Scaling with Systems. Jenny Gayfer on Culture and Automation

In this episode of Verify In Field, host Jacob Edmond sits down with Jenny Gayfer, owner of Top 40 Woodworks, an OAC certified commercial millwork company based in Canada. Jenny shares her unconventional journey from vendor representative to consultant to ultimately acquiring the very company she once supplied materials to.

With more than two decades of industry exposure, Jenny brought a rare perspective into ownership. She had seen the best and worst of millwork operations across Canada, understood the competitive landscape, and knew exactly where Top 40 stood in the market. What followed was not a quick overhaul, but a deliberate transformation focused on culture, systems, visibility, and long term strategy.

About Our Guest

Jenny Gayfer is the owner of Top 40 Woodworks, a predominantly commercial architectural millwork company with long standing national contracts and a growing multifamily presence. Before acquiring Top 40, Jenny spent over 10 years as a decorative surface and materials vendor representative, working closely with millwork shops across Canada. Top 40 was one of her largest accounts, giving her deep operational insight long before she stepped into ownership 

After years of consulting and business development for the company, Jenny and her husband acquired Top 40 and began a comprehensive internal restructuring. Since then, she has led the implementation of an ERP system, adopted EOS from the book Traction, redefined the leadership team, and repositioned the company for scalable growth.
What You Will Learn

1. Why culture must come before systems
    Jenny’s first priority was not software or machinery. It was people. She personally interviewed every employee to understand strengths, mindset, and growth potential before making structural changes.
2. The underestimated challenge of change management
    Implementing an ERP system while restructuring a company revealed that the hardest part of transformation is not technology, it is helping people adapt.
3. How visibility changes everything
    Before ERP implementation, scheduling lived in one employee’s head 
4. The power of combining ERP and EOS
    Energy provided operational control and data visibility. EOS provided communication rhythm, accountability, and alignment. Together, they created structure across both production and leadership.
5. Why automation alone is not the competitive edge
    Jenny believes automation will become standard across the industry. The real differentiator will be communication, collaboration, and understanding general contractors, developers, and integrated project delivery systems.
6. From technician mindset to strategic leadership
    Drawing from The E Myth and Traction, Jenny explains the difference between being an excellent technician and becoming an effective manager or visionary leader.
7. Forecasting as a survival tool
    With long lead times in commercial projects, the ability to analyze market trends, housing cycles, tariffs, and political shifts is critical to steering a millwork company toward stability and growth.
8. Why custom millwork i

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Transcript

Jenny Gayfer 0:00

I don't think machinery's sexy it's a end to a means. Are a means to an end, and so to me though the project management side of it the systems that to me is sexy.

Jacob Edmond 0:20

Welcome back to Verify and Field everybody. Today I have the owner of Top 40 Woodworks with us Jenny Gaffer, and they are an AWMAC certified millwork company working out of Canada. And I appreciate having you come on and tell us a little bit about your story and the work you guys do. Jenny.

Jenny Gayfer 0:36

Hi Jacob. Story work we do, we're probably 80% commercial millwork. Architectural millwork and we do some store fixtures. We've had some contracts that have been upwards of 20 years. Shoppers Drug Mart is one of them. And then we have a very small residential element mainly just to service builders because we've known as builders grow up to be developers. And so we've got some, a interior designer on our team. And we just find that's really helpful to keep that tool in our belt, that skillset on our team. It's been wonderful having Jackie work with our commercial clients in doing these selections and also with our shop floor too, integrating what works on our shop floor with what the specs are.

Jacob Edmond 1:24

Awesome. You mind giving me a little bit of, or background, just how did you originally get started in millwork? How did Jenny, how did your career start in this industry?

