Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Big Adventures on Small Ships: The Expedition Experience with Gebhard Rainer, CEO & Alex McNeil, Chief Expedition Officer at HX | Hurtigruten Expeditions
Ever wondered how the world of expedition cruising blends adventure, luxury and sustainability? Join us for an in-depth conversation with HX | Hurtigruten Expeditions' CEO Gebhard Rainer and Chief Expedition Officer Alex McNeil. Together, we embark on a journey through HX's unique offerings, where every voyage promises a meaningful connection to the planet and its rich history. From Gebhard's transition from the hospitality industry to leading a trailblazer in expedition travel, to Alex's operational insights that reassure and excite future travelers, we uncover the essence of what makes HX stand out in the world of exploration at sea.
This episode takes you through their commitment to scientific collaboration and minimal environmental impact, echoing the historical legacy since 1896. We shed light on the immersive guest experiences that encompass wildlife encounters and educational opportunities, creating an unforgettable journey for discerning travelers. Discover how HX's Scandinavian heritage fosters camaraderie among guests, enhancing the unique travel experience they offer.
As we look ahead, we touch on emerging trends and opportunities in the expedition cruising industry, delving into the rising interest in sustainable travel and expanding market potential. With insights into captivating itineraries, including uncharted destinations like the Northwest Passage, this episode captures the excitement surrounding future explorations. Join us in understanding the transformative impact of mindful travel and how expedition cruising is poised to captivate an ever-growing audience with its blend of adventure, comfort, and environmental consciousness.
👉 Listen to Big Adventure on Small Ships with HX | Hurtigruten Expeditions Now
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Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and I'm thrilled to bring you the very final episode of our Ocean Cruise series for season four, featuring Herdegurt and Expeditions, also known as HX. As you have been listening to this series, you would have heard four really interesting episodes from Ocean Cruises, and this is the one special episode for this season that we're going to focus on expedition and going into season five, we're going to pick up more on luxury and river cruise as well. So be sure to reach out for guest and partner opportunities in season five. I wanted to acknowledge our amazing partner that sponsored this season's deep dive into ocean cruises, which is Jeb commerce. You can find out more information about how you can unlock your affiliate programs potential with our friends at Jeb commerce by checking out Jeb commercecom slash travel trends. These guys are the genuine article. They're real experts in this space. They've worked with some of the partners that you've heard on this series and I've had the privilege to work with them for many years and see the results of their efforts. So if you're interested in getting involved in affiliate programs, learning more or optimizing a resisting program, then be sure to check them out. They've got tailored solutions for every type of travel company, from cruise to tour operators, and I'm sure they'll be able to help you take your business to the next level. Thanks again to our friends at Jeb Commerce.
Speaker 1:Now I wanted to tell you who is our special guest for this episode, because it's actually going to be two individuals. So, because it's actually going to be two individuals, we actually have both the CEO of Hurtigerton Expeditions, gebhard Rayner, and we also have the chief expedition officer, alex McNeil, and we thought it would make for a nice two-person combo to get the interesting perspective from the C-suite, both from Gebhard himself himself, who is relatively new to Herdegurt and Expeditions in the past six months, but it clearly knows the business exceptionally well, as you'll hear in our interview. But then we also brought Alex in, given that he's been so closely involved in the product and, like me, he actually suffers from a bit of a seasickness. So I was amazed to hear that, because it's one of the concerns I had about taking one of these types of trips and he certainly reassured me, as you'll hear in our discussion, and I personally can't wait to take an expedition cruise. It's literally the first type of cruise that really intrigues me and there's a number of places in the world that I am certainly keen to go.
Speaker 1:Anyway, on that note, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for enjoying the cruise series, giving us lots of great feedback. I really hope to continue to advance that into season five, as I know the team feels strongly about that as well. We've learned a lot in this series and we hope you have as well. Please, by all means, reach out to us with any feedback or post some comments, as we'd like to know exactly what we should focus on for season five. So tell us some of the partners that you want us to speak to, some of the guests you want us to have, and if you're interested in getting involved, by all means reach out to us. Dan at TravelTrendsPodcastcom. Now I'd like to introduce to you these two executives in the world of expedition cruising. Let's start with Gebhard Reiner and then we'll go over to Alex. So, gebhard, great to have you with us. Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thanks very much. It's great to be with you. Thanks very much for the welcome, Ben.
Speaker 1:For sure and tell everyone where you're joining from today. I'm in Toronto, of course, and I believe you're in London.
Speaker 2:Is that right? I am in London in the United Kingdom at the moment.
Speaker 1:yes, Excellent months ago at the Virtuoso conference in Las Vegas, so it was a real pleasure to meet you there and to have this time to actually get into a deep dive conversation about all the amazing things that are happening in the world of expedition cruises. So I would love to start for our audience to give everyone a bit of background, because one of the reasons that I was so keen to have you as part of this series yourself and to talk about HX is because your background extends well beyond expedition cruising and, as many people heard from that introduction, you spent many years as an executive in the hospitality industry and so I know there's a lot of commonality between the two. But would you mind giving everyone just a bit of background on your role in travel and then specifically how you decided to take on this incredible new role at HX?
Speaker 2:Sure, and it's an exciting industry overall travel and hospitality and I come out of hospitality. I've been in hospitality for over 40 years, spent 26 years with Hyatt Hotels Corporation, which was fantastic. It took me all around the world, did the last seven years as the CEO of Sandals Resorts Internationally in the Caribbean Great company in the luxury all-inclusive segment and then, surprisingly, was approached if I would be interested in joining Ajax, which I did not. To be honest, I did not know anything about. I had left Europe over 40 years ago and therefore was not so familiar with Hurtigruten as a brand, which is a household brand in Europe. But after many conversations and a bit of investigation into what Hurtigruten stands for, what HX is supposed to be coming, I decided to make that move because it is an incredible opportunity. It's a fantastic, value-based business, and I say value-based because it does correspond with my own personal values as well.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Now, thanks for sharing that context, because, as people have heard, over the course of this series, we've been doing a deep dive into ocean and expedition two of the fastest growing sectors within travel, but cruise specifically and so that's why I was very keen to have a conversation with you, not only given your background, but given the incredible success trajectory that HX is on, and even as you now create a really distinct business for HX around expeditions. So why don't we actually talk about that for a moment? So give everyone a bit of background, if you wouldn't mind, about Hurtigerton itself and then Hurtigruten Expeditions, as we'll refer to now going forward as HX.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hurtigruten is a 130-year-old company and Hurtigruten Expeditions, which is now HX, is really the oldest expedition company in the world. We're the newest oldest expedition company in the world, if I can say that because newest. We've just broken away from Høydegrunden and are going to be on our own two feet as of 1st of November, operationally completely separate as of early next year, legally separated as well. Høydegrunden has a long history in Norway, servicing the Norwegian coast, going to places and to towns and communities up the coast of Norway that can only be reached by ocean, by ships. So they have done postal service, they still do postal service, they do delivery services and they happen to have cabins on their ship where people can book spaces and do these adventurous explorations into Norwegian fjords and out of that. In more recent times, the idea of going back to where the original company came from.
Speaker 1:Expedition was sort of reborn and an expedition arm was developed, which now, at the end of 22, beginning of 2023, the decision was made to break it away and separate it, to give it its own life it's very exciting and great timing, given the post-pandemic interest in expedition cruising, which is very unique, as you're well aware, between ocean cruising and your colleague Alex, who's a part of this discussion as well, had referred to as mainstream cruising. And then expedition cruising is obviously focused and I want you to actually be able to articulate this for everybody but essentially smaller ships going to destinations in the world. Some is obviously focused and I want you to actually be able to articulate this for everybody but essentially smaller ships going to destinations in the world that some of those larger ships wouldn't necessarily be able to get to, and then having some incredible experiences in the polar regions, being able to get on zodiacs. So tell us, with the separation between Hurtigruten and Hurtigruten Exped expedition.
Speaker 1:So, hx, tell us a little bit about the fleet. I understand there's kind of five ships. You have a number of different itineraries. When I was preparing for our conversation today, I was having a look through a number of the destinations Greenland, which I think you'll be traveling to shortly, but the Galapagos. So tell us a little bit more about the collection of ships and how it is distinct from the Herdegarden, with how you've set up this business to stand on its two feet, as you put it, there, with the ships and the collection, and tell us a little bit more about Expedition Cruises.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with our fleet we are, from a capacity point of view, really the largest expedition cruise company in a group of small cruise companies, and it's very different to mainstream cruise, if that's the terminology for it. Mainstream cruise is very different to what expedition cruise is. Expedition cruise is where the ship is really more a means of transport and the base for science and for people to recuperate and relax from mindful adventure and I would phrase it that way Mindful adventure going to hard-to-reach destinations, where you go in the explorer spirit, into areas to understand the impact on communities and the work that needs to be done in order to reduce our own footprint into these areas where we go to. So we have a fleet of five ships. We are the first one that went into hybrid ships from a sustainability point of view. So we have two ships the MS Freed of Nansen and the MS Zero World Amundsen, both capacity of each 530 passengers, which is sort of the upper limit of the size of a ship you want to have in expedition cruise. They both are battery-powered, electric battery-powered, together with diesel, marine diesel.
