Verify In Field: The Millwork Podcast

Cabinet Vision Mastery: Bruce Chezem on Industry Innovation and Education

• Marketing • Season 2 • Episode 18

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 In this episode of Verify In Field, host Jacob Edmond sits down with Bruce Chezem, longtime Cabinet Vision consultant, shop owner, educator, and host of the Cabinet Vision Minute podcast. From his start in cabinetmaking as a young firefighter to running his own shop during the Great Recession and now helping hundreds of businesses optimize their software and workflows, Bruce has seen it all.  

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Bruce Chezem

The people in your shop are your greatest resource. they may or may not be behind you, but I can pretty well guarantee the likelihood of them being behind you and included in your vision for where your business is gonna go. The chances are gonna be a lot greater if you actually include them.

Jacob Edmond

Welcome back to Verify in Field everybody. This week I have Bruce Chezem with me. He is a Cabinet Vision consultant trainer, and an advocate at Craftsman Woodworks Engineering service. He also has his own podcast, Cabinet Vision Minute, which you may have seen on YouTube or where you listen to podcasts. So I'm excited to have Bruce on today to hear about his background, his story in the industry and talk shop. So thanks for joining me today, Bruce.

Bruce Chezem

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This is a new experience for me.

Jacob Edmond

Yeah, absolutely. Maybe to get started, could you just give us a little bit of a background on how you got started in woodworking and software for the cabinet industry?

Bruce Chezem

Well, going back to my early twenties I think is, I started as a young man, like most young men do in the industry. And I knew somebody who had a cabinet shop and I was a firefighter for the state of California actually. And in the off season I needed something to do because that work is seasonal. And a friend of mine had, or actually another an engineer at the station, had a shop. I was looking at my future in boat building of all things. And so I was trying to line up a position at a company in Southern California. And I needed some cabinet making experience. So that's where I got started in woodworking, back in Grass Valley, California in my early twenties. Expanding expanding on that a little bit and moving forward sometime I later moved to Sacramento after that and I started. My, my education, I started, I went to Sac State to seek my degree in management Information Systems is really a business degree with a concentration in management information systems. So right there is kind of, you know, my, my loose foundation for where I was gonna go with two separate career paths. So that's kind of how that whole separate career path thing started that I'm sure we'll about several times during this conversation.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. Okay, so you were working as a fireman and you ended up in Sacramento pursuing a like a management degree. And you also had started working in a cabinet shop. Is that right?

Bruce Chezem

That's correct. Yeah. I only worked at that cabinet shop in Grass Valley for not a long time. Back in those days, everything was pretty simple. But like a whole lot of young, cocky guys, I got to the point where I, I knew more than the boss. And so I went out and I opened I, I went down to the local Sears catalog stores that they had in those days, and I bought a bunch of shop equipment. I bought a table saw and, and a radio alarm saw. you know, routers and sanders and everything was craftsmen from Sears. And that's, that was my first uh, beginnings so I moved all that down to Sacramento when I moved. And I rented some space. It was really just a garage in somebody's backyard. And that was my first shop in Sacramento, and I did that while I was, going to school.

Jacob Edmond

Okay. And so you were taking on work, was it, were you building cabinets, taking on cabinet jobs or just any type of woodworking?

Bruce Chezem

Pretty much I was trying to come up with a product. And so, I was leaning into furniture for the computer industry, which was, which is coming up new. There was a lot of computer stores back in those days. And you could go in and this is, before the internet and before a lot of stuff. This is back in the infancy of desktop computings, you know, you remember Apple 2.

Jacob Edmond

Mm-hmm.

Bruce Chezem

All those things that came out during that time. And so there was a lot of stores down in the San Francisco Bay area. There were some here in the Sacramento area. And I started creating computer furniture that I would put models of it in the back of my pickup truck and go talk to some of these stores and see if they would buy some of my furniture. Some did and some didn't. And that was kind of the start. And I also was making light fixtures for some lighting companies and that kind of thing. So it wasn't really cabinets per say, but it was more, furniture. But it certainly, it had its roots in, uh, cabinets.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. So how do you get from there? Obviously, I assume you, you finished your studies at Sac State at some point. And how do you get from, from there to Cabinet Vision Consultant?

