Meth Shake and Bake Turned Molotov Cocktail, Ginger Howze's Story (Part 2)

Ginger shares some crazy stories this week, including a time when she and her trap house gang were making shake and bake in a tiny shed and someone through a bottle at the door of the shed which became an instant blaze of fire in the door!  If you enjoy listening to this episode, please share and give us a 5-star review!  Thanks so much!

Transcript

Phil Shuler: 0:00

HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the Safe House Ministries podcast, where we share stories of the power of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. Safe House Ministries is based out of Columbus, Georgia, and we are a ministry that exists to love and serve people who have been affected by addiction, homelessness, and incarceration. I'm your host, Phil Shuler, the Director of Development for Safe House Ministries here in Columbus, Georgia. Safe House serves over 1, 100 people each month as they transition back into our community. Safe House provides an abundance of services including 213 beds for homeless individuals and families, case management for obtaining job skills and long term employment. Over 300 hot meals every day, free clothing, and so much more. One of the most incredible services that Safe House provides is our free 9 12 month intensive outpatient substance abuse program, which is state licensed, CARF accredited, and has no wait list. Almost 100 percent of individuals staying in our shelters who follow our three phase program become fully employed within a few months. And 68 percent of individuals who stay at least one night with us End up finding work and moving into their own home. Thank you for being with us today and listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoy this week's episode.

Ginger: 1:12

I lived in a shed with him in Crawford, Alabama, uh, for three months with No, the dead of summer. No, uh, running water. No power. No. Yeah.

both: 1:22

Like an actual shed. An shed. Kind of a actual, yeah, like an tiny actual

Ginger: 1:26

shed. An outdoor shed. Yep.

Phil: 1:29

Wow.

Ginger: 1:30

Yeah. And I used to, um, at nighttime I would run through a field to the house, that the people that let us, let him stay in the shed or whatever, let us stay there, they were great. sometimes I would be able to go in and take showers and stuff. They were, they were, they were good to me. Wow. And, uh, but a lot of times I would just run through the field at nighttime and go get in their hose and ba Yeah. Yep. Wow. Yeah. And then, um,

both: 1:52

did they let you go in for the restroom too, or was that Yeah.

Ginger: 1:54

Yeah, we could do that sometimes, but most, most of the time it was in a bucket.

both: 1:58

Wow.

Ginger: 1:58

Mm-hmm.

both: 1:59

What a life. That's crazy.

Ginger: 2:01

Especially coming from where I came from and like, and, and you know, the shame I used to get shamed at, at different, like. Drug houses I had, I would go pla places that certain people wouldn't get high if I walked in there. Because you were always the way they were like, uh, they were like, what are you doing here? You look like a school teacher. You know, you, you don't belong here. What are you doing slumming here? Like, they would think I was a police, would think I like you looked too good. Yeah. I guess to be, yeah. I, I sure didn't think so. And my mama sure didn't think so. I was a hundred and thirty two, a hundred thirty five pounds. I'm five 11, you know? I don't know. They just, wow. Yeah. But I even shamed, and then again, I'm taking that, I'm like, I'm even getting shamed. Shame, because

both: 2:37

you'd look too good. You didn't, don't even fit in with us. Don't

Ginger: 2:39

even, right, right. Yeah. So it just, but you're living

both: 2:41

in a shed. I'm living in a shed

Ginger: 2:43

pooping in a bucket.

both: 2:44

Wow. You

Ginger: 2:45

know? Um, yeah, it, it, it got, it got really, really bad. Um, so Robbie and I didn't speak for, there was like some physical alter altercations, and, police were called and things like that.

both: 2:56

So you, you were kind of still kind of on and off with and Robbie on and off and then,

