Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Beyond the Big Five: Expert Tips for Your Ultimate African Safari
Are you ready to experience the untamed beauty of Africa? In this episode Sherwin Banda, president of African Travel Inc. and a Cape Town native, takes us deep into the world of African safaris. With his expert insights, Sherwin paints a vivid picture of the safari adventure—from breathtaking wildlife encounters to the growing emphasis on community and conservation.
What You’ll Learn:
- The booming popularity and evolution of African safaris
- Changing demographics and the rise of luxury travel options
- How sustainability is shaping the future of safari tourism
- Essential tips for choosing the best safari experience and providers
- Exciting new destinations redefining the safari landscape
Sherwin’s heartfelt stories and expertise reveal how safaris offer more than just thrilling moments—they’re a life-changing way to connect with Africa’s incredible landscapes and wildlife. Whether you’re a seasoned traveler or new to the safari scene, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration to help you plan your next wild adventure for yourself or one of your clients.
Don’t miss the chance to step into the heart of the African wilderness. It's time to answer the call of the wild!
👉 Listen to Beyond the Big Five: Expert Tips for Your Ultimate African Safari Now
🔥 Season 5 Title Sponsors: TravelAI, Stay22, Propellic, Flight Centre, Collette, Flywire, Traveltek and Protect Group
Season 5 Launched Jan 15th. New Episodes Every Weds! Check out our first 4 Seasons.
https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/
if. For those people who have not been on a game drive, let me just paint a picture, if I may. Okay, so you're in the vehicle, your game ranger is in front driving the vehicle and on the hood of the vehicle there is a chair and there is a tracker sitting on the hood of the vehicle and most people go why.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends Season 5. This is your host, dan Christian, and I'm excited to introduce our second deep dive of this season, where we're going to take a look at the world of African safaris, an area of the world that I've had the privilege to travel to twice, and I've been really excited to bring this series together because not only is this a massive emerging destination, there's very unique complexities to the African continent, both given the history and the wildlife and conservation efforts and this rapid rise of luxury travel, and when we look at the demographic shifts that are happening in our travel industry, as we've talked about on a number of our episodes, including our adventure series. Our deep dive into the world of cruises and cruises was particularly interesting in season four because we have an industry that was going from 24 million passengers pre-COVID to 34 million travelers by 2030. And what's been fascinating to me, both on the podcast and my speaking engagements and various podcasts that I've been featured on when I'm talking about the demographics and sharing some of the stats that are most important to all of us in this industry to understand where we're headed, not only in the next 10 years, but also by 2050. One of the interesting World Economic Forum stats is that we had 400 million travelers in 2024 and are expected to hit 800 million by 2050. So our industry is going to double. And if we look at the next 10 years alone, we're going to see a significant rise in travelers from the baby boom generation that are going to be spending much of their retirement savings on travel. So this entire sector is well poised for long-term growth.
Speaker 2:But if we look specifically at African safaris, there are some unique characteristics about this industry that I wanted to share that should set the stage for the conversations that we're going to have going forward. For example, african safaris are well positioned to capitalize on the dramatic increase in luxury travelers. But, given the increased capacity, there's the constraints on the luxury travelers. But, given the increased capacity, there's the constraints on the guest experience, especially given the conservation efforts that are required to maintain a lot of these lodges and game parks. But if we just look at the numbers, this was an industry that pre-COVID was somewhere around $20 billion in revenue, depending on the region you look at and the exact metrics, but nevertheless it is poised to grow to about $30 billion by 2030. And some stats have this industry growing to more than $50 billion in the next 10 years. Now, there's no question that this is being driven by a rise in disposable income, especially amongst luxury travelers who are looking for amazing photography experiences and these premium safari lodges, private tours. But the challenges are certainly the high costs, which limit accessibility and that's actually some of the challenge that one of our sponsors, cloud Safaris, is looking to overcome and there's certainly safety concerns that deter some travelers. But, given the innovation in this space, especially around ecotourism, that is certainly going to open up a lot more opportunities for people to travel to the African continent and get to know many of these incredible camps and regions in Africa that are so unique and special, and we're going to spend a lot of time on that when we have our guests join us.
Speaker 2:As I wanted this series to profile the many amazing places you can explore in Africa, many places that I'm still very keen to see myself, and so I wanted to ask each of these experts to open up the continent to us and explain the entire evolution of safaris, some of the biggest trends that are happening in this space, and I wanted to speak to some of the key players that could help us all wrap our heads around African safari travel today and where it's headed in the future. So I hope you enjoy these series of conversations, and we're going to start with African travel, and my good friend Sherwin Bando is going to join us for today's session and then we're going to speak to Ian from Wilderness Now Wilderness is one of the largest operators of camps across Africa. It's an extraordinary company and he's an expert in this space as well and then we're going to speak to Cliff, who's based in Tanzania and runs Savannah Tours. I wanted to make sure we had a local operator as well. We have a really interesting and diverse mix of perspectives that will be finished off with Joshua from Cloud Safaris talking about how the retail space is going to be changed and how people actually book and experience these safaris. Now. Their business has kindly opted to sponsor this series, and I just wanted to acknowledge Josh and the team who run cloud safariscom, and the reason that I actually thought it was a perfect fit for this is because they are focused on B2B and, of course, we are the number one B2B travel podcast globally, thanks to all of our listeners in more than 125 countries now, which is amazing, and these guys are building a B2B solution that is AI-powered for travel agents, focused on East Africa, and their smart tech allows travel agencies to build, customize and quote safaris in just seconds.