Bruce Chezem

Well the time,

Jacob Edmond

Yeah.

Bruce Chezem

Of course. But, um. I did work a, a lot in in software engineering and I, I started work actually after about the time I, finished school. I started at a company that was not at all software related. It was a company that did precast concrete, panels for high rise buildings. So they had business all over the company called Techon Pacific. And what I did for them was I was uh, basically a construction person. So I built frames or forms for concrete for these precast concrete panels. I knew I didn't want do that forever, and I knew I wanted to get off into my world of software. And so this company called cable data posted a job that I was interested in, but it was um, cable data was obviously, a tech company that dealt in the computer or in the cable industry, and they provided software for the cable industry. But they had a position, they had their own cabinet shop, which was, this is cool. I applied, I got the job, and, and that was really the beginning of my entry into or transitioning from cabinets to software because I worked uh, in their beautiful cabinet shop. I mean, it was the, it was big. It was uh, a lot of modern equipment. It was air conditioned and heated, and that's something of course, we don't see a lot anywhere in the United States. It got to the point where this position came up in their core business, which was you know, more software related. It was a software support role. I applied for the job. I got it. and next thing you know I transitioned out of the shop or their furniture shop into making or into supporting their software, which was these cable companies all over the United States and Canada, and some in the uk. That's kind of how I got into software. Now, what does, that go from a a a to cabinet vision consultant? After I left that company. I then I later contacted one of my colleagues there and we opened. I said, Hey, you wanna open a cabinet shop together? And he said, yes, I absolutely do. And so together he and I opened Craftsman Woodworks in Rancho Cordova, a suburb of California here, and or suburb of Sacramento. And that was my first, introduction into the world of software for cabinets because we used Cabinet Ware, which was then a competitor of Cabinet Vision. Vero Software later bought Cabinet Ware and they shelled it.

Jacob Edmond

Yep.

Bruce Chezem

So I understand you know, a lot of companies do that. And so, a while um, that you recalled the great recession of 2008, 2009 we closed down So I started working for some other companies that used Cabinet Ware, but also some other companies that used Cabinet Vision. So back then is about, 2008, 2009 is when I started, my first exposure to Cabinet Vision.

Jacob Edmond

So you and a friend who opened your own cabinet shop through that, you started. You use Cabinet ware for your own shop. Before the recession, had you guys, did you guys transition to Cabinet Vision within your shop or you still continued using Cabinet Ware?

Bruce Chezem

No, we were strictly a Cabinet Ware.

Jacob Edmond

Okay. And then once you started consulting and working with other shops, is that when you started switching over and working with Cabinet Vision specifically as well?

Bruce Chezem

Exactly right.

Jacob Edmond

Okay.

Bruce Chezem

And I worked in various capacities, I was a designer drafter for a pretty big company down in the Bay Area. Another company back up towards Grass Valley. I was a, an estimator for them that's kind of where I got my start in estimating and my interest in estimating was at that time.

Jacob Edmond

How long did you and your friend have that shop before the recession?

Bruce Chezem

We opened in about 2005, so it was, three to three, four years. Before it was funny'cause I was looking around and there was a shops closing left and right. And we were doing good. We were doing real good. I didn't understand that. How come we're doing good and these other shops are starting to fall like dominoes. So I, I had the false impression that we were, you know, this wasn't gonna affect us until it did. And it did like overnight. And so we had uh, dunno, I'd say or five big projects coming through, and we were totally a one lane linear operation. So, If we had one job fall apart, that was not good. Well, we had all our jobs fall apart. They lost their funding. They, for whatever reason, the recession hit hard to my customers, and that meant the recession hit hard with us as well. So we closed that shop in 2000, I guess it was the beginning of 2009. And, we had a good run. But we weren't, we couldn't sustain ourselves because we had a lot of debt. I think the companies that weren't falling at that time, and the companies that I subsequently went to work for were the companies that didn't have debt.