Ginger: 2:59

yeah, and it was weird because like I've got this whole other much older boyfriend and then we would all go back to our old house to get high that has no power, no water of his super nice house. Like, it, it just evil, terrible, sinful, horrible things. Yeah, just horrible. Yeah. And then, um, wow. Then Robbie ended up, having his, you know, I don't wanna tell his testimony, but he ended up, getting some help and so he got, uh, cleaned two years before I did. So at this time, my dad started having, you know, my parents had had Jackson for many years, and I would, they, they never kept Jack from me. I would see, see him sometimes I would have nowhere to go, and they would let me stay there, and then I would totally take advantage of them. And, you know, when you're in a, in addiction, it's just, everything's about me. Wow. And if you had told me that I was selfish, I would've never thought that because I was so loving. And, you know, given I love people and I'll help people and do anything for somebody. But no, I was the most self-centered person. Ev everything was about me and how I was feeling and, wow. And a lot of people get addicted to the lifestyle. I always hated that part because When you

both: 4:06

say the lifestyle, you mean like the, just the lifestyle, the hustling, the, the sexual craziness. Yeah. All of it. All of it. The adrenaline from

Ginger: 4:14

Yeah. Just, just being out there. Yeah. Like, um, hitting licks. That's what it's called. Like when you, oh, we got, we got this place, we're gonna hit a lick, which means you're gonna go get a, come up like steal copper or rob something or

both: 4:26

get a lick. It's like go, just like hit a, commit a crime. Yeah.

Ginger: 4:28

Commit a crime. We're gonna hit a lick. Yeah. Because it's like

both: 4:31

an adrenaline rush and yeah.

Ginger: 4:32

So, and so because of that, I thought everybody was my friend. I was always trying to make friends. You know, there's no friends in the, for the most part, everybody's out for themselves. Your stuff's getting stolen. You're stealing everybody's stuff. They're stealing your stuff,

both: 4:44

and they're all acting like, it's like so much every to that. And everybody would steal

Ginger: 4:47

your quote unquote friend would have your dope in their pocket and in helping you look for it. You know what I mean? You know that they have it. Wow. They just, it's just horrible stuff. But I was constantly getting my feelings hurt and, you know, all this different stuff. It just, it was, it was definitely not, not for me, but I was in it for 20 years.

both: 5:05

Wow. Yeah. 20 years. 20 years. I'm still learning. Yeah. And I, uh, really don't have a great or deep understanding of what that world is like. Mm-hmm. But, I picture it maybe with some similarities to, because I'm studying the old test in the Bible mm-hmm. And I think about pagan religions and mm-hmm. Um, the worship of false gods. I, I really believe that those were demonic influences and that just like the things that would happen at the temples of those false gods, the craziness, the sexual insanity, like, I don't know. It just seems like maybe there are some similarities to that world of darkness in drugs and not just similarities.

Ginger: 5:45

You are, you are right on meth is, it truly is a portal to a whole demonic underworld. I mean, I, I have. No doubt about that. I have, it's the only time in my life I have actually seen the face of demons, like vivid demons. Uh, that happened to me three times. Of course, you have, you see shadow people, you hear people like, oh, the shadow people are out. Us that are in recovery now can kinda laugh about those things, you know? which is, uh, may sound sick, but that's just'cause everybody that's been in it, you're like, oh yeah, well I saw this one time, you know, an Easter bun. I mean, I literally saw an Easter bunny dancing by the mailbox at four o'clock in the morning.'cause I'd been up for four days, you know? Um, so it wasn't just the, the dope That's so terrible. It's, that was the sleep deprivation as well, you know? days and days and days not eating, nothing. And, um, just dope, you know. but the meth is very much a, a sexual drug. There was a lot of stuff. So that part was always hard for me because, I wasn't, not that I'm like better or anything, but I just wa I didn't, I wasn't raised like that, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I, I still had all of that, my upbringing down in there. So even though you're

both: 6:50

high and Yes. Like participating in all those behaviors, right. You still in the back of your mind,

Ginger: 6:55

right? I still wanted one person. Like I never slept around. I didn't, and so there a lot of the guys were not used to a female, like paying for her dope. And so I would be like, oh, I don't, uh, no, I, I have money because most of

both: 7:08

females like slept with you. Like Yeah, yeah. They just do sexual fingers. And I speaking for all

