Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
From Africa to the World: Luxury Safari Camps Redefining Conservation and Sustainability with Wilderness
Our 2nd Safari Series episode takes you deep into the stunning world of African safaris with the expert insights of Iain McConachie from Wilderness. With years of experience curating luxurious and meaningful safari adventures, Iain uncovers the powerful synergy between luxury, wildlife, and community-driven conservation efforts.
We’ll explore how Wilderness has seamlessly evolved safari experiences by blending ecotourism with impactful practices that uplift local communities and protect the natural environment. From unforgettable wildlife encounters to the unexpected cultural gems, this conversation captures what makes a safari truly extraordinary.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- An insider look at Wilderness’ heritage and purpose
- How ecotourism is expanding beyond Africa’s landscapes
- Unique safari activities you might not expect beyond game drives
- The fusion of high-end luxury with sustainable travel practices
- The vital role of local communities in preserving wildlife
- Expert tips to help first-time safari travelers make the most of their trip
- The exciting future of safaris, focusing on meaningful impact
- Ways to enrich your safari by engaging in community-based projects and experiences
Whether you’re curating trips for clients or simply dreaming of your next adventure, this episode is packed with inspiration and practical advice to fuel your passion for travel. Don’t miss the insights that could redefine your idea of a safari!
👉 Listen to rom Africa to the World: Luxury Safari Camps Redefining Conservation and Sustainability Now
🔥 Season 5 Title Sponsors: TravelAI, Stay22, Propellic, Flight Centre, Collette, Flywire, Traveltek and Protect Group
Season 5 Launched Jan 15th. New Episodes Every Weds! Check out our first 4 Seasons.
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The most memorable part was we were sitting on the sort of deck of our room overlooking the river, and a young male elephant came by, literally walked, you know, right in front of our deck and Beth was a bit like oh, is this okay? I said yeah, it's fine, they know the elephants are, they know the camp. And then its trunk came out and it sort of sniffed into it, you know, towards our faces, and sniffed us to kind of identify, you know, okay, who are these two people?
Speaker 2:sniffed into it, you know towards our faces and sniffed us to kind of identify. You know, okay, what are these two people. Hello everyone, and welcome to travel trends, season five, episode eight. This is your host, dan christian, and I'm thrilled to continue our conversation on safaris. This is our second installment. Today we're going to be speaking to ian mcconaghy, who runs wilderness that's formerly wilderness safaris, but now Wilderness as they plan to expand globally, and we'll talk about that in great detail in our conversation today, but before we do, I just wanted to acknowledge Sherwin Banda from African Travel, who joined us for that first episode. I still have goosebumps from him describing the experience on a safari and we actually rushed to get those videos up on our Instagram and YouTube channels so you can see him describe that experience for yourself. And also I encourage those of you who haven't listened to it definitely check out that episode after you listen to Wilderness. This is a equally fantastic discussion, but I just wanted to highlight and thank Sherwin again for joining us for that opening discussion. I also wanted to acknowledge Cloud Safaris, who has been our sponsor for this series Josh and his team of developers, slash agents. They're building an AI-led platform for B2B partners to make it much more efficient for them to book African safaris. They're started in East Africa. They're gonna expand quickly. It's a very smart and talented team and, interestingly, his uncle is actually gonna be on our next episode because it's been a family business for over 50 years and Cliff is based tanzania and runs savannah tours. So I thought it'd actually be great to get perspectives from south africa, from botswana, and from east africa, with cliff joining us from tanzania and I'm actually going to be speaking to him shortly from berlin, where I am now. But just for those of you that want to find out more information, check out cloud safariscom and definitely get in touch with Josh and the team if you're interested in selling African safaris and learning more about their technology.
Speaker 2:Now the travel schedule has been incredible. Over the last few weeks. I was in Monaco at the Forbes travel guide the summit recording our season two of our special hospitality series, and what a perfect venue for luxury and hospitality. I stayed at the Fairmont and we had a extraordinary few days there interviewing 10 highly regarded guests that are gonna be part of this Leaders Behind the Stars series, where you're gonna get a much better understanding of how these incredible hotels achieve their five star status. I actually spoke to a number of them that achieved it in their first year. I spoke to a number of people that have multiple five stars, but of course, forbes travel guide rates the hotels, they rate the spas and they rate the restaurants. They're also into the cruise space and they also work with travel agencies as well.
Speaker 2:So we're going to have a special highlight episode to finish off that series. But there's going to be 10 parts, launching on Thursday, march the 13th, and then one episode a week for the next 10 weeks. And then here I am in Berlin just about to experience ITB for the first time and I'm doing a session on hidden gems and I'll look forward to bringing you highlights and I'll be sharing on the social channels to check out at DC trips and at travel trends podcast on Instagram for highlights from this event. And then the travels continue. I absolutely love traveling, I love this industry and I have the privilege to be invited and to speak at a number of events. This year we've updated our travel trends podcastcom events page to highlight all of the events I'll be at and to speak at a number of events. This year We've updated our TravelTrendsPodcastcom events page to highlight all of the events I'll be at, and I definitely encourage you not only check it out, but if you're going to be at any of these events, please reach out to me. I would love to meet you there and, wherever possible, I'll look to incorporate you on a future Travel Trends episode.
