Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
How Travel Brands Can Leverage TikTok Influencers with Hannah Bennett, Head of Travel, TikTok
Discover how TikTok is transforming the way we plan, book, and experience travel in this episode with Hannah Bennett, Head of Travel at TikTok. With over 2.14 billion users globally, TikTok is now a powerhouse for travel brands and creators alike, connecting audiences through authentic, inspiring content.
Hannah shares her unique insights, from the platform's game-changing algorithm to the rise of trends like slow travel and "destination dupes." Learn how TikTok plays a role in every stage of the travel cycle—sparking wanderlust, helping with trip planning, and even boosting ROI for travel brands.
We’ll also explore the TikTok Creator Marketplace, practical ROI measurement tips, and inspiring success stories of brands thriving with authentic storytelling. Whether you're a travel brand or a creator, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you redefine your travel marketing strategy.
👉 Listen to How Travel Brands Can Leverage TikTok Influencers Now
🔥 Season 5 Title Sponsors: TravelAI, Stay22, Propellic, Flight Centre, Collette, Flywire, Traveltek and Protect Group.
Season 5 Launched Jan 15th. New Episodes Every Weds! Check out our first 4 Seasons.
https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/
five plus years ago, influencer content on social media was gorgeous people on gorgeous beaches. It was edited photographs, normally right. But what TikTok has done is with that element of short form video being full screen. I guess, for anyone who isn't on the platform, everything is video, everything is full screen, it's sound on, it's all about storytelling.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends Season 5. This is your host, dan Christian. I hope you're enjoying our new introduction. This is actually going to be our very first deep dive of 2025 and I'm really excited to bring this to you because it was actually a theme that we wanted to address in Season 4, but we had so much content then and we wanted to kick off this series with a number of really fascinating conversations around the role of influencers in travel. And today, to get things started, we're going to have the head of travel from TikTok joining us, hannah Bennett, which couldn't be more timely and relevant given everything that's been happening in the US recently, and we'll come back to that in a moment.
Speaker 2:But I'm really excited to start this series, which is sponsored by our good friends over at Flytographer, who connect travelers with handpicked, professional, local photographers in more than 350 destinations around the world to create these memorable, hassle-free photo shoots. They've been doing it since 2013. Nicole Smith, who is the founder and CEO, has been on our Travel Trends show on our Women in Travel. She's a remarkable entrepreneur and this concept started with realizing that she wasn't in any of her family photos and overwhelmingly most of the customers that choose Flytographer are women and they want to make sure that they are part of their family vacation photos. So it's a really fascinating story. Sure that they are part of their family vacation photos? So it's a really fascinating story. As part of their offer to our listeners, they're giving away a free photo shoot and a 10% discount for all of our listeners, whether they're travelers or travel advisors. You just have to use the discount code TRAVELTRENDS. But you can check out more details about the contest so you can enter at flytographercom slash travel dash trends. That's flytographercom slash travel dash trends. We will be sure to revisit those details at the end of the show, and we are also going to have a bonus conversation with the CEO of Stay22, which empowers travel creators to earn revenue through affiliate links, and they literally doubled their business in the past year. Their gross revenue sits now at about $500 million at the end of 2024, and they keep going from strength to strength, and we thought that their business concept couldn't be more relevant to this series, so I wanted to include a short interview with Andrew, so look out for that bonus at the end of the episode.
Speaker 2:Now let's turn our attention to TikTok and get ready to introduce Hannah Bennett by giving some context to why we are focusing on TikTok and their important role within travel influencers and you'll hear in a moment how Hannah's background is in the media space and so I really wanted to understand the role that TikTok plays in connecting creators to travel brands and to really understand the impact that they're having, but also give practical, actionable insights and recommendations for all of our listeners that are either working with travel brands or influencers looking to partner with travel brands. And so let's take the stats for a moment and look at just how massive a platform TikTok is. They have about 2.14 billion users globally and nearly 1.7 billion of them are active every day and for more than an hour on average. Interestingly, the second largest market after Indonesia is the US, with about 120 million users, and they actually generated more than $18 billion in revenue in 2024. And about $3 to $4 billion of that revenue came from in-app purchases, which also tells you where the platform is headed and why that's so important for travel, with the idea that people are not only getting the inspiration, but they're now using it as a source of booking. And, interestingly, based on TikTok's own data insights, their app has seen a more than 410% increase in travel content views since 2021. So, in the last three years, and more than 70% of the TikTok audience say that they are likely to book a holiday based on recommendations they've seen on the platform and some research that was done by Adobe that I found really interesting is that more than 60% of Gen Z Americans have used TikTok as a search engine, entering search phrases like things to do in Paris, which brings up, obviously, an endless stream of videos ranked by popularity. But the brilliance of it is the algorithm which adapts to your interests each time you scroll. Which adapts to your interests each time you scroll, but, as it relates to travel, that algorithm is also based on geolocation, so it's going to serve you up destination-based content as you move. So, for many reasons, we were keen to bring this conversation with TikTok to the forefront of our influencer series, especially given the impact of short form video. Over the last few years, this has actually been one of the most important tactics for digital marketers and continues to be in 2025 and beyond, and this was a concept that really was pioneered by TikTok and emulated by YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels, and so I wanted to make sure that we highlighted how these travel creators are creating this content and working with travel brands, and Hannah provides a number of valuable links that I'll include at the end of this episode to access the creator marketplace or the creator exchange and to learn more about TikTok for business. And don't forget that we post highlights and clips of all these conversations on all our social channels, which includes TikTok now as well, so be sure to check out at Travel Trends Podcast on TikTok on YouTube, on LinkedIn and Instagram. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2:Attention travelers and travel advisors, are you looking to elevate your travel experience beyond the ordinary? Then you have to say hello to our good friends at Colette, where guided travel gets a premium upgrade. For over a hundred years, colette has been crafting expertly guided tours that go beyond the stereotypes. With over 170 tours across all seven continents, colette offers something for every type of traveler, from culturally immersive small group journeys to single city stays and even river cruises. And with their industry-leading travel protection plan, you can cancel for any reason up to 24 hours before departure. Plus, when you book air with Colette, they even offer a private chauffeur service to and from the airport. Discover why travelers love Colette and why guided travel is thriving. Join the evolution of travel today at GoColettecom. Your next adventure awaits that's GoColettecom. Your next adventure awaits that's gocollettecom. Attention, travel operators, destination management companies and accommodation providers.
Speaker 2:Managing payments doesn't have to be a source of stress. Meet Flywire, the modern payments platform built specifically for the unique needs of the travel industry. With Flywire, you can collect payments from travelers worldwide with ease, enjoy faster payouts in your preferred currency, reduce payment fees and offer your guests flexible localized payment options they're familiar with. Not only does Flywire simplify your operations, but it also helps elevate your guest experience and boost your bottom line. That means you can stop worrying about payments and focus on what you do best creating unforgettable travel experiences. Discover how Flywire can help your business save time, save money and deliver truly seamless transactions. Visit flywirecom slash travel trends to learn more. That's flywirecom slash travel trends. And now back to the show. Now let me introduce Hannah Bennett, the head of travel for TikTok, based over in the UK. Hannah, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Dan. It's a real pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, this series on influencers and travel is really important for us to kick off season five and I think I would love to start just to give everyone a bit of background about TikTok and your involvement in travel, and so I think most people understand the TikTok platform, but give us a little bit of overview of how TikTok decided to get specifically into the travel space.
Speaker 1:So I work here in the London office for TikTok and I lead our travel team. So essentially I'm on the commercial side of the business. I support travel brands, mostly based out of the UK, on their sort of TikTok journey, so making sure that they're confident in terms of how they're showing up and, I guess, in terms of why do we have a team dedicated to travel? Because I guess travel and TikTok go so closely together on the platform. I think, of all the industries we support at TikTok, I think travel is the one where the content just sort of speaks for itself really, in that everything is full screen, it's sound on, you have the ability to, you know, literally transport someone to a travel destination, which is why I think the category of content on TikTok is naturally, you know, so strong in my non-biased opinion, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah. Well, what's interesting to me is you've been at TikTok for five years, and so our show, of course, was about the pandemic and how traveler behavior changed post-pandemic, and you've obviously been through that entire journey at TikTok itself and I guess, maybe just for a bit of background on yourself, tell us a little bit of how you got into this space and why you specifically took on this role at tiktok. Obviously it's a fast-growing company and then you clearly must have a passion for travel as well yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:So I can't believe it's actually coming up for five years. That's um a bit crazy. But, as you said, I've definitely seen, it all started at the beginning of 2020 when we were sort of lockdown one really. So the travel content on the platform. We had a lot of travel content brands obviously maybe weren't as keen to get on board. So I actually looked after quite a few industries when I joined TikTok and now we've been able you know, which is great to kind of break out travel.