Speaker 2:We were the first company that did away with heavy marine oil, or heavy oil for mode of firing your engines, so to say, in 2009, we abandoned heavy oil. We were also trailblazing in terms of abandoning single-use plastic on our ships in 2018. We were the first ones to do that. We have one of the most transparent ESG environmental reports publicly available that we publish every year. We were just awarded last year 2023, for the 2023 season to be the number one most sustainable and ESG compliant cruise company expedition as well as mainstream cruise company that exists today, and we're very proud of the fact that we combine sustainability, education, science on all of our trips, combined with comfort, and what I mean by that and this is the value based business that we run, which corresponds very much with my own personal values as well is we do pay a lot of attention to sustainability, because that's one of the reasons as to why you want to take people to those far remote places, specifically the poles, the arctic area, the antarctic area, where, where climate change happens four times faster than anywhere else in the world and more people have to be made aware of that.
Speaker 2:I'm a firm believer in the fact that we, as human beings, will react to a show and tell rather than just a tell. When we see something, it's more impactful. When we experience it ourselves. It's much more impactful than if just somebody talks about it and we have real science on board. And why I emphasize real science is because it is not something that we create and put up for tourists to travel with us. It is actual science.
Speaker 2:We provide around 1,800 cruise nights a year for scientists, whom we ship around free of charge to bring them to destinations to perform scientific analysis and projects while they travel with us, and our customers can participate in that as citizen scientists. We have over 30 relationships with science institutes and universities around the globe that we actively work with on projects, and each guest that participates can actually follow through on these projects and can see what they have contributed and what they have worked on. So really interesting stuff, from measuring the density of plankton in the south and on the northern seas to taking samples of whale skin to understand the migration and the behavior of whales in those waters, amongst many other projects that are being done in those waters, amongst many other projects that are being done, and that sort of sets us apart a little bit and is very specific to Expedition Cruise, but very specific to what we do, because we execute on all of these specific areas in an equally emphasized and important way. That is important to us as well as to our customers.
Speaker 1:We certainly covered a few very important topics there Sustainability, which clearly is paramount when you're operating in such sensitive ecological areas as the polar regions.
Speaker 1:So not only is that encouraging to hear, but obviously it's incredibly important for sustainability in the future of travel to those regions. So obviously I know that's important to travelers and to our listeners. I understand and clearly, as you mentioned to yourself as well, I think the and I guess just to ask a specific question on that I'm sure it's a combination of driven by the interest in guests as well as the motivation from the team to make sure that you know you can offer these types of experiences for generations to come, despite, obviously, the significant impacts that we're seeing of global warming, especially as it relates to the polar region. So I guess, just to cover off sustainability, was that something that was specifically an initiative internally based on the idea that you need to be mindful? Is the combination of the fact that travelers are asking you more and more about the sustainability of traveling to these regions? Tell us a little bit more about that, since I know it's so important to guests today that are considering these types of experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really born out of the Scandinavian, or the Norwegian way of life.
Speaker 2:Norway, and Scandinavia as a whole, has always been very environmentally focused and the people of Norway, the population itself, lives in a mindful way in terms of sustainability.
Speaker 2:So when the expedition cruise segment of Forte Gruden was set up, all of that was in the mind of those executives and people that worked on that, meaning that from the design of those two new ships, the Nunsen and the Amundsen, where we have specific special hull design that reduces carbon emissions by 20%, where they're all icebreaker qualified ships, battery powered, as I mentioned, hybrid before full heat recycling and retaining systems, full recycling capabilities on the ships as well, all of that was a natural part of the thinking and that sort of corresponded with a general increase in awareness in people and potential customers as well, where more and more the question came how sustainable is it when you take a ship into the Arctic region or up the west coast of Greenland or down into Antarctica?
Speaker 2:It's sort of an oxymoron when you just think about it simply, where you try to talk about the danger of these areas being affected by climate change and then you take a cruise ship into these areas that you know, has a carbon footprint that you really don't want to leave behind. So reducing that footprint in every aspect, in terms of the impact on communities, in terms of the impact on the environments, on marine life, ocean life all of that is very, very important and for us, the emphasis is not so much on carbon offsets but on really reducing carbon emissions.
Speaker 1:Right, which is incredibly important.
Speaker 1:And I guess the other thing I wanted to ask you about too, when you started to mention about the ships and the itineraries themselves, and specifically the science, because I think my kids would absolutely love that and I had noticed that on your website some of the science initiatives, and Alex had highlighted that as well I had noticed that on your website, some of the science initiatives, and Alex had highlighted that as well, so I was most intrigued about how that all comes together, because that's so important for, as you say, the mindful guest, the on-trip experience, to be immersed in the destination and be able to have that level of expertise.
Speaker 1:Was that something that was a recent evolution or is that something also that's kind of been tied to the brand for many years in that, or is that something also that's kind of been tied to the the brand for many years? The idea that you know, even with some of the original ships, that you were connecting with scientists and giving them access to these regions no, it was tied to the whole idea and it's actually tied to the history of Hurtigruten and of HX.
Speaker 2:When you go back in the history when Manson and Amundsen were exploring the poles specifically, specifically the Arctic, they did scientific projects as well. Hurtigruten, as a company, has been for many years since the 1930s I think been assisting in collecting water samples in various different areas up and down the coast and has actually contributed to the largest water sample collection in the world. That's being used by most of the scientists around the world today to study the change in the contents and the consistency of ocean water, of seawater. So it's not something that was born because it's trendy or because it's a nice addition to the ship. It really is core to what we do and who we are as an expedition company.
Speaker 1:Very interesting and I appreciate you sharing that because I think that's important context for really understanding the brand experience and the type of guests that are going to be attracted to HX.
Speaker 1:That I'm keen to ask you about as well. But let's continue on the ship experience, because I've not had the opportunity to do any expedition cruising, so I'm very intrigued about this entire topic and category, and so I was looking at the different ships and trying to also figure out the different itineraries because, as you mentioned, you've got the five ships Santa Cruz is the one, santa Cruz 2 is the one that takes travelers to the Galapagos yeah, we were last year. So I'd love to understand a bit more about the on-ship experience and so what some of the expectations would be from guests in terms of the cuisine, the rooms themselves, how do you sort of position Is it in terms of luxurious amenities? I'm sure you're asked that all the time, given your background in hospitality and so how do you approach the appointments of these ships and sort of what standard would you convey to our listeners of what they should expect from a HX experience?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you compare it back to hospitality, I would I would place it at the abrupt scale and luxury segment. That's what we do. It's it's it's adventure all-inclusive and we actually use that terminology now that we have switched to all-inclusive as well on our ships. So it truly is all-inclusive. You don't have to worry about having to pay extra for drinks or having to pay extra for food because you go into this place. Here.
Speaker 2:Most of the experiences are included as well. There's a few exceptions. So, for example, if you want to camp out on the ice in Antarctica, that would be an addition that you pay for. If you want to camp out on the ice in Antarctica, that would be an addition that you pay for. Some of the kayaking experiences amongst the icebergs are additional expense, but pretty much everything on board is included.
Speaker 2:What you can expect on board is and that was surprising to me as a non-cruise guy when I came into the industry and joined Ajax is really a high level of luxury, a high level of comfort. It's this combination of environmental consciousness, adventure and comfort, and the comfort is provided through luxurious and spacious cabins and suites, very high-end culinary experiences in the restaurant. So if you are on one of the bigger ones, like Anderson or Mun munson. You have a choice of three different restaurants that you can eat, very high in cuisine, international cuisine, healthy cuisine. You have a choice of of wines and drinks and there is a separate bar and there are different public areas and public spaces. There's a full fitness center, a spa you have, which is sort of a nice sort of side effect, and an attraction.
Speaker 2:You have on each one of them, a sauna. Because we are we are norwegian born and scandinavia is big on saunas with big outside windows. So you actually are in the sauna sweating and you look at these icebergs floating by. But it's a luxurious experience, but it's not, um, it's not uh, uh, it's not a regular luxury. It really is what I would call, uh, casual luxury. It is. Some call it scandinavian chic, some call it Scandinavian chic, some call it experiential luxury, but to me it's very casual luxury. It's when you know you get top quality products but you don't have to dress up in a suit and a tie and go for dinner.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I like the description because that's exactly what I picture from some people that love ocean cruising or mainstream cruising. They love the idea of getting dressed up for the gala dinner and I just didn't expect that would be a thing on HX because clearly you know it's going to be much more an affluent clientele that are going to be very interested in being intellectually stimulated and have this incredible immersive experience in these destinations. But yeah, they're going to be wearing, they're going to be wearing outdoor adventure gear more than getting dressed up for dinner, but it's great to know that the onboard experience, because I think that's obviously paramount for new guests.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about the types of customers that are attracted to HX and I guess I'm specifically keen to know I'm assuming, given the history and the legacy of the business, you draw a lot from Scandinavia and Europe, but are more and more guests coming from USA, canada, australia? Where are you drawing guests from? And then, if I was to picture looking around on the ship obviously I've seen a lot of photos, but if I close my eyes and open them again and I'm on a ship, tell us a little bit about the type of people that are attracted to HX. Is it 50 plus? Is it couples? Tell us a little bit more about the type of travelers that take these trips.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's typically couples, although we do have single travelers as well, but typically couples. It's people who my colleagues would often say or use the term people who have a bucket list and want to have that on their bucket list to go to Antarctica or to go to the Arctic. I refer more to it in terms of saying these are people who have an adventurous spirit, who want to be more mindful about their travel and have destinations that have been desirable to them, that they want to get to and now can afford to get to. So it's an affluent client. They are about 50 typically, although there's a generational shift now we have some younger generations that have the expendable income who are very interested in this experiential travel, but typically they are about 50 couples who have, like I said, an adventurous spirit, people who are internationally versatile.