Ginger: 7:12

drugs I'm saying in the circle that I ran in. Yeah. So lemme just say that'cause I don't wanna, you know, offend anybody, but that, that's pretty much the norm. that they would just have sex with somebody and just to get high or whatever. And, um, I, I just never did that. That part was hard. So they would always try me up. And then, we'll, we'll talk about my, my husband now, um, that I'm, uh, the love of my life. The most wonderful man ever. Um, uh, actually, Robbie introduced, so Robbie, we all met in addiction. Robbie met my husband now, Jeff, in addiction. We were all running in the same circles. Wow. Yeah. And so, so like

both: 7:45

you guys were interacting in some of those same houses and Yeah. The same circles.

Ginger: 7:48

Yeah. We were all kind of getting, high together. And then he introduced me to Jeff and so we kind of, like, I fell in love with Jeff almost just immediately, you know? it was really weird. We talk about that. I just saw the man that he is today in him.

both: 8:01

Like, you knew what he could be.

Ginger: 8:02

I, I did. I just saw it instantly because he, but he. I was very loyal. Like I'm just with him. So, um, we've been really, even in the midst of the midst of world, that was my, that was my boyfriend, even though he was So you started

both: 8:16

dating Jeff? Yeah, I

Ginger: 8:17

started dating Jeff and, um, I was very loyal to him, 110%. And of course he was not, because it's a very sexual drug. And I was al you know, there was a lot of, uh, cheating and, you know, things like that, which were super, super, super hurtful for me. Um, but you know, that was just a lifestyle and that's not who he is today, obviously drugs, especially with men. Um, meth really is is really a sexual, just yuck, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But that was hurtful. But I was, I was just loyal with him. So, and, and again, I'm still thinking the code of ethics as friendships should be, and like, he would be gone off with some other girl, you know, and I'm crying and stuff. And so his fr other friends are like, trying to get with me, and I'm like, that's your friend. I don't know. That's my, even though he's over there with somebody else, you know, that's, that's, I'm in love with him and that's who I'm with, you know? So. Wow. You really

both: 9:05

were a bit of an oddball in that world. Oh,

Ginger: 9:07

very much was, yeah. And I got my feel, uh, you know. Were

both: 9:10

you, did that also affect your self image? Like, were they just, did people make fun of you and give you a hard time about that? Well,

Ginger: 9:15

kind of, yeah. They would just try, try me up. I heard you're too good, you know, you think you're too good or whatever. Or, um, had, I had one guy ask me, he said, um, I just wanna, uh, I need to meet your mom. And I was like, don't you ever say my mom's name outta your mouth again? You know? But he said, well, she must be the reason that you're so stingy with all of that. And I said, she is. She's the reason that, you know, she taught you better. She taught me. Yeah. She taught me that. It, that's something special, you know, that you do. Yeah. So, um. Anyway, uh, so I, the, the lifestyle part of that.

both: 9:44

Wow. It just

Ginger: 9:45

ran me down through there. It was tough, you know? That's a

both: 9:47

fascinating, I would say dichotomy, I guess. Mm-hmm. That, that you're living in the darkness and evil off the deep end in these parts of your life. Mm-hmm. But this other part, you were trying to, trying to stay on the right path. I was. And the straight and narrow, and I was,

Ginger: 10:03

yeah. Oh, no, I was not perfect, don't get me wrong. I was, I was a horrible, horrible thief. Um, there were some, two people in particular, two couples in particular that really looked out for me. And I mean, there's, I, I would steal from them, you know, just all of the things, things I would never, never do. I had no respect for anybody else. and that's just part of that lifestyle. You'd sit something down and your stuffy, you know, I mean, just gone and, and vice versa, you know? So, um, and you're just bouncing, like, where did you live during bounce around this time? Just bounce around. We, we, Jeff and I were able to stay with a really good, friend of his, Brian and Alicia. They were, they were amazing to us. They took us in and, let us stay there and really helped us out. Otherwise, I would be on the street, which, before meeting Jeff, I was a couple of times I just couldn't find anywhere to stay. Literally sleeping on the streets. Literally sleeping on the street. Yeah. Um, wow. Actually one like in the woods somewhere? Yeah, in the woods. And then, um, one time up under a, underpass, which I ironically, um, is right by my house on, um, uh, Edgewood Road. By, uh,