Speaker 1:Before being here in London working for TikTok, I was actually in the US, so I was working in New York for nearly five years as well. A couple of different programmatic platforms. So I've kind of I guess moved. So when I was back, so when I started my career gosh, god knows how long ago I was in TV advertising, so always advertising, but kind of I guess progressed as we sort of progressed in terms of user behavior. I worked in television advertising and then I moved to digital and then I moved to sort of programmatic and now obviously TikTok sort of entertainment social platform.
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously, short form video has become the main driver today of what people are searching for on social channels in TikTok. Pioneering this space certainly led to YouTube shorts and Instagram reels and lots of other social channels to emulate the TikTok experience. And I have to say, my kids are totally obsessed with TikTok. I obviously I'm on TikTok as well. We have one now for our Travel Trends podcast channel and I know how important it is to travel. But I'd like to understand how, when you think of verticals for TikTok, how important the travel vertical is, given that you've created this team specifically for travel. And then I've got so many questions about how travel brands can leverage TikTok, which I know my audience, our audience, really wants to get into. But yeah, just tell us a little bit more about, if you wouldn't mind, about how you decided to segment travel. Was it just simply because there are so many people sharing travel experiences? Is it because of the commercial viability of the number of companies that would be looking to then advertise and partner with you?
Speaker 1:I think the natural affinity really helps.
Speaker 1:I think when we were in our infancy in 2020, it was kind of what were people sharing right and more so than ever, which was crazy because we were all locked down.
Speaker 1:People wanted to travel and they wanted to share their travel experiences and, as that grew through, being able to travel again and then not, and I think, now more than ever, people value, you know, the ability, I guess, the luxury that we all have to travel. However, you know, we want to do it, whoever we want to do it with or for whatever reasons we're doing it. I mean, I think, more so than ever versus like 2019, before any of the pandemic happened it's so important for people to be able to kind of go and experience other cultures and to actually have that freedom to travel, and I guess that went hand in hand with the growth of travel on the platform and, of course, it's a fantastic opportunity for me always working with brands, being able to, you know, support them and help them sort of show up in, I guess, the right sort of TikTok first way on the platform. So it all was, I guess, a combination of all those different factors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. Well, let's talk about what we, how we actually define influencers. Clearly, this, that's the focus of this series, and part of the reason that we're kicking off with TikTok is that when we think about influencers today, in 2025, the most common channel that people think of is TikTok, and we see companies like Kluk who've partnered with TikTok to get really as close as possible to the source of inspiration to get someone to book one of their trips, and so I want to talk about how you see social commerce in 2025 from TikTok's perspective. But tell us, I guess, in the last couple of years, how TikTok has been able to carve out this kind of niche and travel compared to some of the other platforms. What is it about TikTok and the platform itself? Is it some of the specific features that you have? That is why influencers gravitated to it? Is it the live streams? What is it about the TikTok platform that seems to work so well for influencers?
Speaker 1:I think we have all those sort of, you know, fun features that you mentioned live streams but I think it's really like going back to the basics of what TikTok is, like. You mentioned it before. We are, we talk about ourselves being an entertainment platform, which we definitely are, but essentially we are a short form video platform, and I think that is so key when it comes to travel because, and especially with influencer content, right A few years ago, when we thought about social, or even you know, five plus years ago, influencer content on social media was gorgeous people on gorgeous beaches, it was edited photographs, normally right. But what TikTok has done is with that element of short form video being full screen. I guess, for anyone who isn't on the platform, everything is video, everything is full screen, it's sound on, it's all about storytelling and it's the ability for we call them creators and I can talk about that a little bit more rather than influencers, but it's that, you know to transport the watcher, the user on TikTok to that destination.
Speaker 1:They can go on that, that aeroplane with you, they can go to the airport, they can see why you're traveling, but it's not just seeing it, it's also kind of experiencing it, because it is that video element, and I think now, like you said, a lot of other platforms offer that video element, but TikTok really sort of drove that short form video in terms of sharing, and I think what TikTok creators have done is we've seen that shift from influencers, which, and again like back to the I know, I know this series is all about influencers, but just, I guess, a nuance at TikTok it's all very much about creators, because they are creating TikTok, like the platform is the creator content and you don't have to be a celebrity influencer or have X number of million followers to be a creator on the platform. As long as you're, you know, producing content for TikTok. On TikTok, you are a creator, whatever sort of community or industry you're tapping into, and I think that's kind of what TikTok has really sort of led the way on.
Speaker 2:We'll be right back. Did you know that over 20% of people who purchase a ticket will upgrade to a refundable option when given the choice? By offering Refund Protect, you make it easy for your customers to protect their ticket purchase against emergency circumstances like illness, injury, accidents and more. Whether you're an airline, hotel group, tour operator, ticketing platform, ota or transport solution, when you partner with Protect Group, your customers get peace of mind and you generate extra revenue. With a Trustpilot score of 4.8 stars and over 31,000 reviews, they treat your customers as their own, earning the highest customer ratings in the industry. To find out more, check out Protect Group at protectgroup. That's protectgroup.
Speaker 2:Hey, travelers, are you looking to book your next adventure? Then you have to meet our good friends at Flight Center, the travel-obsessed experts ready to make your next dream trip a reality. For over 40 years, they've been opening up the world to travelers from the UK, australia, new Zealand and now Flight Center Canada is celebrating an incredible milestone 30 years of helping Canadians explore the globe. From their first store in Vancouver in 1995 to becoming the official travel agency partner of the Toronto Raptors this year, they've been at the forefront of delivering travel experiences At Flight Center. Travel is more than a passion. It's their expertise from flights and accommodations to cruises and tours, and even business travel. They handle it all, whether it's crafting a tailor-made trip or tackling group bookings. They've got you covered, plus with exclusive perks like their new bundle, and save five hundred dollars on tour and cruise packages. There's never been a better time to plan your getaway From the smallest getaways to the biggest bucket list trips, your travel goals are just a call or a click away. Visit flightcenterca slash travel trends to explore the latest deals, learn about emerging travel trends and start planning your next trip.
Speaker 2:In today's fast-paced travel industry, businesses face constant challenges keeping up with new technologies, meeting ever-evolving customer expectations and promoting products effectively. The real struggle Managing it all in-house. That's where TravelTech steps in to transform your business. With over 25 years of experience, traveltech is one of the most trusted names in travel technology, offering tailored solutions to fit your unique needs. They make it easy to create seamless, bookable websites, manage and promote products and automate everyday tasks, giving your team more time to focus on what matters most your customers. Plus Travel Tech is the go-to name in cruise technology, with cutting-edge solutions for tour operators as well.
Speaker 2:Plus Travel Tech has just launched Tech Talk, a new podcast for travel professionals by travel professionals. Explore the stories behind the biggest innovations in travel. Visit traveltechcom slash traveltrends or tune into Tech Talk on Spotify and Apple. That's traveltechcom slash traveltrends and Tech Talk on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And now back to the show. I would love to hear from you, if you wouldn't mind even pointing out, a few examples of travel creators on the TikTok platform that are you know. I think a lot of people are familiar with some of the not a Mr Beast of travel. There is many Mr Beasts of travel. So tell us some great examples of TikTok travel creators and how and why you think they've become so trusted and revered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I guess you said it right the fact that there isn't this one big TikTok travel creator. And I think that's because people travel for so many different reasons, right? You traveling for, you know, a friend's boys weekend away, or with your family you said your kids um, you might be doing a business trip or you might be, you know, having a little solo break somewhere. Like, people are traveling and everyone is traveling for different things all the time as well. I think we wear so many different hats when it comes to travel as well, and I think that's what's so great about TikTok is that there is this creator for everyone and everyone's different hat that they're wearing at that time. So I think an example I used recently was, I guess, both ends of the spectrum in terms of the luxury end of travel versus budget travel. So I think he's UK based um hand luggage only I'm not sort of.
Speaker 1:You've seen his content. It's you're nodding, it's great, some really great content. He documents his and his partner's trips around the world, mostly very high-end trips which are obviously amazing, and he's partnered with loads of fantastic high-end brands, I think most recently like upper class with Virgin Atlantic. He went to had a lovely set of raffles recently. So I think, in terms of making that authentic content, that's his tone of voice, that's how he would travel anyway. So when he talks to his audience who you know have the budget to also take those trips it feels natural, it feels authentic that he's partnering with those brands.
Speaker 1:And then at the other end of the scale, there's two fantastic creators they're called live the dash who are very much how to travel on a you know shoestring budget, like almost like a challenge in a way of you know how to get the most from your money when you go away. And I think, just showing those two extremes, they're talking to different audiences in that own way and they're working with you know the brands, and the brands that kind of make sense for them and that's why myself, I guess as a user on TikTok, I guess that content is authentic and it is trusted because it's in their tone of voice. So when I'm watching the content, it makes sense that they're partnering with the brands that they're partnering with and that's obviously just ends of sort of the budgeting scale. But I mean there's so many different fantastic creators on the platform.
