. And in a two year time span, I got down to like one 70. So it was like, like I went through a lot mentally and emotionally and I can't

Phil:

even imagine that. Yeah. That

Toni:

was crazy. My mom used to always tell me, like, I could tell you to leave all day, but at the end of the day, you're not gonna leave until you, you've had enough. You know? And I literally remember waking up one morning in August and just being like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm almost 40 years old. I don't wanna be 60 years old. And my entire life has passed me by, you know, so at 40 years old, I took my 16 and my 14-year-old daughter, and I moved back in with my parents and that was a. And where

Phil:

were they living?

Toni:

In Florida. Okay. Yeah. We moved into their three bedroom little townhouse. Wow. There was six of us living in the house, you know, so that was a very humbling experience, you know? And then during this time I had, I had this guy, pretty much promising me the world from prison. And it's like, and it sounded

Phil:

so good.

Toni:

Yeah, it sounds really good. And my mom was like, I don't know, Tony Ann, I don't know what you're doing. You're like, he's

Phil:

gonna get me out of this mess. Right. It's gonna, he's yeah.

Toni:

Right. You know? So, like I said, we started talking in March of 2019, and in July, I got in contact with his mom and I was like, Hey, let's go see Matthew

Phil:

to visit him.

Toni:

Yeah. She hadn't seen him How long had it been? Two years.

none:

Yeah.

Toni:

Yeah. So was

Phil:

this when you brought his son as well? No. So

Toni:

me and her went first by ourselves in July. Yeah. And after the first visit I was all in, I was completely smitten with He had you hooked? Yeah, he had me hooked. And did you

Phil:

know that Matt, did you know you had her hooked or was that the intention, or you, is this her, her crazy stalk stalk that just latched on? I

Matt:

think that's what it was. No. Like over the few months that we have been talking and stuff, like, uh, we had gotten serious about doing things and yeah. Truthfully, I'm just like. Get out, whatever. Going about my business. Over the time that I was incarcerated I fell in love with her.

none:

Yeah,

Toni:

it was great. I think because

Phil:

she won you over.

Toni?:

Yeah.

Toni:

But I think it was great because we were only able to call and email and text. There was no physical intimacy. That's a, you know, that

Phil:

messes so many people up. It does. It does. It

Toni:

does. But we didn't have that opportunity, so we really got to know each other and who we were, where we were, what we wanted outta life. Yeah. So I think that, again, him being in prison and that lack of physical connection gave us the opportunity to really like, okay, where do we want it? Where do we want this to go? What are Yeah. You're able to start

Phil:

expectations in a healthier place.

Toni:

Yeah. Yeah. Because during that time, you know, my life was falling apart. He was trying to rebuild his, and it's like he was my best friend. He was my best friend. I could, and you know, it's weird because

Phil:

you were just, you were shearing your heart that deep things in your heart.

Toni:

I, I can honestly say with 100% honesty that I have told Matthew every single dark, dirty secret that there is to know about me because. He made me wanna do better.

none:

Yeah.

Toni:

You know, I didn't want there to be any secrets. Nothing, no holds barred. Uh, he made me wanna be, you can't unlock new doors with old keys. Yeah. There's a lot of

Phil:

truth in this saying who you share your heart with is who you fall in love with. Yeah.

Toni:

And he was my best friend at the time, and I think that friendship was the best foundation for what we have now.

Phil:

Yeah. And, and it sounds like Matt was truthful and a just a he was true and on the right path and, and a good person that you could share your heart with.'cause he would, he would help you to get to a better place.

Toni:

Yeah, exactly.

Phil:

Unlike Old s Samson, he shared his heart with Delilah and, uh Right. Didn't quite turn out, turned out too good for him. Not so good for him. But

Toni:

yeah, and it was just, you know, so I came with his mom in July and I visited him and then in August I jumped on a plane and flew back to Memphis to visit him. And then in November, his ex-wife allowed me and his mother to bring his son. Wow.

Phil:

So what was that like, Matt, like to see your son after so long? had you communicated with him or was it like a shock? Total surprise. I got the talk

Matt:

with them a little bit. they had came up to see me once, my mom, my ex-wife, and my two boys had came to see me when I first got to prison. My ceiling got caught with today.