Speaker 2:So it's not their first trip, it's typically not necessarily their first cruise and they're very surprised when they get on to. Often. They're very surprised when they get on to expedition cruise to see how different it is to mainstream cruise and I I always keep emphasizing on the fact that expedition cruise is really different to mainstream cruising. It's almost as if it's not comparable to cruising per se, because the ship is a means of transport. In this case it's not. The actual attraction of it is the destination you go to and the experience that is being provided through wildlife and what you participate in, the activities and the science.
Speaker 1:Got it, okay, yeah, sorry, please finish. Please finish, I'll fix that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's a different approach. It's a slightly different clientele as well. That goes on to Expedition Cruise. You asked about the market demographics and the breakdown. So currently we have roughly about 25% to 30% European clients, continental European, mainly German-speaking clients in Germany because of Kulti Bruggen's household name in Germany, a very strong the brand. We have about 22% 23% out of the UK, also very strong in terms of the Hurtigruten brand. Here we have about 20% coming from North America right now and about 20% from Australia, new Zealand and China, and the rest is all distributed.
Speaker 2:The biggest opportunity from a market perspective is obviously North America and specifically the US. It's the largest consumer market in the world and it is a market where Expedition Cruise is now becoming more and more noted. The awareness is growing and there is a high interest in Expedition Cruise. I was surprised when we met in Las Vegas at Virtuoso. I was surprised actually about the fact that more and more people are paying attention to the sustainability aspect of what we do. I thought that education and science is probably more interesting for most people in the US, but sustainability is growing in the US. But sustainability is growing. I think people are more and more realizing that the environment that we live in is becoming very important, and something needs to be done to maintain it for the next generations as well.
Speaker 1:For sure and that definitely was one of the sentiments you highlighted from our time together which is that one of the fastest growing categories is expedition cruising, luxury cruising, and there's sort of an insatiable demand for that style of travel.
Speaker 1:But sustainability is paramount for the travelers as well that we're seeing. So, in terms of the itineraries, one of the things I wanted to also highlight for all of our listeners that are joining on this journey as they're wrapping their head around ocean cruising and expedition cruising and this is the one episode that we're doing a deep dive into expedition cruising I wanted to give everyone kind of an idea of the itineraries themselves, like the duration and the costs involved, to give kind of people just a bit of a framework. And so if you wouldn't mind kind of just walking us through a couple of examples of itineraries, of what a typical duration is and then also, given you've kind of spoken to what's all included, people can kind of get an idea of what the costs are going to be, so they can start making that plan for that honeymoon or that anniversary or that retirement and it's like they can start budgeting accordingly. But yeah, take us through some of the itinerary and pricing schools.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the itinerary is, I think, the easiest itinerary, specifically for the American market the North American market is Galapagos in many ways, because you have that luxury of having short itineraries. There's a four-day, there is a six-day, you can combine the two into a 10-day itinerary, but it gives you choices for a shorter-term break or a shorter-term vacation, which sometimes is important, depending on how much time people have available. When you go into the Arctic, the itinerary is typically stretched longer because there are locations where you cruise to, where you get to, where you just cannot get on or off because there is no airport nearby, there is no community that would be able to take you. So if you, for example, go up to Svalbard in the north of Norway, close to the, to the north pole, above the 80th longitude, it's a 10-day cruise minimum because you have to circumvent, you just basically go around or you go all the way up and then you come back the same uh, the same uh place into longyearbyen, which is the only or the last sort of habited place up there in the north. So our, our north and our south and antarctica cruises are typically between 10 and 18 days.
Speaker 2:You can do a cruise for 21 or 28 days to the Northwest Northwest Passage, for example, which is now possibly because of unfortunately because of climate change, so the ice retreats much earlier and it's ice free in the summer, so you can cruise through it. That's typically a 28-day journey. If you go from Alaska all the way over to Greenland or the other way. We do both, but it's fascinating, of course, because you go through the Nunavut Nations region up there in the Northern Arctic Canadian area, you pass through part of Canada, you get from the US, you come to Greenland and the Inuit communities there. A lot of very interesting stops with community visits and work that we do with those communities in order to support them and understand and learn from them what they need from us, rather than telling them what we need from them that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:So I'm just going to quickly say that's one of the itineraries. Being born in england, raised in canada and familiar with the history and being a big history buff, the northwest passage and, as you rightly call out, obviously, given some of the, the factors that have led to that opening, but there's also um, it's it's a um, a rare and unique opportunity for to be able to take that type of trip. That is, still those areas are less explored and people are familiar with some of the epic stories of some of the early explorers that got stranded in those environments. And and so I just wanted to ask you, if you don't mind, in terms of those, are you seeing an interest in some of those new itineraries that you're building out? Is that part of the reason you're developing some of those is that there is a strong appetite and interest for these new expedition cruising experiences?
Speaker 2:There is absolutely an interest and there is a sort of a growing demand from people to look for new destinations for the, the uncharted areas, if you will, and the Northwest passage is a really good example of that. Less than a thousand people so far have actually made that journey in the history, including those explorers from the early days. So if you add it all up, it's less than a thousand people who have made that Northwest Passage. So that's something that, from an experience point of view, is absolutely memorable and unique.
Speaker 2:When you think about, you could be the 837th person that goes through the Northwest Passage and you touch all these historic points where you had the explorers Nunson, scott and all the others put their feet down at times when they didn't have the conveniences that we have today. They didn't have the clothing that we have today, and Nunson, for example, was stuck on a ship with his crew for three years, frozen in ice on the front, floating with the ice across the arctic. It's unimaginable to us today how anybody would survive a journey like that, but they did, and they they did incredibly groundbreaking work at the time. That gives us today you know that that backdrop as to why it is important to really understand these very sensitive areas and and sort of recalibrate the history when you are there yeah, that's fascinating for me.
Speaker 1:I just was going to also ask and this may be an obvious point or question, but I'm still intrigued to know myself and other people listening to this that are now completely intrigued about the idea of doing that type of an itinerary, an excursion. Is that I'm assuming that's part of the experience is actually learning about the history and visiting some of the places and having them pointed out to you that this is where some of the earlier explorers traveled or where they got stuck and so on? Is that, is that part of, uh, part of the experience?
Speaker 2:absolutely part of the experience. So we have historians on our, on our ships. We have a lot of different scientists. We have geologists, ornithologists every type of different scientist that does experiments or can contribute to the experience of our customers is on board and they hold lectures that you can participate in. There's every day different lectures that tell you about the history, tell you about the geology, tell you about really interesting things, such as, for me, it was mind-boggling when I went up to Svalbard in the north of Norway and we had a landing where we went on land and we went on a hike and walked around and the guide that we had was a geologist who says, just for your information, don't just look up and and ahead of you, just look down on the ground as well.
Speaker 2:We were walking across rubble stones and he said pick up one of those stones. And some of us picked up a stone. He says turn it over and you had the imprint of plants and and fossils and it was just unbelievable. And and he talked to the fact that this is, you know, 200 million years old and you have to imagine, because there's a leaf imprint on this stone, that Svalbard was actually in a tropical area before the tectonic plates start shifting, and the magnitude of this information when it starts sinking in this experience is absolutely unique. It is something that is difficult to describe because it's an emotional reaction you have that makes it a purposeful event and an adventure with a purpose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's incredible, and this is where for me, from the outside looking in, certainly the polls both hold a great deal of appeal. We'll be right back. Hey, travel publishers and content creators, if you're searching for a fresh way to boost your revenue, then look no further than our friends at Stay22. Their AI-powered solutions work seamlessly in the background, adding an extra stream of revenue without altering any of your site's setup. In 2024 alone, their tools have powered more than 2 billion pages and helped their partners generate more than $500 million in GMV. It's time for you to join successful partner programs like Matador Network and Weatherbug and elevate your earnings. Today, just go to stay22.com slash traveltrends and you'll get details on an exclusive offer just for Travel Trends listeners. That's stay22.com, slash traveltrends.
