Pathway to Recovery
Pathway to Recovery is an S.A. Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland and Justin B. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.
Pathway to Recovery
The SAL Recovery Puzzle - Commitment w/ Lyman D.
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In this episode, host Jonathan L. welcomes guest Lyman D., who shares his powerful journey of commitment to recovery from sex addiction. Highlights include the importance of willingness, the transformative power of connection with a Higher Power, and the significance of taking actionable steps to maintain commitment over time. Lyman also discusses practical strategies for sustaining commitment during challenging periods and how his recovery has positively impacted his relationship with God and others. This episode emphasizes the essential role of commitment and connection in the recovery process.
00:00 Introduction and Upcoming Event
01:15 Introducing the Special Guest: Lyman
01:52 Lyman's Journey to Recovery
04:09 Finding SA Lifeline and Finding Sobriety
06:13 Commitment to Recovery: The Key to Success
07:43 Navigating Challenges and Staying Committed
23:33 The Impact of Recovery on Relationships
25:48 A Heartfelt Apology from My Mom
27:11 Family Reactions and Support
29:37 Commitment to Recovery
31:20 Daily Actions of Commitment
38:22 Spiritual Connection and Guidance
43:56 Advice for Newcomers and Old Timers
46:02 Conclusion and Gratitude
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Transcripts
This is Pathway to Recovery, an S.A. Lifeline Foundation podcast, featuring hosts Tara McCoslin, who is the S.A. Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.
Jonathan L:Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery Podcast. My name is Jonathan L, and I am a recovering addict to sex and lust, and I'll be your host for today's episode. Before we dive in, on November 7th and 8th, SA Lifeline will host our virtual conference from surviving to thriving, turning pain into purpose, featuring powerful presentations on betrayal trauma, addiction recovery, and healing couples and families. The cost is $59 per individual, and discounts are available for couples or groups. Go to register at uh salifeline.org. Now let's get started with today's episode. So today I have a really special guest, special to me at least. Uh Lyman has been a big part of the recovery rooms as far as I think I've been participating in them quite some time now. Lyman, you and I have had chats before. Um, and when today's topic came up, I thought of you immediately. Uh, I wanted to have you on to talk about this specific thing. Today we're talking about being committed to recovery. But first off, Lyman, do you want to give a little bit of your background, a little bit about yourself, just so we can get a little bit of the flavor, but your voice and get into you as a person? Sounds good. Thanks.
Lyman D:Thank you, Jonathan. Grateful for the opportunity to be here. My name is Lyman D. I am a sex addict. It is something that has been following me for the better part of four decades. I tried anything and everything that I could, going and visiting with ecclesiastical leaders, and nothing seemed to work. I got pretty hopeless. I kind of was at the point of giving up. And um sitting in lesson, so in our church, where the men meet together, and somebody was sharing a reference from a podcast. It sounded interesting, it was intriguing. A lot of the topics. A couple weeks later, I was kind of going through the list and I came across an ecclesiastical leader who struggled with sex addiction. It was by Chris R. And that caught my attention immediately. And as soon as I listened to it and learned that Chris had lost his um lost his family or lost his wife, lost the job that he loved, the church calling that he loved. And I just had this overwhelming feeling that was going to be me. It gave me the courage to take the action that I needed. My ecclesiastical leaders and therapists have been on me for two or three years to get into the rooms of recovery. And so that was what got me into recovery for the first time after like 40 plus years, 50 plus years of dealing with this addiction. It's interesting because I I look back on my whole journey of recovery and I see, I can see God's fingerprints all over where at the time it didn't feel like it, but now I was directed and I was guided to the right person or the right thing. And it was just a small little thing that gave me the push and the bump that I needed. And, you know, I'm forever grateful to Chris for being willing to put himself out there to give other people hope to help guide other people. And I hope that I'm able to do the same type of a thing. So that's one of the reasons I'm here and I enjoy helping and working with other people.
Jonathan L:And that's beautiful if you think about the cycle here now, because just what you were saying, how you were hopeful that you could, and I mean, they're going to be people who listen to this that will be able to pull on your strength and be able to improve themselves and grow. I'm almost curious to see maybe someday if someone quotes your name in a podcast doing the same thing. It's it's a cool cycle, that 12-step cycle, right? Just as part of your experience. What ended up leading you to essay lifeline specifically, though?