Jacob Edmond

Yep. I think that's still true today. The, a lot of the shops that, are able to make it through any given recession. It's, they're able to weather the storm through already being established, not having debt, having, all their assets are basically, paid for most likely. Okay.

Bruce Chezem

Good on'em. Yeah, exactly.

Jacob Edmond

So now full-time, you're doing today Cabinet Vision Consulting and your podcast and work really educating the industry, it seems right? Can you tell us a little bit about the work you do today? What type of shops do you work with? What type of services do you provide?

Bruce Chezem

Somebody calls me on the phone, they need some help with Cabinet Vision and uh, so I, they tell me about their business and I tell'em about what I do. And so that goes something like this. I provide generally

Jacob Edmond

Yeah.

Bruce Chezem

three different types of services when one is training and that training isn't necessarily. Cabinet Vision training per se, like you'd get from Cabinet Vision when you buy the product, and you request some training from them. They show you how to use Cabinet vision, how to move around, how to navigate within the program, what it can do, and what it can't do. That's not what I do. I don't have a curriculum or a structured agenda rather for the type of training that I provide. Mine is more of how can I help you use this tool, this modeling tool Cabinet Vision more effectively in your business. We schedule two hour training sessions and we, start in on whatever's, you know, whatever I can help them with. And it doesn't matter who they are. They could be a, a small mom and pop shop. They could be a big company with, 30 of Cabinet Vision and I work with all of those. So that's, you know, one thing I do is training. So the other thing I do is what I call consulting what, it's basically training on steroids more often than not. But it could be uh, project oriented as well. So in other words a shop company may, want a catalog built of their products. And that could be just a catalog of cabinets. I've done a lot of those. But it could be very specific. There's a there's a company, I won't tell you who they are, but they're pretty close to here in the down in the Bay Area. They make all the check stands and store furniture for Trader Joe's and just Trader Joe's. Every state in the union has a Trader Joe's and they're big cities, and so they, they make all those wierd looking check stands you see when you go to a Trader Joe's. So they have a catalog of course of their products as well. And, And that's not your normal cabinet box, right?

Jacob Edmond

Yeah.

Bruce Chezem

That has very specialized functions as well. So can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different organizations. It really depends on their product and where they want to go. But it could be more than just Cabinet Vision, it could be integrating, with Cabinet Vision for one of those products. So they could be using Allmoxy. They have a dealer network or something that they want to use Allmoxy for. So they have a online uh, display of their products and their dealers will send transmit work to the production facility, the cabinet shop for working. And so there's, how can Bruce, how can you help us integrate with Allmoxy? We're getting some problems working there, or Closet Pro or something like that, where we're working with an integration or there's, many types of integrations.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. So you're working, it sounds like very targeted, specific to each client on how you can help them get what they're trying to get or what they need from the soft. It's not, it's not a one size fits all type of consulting or instruction. But from your experience now, you've worked with, I'm sure many different clients what are some of the most common struggles or questions that shops have, when they're first adopting cabinet vision?

Bruce Chezem

There's probably a couple different answers to that. And that's really dependent on the type of client they are. Or the type of user they are. And let's say and I'll break this down into seasoned users who have been using Cabinet Vision for a long time or other software. And there are new users and I find that, those worlds, those ways of thinking or looking at the product is a little bit different. So it seems like shops that have been using Cabinet Vision for a long time are carrying over a whole lot of, I call it baggage from when they first learned to use the product. And the product has evolved immensely. I love Cabinet Vision and I have absolutely no skin in the game. I don't work for Hexagon. I never have. But I can tell you that it's well written. It's has a lot of elegant features. But it's, it hasn't always been that way. So the user community of these. Older legacy installations of Cabinet Vision. They have a lot of things that they learn how to do, when Cabinet Vision couldn't do all the things it could do now.