Speaker 2:Their focus is to take away the complexity of booking safaris and, specifically, things like child pricing, transportation, logistics or local hotel availability. So their AI solution is intended to make the process entirely seamless, saving you time and energy without compromising on the personalization or the quality, which is exactly what travelers are looking for in these experiences. Their co-founding team are travel agents, and all of them have engineering degrees. They're an impressive group of startup entrepreneurs, but Josh's family has actually been in the safari business for more than 50 years. So for more information, check out cloud safariscom to learn more about how your business can work with them. Thanks again, josh and the team, for sponsoring this series. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2:Have you dreamed of seeing the big five up close or immersing yourself in the culture and beauty of africa with colette? Your dream safari is closer than you think. Since 1993, colette has been crafting unforgettable safari experiences, ensuring every detail is expertly designed, from game drives and breathtaking water activities to meeting locals in their own communities. Colette safaris go way beyond just wildlife. They stay in hand-picked lodges and camps, perfectly situated near parks and reserves, and they minimize one night stays. You can enjoy two or three nights in each location, giving you ample time to unwind and connect.
Speaker 2:Whether you're an avid adventurer or a first-time explorer, a travel advisor or a traveler listening to this podcast, they offer more than just a safari. It's a once-in-a-lifetime experience shaped by a team of passionate travel experts. Start your safari adventure today. Visit GoColettecom to learn more and discover a trip that is perfectly tailored for you. Explore experience, colette. Check out GoColettecom.
Speaker 2:Hey travelers, are you looking to book your next adventure? Then you have to meet our good friends at Flight Center, the travel-obsessed experts ready to make your next dream trip a reality. For over 40 years, they've been opening up the world to travelers from the UK, australia, new Zealand and now. Flight Center Canada is celebrating an incredible milestone 30 years of helping Canadians explore the globe. From their first store in Vancouver in 1995 to becoming the official travel agency partner of the Toronto Raptors this year, they've been at the forefront of delivering travel experiences At Flight Centre.
Speaker 2:Travel is more than a passion. It's their expertise. From flights and accommodations to cruises and tours and even business travel, they handle it all, whether it's crafting a tailor-made trip or tackling group bookings, they've got you covered. Whether it's crafting a tailor-made trip or tackling group bookings, they've got you covered. Plus, with exclusive perks like their new bundle and save $500 on tour and cruise packages. There's never been a better time to plan your getaway From the smallest getaways to the biggest bucket list trips, your travel goals are just a call or a click away. Visit flightcenterca slash travel trends to explore the latest deals, learn about emerging travel trends and start planning your next trip.
Speaker 2:And now back to the show. Let's get on to the very first episode and speak to my good friend, sherwin Banda, the president of African Travel, which has been around for over 45 years and is the longest established luxury safari operator focused exclusively on the African continent established luxury safari operator focused exclusively on the African continent. And Sherwin has been leading that business very successfully for many years and I've had the opportunity to work closely with him. He's an amazing leader, a very inspiring storyteller, as you'll get to know, and we reached him in LA for this conversation. Sherwin, it's so great to have you with us. Thanks a lot for joining Travel Trends.
Speaker 1:I was so excited about this conversation for a number of reasons. A because I like you and nice to be talking to people that I like, but, more importantly, talking about the part of the world that I just absolutely love. It's such an honor.
Speaker 2:And you have so much to offer, and this is where you've got such an amazing backstory that our listeners are going to become familiar with, and I adore you as well. And working with you not only was such a pleasure and this is why we're kicking off our safari series talking to the CEO of African Travel, sherwin Bando, who is a legend in this industry, someone that many others beyond myself respect and admire but the way you came up in the industry is really interesting and fascinating. I think that our listeners will enjoy your backstory, but I think maybe we can just start with African Travel first, because I'm sure there's people out there listening to this that aren't familiar with the brand. So why don't you just tell everyone what is African travel? Give us an overview of the business.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, african travel is North America's largest safari operator that that focuses on Africa exclusively, so that's all we live and breathe. Every one of our team members has actually lived in Africa, was born in Africa or traveled to Africa so many times that we know how to craft experiences that would make not only a lasting impression on our clients, but have meaning to them and gratitude because they have traveled. So it's a really special brand and I love talking about it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's fantastic. Well, obviously, full credit to yourself and Lucille, of course too, who we both work closely with, because you both were the reason that I had an opportunity to travel to Africa twice, and I still remember the line that she had shared with me is that, you know, if you can only go to two continents, go to Africa twice. And for you to have the privilege of not only having had that background and experience and now obviously living in LA, as you have for many years, but like let's, yeah, let's, let's get into your backstory, sherwin. So tell us a little bit about your background in Cape Town and how you got into the hospitality industry, because you were in hotels before. But yeah, tell us a bit about your background, please.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I grew up, I was born and raised in Cape Town, south Africa, so that's where my roots are. I'm one of four kids, and I give that context because I was born into the apartheid era of South Africa, and so my education took a very different route compared to most people here in North America. My mom never graduated elementary school because my grandfather died when she was nine years old and there were nine kids and she was one of the oldest, and so she went to go and clean houses with my grandmother.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:But she was the integral person in my life because, while she did not what I would say have book smart, she had life smart. And she was the one who said I need you to do something that you love. And at a very young age I didn't know what that meant. So after university I went to go study law because I thought I'm going to be the person that's going to be part of rewriting South Africa's constitution.
Speaker 1:And I remember sitting in my first law class and they were talking about colonization and I was just like, oh my God, this is not what I want. So I immediately knew that that was not what I was going to do. So I went home after completing three years to tell my parents I'm not going to be a lawyer. And I hesitated and wrestled with this for such a long time because I was the first one to go to university in my family. So I went home, I said I'm not going to be a lawyer. My mom sat on the edge of her bed, threw her shoe at me because she had paid for me to be at university and she said go and find a job.