Lyman D:It's a great question because by the time I went into the ARP, I was willing to do whatever was needed. So for those who aren't aware, they have you work a step a week. And I would go through and read and annotate and answer the questions. And after 12 weeks, it was like, okay, what's next? And then the other part of it was I can, even though my life was just drastically changed, I created these incredible connections with these brothers. I still go today. I still love them, appreciate them, and I get a lot out of it. But I was still relapsing and I felt like there was more that I needed to do. And a hot thought popped into them, reach out to Chris on Facebook. So I reached out to Chris on Facebook and he says, I go to this uh this meeting every Friday morning at 6 30. And I'm like, oh my goodness. You know, I teach school and Friday is a hard time. Everybody's exhausted by the end of the week. That meant 6:30 meant 5:30 my time because I'm in California, which meant that I had to get up at five o'clock, 4:45 in order to attend the meeting. And I almost didn't make it. I got up. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Was about to put my head back down onto the pillow. And it's like, no, buddy, you've this you this is where you need to be. As soon as I hopped online, I knew it was exactly where I needed to be. I'll share one other little bit because I kind of kept in contact with Chris on that because he was in that meeting. It took me another probably three months to find a sponsor. And I was just kind of getting really frustrated. And and Chris's advice was follow the spirit. Spirit knows where you need to be. And as soon as I followed that, it was exactly with the right person. So that's that's how I ended up into the rooms of SAL, 12 step.
Jonathan L:Man, and we're glad you're here. A lot of good brothers have uh had good conversations with you. Your fape hope experience has blessed a lot of people. But uh, one thing that I'm hoping we can get to today actually is covering this aspect of commitment and being committed. So we're going through the recovery puzzle right now uh with each guest as we talk. And I'm I'm taking different pieces and uh having an individual speak about one piece. And I want to talk about this. It's on, so if you go into the the SAL book, it's the newer one. So if you don't have the newer one, this is not gonna help you. But on page 107 of this uh book, there is the the bullet point number four, which is committed. I'm gonna read this really quickly because this is the the portion, the description of that piece of the puzzle. And it says one must freely choose to step onto the path of recovery and stay on it. The path is narrow and may seem steep at times. So a long-term commitment is vital. Without a firm resolve to do whatever it takes, discouragement may roll in during setbacks, and sadly, a return to illicit sexual behaviors or lasting trauma will likely follow. Our experience is that when each partner is wholly committed to work their own recovery in due time, relationships have a greater opportunity to heal. And I love they put this quote from Vince Lombardi down here that says, Most people fail not because of a lack of desire, but because of a lack of commitment. So I want to dive in on commitment today with you. And I've got a couple of questions that I'd like to go over with you. So I'm gonna ask you these, whatever your responses are. I'm sure they'll be great, but I'm I'm excited to hear from you. So can you share a bit about you've already shared a little bit about your personal recovery, but really let's focus in on that initial commitment to recovery. How did it start? How did you start like getting deeper on it? Like digging deep into this commitment that has kept you here now. And can you think of a specific moment that prompted your resolve to stay with it as opposed to just falter and fall back?
Lyman D:Continuing with the start because it actually makes sense in following sequence. Chris's advice to follow the spirit was really key because I felt like I was led to my to my sponsor. And in the first meeting, he asked, there were certain requirements that he had. I had to attend two meetings a week. And I'm like, Well, I already attended one for church. He said, That doesn't count. It has to be two SAL/SA meetings. There's this a little defiance in me, let's say I'm digging my heels down and complaining. I had to make a daily phone call. It had to be a different person every day of the week, and they had to have at least a year of sobriety. So I really had to be in meetings and I had to be paying attention to getting them down. So I had those daily scripture study, daily journaling, and daily prayer. I went through a period where it was like, I can't believe I've got to do all of this thing, all of these things. And I was just getting kind of frustrated. But then I just kind of realized it took a moment and realized, you know, these are things that I should be doing anyways. Should I be praying every day? Yes. Should I be journaling every day? Yes. Should I be reaching out to others every day? Yes. And in terms of like step work and things of that nature, personal development, whatever you want to call it, that's stuff that leaders and successful people do on a regular basis. And I I never held that habit. And so that kind of changed my attitude a little bit. But where it really hit home to me was that summer, my date of sobriety is May 20th of 2023. So end of June, beginning of July that year, my family took a cruise down to the Caribbean, and