Jacob Edmond

Yep.

Bruce Chezem

So that's created, a lot of habits that have been carried for forward, even though Cabinet Vision may do some of those things that it couldn't do originally.

Jacob Edmond

So I mean, And I'm wondering if maybe you could give, you know, maybe just a single scenario or example of that.'cause I know we've encountered a lot of companies that it seems like the jump from 11 to what came after is a big milestone for a lot of people. And I still know a lot of shops that are still. Hey, we're staying with 11. We haven't made the jump. They're fearful of that, that next leap beyond there, which, you know, now there's 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 out. But, is there a specific example you can give of that, one of those things that, cabinet vision maybe didn't use to do or an old limitation that people still carry with them, but the newer versions have remedied that somehow.

Bruce Chezem

Yeah, I think the notion of, of connections is something that is new, newer to Cabinet Vision, newer than 11 is, so the notion of connections existed in 11, but it wasn't something that was really, it was handled in a different way. So a connection is basically what happens between two pieces of material.

Jacob Edmond

Right.

Bruce Chezem

How does this adjustable shelf attach to this this panel, this vertical partition or whatever. Typically that would be a set of line bore holes or something. And so, that line, bore hole is a connection. It has a function on this vertical piece. And it also has something that we need to do on this horizontal piece as well. That really controls where these line boar holes go, et

Jacob Edmond

Yep.

Bruce Chezem

But that was handled much differently in 11 than it is now. Now we have a thing called a connections manager. And it's really a I use the word elegant a lot. When I describe some of these things, it walks you through how to build connections with different things. Now, some connections are more complicated than other connections. Now we could handle like a simple dado in Cabinet Vision 11 quite easily. But now what if we wanted to do a dado along with some pilot holes? On the outside of that dado. Well, that was kind of a complicated thing. And we had to I know you've had Jonah Coleman on your podcast several times. He can talk about, some of the UCSs he used to write

Jacob Edmond

Yeah.

Bruce Chezem

that did some of those cool things like combining a dado with a series of pilot holes to make that happen. The notion of connections again, now you can do that without the aid of a UCS. And you know, that's, that's a whole nother topic I could talk about is UCS is why I think Cabinet Vision originally had UCSs and. And how I, I believe that the whole notion of UCSs is really a, an oversold feature of Cabinet Vision. And, but it's something that really puts a lot of worry and consternation and to some users it's okay, I have to learn how to make a UCS so that I can use cabinet vision effectively. I'm here to tell you, you do not. So that's, but I think that's really one of evolutions Cabinet Vision now. It's like we really need to put notion of UCSs on the back burner for most users.

Jacob Edmond

Right.

Bruce Chezem

And let's learn how to use Cabinet Vision. It, it learn how to use its core features and functions. It really does a lot that some of the legacy users to, to circle back to your original question here. Some of the original users thought were very important, and so when these users are moving up to some of the newer versions of Cabinet Vision, they think, okay. These UCSs are giving me problems now, or some, they're not working like they used to or they're doing double duty. I can't I can't figure out why this thing is happening. A lot of, you know, there, there's a lot of, a whole set of problems with legacy users that don't occur necessarily with newer users.

Jacob Edmond

Yeah, I found the same thing, happens with the other, so micro develop and some of the other softwares as well is it's UCS is, it seems like as one of the things that people think, I've invested in this, I've created all these things that we use on a day-to-day basis. And they assume we need to carry these with us because this is the only way to keep doing business the way we do it, or keep doing connections the way we do it. And a lot of times if they were to come in fresh as a first time user, either A, the way they did do things now isn't necessary anymore, or B, there's a better solution that gives them a better result. But. It's the sunk cost fallacy of I'm either tied into it'cause I've put effort into it and I'm comfortable with it. I know it, it's like my comfort zone or B, that problem has now been solved in a different way. And you've got it there.'cause Microvellum similarly came out in the last few years with a new library that they've been building on and there's a lot of users that have invested in their. Their development previously, they're like, I don't know if I can make the jump. I'm gonna lose all this progress I've made. And it's, there's a lot of things that have been solved that didn't, you don't have to deal with anymore. And now they're already built in.