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Speaker 1:Slash northern soul and start receiving these incredible quarterly publications that feature rich images, amazing stories and will inspire your wanderlust to come to canada northern soul magazine by lansby, where every story connects you deeper to canada's culture, land and community. And now and now, back to the show, keen to know where you've traveled to, because clearly it seems to me, gebhard, that you have found the ideal role for you, given your background and history and being in this position now. And it's very clear to me you have a passion for it, but you're still relatively new to it, so I'm assuming you haven't done all the itineraries yet. No, I have not, yeah. So yeah, tell us about some of the itineraries that you've done and what stood out to you already on your journey in this new role.
Speaker 2:So my first day in the office was really getting onto a ship. I didn't want to get to the office physically before I had the experience of understanding what do we provide to guests, to customers, what are we actually selling here from an expedition perspective? So I went to Greenland. I flew from Copenhagen to Kangalooswak and on the first day of my job I already made the experience as to what it means to be on expedition and on adventure, meaning you're dealing with the unknown, with the unexpected. I arrived in Kangalooswak, which is an important airport because it was established in the Second World War by the Americans as a transit point over to Europe, but there's only about 350 people living there. It's really an outpost. It's at the end of the longest fjord that they have there and I landed there and the whole western coast of Greenland was in fog. I was supposed to fly down to Sissimut to catch up with the nuns on our ship there. To get on board, couldn't fly, all flights cancelled so I had to stay overnight in Hagelussuak. There's one hotel with 90 rooms which was already full before I arrived. No accommodation, but the hospitality of Greenlandians is, as such, it's just absolutely incredible. I get a phone call from our local Greenlandian destination manager and she says to me listen, I've organized it all. A friend of mine, you're going to stay at her house. I said, no, I can't do that. No, no, you're going to stay at her house, she's going to pick you up, she runs her own business, air Safari, and she insists that you stay with her. So I was invited into a Greenlandian house, stayed overnight there, next day was brought back to the airport and I flew to Ilulissat because the ship had moved in the meantime, and joined the ship there, spent four days in Greenland to understand the actual purpose of what we do and what we provide to our customers. Huge, huge impression, an incredible way to actually start in the company because it gives you the right frame of mind in terms of what I saw and what I think we could do differently or better, what we actually do fantastically well.
Speaker 2:I then did a trip. We have a partnership in Ecuador with a tour operating company down there which allows us to have the ship in Galapagos, the Santa Cruz 2, because it's heavily regulated, government controlled, there's no more tickets available, so there's no additional cruise companies that can go in there 1680, I think, cabin cruises that are available in Galapagos and they cannot be exceeded. So you can't have more than that. That service is Galapagos.
Speaker 2:I went to Ecuador, went across to Galapagos, visited our ship quickly, didn't have enough time to actually do the whole cruise, but saw the incredible nature of Galapagos and the opportunity, and again the same sort of impression, because you feel the spirit of Darwin, you feel that evolution is taking place there and you can see in the behavior of the animals that they have never encountered any danger from human beings.
Speaker 2:You know, you walk down the pier in santa cruz, which is one of the the main, uh, living places there, and there are sea lions coming towards you, not afraid or anything, or not aggressive. They're just walking up because the planks are warm and they lie down and sleep there, so you've got to walk around them. It's just incredible to be so close to nature and to wildlife. And then I did Svalbard for 10 days and it had to be 10 days because I couldn't get off which was a unique experience. I mean to be so high up north and to feel history and to be told, when you talk to the historians and they stand on a beach landing there, that the Dutch and the English were there in the 16th century whaling and tried to stay the winters and tried to set up living places and didn't succeed because it was so harsh and you see the remnants there of where they boiled the blubber of the whales and it's just absolutely incredible, these experiences.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you sharing those, because you've done three, so you've only got maybe two more to at least round up the collection.
Speaker 2:I've done three. There's Antarctica still that I really need to do. I haven't done the Northwest Passage and then there's a number of other in-between destinations that we have. We do the British Isles, we do Iceland, we do the Ferry Islands. There's a number of very interesting places that eventually we get to.
Speaker 1:As I was mentioning, I went to the Galapagos last year and I think I could have experienced it that much more profoundly from a ship, with all the different vantage points, given that your ships take people to so many incredible places in the world that don't necessarily have the infrastructure. But there may be some people that are hesitant because they're not comfortable with the idea of being on an expedition ship, whether it is just the idea of being out on the water. I would love to make sure that people don't miss this opportunity. If you wouldn't mind telling us how you help new customers go on that journey with you to make sure they're going to feel comfortable sailing the high seas and doing an expedition adventure type cruise, yeah, I mean first of all, security and safety of our customers, as well as our crew, is priority number one.
Speaker 2:in everything we do, safety and security is always top of the agenda and always number one. So it's absolutely perfectly safe to get onto one of our ships. We have very caring individuals on board that look after the well-being of everybody and the comforts are there. There is nothing to worry about in terms of feeling uncomfortable. Yes, you have to deal with the oceans and with nature. That's part of expedition and part of the unknown sometimes that you get into when you go into remote places on this planet. But the advantage that we have is clearly the fact that we have two hybrid ships that are at a size where it is a lot more comfortable to travel on those than if you are on a 50 or a 90 passenger ship and you try to cross Drake's Passage to get to Antarctica. 50 or a 90 passenger ship and you try to cross Drake's Passage to get to Antarctica. Drake's Passage is one of the most energy loaded waterways in the world to get across to Antarctica and it can be very rough. My recommendation would be, if you don't know if you get seasick or don't get seasick because you may not have been on many cruises, bring some pills with you. There are pills out there that help you through that. And then we have on board medical facilities and doctors who are always there on call, who can help out. We have very caring hotel staff on board that make sure you get the food that you need when you don't feel so well and that you get really good food when you feel well and want to celebrate the whole experience.
Speaker 2:But the journey itself, that transport, as I call it should not deter anybody from this unique experience, this immersion into something that is absolutely memorable. It's going to stay with you for a lifetime. It's not only memorable but it's educational as well, which to me, is a big part of the importance of what we do. Coupled with the fact that you can participate in science, which is incredible. You have people on board who tell you everything about the history of the footsteps that you take on grounds that people have been on, who explored this planet, who have been the first ones to step on these, on these grounds, be that in the antarctic or in the arctic or in the galapagos, as you had mentioned before. So the focus I would recommend to anybody the focus should be on the experience, on this immersion, on this unique um call it bucket list. Uh, type of of adventure, adventure that you get on the means of transport, you can get unwell sitting in the back of a bus going through the Andes.
Speaker 1:Definitely and not see nearly as much Right. I definitely needed to hear that I'm sure many of our listeners did as well In terms of where HX is heading and this category in general. I'd love to get your take on that Obviously yourself being the CEO of this amazing company that is one of the oldest and the largest fleet, and so I would love to get your view on the next kind of three to five years, as we are in 2025, looking into the next few years of adventure and expedition cruising. Where do you see the industry headed in terms of the growth potential? Are you guys adding new ships, new itineraries? Take us through what the future looks like for HX and expedition cruising.
Speaker 2:So in general for the industry, we have seen an over 70% increase in passengers since 2019 to now, so the interest has certainly increased and the awareness has increased. Hx Expeditions for us after the separation from Hurtigruten and we are purely HX Expeditions, so we don't have Hurtigruten in our name anymore our main focus continues to be on those three pillars that we have sustainability, science and education. Couple that with comfort, as I explained it to somebody the other day. For me, a very important factor is to understand and have the satisfaction for us as a company to know that customers who have taken the journeys with us, who have been on voyages with us, when they get off our ships we have been able to affect the mindset change with them. They talk differently to their relatives, their families and their friends when they come off the ships and talk about their experiences, and that's really what we want to achieve.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are intending to grow. We are a company that, just like any other business, is dependent on its success. We have a huge opportunity to increase the success that we currently experience. I hope that 25, by all means, the way it looks right now should be a very successful season for us so that by 26,. We can actually start looking at order books and expanding the fleet a little bit and take that next level of development and advancement in terms of hybrid ships, in terms of sustainability from a cruising point of view, and get the latest and greatest in modern expedition cruise design for our new ships and bring them into the fleet.
Speaker 1:That's great. I appreciate you sharing that. And one of the last questions I wanted to ask you too. I want to ask you one question for our listeners and then one question I'm just curious to know about where you're traveling to next. But given you've had such an impressive career and still very much are in very much your prime and leading this business to great success, I'd love to hear your advice for those listeners out there that I know you're relatively new to the cruise and expedition cruising space, but obviously you spent your entire career in the travel industry and are now so poised for continued growth. So if you were to give any advice to someone listening to this looking to get into the travel industry or to work their way up in the travel industry, would you mind sharing one or two of your keys to success?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I appreciate that. I think one of the keys to success in any industry or in any form of job that we do is be authentic. Be who you are, because you can't be anybody else. You've got to be true to yourself, and there will always be people who like what you do and who you aren't. There are some people who don't, and that's how we are built as human beings. And that's how we are built as human beings. The other point that I have always had for myself is if there is another human being out there that does something that can be done, then I can do it as well. So if there was a man that walked on the moon, if I put my mind to it, I can walk on the moon as well. I can be an astronaut, but put your passion behind it. You have to be passionate about it, your belief behind it, your whole person behind it, and have conviction with it.