then we hung out in New York for a little bit. I was required to make phone calls while I was wherever I was, whatever. We're out in the middle of the ocean. I'm supposed to be making my calls, attending my meetings. Same thing in New York. And so I went through and I and I did it. One day in in New York, we'd gone to see a couple of plays that day, had lunch, went and had a dinner and an ice cream, ice cheesecake after the um the last play, and we're walking back. It's like 11:30, 12 o'clock, and I realized I hadn't made my call for the day. We got back to the room and I just I felt I felt terrible. And went to bed. I had my call. That was the other requirement, is I had to have a weekly call with my sponsor. My weekly call was the next day, and I made an arrangement so that my wife would go into the hangout with the kids in their room. I could have my meeting. And part of the agreement was that I would go pick up breakfast for everybody. So we hadn't had any good bagels yet. So I found a bagel shop and went down to the, it took longer than anticipated. And I was 45 minutes late. I found myself in line making excuses for why I wasn't, why I was going to be late and just justifying. We get back to the room and I get onto the phone call. And he was like just kind of very direct. He says, Hey, you know, I understand you got family things going on. He said, I'm gonna be, I've only got now, I've only got about five, 10 minutes. And then we started talking, like how your calls us week. Oh, great. I didn't get one in last night. And then he stopped me in that moment and he was like, We're gonna end the conversation right now. He's like, I need to, I need to check in with my sponsor, and we need to have a conversation. I'll be getting back to you. It just kind of hammered home to me in that moment a couple of things. Honesty, being rigorously honest, was I being honest? Was I was trying to be manipulative and make things sound okay, sound good. And then the other part was ultimately I did make a commitment to to call him at a certain time every Sunday. I had made a commitment to make those calls every single day, and he didn't keep that commitment. And so that just kind of really hammered home ever since then. Life happens, and there's going to be days where you can't make the calls. But to this day, I still reach out every day to people, and it's been such a blessing just to have those type of commitments. Because by keeping those commitments that I that I agreed to make, it's one of the things that helps me get through the challenges that I have to deal with on a regular basis. So long way to answer that question.
Jonathan L:No, I love that. And it's it's the best way to answer that question, honestly, with with personal anecdotes and stories, because people are going to listen better when you have a good story and you do have them. So appreciate that. Can I ask you a follow-up question to this? And it came along earlier in the in the point you were making, but you made a comment that struck me, which was that at some point you realize that you should be doing this stuff anyways. And what was fascinating to me is it seems like to me there's this switch that needs to happen somewhere in the recovery process of going from, I guess I have to do this, to this is what I need to do, and I'm I'm gonna do it, right? Like that we're talking about commitment, but there's there's a difference there. I don't know if you can describe a little bit more about like how you've made that switch. Like you talked about it a little bit, but there's I think that a lot of guys maybe struggle with that.
Lyman D:A couple of things there. It all goes back to that podcast and conversations with Chris. Sure. I know where my life was going to go if I kept doing it, and I did not want that, I didn't want any part of that. And then and then the other part of it was it was just just all of the spirit, it's gonna guide you to where you need to be. And there were times where it was like I really wanted to get out of it because it was such a pain in the neck. Whenever I was on vacation, I've I've made calls in airports, I've made calls, you know, going on walks in noisy houses in the background. I've just you name it, and it always came back to what Chris had said, follow the spirit. And the spirit led me here. And if the spirit led me here, and this is where I need to be, then this is what I need to do. So that's I don't know if that makes sense, but that's that was kind of like a I would call it like an anchor for me in terms of like getting me through those humps on those first, those first really big challenges.
Jonathan L:Yeah. Yeah. What I love about the way you described that is you went from running from something, running away from what you didn't want to become, to chasing something, chasing down the spirit or chasing down these promptings of what you could be. That's so cool. And that that in my mind is how that switch happened. So as I'm listening to you, I feel like I'm getting this kind of insight to how that would go. You make this commitment, you've decided you're going to do it. Well, it turns out, and I recently came across this realization that life is a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. I don't know if you've noticed. It's it goes on for a while. Recovery is often described as a marathon and not a sprint. Life is a marathon, not a sprint. And there are definitely times it can feel hard or even unsustainable. Uh, you start to plateau, so to speak. How do you personally navigate those periods to stay committed?
