Verify In Field: The Millwork Podcast

Simplifying the trades: Dave Doran's Seven Degree Solution

• Yuksel Nunez Araujo • Season 2 • Episode 8

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In this episode of Verify Infield, host Jacob Edmond talks with Dave Doran, the inventor of a game-changing Z clip system and the founder of Seven Degree Solutions. After more than 25 years in high-end millwork installation, Dave saw firsthand how much time and effort was wasted shimming wall panels by hand—and decided to do something about it.

What began as a sketch in Bluebeam and a prototype in his garage has now become a patented system used by leading shops in the Bay Area and beyond. With a clever beveled clip and horseshoe shim combo, Dave’s innovation simplifies installation, saves time, and eliminates the frustration of misaligned panels.


About Our Guest

Dave Doran is a seasoned project manager and millwork installer with a deep background in architectural woodwork. He began his career as an apprentice with Design Workshops in the Bay Area and now works for a major general contractor managing large-scale projects—including OpenAI’s new headquarters in San Francisco.

Drawing on decades of hands-on experience (and a family legacy in the trades), Dave developed the Seven Degree Z Clip System—a refined, field-tested solution for faster and more accurate panel installation. His mission? Make installation smarter and simpler for the next generation of tradespeople—including his own son, now a union apprentice.


Where to Learn More

Explore Seven Degree Solutions, watch demo videos, or request a free sample:

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Dave Doran:

I designed a Z clip with a seven degree bevel on it. I don't know if you can see that in the camera, but it's got a bevel on it, and then I created a horseshoe shim, right, that slips up behind it and adjusts it in and out off the wall as necessary. Removing the process of stacking all these shims and, and getting it wrong a lot of the time, and pulling stuff out and adding different size shims to get it to exactly where you need it.

Jacob Edmond:

Welcome back to Verify and Field everybody. Today I have special guest, uh, Dave Doran, who is president at Seven Degree Solutions and, uh, which is the company behind the Innovative Z Clips system. And it's for designed to reduce install time. So, Dave, thank you for joining me today. I am excited to, to hear a lot about your story and, and how you came to develop this product.

Dave Doran:

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Jacob Edmond:

To get started, would you mind giving us a little bit about just your background in, in the industry and what was kind of the impetus that came to developing Seven Degree?

Dave Doran:

Sure. Yeah. Um, so I graduated high school and went into the Army for a couple years and when it was time for me to get out, my dad was a project manager for a while, but also one of the main foreman over at a company called Design Workshops here in the Bay Area. They do really high end, uh, millwork in installations and a great shop for, you know, high-end tenant improvement work and, uh, really high end residential out here. And, uh, he said, why don't you come give it a shot? And I did. In 2000, I started my apprenticeship with Design Workshops. I spent 10 years over there, um, went through the union apprenticeship. The day I turned out, I started running work, and spent years of my life shimming Z clips, prepping walls and ceilings for millwork panels and all the layout that goes for verifying field stuff. You know, I love the title of your podcast because I did a lot of it and, uh, spent about 10 years over there. Uh, with Design Workshops and then moved into the general contracting side for a company called Principal Billers. And I'm, I still work for them today. I'm one of their main superintendents and I'm actually in a job site office right now. We're running the new headquarters for Open AI over here in San Francisco. That was about 15 years ago. And, uh, yeah, my, so my dad was in the trades. I, I did it for the last 25 years and my son is serving as apprenticeship at Design Workshops now too. And, uh, is also spending years of his life shimming walls for, for panels and, uh, millwork panels and ceilings. So, I just remember thinking to myself, man, there's gotta be, there's gotta be an easier way to do this. And about six years ago, I came up with a prototype and then I shelved it. And then about every six months I'd be like, oh God, there's gotta be something. I go to the hardware store and start getting parts and pieces and playing with'em for a week or whatever and give up on it. And then last February, uh, 20, yeah, last February I was driving home from work and I just came up with the idea. So I went home and I drew it on Blue Beam. And I started playing with the, the wedge and an extruded piece of aluminum that had the matching bevel and moving it in and out and up and down. I was like, wow, this, this works. So let me, uh, let me go out to the garage and I machined a bunch of parts out of dug for the shins and glued on a, a wedge on the back of an existing Z clip and set up a camera and had my wife film me and. I did it. I proved it to myself like the old fashioned way, stacking shims versus this new method of quick adjustability with a seven degree wedge. I proved it to myself and from there I went to a patent attorney and. That was a, a quick process. I mean, I think, it was approved over like four months, I believe, and since then it's been baby steps. Jacob, I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm just taking baby steps here and there and, uh, trying to get the word out to all, all my friends in the industry around here and recently got on LinkedIn, got in contact with you and many other folks around the country and a lot of interest so far and, and a lot of shops around here are going to it. And design workshops themselves have adjusted their standard details to make this a standard for for their installers. Their installers love it. So that's a little bit of history.