Speaker 2:That's great, and when we're thinking about the demographics, I think one of the things that's sort of a misnomer with TikTok is it's just for the younger generation, and that's certainly, from my understanding, is not the case. Younger generation, and that's certainly from my understanding, is not the case, and I'd love for you to be able to just highlight some of the demographics of TikTok so that anyone listening to this can kind of wrap their head around the fact that their travel brand needs to be in this space, not just because it is a youth dominated platform. So yeah, tell us a little bit about the demographics, if you wouldn't mind. On TikTok itself and then how that relates to the travel creators Is it the case that you do? Have you mentioned luxury, but do you have a variety of different age groups on TikTok for travel creators?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I get there's still this kind of myth that TikTok is for a younger audience. I think the speed at which we've grown across the last five years really is. I guess for those people who aren't on the platform it I understand that many people maybe think that we're still for that younger generation that were those early adopters back in sort of 2019 2020. But the we've come so far. We have over a billion people in the TikTok community now, so that's 170 million in the US, that's over 150 million in Europe. Our average age in the UK is 30 years old. So we've continued to grow and diversify and I think the fact that now the diversity of the audience goes hand in hand with the content as well I think we wouldn't have this audience if the content wasn't there, and vice versa. So they've kind of grown hand in hand together so that there is you know, there's still people who want a budget trip, but there's also people who have the budget to pay more premium prices when they travel.
Speaker 2:Very interesting. And then when we look at the creators that are having success on the platform, I'd be really keen to know you just mentioned a few really excellent examples and highlighted authenticity being one driver, and that clearly, obviously, people do want to see people traveling around the world and having these incredible stays at, like the raffles as you just described. But walk us through for someone who's looking to get going on the platform a travel brand or a travel marketer some of the steps that you would recommend them to take, both for their brand and if they want to start working with influencers.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. So I would say, like, super basic, download the app, spend some time on the platform, start engaging with the travel content that's on there, both from creators and from brands, and start to get an understanding of what appeals to you as an individual and what you think would be relevant for your brand as well. Like, what communities do you want to sort of tap into? For example, so TUI, a European brand over here. They run such a range of content. They created some really funny like airport dads, tiktoks, everyone probably familiar with the idea of that. You know the sensible one in the family, often the dad super planned out, ready to go at the airport three hours early, etc. A real sort of travel theme on the platform. Tui tapped into that. But then on the other end, they're working with budget creators to show people on TikTok how to, you know, get the most for their money from their platform. So, as a brand who's new, just get like, have a look at these brands and getting understanding of you know they're not just creating travel influencer content, it's about different communities that they're talking to as well. I think that would be sort of the first thing to do and then on the other side, like that's the thing, right, you want to show up in the right, authentic way. So one way to do that I think a key way to do that is start to think about creators, right, what creators make sense for you.
Speaker 1:And we have a fantastic platform called the TikTok creator marketplace, free to access. I, I would you know, sign up, log in and this is where you can see all those TikTok creators. But you can dive into their stats and their followings. So I guess, if you're focused on the US market, or if you're focused on the UK or Spain, you can look at the creators who have the most traction there. You can dive into their age group in terms of following, in terms of engagement Are you looking for a younger audience or are you looking for an older audience? What creators kind of align with your brand messaging and your brand values? You can do all of that on the creator marketplace. So hopefully, you've got an idea of the creators that resonate to you when you're on the app, when you're on TikTok. But you can dive into their stats much more in that creator marketplace. You can send out briefs, for example. You can shortlist creators. You can start that conversation there. You don't have to finish it on the platform. You know you can take it off the platform, but it's a great resource to, I guess, just get a bit more insight onto those creators. Yes, they've created a fantastic ad with Virgin Atlantic or whatever it is, but let's have a, you know, a deeper look at their, their following, what engagement they're getting and, you know, start to sort of short lift list creators in that way.
Speaker 1:And then back to the idea of you know, when we're talking about creators, we're not talking. You know you have to have these massive celebrities. Bookingcom, I know, like massive OTA, of course, have a fantastic TikTok account. So, as a new brand, you know, however big you are, take a look at that and hopefully that gives you an idea of what we mean by creator, because, yes, they work with some fantastic celebrities. Not everyone will have the budget to work with Martha Stewart, but they also work with, you know, tiktok specific creators and you'll see a load of their content with people that you probably won't know, because that's their social team and their creators too. They're creating fantastic content for the brand continuously and it's not all these sort of massive influences that you might think from a brand, you know, from such a massive global brand like booking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really interesting and super helpful, I think, even acknowledging the fact that there is a platform for travel brands to be able to connect with creators. And so tell us a little bit more about how that works and what the costs are, because I'm sure that's the next thing that's going through the minds of our listeners is like, well, how do I budget for this, or what type of engagement should I undertake?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that is a tough one. Like TikTok, don't take a fee for you accessing that platform, but you will, of course, be paying the creators for the content they're creating. And again it's like how long is a piece of string right If, if there's a huge creator with a massive following, maybe you know sort of celebrity level, you're going to be paying a lot more for that piece of content than a smaller creator who's sort of, you know, maybe just starting out on their journey, or maybe they do it as a bit of a, you know, a sideline. It's not their sort of main focus. They're creating these fantastic TikTok videos, but they also have a nine to five job and I think there is definitely a creator and a sort of category for it for everyone.
Speaker 1:You don't have to be sort of investing massive budgets, um, to get some really fantastic content, um. So yeah, it's a really hard one to answer because it also depends on how many videos do you want, what rights do you want to the video, where is it being posted, etc. So cetera. So, yeah, tough one to answer, but definitely one like don't feel like you're budgeted out of the creator marketplace.
Speaker 2:In terms of initial engagement with content creators, is it about giving away a free trip? I know a number of influencers do work with travel brands. They go on trips and have this amazing experience. How much of what you see with creators working with travel brands is traveling incentives versus paid activity? Because exactly what you just described is clearly there's some high profile influencers out there content creators that can charge a real premium and that there are brands working with them already, and so some of the smaller businesses small to medium sized businesses might be listening to this or they might be overwhelmed about that idea. Medium-sized business that might be listening to this or they might be overwhelmed about that idea. But I guess, as far as some simple steps to start engaging influencers would be encouraging them to travel and giving them free travel the best place to start. What would be your recommendation there? I've certainly heard some travel brands that are always concerned. They're constantly getting hit up for free travel as well. So what would be some recommendations from you, what you've seen from successful engagements?
Speaker 1:I'd say, as a brand, have that conversation with the creator. There's no harm in sort of having that back and forth and that discussion. I can't speak for sort of individual creators in terms of, oh, they take a trip versus being paid. The majority of brands that we work with will pay the creator for the content we do also have. I don't know if you're familiar not to throw more acronyms out there but TTCX, the TikTok Creative Exchange, where, for brands who have media budget again, this is obviously specific for brands with maybe a slightly larger media budget If they're putting budget behind creatives, tiktok is able to actually fund the creation of those assets, whether it's creator-led or not. So there's various packages. I guess if you're able to invest a little bit more behind advertising, that TikTok can also support with funding the creators as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, now that's fascinating, really interesting, I guess. The one other thing I want to ask on this topic that most marketers are thinking about is their ROI on their investment.
Speaker 2:What is their return on investment and how do they make sure that they are, you know, if they're investing in tech talk that they're seeing a return in actual bookings, and I think we both know that and you're going to explain to me, I'm sure, how that actually translates because certainly there's great brand awareness and it's a perfect opportunity to really showcase the experience of your travel, which is why video is so powerful, you know, and beyond, search, beyond just images, to be able to have a short destination video that really highlights the experience. Are getting more savvy about their engagement with TikTok and trying to measure the ROI. What are, if you wouldn't mind, like some of the tools you have in place to be able to track booking activity, and what are some of the metrics that travel brands should be looking at to measure their success of their TikTok campaigns?
Speaker 1:So, yes, I think I guess. So, taking a sort of step back, we ran some research with Focusrite. We partnered with Focusrite towards the end of last year on some research around how people are now booking their travel and it found that TikTok travelers people who are coming to TikTok as sort of one aspect of planning their trip 42% of them went to a destination or made a travel-related purchase as a direct result of content that they've seen on TikTok. So we're seeing results. But I get it right, as an individual brand, you want to see the ROI for your brand and that's where our ads manager so our ads manager platform, ttam will come into play. Play, if a brand is running paid advertising, they will be able to track their ROI via that. However, they're defining that, providing there's a pixel or some sort of tracking in place to get an for the platform to get an understanding of what bookings or what signals are being triggered on the brand's website or the brand's app, we're able to track that and optimize to it and report back to the brand.