Speaker 2:I've, since I was very, very young, I've always enjoyed hospitality and travel and I've had the fortunate experience, experience and the fortune to come across people and across companies who have given me the opportunity to see the world.
Speaker 2:I've left my home country of Austria when I was 19 years old and literally explored the world through hospitality.
Speaker 2:I moved into the Caribbean, out of the Caribbean into the Middle East, into Eastern Europe, into Western Europe, out of the Caribbean into the Middle East, into Eastern Europe, into Western Europe, into the US, into the Caribbean.
Speaker 2:Now I'm on floating hotels, so to say, on the expedition cruises, and cruise around everywhere. I've had the fortune to travel to and see over 120 countries in the world and it really opens up your perspective and it makes you think differently. It opens up your tolerance towards different cultures, different beliefs, different people, and I think it is very important, specifically when you look at the world that we live in today. So my advice to anybody who is interested in the travel and hospitality industry is make use of what it offers, and what it offers is an unlimited opportunity to visit, view and experience the world. It's not just experience it on vacation, but live in different cultures, live in different places, different countries, and enhance yourself by those experiences. Just like we provide experiences to our customers that they have been dreaming about and saving up for, you can make experiencing all of that part of your own life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's excellent advice and I'm glad I asked you that question because that's. And then the last one, this one's for me is I'd love to know where you're traveling in 2025. What's on your bucket list? Which is your next HX expedition?
Speaker 2:So my next HX expedition is Antarctica. I am actually going down in January to visit Antarctica and to see what we again, what we provide to our customers there. I will do a couple of other voyages next year. I want to plan to do a portion of the Northwest Passage. Unfortunately I can't be away 28 days from the office and spend the rest of the year, but I want to do a portion of it, so that's going to be interesting. And then, from a personal travel point of view, away from Expedition Cruise, I'm planning to visit Bhutan. That's one of my long dreams that I've had to go to the Kingdom of Bhutan, so I'm planning to do that next year.
Speaker 1:As well, just to finish off, I want to make sure that, for all the people listening to this, especially travel agencies and people on the B2b side, which is, you know, the vast majority of our audience, that they know how to get more information about hx, because I was actually I like the domain travel hxcom, um, I was gonna that's um, uh, but yeah, tell everyone how they can connect with you or get more information about uh, about hx yeah, travelhaxcom is where you get the base information.
Speaker 2:We have business development managers and teams in every geography, in every region of this world, but we're a small enough company, so please get in touch with me directly If you have any questions, if I can do anything for you. My email is very simple. It's my first name, gabhardreiner, at travelajaxcom, and I'd be happy to answer any questions. I'm happy to point people in the right direction. I'm happy to make arrangements for anybody who has any special thoughts or wishes, and we are flexible enough. We are agile enough to do that. It is truly a unique experience once you have done it to get to some of these far-reaching destinations and places.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Thank you for sharing your email address directly. I'm sure you'll hear from a number of people with not only bookings but partnerships, and so thank you, gebhard, for sharing that, making your time for this conversation. I was really looking forward to it and exceeded my expectations conversation. I was really looking forward to it and exceeded my expectations. I'm so keen to see your continued success and everything you have in store now with HX as a standalone business, so, wishing you and the team continued success in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 2:Thanks very much, and we'll catch up on one of our cruises with you. I've got to take you to Antarctica or up to Greenland. I would love that.
Speaker 1:I look forward to that very much. We'll be right back. Are you interested in learning more about how AI is impacting the travel industry? Well then, you have to check out travelaicom slash trends. Travel AI are the leaders in implementing AI across a range of exciting travel businesses, and they share and showcase many of the exciting developments on this page with our listeners. Their team knows that AI is going to transform every industry on the planet, and the best companies today are integrating AI into all of their processes. So check out the latest developments at travelaicom slash trends and learn how to make your travel business more efficient. They're also on LinkedIn, pinterest and Twitter.
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Speaker 1:Alex, it's great to have you on Travel Trends Fantastic to be here today, well, and I'm very keen to have this conversation with you because of your new role. So congratulations on your promotion to expedition officer, thank you very much.
Speaker 3:All my childhood dreams come true.
Speaker 1:Well, you've certainly worked your way up to deserve that title and position. I guess you're the first CXO that we've had on Travel Trends. And the X, of course, doesn't mean customer experience, it means expedition, and I couldn't be more timely to have this conversation. But of course we're doing our deep dive into the cruise industry. Ocean and expedition Gebhard the CEO. Of course we're doing our deep dive into the cruise industry. Ocean and expedition Gebhard the CEO, of course, is part of this conversation as well. But I'd love to get your backstory and understand a bit how you actually got into this industry itself, because you've been in this space at Quark for nearly 15 years and then HX now for the last several years and I guess tell us a little bit about what actually brought you into this industry in the first place. Yeah, I guess tell us a little bit about what actually brought you into this industry in the first place?
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks, dan. So I've been in the expedition cruise industry almost 20 years now, which is kind of exciting. The first 10 years I spent the majority of my time up to nine months of each year in the field, exploring the remote parts of the world. I've had the privilege of standing at the Geographic North Pole on 14 separate occasions. I've done close to 200 expeditions over that time and, yeah, I loved being an expedition leader.
Speaker 3:I love delivering fantastic experiences to our guests, exploring new places and trying to push the frontiers of travel in a really responsible way, and I came to a period where I realized that there was only so much that I could do. There were certain parameters that were set for me as an expedition leader working in the delivery stage. The way the trips were designed was set, usually a year, two or perhaps even more in advance. So I wanted to move further upstream, to have a greater impact on the experiences that our guests get to enjoy and set our teams and our partners up for success. So, yeah, in all seriousness, speaking about childhood dreams, I never imagined that this would be possible, that this kind of job existed, and the pathway for me to get into the business was actually purely by chance. Actually, purely by chance. My first career was as a carpenter and I was running a build and design business in Northern Ontario Happened to meet someone who was involved in the business. They said would you like to join? And the rest was history.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's remarkable. I mean, there's certainly a lot of people that spend their entire career in the cruise industry and they'll meet a number of those people over the course of the month that we're running this special deep dive into cruise. But you're unique in the sense that your role has always been focused on expedition and that obviously has been a major trend in the last 20 years, that more and more travelers are choosing expedition style trips. So it's very timely for us to have this conversation that you are a pure expedition guy.
Speaker 1:So maybe actually, let's start there and give all of our listeners an understanding of what the difference is between a typical ocean cruise and an expedition experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great point. So expedition cruising is really starting to emerge into the mainstream travel ecosystem for many years In earnest. The industry is around 30 years old, like the large influx of companies in the first stage happened in the early 1990s, and it is high time. It's a fantastic segment. It provides really meaningful opportunities for people to see very special places and, yeah, so the evolution has been taking place, and for me, one of the things that I'm really excited about is to see the change in the ships that are being used, that are being deployed, the strategies that are being activated around respect for the environment and respect for the local people who we interact with, and so those are kind of front of mind right now.
Speaker 3:The big differences, I would say, between expedition cruising and what we often refer to as mainstream cruising. The first one is destination. So a lot of the destinations that expedition cruise companies focus on are probably beyond the frontiers of conventional cruise lines, so we're talking about the ends of the earth, so to speak Svalbard, greenland, northwest Passage, antarctica. There's very little overlap. The other is purpose, like why you're going there. The destination is usually the focus, and the other is the level of engagement you have with the people you're traveling with, you usually form really strong bonds. You get to know the teams, you get to know locals in a more intimate, meaningful way. That's really interesting. I guess that's where for both of us.
Speaker 1:My background, of course, is in adventure travel G Adventures and so G Adventures, of course, had a marine program and had the Explorer ship and then the Expedition ship, and has been very focused on the Arctic programs Antarctic and so this is a real specialty though, both of your time at Quark and then now at HX, and so I'm really intrigued, given you've got so much field experience and, obviously, development. But in terms of developing these products for customers that are about to experience these incredible destinations around the world, tell us a little bit more about the size of the ships that you operate to go to those regions and what travelers should expect from being able to do one of these. What I think most people would consider to be um, uh, outside, you know, I think you use the word mainstream, so sort of outside of the comfort zone, it's a much more adventurous style of travel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great point, dan, and one thing I should be clear about is that the imagery that even the word expedition evokes can usually be misleading. You know, it's this hardship, it's this like really challenging environment, and one of the fantastic evolutions that we've seen in the business is that it is more accessible. You can still push yourself in a way that's comfortable for you, that meets your ability and expectations, and there's a process of, let's say, self-discovery, so to speak. And you mentioned the destinations. The expedition industry was really expedition cruise industry was really born in the polar regions, as far as the expedition cruise segment goes.