Speaker 1:I walked into a retail store which I was working at and a hotel manager walked in and said you need to be in hotels. I was 23 years and African Travel was my client in a luxury hotel in Cape Town, south Africa. I told Decile I am moving back to the US and I was going to hand over the reins to the new general manager. She was devastated and said oh my God, you cannot leave. A month later I get a call from Lucille, and Brett Tolman, the previous chairman of Travel Corporation, basically said we have a job for you if you want. If you're going to go back to LA, would you like to be in charge of African travel? And so that's how I ended up here, and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:So I'm familiar with the last part of that story. What I didn't realize? Well, there's a few things, and this is where I love being able to do the show and have a conversation with someone I've known for many years and have these new revelations. I didn't realize you were training to be a lawyer. That makes a lot of sense because, just given how smart and successful you are, you certainly could have been, but I am glad you chose the travel industry and I didn't know the origin story of how you ended up in the hotel.
Speaker 1:Do you want to just remind everyone what hotel that is? So I was at the Table Bay in Cape Town, which is on the waterfront in the city. Yeah, so that was the hotel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I remember hearing about you and Lucille talking about Table Bay and the fact you ran Table Bay and because that is obviously, as you said, one of the key partner hotels that when they're sending people to for African safaris, that you stay in if you're going to Cape Town. But I didn't realize the part that shocked me, because you're still a young guy and a very successful one at that. You've been there for that long I thought, oh, maybe five or ten years, but not 20 plus. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I actually I traveled around in that 23 years. Of course I managed hotels in England, in the US, and then I went back to South Africa and the real reason this is a funny part of the story we wanted to adopt a child and I knew that I couldn't get my husband to commit in any other way to go back to South Africa, but just have a family, and so that's why we went to Cape Town. We adopted our son.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's amazing and he is adorable. You and I stay connected, of course, on social media. You've got a beautiful family and this is where I just you and I stay connected, of course, on social media. You've got a beautiful family and this is where, like, I mean having a conversation with you when you, you know, when you meet someone that you genuinely like, you admire, you, respect them in the workplace and you also see what they've accomplished personally as well as professionally, and that's where, like, you are truly an outstanding person. And again, like, let's keep on with the conversation. Person. And again, like, let's keep on with the conversation. But I know that this is why I wanted to lead off the safari series talking to you, because there's a lot more you're going to be able to educate me and our listeners on in this conversation about African safaris, which we can demystify for many of our listeners, we'll be right back In today's fast paced travel industry.
Speaker 2:Businesses face constant challenges keeping up with new technologies, meeting ever-evolving customer expectations and promoting products effectively. The real struggle Managing it all in-house. That's where Travel Tech steps in to transform your business. With over 25 years of experience, travel Tech is one of the most trusted names in travel technology, offering tailored solutions to fit your unique needs. They make it easy to create seamless, bookable websites, manage and promote products and automate everyday tasks, giving your team more time to focus on what matters most your customers. Plus Travel Tech is the go-to name in cruise technology, with cutting edge solutions for tour operators as well. Plus Travel Tech has just launched Tech Talk, a new podcast for travel professionals by travel professionals. Explore the stories behind the biggest innovations in travel. Visit TravelTechcom slash TravelTrends or tune in to Tech Talk on Spotify and Apple. That's TravelTechcom slash TravelTrends and Tech Talk on Spotify and Apple podcasts.
Speaker 2:Our longtime listeners will be very familiar with TravelAIcom, one of our sponsors, from the very beginning. They've sponsored the last two seasons and also our AI Summit. You might actually remember they were recently featured in season four. The two co-founders, John Liotier and Chris Jensen, live from Focusrite, where they shared how their innovative use of AI is reshaping the travel industry. If you missed it, we highly recommend going back to hear their inspiring story of building one of the fastest growing, profitable AI companies in travel. Entirely bootstrapped Travel AI is revolutionizing the industry by blending AI powered efficiency with personalized human centered travel experiences, from micro segmentation to tailored travel solutions. Their mission is to enhance every traveler's journey while setting the pace for travel's future. Here's how you can join the exciting mission.
Speaker 2:If you or someone you know in tech or AI, is looking for a new career that combines innovation and impact, then head to travelaicom or follow them on LinkedIn to explore more opportunities. They are growing fast. Thanks again for your continued support. Hey, travel publishers and content creators, if you're searching for a fresh way to boost your revenue, then look no further than our friends at Stay22. Their AI-powered solutions work seamlessly in the background, adding an extra stream of revenue without altering any of your site's setup. In 2024 alone, their tools have powered more than 2 billion pages and helped their partners generate more than $500 million in GMV. It's time for you to join successful partner programs like Matador Network and Weatherbug and elevate your earnings. Today, just go to stay22.com slash travel trends and you'll get details on an exclusive offer just for travel trends listeners. That's stay22.com, slash travel trends.
Speaker 2:And now back to the show. So you've got the hotel background. You moved to Los Angeles, here in Glendale, that's where the office is, and I like the way you actually described African travel, given that there are so many companies that offer safaris and customers are out there trying to figure out. Who do I deal with?
Speaker 2:What are as we both learn from the Tolman family, both Stanley and Brett what are your differentiators? How do you compete on something other than price? What is your unique selling proposition? I certainly had that drilled into me and it's been immensely valuable in my life and career to be able to see companies that are successful and understand why. So let's just go back to that for a minute. When we think about African travel you mentioned, everyone has a background from Africa, so they actually know the continent, they know the countries, and there's many countries. That's the first mistake people make is it's not a country, it's a continent. Many, there's many countries. That's the first mistake people make is it's not a country. There's many amazing places amongst it. But yeah, tell us a few of the other differentiators of African travel.
Speaker 1:Longest established in North America, exclusively focused on Africa, and we are across 14 destinations on the continent, so we've been where most people want to go and travel. Because of our longstanding relationships with partners in Africa, we have negotiating power, so we are able to leverage our learnings of our customers to challenge partners to deliver experiences that are unique and meaningful for people looking to go to Africa, and so that's one of the most important, I think, differentiators compared to anyone else.