Speaker 2:Next up is going to be the Educational Travel Consortium Conference in Mobile, alabama, and then I'm going to be in Miami for the Aviation Festival and then headed to Denver for the Adventure, travel and Trade Association Conference, which I'll also be back later this year in Patagonia. But right after that I'm going to be headed to Focusrite Europe for the first time, which I couldn't be more excited about because, as all of our listeners know, I'm a huge fan of Focusrite. It's one of my favorite industry conferences. I've attended for more than 10 years in the US, but I've never been to Europe, and so Pete Gene and the team kindly invited Travel Trends to be there, so we're going to be recording podcasts at the event, and on top of that, they are offering our Travel Trends listeners a special 100 euros off your ticket of whatever is the prevailing price. It's a Travel Trends 25 is the code, but there's actually a dynamic link that you need to check out on our website to be able to access that offer. We actually just put this out in our newsletter that went out last week, so make sure you're registered to receive our monthly newsletter, traveltrendspodcastcom. We'll be sure to put it in the next edition as well, and we look forward to many of you joining us there. Now the events will continue. I'm going to be at the arrival event later this year in october in washington and again, if you're going to any of these events, definitely reach out. I look forward to meeting so many of you in person.
Speaker 2:I love the fact that we now have listeners in 125 countries, and today on the plane, when I was flying from Nice to Berlin, the gentleman next to me and this is a first for me, but the gentleman next to me after we got up in the air turned to me and said are you, dan Christian? And I couldn't believe what I was hearing because the guy was an unfamiliar face. And it turns out that he was actually at our World Travel Market Conference talk and he really enjoyed it and he just wanted to tell me how much he benefited from that discussion. Sure enough, we spoke for the next hour and a half on the flight, and I just wanted to recognize Eduardo, who I'm going to get some more time with at ITB in the next few days. So I look forward to getting more time with you, eduardo. And it just shows you just how much of this industry we now reach and connect with, both with the podcast and the events that we're going to. So that was a pretty cool moment for me and I know it was for our team as well. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2:Now back to the show. Now let's get into today's conversation and continue this African safari theme. So today we're speaking to Ian McConaghy, who is actually based in Colorado, and you're going to find out about his accent very quickly. But when you learn more about wilderness and for those of you who are already on the website wildernessdestinationscom, you'll see these extraordinary images from the camps they run. I mean, they started in Botswana, but they've expanded to Zimbabwe and to Zambia and even to Rwanda now, and it's an extraordinary company that has the most luxurious experiences, and we talk about that.
Speaker 2:How do we manage luxury with conservation? And there's some really fascinating ways that they develop and work with the local communities, and so it addresses many of the questions that I had, and, I'm sure, many of our listeners as well. Whether you're a travel agent looking to book your clients on a safari, I think you're going to get a ton of value from this conversation. Or if you're just looking to go on an African safari yourself, I think you're going to learn a lot from this conversation. So, on that note, let me welcome Ian to the conversation today. Ian, it's so great to have you on Travel Trends. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me Excited to be here and yeah, appreciate the invitation.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I was keen to speak to you and also specifically wilderness, because you have a really interesting backstory in Africa and the safari space, but I know you've expanded outside of that in recent years, so tell us a little bit about the company itself. I want to talk about your background as well, but set the stage for all of our listeners on who Wilderness is and what you guys do, sure.
Speaker 1:So Wilderness, we've been around for just over 40 years, so 1983 is when we started. So we've got a pretty long history in the sort of, I guess, the safari industry and the safari game and we've grown from our sort of humble beginnings in Botswana, in the Okavango Delta that's where it all kicked off and we're now across eight countries in Africa, eastern and Southern Africa as the kind of areas we're talking about, those sort of traditional areas that people think about when they think about safari and you know, and cultural parts do as well, these big, beautiful landscapes and ecosystems. And that's very much about you know what wilderness is about. We we did recently, I think for some listeners they may think, oh, are you wilderness safaris?
Speaker 1:And and yes, we were called wilderness safaris until a couple of years ago um, we are successful sort of eco-tourism model which I'm sure we'll get into in a lot more detail as the podcast goes on is we're looking to take that abroad and take that you know, other places in the world and that's because you know, local governments, communities see the way we've done things and the success there and other operators have done it as well. And so safaris the word has such a connotation with Africa. So safaris the word has such a connotation with Africa we decided when we rebranded that actually we would just become wilderness and that gives a more sort of global feel rather than being specific to Africa. So still very much African focus at the moment. More to come, hopefully in the next year or two.
Speaker 1:We're kind of yet to make any big formal announcements, but there's no secret that we are looking in other parts of the world and, to take this kind of say, successful ecotourism model elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. That's certainly how I knew your brand over many years and Wilderness Safaris. And when I saw we got a chance to meet several months ago in Vegas at the Virtuoso Conference and I was certainly impressed with you and the team and we had a nice discussion there. So I wanted you to be a part of this series because I got to understand a bit more about your business and how it's grown and evolved. And you guys were giving me your business cards and saying, yeah, no, we're Wilderness. I'm like, are you guys Wilderness Safaris? Yeah, we used to be Wilderness Safaris.
Speaker 2:But let's talk about your background and then we'll get back into Wilderness, because you have been in the travel industry for many years. You worked at Audley Travel, you were at Jakata, so you've been with Wilderness now for a couple of years. Tell us a little bit about how you got into this space, because you also have a unique accent. I think our listeners need to help. I think you'll need to help them work it out. Is it Scottish, is it English, is it American, is it South African? So, yeah, tell everyone a little bit about your personal background, your accent and also how you got into the tourism space.