Bruce Chezem

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think it it's a big, it's a big subject and it's a, it's really a big, it's a source of a lot of problems. I can't tell you how many users to me and are asking, they've just finally thrown up their hands as my, it's my database is just trash now. It's so massive. How can we delete some of these, some of the stuff in there? It's huge. I need to delete stuff. No you don't. Please don't do that. Really, I think what we need to do is let's go back to some fundamental things here and let's talk about that. But let's not throw the, the baby out with the bath water and start over again. You've got a lot of good data in there that you've built this business from. So let's. Let's sort out we don't want to use and let's start using what we have more effectively.

Jacob Edmond

Right. You mentioned that you also, so not only do you help consult and train people on just using Cabinet Vision for how they need it, but also sometimes on integrating it with their business.

Bruce Chezem

Yeah.

Jacob Edmond

What are some examples or ways that you work with shops on, for example, you know, integrating Cabinet Vision and their engineering tools with production.

Bruce Chezem

That, that's a good question. Um.

Jacob Edmond

I mean, I know Cabinet Vision has, screen to machine and there's a lot of, and every shop's a little bit different. You know, some may be also pairing it with Alphacam, for example, for more custom stuff. Or, maybe they're able to do things in Cabinet Vision. That they don't realize they can do now in Cabinet Vision that maybe they used to use an auxiliary software or an offline process for. Do you ever find examples of where you're helping people simplify, Hey look, you can actually do this in a simpler way within the same tool versus, maybe a manual cut list or going and Wood WAP or something.

Bruce Chezem

Yeah, I, there's I've got so many stories to tell about that. I'm trying to figure out where I can start there. Yeah. One of the things that, again, I'm gonna talk about Jonah Coleman for a minute. He was, he's not, in the Cabinet Vision world any longer, of course, but he,

Jacob Edmond

His shadow remains.

Bruce Chezem

shadow remains and his legacy remains. And the interest in what he's done remains also. But, to his credit, he has really, engineered or reverse engineered what Cabinet Vision can do. I think know, my contribution, picking up where Jonah has left off is, he's very technical person and a lot of the stuff that he's done is um, maybe over the heads of a lot of users, including me. I'm still trying to figure out some of the stuff he's done, but the essential, the basis of what he's done is in the in some of the fundamental stuff of what Cabinet Vision can do. And what I'm trying to get at is that the simple notion of editing the shape of a part that's kind of the. The groundwork of where Jonah has taken his his work in doing uh, die walls and so forth. Cabinet vision, can, does a basic box real well but a die wall is really a basic box. It's just the parts of it have been substituted and edited and changed. And that's really all that is just morphing the parts that are presented as a basic cabinet and turning that into something that. It doesn't look like a basic box, but really it is. It's, its ancestor is, that basic cabinet, right? Or upper or whatever it's, It's parent is or grandparent in that genesis. So, that, I think that integration that you're referring to there is really more of a is not an integration at all. It's really. Going down the path of exploring, what Cabinet Vision can do in terms of filling out your library and molding itself to how you do business, what your product is. I think one of the big mistakes that a lot of new users have with Cabinet Vision is they feel like they need to. Mold their business, mold their product into whatever Cabinet Vision can do. Okay out of the box, it does base cabinets and uppers and talls. So therefore what I'm going to do with my business is make base cabinets, uppers and talls know, in its most basic form and. It seems the estimating part of it is very complicated, so I'm not gonna use that part. I'm gonna continue using my spreadsheet for that. And so what they've done is essentially they've started a business they've got some software and they're trying to make their business work like the software rather than the other way around. By that, I mean that Cabinet Vision should be it's a tool to model the real world. It Cabinet Vision models the real world, we need to embrace that. Let's look at. Think about the example I had a minute ago with the trader Joe's, cabinets. That's still, it's the genesis is basically a, a basic base cabinet, but they've edited parts, added them to their library, included those, save those objects to their catalog so forth and so on. So there's, there's many ways to do that. But essentially, cabinet vision will model your product. It's a fantastic tool for that. I hope I didn't get too off

Jacob Edmond

No, that's great.