Speaker 1:I guess the caveat is that the brand needs to be running sort of paid advertising to support any sort of organic traction they're getting on the platform and that's sort of those lower funnel signals. However, when you said, what should brands be looking at, I think again that's like a huge question in terms of what does the brand you know? What is the objective for TikTok? Do they just want to see bookings? And I think again like sort of taking a step back the creative that they're producing for TikTok, whether that's creator led or whether that's sort of brand led, that needs to be sort of well, that needs to be focused on those objectives as well. I think making sure the creative is relevant to the objective is key and then, obviously, measuring that with paid advertising is where the brand will be able to achieve that ROI.
Speaker 2:The step four that I've seen with some companies, and this is clearly where travel brands are having so much success on the platform that they're trying to do more and get closer to that source of inspiration to booking. And I guess one of the best examples I've seen in the last six months is Klook, k-l-o-o-k for our North American audience. I mean, they're a global OTA focused on experiences, but they're based out of Hong Kong and they focused on Asia, and my understanding is they launched this inspiration to action campaign on TikTok in mainly the South Asian markets, in Japan, so that travelers can book experiences directly through the app. If you wouldn't mind, tell us a little bit more how this is all coming about and some of those larger brands like a booking, of course, how they are actually making their offerings bookable directly through TikTok.
Speaker 1:So at the moment, in terms of booking an actual holiday flight, hotel, etc. That has to happen on the brand's website or on the brand's app. It's something we can track and it's something we can optimize to, and this year we're actually in testing. At the moment we have a new product coming out called Catalog Ads for Travel or Travel Ads, and that's our first product that's built on a travel intent model. So, as I said, it's in testing at the moment. Hopefully later in the quarter it will be available for all brands. So that's where they can start to pull through a catalog. So we're optimizing to the right user at the right time, showing them the right messaging. However, the booking itself will still happen on the brand's website, and I guess I don't know enough about what they're testing with Kluke. So it's something I probably have to come back to you on, though I don't want to misspeak. My understanding is that, for the foreseeable, the booking itself will take place on a brand's website.
Speaker 2:Cool. No, that's helpful, but just to go to speak about more in general terms for travel brands and just to finish off the, I guess, the tracking and ROI what are the tools that TikTok has to be able to track conversions from influencer content? So just help us understand that and close that loop. And then I've got lots of other questions about the travel trends we're seeing for 2025. But yeah, if you wouldn't mind just finishing off that point for our audience that is fixated on how do I track this activity?
Speaker 1:It really depends on how you're working with the creator. So if the creator is just posting on their profile, they'll be able to access their own analytics in the app which they can share with the brand. If the brand is working with creators and they're using that creator content on their own profile for example, if it's just organically like they're not putting paid sort of boosting budget behind it, again, they will be able to access those analytics in the app. If they've leveraged the creator marketplace that I mentioned, they will be able to access those analytics in the app. If they've leveraged the Creator Marketplace that I mentioned, they'll also be able to tap into specific analytics in there too In terms of tracking, bookings and revenue return.
Speaker 1:That's where you'll need either a pixel on your website or a server-to to server integration with either your website or your app and TikTok, which is where we would be able to. You would be able to track it in our ads manager. So that's where you'd need to be running paid like media spend behind that creator content. So there's so many different ways. It just kind of depends on how you're working with the creator and where that's hosted and if you're running that organically or if you're running that paid.
Speaker 2:Got it. So the main thing I think everyone to know is it is possible. It is more trackable and measurable than ever, which is important. But let's go back and talk more broadly, because I do love seeing the amazing travel content that is on TikTok, and so I'm really keen to know from your perspective what some of the main trends that you're seeing or expect to see in 2025 around travel.
Speaker 1:So many different trends. I'd say something that we talk about quite a lot at TikTok and we've seen really grow in the last, I guess, year, 18 months, is the idea of um discovering that sort of lesser known destination. Where can you go? That isn't, that is a bit less discovered, that maybe you haven't been before or your friends and family haven't been before, and people are coming to tiktok to find those places and we call it and I say we call it. I think a lot of people call it this but the the destination dupe. So you know a lot of people have have been to Greece, for example, or Spain, but where can we go? That's, you know, a little bit different. That's maybe less crowded, maybe less warm um in the summer, and also you know that offers that more cultural experience, and I think that's a conversation that's really sort of taken off on TikTok.
Speaker 1:I've seen some content recently about you know going to Bosnia rather than Croatia, for example. I've seen some content recently about you know going to Bosnia rather than Croatia, for example. I've seen some content around like a romantic break to Bruges rather than Paris or Ljubljana Slovenia is huge rather than maybe Venice. So somewhere that is a little bit more off the beaten track that people are really discovering on TikTok. I think we'll see that. We'll continue to see that conversation grow.
Speaker 1:And I guess, in the same vein as that, the concept of slow travel, so taking just a little bit more time, even if you can't go away for you know, two weeks, even if it's just sort of like a long weekend but rather than going and sort of searching for the top five things to do and sort of rushing around and ticking them off the list, the idea of going somewhere and experiencing it a bit more like a local. I think that is quite similar to the idea of that sort of destination dupe. It's finding that sort of more cultural element to travel that we might have sort of lost a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. The destination dupe is definitely a big trend, for sure, and obviously it makes sense that that's happening on the TikTok platform as people are looking for emerging destinations or there's a kind of a shift in the destinations to exactly the point you just described, which also highlights to our audience that more and more travelers are using TikTok as a source of not only inspiration but also as a form of search. They're looking to figure out where they're going to go next and they're searching on the TikTok platform. That's one of the big shifts that we've seen is that social is the new SEO and that travelers whether it be Instagram for hotels, that they are starting to search for places they want to go on social channels. So how does that work from a a TikTok point of view?
Speaker 2:So, if you are a traveler, this is what I'm keen to know where TikTok fits into the overall travel cycle, because obviously you're very familiar with the source of inspiration, research, booking. You're traveling in your home, right? So, like the kind of like five different phases, where do you see TikTok? Is it in all of those phases, or what are the areas that it dominates most? Because the one thing I realized we haven't spoken about yet is the in-destination experience for a traveler.
Speaker 2:Obviously, we're talking about content creators and content creators kicking off this process of inspiring people to take trips, but of course, we have travelers as well that are in-destination traveling with these brands showcasing the amazing experience they have. So yeah, I guess, in terms of the travel cycle, where do you see TikTok being the most influential? And then I would love to hear a bit more about how you think travel brands can leverage any traveler not just a content creator, but really anyone who's going to go on a trip to say, hey, if you wouldn't mind record a video for us or post it on TikTok, because a lot more people are going to see that. So yeah, walk us through that if you wouldn't mind record a video for us or post it on TikTok, because a lot more people are going to see that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, walk us through that if you wouldn't mind. Yes, for sure, Of course. Of course, at TikTok, we think you know we're relevant at all stages of the travel journey and I think you called it out right it was something I was almost going to mention in the last bit, but I realized I was chatting for a bit the fact that user behavior has changed, right? So people would always come to TikTok for a discovery engine, people would come for that passive discovery. So people spent a lot of time on what we call the For you feed. So people For you page, people just watching the content that got served to them, scrolling through, engaging, et cetera. But we've really seen user behavior shift in the last few years to that, um, active search, that active discovery, exactly. You said exactly it, right.
Speaker 1:People are coming to tiktok to specifically use the first, the search functionality, and look for, you know, that new destination, for example, what to do when they're in destination, like what? Um, what are the new sort of travel themes? Are we like solo traveling? Are we going away with the girls, etc. Like? People are coming to tiktok to do that and I think our latest stat in the uk is three in ten people are searching for travel content on the platform. So we've gone from that sort of um, inspiration, uh sort of piece to actually people leaning in and planning their trips. And I think not to like bore you with stats, but I think it's something crazy. Like 37% of people have saved a travel video and 22% of them have a specific travel folder on TikTok. So they're leveraging that content, like you said, to plan but also to you know, use when they're in market as well, when they're at the destination, and I think it just reflects like how engaged the TikTok audience is. They're in market as well when they're at the destination. And I think it just reflects like how engaged the TikTok audience is. They're not just, you know, passively watching their content, they're leveraging it.
Speaker 1:And back to that Focusrite research that we ran like 42% of people actually visiting or making a booking. So back to the idea of the booking element as a direct result of content that they saw on TikTok, as a direct result of content that they saw on TikTok. So sort of starting to, you know, have a real, you know, point of view at TikTok. For all those sort of stages, I think people would used to go to travel agents or use travel brochures, for example, or use online search engines, but now you can come to TikTok to get that real behind the scenes of a TikTok traveler's trip.