Jacob Edmond:

That's awesome. So for our listeners, who, who maybe have never installed before, you know, we have mostly people that I think are, are familiar with this process, but, you know, there's a lot of people that like drafters and engineers who have drawn this stuff but maybe have never installed it. Or even just people that are familiar with Z Clips. I think most people in this industry understand how Z Clips work, and there's a handful of brands out there that make different versions and they're all effectively the same way. Right, which is that you have. aluminum or metal extrusion that is attached to the wall and another one that's flipped 180 degrees attached to the panel you hook it on, right? And so you can have a continuous extrusion on the wall, which is very easy. All of'em work the same way. You, you line'em up to get'em level, right? And then you hook, you have clips that hook on your panels and it seems pretty simple. It's a smaller, thinner metal version of a french cleat in many ways.

Dave Doran:

Right.

Jacob Edmond:

But can you explain talking about what the industry standard products on the marketplace are today, more in depth, what that install process looks like, because on paper,

Dave Doran:

It looks simple. Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

you got a flat wall pannel.

Dave Doran:

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

But what are the obstacles that installers face when you actually get in the field that make it so

Dave Doran:

difficult? Right. So, um, detailers will, will typically provide in their drawings this little space that's behind the z clip called shim space. And it says typically an architectural drawing. We'll just say shim as necessary, and that means build it up so that it's, that the finished product is true. It's plumb, it's level, it's square, it's straight. But what, what you're hanging your finished product on is a, is an imperfect wall or an imperfect ceiling. It's typically, you know, framed at a rough framing and has a layer of dry wall typically, and, you know, most new walls can have easily up to quarter inch bellies in'em or valleys up and down. So, the key or the trick to having your finished product, your finished panels come up perfect, is taking the time to shim all of your z clips out to the exact finish line that they need to be so that it all goes together flawlessly in the end. Right? And that's a painstaking process, right? I used to, when I started, we didn't have these nice lasers, right? We, we, we used chalk lines where we would establish the finish line of the finish panel on the ground. Right. And you would work backwards from there. Always building from the finish line backwards. Right. So you have your finished panel and then you have a Z clip that mounts to the back of the finish panel, and then you have the Z rail that mounts to the wall, right? And this has to move in and out off the wall to get it exactly smooth, flush plum level, true square straight, and then the Z clip and the panel hooks on it. So what guys have been doing for years is, um, either spray, gluing, two and a half inch pads, either out of plastic, laminate or thicker material, like 30 seconds sixteenths, one eighths, one quarters, and, and all the different combinations in between. On every stud and at every elevation where your Z clip is installed, and they either spray glue it or they would pre-drill the Z clip right with a hole, screw it to the wall, and then back it out and take a flat shim like a eighth inch or a 16th or a 32nd or one quarter or any one of those combinations to build it out to exactly where it needs to be. You know, a typical elevator lobby in a high rise, if you're assuming all the walls for that, I mean, it's a week's worth of work for a guy to, to do all of that, to get it correct, right? Just to hang the panels all the, all, all the work that goes into that. Um, with our, my system instead of, you know, the typical Z clip is extruded with a flat back on it and it accepts a flat shim. I designed a Z clip with a seven degree bevel on it. I don't know if you can see that in the camera, but it's got a bevel on it, and then I created a horseshoe shim, right, that slips up behind it and adjusts it in and out off the wall as necessary. Removing the process of stacking all these shims and, and getting it wrong a lot of the time, and pulling stuff out and adding different size shims to get it to exactly where you need it. Now, this process, quick and simple. You adjust it. You have an offset block that hangs on the Z clip with the dimension of the panel that you're using. Here's the threequarter inch line, and you just bring that line out to exactly where you want it, right with your shin. And you can split 30 seconds now in half. Like you can, you can play with 64ths or 128ths if you want it. But, it just completely simplified the whole process. Right. So I have two shims. There's, there's four parts to our Z clip. It's the wall rail or the ceiling rail if you wanted. It's the panel clip, which is the same as everybody else's panel clip that's out on the market. And then I have a four inch shim that gets you anywhere from zero to a quarter inch projection off the wall, and it also has a a little zero mark on it that gets you back to flat. So. You would always install it to the bottom of the clip to get the flat, and then you adjust in and out as necessary to bring it to where you want. Now, if a quarter inches isn't enough. I, I would say a quarter this, this shim is gonna straighten 85% of the walls and ceilings out there, I would say. But if that's not enough, we have the larger shim and it also has a zero mark at the same point, and that takes it from one quarter to a half inch projection. It doesn't take it from zero to a half, it only takes it from one quarter. If you place it down at zero, the panel actually would bind on the shim itself. I know how well I did explaining that, but, um.