both: 11:00

where you current? Your current house? Yeah. Where I

Ginger: 11:01

currently live now. Yeah. Um, yeah. Wow. So you

both: 11:04

spent many nights, I guess in

Ginger: 11:06

just, just one night. It was with the older boyfriend that I had after the one that was nice to me and taught me how to make, make dope. Um, yeah, we, we had been walking for. A whole 24 hours and we're outta dope and nowhere to stay. And it was starting to rain and he was like, we're just gonna have to go up here. And I remember just sitting under there like squalling my eyes out and I just kept saying I was rocking back and forth. I was like, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not supposed to be here. And um, I have a, a student bible that my sister gave me many years ago and it has my, um, it actually says ginger goolsby still.'cause she gave it to me. I, I think right around the time I got out of the Bradley Center and I had that Bible, which ironically everything I ever owned was stolen, obviously 10 times over and, and, and the lifestyle and bouncing around and, from Brian, Alicia to ano another, A person's house and here, there and yawn and, uh, but that bible I still have. And, recently I was looking up something because I liked the translation of it a little, a little better. And I mean, my heart just stopped. I, I started reading all the scriptures and I would write the date, just literally like crying out to the Lord. I remember sitting in that room and I used to just read and like, yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean, of course I was high. And then the So

both: 12:18

you would, you would periodically spend time trying to read that bible? Oh yeah. During those years. Oh, during

Ginger: 12:23

those years, yeah. Definitely. Especially the last year of Jeff. And i's using, it was, it was horrible. It had quit being fun years ago. Is that the

both: 12:32

darkest Yeah, that was the darkes. That

Ginger: 12:34

was the darkest and uh. I mean, he and I would be getting high and, and I would be crying. I mean, I hated it. I, I hated it, but I, I didn't know how to Wow. I, like, I couldn't stop, you know what I mean? and then of course the guilt and shame of being away from Jackson. And then that was really hard because Robbie got clean. He, he went through the drug court program and he got clean two years before I did. So my dad started having some pretty severe health issues during that time. And so, my parents gave Jackson back to Robbie. wow. Yeah. And he would bring, God bless him, he would let me see Jack. But the house, the house that we were staying at, um, there was drug activity obviously, so I was not gonna let him come inside. So I can remember just the desperation of wanting to spend time with my son and he couldn't even come in. Like we didn't have anywhere to go. So there was like a, a church, um, with a swing set across the street from where the, the drug activity house was. And we would, um, Robbie would bring him and let me, like, we would swing and I tried to make, you know, make it as, as good as I could. And it was really Wow. Dark, dark times. Yeah.

both: 13:41

Uh, if, if you are willing, would you maybe just think about a couple of specific stories of instances that were some of the craziest things that you experienced during that time?