Phil:

Well, they

Matt:

was taking us both to the shoe and put us both on restriction, like from our phone, our visits, and our commissary The thing is, he took the charge, it was his, I shouldn't have got in no trouble

none:

well, they

Matt:

never took my restriction for my visitation off.

Toni?:

And so

Matt:

they drove all the way from Phoenix City to Memphis, Tennessee and couldn't see me.

Toni?:

So I had

Matt:

been in communication with'em some, and uh, I didn't know she was bringing them to see me though, until they were already in Memphis. I had talked to her the night before and she was like, Hey, I'm up here, uh, I'm gonna come see you tomorrow. And I'm like, okay. And I heard my mom's voice in the background. I said, who's with you? And she was like, your mom. And I was like, okay, who is she talking to if you're on the phone? And she's like, you'll see. He's so nosy.

Toni:

She was like, you cannot surprise him with nothing.

Matt:

She was like, you'll see. So I'm like, no, you tell me.'cause I don't like surprises like that, especially in the place where I'm at. You have to tell me. And so she told me that she was bringing my son Taylor to see me. And uh,

Toni:

Matthew always says that that's the moment when he knew Yeah. That, that you and him were gonna, she boom, me and him were gonna

Matt:

be, if she would go outta her way to bring my mom and my son to see me, I knew that she, you'd be a fool not to, to

Phil:

not to capitalize on that right girl.

Matt:

But I mean, it is been great since I've been outta prison. Like we've had Nicholas, I've got my CDLs I got my regular license after 17 years, and then I've got my CDLs. I was on five years. Did y'all

Phil:

get married pretty quick right after? Yeah.

Toni:

So he came home October of 2020 by the I was still living in Florida at the time. By the end of 2020, me and my kids packed up a U-Haul and moved up here by the end of 2020, I mean the end of October, end of

Matt:

October. By the end of the month, he got out. I got out October the ninth, October 30th, she's moving in. Wow. Yeah.

Toni:

And now were

Phil:

you, were you married or? I was. So you got divorced by that point or? Oh yeah.

Toni:

My divorce was finalized October 14th, 2020. October 30th, 2020, me and my kids packed a U-Haul and moved up here. Wow. Because Matthew couldn't get his probation transferred. And I, I was, yeah. I was, I couldn't stand being away

Matt:

from him anymore. Probation.

none:

Yeah.

Matt:

And so when she moved up, uh, we stayed at my mom's and I knew, like, I'm sleeping on the floor in my mom's room. My mom works third shift at a gas station, but I'm sleeping on the floor in my mom's room because their, their house is small. She's sleeping on the floor right next to me.

Toni:

We

Matt:

struggled. I knew that she, she was, we struggled. She was there with me. You know what I'm saying? She's not there for anything I got.'cause I didn't have nothing. Yeah. You know? But then

Toni:

we moved up to an air mattress, we upgraded,

Matt:

and um, by February the first of 2021, we moved into our own place. Wow. April.

Toni:

No. So Fe Valentine's Day. So this is how our 2021 went. We moved into the place February 1st, February 14th. Matthew proposed April 13th. We found out we were pregnant with Nicholas. May, 2021. We got married. And it was funny when we got married, because we got married the same day, my oldest son was graduating from high school in Florida. So we had the notary come to our house, we signed the marriage license in our dining room, and I gave him a kiss goodbye. He went back to bed and I jumped in the car and drove down to Florida for my son's graduation. Wow. Yeah. And then, so, and then we had Nicholas December 1st, 2021.

Matt:

Wow. And then December 7th, 2022, I got released 10, two years and 10 months early from federal probation.

Toni:

Wow. Yeah. So he had five years. He only had to serve two and a half as

Phil:

they, they saw that you were doing so well. Yeah.

Matt:

Like my, uh, federal probation officer actually went and he wrote a recommendation for me to get released from federal probation and took it to the judge himself. Wow. Like hand delivered it to the judge. And we

Toni:

still to this day, keep in communication with him. He calls and asks about Nicholas, and he's agreed to do Matthew's character letter when he files for his Pardon.

Phil:

That's awesome. You know,

Toni:

but just to see the things that he's accomplished on his own and the things that we've accomplished together, like. It's nothing short of God. That's

Phil:

amazing.