Lyman D:A great question. And and going back to what you looked at, one of the first times where I really had to face that was when I had completed the 12th step. Because up to that point, it was so regimented. It was like every day I was do spending this time, so much time doing this. And, you know, I was doing attending meetings, I was making calls, I had recovery work that was prescribed about what I had to do. Once I had completed the 12th step, it's like, okay, I said to my sponsor, what do I do next? He's like, whatever you want to do. And I'm like, I don't know what I want to do. Right. Self-driven now, yeah. Then that's where our conversation started to come in a little bit because I had to try to figure out what was going to work for me and what wasn't. And in the process of doing that, sometimes you just kind of like, okay, I've arrived and this is good. And then you just kind of like, just kind of coast a little bit. You do something here, you'll hear somebody's reading a good book, so you maybe dabble into that a little bit, or I don't know. In that time period, I had to figure out a plan or create a plan about what it was that I wanted my recovery to look like at that point in time. And then I'll say more recently, complacently has come from just being exhausted across the board with professionally with what I do. I get exhausted, life becomes chaotic, and it's just it's really easy. The last thing you want to do is sit down and make a phone call. Or, you know, I've learned, I've learned this is this is really big. I've learned that as soon as I have a meeting that I go to, if I'm approaching that meeting, like I don't want to be here, this is ridiculous, then that is a signal to me that I have to be at that meeting. I have to be there. If I'm not there, then I'm gonna, it's I'm gonna head down in a different direction, and that's not a good thing. You know, and almost every single time somebody has the reading or somebody has shared exactly what it is that I needed to hear. I leave the meeting energized, I feel the spirit, I feel uplifted, and it keeps me going in the direction that I need to be going.
Jonathan L:That's great. And what even more I think you expounded the question to a place that is beyond just a plateau, which you did discuss in the beginning, and uh, and I want to get back to that, but you also added in this almost a vertical barrier that comes up from time to time, where it's it's not so much like a, oh, I've made it and I'm good, but it's a life is happening to me right now, and can I still keep the commitment? I'm going through it right now.
Lyman D:So my dad passed away last July, end of July, and we had funeral. And, you know, we lost my mom four months before that. So losing two parents within a four-month period, it was it was expected, but it was still hard. And I go right from that in the craziness because there was a trip thrown into that. I was stressing about finances because we had a wedding in Seattle we had to go to. And then I just remember just connecting with my higher power at one point in time and just having this overwhelming feeling things are gonna be okay. And it was nice, it was good. I needed that. But I jumped right from the funeral, and in two days I started school, and I'm teaching a new class in a new grade level that I've never taught before, and it is just kicking my butt. It's like, you know, I'm standing, I heard somebody describe the other day, it's like I'm standing in front of a fire hydrant, and I'm just like with what I was teaching before, it was just automatic. I kind of knew the curriculum, I knew what to do. I didn't have to put forth the time and the effort. I've had personal, just kind of that peaceful feeling and confirmation that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, but it doesn't take away from the chaos and the stress and the fear of doing a good job and all of this. And what I've learned recently is that it's really easy in life to let the chaos come to front and center. And as I keep focused on that chaos, I push God out of the center. And recently, in conversations, because of the connections and the phone calls with people, I've been able to work, work through that. And I can just talk about how yesterday, for example, again, I was exhausted. I made more effort to connect with my higher power yesterday. And I had this incredible support and peace and energy that came from nowhere. And I believe I had that because I was able to pause, step back, and reconnect. In chaos, it's easy to lose that connection whenever you're struggling, when you become complacent, it's easy to lose that as well. It's interesting because almost every challenge to some degree comes down to connection with your higher power and or connection with the brothers in recovery.
Jonathan L:What you painted a picture of to me is I almost imagine this ideology that in the beginning, commitment kind of feels like this ball and chain you have to drag around with you and it keeps you quote unquote grounded, right? But it shifts later because then the storms of life come in and you've got this almost like this battery pack now, right? You're connected to something stable because of your commitment. And the way you described it is like if you hadn't had this commitment, if you didn't have this process, this program that you were committed to, that would have been harder. Which is interesting to think because a lot of the time we think, well, this is just one more burden. Well, what if it's actually our our lifeline, so to speak?
Lyman D:Yeah, it you know, and it's interesting. I find myself grateful more and more for recovery. Because if I'm not in recovery, if I don't have the addiction, I wouldn't push it on anybody. But if I weren't in the addiction, I would not have been led to this point in recovery where I'm where I've learned the tools that I have learned to help me get through all of this. When all of the stress and the chaos happens, it's easy to stop and look back. Man, if this had been three years ago, this would have, I would have done this. And it's so nice to be able to sit back and it's like, okay, I know what I need to do right now. And I can take those steps and do it. I can surrender, I can call whoever I need to call. But it was interesting because of this journey that I've been on. Again, it all kind of comes down to the to this to the commitment and to doing the things that I need to do, making it an action, right? It was interesting because my my father made some poor choices in his life. And it just some things came about in the family about what was going on. And I was like, you know, my some of my siblings were just like were reacting, and I felt kind of this calm peace. And I was kind of like, why do you feel so so calm and so at peace with things? And it's like I've kind of been there. I know it was a it's a good thing because it's kind of helping to get him going into the right direction of where he needs to be, you know, for his journey. And so if again, if I'm not in the rooms of recovery, I don't have that type of an attitude that would have created more stress and anxiety.