Speaker 1:And then what I also love, obviously, working with brands is that the TikTok community tag brands in posts travel brands more so than sort of any other platform. I think the stat was like 41% of people sharing to TikTok versus maybe 28% of people sharing to other platforms, and I think maybe that's because TikTok is quite new and it's grown so quickly, the fact that brands have been there from the outset. So they're already sort of part of the conversation. People want to, you know talk about brands and you know use those brands to sort of guide friends and family but also the TikTok community in terms of sort of the great trips they've had and why and sort of the great trips they've had and why and sort of the brands behind that. So I think the sharing element as well is something that you get on TikTok maybe more so than any other platform.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's also really interesting. And I guess that brings up another question for me, which is when I look at certain brands. I'll use WeRoad as an example and I happen to. I'm a big fan of WeRoad and I'm an advisor to them and I've seen they've got really terrific marketing. They do some amazing work on all the social channels, but specifically on TikTok.
Speaker 2:But one of the things I had noticed is that they actually haven't integrated that into their website. So when you go to WeRoad for the first time and you're looking at their experiences, it's great that they have a TikTok strength that would have got them there in the first place, but then there's no TikTok content on the site. And it's one of the things that in my previous role across all the travel corporation brands, we were very focused on trying to get user-generated content onto the website because, just like traveler reviews, it is probably one of the main reasons it to keep people engaged, spending more time on the site and ultimately converting, because they want to see these authentic, real life experiences that people are having. It just builds so much trust and confidence. So for some, for travel brands that have started to develop a strength on TikTok, how would you suggest that they integrate that onto their websites so they can really leverage that content more effectively.
Speaker 1:That's a very good question. I don't think I've ever been asked that before about obviously taking the content off TikTok, but it's a really good point. Right, You're making this fantastic content on TikTok. Why might you not be then using it on the website?
Speaker 2:Is that another product potential maybe?
Speaker 1:potentially. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends, and I think that's the other thing. I think it depends when you're working with creators, specifically like, what rights do you have to the content? Is it potentially going to be more expensive to say you'll live in perpetuity on our, on our website? And again, I guess it depends on the creator. Typically, if you're working with a creator, you'll have access maybe for 60 days or 90 days on your TikTok or you'll be boosting their content for that amount of time.
Speaker 1:But taking it on to um the website is interesting. I know in the UK um first choice part of the TUI group, um uh ran. I think they were called travel insiders maybe, and they were creator, their creators, who were posting a lot on all social platforms TikTok one of them and I know they also hosted some content on the website too. But you're right, it's quite few and far between in terms of you like we have that fantastic content, why aren't they necessarily leveraging it on the platform as well? Is that like a missing link, I guess, in terms of making sure the people who are then going to the website to book, you know, I guess, maintain that like narrative through it? I'd say, yeah, something to think about, for sure.
Speaker 2:I just we've seen that even like moving the you know the placement of the reviews and making closer to the book now button can increase the likelihood that someone's going to click through. So you know, when you're on a page, seeing an amazing experience of we wrote in Italy having that video to show someone that that's because that content is so fresh, you know it's um, something that's happened in the last week that again builds that much more trust and confidence. So, no, I I love the idea of doing more to integrate that short form video content. And I know there's different plugins, like there are companies that leverage, like CrowdRift, for example. They take social content and they build it in so that you can have a plugin and and, and this is this really excites me, and I just think that's where I've seen that a lot with images, but I haven't seen it as much with video, and that's obviously what TikTok is known for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I spoke to someone recently about they were working on something similar in terms of, you know, when you have the pictures of your hotel on a website and they're all relatively generic, like being able to bring in video content would be fantastic, right able to bring in video content would be fantastic.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and what is it specifically about the videos you've seen? I mean, you've kindly mentioned a number of, uh, valuable points, so I know I've but one of them. What I wanted to ask, like, when you look at what influence we're sharing, like behind the scenes content or destination guides, or if they're you know, um, what are some of the, I guess, the approaches I realize with content creators, they all have their own style, so I'm not, I guess I'm not asking for some insight on those particular individuals, more so, in kind of just general terms, for travel companies that you see succeeding on the platform, and what is it that they're doing? That is, is it putting out deals? Is it putting out like I know that was actually part of kluke strategy was like they were these influencers that they were highlighting discounts or incentives to book, um, so, yeah, if you wouldn't mind just sharing some other creative suggestions or, um, you know how you're seeing some of the most successful travel brands really leveraging the platform to uh to drive that booking activity.
Speaker 1:I would say one thing is not being too concerned about focusing on one thing and having one sort of niche, almost I think on TikTok it's, of course, deals, are, you know, pretty much always going to land. People love a deal. But have you done enough as a brand or as a creator to sort of engage with the community and have that conversation at all parts of the travel funnel? Right, are you just about getting people to book? That might work very well for you. However, I guess from a TikTok point of view, we would recommend taking the time to sort of building a bit of a um, a bit of a following and a bit of a community.
Speaker 1:I was at skift, the mega trends event last last week yeah, it's monday show, isn't it last week and, um, we were talking a little bit about, obviously, their um trend around influencers being the new power brokers and conversate, moving from commerce to come. Well, having conversation rather than commerce and offering advice rather than advertising, and I think I mean that encompasses so many different things. But, yes, it's great to do five best things to do in Istanbul or whatever it is, but I think the creative content that lands the best and the brand content that lands. The best is that has an element of storytelling and the behind the scenes, right, it's not just about the beach or the hotel pool that you end up at, it's how did we book it, how did we get there, what happened at the airport, for example, or on the ferry, um, how you know all the different experiences, what's the buffet like? Or um, the local market like?
Speaker 1:Bringing the, the community into sort of every aspect of that, I think, is what's most important. I also completely appreciate that the majority of brands, you know they're assessed on the bookings right, the ROI. So, yes, of course there is the time for that shorter form, to the point, the X amount off your next trip or whatever that is. But I think the it's so valuable to sort of build that community and that relationship on TikTok with you know, with the community, and tap into different, you know, content categories as well as just sort of driving those ultimate bookings. I think that's what's going to give you the longevity on TikTok.
Speaker 2:Well as we're in 2025, and obviously so much is going to happen this year and clearly this is a major focus for TikTok. So, given the tools you've already mentioned and obviously you highlighted some that are upcoming I'd be keen to know what other features that you are looking to introduce or potentially going to roll out that are tailored directly to either the content creators or to travel brands. Specifically, what is the what does this year look like with tiktok investing and focusing and travel, and what's some of the things we can look forward to?
Speaker 1:I kind of mentioned it before, but the, the move towards offering a lower funnel, a conversion, an roi-led solution, is what we're rolling out this year. So so our catalogue on ads for travel is that product. It's our first and only product built on that travel intent model. So being able to reach the customer when they're in market they want to plan their trip and make those bookings. That's the product that we are really focused on this year. As I said, it will be rolled out for general availability, um, hopefully later this quarter, for all brands in, but in initial testing we've seen some really fantastic results. That's our sort of main focus in terms of our travel offering.
Speaker 1:I'd say the move to, as you said, that user behavior, the move to search. Obviously it's not travel specific, but I think the fact that it's such a popular um, you know search topic on the platform we've launched our search ads product in the US and Europe should be following later this year as well. So you know, I definitely want to kind of uh, watch this space on. In terms of creators, I think we, like they, are the heart of TikTok. We wouldn't have a platform without them. So you know, working with brands to support them on that creator journey, continuing to offer, like the creator marketplace, with all those insights and also our creative exchange, supporting brands, create content for TikTok, both with creators and, you know, without creators. There's also obviously the creator team at TikTok who support creators directly to ensure you know they're getting the support they need on the platform as well. Obviously they are TikTok really, but yeah, for us and sort of the team that works with brands, it's definitely our sort of catalog ads for travel.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming at some point you must have been inspired to travel from something you've seen on TikTok. Do you have an example of where that you've either traveled to a new destination you didn't expect to? Or, yeah, tell us about your, I guess, engagement on TikTok when it comes to travel on a personal level, if you don't mind, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:So I guess back to the idea that there's a travel uh niche or a travel community on TikTok for everyone. So I had my little boy at the end for a long time ago now, but the end of 2023, so he's he's one and a couple of months, but I just obviously, until last year he was born right at the end of 23 never had, you know, never traveled as a family in that sort of sense, right, so always had very different travel experiences, um than now as a mom, as a relatively new mom, obviously last year, but being able to plan my whole trip on TikTok. So I think the first one of the first trips we did was to Amsterdam. I'd been to Amsterdam a number of times, but never with my little boy Very different experience. So TikTok was where I went for all those tips and I know the flight from London is very short but still no less stressful but being able to go to TikTok for all those tips and tricks for how to travel, what buggy to take, et cetera, and then also what to do when I got there.