Toni:

It's nothing short of God.

Phil:

So now you guys are doing well, stable. You both are working.

Toni:

Yeah. Good

Phil:

jobs. What, how so what is the kid situation Who's all at the house with you guys? Just Nicholas.

Toni:

Just Nicholas now. Okay. Up until recently his youngest son, Taylor and his girlfriend lived with us. And my son Dominic lives in Tennessee. He's at Middle Tennessee State University. Okay. And my daughter Raylin, um, she moved out on her own the end of last year and she just got engaged. She'll be getting married in 2026.

none:

Wow. And

Toni:

his oldest son, Anthony, lives on his own and does his own thing, so. Okay.

Phil:

Yeah. You guys have pretty good relationships with everybody, not Anthony.

Toni:

Not Anthony, unfortunately with his oldest son. I wish. But

Phil:

he kind of. Because of the years of what happened and

Matt:

I believe that, I also think he holds a grudge against me for being the type of dad I am. With Nicholas?

Toni:

Yeah, because how old is Nicholas? I think he resents that. Think Nicholas will be four. December 1st.

Phil:

Okay. So you're, you're a good dad and he is resentful that you weren't that for him.

Matt:

Right. And I understand, but since I've been home from prison, I've been trying to build a relationship with him and it is just like he's hot headed.

Toni:

I tell Matthew, like, all we can do is pray about it. Like we can't control anybody else's actions or reactions, and I know that it aggravates Matthew, and Matthew gets frustrated and because Matthew can be hotheaded. Anthony had to get it from somewhere. Um, Matthew can be hotheaded too. That's a lot. But it's just like, we just pray about it, that's all. Like, we pray about stuff with all of our kids because Nicholas, Nicholas is gonna be four years old and Nicholas is level three autistic, you know, so we have a lot of challenges and stuff. And I think for Matthew that it's more difficult because Matthew's not only getting to be a father for the first time, really, but now we have a child with special needs. Like I get the

Matt:

experience. All the stuff that a dad does, where I didn't get that before because, and it wasn't because of nobody else. It was'cause of my own choices. Yeah. You know that I didn't get to experience that. Do I regret the choices that I made with my first two kids? I really do. Addiction is nothing to play with but when you choose your addiction over your family or your kids, is bad. Yeah. How long? Addiction don't have a heart either. You know? It doesn't care what it takes from you, who it takes from you. Where it sends you. Like addiction is a disease. Yeah. And a lot of folks don't. They look at it like addiction is just, oh, your choice. I mean, it was your choice to do it, but to get addicted to It's a sickness. It's a disease that it is hard to come out of. I mean, it alters. I know if I can do it though, anybody can.

Toni:

Yeah.

Matt:

You just gotta want it.

Toni:

It definitely alters, you know? I mean, you gotta think with all those chemicals that you're pumping into your body,

Matt:

every chemical from a meth, for meth, every single chemical itself can kill you. But then you mix it all together and you're snoring it or smoking it, shooting it. Wow.

Toni:

I mean there's even things that, I mean, I can't speak for Matthew. I know for me, as far as like mentally memory wise, yeah, I've gotten a little bit older, but there are things that um, I deal with, you know, that I know are residual side effects from when I was in active addiction and the drugs that I would doing. How they took a toll on your body. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And sometimes you don't feel it, until later on down the road, you know, like I have my best friend of 34 years. She was a heroin addict for about seven years, and she got clean and she got sober and she moved to Florida with me. And she was doing really, really good Three years into her sobriety, she had a brain aneurysm and passed away, unfortunately, in 2016. And that is because of what she had put her body through during her active addiction. Wow. You know?

Phil:

Uh, tell me at what point Jesus stepped into each of your lives in a very personal way. Like, like,'cause I know Matt, you shared just kind of growing up, knew about God. You didn't really have a personal relationship with him. But did there come a time when you actually made that choice to receive Jesus as your savior, to, to make it personal, to give your life to him?