Speaker 2:As we'll get into now, like the evolution of safaris, some of the top destinations, all the things that you have a great expertise in, and then we'll get onto some of the trends that we're seeing in safaris today and where you think it's headed.
Speaker 2:But let's bring everyone on that journey, because even when I had a chance to go and I've learned so much in my two trips because there's kind of two places, that there's South Africa and then there is East Africa with Kenya and Tanzania, and those are my experiences, but there's so much more, as you mentioned, 14 different destinations and Lucille had highlighted to me, when we were working on the website and building out a map, to actually pull out the highlights of why you would be going to Tanzania or why you would be going to Botswana and what is the highlights of each of these destinations, so you can decide what makes sense for you as a traveler.
Speaker 2:But the one thing that shocked me, of course, is learning the big five. I mean it's actually goes back to hunting, which is like not what any of us are going there for today and obviously still an issue when it comes to rhinos. But take us through, if you wouldn't mind, give us a little bit about the evolution and popularity of safari travel in Africa. I mean, how, where did you see it originate? You don't go back to the very beginning, but how have you seen that evolve in your you know your career. The Brits first arrived, as an example.
Speaker 1:It was an old world kind of beauty, because while the wildlife was there, not only was the indigenous people there, but most people were going there because of the safari experience, and so initially it was to house people in safety when they come to the destination. Now, over the years, those accommodations has evolved so much so that, if you were to picture the four seasons in the bush, imagine that. And so much more People now can stay in the bush in the lodge and still be connected to their world through digital connectivity. But that's just one aspect of it. It started off with big game hunting. Today we do wildlife game viewing from the safety of a vehicle, but that too has been elevated.
Speaker 1:You can now get out of the vehicle and do walking safaris where you don't have the hum of the vehicle but you get to really walk the earth with the safety of game ranges. But also you get to do that at night, so it's not just daytime. And then my other favorite thing about safaris is being able to do horseback riding or even cycling. When you are on safari, obviously, safety is always the primary concern. We can do that also in the Okavango Delta with water-based activities. Important thing that I love is the cultural and community-based safari initiatives. Connecting with these ancient cultures is just something that brings Africa to life in ways that you wouldn't be able to do or experience had you not traveled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I appreciate that context and of course, we have the colonial past to deal with in terms of how Africa was created, the various certain things you can trace back that actually make sense.
Speaker 2:That that's why the industry started in certain places, like in South Africa, with safaris and Eastern Africa, but obviously it's connected to animal migrations as well. So let's maybe, for someone who has not been on a safari yet, so rewind time when I was speaking to both yourself and Lucille and you guys, where you have to go to South Africa, and it was definitely the first, it was a great place to start. So we're having a few days in Cape Town and then going to a private game reserve near Kruger National Park, and that seemed to be one of the main itineraries. But to speak about the experience of someone going on their first safari, I would love if you wouldn't mind just to share how best to approach that and what the experience is actually going to be, because I didn't. You know, staying at a park and then doing a morning drive, the afternoon drive. So walk us through, I guess what would be a typical safari package and experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So let's talk about South Africa, because it's most North Americans who visit Africa, tend to visit South Africa as a first timers because the country, while it is a third-world country, has a first-world infrastructure. So most itineraries will actually start in Cape Town before safari, for two reasons. One, it allows you to adjust to time before going onto safari, because safari has early morning starts and late nights, so it's a way to ease into the destination. And while there are amazing sights and sounds and adventures to experience in the city experience, the exciting part of the itinerary always is being on safari. So when you arrive in the Kruger National Park on your first day, you typically arrive around lunchtime. So you are picked up from the airport and you go enter the park and entering the park also is a game driving experience. So you are driven from the airport to the lodge and you get there and typically you go into your room. Beautiful accommodations and all accommodations, by the way, when you are on safari, have glass fronts, so you are constantly looking at the view beyond your room, which is really special. So you get there in the afternoon, you have lunch, you get to your room, you have lunch and after lunch you get to relax just a little bit, and around 3.30 in the afternoon you go on your first game drive. Now, a game drive in a game vehicle. Everybody has a front row seat because there are no sides and you have unobstructed views. A game ride, or drive, can last anything between three to four hours, depending on what you see and how long you want to be in the bush. So you're starting out in the late afternoon and you come back in the early time. Now, for those people who have not been on a game drive, let me just paint a picture, if I may. Okay, so you're in the vehicle, your game ranger is in front driving the vehicle, and on the hood of the vehicle there is a chair and there is a tracker sitting on the hood of the vehicle and most people go. Why? Why? Because the tracker is looking at the ground and surveying the landscape, while the and we know in that moment that something is going to happen and you are sitting in the vehicle with bated breath. You see animals within close range of the vehicle, where you are able to see the majesty of this wildlife.
Speaker 1:I have done safaris countless, many times. I am an African, born on the continent. Born on the continent. Every single time I go on this game drive I get goosebumps. I consider it a miracle because it's not something that can be planned, it's just nature telling its story and living part of the day-to-day experience is just being with us on that game drive. So you then come back to camp and you have all these goosebumps and you are like in awe-struck moment that you have just seen what you have seen. And then they bring you Africa on a plate, because now you are going to be served meals of your choice. Or, if you want to try something else, you get to relive the bush experience in camp, because now the locals who are serving you the meals are going to tell their stories through song. This experience of seeing Africa's wildlife and then hearing it retold through songs that you don't understand the words, but it speaks to your soul from a sense of understanding and for some or other weird reason we just get it. So that's the day on safari.
Speaker 2:Sherwin, you just absolutely gave me goosebumps and took me back to my very first time at a game park, because it's exactly as you described, when you see the tracker and you're so nervous to see them climbing off and actually walking through the wilderness, even though they are clearly experienced.