Jacob Edmond:

No, that was great. I'll, I'll attempt to, to recap for those who are listening and not watching the video. So in short, the current, you know, established system, you have multiple long extrusions that you're mounting to the wall and what all the work really goes into getting that flat and then hanging the panels becomes easy. Everything is plum and flat. And so what you're trying to do is you have generally a wall where drywall is apply to screws and it's wavy and it can be out of plum, both vertically and definitely horizontally. And your goal is to get all of those extrusions perfectly straight, horizontally in plain, as well as in plain with each other vertically. And once you do that, hanging the panels, the face of the panels will all be true. And the current standard system is basically whatever you need to do to project and get that, extrusion flat on each stud, each mounting point each place where you put a screw through that into the wall, you shimmy it out and right now you're stacking flat shims because the Z clip is flat. And what you've created is essentially an infinitely variable shim system.

Dave Doran:

Yeah. Yep.

Jacob Edmond:

And the thing that pops into my head, and this is probably even more obscure, is like a continuously variable transmission versus a geared transmission.

Dave Doran:

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

You have fixed gear ratios versus a continuously variable system. And what's funny is this is also very much how people, a lot of times when you're installing door frames, you pair two shims with each other to get that same function you've created with the Z clip.

Dave Doran:

That's right.

Jacob Edmond:

You put two sloped shims back to back and it gives you that infinite variability.

Dave Doran:

Right.

Jacob Edmond:

Effectively that's what you've created with, with the Z clip system.

Dave Doran:

Correct. Yeah. The patent language says it's a Z clip. That's the only difference is, is it has an angled base for depth alignment and it just.

Jacob Edmond:

Right.

Dave Doran:

In my mind, it takes out 66% of the labor every time, at least, and it's been proven out here in the Bay Area over and over again. Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

So now you've established, obviously you've got the patent, you've created this solution. You know, it sounds like you're still very much in startup fase.

Dave Doran:

Yeah. Yep.

Jacob Edmond:

You know, building a company and around this and launching this. So, uh, is this a product that people can buy today?

Dave Doran:

It is. Yeah, we we're eight weeks old. We launched the website eight weeks ago. Um, we have a warehouse in Northern California and we can ship, anywhere across the country right now.

Jacob Edmond:

Is it true? So you said your system has four components. So essentially you have four SKUs that

Dave Doran:

you buy. That's it.

Jacob Edmond:

You got the panel clip, extrusion for the wall, and then the two different sizes of shims.

Dave Doran:

That's correct. Yeah. Yep. You know, there, we, we, we can, if, if somebody wanted a custom order, like if they wanted us to punch holes at eight inches on center, so they hit studs every 16 or 24, or they had a specific layout they wanted, we could do that, but the wall rails are at

Jacob Edmond:

lengths? foot, uh, 12 feet long.

Dave Doran:

Or we could chop'em to six feet long if they wanted. And then the panel clips, you know, they come two and a half inches long, but we also sell'em a 12 foot or six foot long as well. In case you had like a, a shop die wall that was, you know, milled in a shop and it's perfect and you just wanted to hang a flat panel on it real quick. You can still use our Z clip for that also.