Matt:

I think I'm still working on that. Okay.'cause like I said, I have a issue with my faith and I guess it's not really an issue, but it's hard for me sometimes to put my faith into something that I can't see or hear physically. Yeah. I mean, I'm working on it, you know, and things are getting a little easier, a little better. Um, he tells

Toni:

me all the time that I have enough faith for the both of us, you know, because I'm always like, stop stressing. Jamie Lee Pierce, who's my immediate supervisor with Safe House, um, she always says, God didn't bring us this far just to bring us this far. Right. And

Matt:

yeah. And I know I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for him. Yeah. And there's things I know that couldn't be done without his help or his guidance, but I just,

Phil:

you're just not quite all the way there yet. There's things that I question.

Matt:

Yeah. And so for that, with me questioning it, there's, I can't fully commit. Yeah. I get it. Do I believe that he's real? Do I believe that he gave his son for our sins and the things that he does, that he shows us every day that he loves us? And the things like that, yes, I believe that. But with me questioning and doubting certain situations or certain things. I don't think I'm ready to fully commit. it is just something I get that.

Phil:

Well, Tony, how, how did that, when was that time decision made for you? For

Toni:

me, I grew up Catholic. Like my family had us in the church. My grandmother walked around with her rosary beads and her bag of prayers. I, uh, I was christened. I made my communion, I did my penance, my confirmation, all of that. But I never felt like I belonged in the Catholic church. I always had a relationship with God, but never felt like I belonged there. So that steered me away from God for a really, really long time. But honestly, my come to Jesus moment was, asking him to give me a way out, and suddenly I had a way out, and even now, like I tell Matthew all the time, like, it's gonna be okay. Like, he's like, how are you not stressed? How are you not worried about the bills? Because I've seen what he can do. I've seen it, you know, especially like working at the ministry and stuff. Like I have seen some amazing things. I've seen some real hail Mary moments and stuff. That's nothing short of a miracle, I've seen what God's done in his life. I've seen what God, I've seen it. You know, so there is, there is no, no doubt, no questions. I'm like, just give it to God. Just give it to God. We're good. As long as he's the captain at the wheel, I'm good. You and I see with my son, I see with my son every day how he's growing and developing and learning and things that they may have thought that he wouldn't be able to do. And you'll see like I post on Facebook about Nicholas all the time and I'm like, look at God, look at God working in my baby. You know, because he's all I got, my relationship with God at the end of the day is all I got. And without him, none of this would be possible. None of it. Not my marriage, not Nicholas, not the fact that both of my dad just turned 81 years old. He's still mobile and still living on his own and still working. And the fact that him and my mother are both still here with me and I have everything that I once prayed for. I didn't know at the time it was Matthew I was praying for. It was Nicholas. I was praying for, but. All those tears were shed in vain.

none:

Yeah. You

Toni:

know, all that crying out and begging God and he heard me, and I have everything that I prayed for, so

Phil:

That's amazing. Wow. Yeah. So, all right. Lessons, Matt, over the years and all that you've been through and seen, what are some of the key lessons that you would pull out and maybe share for those that are listening?

Matt:

Don't put yourself in an environment you're not comfortable in.

Phil:

Yeah. Don't put yourself in an environment you're not comfortable in.

Matt:

Because

Phil:

if you're not comfortable, you make bad decisions.

Matt:

I don't know, say like you put yourself in a situation or yeah. Put yourself in a situation and you're okay, and then something happens and you're not comfortable. If you're not comfortable, you gotta leave.

none:

Yeah.

Matt:

Because then either something bad could happen or the situation could turn bad for you.

Phil:

Yeah. There's an awareness piece to that. Like I think, I think all of us, God gives us the ability to recognize that maybe that sixth sense, something's not right. I'm not comfortable. This is right. This has a potential of. Taking me in a wrong path, what do I do at my click? It's just sometimes, either, number one, we're not aware, we don't have that awareness or to recognize, okay, these are some yellow flags, red flags. Right. I should be paying attention.

Matt:

Right. And

Phil:

then maybe sometimes we just, we are aware and we just don't care.