Speaker 1:Sure, well, the accents probably the quickest and easiest one to explain. I was fortunate as a child to live, having been born in England, lived in the States and then also actually lived in Geneva, switzerland, where there's a very multicultural background, but I had an American accent. Then we moved back to England and I kind of got more of an English accent and then my parents are from Scotland, so we went back to Scotland when I was 14. And so all three kind of come together and just depending on where I am or who I'm speaking to, I think impacts subconsciously what comes out more. If I'm back in Scotland, most people probably wouldn't understand what I was saying because that Scottish bro comes out.
Speaker 1:So, and that's for me personally, that experience traveling abroad and getting to live abroad always made travel an interesting option for me and, as you say, I worked for a few travel agencies before joining Wilderness. Actually, before that was a corporate lawyer. I got into law school and trained as a lawyer in London and then I was lucky enough to go gorilla trekking and realized that actually my passion for wildlife and conservation could be combined with my other passion, travel, and I just had that kind of classic epiphany of well, let's go and actually follow what you're interested in. And that's where I then joined Oddly Travel, specialized in Africa there specifically Namibia, zimbabwe and Botswana. And then I joined Jakarta Travel, which is part of Wilderness and branched out and covered all of eastern and southern Africa as an agent. So I got to learn all the logistics, all the camps, all the locations and wilderness throughout stood out for me and it was a long, a long-held ambition to work for them.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, joined joined two years ago and then loving it that's fantastic and it is such a an impressive brand that I think that many travelers or people work in the travel industry have a strong affinity for, especially given the number of camps that you operate. And that's sort of how I knew wilderness safaris over the years being in the industry, and I'm glad you abandoned the law industry to pursue your passion and being in travel. So it's helpful for us and all of our listeners because you have unique knowledge about the continent and some of the places you've spent time. So let's get into that now, because you have an expertise in safaris, even though you work for a company. Now that is more than safaris, but let's talk about the safaris and where Wilderness started. So give us a bit more context to the camps and the destinations that you operate and the types of trips that you have created over the years have created over the years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, as I say, we started in Botswana 40 years ago in the Okavango Delta, and that's kind of, in many ways, still home base. Most of our camps are in the Okavango Delta, the Nianti region, but we now operate some of the leading camps in Namibia, zimbabwe, zambia, rwanda, kenya and Tanzania. And I think a key thing for wilderness and what's been our success and I'm sure you know I wasn't there 40 years ago so I can't say for sure, but it was that early first mover, you know we identified these areas that were incredible wildlife viewing areas and we decided to stick with that and that's kind of really what's held us in good stead and made our camp special. And I'll talk about the camps themselves in a second. But what's really first and foremost of importance to us is what's outside the camp, these. What's really first and foremost of importance to us is what's outside the camp these incredible, beautiful, amazing ecosystems that are often still pristine. And that's our mission, you know, is to bring people to these areas to share them but to help protect them, and that's also working with the local communities, a big part we'll touch upon as well as our impact work. So what's really become a mainstay for wilderness is these big, pristine wild ecosystems that provide amazing wildlife experiences.
Speaker 1:And we say wildlife experience as a general term. Namibia it's a little bit different. The landscape plays a bigger role, so it's not so much about lots of animals there are still wildlife and animals there, but it's there. It's a kind of again that amazing ecosystem and natural habitat that you can explore and be blown away by. And then you add to that these incredible camps that we've developed and built over 40 years, and we literally started with a little basic tent 40 years ago and now we have some of the most you know, incredible, luxurious camps. But it's still about where you're located. And even when you're in these kind of amazing camps that have, you know, got sometimes private plunge pools and a wine you know wine cellar, etc. We still want you to feel connected to what's outside the camp. It's an immersive experience. We want you to still feel like you're on safari, even though you've got that high level of comfort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's interesting for me is that camp experience, because one of the things I'm keen to know is that what ultimately makes a wilderness safari unique from other considerations that might be out there. We had my good friend, sherwin Banda from African Travel joined us for the first episode of the series and it was a great interview as well, and he was discussing some of the key attributes about African Travel being one of the largest in the US. But they don't operate their own camps. Obviously, they connect with you to local providers, but in your instance, this is where you guys actually started with own camps. Obviously, they connect with you to local providers, but in your instance, this is where you guys actually started with the camps, so you control the experience of the actual safari. So tell us a bit more about what you see as really unique. I guess part of the reason you decided to join the company or take on this role of what are the real key factors that make wilderness such a unique safari experience, as I mentioned the location of the camp first and foremost.
Speaker 1:It's about being in these areas where often you're away from other tourists and visitors. So we don't tend to be in national parks where there's lots of people around and that can diminish the experience. So I'd say it's that immersive experience of being in the wild. It's a camp location first and foremost. So say it's that immersive experience of being in the wild, a camp location first and foremost. And then the camps themselves are some of the best camps in Africa in terms of the you know what you call it amenities or the facilities that they have.
Speaker 1:And where we maybe distinguish ourselves or look to sort of be different from some of our competitors is while you're still in that five, six star luxury, we still want you to feel connected to what's outside the camp. We don't want you to feel like you're in a lodge that could be anywhere in the world. So it's that balance of, yes, it's an amazing camp experience, but you're still feeling that wilderness and that wild and that ecosystem that's outside of you. And then the final point there I think to really emphasize, and the main reason I joined Wilderness was our impact work.
Speaker 1:I can say this, having been an agent who dealt with lots of operators, and there's lots of great work that is done across the industry, but wilderness is very much at the forefront, if not the leader, in this area. We have 30 members of staff, full-time, solely focused on what we call impact, and their job is, you know, it's not about selling or doing anything. It's about research, working with local communities, supporting local communities, local government, ngos and and the work that goes into protecting these areas. It's not just about you stick a camp in a wild area and great, you know it's going to get protected. No, you need to engage with the local people that are in these areas to ensure that there's all these other benefits and that they feel ownership of that area too. And then it makes it a success.