Ginger: 13:51

let me think. there's so many. Yeah. I got, the first one I'll think of is, um, Hooked up with this one guy, just like, not hooked up, but you know, hanging out with him. And, um, he used to deal meth and, uh, this was after Robbie and I, the stay away orders were not talking and stuff like that. I had been with him 20 years, you know, so I'm just kind of out, out not knowing how to act, you know, and, um, really bad on, I mean, just high, just terrible. And so I never knew the, the, the scrapping and the, the things that, the hustling, the hitting licks and all that different stuff that, that you do to get high. So they would steal copper. So I remember one night, and I'm like, they're like, you've ever heard of scrapping? You are from the other side of the track. I'm like, what do you mean the other side of the track? I just don't know what you're talking about. So we would spend hours and hours running through the woods and I'm carrying like grills and tire, like, you know, rims and there was an abandoned house and I'll never forget, they were like, climb up on that ladder quick. We were cutting copper out of the house. And and I was like, are you sure this is. Not live. And he was like, man, it's an abandoned house. I cut that thing and fell off that ladder. Yeah. But yeah, I had cut a wire and it was, there was power running to it, so that was quite a, you know, of course they laugh and then they hear a car coming and they take off and they're like, get that stuff. So I'm the one carrying the most metal, and it was just, just ridiculous, you know? And I just wanted everybody to be my friend, so I never got money. I was, I would help do all this stuff and then I wouldn't really get any, you know, anything out of it. Um, I mean, they, they, you know, get high with me, roll a bowl or something like that, but they were getting the money and all that. It just, you know, it was, it was dark. And then, let's see, um, another time, so this was probably the most shocking, and this is when I was like, another time that I can just remember really like the. I felt the Holy Spirit kind of wash over me. Um, and in hindsight, looking back and just being so panic, like I wanted to run screaming. Um, we were in the, I never, shot dope, but Jeff, my husband, was on the needle for like 20 plus years. He, he shot.

both: 15:52

Okay. Mm-hmm. So you, you did, you smoked it? I smoked

Ginger: 15:55

it or snorted it, things like that. I would eat it. You could even eat it. Yeah. But, um, I, you know, I just never done the needle'cause I didn't wanna up the ante, you know, I didn't wanna get worse. Like, it's bad. That's like a whole new

both: 16:04

level.

Ginger: 16:04

Yeah. Oh, that's a whole new level. And, and just the way, and it's more of a sexual thing. Like, I just saw, you know, how it did. I was like this, nah, no, no, this is bad enough what I got going on. You know? Um, and it was never a judgment. I mean, we're all, you know, addicts and we're all getting high there, you know, it's nothing like that. But it's just, I didn't want, I didn't wanna take it there, you know? Yeah. But I, I had been out somewhere and I walked in and there's like just a room full. It's probably like nine or 10 people all sitting around, uh, on couches and, you know, floor and stuff. And, everybody in there was trying to, it is called trying to hit yourself. They were trying to find veins. And so they were digging, digging on the stuff. There's like bleeding and I felt like I was going to have an anxiety attack. This girl, um, bless her heart, I don't even know her name, but she, she probably weighed 85 pounds soaking wet. She, she looked horrible and I was thinking, this, this is, keep it up. This is you're, this is where you're heading, you know? and she like laid back. She was sitting next, she came and sat next to me and like threw her leg up in the air and took a men's neck tie. And like, she was panicking because they, she couldn't hit a vein, you know what I mean? You're not eating, drinking, you're, you know, you've been shooting dope. Your veins are blown and. Um, and she threw her leg in the air and she's tied, started tying that men's neck tie all the way up, like gladiator style upper leg, and was trying to hit it. And I just, it was like time froze and I'm just looking around and I'm like, I like, what am I doing? You know? and again, it was never like a judgment thing. I don't judge people. Um, I, I never really have, not then, not now, but um, it was almost just like, you, you get out of here now. You know what I mean? This is, this is not where you belong.

Phil: 17:47

Yeah. Like,

Ginger: 17:47

I felt like God was saying, there's so much more for you. You know? Wow. yeah, that was, that was probably the one of the most shocking. There's just. Many others I've seen. yeah, just really scary stuff. I've seen a guy get hit in the head, um, with a hammer five or six times. Yeah.

both: 18:03

Like someone just started down Yeah. Started beating on him with a hammer beating. Yeah.