Speaker 1:There's so many great pieces of content on TikTok and like searching for it, finding out, like what are the top things to do with the baby. I didn't know Amsterdam even had a zoo. I've been there a number of times but never been to the zoo. So being able to find all that and plan all that on TikTok and also again like rather than going to a search engine right or being able to actually see the people who had already taken their kids to the zoo and what they did there and what time of day they went, and everything like that being able to actually see it in action for me was kind of essential to making sure the trip went smoothly, or as smoothly as it could have gone with a like six month old baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wonderful. I'm really glad you shared that, because I'm a huge advocate of traveling with kids. We have twins and we've taken them all around the world. It was like have twins will travel was our phrase, and we had them. And so many people do stop traveling, and this is what I like about what you just highlighted is that if people can see other people traveling and be inspired to say, you know what, I'm going to get on that plane or I'm not going to miss it, I need to go and see that zoo. It's exactly why it is such a perfect source of inspiration to see other people like you that are having amazing vacations with their family and motivating more people to book that trip or not. You know not to be focused on just trying to get them down to bed at a certain time and creating such a routine and structure. You know we had.
Speaker 1:Our view was like they just have to come with us so you make it work. Um. Talking of great creators, um, we, our next, our next great adventure, I think, on tiktok, a guy and his wife um, I can double check it, um and his little girl from the us. They, I think, sold up everything and, uh, currently traveling the world and love their content. It's so good, it's like the, the places you'd never think to go with a, with a baby, with a toddler, and you can see like the little girl growing up. I think they just did disney, um, but it's not just disney, right, it's like everywhere. It's, yeah, really fantastic. Uh. Tiktok account. I always like stop and watch, um, when I see their content that's really cool.
Speaker 2:good, I'll check that one out. I've seen quite a few and I love seeing how and it's almost you're obviously you've got a young son, but it goes so quickly. Everyone tells you that and then, sure enough, when you look at photos or you start looking at these videos, you can see people who've?
Speaker 2:been doing it for 10 years and their kids have grown up. Hannah, I want to make sure that people actually know. Well, actually I've got. I got two more questions for you. What would be three suggestions you'd have for travel brands for engaging with TikTok?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I mean super simple, but download the app, get on, get on TikTok. Like we said before, there's no substitute for, you know, spending some time on the platform, scrolling through the content, getting an understanding for what resonates with you and also what, also, what you know, what would resonate for your brand and your brand values. Then again, like it's not just, don't just limit your think about obviously working with creators, but don't limit yourself to travel creators. Pretty much everyone loves to travel. What, like why is that person, you know, traveling? Is it? Is it a family trip? Are they going to see a concert or a sports event? Like what is inspiring them? How can you sort of tap into that conversation, I would say.
Speaker 1:And then also, I mean that's such a big topic like the sub communities around travel on TikTok is huge and I think, as a brand, like being scared to you know you're not going to do it wrong, right, but not being scared to sort of let down the guardrails, a little bit like British Airways, obviously a legacy British brand lots of, I'm sure, rules around their brand messaging etc. But have a look at their TikTok account, how, how they've sort of they show such a different tone of voice on TikTok. They do a really fantastic job at showing up a little bit differently than they do on other platforms or however they have done through traditional marketing, and I think just seeing brands like that, hopefully you, as a new brand, will be able to see the value that that offers being able to talk to this super engaged, super large community on TikTok who are, you know, at the edge of their seats watching and booking travel content. I don't know if that's kind of two points, but kind of 10.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, I'm sure there's many more.
Speaker 1:So, and then final tip for influencers or content creators yeah, final tip, I mean, keep doing what you're doing in a way, but also, I guess, for new creators, same sort of thing for the brands, right, if you love to travel, you know, start putting that content on TikTok and, you know, start engaging with that community. I think people, if the content is, you know, native, if it's TikTok, first, you know people want to see it and engage with it. You know, sort of give it a go. And also, I guess, don't be afraid to start, you know, like showing why you travel, right, I think, again, like back at I was pulling some video examples last week for the Skift event, and one of their sort of mega trends is around live tourism and we sort of call it fandom, like why people travel.
Speaker 1:And there was one content creator creating content for tolkien fans, tolkien heads, so people who love lord of the rings and the hobbit, and if that's what you're passionate about, there will be people on tiktok who are also passionate about that and if you want to share that experience, people would love to see it yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:Hannah, the number one driver for people going to new ze is still Lord of the Rings. It's incredible. I went to Hobbits on myself many years ago, but cool. So just in closing, then, given that we've intrigued a lot of travel brands and working with content creators, but obviously working with TikTok how can they find out more information about working with TikTok? I'm assuming there's a certain threshold of spend to be able to work with you guys directly, so need to be mindful of that. But in terms of following up with yourself, the team or even just making sure that you direct them in the right places to be able to leverage the TikTok platform, where would you send everyone?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, let me send you sort of the site, the TikTok for business site, also the creative sorry the TikTok creator exchange. I can send you links to that. I can send you links to the creative exchange as well. I'm on LinkedIn as well if anyone wants to connect and hopefully I can direct you in the right direction. But yeah, I'll also share all those links as well with a little bit more information that hopefully can help your listeners and the brands.
Speaker 2:That sounds fantastic. Well, thank you for this, hannah. It's a pleasure to meet you. It's great to get your insights. It's obviously going to be a big year for travel and a big year for TikTok. We haven't spoken about what's happening in the US and we'll leave that for now, because we'll see how everything plays out. Our world is, you know, it's always, it's ever evolving, and but I'm a big fan of the platform and I've learned a lot from our conversation today. So thank you for joining us and hopefully we'll keep in touch, and I wish you every success in the year ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you too.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, dan. That was great. Thanks so much for having me. We'll be right back. Are you looking for ways to grow your travel business through paid media and optimized SEO? Then you have to check out our friends at Propelliccom. They are the leading digital agency for growth in travel and tourism. Propellic offers bold digital marketing strategies to ensure your travel company's success. They have a remarkable methodology that has actually been implemented by TravelAIcom and they area leading SEO agency globally and offer a range of resources, a podcast of their own, a blog on their website, propelliccom that's P-R-O-P-E-L-L-I-Ccom. And don't forget to mention Travel Trends for your free marketing audit.
Speaker 2:Are you interested in learning more about how AI is impacting the travel industry? Well then, you have to check out travelaicom slash trends. Travel AI are the leaders in implementing AI across a range of exciting travel businesses and they share and showcase many of the exciting developments on this page with our listeners. Their team knows that AI is going to transform every industry on the planet and the best companies today are integrating AI into all of their processes. So check out the latest developments at travelaicom slash trends and learn how to make your travel business more efficient. They're also on LinkedIn, pinterest and Twitter new without altering any of your site setup. In 2024 alone, their tools have powered more than 2 billion pages and help their partners generate more than $500 million in GMV. It's time for you to join successful partner programs like Matador Network and Weatherbug and elevate your earnings. Today, just go to stay22.com slash travel trends and you'll get details on an exclusive offer just for travel trends listeners. That's stay22.com, slash travel trends.
Speaker 2:And now back to the show. I now have the pleasure of giving you a bonus discussion with our friend over at Stay22, andrew Lockhead, so I hope you enjoy this bonus conversation with Andrew to learn more about Stay22. Hello everyone, and welcome back to a live edition here at Focusrite Phoenix, and this is one of our favorite partners of the Travel Trends podcast. You've heard them mentioned all throughout season four. It's Stay22, and I have the pleasure now to sit down with the CEO and founder, andrew Lockhead, a fellow Canadian, but he's from Montreal, so he's got a lovely French Canadian accent, as you'll hear, and he's got a remarkable story to tell. So, andrew, thanks so much for your support on the show and thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thanks for hosting me. Man Super excited about this.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Now I want everyone to know the background on Stay22, because there's multiple people I speak to and they know about you. They know about Stay22 because of the journey you've been on within the travel tech ecosystem in Canada, and so you've got a great reputation there. I know you've been up for a number of awards and your business is now truly becoming a rocket ship, but tell us how it all started and how you created this business.
Speaker 3:Sure. So back in 2016, we launched the company and I was coming from an entertainment background, so I was selling ticketing platform tickets and my co-founder, ahmed, was the one creating the product, which was a State 22 map-based solution, so really made for South by Southwest. They can embed this on the website and see all of the accommodation nearby. And by working alongside, we figured out that the distribution channel for selling this was through events like ticketing and going so on, and we just managed to raise a bit of money out of this, grew the company like 4X over a year and it's like a really good stride.
Speaker 2:Very cool, and so the Stay 22,. Tell everyone exactly how that name came to be the branding initially.
Speaker 3:I wish it was a good reason. We tried to purchase statecom and back then it was about 100 grand. Obviously today it would be cheap money, but back then it was way too much for what we could afford. And my co-founder was 22 years old and he was also born on the 22th of the month. So we're like you know what? Statecom will cost $5.99 on the GoDaddy and that's good enough for us.