Bruce Chezem

answer there.

Jacob Edmond

You alluded to a little bit there about, the estimating capabilities or the, there, there are some estimating capabilities and not everybody uses them in Cabinet Vision. Correct.

Bruce Chezem

Yeah. And that's really been I got some good stories to tell about that as well.

Jacob Edmond

Is that a part of your scope of things you, you consult with and help people on is the estimating side of Cabinet Vision?

Bruce Chezem

I do, well, I actually have a store, an online store. It's called Cabinet Vision Packages. That's it's essentially data products for Cabinet Vision. One of those, my first product in the store is called the Cost plus Bid Center. That takes advantage of, it's not a separate add-on for Cabinet Vision. I don't do that. I just create data for Cabinet Vision that uses cabinet vision, door catalogs or drawing template libraries and so forth. That's the kind of things that are in my online store is data products. So back to estimating for a moment. I started creating and playing around with estimating because I know Cabinet Vision is certainly capable of estimating, but the way that most people think about cabinet vision is, it's a drawing tool first. So to get to an estimate, the common thinking was that as a cabinet vision user, I have to draw the job up before I can tell you how much it's gonna cost. How ridiculous is that? You could spend 40 hours drawing up this, 10,000 square foot. House full of cabinets and that's taking you 40 hours and your time is worth, don't know, pick a number a hundred dollars an hour. So that's,$4,000 right there just to, of your time for a job that you may not get. So that's we don't want to work like that. We wanna give an estimate that is accurate and reflects all your production cost, you know, all the elements that go into an estimate let's do that quickly and efficiently, and. Without having to draw the whole damn thing up. And so that's what I came up with. Now, how did I do that? It was because of some of the things that I saw with Allmoxy and Closet Pro. And how is that related to an estimate? It's because of the way they transmit their data to cabinet vision through the ORD files and the ORDX files. It basically fills out this order entry screen that everybody has who uses Cabinet Vision, but probably doesn't use. And so I thought, okay, if I could fill out that order entry screen, i'm not drawing anything up. It's just a, it's just a manifest really, of all these cabinets and parts and whatever. I could get an estimate from that, and so I looked into that further, and so I came up with a way to just simply fill out that form. Drag things over from a catalog at, put'em in there. If I need to modify each line item, if I, need to change change it from a door and drawer base cabinet to a to a bank of four drawers, or put a paneled end on one end, I can do that as well. It has all the features and functions of Cabinet Vision normally. I just haven't put them on a wall anywhere. so that's, that's the essence right there of what I call a no draw estimate. So then I took that even further and I started building out, the cost plus bid center with all the, bid methods and so forth. And I sell that in my store in my online store as a data package that you can use. Now, I've taken a lot of assumptions in that because a lot of what must be included in that is labor costs, I'm in Sacramento, California, and our labor costs are X, whereas you are in, pick a city, USA, Boston, Massachusetts, and your, your labor costs are much different than mine. But so is your organization. So I give you the tools and the guidelines and the paperwork and the documentation to allow you to modify all that, for your business. But at least I'm giving you the foundation. I'm giving you a baseline that you can start from, and I'm giving you a structure that makes sense so that you can include all four basic elements of any estimate, whether you're doing jobs for Trader Joe's or whether you're a residential shop doing beat it inset base frame for who knows, it's, it works for darn near everybody.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. So that's available on your store today. Among other things it sounds like You also have a podcast in a video series called A Cabinet Vision Minute. Um,

Bruce Chezem

Yes.