Matt:

Like, just be truthfully, be more aware of the,

Toni:

be mindful of the company you keep. Yeah. Pretty much is what I'm trying to say. That's huge. I mean that's

Phil:

so, that really is like, as I hear people share their stories so often it begins with hanging out with the people that Yeah. Really they shouldn't have been hanging out with. I mean, it, it reminds me of, uh, I dunno if you guys are familiar with the story of the prophet Elisha. He was coming out of a town and there was this group of kids that started making fun of him. Mm-hmm. Like they, I think the Bible records her talking, making fun of him before being bald. God, thou bald man. Yeah. There's making fun of him. And he curses the children. Right. And the Bible says that either one or two, she bears come out of the woods and kill the children. And I, I think about that story and I think probably not all the kids were actually taking part in making fun of him,

Toni:

but they all, but there were some that

Phil:

were just hanging out with people they shouldn't have been hanging out with and they got hit with the consequences. Yeah.

Toni:

Like I remember one of our place, wrong time, one of our leaders one time. At one of our meetings had given an analogy about rotten fruit and how if it's in a bowl with other good fruit, eventually it's gonna turn

Phil:

spreads fast.

Toni:

Yeah. It's gonna turn that other fruit bad. And it, that made me really think like, wow, you don't really think about it. It's really a lot of it is the company that you keep For sure. Yeah.

Phil:

Which speaks to the wisdom of Matt's dad when he was like, you're not going over there.

Toni:

You know, you surround yourself with positive people who are chasing that relationship with God who are successful and, I'll say, well, to do financially, you know. it rubs off on you. Yeah. And suddenly you want that. You, not that you have that jealousy or, envy, but just it

Phil:

influences you.

Toni:

Yeah. It influences you, it inspires you. Like, I wanna do better, I wanna be better. I wanna, you know. Yeah. So, but if you have, if you're surrounded by people who are always negative and always getting high and, you know, just living that day to day, you're like, oh all right, well this is as good as it gets, you know? Yeah.

Phil:

Uh, other key lessons,

Toni:

give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Because even at the darkest time, even at your worst, at your lowest, God really does love you. He really does. And he really does hear you. And although one thing that I had to learn the hard way, things aren't always gonna happen on our time when we want them to, when we think they should. But there is a plan for you. There is a plan for you. He hasn't forsaken you. He hasn't forgotten about you. And you know, just keep going. Keep going. Don't give up because your time is coming. Your time is coming.

Matt:

it, one thing I've always said since being in prison and stuff is if you wanna be better, you gotta do better.

none:

Yeah. You know,

Matt:

so doing, doing better ain't go out here, going to do the same thing I. Go hang out with this person or that person.

Phil:

So, uh, say that one more time. If you wanna be better, you better. If you

Matt:

wanna be better, you gotta do better. You can't go out here and continue to do the same thing. And it's fair to be a better person or get better results without making a better choice.

Toni:

It's like the definition of insanity.

Matt:

Yeah.

Toni:

You know, you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting things to turn out differently. And when it comes to those demons, it's not going to, it's never gonna end well, you're never gonna have control of it. You're never gonna be able to tame that monkey on your back.

Matt:

And don't be afraid to ask for help. That's one thing I never did is ask for help. And it just, it takes you so far down the rabbit hole that you can't see no other way. Yeah. Either death or prison. And that's what I tell a few people that I know that still do drugs is like, man, you got one or two choices. You got a prison center, prison sentence or a casket. Choose your choice.

Toni:

Yeah. Those streets don't love you. Yeah. Those streets don't. Your family loves you. Your family loves you, and they need you. Jesus

Phil:

loves you.

Toni:

Jesus loves you. Yes, he does.

Phil:

Okay. Wow. Any other key lessons you guys would point out? How about, how about marriage success tips? Just say, yes ma'am. Feed him.

Toni:

Feed him. Well make sure you know how to cook. You know what I told my daughter who's newly engaged and stuff, marriage advice is like, I always try to help ask Matthew, can I help you? It's not always about I love you. Yeah. He knows I love him, but when I say, can I help you? It's like mentally, physically, you know, Matthew's very prideful. Matthew will not ask for help. And I, that, that might be a male

Phil:

gender trait. It is, but I'm a little bit of the same way too.

Toni:

You know, like I have a really bad habit of putting on that superwoman cape and exhausting myself beyond repair by the end of the night. Yeah. You know? But, but can I help you?