Jonathan L:You're kind of alluding to this idea of how your recovery impacts all of the relationships in your life. It it changes people around you, it gives examples to others. I it's interesting. I was just looking at this. In the title for this piece, it says, When each partner, so you know, assuming that there's a married couple or, you know, when each partner is wholly committed to working their own recovery in due time, relationships have a greater opportunity to heal. And I kind of want to keep moving on this theme you're talking about here. When you're committed to this, how has that impacted those relationships, particularly family members, friends, other people close to you? Talked about your father. I mean, what else do you see?
Lyman D:So um I will probably get a little emotional here, but it's it's all good. The last last coherent conversation I had with my father, uh, we had this tradition after our church, our church has uh has a biannual conference. And after one of the after conferences, we would sit and have a conversation about which talks we liked, what and what we got out of them and why. One of the talks was central to changing my idea about my higher power. And she's on a podcast, Emily Freeman, David Butler on a podcast that I was listening to, and it helped change my perspective of how God is and how I see God. And so she was giving a talk, and she kind of went through and bulleted everything that I had picked up on following that podcast for the previous couple of years. And so I said that I enjoyed her talk. That was one of the best talks that I had because it was so key to my recovery. And he was curious, he's like, why is that? And so we had this hour and a half long discussion where I kind of completely opened up and I shared my entire journey with him. And he was quiet and he listened. And he's very outspoken. He's very outgoing and very friendly and can be opinionated and whatnot at times. But just to have him quiet, you know, and say towards the end, it says, Jesus, it sounds like sounds like you're the mentee and I'm the mentor. And it was just kind of a it was a special, special, unexpected moment, if you will. And again, I'll go back to if I hadn't no, no commitments, no taking the action to get onto the road of recovery, I don't have that moment there. And that's again, like I said, that was the last, you know, where he was really with us. And I could have a conversation for him for an extended period of time. Another one was with my mom, where she had um this experience where she had she had bad heart, bad lungs, but she had a hernia, and she just was getting worse and worse and worse. It went from like end of November to beginning of February. And they finally took her in for a CAT scan and found out that she had had a ruptured appendix and that a wall had developed around the infection. And so it was like the day or two after, while she was in recovery, I get this call about 11 o'clock at night, and she apologizes for all of the intended harms that she had caused in my life. You know, and I knew there was there was no way that she could ever make up for all of them, and there's no way that I can make up for all of the pain that I'd cause her as well. And it was just one of those sweet moments where I felt like God's love. I felt that he was carrying that burden that neither of us could could complete on our own. If I'm not in recovery, not making those commitments, I'm not on recovery, I'm not having that moment with my mom. If that makes sense. And I use those to illustrate. Those are two pretty, those are two really good examples. Um, I just had had other people have reached out and have asked questions. And um I've had I connected with a couple of family members who have had issues, and it's just nice to know that that there are people out there that you can go to if you need to. Sometimes our parents mean well and our family mean well, and things don't come out in the, I don't say the best way possible, but they don't always come out in a way that that can be hurtful. You don't feel their love and their support. When I told my dad I could tell he was disappointed when I um told him what was going on. When I talked to my mom and told her what was going on, she's like, yeah, I kind of I've kind of expected it. And it was what was interesting is I would attend my ARP passage meetings every Sunday night. And on the way home, I would always call her or she would call. And she was always asking questions. So, how was your meeting tonight? Said it was good. Well, what did you guys talk about? I'm like, um, I can't talk about it. You know, and so it's like that, but that's how she was. And she was just interested and generally wanted to know how I was doing, how I was progressing, conversations, talk to my kids, my my daughter in particular. She's always, she'll always check in periodically. When I first told her, it's like, you're taking care of it. Are you doing how are you doing? And she would periodically ask, ask questions about how I'm doing. And the boys were just kind of like, yeah, okay, that's nice, and just kind of blew it off and move on. And then my wife is in a very different place than I am. And I've had to learn to row my boat, stay in my own lane in terms of what she's dealing with. But in terms of like attending my Sunday meetings and in terms of attending all of my other meetings, she knows what's what's going on. And if I'm not going to them or whatever's happening, she'll want to know. She's like, How come you're not? Are you going to this meeting tonight? Are you going to do this? And she's just kind of she's very been very supportive. Traveling and going to meetings and phone calls and sitting in cars and things like that, it can be inconvenient at times. But she's been very supportive of that in that regard. So I'm very grateful for that. And I know we'll get at the point, at some point, we'll get to where we need to get to to deal with our own issues because we do have our issues that we need to deal with.