Jenny Gayfer 1:33

Really, I think the origin is I was a vendor rep in Canada here. Was our decorative surface, so that was also their solid surface, but we also carried board. Hardware and lumber. And so that's actually how I first came across top 40. They were one of my larger actually they were my top three largest accounts. So over 10 years I came to know them as well as, all the other accounts in my territory. So it was a pretty cool experience to see how each of the, kitchen manufacturers. Commercial millwork right down to modular homes, how they used our product and how they ran their business. And yeah, it was interesting because, at that time I had over a hundred clients and when you walked in, you could either feel that kind of dusty slog vibe, just at it, or you could feel this, thrive vibe. And Top 40 was one of the companies that, it was just alive, it was progressing. And I became really good friends with the owner. And so that continued for 10 years. Then I took a hiatus for a couple years. I met someone married, had a baby, and I ended up taking a life coaching course in Vancouver, actually a one year program. And, at that time, I realized I was ready to go back to work and Jack at Top 40 had been trying to get me to work for top 40, and I knew that I didn't wanna come in as an employee. So I actually stayed up all night and wrote a business proposal for him, which was I would be a consultant and I would go out and bring him more national contracts. Store fixtures mainly. And you know how I did it where I did it, when I did it was my own business and he would just pay me a percentage and that's how I got started. So that was another 10 years of doing that with top 40. As I was doing that again gave me pretty cool perspective about what works, what doesn't. And during this time I read a ton of business books. Always attracted to business. I think the E-myth was my first, business bible. About, I guess it was about five years ago, six years ago, decided with my partner, my husband, that we were gonna buy an account or by a company and Top 40 at that time was a, oh yeah, I bet you Jack's probably ready to transition out. But didn't, it wasn't the first choice. It's a very complicated business. Our first choice actually was cabinet door manufacturer. A vinyl door manufacturer who was, ironically another one of my top three accounts. And, just such a simple formula. Take a MDF vinyl, smack it together, send it out like super simple from a business standpoint. What a great way to keep it simple Innergyet in, get out. And anyway, so that didn't work out. Jack was interested, took time, put the deal together. At that time I had very intimate knowledge about how Top 40 operated. So I had a lot of opinions about what could be done different and, it just rolled her sleeves up and went to work.

Jacob Edmond 4:58

Wow. That's one, that's a very unique story, I would say, for our industry to becoming, owner of a mill shop. And I, it's very interesting that you had, essentially it sounds like 20 years of gaining insight into this specific business. And like you said, already being able to come in, knowing intimately a lot about how it works and how you would change and improve the business, I would assume. And my next question was gonna be, was ownership always the goal? But you just described how your career progressed and obviously it probably didn't start that way, but I imagine when you were still a vendor rep, were there inklings or thoughts or dreams of wonder what if. Or was it something that just once the pieces came together it made sense? When it made sense and that's when the thought formed of, we're gonna buy a business.

Jenny Gayfer 5:45

It. I think the turning point was when there was a book, it was called Buy Them, Build. And the premise was that all these baby boomers were aging out. Innergy ot these very solid businesses with clientele, with revenue, and what a great time to come in and buy those businesses, apply modern business practices to it. And without the risk, like a startup, you have no clientele. You've got a ton of overhead. It's a pretty tough gig. Whereas we looked at it as. Yeah let's buy a business. So top 40, again, like I said, it wasn't the first choice because I knew it was pretty gnarly. Like to me it was like an intricate grandfather clock that had so many cogs and wheels and, one had to come into place exactly at the right time. The other one did. And if anything was mistimed it would all be a disaster. And it was daunting. But I also knew, because I was out there across Canada and I knew who the competition was. And I knew top Forty's reputation. I knew our internal struggles, but externally, I saw the position of top 40 compared to what was out there across Canada. And I just realized, you know what I think we could do this. There, there was many things that worked for Top 40 that was smart but there was just a lot of heavy lifting to do initially. Holy cow. The first two years I barely popped my head out of the door of the organization. Like it, it was a lot of internal restructuring bringing software in, finding an ERP system because Top 40 was. It was started as a small millwork shop. Like literally, if you look at our building it has six bays and it started in that one bay. And you can see the progression of the growth in holes in the wall. And it wasn't laid out with the intention that it would be the size it is today. Right now that's one of my biggest pet peeves is the shop floor layout which we're gonna address at some point here soon. But it, it was really that cabin in the woods that as more family members came on, we added this lean to, and a little bit here, a little bit there, but all the while there wasn't really internal plumbing, there wasn't electricity. It was it wasn't built with the end in mind, Steven, Kevin, seven habits. It really, and that's been the business ownership. Element that we brought to it was what is the end? And then let's reverse engineer, what do we need to do? And absolutely. First thing off the bat was ERP system. Like there, there was not even a schedule at Top 40. It lived in one employee's brain. If he got hit by a bus, holy cow, we would've been, oh, I mean if you won the lottery,