Speaker 2:We'll be right back that area too. And then it makes it. Makes it a success, we'll be right back. Have you dreamed of seeing the big five up close or immersing yourself in the culture and beauty of africa? With colette, your dream safari is closer than you think. Since 1993, colette has been crafting unforgettable safari experiences, ensuring every detail is expertly designed, from game drives and breathtaking water activities to meeting locals in their own communities.
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Speaker 2:And now back to the show, one of the things I do want to ask you I want to understand how the safari experience's evolved over the years. But I would like to just talk about conservation, because you've mentioned it a couple of times, so I want to dive into that specifically. So when you talk about impact and I think most of our listeners know our concerns about over-tourism and the need for sustainability, especially as we expect more and more travelers to take a safari in the next 10 or 20 years so talk to us about those conservation efforts and exactly what it is that you guys do to protect the landscape, the local culture and environment. And the thing I guess I'd be keen to know, ian, as you share that with us, is are you seeing that making a meaningful difference in terms of booking activity or people choosing wilderness or coming back to stay at one of your camps?
Speaker 1:To touch on that last point. Yes, certainly it's becoming a more prominent factor. You know we look at tourism in the future. People are gradually I think we all kind of thought I know there'd be like a switch turn. Everybody all of a sudden is going to go. I want to go with the most sustainable or green operator, and that's not always the case. People sometimes say they want that but they still want certain elements to their trip. They still want to have the experience they're going for. But certainly the industry is moving that way and it's becoming more and more prominent.
Speaker 1:I think from the safari perspective, safari is really interesting. It has evolved a lot. So we call it six. I refer to it as six star because we're getting what's a five star camp. And then somebody goes and adds a spa or a plunge pool in your room or has you know 800 bottles of wine. You're kind of like, well, that's now five-star, what becomes four-star? It's all very subjective.
Speaker 1:But when I talk about six-star it is the ability now for us camp operators to build and operate camps that have got some of these facilities that you would normally expect in a traditional hotel. It's no longer just a you know Meru tent that's got a bed, a drop toilet and that's your safari experience. There's everything in between that. You know six star. Down to entry level, you know two or three star, so it's a very sophisticated industry.
Speaker 1:And then where impact comes into that and I think where Wilderness does an excellent job is you don't need to sacrifice that impact, that sustainability, by going for six star.
Speaker 1:In fact, you can actually enhance it and increase it, because the value that you're bringing and by having fewer guests in a particular area means that you're having a less impactful stay on the environment but you're bringing in greater value greater value for the local community in terms of the actual dollars you're bringing in, greater value for us as a company and the work that we can then do engaging with those communities and supporting them, and a greater experience for the guest, because they're actually getting to go and see these beautiful wilderness areas without another 30 or 40 vehicles around them.
Speaker 1:And to put it into context, I often, when I'm talking to North American agents and clients is if you go bear trekking in Yosemite in August, it's beautiful and there's going to be lots of bears probably, but there's also a lot of people. It's just an easily accessible park and that, can some people say, diminishes it. Or you can go bear trekking in Alaska and you're probably not going to see nearly half as many people Beautiful landscape, still lots of bears, and so it's just, it's that kind of elevated wildlife experience that I'm talking about, which we focus on at Wilderness. That's our first and foremost aim.
Speaker 2:So when you mentioned the six star, that kind of that luxury experience, that's one of the things I'm keen to ask you, because I've had the privilege to be in Africa on two different safaris South Africa and then some of our listeners may have heard on our first episode I was talking about Kenya and Tanzania as well. There's so much more to Africa that I'm keen to explore, but certainly from those experiences I've had the privilege to stay in some luxurious places that I went on a plunge pool, and it was like it far exceeded my expectations of staying safari in Africa, and the food is extraordinary. The thing I'd love to ask you, though, is how do you balance the luxury with sustainability? I'm sure that has to be a tricky thing to navigate. So you know you have these clients that are coming there, and so some of the things that are luxurious are not necessarily the most sustainable. So how do you balance that as an organization without impact being such a big focus for the organization?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, excellent question. And we I mean we ourselves, wilderness have a very robust internal. We call it GEMS, which I forget what that acronym stands for, but it's an internal assessment that we have for all of our camps and we produce annual impact reports to track, to actually track, and then set goals. So we've actually got measurable targets. In terms of the actual practical stuff, there's a variety of ways. So a lot of our camps, particularly in Southern Africa, you know, namibia, botswana there's a lot of sun, so they're solar powered. There is a backup generator, but we use solar as a sort of first start starting point.
Speaker 1:We do a lot of water recycling and the use of gray water, whether that's, you know, for watering, you know, plants, vegetables, etc. We do that water treatment for reforestation projects. Then you can also use the water. There. We've got things like worm farms in some place and they're producing a very rich nutritious liquid that can then be used again in a reforesting project. Um, there's uh, let's see.
Speaker 1:And then you know, I guess the materials we use in the camp and there's again, this is the 40 years of experience come in are often, you know, natural woods.