Jonathan L:So yeah. Yeah. But the beautiful thing about this is that, and I love how you've highlighted this in your examples, is, and you said it without the commitment to recovery, these conversations don't happen, right? This, and I know so many other brothers I've talked to, but myself included, where I came to these rooms because I knew the behavior was wrong. I knew that the impulsiveness of Bit was wrong. But what I was missing was I didn't see how all of my connections were disintegrating around me. So well highlighted in your the different stories that you tell here, but all these relationships where now you can have real conversations. I love that. And uh the my favorite thing, you just said it, these conversations don't happen without that commitment. Like if anyone takes something home, I hope it's that. You know, connection and commitment go hand in hand. What I'm gonna ask you now, and I'm gonna pull this back down a little bit because uh I'm sure there are a lot of people listening who I don't know, I don't, I'm not sure of anything anymore, but I I hope that there are people listening thinking, okay, well, how how do I do this? Because I'm not in a place where I feel that that commitment. Um, there's actually a member share in the SAL book from a portrayed partner that says this, and I think it's great. It says commitment is a funny word, but I find it's more of a verb, uh an action word. Can you give examples of how you try to embody commitment as like a daily action in recovery rather than just this one-time decision or this tedious clinging? Because some I know, especially early in my own recovery, I would say, this is it. I'm gonna change, it's gonna happen. And when it didn't, I would never shattered. Yeah.
Lyman D:Rinse repeat, rants repeat every two weeks, right? I felt like I could get about two weeks and then I was back to square one. One of the things initially that was discussed with um with my sponsor was he talks about step one, step two, step three, is a willingness. You have to be willing to do whatever is necessary in order to make it happen. Yes, it's a verb because you have to do things. So that meant like another story here. Family reunion in Las Vegas. I'm in the middle of writing my step one inventory. And once everybody's up, there's no time. Everybody's off and moving and doing things, and it's hard to find time. So I had to get up a half hour to 45 minutes earlier in order to do whatever it was that I needed to do. There's a way to make things work if you're willing to figure out a way to make it work. And the Friday morning meetings for a year at getting up and being ready by 5:30, that was so I there's so many times where I just I did not want to do it. I was so grateful when we were on the East Coast because that was like, then it was like getting up at like 7:30 or something like that. And it's like I didn't have to, this crazy hour that I had to wake up in. But I I think one of the biggest things that I would share with everybody is just you you have to be at a place where you're willing to do whatever your sponsor is asking you to do. There's a reason for it. And if you're struggling with it, because I have there's so many issues that people have in life. Young kids, young families, it could be work. You could have, like, you know, if you're in business and you have calls, you know, on the East Coast or the West Coast, or, you know, like in Japan or something like that, or you're traveling, there are ways around doing it. I remember um there was a member who shared the list of it was like essay meetings that were going on at any given time in a moment. And the idea with him sharing that out with me is like whenever you're struggling, if there's not an SAL meeting going on, you can go to one of these meetings wherever you are in the world. Again, it's a commitment to and a willingness to do whatever is necessary. And what I learned, the other thing that I learned is wherever I was traveling, I would try to compile a list of people that were in that particular time zone so that you know it's it was more aligned with where I was, and then I could manipulate it. So, like if if I'm in New York and I was I was too early on where I wasn't thinking, if I was calling and it was 11:30 at night, yeah on the West Coast, it would have been would have been around nine o'clock, maybe nine thirty, which yeah, it's a little late, but I could have made a call. I could have made an effort. So that's what that's that's what comes to my mind when it is just a willingness to to do whatever you need to do for you because everybody's gym journey is different. What worked for me is not gonna work for the person sitting next to me. Your journey is different than my journey, right? And so how we get to that point where we're committed and actually doing it is really, really different.
Jonathan L:Yeah. What I love about that is you gave a very universal truth, which is if you want it to work out, you can make it work out. I mean, it's gonna require some sacrifice. You mentioned that, and it's gonna be difficult in some cases. But if you want it to work, you can make it work. You'll find a way. That's commitment, right?