Speaker 2:But it's so overwhelming as a first timer to be in the bush, as I know you guys refer to it and one of the things that Lucille had said to me just wait until you're in the bush for the first time the sights, the smells, the entire experience and it truly is transformative because it's obviously written in our DNA. It takes us back in time where we know when this was our reality, and so it's an incredibly powerful experience. And I think the only thing that you maybe missed there that was one of the highlights was the sundowner the idea that you get to get off, which is another nerve wracking moment when they actually encourage you to get out when you're still in the bush and now you're going to be outside the vehicle. But tell everyone about that experience, because that was such a great highlight as well. The sunset having a drink. But yeah, tell us, tell us how that works, because that's a big highlight of being on safari, oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:Part of the charm of being on safari is being able to celebrate the change from day to night, or from night to day, and on the first game drive experience you are going to be in the bush as the sun begins to set. Now imagine the blue sky suddenly changed to these bright yellow and orange hues and as you look up at the sky, what becomes really special? Because there's no light pollution, you get to see nature on full display, and that's the moment when the vehicle stops and you get out of the vehicle and the guides prepare a drink and eat for you Now, and eats for you Now. Drinks in the African bush just taste differently, because not only are you there surrounded by the smells of nature, but the drinks that we have in Africa these sometimes are unique products of that particular place. One of my favorites and I don't know if you had this when you were there in South Africa Amarula yes, of course so Amarula is what Americans would probably liken to a Bailey's.
Speaker 1:Now I would tell you it's much creamier, more delicious and it comes from the Amarula tree. So be able to have an Amarula drink with biltong, which is indigenous to South Africa. It's dried meat is indigenous to South Africa. It's dried meat and the flavors. That happens under the setting sun is really special. But there's one other part that happens in this moment the sun sets, which also means the behavior of the wildlife changes, because there are nighttime creatures that become really active and there's also prey that become way more active because it's the coolest time of the day. So what you are going to see on subsequent days is the night game drives. That is a completely different experience.
Speaker 2:Well, the night game drives exactly you described, because they're more active at night, which makes sense. So it's unlike a Disney experience where they're trying to cater to when the tourists want to be able to see animals to when they actually are naturally active in their natural habitat, which is the ultimate experience. When you think about the number of days, I think we had done three days initially. What do you say is typical for people for the game park part of their trip? Is it like three to five days? Is that sort of what you would recommend?
Speaker 1:If you're going to South Africa, absolutely. I mean, you could stay in the bush for multiple days and every day would be a different experience, because no two game drives are the same. But you would not do anything less than three nights, because three nights gives you two full days of game viewing and you don't want to have anything less than three nights, because three nights gives you two full days of game viewing and you don't want to have anything less than that.
Speaker 2:yeah, and you highlighted too. I mean the quality of the accommodation and the food is extraordinary and obviously, the culture. So that's where, like you're astounded on multiple levels. 100. Well, let's talk about some of the other destinations too. I mean the, but the. I guess, keeping with the primary destinations of where people go to on safaris, um, walk us through if you wouldn't mind. Obviously, I can't go into great detail on every one of them. I'd love to. We probably need to make this a three-hour interview and maybe we can come back If people are loving it so much and they want a part two and a part three. I mean, I could talk to you all day and I could talk about this subject. But, yeah, tell us about a few of the other destinations, like East Africa, what should be on the top of people's list outside of South Africa and what would be the reasons that they would travel to those areas versus South Africa.
Speaker 1:So while South Africa is amazing and great and great value for money and you're going to get very close to the wildlife because you're going on private concessions, what makes Kenya and Tanzania, east Africa so special? Most people go this is a wildlife game viewing experience 24-7. So if you're going for 10 days other than your arrival day and departure day, which will be out of a city hub, the majority of your experiences are going to be in the African bush. Now imagine a world where you would see 1 million wildebeest and in, dispersed with the wildebeest, another hundred thousand zebra and other plains animals completely unique because the Maasai Mara and the Serengeti is home to the greatest migration on earth. So it is a special place for those wildlife enthusiasts who want to see Africa's wildlife 24-7 on full display, mixed in with indigenous cultures like the Maasai. It makes for a truly meaningful and exciting destination. But there's one other East Africa destination, if I may.
Speaker 1:Go please Rwanda. Rwanda, to me, was a place that left me not only, I would like to say, speechless, but it left me feeling really emotional. Because when you understand Rwanda's story, it was only in the 90s, where they had a horrible genocide, where they had a horrible genocide. And if we look at Rwanda today, it is the poster child for tolerance and when you go there and you meet its people, it just hits differently. But then, secondly, if you go to the rainforest and you see a mountain gorilla, a silverback, you're on foot and you see the silverback with its troop of gorillas and when they look at you, in your eyes it's something eerie because it looks as if it's a human looking back at you.
Speaker 1:Don't forget that we have 98% of the same dna, so it's a remarkable destination. I can talk about east africa all day, but I don't have that time, like you mentioned no, no, but that's so.
Speaker 2:Kenya and tanzania was truly extraordinary, uh, for us as a family. We're traveling with kids. The one thing that people had said to us is um, many people were waiting till they're retired or they're these are retirement trips and the number of people that commented up that we had young kids and what a privilege it was for them, and I couldn't agree more, and I'm saying that because I actually just encourage um anyone out there that's holding off on a trip like this is like take the family, take the kids, and it's not as expensive as you might think compared to other holidays, um, um, so keep that in mind. It's uh, but uh, the um. The fact you actually mentioned Rwanda is really meaningful for a couple of reasons. Uh, one, I had Charles Shima on the show, who is um a survivor, and he emigrated to Canada and he's runs a travel company and really amazing success story, um, given the challenging circumstances in which he arrived in Canada. But what a number of people have commented to me.