Speaker 3:And now we're taking that playbook and applying it to other destinations to create more intimate, more meaningful connections with the destinations, to allow travelers to spend more time in the environment, to have more of a focus on learning as a big part of the program. So, when it comes to what people can do, there's a lot of off-ship activities. So people can go hiking, they can go kayaking, they can go out on zodiac cruises, which are small inflatable boats, kind of sightseeing tours. You can have cultural experiences and for us at HX, we apply this model that's largely focused on science and discovery, in addition to what I mentioned, in those conventional destinations, but also destinations like Alaska or Galapagos, south and Central America, and our fleet ranges, for our smallest ship is the Santa Cruz Dos, which operates in Galapagos, with 90 passengers, and we go up to the still intimate size of 500 passengers on our flagships Roald Amundsen and Fridtjof Nansen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was interesting. When I was preparing for our conversation, I was looking at certain itineraries you had in Galapagos. One stood out to me, as you just highlighted, the expedition cruising certainly started with the polar regions but now has expanded to many other destinations around the world. Do people actually prefer the idea of taking a small ship cruise experience? For many of those travelers, one of the pain points of a mainstream cruise is the time it takes to offload the ship. So, if you are 90 passengers or 200 to 300 passengers and, as you mentioned, the activities you have to be able to do, zodiacs and really experience the destination. So, yeah, tell us a little bit more. So you've got, obviously, the polar regions.
Speaker 1:One of the other ones that stood out to me was you, interestingly, are based in Toronto as well. We're not together in person today, and the one thing that really actually made me laugh when I was again preparing for our chat and getting a chance to meet you is your accent. You had highlighted I guess you have a British mother, a Zambian father and a West Australian wife, and so people are trying to place your accent. You're based in Canada. You're a Canadian for all intents and purposes. Now your family's here, your kids are here, but, yes, you're a man of the world by virtue of your accent.
Speaker 3:I take that as a great compliment, dan. I remember I was speaking at a tourism conference in Iqaluit a few years ago and I was asked to introduce myself, and I've had the privilege of traveling around the north northern Canada for a few years and, rather than describing myself, this is who I work for and this is why I'm here. I said I feel like I'm a guest wherever I go. You know, I moved countries, my parents moved around, we settled in different places, I lived in different parts of the world, so I don't feel ownership over any given place, world. So I don't feel ownership over any given place and I take that my responsibility as a guest very seriously. When I go to someone's home, I make sure I contribute or do the dishes or, you know, earn the reward of being there and being invited, and that attitude applies the same to visiting remote destinations and interacting with local communities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. I was raised by English parents here in Canada and one of the things that going to someone else's home was always the dishes, and that's one of the things I'm adamant with our kids that the first thing you have to do is try to help. You're not being served, so but anyway. But I guess back to the experience on a cruise ship, so I just wanted to make sure all of our listeners had a bit more understanding about your background and hearing your voice and also trying to place that you're in Canada as well. So that was one of the itineraries that stood out to me was the Northwest Passage and Arctic Canada. But tell us a little about some of the itineraries you are developing, given this is such a big focus for travelers in 2025. Is it about building out new ships and adding capacity to some of the existing regions? Is it about adding new destinations? Yeah, tell us about how this space is evolving.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for us, our strategy right now, looking forward, is to really leverage the relationships that we have and the destinations we go to. This is another thing that can be inherent in the cruise industry overall is a lot of itineraries kind of do like pass bys, you just like drift by. You might visit a place once or twice where we're really trying to maximize the value we create locally and the participation of our local partners in the, in the creation of the experiences that we offer. I mean travelers the world over, myself included, probably you too, dan, is. You know, when we go to places we want to feel welcomed, we want to feel like we're getting an authentic experience and I think cruise companies, perhaps out of unintentional ignorance or just not knowing, can miss the opportunity to develop those really intimate and meaningful connections with local partners.
Speaker 3:So for us, what we're looking at, we've got a great new program in West Greenland. There's a new airport strategy. Actually, the first airport in Nuuk, the capital, is opening on my birthday, november 28th, 2024, coming up, and myself and our CEO Gebhardhard have been invited as strategic partners of air greenland to join that, join that program. So we've got some great itineraries there. We're also entering the uh, a new phase of evolution in our alaska programs. So alaska, fantastic destination for any type of cruising. But we fill this really uh cool niche where we're between the larger mainstream ships, but we're slightly. Our ship that operates there, royal Dominson, is slightly larger than the kind of domestic operators, who are much smaller capacity, and so with our sustainability platform I think we really have a distinct offering in Alaska as well.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. Greenland has been highlighted to me from a number of colleagues as one of the places they want to travel to in 2025. So it's interesting. That stood out to me as well. But I guess to take a step back for our listeners and for those people that are less familiar with expedition cruising and clearly obviously tying it to the poles makes sense. But I want to understand what sets HX apart from other expedition cruising companies, given that you worked at Quark and not that you want to compare to your previous company, but certainly there is a small group of companies that offer these types of experiences and I'm sure part of the strategy with HX is to make sure that people are choosing Hurtigrden Expeditions or HX over the competitors. So there's many things I'm sure, as the chief expedition officer, that you're looking to develop with the ships, with the itinerary. So tell us a little bit more about that to help our listeners understand what really sets HX apart.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for us, what we truly believe in that sets us apart is three pillars. The first is, when you're operating in these environments, experience matters, and Quark actually has a very rich heritage that dates back to that kind of evolution of the industry in the early 90s, when many of the pioneering companies took shape. For us at HX, we believe we're the experts in expedition. We've been doing this since 1896. And our coming of age was kind of at the same time as these really famous Norwegian explorers like Roald Amundsen, fridtjof Nansen, whose namesake is emblazoned in our ship's names. Our first captain was Otto Sverdrup. He was actually Geoff Nansen's captain on board the Fram when he attempted to reach the North Pole. So that's one thing that sets us apart is our legacy.
Speaker 3:The second one is made for curious travelers. So our focus is on learning and discovery. So our focus is on learning and discovery Now that you can counterbalance that against the ultra luxury operators, that you can come back with rich stories to share with your friends, your colleagues, your network, and you're changed in a way. Your eyes are open, wider and your heart filled with really meaningful experiences. And the last part of our proposition is that we're the leaders in mindful travel of our proposition is that we're the leaders in mindful travel, so we take our obligation very seriously to the environments that we operate in and to the people who host us, who welcome us to their shores. So we're the leaders in sustainability strategies. We're one of the only actually one of only two expedition cruise companies who transparently disclose all of our sustainability statistics. There are many who are following in our footsteps, which is great, with kind of vague sustainability reports, but up until recently we were the only, and a few months ago we became one of two companies to put clear, transparent disclosures out into the public sphere.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you brought that up because it's one of the important topics that we've been highlighting on this series about cruise and sustainability and how important that is, because that's certainly one of the main issues or concerns that people have about cruise experiences. So let's talk about that as it relates to expedition, because I would assume, especially if you're going to places like the Antarctic or the Arctic, you're going to be exceptionally conscientious of the impact you're having on the environment. So how do you approach that at HX and make sure that you are minimizing the impact on the uh, um, the local ecology and and um and but bringing people close to nature, um, without uh having an adverse impact? So, yeah, talk us through how you guys look at sustainability and how you make your trips are as sustainable as possible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a few dimensions to sustainability that we focus on, and I should say that the expedition cruise segment overall is a very responsible part of the travel ecosystem. There's some great organizations like the International Association of Antarctic Tour Operators, the Arctic Expedition Cruise Operators Association, that create fantastic guidelines that a large majority of companies follow. What we take great pride in is not only operating within that framework like meeting that framework but pushing the limits of it towards more responsible and more pioneering sustainability initiatives. So some examples of that we were the first company to invest in low emissions technology in our fleet. So we have our two flagship vessels.
Speaker 3:Roald Amundsen and Fridtjof Nansen are amongst the lowest emissions environmental footprint vessels. They have battery packs that reduce their emissions by 20%. Now, an important distinction, because a lot of companies will say, oh, you know, 50% lower emissions. It's important to understand what that benchmark is. So for us it's 20% lower than what it would be if we didn't make that investment in a new ship. Some companies will say, oh, we're 50% lower, but that's 50% lower than a ship that was built in the 1970s or something like that. So that's where that transparency comes in, and I'd say the last part for us is just being really transparent and being really open about where we're at as a company, where we're at as an industry, putting our disclosures out there to be scrutinized by experts in these fields and identifying areas for improvement. We're not so proud that we claim to be perfect and we think that more companies should be open to having their operations scrutinized. And, yeah, ultimately that'll make us better and we'll make the experiences our guests have even richer.