Lyman D:It was it was, I'll tell you what was scary was doing the step one inventory on the family reunion. I was so alert and so attentive. I when I couldn't go into another room, so it was in the room with my watch, and I'm sitting typing on my phone, and I had to just kind of position myself in a different way so that I'm paying attention to there and listening to what's going on outside. And there were there were some things, I was at a point where I was putting some things down that I thought I was gonna take with me to the grave. And I typed them up and I erased them, and then it's like, no, you got to do it. I remember typing it in, but I was just like, as soon as somebody was up, then I was off it and I was done and I was good to go. But it was a matter of finding that time to do it. I had somebody else that I was working with one time when they were going to be traveling and they weren't able to take a lot of materials with them. They printed up some photocopies of like the white book or something, and they took those with them and they were able to kind of use that as their daily step work. And it was, it was kind of a compromise, maybe a little off from what they needed to be working on or doing at that time, but it was something that was going to keep them in the habit of doing that. So there's just a lot of different things. And if you're feeling like you're stuck with something, it's a great conversation to talk to a sponsor about it. And early on when I started making my phone calls, it was so awkward, it was so hard to do. I oh my he's like, okay, like I'm calling you because, like, you know, my sponsor says I have to make a daily phone call and I don't know what to talk to you about, kind of a thing. When I got into a groove, what was really helpful was having some type of a question that I could discuss. So it's like, okay, I'm going on a vacation in a month or so. Then when I would call people up, I hey, I'm going on vacation and and I don't know that I'm going to be able to do X, Y, and Z. Do you have any ideas or any suggestions? And it was really cool to hear what other people would have to say. And in a lot of cases, that would give me the help and the support that I needed so that I could keep doing, could keep my commitments that I made.
Jonathan L:Such a great idea, too. If you're having a hard time being creative or coming up with the how am I going to get this done, uh, someone just from the outside giving you some ideas is phenomenal.
Lyman D:I'll give you another one really quick, too, because this has really impressed me. Is there's an individual that that I talk to on a regular basis. And every time he goes to a place where he thinks there could be any type of issues at all, he creates he creates a text group with people that he's close to, that he's connected with. So whenever he's struggling, he says, Does anybody have time for a call? It's really been an inspiration to me because again, if you know you're going to be in a situation where the sperm, you can't always pick up and call somebody you don't know who's going to be available, but I can shoot out a text really quick. And somebody is almost always going to shoot back. I've got a minute, so give me give me five minutes or whatever. And again, planning for unexpected things, trips and things like that, that was a really great way, I thought. And to create a way to reach out to people.
Intro:Yeah.
Lyman D:But again, that does that stuff doesn't come out if you don't, if you're not committed to making the phone calls on a daily basis and reaching out to people.
Jonathan L:I love that. I'm going to ask you this question, kind of going off of what you've just described and how you're collecting this information, you're learning, you're growing. I want to kind of get to the core of this discussion a little bit here, digging a little bit deeper and tie back into last episode where we talked to Amber. Uh, she talked with us about seeking spiritual connection. And something I kind of want to get from you is uh more of this understanding of, so you had talked about this. I'm following the spirit or I'm chasing the spirit, I'm after the spirit, right? Wherever it tells me to go, I'm gonna go. Uh, has that changed, evolved, grown? Like that interaction with you and your higher power, how has that changed over the course now of your commitment? It's evolved.