Speaker 2:So, matthew Upchurch, from the CEO of Virtuoso, whom you know, and my good friend Shane, who runs the head of travel for Microsoft, both of them were at the WTTC conference last year in Rwanda and Shane said to me you have to ask Matthew Upchurch in the interview, which has been our most popular interview that we've ever done on the show because, just like you, he's an amazing storyteller and just has such a deep knowledge and expertise, and that's why I think this one is going to be this is going to rock it to the top, maybe even give Matthew a challenge.
Speaker 2:But when I asked Matthew about that experience and he was more or less saying it was the most profound travel experience he's ever had and this is someone who has been staying in the most luxurious hotels around the world but he couldn't believe and he was describing to me that there's a day of the week where everyone has to clean up, like it is so clean. Eventually get to this in our conversation is that people will eventually feel comfortable traveling to Africa independently, or at least be able to book a flight to Rwanda and stay in a hotel and then decide, like traveling to Europe, what am I going to do today? Am I going to book a day tour? Am I going to go and see the gorillas? Like it's, like you know, and so I think it will obviously and your guidance on this is gonna be helpful that the travel experience to Africa will evolve in the next 10 or 20 years 100%, 100%, and I think you actually made a very important point.
Speaker 1:I think you know, as we talk about the evolution of travel, I think people are making different choices around how they travel and where they travel to. Now, traditionally, people would think of a travel vacation. Now I think people are prioritizing those meaningful bucket list experiences because what we've learnt very recently in the post-COVID world putting things off for another day is no guarantee.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, so tell us that. So, yeah, I'd love to hear your views on why, because, since you speak to all these customers and you have such a finger on the pulse of what's happening with safaris, what do you think has caused the rise in popularity with safaris? Obviously, the change in demographics is one thing, more luxury travel, so I mean, there's a few things that are going in the favor of safaris. But I think what you're pointing out is, and what you and I have both been describing, which is what I came to experience once I had the trip and I wanted to go back, and it is a place that, when I speak to Pete Raleigh, who's a very good friend I worked in the travel industry for 20 years.
Speaker 2:I worked with him at G adventures. He's based in Melbourne, australia. He spent months and months in Africa and it's his favorite destination by far and people that are more experienced in travel it's just you just continue to hear how much they love traveling to various parts of Africa and how meaningful it is. So, yeah, tell us, if you wouldn't mind, what you think are some of the things that are driving it and how it's changed the experience. So I'm assuming that's also and you were talking to this a little bit at the beginning about the types of experiences that people are seeking, like how the offerings that you, african Travel catering to those customers. How has that evolved as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, we have seen, definitely, safari travel evolving with several key trends, influenced, I think, by the shifting traveler demographics and, you know, new interests. The one thing that we have been seeing, certainly this year and certainly in the last two years, the rise of private and exclusive safaris. People often ask me you know what is your definition of luxury? And I don't equate that to price, I equate that to exclusivity. That's the new luxury that we are seeing and it just so happens that people are prepared to pay for it. People want to travel to destinations that are less crowded and they want to do that in a very intimate and meaningful way. So luxury meeting that exclusivity, but also luxury meeting sustainability.
Speaker 1:Clients prefer supporting brands that have a proven track record with regards to sustainability. So supporting local communities and wildlife conservations is really, really important, which is why I'm so proud to be part of a company that lives and breathes Make Travel Matter experiences, and these are unique experiences that are vetted to give back in good, meaningful ways to the places and the people that we meet and visit. The other thing that we also are beginning to see, in our business particularly, is this need for wellness and more of a mindful safari travel experience. I know anyone who is a parent. I am a parent of an almost 13-year-old and that comes with its own sorts of challenges which I thought dealing with big five was a dangerous affair.
Speaker 1:This is another thing, son, go with me to Africa and have a digital detox us as a family where we can disconnect from the everyday technology and be fully immersed not only in the nature and the experiences, but with one another. For sure, this is gaining popularity, especially around burnt out people, whether that is work related or just life related, and so those experiences are shifting how people are now looking for different experiences, and so the off the grid experiences are becoming way more popular.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Intimate experiences are definitely the experiences that most people want and prepare to pay for. But the third thing I also want to highlight is people are not looking for an off-the-shelf kind of experience. Off-the-shelf kind of experience. They are looking for that experience that is uniquely designed to their interests and their travel style. My mother-in-law I love her, I love traveling with her, but if I took her on a five-day or more safari experience, she's going to be like, okay, I've seen a zebra now a thousand times, I'm ready to see something else. So I know that while we're going to do safari with her, it's not going to be a 10-day safari. And so, as we travel with a multi-generational family, everyone's needs is so different and unique, and that's why tailor-making experiences are so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you hit on all the major trends there, sherwin. I mean from sustainability, ecotourism, luxury, multi-generational travel and the uniqueness that for honeymooners the idea that you can because you even mentioned about intimate, which is actually one of the themes we have in this is sexual wellness like that actually is. Uh, within wellness there's all these other concepts that for honeymoon to be able to sleep out under the stars and be able to have that intimate experience like there's. There's so much to offer for everyone. So you hit on all the biggest trends. We'll be right back. Are you looking for ways to grow your travel business through paid media and optimized SEO? Then you have to check out our friends at Propeleccom. They are the leading digital agency for growth in travel and tourism. Propelec offers bold digital marketing strategies to ensure your travel company's success. They have a remarkable methodology that has actually been implemented by TravelAIcom, and they are a leading SEO agency globally and offer a range of resources a podcast of their own, a blog on their website, propelliccom that's P-R-O-P-E-L-L-I-Ccom. And don't forget to mention Travel Trends for your free marketing audit. Did you know that over 20% of people who purchase a ticket will upgrade to a refundable option when given the choice. By offering Refund Protect, you make it easy for your customers to protect their ticket purchase against emergency circumstances like illness, injury, accidents and more, whether you're an airline, hotel group, tour operator, ticketing platform, ota or transport solution. When you partner with Protect Group, your customers get peace of mind and you generate extra revenue. With a Trustpilot score of 4.8 stars and over 31,000 reviews, they treat your customers as their own, earning the highest customer ratings in the industry. To find out more, check out Protect Group at protectgroup. That's protectgroup.