Phil:

I love that because that essentially is love in action. Yeah. That's showing, and

Matt:

actions definitely speak louder than words. And another thing is don't get angry and go to bed. Tomorrow's not promised to nobody. Yeah. Or leave the house. Don't leave the house when you're angry. Don't go to bed angry. Because you never know what's gonna happen, and don't fight and argue about it. If you disagree and it turns into an argument, walk away, calm down and come back and talk later.

Toni:

One thing I learned to do differently with Matthew than I did in my previous relationships, honestly if you ever see me on social media, I boast about Matthew all the time. How amazing. How wonderful he is. He's so, which he is, but I don't take any of our dirty laundry to social media either anymore, which is a big issue that a lot of people anymore. Anymore. I don't, I've I learned that lesson. I'm a work in progress.

Matt:

I don't like drama. I don't like, there's a lot of truth in that. So I don't like social media or the world to know what I have going on behind my closed doors. If we have a issue, that issue is between me and her. We need to sit down and talk about it. And if we can't without arguing, then we're gonna come back later and talk about it.

Toni:

I mean, we've, we've even gone to counseling at the Pastoral Institute, which they are lifesavers over there, not because she finally figured

Matt:

out she stays on the phone too much.

Toni:

Not because our marriage is bad. We just have

Matt:

certain things that we need to learn how to work through and how to make better for us. Yeah.

Toni:

And that's where the, it's, it doesn't hurt to ask for help because we wanna communicate effectively and efficiently because this is it for us.

Phil:

You're in it for life. This is no divorce. No. You are together permanently. That's just like what God said we're supposed to be in know, like one man, one woman forever. Yeah.

Matt:

That's these things right here.

Phil:

Cell phones horrible. They're worse. Yeah. They could get us in so many trouble. So much trouble drama.

Matt:

No, not only that. There's a chance they made you wake up, you go to work, you spend eight hours at work, you come home, you gotta be in bed to get a good night's sleep by just say 10 o'clock. So you got from what, five o'clock until 10 o'clock, which is five hours of the day. You either you cook dinner most time if you're a woman or even a man, you got time to cook dinner. Yeah, Matthew

Toni:

can cook.

Matt:

You got time to cook dinner and then eat. Shower. If you got kids, you got stuff to do with them. But how much of that time are you doing that on your phone? Out of that five hours that you got? Yeah. How many hours are you on the phone?

Toni:

We get so wrapped up in watching videos, like we'll just be scrolling through watching videos and then it's like, dang, we hadn't spent any time together. You know? Like you have to make your partner a priority. Don't you have to.

Matt:

Don't spend all your time on your phone. If you're gonna do anything on your phone, get something that you and your husband or your wife or your boyfriend, girlfriend, partner, whoever you got. Get something on there that can do together. You can do together and learn something about your partner. Like we have an app on our

Toni:

phone called Gottman Cards and they're like relationship conversation starters. They have helped us a lot.

Matt:

Wow. Yeah. Awesome. You, you can ask your partner a question and let them answer it, and then you answer it as well. And it's a good conversation starter because you're trying to get to know stuff about them, but also at the same time they get to know stuff about you. Yeah. And if that's what you wanna do is play on your phone, be on your phone, do it together. Yeah. It's like, I'll go home and I'll throw mine on the charger. I don't care about that phone, but hers, she stuck over there like,

Toni:

yeah. And then when I'm at home it's like, well, hold on.

Phil:

Yeah. Somebody text. That's a lot of, so you guys have shared quite a bit of really solid marriage advice. Like first and foremost, beginning with the fact of when you decide to be married, it's for life. There's no consideration of divorce there. You, there's, you're just, you're together. Divorce. And that comes from Genesis and the, and just,

Toni:

but I believe too, when God is at the forefront of it on air, it's completely like I've been divorced. Twice.

Matt:

Me too.

Toni:

He's been divorced twice. In those other relationships. God was not at the center of it. He wasn't at the foundation. It wasn't a, a godly relationship, so yeah, you could say divorce is not an option. That would be kind of hypocritical of me because I have been divorced twice and stuff. But now you wanna

Phil:

do it God's way. It's a

Toni:

completely different, like it was all my

Phil:

way, the, that, the wrong way. But now it's God's way didn't work.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. You know, if our always worked, we will still be with the first person we was married

Phil:

to. Yeah. Yeah. But I love that though. It's because things just, they turn out better when you do it God's way. Yeah, they just do.