Jacob Edmond 8:44

Yeah. That's, I think that's really interesting also. So you know what you said about, you had a unique perspective of not only of top 40 going in, you had a confidence of what you knew but of the competition and having been a vendor up and having seen, the industry as a whole because so many owners. That I talked to, today even, are very, I think, self-conscious of are we the only ones that screwed up? Are we the only ones with these problems? And they don't get that luxury of having seen the competition. And so often I always tell them, Hey, it's not just you guys.

Jenny Gayfer 9:17

Yep.

Jacob Edmond 9:18

alone. And everybody is a lot more suffering with pains and prop problems and wounds than. Than that you see from the outside. And so I think that is a very unique perspective. That sounds like gave you confidence going in of I know what problems I need to solve, but I also know we're starting with. That's a, giving us a unique advantage. Also, you know, you clearly are very well read and had many years of planning this, and thinking about once I get a business, if I were to buy a business, how would I run it? What would be my motivation? And so you mentioned that you came in and the first two years were very much focused just inside the four walls of the business Putting, it sounds like the foundation in place of okay, what do we need to change? But you also said, you're bringing a vision of the end, planning with the end in mind, can you talk about, the struggles there, and obviously, I'm sure there was a lot of like day one, blocking and tackling of province today while also trying to plan for. The end of where you're trying to go. What were some of those things that you did in the early days to allow you to start to gain the momentum and the space to work on the future?

Jenny Gayfer 10:25

The one element that I, we under estimated. Was change management. Holy cow. There is no bigger lesson in ownership than understanding the people, the culture bringing change. You. You can't just put a ERP system in, change the shop floor layout and say, okay, everyone go, oh my gosh, I wish it was that easy. So the number one the number one thing I went to work on honestly was our culture. We, at that time when we bought the company, we had about 60 staff, and I personally interviewed every single one and it took me months and I think the very shortest one was an hour, and the longest one was three, four hours. And my questions were, why top 40? What's your background? Where did you come from? What's your superpowers? What do you want to be when you grow up? And really came to understand who was working in top 40 and what they saw as the biggest hurdles to success for top 40. And that I tell you, that was my very first person I started in our machining bay. It was crazy. Anyway he was a fellow from the Philippines. And when I asked the staff about him they said, oh yeah. Like he's a wiz kid. He knows every machine back there. And I'm like, how? And they're like, I don't know. He's just really smart. And I'm like, but how? Why? And so when I finally got him in here and started talking to him, he had a computer networking degree in the Philippines. And prior to working at Top 40 he was working at Tim Horton's in a car wash. And I was like, holy cow. He ended up becoming our lead in that department quickly. So just uncovering our, the golden nuggets out there and recognizing the staff out there that had a growth mindset versus fix and culling the herd. I know that sounds terrible to say, but you get what you put attention to. And that to me was my game plan from day one. Anyone with children and dogs it's that same you don't give attention to the negative behaviors and you praise the positive. So praising and bringing more attention and more support to the positive influences in our company and really starving out the negative ones. Is really, it took time. It's not an instant button. Also it's, it's very disruptive to fire anyone. That's not the person I am. I wanted to understand everyone first. Give them the opportunity to explain, give them the tools to grow and learn and also with what the expectations were. So it took some time to really. Make it clear that, okay, this is who we are. We're positive, we're collaborative. This isn't authoritarian and we're doing this together. And if you're an authoritarian, top down kinda person I don't think this is a fit. So we ended up losing really, ultimately two people, that it was a conscious, this isn't a fit. But that was enough. And the rest it's, it atrophy that negative behavior, those negative people, those pa it, it was crazy because at first it was our management team. It was, it was me, but pretty quick the good. Positive growth-minded people. They take care of the negative ones. And I like it. It was like watching a Petri dish when the good, positive growth-minded. They themselves, it was self-selecting. They ended up pushing out the negative mellies, the ones that were just really toxic. And so culture for me is is my number one priority as a business owner. Like we are nothing if we're not doing this together and thriving and enjoying it. That to me is our biggest priority. I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't gratifying for me. Gratifying is lifting our staff up, watching us grow. Proud mama moments. And then it just is a natural process or sequence that the company is doing better. So start the basics, as you said, the foundation.