Jacob Edmond

Can you tell us a little bit about about that? How, why did you start a cabinet vision? How did that come about?

Bruce Chezem

I think that the genesis of that really kind of goes back before where I before I started Craftsman Engineering. I actually worked, I don't know if you remember, there was a nationally syndicated radio show on the weekends called This Week in Tech. Leo LaPorte got on the national radio every week and talked about everything tech. What Apple is doing and what, Oracle, is it, whatever. I went to work for Leo in his studio in Petaluma, California. I was their engineering manager. So I, you know, it's setting up cameras in the studio and they did about 30 hours of content, this all video podcasting. Even back in the day when podcasting was in its infancy, he, Leo didn't like to use the word podcast for video.'cause really podcasting back then was just an audio only experience. But in that studio he did net casting and net casts. That term never took off, obviously. But he did all kinds of shows related to something in tech and, he had a lot of hosts also. But anyhow, that's, that was my start in podcasting. And so I kind of knew what I needed to do as far as, you know, setting up a microphone on what's good equipment and what's not. And and I, but I, it really gave me the confidence, I think, more than anything to come into this and take advantage of that as a communication tool, as a way to, train, help train and teach cabinet companies how to better manage their company. So consequently probably do more recording of videos than I really do of putting out a Cabinet Vision Minute podcast. I'm really behind right now in, in the content that I wanna put out as far as a Cabinet Vision Minute.

Jacob Edmond

Mm-hmm.

Bruce Chezem

but I'm putting out, I don't know I'd say uh, eight hours a week at least, of videos that are not publicly posted. And these are recordings that let's say Jacob, you're a, you're a client of mine. I record this session. I send you the recording. I send you a link to the recording after we're done, so that you can save this for your library and you can show your your people in your shop. This is what, this is how you do make a, a door catalog or this is how we do door pricing or working on some matrix for something, you know, and whatever the subject is, it's recorded. I hang onto that myself for every encounter that I have. Funny thing is, is that I use those topics. A lot of the topics that we talk about in training sessions really get, I think about that. That'd make a good topic for a Cabinet Vision Minute uh, episode. And you know, I have a series that's still in production of its third part my door series. You know, this is like a four hour series altogether just on doors on the door manager. You wouldn't think that would be such a, a lengthy topic. And it's not because I like to talk, It's because the topic is so, can be so complex, but to give you the ability to hang onto that I think has a lot of value.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. Um, And so people can go and see that I believe on YouTube and where's the best place for them if they want to go and see your content.

Bruce Chezem

YouTube is, is the spot for, all Cabinet Vision content or any content. University of YouTube, right? You can learn anything. You can learn how to uh, become an auto mechanic on YouTube. but you can't necessarily search YouTube How do I make MDF doors in Cabinet Vision on YouTube? Maybe you can, I don't know. I haven't tried that one I can guarantee that if you go to my website, which is a better for finding videos not only for a Cabinet Vision Minute, but other. Videos that I've added to the website, about various Cabinet Vision topics and the reason I put'em on my website, or I put the links on there their YouTube links and tag them. I tag them on my website so you can search mDF doors, you can search for whatever topic. I have search tools on my website where you can find information about, you name it. Now there's always, there's a lot of creators out there creating content. So it's not the end of of your search for a topic, but it is certainly a good resource. It grows all the time. I'm always adding new content, not only Cabinet Vision Minute videos, but also videos from all around the, the internet.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. We'll, uh, we'll.