Speaker 2:Attention travel operators, destination management companies and accommodation providers. Managing payments doesn't have to be a source of stress. Meet Flywire, the modern payments platform built specifically for the unique needs of the travel industry. With Flywire, you can collect payments from travelers worldwide with ease, enjoy faster payouts in your preferred currency, reduce payment fees and offer your preferred currency. Reduce payment fees and offer your guests flexible, localized payment options they're familiar with. Not only does Flywire simplify your operations, but it also helps elevate your guest experience and boost your bottom line. That means you can stop worrying about payments and focus on what you do best creating unforgettable travel experiences. Discover how Flywire can help your business save time, save money and deliver truly seamless transactions.
Speaker 2:Visit flywirecom slash travel trends to learn more. That's flywirecom slash travel trends. And now back to the show. One thing I wanted to ask you is what are some of the emerging destinations for camps or retreats? Because I think you hit on something really important is that people are already looking. They're saying that's great South Africa, that's great Kenya and Tanzania, but what about the Okavango Delta in Botswana or one of these other new camps? So yeah, what are you seeing as?
Speaker 1:some of the emerging destinations, and then there are destinations within popular destinations that are lesser known, that are also growing in popularity. So you spoke about Botswana. Botswana is a remarkable destination, and you just spoke about wellness and well-being, and well-being Botswana is the latest country on the African continent that has now recognized same-sex marriage, and I mention that because people don't often equate Africa as being necessarily inclusive, so Botswana was always on the forefront of sustainability, long before sustainability was a buzzword. The government has limited the size of camps in Botswana that you would see in East Africa or in South Africa, because it was always built on the promise that sustainability was the cornerstone of their success, and so there are fewer people on safari in Botswana. The second reason why I love Botswana is the fact that it is a destination that offers water and land experiences, so it's a really cool place. Fun fact, botswana is home to the second largest mammal migration on Earth, and it's the zebra migration. It happens as all the zebra across different parts of Botswana migrate to the Mahadi Hadipans, and the Mahadi Hadipans is a unique area because of the alkaline and salt in that particular region, so great.
Speaker 1:The second country that I would leave you with is Namibia. Namibia is a fascinating destination. Imagine the world's oldest desert. And as you go on these desert safaris, all of a sudden you discover that there is a shipwreck in the middle of the desert, and not just one, but multiple. And it's a head-scratching moment. Right, because now you're like what has actually happened. And that's when the story begins, because that part of the desert was once ocean and the. The desert has reclaimed ocean and there's a unique lodge in Namibia called Shipwreck Lodge.
Speaker 2:No kidding, that's very cool.
Speaker 1:It is a lodge built on the design of shipwrecks. What's also really cool about this is you get to go and visit ancient tribes that have been living in this part of the world for more than a hundred years the Himba tribe and when you meet them, there's a real, obvious difference, because the color of their skin has a different hue, and then you quickly realize that the hue that they have is actually the soil which they use as protection against heat and against mosquito or insect bites. Fascinating destination Namibia has to be on your list.
Speaker 1:If you're looking for something to do.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Botswana was, now Namibia is, so I'm super inspired from this conversation. My father-in-law is actually looking to go to Africa next, and so he's looking to do Kenya and Tanzania, and this is where I definitely am going to encourage many more family members and clearly you'll be hearing from me to get them booked, but let's give them some practical tips. So, now that we have given them kind of a good overview of the background of safaris and the various destinations within Africa to be able to travel to and, obviously, all the big trends, when someone's actually trying to plan their safari, what are the things that you would, I guess the key elements that you want them to take into consideration? Obviously, the provider is important, but wildlife accommodations, yeah. Tell us what advice you would try and give someone on choosing a safari and choosing a provider.
Speaker 1:Okay so choosing a safari, first make a list of what your must-haves that you need in an itinerary. These are the non-negotiables. You need to know what they are for yourself, your traveling companion or companions, because that matters is different and the experience that you are looking for may not be available in that specific destination. And the third thing that I would ask you to consider is what time of year do you want to travel?
Speaker 2:Very important, yes of year.
Speaker 1:do you want to travel? Very important. Yes, because the time of year also dictates what experiences you are going to find as part of the itinerary, so make those your top three.
Speaker 2:Those are great. Yeah, those are excellent. And I specifically remember Lucille saying to me well, when do you want to go? And then we were looking back at the map again to figure out and she knew right away. But that is a critical decision maker, because the migrations obviously is one big decision of why people go to certain destinations. So, yes, those are great.
Speaker 2:So those are three to make a decision on a safari and then when it comes to actually selecting someone to go with, because I'm sure when you type in African safari, the good thing is your brand comes up because that is in the name 100%. But it is difficult for consumers out there to figure out who to travel with. So, yeah, I know, obviously many people will likely choose African travel as a result of our conversation, or even travel advisors too. That's obviously a big part of our audience. This is the number one B2B travel podcast.
Speaker 2:I know a lot of our conversation has been about travel experiences and certainly that was my intention, because I know a lot of travel advisors have not been to Africa and they'd be better positioned to sell it if they've been. They would want to and I know a big part of African Travel's business is B2B. You work with Virtuoso. We saw each other there recently and so, yeah, when it comes to choosing a provider, to make sure that someone doesn't make the wrong decision, or what would be some of the suggestions for you to point them in the right direction?