Jacob Edmond 15:08

Yeah. That's really interesting. You talk about, you mentioned change management being. One of the toughest things. And with that you talk about kind of coaling the herd. And I think, I've been a part of companies that have acquired, and I've been seen a lot of companies that have gone through acquisitions or mergers and, a lot of times it is much easier to hire somebody new with the new vision than it is to,'cause those people ultimately, they didn't sign up to be bought. Jenny, they signed up for Top 40 before acquisition was even a thing. And a lot of times I know new leaders struggle with how do I get, the culture? How do I get those people on board with, Hey, this is the new vision, the new culture, what we're, it may be a little bit different than what the previous owner towards. Not better, not worse, not different. And. lot of times that happened, the culling happens just through that of it's hard for people to get on board with the new, when they signed up for the old and they didn't have a part in that is, and you've mentioned it sounds like very, clearly some of the way you went through that was like, encourage the positive the negative will atrophy. But were there, very conscious examples of that, of hey I had to hire somebody new for this role because the other person just couldn't get on board with the new vision.

Jenny Gayfer 16:28

I would, you know what the answer is right here. Our executive management team we're all working at this company when we bought it, but none of them were in the roles that they are now. And with the exception of one actually. And that was. Man, I it feels like it was a rocky marriage that we made it through.'Cause it, it was rocky and the, for the most part I would, no, we didn't actually bring anyone in from the outside, honestly. Production manager, he was a custom worker. And we did something wild. There was that age old head butting between production floor and engineering. And we actually took the head of engineering and made him head of operations. So suddenly his people were the production floor. And suddenly he found himself on the other side. So that was a really excellent decision. And it created a lot more empathy and understanding. Our meeting Pulse traction is we have EOS in our company from the book Traction, which is our meeting Pulse as an organization is pretty robust. We have a meeting once a week where it's the entire engineering team. And the purpose of that meeting is to get the entire team together, not just have a lead tel, the drafter that we did this wrong and this needs to be done then, and I insisted, no, it has to be the entire team and the first 15 minutes is dedicated to site. At the job site as well as production floor to have their words with the entire team about any struggles, bring pictures, bring work orders and then they leave the call. But it's so important to come together and align so short answer is no, we did not bring anyone in from the outside. Yes, that would've been like popping a pill and getting rid of that infection or that headache. But instead we just chose to eat well and exercise and do it the long way. And it feels like it's very lasting and wholesome, if that sounds right. There, there's easy buttons and there's take a pill for this. We didn't do it that way. And I feel like we're stronger because of it.

Jacob Edmond 18:46

Awesome. You've mentioned a couple things that, moving into the, once you got the foundation, things that you implemented, ERP being one of'em. I know we just, saw you at Innergy Summit, you were the mc this year and talked a lot about how. Implementing Innergy as your ERP and kind of the business transformation that's come with that. You also mentioned you guys are an EOS company. You've implemented EOS. Can you talk about those both I assume are new things since you bought the business that you implemented, which came first and how have those led to transformation in your new business?