Speaker 1:Um, we tend not to put in concrete foundations. So I would say for the majority, if not all, our camps, you can take the camp down and within 12 to 18 months you you'd never know it'd been there. So there's a lot of, I guess, technical elements that go into actually building and designing a camp, and over 40 years we've brought in these sort of impactful, sustainable methods that we use. And then there's the projects that we support as well in and around the camps in those areas with the communities, and that takes many forms, whether it's mitigating lion-cattle conflict, whether it's supporting farming techniques and protecting crops from elephants, and there's lots of cool, interesting ones which we can delve into if that's of interest. But yeah, the main overarching thing is it's not a one-size-fits-all. So what we do in Namibia differs, to say, what we do in Botswana slightly. There might be some common themes, for example solar, but even what we do within Namibia might vary from camp to camp, region to region in terms of the work that we're doing.
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk about those different regions, because actually I think that would be helpful to our audience and this is something that I was keen in each of these discussions to get leaders in this space their perspective on why you would travel to different regions within Africa.
Speaker 2:And I'd love to hear your view on that, especially because, as you mentioned, you guys started with Botswana and in this series we have an expert in South Africa, an expert in Tanzania, and so you have, again, a unique perspective and, having spent time in Namibia, so talk to us, if you wouldn't mind, just give us a bit of a high level overview of the safari experiences that you can have in those different areas, because obviously you have different migration patterns and um and different flora and fauna that you might expect to see. But yeah, if you're gonna, if someone's coming to you ian is saying I want to go to africa on a safari, obviously you're gonna start to have to kind of guide them in certain different directions. So give us a bit of an overview of how you do that and why you'd recommend certain destinations over others.
Speaker 1:Sure, I mean, the first question I would always start with is, when somebody asks me, like where should I go, I say to them kind of flip it back. I say to them when you're picturing being on holiday or safari in Africa, what are you picturing? Because there is actually many different aspects to Africa, and particularly within safari, and different landscapes and ecosystems. More often than not they are thinking about the open grasslands of East Africa, kenya and Tanzania, and that's usually a good starting point. They're certainly two of the most popular safari destinations and have been since the safari industry started 40 or 50 years ago. So in East Africa, kenya, Tanzania you have got the Masai Mara, serengeti, what we've often seen in the wildlife documentaries, the great migration you mentioned, happens primarily in the Serengeti but moves up to the Masai Mara and that's usually a good starting point and people are like, yes, that's of interest. But it's often important to kind of scratch below that and say, well, there can be a lot of vehicles, these are national parks, certain times of year are busy, there is seasonality that goes into it and that's when you kind of get into some of the other areas and I would say, along with the Serengeti and Masai Mara is kind of the A-list locations.
Speaker 1:The Okavango Delta in Botswana is the other one where you've got huge numbers of animals. It's a pristine ecosystem, quite a unique ecosystem, and it's different to the Gopin grasslands of East Africa. It's an inland delta. It floods for four or five months of the year, which draws in all this wildlife. It brings in water activities. So going out on boats and macauros if they want a bit of variety in their safari experience.
Speaker 1:Some people have heard about the gorillas, and so the gorillas is up in East Africa as well Rwanda and Uganda and that combines then well with Kenya and Tanzania. And then you know Zambia, zimbabwe are still just kind of in many ways overlooked because they're not as well known, but they're also excellent safari locations. And again, for the big five and the variety of animals that people want to go and see, they're actually they can be more off the beaten path. Less people say I actually want to get away from the crowds, I want to have less people around. Then again, zambia and Zimbabwe can give you something different and feel like a bit more off the beaten path.
Speaker 1:Namibia is like a different planet. I mean, it's so different to the rest of the countries. It's kind of odd. There's this country that's primarily a desert and so often that's a kind of second visit to Africa because there's not as much wildlife. So it's not what people are initially envisaging, but they hear about it and when they want to go back they're like, okay, I'm up for something different. And then maybe it provides that because it is so different compared to everywhere else.
Speaker 2:So Namibia obviously sounds like maybe it's one of those underrated or a second time you go, but is there any of those new destinations that or, I guess, where you have new camps, because Botswana, for me, is literally next on my list of destinations I'd love to go to in Africa, and so many people have told me that you have to go to Botswana, but, as you said, you know, east is Eastern Africa's often first, or South Africa, and that's exactly what I've done. So I guess what I'd like to know is like what would be an underrated safari destination or a new emerging destination? Rwanda seems to be one that stands out to me and obviously you mentioned you have a camp there as well. So, yeah, what? What would be the ones? For those people who are listening to this that have, like me, had a couple of experiences already, that would be a new, emerging or underrated safari destination. Yeah, I mean certainly yeah, going to rwanda.
Speaker 1:I mean, a lot of people know about the gorillas, but actually in Rwanda there's Akagera National Park, which is on the eastern side. That's a kind of traditional safari. It's had the Big Five reintroduced. It was decimated after the genocide and so we've got a camp there and we're actually building a new camp there later this year and you can then go and do like a trip in Rwanda, gorilla trekking and safari just in Rwanda. So that's, yeah, that can feel. I mean, Rwanda's very much kind of on the beaten path, but there's actually more to Rwanda that's coming online and it's an amazing country and it's certainly not as well known as Kenya and Tanzania. So Rwanda's definitely one to kind of think about if you're going back again and as you mentioned we've done South Africa, yeah, botswana and Zimbabwe, I would say, are two that you definitely want to think about, because it's always a tricky thing to describe.
Speaker 1:Like I said, africa is a wonderful place. It's a little bit more developed I guess is the easiest way to put it and so it's like that comparison between Yosemite and Alaska. When you go to Botswana and Zimbabwe, you do feel like you're getting away from the more well-trodden path. These are still very popular places to go, don't get me wrong. But they feel a little bit more exotic. They're less known. They haven't got the size and the GDP output that some Africa has. Botswana is probably about twice the size of France, with a population of, I think, two or three million people, so these are big open areas. When you're there you do feel like you're kind of getting off the map a little bit. So Botswana and Zimbabwe have got these excellent safari destinations to go to.