Jacob Edmond:

Right. Okay. and some of the you know, more minute details that maybe people might, might not realize. So it looks like your clip also has a slope on the clip itself, where they engage with each other.

Dave Doran:

That is correct. Yep.

Jacob Edmond:

And, and they actually engage with each other. So I know there are some Z clips that are, are just like

Dave Doran:

Flat.

Jacob Edmond:

a bent

Dave Doran:

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

Flat. And there is some, some give some slop there. Right. These actually engage fully with each other?

Dave Doran:

That's correct. Yeah. And I, I've found that it's, it's easier to clip it this way. That's why I went with this design. That doesn't mean like down the road if folks wanted a specific extrusion for, say, I like my ceiling panel panels to be flat and not have that bevel, we, we're open to manufacturing new stuff in the future. This is just us getting started eight weeks ago. You know? And the, the other thing I'd like to point out, Jacob, is, um, when, when you have your, your shims like this, right, with flat shims, sometimes they'll bend out and get in the way of the panel clip and, and the installers fight it. I, I don't know if you can see this, but with the bevel, the, the shim is never in the way of the clip ever. Right? It's always set back so you're never fighting any of the flat shims that could be bowed out or, or in the way of the panel clip. Another benefit to it.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah, that makes sense. And there is positive alignment, uh, as far as once that fully engages, it's actually sitting on a, it looks like a horizontal point.

Dave Doran:

Correct? Yeah. Yep.

Jacob Edmond:

Of the clips..

Dave Doran:

Yep.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah. And I know those are, some of this is stuff that the installers out there are gonna have those questions, but a lot of others that maybe aren't familiar aren't gonna realize those minor differences between the, the

Dave Doran:

products. Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

So you, you talked about also horizontal solutions like ceiling panels, so this can be used for ceiling

Dave Doran:

panels as well? It can, and I have, yep. Um, the, the trick with the ceiling panel in any ceiling system you, you do is you, you get your engagement, but you always wanna have a, like a, a flat tab at the end of your panel or on the sides of your panel that's exposed. That you can actually stack a flat shin behind and, and screw it directly into the structure above so that it doesn't move or slide ever or fall.

Jacob Edmond:

Yep. So the, the clips are holding it gra from gravity and then you've got something positively engaging it from sliding

Dave Doran:

sideways. Yeah, exactly.

Jacob Edmond:

Well, uh, I think what's impressive to me is just ultimately how simple this solution is. And really it's a lot of times when you have some something new and innovative like this, there's a learning curve and you know, kind of hesitance of like, well, we gotta change how we do things. And really you don't have to change anything that much with if people, if you're already using Z Clips, it's essentially plug and play. It just makes the installation process

Dave Doran:

easier. That's right. Yeah. And, and there's nothing like having it in your hands. So we, we will send samples out to anybody who wants it. The group of guys that I grew up were very picky, and they have their systems, right, like the old fellas, like, change is hard. But this is not a hard change. You know, this is real simple. Once you get your hands on it once, I don't think anybody's ever going back to the old way, you know?

Jacob Edmond:

That's awsome.

Dave Doran:

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

Can you tell me a little bit more about, you know, what do you, you see, obviously now you guys are building this, you get raising awareness, you're getting it in people's hands. You have clients already using this product, you're using this product. You know, at this point you're an inventor. You're, you've created a product from nothing. Right. Do you find, do you see in the future there's other things like this, that now you're motivated. Okay. Are there other innovations or other products that you see launching in the future, or is it really just, Hey, let's get this out in, in the hands of, of people to, to solve this problem?

Dave Doran:

Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm constantly day in, day out, trying to improve processes. Like right now I'm running, uh, a very, very large project and there's always things that can be done better. I'm constantly learning, constantly doing things wrong, and then trying to figure out how, how can we improve? And, uh, I'm definitely not shutting that side down for Seven Degrees. I'm actually excited about any new process or thing that I, I can come up with the future and, and use Seven Degrees to help bring that to the industry. The, the, these systems are also used on exterior panels, you know, uh, of, of large buildings. Just a larger format, and I think the design intent of the infinity moving it in and out will, will translate well into exterior systems as well.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah. I didn't ask this, but how did you land on Seven Degrees specifically?