Jenny Gayfer 19:19

I, we were doing the, we were doing the math. We bought the company April 1st, 20 21. I I was down in Pittsburgh at the Innergy Summit in June. So April, may, June, like it was mind spinning quick, Brought everyone and anyone in our company who is a techie. Even video games, I didn't care. And we had about a dozen people in the room. I said, we need an ERP system. We need a software system to run this company. Especially scheduling, especially inventory management. We need visible management. I came from, as they said, a vendor or distributor. Our management inventory management was so visible. We saw it everywhere. It was lifetime. Like to me it was nuts. That we didn't know if we had the material on the floor to build this project. And it it felt like driving down a road at night with no headlights and it's, it is curvy. So visibility was top priority. They went out in the world, came back Microsoft. Projects was one option. And the Innergy fellas, there were three of them. They were diehard, they were zealots. They were like, there's no other choice in the world. It's a software. And I was like, Innergy. And they're like, no and so I was like okay. So I looked it up, I saw there was a customer as Summit reached out and said, can I come? And I truly knew nothing. I showed up at that summit, had just bought the company. I was so green, it was nuts. And so anyways, right away for me I have to admit this might not go over so well with a lot of people in our industry, but I don't think machinery's sexy it's a end to a means. Are a means to an end, and so to me though the project management side of it the systems that to me is sexy. And when I heard Mark Sanderson talking about Harvard business cases and looking at different companies about how they succeeded and what strategies and what was their hiccups? What was their challenges? That just lit me up and I do have to backtrack because I definitely observed when I was a vendor rep and also when, for 10 years when I was out across Canada and I knew who we were up at games competition wise. It became super apparent that he who automates first wins the race. So I knew that fortunately. The owner that we bought from, he had just done a huge automation investment. So we had a store or a material handling system, cncs, edge Banders. So I felt okay, that's locked in. And that was one of the reasons I was

22:09

like, that's why Top 40 is gonna win. That's

Jenny Gayfer 22:12

why we're gonna buy this company that's been done. They're what do you call it? They're loaded, locked, and ready to shoot. So back to that, I knew we had the machinery side dialed in. That was good. I knew we didn't have the problem. We had the footprint, we had the growth group, but we didn't have. The strategy. We didn't have the scalability. How do you scale when you don't know what your inventory is or your schedule? Innergy just lit me up. I just recognized instantly these are my people. This education element, this is what we needed. That was gonna be the secret to our success. To us for sure. It was the education more than the actual software. Software. Cool. But it was the education element that Innergy offered that we could use for our staff to help with that culture, to help with that buy-in, to help with that change management. That was, yeah, that was, yeah, that was worth a million max. Don't tell Innergy I said that.

Jacob Edmond 23:18

And so it sounds like very pretty quickly early on, you said a few months in, you went to the Innergy summit and then made that decision. So do you think that was, key that you decided that early on your solution

Jenny Gayfer 23:30

Hell yes. Oh, there could have been no other way without doubt. Go.

Jacob Edmond 23:37

And what were the challenges then? Even though you made it very early, obviously you had to implement it, you had to change how you were doing business. You had to get, the system implemented. What was that process like?

Jenny Gayfer 23:46

I think just buying a new company on its own is a real challenge. Try buying a new company with, staff that are quite. Of course, as you said, like change is challenging. And then, Hey guys let's implement software. When you are scared of software, you don't use software right now. And it's not just software. It's through every aspect of our company. Kiosk on the shop floor, asking the guys on the benches. Yeah you're gonna be logging into work orders on a screen. That was intense. Oh, and can I tell you the third factor? So first, new company second, let's implement an ERP system simultaneously. Oh, and the third thing, this one's a kicker. So again, as I said, I knew the market, I knew who the players were. I also knew who I had been personally chasing from a business development standpoint and by. Within about six months, suddenly clients that had been very aloof and hard to try and land were knocking on our doors going, Hey, let's do business. And we at that time, didn't have Innergy implemented. And so it was like, oh my gosh, come on in. Yeah, sure we can do this. Because, there, there was a real feast or famine. It was a famine kind of time. Leading up to, 20 20, 21, 22 COVID, right? So we just completely just threw the doors open, said, yeah, we'll take your business. We didn't have a schedule. Remember. So March, 2023 we flipped the late switch turned Innergy everything lit up. And we're like, oh my God, what have we done? We were so oversold. It was, I like truly, even now with everything implemented, but there is no way we could do what we did. And we had this joke that we survived 2023, like the staff. It was gnarly. It was so gnarly. It was crazy. We were oversold, we were implementing Innergy. We're going through change management. We are restructuring internally. We're trying to figure out what the heck we do. How do we project manage because it was a wild west here, no. Project managers did the same process. They even cannibalized each other for install contractors or stone, like I, I swear to God, they wouldn't tell each other who their installers were, in case the other guy stole'em.