Speaker 2:Perfect, yeah, and it's lucky Lucky numbers. Clearly it's lucky lucky numbers, Clearly it's all it's worked out Now. You made a few pivots with this business, so tell us about, kind of I guess, what was ultimately the pivot to the product market fit that you now have that's working so well. So how did you evolve the business model and tell everyone about what Stay22 does today?
Speaker 3:Sure. So we always stay core to the mission of like helping our partner better monetize their audience. That's always stick with us. But when the pandemic hit, there was no more events, there was no more traveling and we lost 90% of our revenues in a matter of weeks. So we laid off more than two-thirds of the team and decided to just launch different products to the market, and one of them really worked well. With Content Creator, we figured out that those guys are true artists at heart. They love creating videos, doing video montage, taking pictures, writing blogs, but when it comes to the monetization aspect of their platform, they're not the best at it, and that's how we came into this. We saw there was a big gap in the market, an opportunity for them to make more revenues by working with people that are specialized in that area, and that's what State22 brought to the table for them.
Speaker 2:Very cool and I know it's content creators, travel publishers. When I was starting our partnership, I was intrigued by the products that you offer and the naming of the products, and this is where we have to bring up the Québécois, french-canadian element, which is so let me LA.
Speaker 3:So my co-founder came with that name and is an English speaker at Hort. But yes, we're kind of a quirky French gay backers.
Speaker 2:Which is great. I mean it adds personality to the brand, especially when you're working with content creators, because I had seen your team in London at World Travel Market just a couple of weeks ago and the activations they were doing with content creators was really inspiring and you could see there was the buzz in the room. But tell everyone, with the model with Stay 22, the idea of being able to give content creator or publishers ways to generate revenue One of the things that stood out to me and I know a number of your partners had mentioned it to me was how you've leveraged AI successfully to build out these widgets that allow people to book accommodation on a travel blogger's website and get commissionable revenue or affiliate program revenue from that, but how quickly you can deploy these solutions and scale them. So tell everyone a bit more about that solution and how that's working out for you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when we came into the industry, most affiliation platforms were offering tools Like you want a search widget, you want a high frame, you want to be able to get like a cover sale of a badge and offering bad customer services, like if they were actually answering your question at all. So we decided you know what? Let's do something different. We're going to come up with one solution that's going to take the full ownership of your platform and we will decide what's best for you and your audience, instead of figuring out like you should use this or X or Y. No, no, state 22 will take care of it and optimize as it goes through LLM. So we're using, actually right now, gemini and a bit of HOD to actually read information from the page, figure out whatever content is the best for the user, whatever provider will be for best as them and sometime we're able to adapt and optimize the content for them, so this way they can generate more revenues without having to lift a single finger.
Speaker 2:And you obviously have all the big players like from Expedia to Vrbo, bookingcom, hotelscom I mean you've got the full accommodation ecosystem. So you essentially aggregate all of those options together for a content publisher a influencer if you will and then give them the opportunity to essentially create passive revenue on their website by adding these tools. That are, from what I understand, some of the stats I'd recorded for a recent ad. You guys served up like 3 billion pages this year and also contributed to about 500 million in total revenue.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's crazy for a small company that eight years ago nobody believed in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's definitely a good twist. Send them a real history.
Speaker 2:So tell everyone how they can actually go through getting set up on the platform, because that's one of the things that a lot of companies have been struggling with revenue, because, obviously, google algorithm changes and so they're struggling to maintain their revenue. And the idea for you guys is that you can add this into your site quickly, seamlessly, like three quick steps, and it doesn't change any of the existing coding of your website or existing partners. You just add this in over everything else. So, yeah, take us through those steps. What's leading to all the success you're having?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's super easy. People go on the website c20.com. They can register on their self-serve solution. They'll get a script and from there they'll be able to embed that script on their website in five minutes, nothing else to do. We'll be able to read the information and it's got optimized through time, pretty simple.
Speaker 2:And how does the difference work between a content publisher and a, so a content creator and a travel publisher? Like how do you kind of separate those two profiles of customers?
Speaker 3:It's much different. So think about it. Every single one of them start as a creator and after this, as they're getting more volume, they become an influencer, and some of them decide to go one step further and become a publisher. So have a full team working with them actually reach out to much more people. It's the biggest volume as well. It's more professional versus the influencer that are micro, that are more neophyte. So for us, we wanted to offer two different types of services in terms of customer, but also product. So one of them will be really about finding out missed opportunities for creators, while the other one will be about optimizing what they're currently doing and working with.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay? No, super helpful context, because I think this is where you know, when people are trying to understand a business like State 22 and trying to wrap their head around it, it's that much more important to actually break it down and simplify it, because I think it seems far more complex than it needs to be and there's so many other businesses out there that could benefit from the business model that you have.
Speaker 3:And it's hard, like most people are thinking we're a network, but we're not a network, we're not a technology, we're kind of somewhere in between and it's hard for us to just pinpoint exactly what we're doing.
Speaker 2:What would be a few examples of existing clients that you had, because I know you've got some incredible success metrics of increasing bookings by 50% or conversions by 10% to 15%. Highlight a few clients you currently have and I guess what their success has been like working with you guys.
Speaker 3:Sure. So we work with creators like Wilting at Going Awesome Places, based in Toronto so shout out to my friends in Canada Working with bigger ticketing platform like AXS that's the second biggest ticketing platform in North America. And we're also working with climate companies, publishers in the travel space and Adjuscent as well. So they're going to be talking about car, but even then we're looking to go and travel for F1. We'll be travelers that are looking to get into, so we can actually offer services and product for those people too.
Speaker 2:And one of the things I know you're working on. We have a mutual friend in common, ian Cumming, who runs Travel.
Speaker 3:Massive.
Speaker 2:So he's a great partner of yours as uh, as travel trends are as well, and so we we sort of decided that we would collaborate as well, given that we're both partners with stay 22, on this latest survey that you've introduced to be able to get more information about content creators and the survey. I filled it out as soon as it was created, thank you and um, and I was actually just really impressed I know, uh katarina on the team in toronto. She was involved in it so I just uh recognized credit where credit is due, because I was like this survey was excellent, like just in terms of the quality of the questions and the answers you're going to be able to get. So I'm looking forward to being able to share that with all of our listeners in January when we do our influencer series, and so we'll be able to share the results of that obviously being a partner together. But yeah, tell us a bit about the reason for that survey and what you're hoping to get out of it.
Speaker 3:Sure. So one thing that we figured out through time as an entrepreneur is like everyone has a solution, everyone has an idea, but the best way to test those things out is to bring them to the market. And even though it can be my basement at night thinking about the best thing that's going to be happening for the industry, I have no fucking clue what I'm doing. Sorry for swearing. So I just have to figure out, and the best way to figure it out is actually by talking with potential leads, my current customers, with partners, and this is how we can actually get their feedback and improve from there, because otherwise they're just a single idea that's housed in the market that nobody else will be able to play with. But by filling up those surveys, asking questions, better understanding what their mindset is, what are their challenges. This is how I would be able to feel what a pain point is and how does State 22 or another company out there can actually solve them Right.
Speaker 2:And the one thing I also have the privilege of receiving is your monthly investor newsletter that you send out, and I was telling Andrew when we were catching up yesterday that it's my favorite by far, and for a number of reasons. It's so honest and transparent and the very first thing that andrew will put into each of which, I'm always keen to read it because it's yeah, it's fresh, it's transparent, it's honest and just in completely open, like kind of warts and all approach to um, to scaling a startup, and so there's been recently there's been two examples where, like you just instantly lead in with, like you know, it's been a terrible month. We tried to launch this project with Get your Guide and it fell over and we're trying to get to the bottom of it and it's just like wow, like it's just like the candor is refreshing. Same with some of the algorithm updates with Google. You just laid it out for your investors to say this is where we're struggling.
Speaker 2:And the other thing that I like in your approach is you always have your ask, which I know. Clearly you've come up through understanding incubators and working with investors, and so there's often a sort of a structure to how they recommend you communicate with your investors. So I see some of those consistent elements that are important. The one that I think you use very effectively is how can we help? And I always look for that one as well, to see if there's something that I can do, just like as a friend and a colleague. But I like that you just call that out because it's like again, it's this idea of being vulnerable, which I think a lot of people are always trying to project success, and you just say it as it is.
Speaker 3:Thanks for sharing. It takes so much time to write those updates and every single time I'm like does anyone even read it? Like actually after all the time and invest in this? And one thing I hate talking with other people and entrepreneurs like how is it going? And then sort of like everything is perfect, I'm happy, business is in real.
Speaker 3:I'm like this is fake, like 100 bullshit yeah I love the transparent approach because this is how I managed to get the best feedback. Yeah, by building fully transparent. People are telling me things like it is and most of the time, they're more than happy to help. They're going to provide great insight, share, give me introduction connection as well.