Speaker 2:No, that's great. I appreciate your perspective for someone like myself who's returning. I'm sure many people listening to this partly they're listening because they well many people listen who are travel advisors and they're keen to know more about the companies and the trips you offer. But there's also we're seeing more and more of our listeners that are direct consumers, and so one of the questions I wanted to ask for their benefit is for someone who has not been on a safari beyond the destinations would you kindly explain just in terms of what they should expect or what they should prepare for for their first safari? And I'll just give you one that I totally missed out on with my wife and kids is that we totally forgot to bring binoculars. Literally, everyone else has amazing binoculars and our guide couldn't believe we didn't have binoculars. I guess, yeah, like you, we were on a big extended trip anyway, so we just didn't have good binoculars. So what would be some of those tips? Or give some of our listeners some advice on what to expect for their first safari?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think as a first step certainly speaking to like an agent or an operator that can give you the knowledge on seasonality make sure you're going at the right time, because the seasons can vary. In Africa it's not hot and warm and idyllic all year round, and that dictates what you're going to maybe pack as well, and then, I think, to your point around, maybe some specifics to put in the luggage. Yeah, binoculars are very helpful. The wildlife isn't just sitting next to the vehicle all the time. It's great when it does, and that does happen. But sometimes it's off in the distance and if you are in a national park, like, say, the Serengeti, you're not allowed to go off road, so you need those binoculars to get a good view.
Speaker 1:In the mornings it can be cool. People think Africa is kind of hot all the time, but actually in the mornings in particular you first wake up, particularly in the peak season, which is actually their winter, particularly for southern Africa. It's still a very pleasant time to go. There's no rains, temperatures are cooler than the kind of hot their hot summer months, but in the mornings it can be, you know, almost freezing, so you want to have layers. It warms up quickly as soon as the sun pops up.
Speaker 1:You know the heat does come, but when you're first heading, heading out, um, you want to kind of make sure you've got, you know pants, you know a t-shirt, maybe a long sleeve t-shirt, a fleece or a jumper, and that way you can easily peel off as it does warm up. And then just a quick point on that. You know, this is again why, going to certain camps over others, um, and doing a bit of research and getting some advice there, you know most of our vehicles will have blankets, so people are caught out by the cold. We've got blankets ready, these kind of thick poncho style blankets that they can use in the mornings when it is cold. So you've got that there as well. But yeah, packing a few layers is usually a good idea, along with the binoculars and the camera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was another surprising thing, because everyone just associates Africa with being hot and it's clearly when early in the morning, because when you're doing your safaris and for those that have listened to our conversation with Sherwin, he was describing the first experience on a safari and it was quite captivating.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that I didn't realize obviously it makes sense You're going early in the morning, very early, or later in the day, because you're clearly trying to be watching the animals when they're most active. So I appreciate you sharing those tips and suggestions so that someone does make sure they show up. I think the most important one, certainly you just highlighted, is the time of the year, and I just wanted to ask you a bit more about that one, because and I'm sure it all depends on where you want to go, but in general traveling to the continent of Africa, are there certain times of the year that you would recommend and other times of the year you would suggest to avoid, whether it be the crowds or weather, because I think most people listening to this are going to be in North America or Europe or Australia. So, yeah, just tell us in general terms, if you wouldn't mind, what are the best times of the year to travel to Africa.
Speaker 1:Sure, as a general rule and this applies to both East and Southern Africa our summer months, you know, when our summer holidays are here in the Northern Hemisphere at least, is kind of that peak season. So June through to sort of September time, and that is a, I say, a good general rule of thumb. You're probably not going to go wrong traveling then, and the reason for that is, yeah, temperatures, say in Southern Africa, are that bit cooler but it's also dry. They don't get their rain. Then they actually get their rain in their summer months. There are the little pockets and nuances, as you say, depending on the countries you go to.
Speaker 1:So festive seasons are often popular, particularly in East Africa, because they again have a sort of very temperate climate sitting on the equator, and I think it's a nice time to go. It's not in their rainy season. Times to be mindful of with the weather are in East Africa. Their rainy season is late March, April, May, and so prices could be great and very low, but you're probably going to see quite a bit of rain. And then, similarly, in Southern Africa you'll find and it's a big part of the continent, so again, there are variations to it, but their summer months or then, and it can get very hot, so over 100 degrees Fahrenheit during the day, and there can be some rain, and so people have often tended to avoid going to the likes of Botswana, even to the Africa of a safari and Zimbabwe.
Speaker 1:Then my little tip if you're somebody that doesn't mind the heat likes, doesn't mind the heat like it, doesn't mind a dry heat, go early November, particularly to Southern Africa. Its prices are much lower At the tail end of the dry season. The wildlife is very concentrated around what remaining water sources there are. It's quieter in terms of visitors and again, in the night and during the day it does cool down. And so, yeah, you get an amazing safari experience in early November, lots of action and wildlife, and you just need to be comfortable with some dry heat during the day, because it could get up to 40 degrees celsius, over 100 degrees fahrenheit wow, yeah, that's a really good tip.