Speaker 1:So obviously there's no question that sustainability is incredibly important for travelers to make a decision as to who they're going to take an expedition cruise. What are some of the other big factors that you do see? One of them that has stood out in our conversations about mainstream cruising is first-time cruisers, that people are not necessarily interested in cruising, and so the idea of being on a cruise ship they're concerned about, um, how they're going to feel on water, how they're going to be able to sleep, or they're going to feel seasick, is one of the things I've seen across all the cruise websites trying to address the concerns, and often they get reassured by the fact that they have large ships with 5 000 people and you're never going to feel, you're not going to feel a thing, um, and so it's going to be sleeping at just like sleeping at home, but clearly that's not going to be sleeping at just like sleeping at home, but clearly that's not going to be the case on an expedition trip. So what are some of the other things that you would need to factor into your messaging, especially to new travelers, and also, please, tell us as well? I'm also keen to understand about the number of people that choose expedition cruising. Are they crossing over from ocean or river cruise or are they new to cruise when they come to you and HX? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a bit of both. There's a bit of crossover from mainstream or conventional cruising and there's also people who are coming to cruising for the first time and using expedition cruising as the gateway for that. Historically it was a very niche market. There was a lot of people who would enter the segment and kind of stay in it and, do you know, five, 10 or more trips. But now we are seeing a lot of first time travelers come to us and what we need to do is cater to what they're looking for. Because when I started it was all about in the industry, it was all about pushing the limits. When I started, it was all about in the industry, it was all about pushing the limits. You know, getting out there at four o'clock in the morning and snow on your face and you know doing really extreme stuff and for the segment then in the kind of mid 2000s, that may have worked. But now people want to engage in adventure but also have certain comforts to that. It wants, you know, accessible adventure is a way to put it For us.
Speaker 3:We think that there's three important dimensions to choosing the right company to travel with. We call it the perfect balance. We think that what we offer. It creates harmony between these sections. The first one is adventure. It's kind of what I was talking about before, that like sense of being in an extreme environment. The second one is comfort, and you touched on it with the size of the ship, and there is an advantage to not being on a ship that has only 12 or 50 or 100 people. I mean, those ships do move around. I suffer from seasickness. I've learned to manage it over the years, but it does affect me, and there is a nice middle ground in size of ship and the bottom is sustainability, and so people can choose to prioritize one of those dimensions. You can go with the ultra luxury players and prioritize a certain degree of comfort.
Speaker 1:You can go with the very adventurous companies and prioritize that segment at the expense of the others, and we believe there's no other company that could exceed our offering when it comes to the, the peace of mind and sustainability approach well, the next question I'm going to ask you is as much for myself as it is for any of our listeners, but I've got a uh is about the question about seasickness, because one of the reasons that, uh, I haven't done as much cruising as for that, exactly that reason.
Speaker 1:And uh, one of the destinations that's been of interest for a significant amount of time is the antarctic.
Speaker 1:Um, and I have a good friend that I used to work with, the g adventures, now runs a company called miru adventures in seattle and they do a lot of um, chartering of ships and um, and he's, he's, I think it may be done about 20 or 30 trips, maybe not nearly as many as you and the idea of crossing the Drake Passage. I know sometimes there's good days and sometimes there's bad days, depending on the swells, but what do you do in that instance when there's people that clearly want to be able to see a region of the world and have that experience? So I guess someone like myself that wants to see the Galapagos or wants to go see the Antarctic, what are your recommendations? Like Dramamine, obviously, there's a few medications. You can take the pressure on your wrist with the wrist bracelets. But, yeah, what are some of the recommendations you have for people that want to take these trips but have that concern because clearly you've been able to navigate it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the insider's guide to seasickness remedies, I would say what's worked for me. What my observations have been is a lot of the pharmaceutical medication can actually have side effects that are almost as unpleasant as a seasickness itself, you know. Dryness of the mouth, dehydration, drowsiness, brain fog, those sorts of things which I don't find very pleasant. So I find the natural remedies like ginger staying hydrated, listening to your body, sometimes something as simple as you're feeling a little queasy, just lie down, become horizontal for half an hour and kind of regain your composure. Limiting your food intake, not eating a lot of rich foods, staying away from alcohol, all of those things you know. Getting fresh air, all those things can be just as, if not more, effective than, the pharmaceutical remedies.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, my wife's a pharmacist, so I think I'll have the benefit of both. But there's some good tips in there. I'll definitely stay off. Hasn't done expedition cruising. Clearly, some people are gonna be motivated by the destination they've always wanted to go to and that they know that HX can take them there. But if you were going to start recommending one or two itineraries to start off with, what would be your recommendations?
Speaker 3:You know we spoke about it earlier Greenland holds a special piece of my heart and it's a. It's a super accessible destination for anyone living in the Northern hemisphere and so it's kind of like adventure on your doorstep and that accessibility is only going to increase. Until recently, you had to sail from kind of Reykjavik to get to Greenland to to enjoy a lot of the itineraries. Now you can fly right into Nuuk. You're on the West Coast. It's there in the summer months that the seas are very calm. You get this high pressure system that rolls off the Greenland ice cap that keeps the weather largely stable, and you get a lot of the features that you get in a place like the Antarctic. You get massive icebergs, glaciers, and to me, the really special part of Greenland is the local culture. They're super welcoming. Greenlandic people are amongst the most hospitable and Inuit across the Arctic, amongst the most hospitable people I've ever met in my life, and that's one of the really moving parts about traveling to Greenland for me. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:And where is it you haven't gone yet that you're still planning to go? If there is a place that you haven't done, that's on your itinerary, or maybe there's one you're building.
Speaker 3:There's lots of places I haven't been, so I haven't spent much time in the South Pacific. I actually one of my first jobs in the travel industry was as a surf guide in Panama and I have spent time there, clearly before I moved into this segment. But I've never been to Costa Rica, and I think Costa Rica is a destination with a lot to offer and we have had some really meaningful voyages that are kind of in Central South Latin America and those are some areas. We just had a great excursion, actually impromptu a small island off the coast of Peru that we visited. It was the first time a ship had ever visited this island. This is a quintessential expedition cruise story. We had to adjust our itinerary, went to this island, were welcomed by the local community, had these fantastic excursions and it was just something that is engraved in people's memories now. Both travelers and even the guides on the HX team just had such an amazing experience. That's really cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm definitely keen. So after this conversation, I'm going to need to figure out when I'm going to do my first expedition crew. So I'll I'm going to definitely take your suggestions. But in terms of this overall industry, in this space, I'd really like to get your take on where you're seeing the growth and in terms of, like, new markets or obviously opening up new itineraries. But tell us a little bit about the growth trajectory in expedition, because I've certainly seen in this past year some pretty impressive stats for virtuoso with luxury cruising, that there's been an insatiable demand for small ship luxury expedition cruising and you mentioned obviously you're not focused on the luxury elements specifically, but, given there is now a cruise ship for everybody I think is coming to be the term but where do you see the expedition cruise industry in 2025? And where do you think it's headed?
Speaker 3:Yeah, as far as the expedition cruise industry in 2025, I would say some of the trends we're seeing are around more mindful travel, so we're really proud to see other companies following in our footsteps around sustainability, at least talking about it and moving towards it. For me, that's a really big activator for the future of our segment. I also think catering to people who are new to this type of travel like we were talking about before welcoming people of all skills, backgrounds, ages so making the inspiring kind of experiences that people can have accessible to a wide audience and that's what's fueling the growth. There was a big evolution in the expedition fleet that started in, say, 2015, 2016,. And ended during the pandemic, where there was a huge number of new ships that came online, and that was kind of the end of what I call the post-Soviet era, where, when I joined the industry, 80 plus percent of the ships were built in the Soviet Union and so they weren't very comfortable. They were good platforms for exploration and very seaworthy vessels, but not built for passenger comfort.
Speaker 3:So those are two dimensions I think are super important and I would say, just on the luxury spectrum, luxury isn't a focus for us, but I don't want to give anyone the impression that our ships are not well appointed. They're very, very comfortable, scandinavian design, fantastic dining options and the ships are just state of the art. But as far as the experience, we invest in really intimate, meaningful experiences that take place outdoors off the ship, and we use the ship as a kind of a window to the destination, rather than looking inwards, which is another strategy, where you have all the niceties and the fine china and elegant um appointments that are that are inside. We have, you know, windows and programs that help people get the most out of the destination and use the ship as a platform.
Speaker 1:Got it and I appreciate making that clarification too, because I think there is um.
Speaker 1:You know, the idea of expedition cruising is that it is more adventure, it's outdoor, and but there are those people that want the um, the luxury appointments as well. But, in terms of the growth that you're seeing, I know during the pandemic, a lot of hotels and cruise lines continue building out new ships, new hotels, so customers are now benefiting from the fact that that work continued, because, as you know as well as anybody um in this space, how long it takes to build a new ship and get it online, um and I I do want to ask you a bit about that as well, what your future plans are. But, um, there certainly is a lot more options, uh, for travelers today. So I'm assuming that you're seeing or expecting for 2025, 20, 2026, and 2027, continued growth on the expedition category, and I guess the question I'd ask you amongst that is that is that coming from the crossover customers? Is that coming from new customers? Or, to your point before, is that really a combination of both?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're totally right on the time it takes to build a ship. You're totally right on the time it takes to build a ship. Usually, companies will have to register a build slot with a shipyard up to five years in advance, and so we have visibility as an industry as to what those orders look like, and there's very little new hardware that's going to come online, so capacity is going to remain consistent. And you're also right that the demand is increasing. It's increasing in different areas, different destinations, you know, separate from one another. Some destinations are becoming more popular, others are kind of still in the emerging category, and so that's something that's really meaningful to consider. I think now is an amazing time for trade partners, for travelers, to get in. There's some fantastic deals to be had because, while we are seeing momentum, there's still some incentives to bring people into the industry and to get people on these voyages so they can share their experiences with others.