Jacob Edmond 26:23

So you mentioned that you were oversold, but at that point for the first time ever you had visibility that you were oversold.

Jenny Gayfer 26:30

Yep.

Jacob Edmond 26:30

And some tools I would've assumed of, okay, now what do we do about this and how do we prevent this from happening again? And so I think that, at least from, a lot of the clients I've spoken to and users of Innergy and implementing ERP and you mentioned this kind of all along, that you didn't have a schedule and now for the first time you do. I think that visibility of what are, what do we actually have on our plate is a huge piece of what was missing before, right?

Jenny Gayfer 26:56

Oh, forecasting being able to look at the scope of work labor hours assembly versus custom understanding. Having 2 million a month but a millions outsourced is a big difference from 2 million that's going through our production floor and even that 2 million that's going through our production floor what's the split between our case goods and our assembly versus our custom? We've got five, six custom benches. That's, times 40 hours a week. We have a limit. And so being able to finally be able to gauge that and feather it and pull work ahead, that was a game changer too. 2024 was nuts because, BC housing was on this mission to. Get as much housing out into the market. And as we know now, they actually got too much out the market.'cause now here we are 2026 and everyone's gone. What? There's too much it it´s flooded. So that's the other challenge too. We are unique in that we have a really excellent dialed in. We can do multifamily gosh, I can't even off the top of my head. Minimum a hundred kitchens. A month easy. And I think it exceeds that I should, I don't know off the top of my head. I'm not good with that kinda, but at the same time, we've got custom we have a full countertop shop and we have a metal shop. Being able to read the market, look at politics, look at, where is the economy gonna be robust in 2026? Is it gonna be multifamily like it was in 20, 24 and 25? I don't think so. So Innergy is giving us that ability to forecast the type of project and it's just unbelievable. The visibility, the control, the forecasting, the scalability. It's a game changer. Like we, we absolutely could not. Have survived if we had not done Innergy in the time that we did it.

Jacob Edmond 29:02

Amazing. You also mentioned you guys are an EOS shop. You guys have implemented that And I think a lot of those two things, Innergy and e os complement each other very well. How has that complemented implementing an ERP system with kind of just the overall transformation and change management of the business?

Jenny Gayfer 29:21

Traction as a book. Strongly recommend. Like I said I read a lot and it really did bring together and package it up. And EOS is right from that book and it's, it truly is whereas Innergy is it's like the gospel in the Bible. Like they, they just are two different, segments or areas of our company, but they're both the best. ERP Innergy is about running the company the cogs, the production, the how everything comes together. But the traction in EOS is everything that kind of surrounds it and supports it. So it's almost like the mortar or the grout or the glue or the, the coordination and it's hugely about communication. It is the tool that gives us the most efficiency. To communicate timely, not excessively, and to keep us aligned and collaborating.

Jacob Edmond 30:21

You've talked a lot about, how the business has evolved and I think, you came into buying this business with you know, it seems almost like a very clear, Mindset and mentality and vision for it. Is there any way that you feel that you, as a owner, as a leader have evolved through this process over the years of, since you've, acquired top 40?