Speaker 2:I think so many travelers now are looking to travel in shoulder seasons, when they've just gotten used to destinations being overcrowded and overheated, and so climate change is a concern and unpredictable weather patterns, but this is where people are trying to figure out where to go when. So I wanted to ask you that I appreciate those tips. The other thing I wanted to ask you, given how much time you've spent on the continent, is some of those experiences you've had and if you can share with us some of those like wildlife encounters or some of those like particularly memorable moments I'll just very, very quickly share. This isn't a much tamer example, but we went with our two kids uh, east africa. They were both 12, they're twins, and the guide kindly gave my son his binoculars and this was like on the first day of this uh outing and we quickly set upon a lion chasing a zebra and he he recognized right away what was about to transpire and so he got my son all set up to watch the lion attack the zebra and my son was like shocked, disturbed, like he couldn't be, like he.
Speaker 2:My my daughter still makes fun of my son for the face that he made because he was just. He was literally horrified At the time. He was upset, he sat down and he cried for a little while afterwards and it affected him quite profoundly because we drove up in the vehicle and watched the lion not only continue to suffocate the zebra, which again stuff that you know. That it was new for us. I didn't realize how they cover their nose and actually suffocate them rather than trying to bleed them out, and then they start eating them and it's like he wanted to go home. He had seen enough, but I think we kind of all needed to go through that. It was genuinely shocking. So that's something that clearly many people experience on a safari. But for us it still stands out as a memory and we still talk about it from time to time. But I'm sure you've got far more compelling ones than that. So would you mind, ian, sharing with us a couple of your big highlights on safaris?
Speaker 1:Sure, I mean, that was a good one. I mean, not many people do get to see a kill, certainly straight away. There are guests that want to see that action and we can definitely advise them where to go. I mean, for me my most memorable safari experience is when I actually took my wife on her first safari and we went to some wilderness camps up in Mana Pools in Zimbabwe and she loves elephants, she'd never seen an elephant before and we went in early November.
Speaker 1:So that time of year I was recommending, and because it was such a dry time, everything's drawn to the Zambezi River, which Manapool sits on, and it's got big floodplains and so you can see these big herds of elephant. They literally wandered through camp and we'd been out. We'd arrived on the first day day we'd seen some lion trying to hunt above some buffalo, but they were juvenile lions so they couldn't quite do it. So the buffalo were like pushing the the lions off. And it was amazing because Beth was thinking, well, don't the lions always win? And I was like, no, they don't. Actually it was so fascinating when somebody's seeing stuff for the first time and kind of realizing that it's things are on a knife edge for wildlife when they're there. But the most memorable part was we were sitting on the sort of deck of our room overlooking the river, and a young male elephant came by, literally walked, you know, right in front of our deck and Beth was a bit like oh, is this okay?
Speaker 1:I said yeah, it's fine, they know the elephants are, they know the camp. And then its trunk came out and it sort of sniffed into it, you know, towards our faces, and sniffed us to kind of identify you know. Okay, what are these two people here? And I said to Beth well, let's move back, cause I think what he wants are the seed pods on the roof of the deck. And sure enough, we just backed up a few feet, stood by the door of our tent and he actually got up onto the deck and his trunk and I've got a little video of it and with his trunk, was sort of feeling up and poking through and and again. A bit like and again a bit like. You saw your son's face, probably slightly different to my wife's face because she was just grinning ear to ear. She had this amazing experience with an elephant right there, feet away we weren't even out in a vehicle just in the camp, and it was so memorable. Our daughter's middle name is actually Mana now.
Speaker 1:I wanted her to be called Mana as her first name, but my wife said… oh, that's sweet. Yeah, so her middle name's Mana, after Mana Pools, where we had our first safari experience together. So that's a special place. Mana Pools is one of these national parks that's not as well known as the others, but can still provide an amazing safari experience.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, a lot of it's to do with wildlife being close, and that's the key thing, I think as well, from both wilderness but also people that are listening and thinking. Well, you know which camps do I choose, and choosing the right camp and going with the right operator allows you to get to these wild places but be close to the wildlife safely, and to do it in a way that gives you these kind of, say, these elevated wildlife encounters, rather than just sort of sitting in a vehicle in a national park with 40 vehicles surrounding a rhino or a lion. You can be sitting in camp and the wildlife is literally just walking right in front of you and it's incredible to think that you're just sitting there and these places exist and animals are moving that freely and wildly. It's a very special feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, my daughter would still sing the Circle of Life song to my son every time I took on a whole new meeting after that moment.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it stayed with us, but it really was as you described. I mean, I think I was saying this to Sherwin and Lucille, who ran Lion World for many years and another major figure in the industry. She was one of the main reasons I traveled to Africa and she highlighted to me that you know, wait till you just experience a day in the bush, and it's like the sights and smells, like everything, and it really is quite profound. This is something for me that I was like it's written on our DNA, like it just you're taken back and it's something to be experienced and even if someone tells you that it's not until you get there yourself that you actually have that experience, tells you that it's not until you get there yourself that you actually have that experience. So I think it's very much a journey that everyone needs to go on. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2:And now back to the show. A few things that you mentioned. I wanted to pick up on that. I really found interesting and one of them was about the local communities and so clearly we're often thinking of sustainability efforts as regards to the animals and the wildlife and clearly that's a challenge unto itself and I'm sure you have other challenges around. You know poachers, but I actually just wanted to ask about the local communities. You mentioned the Maasai Mara. I actually just wanted to ask about the local communities. You mentioned the Maasai Mara. How do you actually make sure that you are supporting local communities and finding the best ways You're building out these camps that you know there's a role for them to play, there's opportunities for them. How do you? That's something I'm not very familiar with. So tell us a little bit about that, because I know on people's holidays, connecting with other people is such an important part. Wildlife is obviously the main driver, but yeah, tell us how you work with local communities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the main thing to say is it takes many different forms and formats. There's definitely not a one size fits all, and I think that's a key thing that any good operator should be doing, which is not coming in and saying this is how we're going to do it. We're building a camp and then you know it's going to give you a few jobs. That's great job done. It's that's you know, and I think that's largely been accepted now and and realized by most operators. Funnily enough, this may seem flippant but kind of almost simplistic. I was talking with our head of impact and he said the challenge now is everybody kind of thinks about focusing inside the park, on the wildlife, as you say, and actually he said our challenge as a camp operator or not a challenge, our job is to focus on what's outside of the park, because what's inside the park will take care of itself the wildlife, the nature. It's been doing that for millennia. If we focus on what's outside of the park the people and the communities and working with them and engaging with them and, I think, most importantly, making them feel like they've got a sense of ownership and they're participating in it then we will see real progress being made, because that's where that challenge is.