Lyman D:It's more powerful, it's a more special connection than I ever imagined. I've always been, I would, my parents would say I've always been somewhat sensitive in that regard to feeling. My grandmother's been that way. So I'm I feel lucky in that regard, but how that connection has changed immensely. I go back to the podcast that I listened to with Emily Freeman and David Butler. And that was where I first really heard and was hammered home the idea of the Savior is going to meet you where you are, as you are. And that was such a foreign concept to me. And that gave me such a such a big, I don't know, just this all of this hope. I felt, I felt the savior's love. I felt like I can do this. It's like I didn't feel condemned, I didn't feel like I'm gonna be, yeah, there are consequences, but I didn't feel like this condemnation and punishment type of a feeling. Later in the journey, I um one of the most effective ways, if I really need to feel the spirit or need to prayer and need to connect, I have to find time. I have to get out of the chaos and just I have to pause. One of the best things for me that works is just taking a few minutes to kind of meditate to get into a relaxed state. And then it's not like I would taught steps of prayer. You do this and you say this and you say this and you say this. It's more of like I'm having a conversation with my father where I'm talking and I'm discussing the challenges and the problems that I'm having. And then I just sit and I would listen. And then as thoughts and ideas would come to me, I would chop those ideas down. But the other part for connection that's really important is those thoughts and ideas will come, but it's acting on those decisions too. Because it could be a prompting to call somebody. I have no idea why I'm calling somebody, and there's something that I have to share or that they have to share with me. I had that happen last week where I just had this nagging, I need to talk to this particular brother. So after a day or two, I finally reached out and talked to him. Another one is there's somebody who goes to our church who's who's a widower, and I just had this reach out, give this guy a call, go offer to go help out in his yard. And it wasn't the yard work that was going on when I finally went and did it. It was this brother was lonely. He just needed somebody to talk to. And there's other people that's like, let's go to lunch. Whatever it is, but it's like whenever I'm getting these impressions, it's like I know where they come from. And if I want to continue to do my step 12 or to do his will, I need to be open and receptive to those thoughts and those ideas that come out, even if they're there are thoughts and ideas that I don't like or do I want to deal with. And it comes back to that willingness when we talked about before, you know, there was that willingness to be committed and to do those little things and you take those actions. So that's where my connection kind of comes from that. And the more that I'm honoring my boundaries and keeping God at my center, the more I'm a conduit for God's will and helping other people and those around me.
Jonathan L:So there's a cycle here. It's your commitment feeds into strengthening your spiritual connection, and then your spiritual connection feeds you more opportunities to be committed and it continues over and over again and it builds, and you've seen that. That's incredible.
Lyman D:And so that's why where when life gets kind of chaotic and you focus on only what's in front of you, and you push God out of the center, that's one of the things where it's really noticeable. It's like, okay, well, I need to redo this. How am I gonna redo this? And then you just jump in and hopefully I'm able to quickly put myself in a position where I'm making the time. You know, my daughter um she quoted me back to myself, and I didn't realize she was doing this. I know, right? But before she left, I said to her, You make time for God, he's gonna make time for you. And she was like was talking to her about some of her missionary service, and she was using that with like some people that she was teaching. And I'm like, Well, that's great. Where did you get that idea? It's like, Dad, you gave that to me, you said that to me. I'm like, I did. I was pretty good. I'll take care of I can't take credit for that. But anyways, it's just that idea again of keeping him in the center and making him a priority, and then things fall into place after that.
Jonathan L:So I love that. And and Lyman, this has been an awesome discussion. I could talk to you all night, but I will go to the last two questions, and this is what we asked each of the guests. Um, which is first, what would you tell a newcomer about commitment as they're first coming into the program? How would you how would you talk to a newcomer about this topic?
Lyman D:Be willing, have a willing heart. You're there for a reason. Some things that are going to be asked of you to do that are incredibly uncomfortable that you don't want to do, be willing to take that leap of faith and do whatever's asked. One of the greatest blessings that I had was going to that second meeting because of the all of the connections I created with by going to that second meeting. Same thing with the connections I didn't want to was a pain in the neck. But by having that willingness just to do it, because the first time I walked into the rooms of recovery, I was so afraid. And the very first person I saw was somebody that I knew. But once I was in there, it's like, okay, I've got this, we're good. And there's a reason for things to happen the way that they are. So that's what I would say is just be willing to do whatever is active, you and be willing to listen because there's a reason that sponsors and people who have a degree of sobriety are sharing the things that they do.
Jonathan L:The next question that I want to get into, extremely pertinent, I feel like, to specifically the topic of being committed, but what would you tell to an old timer? And I know that you've talked to at least one old timer about uh commitment and about avoiding complacency, but uh, what would be some advice that you want on record for those folks?
Lyman D:To to pause, take a step back, because I think for from in my experience, it's because life is getting crazy and chaotic, or because I'm not doing much of anything. And if there's a lot of noise I'm paying attention to outside, make it a priority to pause and to find some time to just to kind of um be with yourself, be with your thoughts, be with your higher power so that you can create that, we create that connection.
Jonathan L:I love that. Well, Lyman, thank you so much for joining us uh on this episode. I am so grateful for your insights, for your experience, your strength, your hope. Thank you, everybody else, for listening. I'm glad that we have this place where we can share this experience strength and hope. This really is almost like a sanctuary of serenity in life for me. Join us again on our next episode as we walk the road of happy destiny and seek recovery together.
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