Toni?:

For sure.

Phil:

There's a crazy article in the Wall Street Journal about a year ago they had done some research and it was, the Federal Reserve was stumped. The Wall Street Journal. They were like, we can't figure this out. Right? And, and it was just simply looking at net worth. They looked at it, the net worth of a single person, the average in the country, about$6,000. Mm-hmm. Right. Net worth of two people living together. Just a male female.

Toni?:

Right.

Phil:

Essentially like a married relationship, everything, they're just not technically married.

Toni?:

Right.

Phil:

And their net worth was about 16,000, 17,000. And then they looked at same scenario, been together for the same number of same amount of time living together, but two married individuals, their net worth worth was$64,000 on average. And the only difference was being married. There's so much that goes into the mindset, the like, so much, and it just, it's fascinating.

Toni:

My whole perception, and worldly views and stuff has changed dramatically, in comparison to where I was just 10 years ago. Yeah. And it's so much better.

Phil:

I love your phrase, can I help you? How can I help you? Can I help you? I mean, that's, I think that's huge. Those are probably the three

Toni:

most important words, you know? Wow. Because especially for a man, they, they men take the weight of the world on their shoulders, the weight of their family, the weight of their careers. I mean, not to say that women don't, but men carry a lot more burdens I think, that go unspoken, so as long as he knows like, Hey, I'm here. I got you. Whatever you need, you know, we do this together. That's, that's our thing. It's us against the world.

Matt:

That's right. You gotta do it together, man. You can't just, you can't go and do something to expect your partner or whoever you're with to be like, okay, I got you. No, you gotta do it together. And you gotta know that you're doing it together with the help of the other one. Because if you get out there and you try to swim on your own and nobody's there to help you, drown. Yeah. and trust your partner. Yeah. Trust them. Believe in them and respect. Awesome. Respect is a big thing in our household. Like if you can't respect the other one, then why are you even talking?

Phil:

Yeah. That's so good. Craziest story ever from your past.

Toni:

Yeah, we can't talk about that. You can share that. You can share. Oh, you can share, yeah. Okay. Craziest.

Phil:

So, yeah, I guess there's some stuff you couldn't really share, but

Toni:

Yeah. There's, or could

Phil:

you share it in a, in a, uh, PG manner and not, uh, probably not. So

Toni:

I was living in North Carolina one time and I was about 15 years old. I had left a party and I was completely intoxicated and inebriated and decided at two o'clock in the morning, I was going to walk the railroad tracks home. And in my drunken stupor, I actually came face to face with a moose. Wow. A wild moose. And he proceeded to chase me down the railroad tracks. Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of crazy. One time we hit a deer in the car and we got out of the car to check and make sure the deer was, whether it was alive or dead, and the deer jumped up and chased us around the car back in. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple of them that was, uh,

Phil:

wow.

Toni:

Pretty gnarly. Matt, you ever

Phil:

been chased by an animal? no.

Toni:

You know, I went to Canada one time, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, and we were at this place called Mount Royale. And in, as you're walking out the exit, which is outdoors, there's all these magnolia trees and stuff, and there are hundreds of swirls and they literally will chase you. Wow. Right out of the park. Yeah. They are not afraid of humans. Sounds like a horror movie. It is. It's kind of, it's like the birds, you know, the Alfred Hitchcock, the birds. It is, it's kind of scary. Yeah. All my crazy stories somehow involve animals.

Phil:

Do you guys have animals in the house?

Matt:

We have a rescue pit that we rescue. She comes in at nighttime? Yeah, she has her own bed and so rescue and like daytime, she stay outside. I have my

Toni:

cat that I've had probably, she's Bravo's about nine years old now. And then my mom has a kitten, well it's a cat now, but it's a kitten that I actually rescued from out in front of Safe House. Wow. When I first started working here, it was pouring down rain and this little kitten was behind the garbage cans and you should have never brought it in at the front engine to Safe House and a cat is Hudson. Tim Hudson had brought it out a can of tuna fish and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna take lunch guys. And I grabbed the kitten and I threw it in my car and drove it home to my mom. Yeah, my mom still has it. Wow.