Jenny Gayfer 30:43

oh, it's been rapid growth and learning nonstop. I would actually say my very first takeaway was because someone is an excellent technician and this goes back to the emat. Where there's three hats in a company, there's a technician, there's a manager, and there's a entrepreneur, a dreamer. Someone being an excellent technician doesn't necessarily make them a good manager. So that was something that when I recognized that someone's like an excellent technician it's a different skillset. It's a different animal to be, a great manager. And that was one of my biggest kind of epiphanies. Aside from that, like I said, the first few years was internal restructuring. I didn't put my head outside the door. I didn't wanna take top 40 to market. On the contrary it's no thanks. We'll get back to you when we've got our internal, ducks in a row. But now I feel like we've arrived and. It, it really started last year and this year, like everything is coming together in such a beautiful way. Centers a lot back to traction in EOS and it's about communication and working together. And understanding, understanding clients, understanding the industry, understanding the political forecast again, like what is up ahead with tariffs. What do we, what is gonna happen with housing, with immigration these affect a millwork company. It affects what kind of work we go for, because the majority of our jobs are a year to two years out. So we need to look into the future and start gauging what, where the market's gonna be going and where we need to start building up our resources and our staffing. So it, yeah, it's pretty, there's been so much learning it, it's fascinating. It is never boring. It is. It's like reality TV around here. It, yeah, it's super fun. Super fun, but not for the it's very daunting. It's controlled chaos. Construction industry as a whole is deadline driven. Any industry that has deadlines is stressful. There will always be stress. It will never be routine. It will never, if I had bought that door company, it probably would've been less stress. But job sites there's always hiccups, there's always something. And so that's the other big thing I realized is the type of people that we have working in our company, especially in management, they need to be agile minded. They need to. Lean into the chaos, embrace it and start finding patterns. Start finding a way to mold it, to work with it mountain biking, ride the slide. If you, you start pumping the brakes hard, you're gonna go over the handlebars. Like you, you need to be able to navigate in the chaos and make it work for you. And so that's been a really big lesson as well. Oh gosh. There's been so much growth. Jacob so much that it never stops.

Jacob Edmond 33:53

Yeah. I mean it's inspiring to hear, even just in your dialogue how it seems like it's evolved from talking about the past and talking about when you, the first couple years, how you didn't, poke your head out the door to now everything I hear you saying about The future is you have the capacity and everything you're describing is thinking about the future. We're looking towards the future about what is the economy doing? What is happening with tariffs? What is the, the industry bringing us? And I, I think that is pretty rare or unique for an owner to be in that position rather to be bogged down in the today of the problems of today. And you did say, Hey, there are problems today. There are headaches, there are things, but you clearly have the. The capacity now and our position to, as you said, Hey, I'm ready to, we're ready to take top 40 of the market and I'm actually proud to do it. And not only that, I have the space and I'm able to sit here and look out at the future to, to make sure we're steering the ship towards the best path forward. And you've done the work that, you know, Top 40, you guys as a team clearly have done the work to. position yourselves to be able to do that. And I think that, that's the biggest thing I'm taking away from it. You're, what you're just describing and I think that is a very very inspiring position and kind of story for so many that hopefully are listening because I know there are so many others that are in a similar position of, Hey, I'm acquiring a business from a founder. Which in and of itself is a huge transition But ultimately that's the goal is, hey, how can I build on a very solid foundation and take it somewhere further? And it's exciting and very inspiring to hear the story of how you guys are doing that at top 40.