Ginger: 18:06

And I'm, I'm trying to like get this sword that was nailed off the wall because it was a guy I thought he was, it was killing him. It was pouring down rain. You could hear like, wow, wow. I don't see how he didn't die. And I'm trying to get this, snatch this thing off.'cause I was like, I got one chance to hit this guy. You're

both: 18:19

gonna use the sword and slice. I was just that fella with the hammer. Yeah. I

Ginger: 18:22

mean, he was kill, I mean, I was just screaming, like screaming. You're, you're killing him. It was, there're just so much violence, so much. I guess

both: 18:30

you weren't able to get that sword down. No, I was not able

Ginger: 18:32

to get that thing off. And then the, um, and then actually what happened, I've only had a man put their hands on me twice in my life. Um, both were in addiction. Neither was with somebody I was with. but his. Girlfriend screamed when she saw me running around his mom, I'm sorry, it was his mom, uh, screamed. It was an older lady and he, he got up and went running over. He's like, oh, you and hit somebody. And went, bow punched me right in my eye.

both: 18:55

This was the guy with the hammer? Yeah, with

Ginger: 18:56

the hammer. And so of course scared me to death. I'm like, oh my he's fixing to kill me. But he punched me right in the eye and I was so worried about this other guy. I run, this is when I was living in, in the field, in, in the shed. So I go running through the field to the big house and I'm like, call 9 1 1. They almost killed this guy, you know? And, and he was like, are you, you know,'cause my adrenaline was going. He was like, are you okay? I didn't even realize I'd been hit, but apparently it was like a good shiner. So, yeah. Really? Wow.

both: 19:22

I know it's, wow. Mm-hmm. and you have all kind of stories like that? Oh yeah.

Ginger: 19:27

Yeah. They're endless. Just really terrible stuff. I've been in a, a shed, they call it shake and bake. It's like Stu Fed and, Lie and batteries and all kind of stuff anyway. Um, and you shake it in a Coke bottle and it, and then there's other steps to it, but we'll just leave it at that. And, uh, then you drink it. No, you, you, you like dry it out, you put it in a plate and then you put, I don't wanna give all the recipes out here. Oh, yeah, yeah. So yeah. Phil, whatcha are you trying to get me to do?

both: 19:52

So is that why when I go to the drugstore, I have to like show my license to get that's like Sudafed or whatever. That's

Ginger: 19:58

exactly why. Because it's made from, yep. Yep. Um, and, uh, so anyway, he went to, like burp the bottle. You have to like, let off some of this stuff. We're in this dirt basement, like up under the house that they had put a couch down. It was like, you know, real low, like a typical yucky base basement that they tried to make a little, you know, room out of. And he's standing in. they had, uh, tiki tiki hut, like grass hut stuff over the door. It had an actual door to go outside, but there was like this tiki hut stuff.'cause you know. Putting the, putting in a vibe around there and, yeah. Um, and so he was shaking the bottle and he went to Burp. And when he did it just caught on fire. Like, like wow. Two. And he got so nervous. So he threw it, and when he threw it, it, that was the only exit out, like, is that door and that whole thing is on fire. Wow. Well, my fight or flight hit and I, I, I jumped over the couch, like one foot on the coffee table. I threw elbows, knocked this guy down. I'm like, it scared me so bad.'cause I was like, we're gonna burn today. Like, but it was split second. I mean, that thing caught on fire and that thing was burning and I just, you bolted, busted through it. Busted. Just busted right through it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, there's, it's, it's a lot, Phil. Wow. Just every sin imaginable. It really is. And I love the correlation with the Bible that you were talking about. That's exactly, especially meth. Meth, I just say, it really is, just a demonic, demonic drug. Yeah. I, yeah, because I've done a lot of other drugs. I've done, you know, not that all drugs are terrible. I'm not saying they're not, but something about meth, it just cracks open some ugly, sinful portal. That is really scary stuff. Wow.

both: 21:37

Yeah. Yeah. We, uh, we're probably very fortunate that we aren't able to understand and see all that happens in the, in the spiritual world. Absolutely.