Speaker 2:So, more transparent it is, better it is well and I'm gonna give another example of that too is, uh, remy, who we work with, who heads up your marketing and, um, terrific marketing leader. But one of the things you actually called out was that he needed a mentor. And I was like, again, that's, that's, that's refreshing candor, because some people struggle to ask for help. And it's like now you've got your boss asking for a friend to say my marketing leader needs a mentor. And like to other people that might think, well, their job's on the line now because, like, they're on a performance improvement program, but no, it's not the case. Like it's like you're genuinely trying to be helpful for him and for you and for the business to say you could actually benefit from having a mentor.
Speaker 3:One of the three values of the company is curious and we strongly recommend all of our employees to actually have people to learn from and we force actually a leadership team. So we have 12 people that we force them to have actually mentors and coaches so they can have at least one hour session with those, because otherwise you're still in your sandbox, you're not able to grow as fast as you could, and I strongly believe that having those type of people around can really help someone grow personally and professionally.
Speaker 2:For sure, and given that you've had this journey, that you've been on for six years and you have made these pivots and now you're riding this incredible cresting, this wave, where you've got the product market fit and you can really scale this business market fit and you can really start to scale this business, tell us a little bit where you see yourself at the end of 2024 in terms of revenue investment for those people that are just getting up to speed with Stay22. Let's start by giving everyone a kind of a snapshot of where you guys are today and then I'd like to talk about where you want to be in 2025. Sure?
Speaker 3:So, as of today, we roughly work with about 5,000 partners. We have a team of about 60 people and, as you mentioned, we'll be processing half a billion dollars in total sales from cruises, flights, restaurants, hotels, accommodation and so on. Next year. We're looking to keep growing. Obviously, the rules of number make it harder to grow, so keep doubling or tripling year over year to make it harder, but we strongly believe that we are shot at reaching a billion dollars in total transaction volume. So this is exactly what we'll be working toward. Obviously, we'll need to grow, launch new product, diversify our portfolio as well, and we're really looking forward to that.
Speaker 2:We have an amazing team of people working on this project day and night and we cannot wait to hit the market with it and you obviously have a strong tech lead your co-founder, the CTO that Ian was very impressed with as well, as I told you, because Ian's background is technology and he was so impressed with your CTO, and one of the things you've been able to embrace and successfully drive results with is AI. So cut through the hype and the bullshit, as you would say, but you've been able to really leverage that. So tell us a bit about how you actually have embraced that technology and how you're seeing that enhance your platform in 2025.
Speaker 3:Sure. So how we did for 2024, so I'll go back about WebWidget launch so we launched Spark. Spark read the content of the page and from there we'll be able to figure out what are the missing opportunities, as I mentioned. So it's going to make sure that it offers complimentary offering services, travel-related components to it, and now we're taking the same technology, but on videos. So we're actually moving to YouTube in 2025 as a new channel for us and it's been amazing so far.
Speaker 3:So the AI we're using right now, a bit of like Gemini and Cloud, will read the information from the videos on YouTube, from the travel experience, travel tips, you name it Read what a person has been mentioning, but also the videos and the image from there. Combining both, they'll be able to figure out all the missed opportunities once more, or so, what hotel, what type of activities they did, what type of flight they've been using as well, and prompt those in the description of the videos. So previously they were not making any money, let say, with any type of ancillaries or like affiliation. Now, in a matter of a click, same mentality, same solution, they'll be able to generate tens of thousands of dollars without having to do much work.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, that's exciting. And then, in terms of the industries that you want to continue to expand, you mentioned cruises. I actually didn't even realize that that was a space, that, and that we just are doing our cruise series right now, as you know. That was a space, that, and that we just are doing our cruise series right now, as you know. So tell us a bit more about how you're planning to expand the product offering that, whether publishers or content creators can generate revenue from, because, as I understood it, it's largely been accommodation based, but clearly you can tap into any aspect of the travel booking. So, yeah, what are the main growth areas you're looking at in 25?
Speaker 3:Actually, dan, it's even bigger than that. So next year we'll be reaching over 4 billion users and for the past eight years of our life, we've only sold travel components. Right, we sold a bit of hotels After this shorter rentals. I did tourism activities, restaurants, parking. In 2025, state of the Union will be able to step into retail. So now, every single time a user will be loading one of our partners' pages. If we see that there's an opportunity to sell them let's say, luggage, maybe clothing because they're going to the beach, sun lotion, whatever we feel might be a good fit for them we'll be able to offer also consumer goods for those. So that's a whole different segment for us and I'm really excited about what the team is working on in getting to the market.
Speaker 2:And now to achieve those goals, are you planning on doing a next raise in 2025? Is that part of your growth plans?
Speaker 3:We got really burned out in 2020 when we were doing our previous fundraising, because of the pandemic, some investors decided to not send their money, even though the paperwork was signed, and from there we decided to own our destiny so not work with investors anymore, and we decided to keep ourselves as a bootstrap. Our destiny so not work with investors anymore, and we decided to keep ourselves as a bootstrap. Though, as I just mentioned, with LLM, we can have a new kid in San Francisco that can compete with us tomorrow morning. So having more resources will help us get to the market faster, reach out more creators and help them as well make more revenues. And I'm not sure if you know, but running LLM on videos is super expensive, like really really expensive. So more videos will need to embed, more will need money to finance that. So, yes, financing is an option that we're actually looking back into, even though I said like never again.
Speaker 2:Well, you're certainly in a much better position now because obviously you're coming from a position of strength and so clearly you have a better opportunity now to dictate the terms and the partners, so you can get smart money, strategic money and I'm and you'll have some great options. We actually have a lot of investors that listen to our show, so we'll see how many of them actually reach out, but I definitely think it's a compelling opportunity. I'm very excited for State 22's success in 2025. Just on that note, with your plans for the business as you scale, are there any other trends that you're paying attention to in this industry? Obviously, we're here at Focusrite, so it's great to get this time together in person. So, anything else that's standing out to you here at Focusrite or that you're just also paying attention to in terms of overall travel trends and consumer behavior in 2025?
Speaker 3:The main component for us has really been about experiences. It ain't nothing new. I think it was a subject of the Focusrite 2022, give or take, but I'm still 100% believer in this. I believe that experiences is what drive the world, is what drive people to travel, and that's the reason why we want to be able to actually help people figure out their next experiences around the world, no matter what it is.
Speaker 2:Nice, and where are you headed in 2025 on your travels? Clearly you have a lot of business travel, I'm sure, but you're obviously an avid traveler. So what is on your list for places you want to get inspired to see next year?
Speaker 3:Believe it or not, I hate traveling. That's probably the reason why I jumped into that business, because, as every single entrepreneur, you want to solve your own problem. So I'm trying to stay as home as possible, especially with a new kid that's about 12 months old, but the next trip for me will be in Panama in January of 2025. So you might see me there.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, that's a family trip.
Speaker 3:No, it's a professional trip, okay, I was going to say I highly encourage you to take the family if it can work out. You're actually shout out to your sponsor I'm going on a cruise in disney as well.
Speaker 2:So, uh, I'll be able to test it out for the first time in my life oh, that's awesome, andrew, you're gonna like and I highly encourage you to keep traveling with kids. But that was our commitment to uh um to each other and to them was just a just to keep traveling. So it's um, it it's. It's a wonderful opportunity for them, but also it connects you more to each other and the places you're visiting by having that opportunity.
Speaker 3:So that's a good note.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. But, andrew, I just want to say thank you again for the partnership, the support, and I look forward to continue our collaborations. I wish you every success here at Focusrite and everything that's set to come in 2025 for Stay22.
Speaker 3:Not an amazing time. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for joining us on this very first episode of our deep dive into the role of influencers in travel. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Hannah Bennett, the head of travel over at TikTok. She, of course, mentioned three valuable links that I wanted to share with you, which is the TikTok creator marketplace, which you can find at creatormarketplacetiktokcom. She also mentioned the creative exchange, which is actually at adstiktokcom slash creative exchange. We'll actually put all of these in our episode notes. You can find them there as well. And then, of course, you can check out for TikTok for business, which is much easier to learn about their different advertising opportunities, which is tiktokcom slash business. But the other one you should be aware of is the TikTok Creative Center. She doesn't actually mention this in our conversation, but it's a great resource for exploring trending hashtags, creators or music and help inform the creative that you're putting together. And you can find that at TikTok Creative Center, which is at adstiktokcom slash business slash creative center. And remember, all of these links will be in our show notes.
Speaker 2:I also just wanted to thank the flightographer team again for sponsoring this series and for introducing their contest and giving away a free photo shoot to all of our listeners and the 10 discount for anyone using the discount code travel trends. So for more information, check out flightographercom slash travel dash trends. That's flytographercom slash travel dash trends. Be sure to tune in for our next episode, as we continue to drop new episodes every week. Thanks again for joining us and until next time, safe travels.