Jenny Gayfer 35:26

Thank you. I just, I wanna offer some thoughts too, you about the changes in this industry. Again, I've been kicking around these shops for decades and it, there's such a reflection on technology. Again, machinery is machinery and that's one thing, like once upon a time when I was a kid, a microwave showed up, I'm dating myself or smart TVs, the cost was so expensive and, but slowly that comes down and then it becomes normalized. Everyone's got it. I think machinery in millwork shops is gonna become, it is becoming quite. Automation is becoming quite standard. But at the same time though the cost of entry into the market is way up here. So entry into the market I don't think there's gonna be as many millwork companies out there because the cost of entry is so high. As you said, the ones that are buying companies already established. It's a pretty tough gig for a guy off the bench to buy a fully automated shop. Like it's I just don't think there's gonna be as many fully automated shops in the market. And so therefore, the ones that are left standing and that are out there, I think now it becomes a game of embracing ai. Understanding GC software, things like Procore or Autodesk. Don't run away from that. Learn it. Understand it. Understand thy client. That was always my mantra from day one. Know thy client. That funny, I was thinking 20 years ago the owner of top 40 was going down to Vancouver to attend a cabinet wear. Conference or a session. It was a one day I asked him if I could come. I was just a vendor rep, but I spent a whole day learning cabinet wear and understanding it and that was when I was just a manufacturer rep, because I knew I had to understand exactly what my clients did. That is no different than a mill workshop. Understanding what GCs do, understanding what developers do. You really need to understand before you can actually intelligently help and be a part of the solution. And it, I think that's what's gonna become the differentiator in this new industry because it's gonna be an equal ballpark in terms of automation. It's gonna become the service issue, the. Communication, collaboration, and it yeah, I don't think it's gonna be simply who's got more CNCs or who's got more beam saws or who's got, a, a store automated. I, yeah, I think it's next gen. It's very much like our global workforce. It is global now. It's not just in your city, 30% of our staff is remote. I don't blink at that. I say to them, I don't care where you sit. I don't care when you work, in most occasions. I just care about the work you get done. There is definitely some positions that it is timely. They do need to be doing the work at the same hours, but I think it's just shortsighted not to look at the bigger picture.

Jacob Edmond 38:52

I appreciate that you've shared a good vision of what in the future. Changing on the flip side of that, what do you see staying the same and being consistent?

Jenny Gayfer 39:04

When we were discussing buying Top 40, we had to, do a SWOT analysis right. So China's really, your offshore is really good at building items in our industry at a very competitive, very cheap, right? So what about top 40? What about commercial Millwork insulates us from that risk? And I think the long and short of it is there's always gonna be a footprint in the ground. That is getting me millwork custom built to that footprint. Dropping it from furniture from a container onto that footprint will never be a custom fit. I think that there will always be a need for custom millwork, eh, if we were a hotel furniture manufacturer, I'd be afraid because I think that, it's offshore competition is very competitive. They can do it for less than we can. So I think it's gonna stay the same, that there'll always be custom millwork needed because of the footprint. And I also think that I keep thinking about changes, integrated project delivery systems like that. Sorry I'm talking about a change now, but This is a new way of bringing projects to market and they're becoming more prevalent. In talking with a lot of people in our market it's gonna become the new norm. And in that they're asking trades to step up and be involved earlier in the project and actually be almost like a design build partner. So they're always. Consultants, owners are always gonna need that subject matter expert from that commercial millworker. We are the, it's not if it's when millwork is gonna be, become a constraint on a project build the electrical comes through it, the plumbing comes through it. So trying to coordinate the electrical and plumbing with the millwork from offshore. Good luck with that. So I, I do believe that our market is secure. Again, like I said I would be wary to be doing something that could be replicated offshore.

Jacob Edmond 41:19

Awesome. A very, I think concise and clear, vision. But I think hopeful, and I think, we are seeing a lot of, as you mentioned before, a lot of acquisitions. And I think through that, you, there will probably be as you said, less millwork manufacturers, but still a very strong and consistent need for it. I am really grateful for you bringing your perspective for sharing your story. Like I think it's extremely motivating, extremely inspiring to so many that are listening. And if anybody is interested in finding out more about Top 40 woodworks or reaching out to, to ask any more questions what's the best way for'em to find out more?

Jenny Gayfer 41:54

You can find us. We have a website that's less than, know, it seems to be Instagram and LinkedIn. Definitely need to put a little bit more effort in that. That's my Rock from Traction for 2026. But definitely you can find us. Top 40. It's a four zero, not written. Woodworks.com.

Jacob Edmond 42:15

Awesome. We'll put that in the show notes and yes, thank you so much for coming on it and sharing with everybody.

Jenny Gayfer 42:20

Okay. Thanks so much, Jacob.

Jacob Edmond 42:22

Thank you, Jenny.