Ginger: 21:46

Yeah. I got, yeah, very much so. yeah,

both: 21:49

I can imagine though, just the crazy, I don't know what it, what it might be like, just the devil and the demons just. Laughing and just Oh, yeah. Manipulating and just

Ginger: 21:59

that demon face that I saw three being in those places. Yeah. Oh. Uh, he, he like taunted me. It was a glass, little glass cut out in a, a, a door and it, we had been out in the garage and, uh, I'd come back in and I turned to go back out, out. And it literally like the little square window and it just, and his face was

both: 22:17

like, you could see it beginning to rise

Ginger: 22:19

in the window. Yes. And right in the window and stare at me and that. And at first I was like, you know, everybody's like, that's sleep. Deion, you know, people are laughing. I was like, that was a freaking demon. Like demon. I mean, look, I have chills now, like, scared me so bad. You would think it was scare me straight. And this was a window or a mirror or This was a, it was a window. It was just a little small cutout of a door. Um, you know, like a little, yeah. One glass pane. And it just raised a, and the way it, it looked at me and then another time, but it, I, I saw that same demon three, three different times. It was always that same exact face. Once it was. With the shower curtain, like came back and it was that demon. Wow. So like laughing and like you were in the shower and you pulled the shower curtain. Yeah. And I, and I, I, because I thought I heard something and I went to do like this, and it was that same, just that fa and like mocking me. It was the most tr I, I would love, I, I mean, I wouldn't love to, but I think it would be so neat to have a sketch artist that does, like, for the police sketches to actually see if they could drive, because it's so vivid in my mind. It's terrifying. If you

both: 23:16

can, like, would you describe, like what did it look like? Um,

Ginger: 23:18

it, I never really saw a body. It was just the head, but just a contorted face. It had like real dark, dark skin. It was just a dark, a darkness and like real big black eyes, but like a lot of, like, he was just this, but it almost had like a joker smile. Oh. it's just hard. I mean, I can ViiV vividly see it, but it was, it was terrifying. And there's, I just firmly believe that was a demon because I've seen many shadow people. I've had sleep deprivation all of the time. Like you,

both: 23:50

you've, you, you feel like you know the difference between hallucinations and Yes. And that demons. Yes. I

Ginger: 23:54

definitely do. I definitely do. Wow. Mm-hmm. I, um,

both: 23:57

I can only imagine, I mean, Satan and the demons that serve him know mm-hmm. They know what's gonna happen to them in the end. Like they know they've lost. Oh, they do. They know that. Mm-hmm. When Jesus comes back in eternity, they're going to the lake of fire. Right. Right. And so the only, I don't even know what you would call it. It's, it's not joy, it's just, I don't know. They're just the only thing that they clinging to is Right. I think just manipulating and hurting people. Oh, yeah. Like, and just laughing at the, because I, because it hurts God. And, and that's their way of Yes. Hurting the heart of God if they can hurt and destroy people's lives.

Ginger: 24:34

Right. But the ironic, well, it's not ironic. To touch on what you just said, that was at the end, like I said, the last nine months of our using was horrendous. So that deem same demon. I saw three different times and it just so happened that was nine months before we surrendered. Um, and, and got clean, Jeff and I, and but in that nine months we were constantly talking about like he and I would, Jeff was doing landscaping at the time and we would draw out like landscaping. It was always when we get clean. When we get clean.'cause we had been together for five years and my parents never heard his name. I purposely kept him completely away from my parents, you know, he was like, am I ever gonna meet your parents? I was like, not when we're high. So it was always like, wow. We knew like we wanted so much better and we would dream about and like, this is what our house will look like and this is what our flower beds are look like. It was always when we get clean. Wow. Like, yeah. So, and because of that, and then all of a sudden it was like that demon was taunting me like. You think you, so the three

both: 25:35

times you saw that demon were during this last nine months That Yes, during that

Ginger: 25:38

last, never in the 20 years have I ever seen that. Wow. But it's like, you know, I say that all the time. You know, the devil doesn't mess with you when he's already got you. I was already living and running in sin. I didn't, it was just darkness and another day. You know? Um, it's, that's why people, I think, uh, sometimes have a hard time when they're first saved or they first surrender and give their life to Christ, get ready because, you know, that's when the, the, the devil is, is not happy about that. You know, he, he wants you back and, and, and things can get really tough, you know, sometimes. but that's what it was. It was like, he was like, ah, you think you're going somewhere I you're mine kind of a thing. Wow. Because it never showed up ever in all those years of using. But that last nine months, it was, it was taunting me.

both: 26:23

Now, were you a believer in Christ? Already at that point of your life?