Speaker 1:And just on one of the trends, one of the developments I've heard from Virgin Voyages. For example, they were talking about the app that they've built to kind of address the pain point of organizing people to disembark the ship. So rather than calling out the numbers and having people organized in groups, they just follow the app to the destination they need to be to disembark. So I'd just be curious to know, in the expedition cruising, if there are similar developments with technology or various innovations that you are implementing within the HX in the operation side, since obviously you know, with your role being across all aspects of the expedition experience, is technology playing a more important role on the ship? Or, by all means, tell us some of the things that are standing out to you that are changing in terms of customer expectations, the on-ship experience, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean the expedition segment has a lot to learn from the mainstream cruise companies like the ones you mentioned. We are trying to be on the forefront of technological change within our segment. A lot of the innovation actually is around operational efficiency. So on our flagship vessels Roald Amundsen and Fridtjof Nansen, we have what's called the launch pad the expedition launch pad, which is a staging ground for people to transition in a very efficient way to getting off the ship. So, even though those ships in particular have slightly higher passenger capacity than the industry standard, which is around the 200 mark, we can get people off very quickly and there's a wide range of excursions that people can participate in. We also have actually the largest LED screen of any cruise ship in our segment, so we're very proud of that and our atriums, uh on board, uh, on board those vessels.
Speaker 3:We're one of few expedition companies that have an app, um, so people can make dining reservations, they can book excursions, they can see the, the programming that'll be on board. I mean, one of the things I've been blown away by in my recent voyages with hx and compared to other companies that I've worked with so I've worked with six or seven companies around the industry over the years. It's the quality of the onboard science and education program. There is never a dull moment. You're getting off the ship multiple times a day different pathways for that but you can go on the app and every minute of every day can be filled with excitement and learning if you're up for it, or you can relax and enjoy other kind of more comfortable amenities. So there is a lot of guest experience enabling technology on board and we're excited about some optimizations that you can see or hopefully we'll be able to share in the coming months and years.
Speaker 1:I appreciate sharing that. I guess the one other thing I wanted to ask you too, just in terms of the on-ship experience, is the types of customers that HX typically attracts. And I know with the adventure space sometimes it's more of a psychographic than a demographic, and so you know you're going to have people that are just passionate about going to see that part of the world and for the most part it is, you know, just open age. But is there specific customer profiles that HX targets? And then also, in that same thought, as far as where they're coming, where the travelers are, the main source markets, is it mainly English language source markets? Just to give everyone an idea of what they would expect on an HX trip?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, as far as the types of people that are attracted to HX, I think our messaging around science, learning and discovery resonates and stands out from the crowd. So you do get people who are genuinely curious and mindful travelers. Now I should also say that, in comparison to other travel segments, the expedition industry expedition, cruise industry in general attracts that profile more than going to Venice, let's say. But within that we find that people are very well-traveled, they're very conscientious travelers and those are the type of people that are drawn to our brand. We're a company with a proud Scandinavian heritage. So, unlike other companies that have national identities that are different, we're one of very few companies that has that kind of egalitarian sense of exploration, sense of camaraderie and the heritage that comes with that. So that's a big part.
Speaker 3:As far as source markets, traditionally we're a company that was founded in Norway with strong roots to that part of the world and our traditional source markets are predominantly European. So Germany, the Nordic countries, france, uk, and now we have a greater presence in North America. So that's kind of an opportunity for us. It's a market that we're seeing a lot of growth potential in and, compared to other companies, we don't have a large footprint in Asia. We do have a strong representation and a lot of travelers join us from Australia and New Zealand. But we do have a strong representation and a lot of travelers join us from Australia and New Zealand, but we did have some travelers who were joining us from China. We're seeing a little bit of that demand come back, but it's returning much more slower than perhaps other brands are seeing.
Speaker 1:And one other thing I wanted to ask you, since you are someone that has gone from strength to strength in this industry and, as you highlighted at the beginning, fell into it like Jesus, as a carpenter. You ended up in expedition cruising, but clearly you've gone from strength to strength. You've worked your way up, you've been in the industry nearly 20 years and you clearly deserve the position that you're in now, and you're very passionate about the space and have a great deal of expertise. So what advice would you have for someone out there listening to this that either wants to get into the cruise industry or expedition specifically? What have you sort of learned in your career that you would like to share as advice to those people out there looking to either get into this space or advance in their career? What has been some of your secrets to success?
Speaker 3:Yeah, secrets to success, I mean, I think, no matter what path you choose and maybe especially in the expedition cruise industry, but this exists elsewhere is you come to crossroads, you come to opportunities and I think, identifying them and following your heart. You know, I actually said no to the first time I was offered a position to go to Antarctica. I actually thought, you know what? I've got this great business. I'm building cabins and decks and docks in Northern Ontario, I've got a crew of 10 people, I'm having a ton of fun. And I said no and fortunately, a few months later I came to my senses and was able to take advantage of that opportunity that was still on the table.
Speaker 3:But those moments in life can really define your journey, and so I think for anyone, as they explore their path, to be mindful of opportunities as they come up. For me, I've also been a great recipient and benefactor of mentors, of people who've offered their wisdom to me and taken me under their wing, so to speak, and now that I'm in the position that I'm in, I'm looking to replicate that to give back to other generations who are coming up in this industry. So keep an eye out for people who are open to that Don't be too proud to take advice or to learn from others. I'm still learning. Every day I see an opportunity to speak to someone or to explore different knowledge. Actually, during my transition from the field to management teams, I realized that I knew essentially nothing about the language of business, and so I gripped my teeth and I studied accounting.
Speaker 2:I got an.
Speaker 3:MBA, and it opened my eyes to a whole new way of thinking. So combining those kind of informal opportunities with potential formal education pathways if and when you can can be really helpful as well.
Speaker 1:That's great. I appreciate you sharing those suggestions and advice for others so that they can follow in your footsteps. I'm sure your career is going to continue to develop and grow, and I really appreciate making the time for this conversation. I want to make sure that for those people who have listened to this and are just getting a chance to meet you for the first time and also get to know a bit about Herdegarden Obviously we have Gebhardt on this episode as well, the CEO, so it's a perfect combination to have you both as part of this discussion to wrap their head around expedition cruising as we look at ocean and expedition, and so I'd love for you to make sure that everyone can find out more information about HX or to be able to connect with you directly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so our website's wwwtravelhxcom. It's a new and improved website, which is a really nice transformation as we create our own identity as a brand. For me personally, feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. I do have a profile there and I do check the messages from time to time, so that's a great place to start. And, yeah, we're so lucky to have such a visionary leader as Gebhard at the helm of this great business, and I enjoy working with him immensely. Him and I are actually going to Greenland together a month from now. Greenland was the first place he went to when he joined HX and he'll be going back not too long after, so I think he's actually been. This will be his third time in his early tenure with the company, which is super exciting.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, I'm thrilled for you both and I look forward to seeing some of the pictures and photos from that experience. So I'll be checking out the social channels for those ones as well, but it's been a real pleasure to meet you, alex. I'm thrilled that we had this opportunity and I wish you and the team continued success. I look forward to seeing you on board a ship at some point in 2025. Thanks again for joining us. Thank you, dan.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to our deep dive into ocean cruises in this final episode of season four on this topic, with our friends from Herdegurt and Expeditions, both Gebhardt and Alex. I certainly really enjoyed the conversation with both of them. I learned a lot. I hope you did as well, and we'll look forward to continuing these conversations into season five. And we'll look forward to continuing these conversations into season five.
Speaker 1:Don't forget, we do post clips and highlights of all of our episodes on our social channels, which are LinkedIn, youtube and Instagram, so make sure you check those out. Follow us there. And then we also, of course, have a monthly newsletter that we send out, so make sure you're registered at TravelTrendsPodcastcom to receive a monthly roundup of all of our podcast episodes and updates on our upcoming travels for the month ahead. And then I just wanted to say one final thank you to our friends at Jeb Commerce for sponsoring this series. We greatly appreciate your partnership.
Speaker 1:We hope that many of the listeners here reached out to you and looking to work with you in some way on their affiliate program optimization, because we know that you can definitely help them. For those of you who are interested in learning more, make sure you check out Jeb Commerce that's jebcommercecom slash travel trends for more information. Thanks again for everyone for listening to this series. We look forward to picking up our conversation on OTAs in the next couple of episodes. Focus both on pricelinecom and bookingcom, so look for those coming next. Until next time, safe travels.