Bruce Chezem

And by the way, I also have um, a Patreon page Peeling Back Cabinet Vision where I have exclusive for some users. And so that's, Pay to watch. It's not a big fee. It's, 10 bucks if and if you not getting your money's worth out of it, then you can quit, right? And that's. A little bit more information than you could find otherwise. But that's that's a good place to find stuff as well. And I gotta take the opportunity, which I really don't take enough of those opportunities to thank those Patreon subscribers because they really help. I know I'm not I'm only one person. I can only put out so much content and teach and do all the, and create products, etc cetera. So it takes me a while to keep up with that. But I really appreciate your support for all that. If you are one of my Patreon subscribers.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. We'll make sure we link all those things in the show notes. So if you're listening, you could, should be able to go down to the show notes and jump to his YouTube his website, and his Patreon. One more question before we wrap up. What's one thing you believe Millwork shops need to hear right now?

Bruce Chezem

I haven't talked as much about this as I really wanted to, but I think, there's several things you can do. I think my advice would be to document your world. Document what you're doing. And that, I think that's takes off from what I was talking about with, recording the videos that I do in, in training sessions, for example. That's a way of documenting your the things that you're doing in your shop. Where do you keep your job files, for example? Well, we keep'em over in the jobs folder on the server somewhere. That may be the correct answer, but it's not a very detailed answer,

Jacob Edmond

Yep.

Bruce Chezem

it's not something that you can easily pass on. And especially when you're out in the field measuring and somebody else needs to know where to get that stuff. If they had, if you have, if you've documented this someplace that's gold that saves a lot of time. And I think about, a checklist for for an airline pilot, right? They use checklist. Is the gas on, is the, you got the brakes on and, all this stuff. Check. That's the same way you gotta do for just about everything you do in a cabinet shop, I believe. And that includes, documenting your work. A documentation is really a checklist that you can refer to your muscle memory or just memory is not working so well. But it helps for training as well. And just repeating sound processes, how do you do stuff? How do, where do you keep files? What do you name them? I think another thing that people can do is build a strong second. I think a lot of young business owners come into this with a lot of ego. I did when I was young. I started the business because I thought I knew more than the boss did, which is ridiculous now looking back on it. But, that's the way a lot of things go. And so our attitude's about. We know more than our employees do, is not healthy. I think point is lean on your people. I think, in include, have a morning huddle for crying out loud. Get everybody together every morning, whether you're there or not. Vir, you can be there virtually and talk to your people and include them in your ideas and in your vision. I like to think of. The people in your shop are your greatest resource. they may or may not be behind you, but I can pretty well guarantee the likelihood of them being behind you and included in your vision for where your business is gonna go. The chances are gonna be a lot greater if you actually include them. Include them, lean on them, and think about that kid who's back there in the in the door shop somewhere, he could be your next shining star engineer, right?

Jacob Edmond

Yeah.

Bruce Chezem

He's the guy that you wanna move into the office more than somebody who's never worked for you before, who knows a whole lot about computers, for example, don't need a guy who knows about computers. There's a million of those. You need somebody who knows about your business, who's included, who understands your vision, and who knows about the world of cabinets. That's your next engineer.

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. I think that's great advice. So Bruce. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing about your background, your story. For everybody that's listening, we will link in the show notes where you can get to all Bruce's content or to reach out and find out more. If people are interested in finding out about how they can come and contact you and work with you and get some consulting or some teaching what is the best way for them to reach out to you directly?

Bruce Chezem

The best way to reach out to me directly is email. So you can email me at admin@craftsmanenengineering.com I will get back to you my website. Craftsman engineering.com has those links on there. And just doing a plain Google search for Cabinet Vision training. You'll find me at the top of the list somewhere.

Jacob Edmond

Amazing.

Bruce Chezem

yeah,

Jacob Edmond

Awesome. Thank,

Bruce Chezem

the time,

Jacob Edmond

yeah,

Bruce Chezem

and um, and appreciate talking to your, uh, listeners and viewers. It's been uh, a good hour.

Jacob Edmond

Absolutely. I appreciate it as well. Thank you for all the work you're doing to help improve the industry and teach those coming up. This valuable knowledge that you've got. So, hello, hope to have you again on in the future and stay in touch.

Contributor

Jacob Edmond

Host