Ginger: 26:28

Always. There's never been a cha uh, never been a time in my life that I've ever even

both: 26:33

So when you were little, little, you trusted Christ as your savior gave your life to him. Mm-hmm.

Ginger: 26:38

The whole time. Like, and I know that's crazy to say, but, um, yeah, I, I, I've never doubt, I've never had a doubtful faith. I've never, um, I was running from God because I, because, well, just because it was like I, because I wasn't living right. And I was sinning and I was shameful, and so I just kept, kept running from him. But, you know, I just constantly pursuing me, you know? Wow. And, and there's so many situations that, that it, it is just nothing but God. And especially now in recovery, like, um, coming up on seven years in January, um, looking back and like just seeing his hand orchestrate, like in everything. It's just, it's, it's just unbelievable. Um, Jeff ended up. Because again, so for nine months we were like, when we get, we have, you know, I'm so sick of this. And Jeff ended up getting pulled over. He was working a landscaping job and he got pulled over at work for um, like a taillight or something. And he had an old warrant and so they picked, they picked him up and he ended up going to jail. So he calls me again. I'm still staying at the, at the people's house at this time. I was obviously a lot to deal with when I was high. I'm already very hyper, so, um, a little bit of dope. I was up for days, I mean, just one line and I'm up two, three days and when everybody else could just go, go to bed. And so the sleep deprivation hitting, um, I'm hallucinating, I'm spastic, I'm, you know, I was a lot to deal with. Um, and so people didn't really want me around. They just did because of Jeff.'cause Jeff's always just even an addiction. He's just, just Jeff, he's just great. Yeah. Everybody loves Jeff House. Um, and uh, so he got picked up and called me and was like, this is it. You know, um, he's like, I got locked up and you know, I got probation violation or whatever. I don't know how long I'm gonna be in, so I'm calling his probation officer.'cause I'm scared to death now because I'm so codependent on him, like to protect me. It was just, uh, me and him against the world. And I knew that where we're staying, it was because of him. And, you know, um, I was scared to death. So I, um, you know, I'm calling his probation officer. I'm like, please let him out before you know Chris, you know, blah, blah, blah. And Wow. Yeah. So, um, and then after about a week,'cause he, I mean he's solid, been using meth for almost 30 years, like a needle. He quit. He, he, he gave the needle up, um, about a year before we quit getting high, which is, which is huge'cause from what I understand and what I've seen people actually get hooked on the needle, if that makes sense. Yeah. I never really got that, but I, I, I, I've seen it with my own eyes. So he just got, he kind of got just sick of shooting dope. So he finally quit that after that many years. And, but then he called me, I guess it had been two weeks, and he called me and said. This is it because this is the first time he had had some clarity and kind of dried out and rested and slept and been eating. And he said, this is what we've been praying for. He was like, I'm done. We're done.

29:28

And that is the end of part two of Ginger's story. Next week you will hear the miraculous turnaround that God did in her life and in Jeff's life. You will not wanna miss it. It's, it is an amazing story of redemption and all that God did to get ginger from that place of darkness into the place of joy and light and wonder that Ginger and Jeff are at now. Thanks for being here this week and we will see you back here next week.

Phil Shuler: 29:57

We look forward to being with you again next week as we share another testimony about the power and the goodness of God to change lives through Safe House Ministries. if you are someone listening to this podcast that loves to hear these stories of the great things that God is doing in changing people's lives for the better, and if you would like to be a part of that work, please reach out to us You can reach us at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus, Georgia, 31,904. You can call us at seven oh six three two two. 3 7, 7 3, or you can email us at info@safehouse-ministries.com.

Microphone (Samson Q2U Microphone)-2: 30:35

Thank you so much for being with us this week for the renew restore and rejoice podcast of safe house ministries, we pray that God will bless you this week. And we look forward to having you back with us again next week for a new episode.