Phil:

You mentioned the cat at Safe House. Mm-hmm. So, and I don't think we've talked about this, but you're the bookkeeper for Safe House. I

Toni:

am bookkeeper administrator, personal assistant.

Phil:

Awesome. Yeah. Doing a lot of good things. Yeah.

Toni:

And it's crazy too, and this is another way I've seen God intervene. This was a really big moment in my life because I had had Nicholas and I was looking for just something part-time to get myself out of the house like. Paw Patrol and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse just were not cutting me, driving me crazy anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I needed some adult interaction. I needed to talk to somebody who was gonna talk back. So my friend Helen, who was working at Safe House at the time, um, she was like, Hey, they're looking for somebody to run the front desk at Safe House, you know, she was like, if you wanna just get out of the house, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Okay. So I applied for the job. I went and met with Jamie Lee, and we had a really great interview. Um, we spoke like I had known her my entire life, you know, I told her about my past, my education, my experience and she was like, Tony, I really think you're just overqualified for the job. She was like, you're not gonna like it, you know? She was like, the, the pay probably is substandard compared to what you're used to. And I was like, I really don't care. Like, I just, she was like, well, we're looking for a part-time bookkeeper. And I like perked up. And I was like, really? And so I hung around Safe House and I met with Neil that day and it was just like, yeah, when can you start, you know? Wow. So July 7th has been two years that I've been with the company now, and I've grown my position and, shown them what I could do. And it's just it was a perfect, like God was working in that moment. Wow. Because he knew like. Yeah, you're not gonna be at the front desk. You there? I have a bigger purpose for you. Awesome. I love that. That's really cool.

Phil:

Last thoughts that you wanna share? Anything Matt?

Toni:

No. You don't have anything?

Matt:

I'm

Phil:

hungry.

Toni:

Your money's hungry. All right. Hey, I mean it. Yeah,

Phil:

It's lunchtime. Yeah. No, thank you. Any last thoughts from you, Tony?

Toni:

Thank you for this opportunity. You know, this is, you know, when you get it all out, it's therapeutic, you know, and sometimes you talk about stuff or you remember stuff that you've put in the back of your mind. And I know during this interview, I, you've seen me sit here and shed a couple tears and I'm just, I'm so proud of where we were and where we are and where we're going and in our careers. Like, once you, you have that foundation, like everything just falls into place and that's awesome. Life is not perfect. We struggle. We live paycheck to paycheck some days, you know, we don't know how we're gonna put gas in the car during those off weeks, but life is good. Life is, and nothing

Matt:

when you get to the good part of life, don't forget where you came from. Yeah. You forget where you came from. You get, as they say, a big head. Stay humble.

none:

Yeah.

Phil:

That's a good last word. You guys have an amazing story, like each of you individually and the way that God has brought your lives together. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's been an encouragement to me and, um, just, yeah, it's been awesome. You guys mind if I close this in a word of prayer? No, absolutely. Absolutely. Lord, thank you for your grace. Thank you for Matt. Thank you for Tony. Thank you for how you have worked over the years and their lives in so many different ways. Lord, I just pray your blessing upon their marriage, their family, their future. I pray for Nicholas Lord bless and guide him, and I know you've got great plans for his life. Lord, give Tony wisdom and Matt wisdom. Help them to be strong in their love and just to stay true to what they know is right what you teach in your word. Lord, just help Matt in his journey of faith. Father, help him, uh, with the questions that he's still facing, just to lead him Lord and to a, a place where he can just totally surrender to you. Thank you for the miracles you've done in their lives, and thank you for the great things that you have planned for their future. In Jesus name I pray, amen. Amen.

Phil Shuler:

We look forward to being with you again next week as we share another testimony about the power and the goodness of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. if you are someone listening to this podcast that loves to hear these stories of the great things that God is doing in changing people's lives for the better, and if you would like to be a part of that work, please reach out to us You can reach us at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus, Georgia, 31,904. You can call us at seven oh six three two two. 3 7, 7 3, or you can email us at info@safehouse-ministries.com.

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone)-2:

Thank you so much for being with us this week for the renew restore and rejoice podcast of safe house ministries, we pray that God will bless you this week. And we look forward to having you back with us again next week for a new episode.