Dave Doran:

I was just playing with this in Bluebeam and I wanted the length of it to be similar to the size of the CRL plastic horseshoe shim. I didn't want it any longer, so I kept playing with the angle and I think I mocked up 6.75 degrees in my garage and I was like, oh, seven degrees. And then I just asked my wife, what do you think of Seven Degrees Solutions? And she says, that sounds cool. So I went with it.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah.

Dave Doran:

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

So what do you see, you know, looking forward in the future of our industry? Obviously you've, you've been doing this a long time and through that experience is, you know, this was one of your consistent pain points that you, you developed a

Dave Doran:

solution for, Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

but we, we have endless other things like this that are

Dave Doran:

causing Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

headaches for us in our industry. But looking forward now, um, what do you see in the future for our industry as far as innovation and technology that that's opportunity out

Dave Doran:

there. Oh man. I think the future is so bright. I just think back to 25 years ago when I actually started, setting elevations with water levels downtown San Francisco and then it was a, a transit level when we finally bought one and now it's, everybody's using lasers, right? Job sites used to be like, littered with extension cords wrapped this everywhere. Now everybody's got a battery. Um, the invention of, blue beam, which is just amazing to me. So, AutoCAD esque that, uh, our industry, the builders itself and the inventions that are still left out there to be figured out is just endless. I have three sons, one's already in the trade, one's in college, thinking about becoming a project manager in the trades. I have one in the army who, who thinks he's gonna get out and, and join the trades as well. So I don't think AI is taking over construction yet. Uh, as far as the guys are actually doing the physical work and, and there's so much out there that can be improved on. It's, it's. It's exciting actually.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah, it's interesting how, it's almost a lot of ways, I think, you know, you mentioned AI and a lot of times we have a fear and it seemed like for the last maybe 10, 20 years, that the pendulum had swung very far towards, okay, how are we gonna leverage technology and machinery and things to automate out people? And it's almost like the pendulum has swung so far the other way that now. A lot of the things that software and AI and stuff have helped us do, if, if anything reinforces how much we need people in the building that are doing the work, that are putting it on the walls, that are putting it together.

Dave Doran:

Oh yeah,

Jacob Edmond:

You can CNC parts that still have to be assembled and you, they still have to be delivered to the job site.

Dave Doran:

That's right.

Jacob Edmond:

And still have to be installed and all that stuff. And so, if anything, the need is higher than ever for skilled

Dave Doran:

Oh yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

humans in the trades.

Dave Doran:

Yeah. And I just love what Mike Rose is doing out there, like getting the word out about, hey, the trades are, the trades really where it's at in, in the future. Yeah. It, it, it, the trades have a bright, bright future in my opinion. Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

Awesome. Well, Dave, I really appreciate you coming on and, and sharing with us all about Seven Degree Solutions. For those that are listening now and they're curious to find out more, what is the best way for people to, to find out about your product and to contact

Dave Doran:

you? Yeah, just go to, uh, www seven degree solutions.com. There's a request a quote button that you can push. There's three videos on there. They're pretty cool. Uh, one, one is just like a description of how it works. Two is myself and my son going head to head on the time of video. and then the third is a 3D video that really explains the, the shimming process a little bit more in depth. You can request a, a quote or you can ask for a sample or you can go find me on LinkedIn and ask me any questions. Um. I'll make myself available for anybody who wants to talk or chat about it.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah. Awesome. We will link that in the show notes. So if you're listening to this, you should be able to go around and click on the, the website link and, and get there directly. Dave, I'm, I'm super excited to see, I know this product's gonna be successful and

Dave Doran:

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond:

love, having people like you on that are innovating in our field.

Dave Doran:

Thanks Jacob. Yeah. We're, we're also, um, trying to get set a booth set up at, Las Vegas. A-W-S-F I think. Yeah. Yeah, we're working with them, so we should be there in July 22nd to the 25th, I believe. If anybody wants to stop by. Thanks so much for having me, Jacob.

Jacob Edmond:

Yeah. Thank you.

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