Speaker 1:For me, there are top three reasons as well. First of all, choose a provider that offers you the protection under your regional legislation regional legislation. You don't want to book or use a provider in a foreign country because you would have to navigate foreign currencies, etc. So that's one thing. The second thing is choose a provider that has a proven track record with regards to sustainability or expertise in the destination. It's important because, should something happen during that travel journey, you want to know that you are with a provider that has the resources to take care of end-to-end experiences. And then, thirdly, choose a provider that can offer experiences beyond the normal, just safari experience. You want to be able to have an option for diversity of experiences and also have options to see different parts of the destination. That allows the itinerary to be more meaningful and impactful. So those would be the top three things that I would have you consider.
Speaker 2:Super helpful. Thank you for that, sherwin, and I just have a couple last questions for you, and the one I'm also keen to ask you just given you are a visionary in this space, is truly how you see it evolving in the next, let's say, five to 10 years. And you've hit on a lot of good points already, the digital detox being a great aspect, with your um, with your son, like going on a family trip like that. It's one of my pet peeves. I was asked on a podcast recently what my main pet peeve is seeing a family when they're all on their phones on their holiday. It's just like it's infuriating, it's um, even though it's not your family. It's just like um be in the moment, um, but yeah, what? How do you so?
Speaker 2:Technology is one of the things that often comes up in AI, but this is almost like the antithesis of that. This is going back to our roots. So, yeah, how do you see it evolving? Or even feel free, what do you think is going to stay the same, and that's a good thing. So, yeah, what does the future of safari travel look like to you?
Speaker 1:I think safari will always be an interest because of the wildlife experience, and so I don't see changes happening there.
Speaker 1:The only thing that I do see is that clients are now wanting to go beyond the veil of the game-driving experience.
Speaker 1:They want to be actively involved in the conserving or the conservation of wildlife, and so there are experiences that clients can pay for that allows them to be part of animal tracking research projects while they are part of the game drive.
Speaker 1:But there are also opportunities for people to get involved in anti-poaching initiatives. Top tip when you are on safari, turn off your GPS tracking on your digital device, because when you post pictures on social media, the embedded locations are not part of that post, because poachers will search the web for latest posts to come under the cover of darkness and do those animals harm. So people are looking for ways to support conservation efforts as part of the experience. What we are seeing from a lodge perspective more and more our properties are going off-grid. They want to also introduce quieter, eco-friendly game drive experiences so that they don't disturb the wildlife, but they also increase the client's wildlife experience. A great experience that people could even think about is also working with the anti-poaching teams to help collar and track rhinos or other big prey. So that's where I see the biggest trend going in the next near future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, thank you for that. And I'm really glad you mentioned conservation as a good topic to finish off on, because, as we look at 2025, the number of travelers we had globally in 2024 was about 400 million and the expectation by 2050, it's going to be 800 million, and so our industry is going to double. And how can we accommodate for that? And in many ways, that's a positive thing because that's a rising middle class, it's more people having the opportunity to travel, which is a good thing, but conservation has never been more important and it's only going to continue because, as people have had those experiences, you need to protect them for future generations.
Speaker 2:So, um, and the, the rhino when you highlight that, I think it's one of those things. It's almost shocking because it's something I think we've heard about for so long, but it's just remarkable that there's still so much more needs to be done to address this issue and protect the rhinos and like so, uh, so, yeah, conservation and um, uh, I love that you talked about off the grid and it's just like a and this I guess it's really exciting to track and follow, uh, where this is headed. And um, and I'm already looking forward to our next conversation. So, um, I just I wanted to say not only thank you for joining me for this conversation, but thank you for your ongoing friendship. I adore you and the whole team and I always look forward to seeing you.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate making the time for this, but let's let all of our listeners know how they can find out more information. And again, this could be consumers that might want to book with African Travel, but many of our listeners, of course, are travel agents that will all of a sudden go. Wait a second, I should be booking with African Travel. So feel free to address both audiences where they should connect with you or follow up with African Travel.
Speaker 1:First thing I would say is find a travel advisor, because a travel advisor will be a great resource for you beyond Africa, to all the places that you dream of. And if you want to find us, you can visit us at africantravelinccom. That is our website and all of our contact details are there.
Speaker 2:That's great, and I remember that site very well because obviously we worked on that together, and it's still a source of pride and joy that that site looks as good as it does, and so, yeah, I definitely encourage everyone to check out African Travel Inc. That was the important part of the dot com. But, yeah, no, thank you again, sherwin. I wish you and the team every success in the year ahead and I look forward to seeing you again in the very near future. So thanks again for joining us on Travel Trends.
Speaker 1:Thank you Dan.
Speaker 2:You're the best. Thanks so much for joining us on the latest episode of Travel Trends. I hope you enjoyed the first episode of our deep dive into African safaris with Sherwin Banda from African Travel. He was certainly such an inspiring storyteller. I think this episode is going to get a lot of interest, and I just wanted to encourage anyone that was inspired by this to post your comments on any of the social channels or wherever you found this podcast. Feel free to write a review on Spotify or Apple, or just comment where you found it. We'd love to see that and be able to share that back with Sherwin and the team.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, we just want to acknowledge Cloud Safaris for sponsoring this series. Josh and the team are an extraordinary group of not only travel agents but engineers. It's rare you have that combination of those two talents, but, as I mentioned in the beginning, his family's been in this business for 50 years and he and his team are very focused on working with travel agents, which is one of our biggest audiences for the show. So I encourage you to learn more about their technology and how they can make it easier and more seamless for you, but book trips that will still be very highly personalized for your guests. So check out more information at cloud safariscom.
Speaker 2:And then, don't forget, we post clips and highlights of all of our episodes on our social channels, which is LinkedIn, youtube and Instagram at travel trends podcast, so check us out there. And also we send a monthly newsletter which you can register for at TravelTrendsPodcastcom. Our next episode will feature Ian from Wilderness Travel, and we've got a few more excellent episodes on safaris to come. And then we're also releasing, throughout 2025, spotlight highlights from events from destinations and startups. So make sure that you are subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when new episodes go live. Until next time, safe travels.