Speaker 1:The big challenge within you know the safari industry, I think, wild areas generally is that encroachment and that loss of biodiversity as the population grows, and it's a challenge. So our focus in working those communities is what's? What does that local community actually want to need? And, to give a good example, it varies from camp to camp and location to location is in Botswana we are on a community conservancy called Vumbra, so the community, five villages own this community conservancy and we're allowed to operate two camps there and this is about the size of Manhattan, it's a big, big area and we pay them. As a starting point, we pay them rent, a very market high rent that they can use and develop their community with. But again people think, well, that's it, job done. No, it's actually. We want them to still feel ownership and we noticed that there was a conflict between them having cattle and then lions being on the area on the conservancy and rather than kind of do nothing about it and just say you shouldn being on the area on the conservancy and rather than kind of, you know, do nothing about it and just say you shouldn't kill the lions because the lions would attack their cattle, kill the cattle and they would retaliate because the cattle is their livelihood. They would poison the carcasses, it would kill the lions as well as other wildlife.
Speaker 1:So our job at that point is to figure out okay, well, how can we mitigate this? And actually it's not just for us to do the way we do. It is we actually support an NGO that works with the local community and we provide funding for lion collars and they call the lions the NGO, and then they've empowered the community. They've got little like radars and when lions come into the area it goes beep, beep, beep. And we've got about 250 people that have alert systems and through their extended households it reaches about 1, 1500 people in that area, so they know when lions are coming into the area. They can then go in and notify their rangers that are looking after their cattle. They can bring them together and at night the NGO has set up what are called bombas, so it's just a circular area that's fenced and they can bring the cattle in there at night when lion are most active. They're safe and protected and there's lots of spinoff benefits because the cattle are kept together. It makes it easier to provide them with medicine, keep the cattle health up. That means that you get a better price for their beef.
Speaker 1:So there's all these spinoff things to us helping support a project, not just wilderness on its own, but us working with an NGO and the local community to find a way to mitigate this particular issue. And we've seen and I mentioned earlier about us actually having measurements. We, you know, we don't just do this and go, yeah, we think it's working. We we track and monitor this. We've not we've doubled the line population in that area and we've not had a lost cow or a member of the cattle community for, I think, five years now. And similarly, we've not had a lion that's been attacked or killed in retaliation for five years. So so a really big success project.
Speaker 1:And I say there's lots of spinoffs to it which we can happy to go into. But that's a kind of great example of us working with the local community, listening to them. What's the issue that they have? You know, beyond us just paying rent. And also, who else do we work with? Is it local government? Is it an NGO? Is it you know certain community members? That's a really key thing, I think. Now you know certain community members. Um, that's, that's a really key thing, I think now for camp operators is to kind of go in with an open mind rather than this is how conservation should be across the continent.
Speaker 2:yeah, it's one of the struggles I've always had with an all-inclusive holiday, which we've never done as a family. It's not been our style of travel. Uh, we came close to one last year and it had exactly the feel that I don't like about traveling where you're cut off from the local community because there's such a disparity in wealth, for example, so you're staying at a resort and you're totally separated, and obviously that's something that travelers have to be that much more conscientious of. In Africa and when you actually get the experience to connect with local culture because obviously you highlighted some great examples there of how you need to kind of live in harmony with and for the benefit of the wildlife but also you know, in terms of commerce and trade and opportunity, that you know you're creating opportunities for locals in many ways to become guides, to work at these camps and to create, you know, well-paying jobs and good opportunities for them.
Speaker 2:One of the things I was keen to know, because this was something I didn't anticipate, but after we had our day on safari, we had this incredible meal. Then we would get a cultural performance, like dancing, and it was like you'd actually get to learn more about the local culture, and I love that for myself because, again, that's that like human connection. So would you mind sharing with us some of the maybe special cultural experiences that guests might be able to take part on in any one of your camps or safaris?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got. Yeah, in Namibia there's lots, the Mar-a-Land camp. The camp is actually part of the community conservancy. So again, the community are in the land, but all the staff are from the local community and it's a way of the community diversifying their income, farming and other methods as well. So the camp and that's true actually, for pretty much we've got 96% of our staff are from the local community, or at least the country the camp is in, because some of these areas there's very few people anyway, so we have to look a little further afield. But over 96% of the staff and what we say to them is, yes, we train them on, kind of you know, a level of service and certain skills. But we also say to our staff you own this camp, it's you know, this is in your country. Bring your style, your kind of flavor, as it were.
Speaker 1:And a great example of that is in Botswana, where we do Boma Night Every Monday night across all our camps. You know we have lovely dining areas within the main lodge area, but on Monday nights there's an area we always have just next to the main area, on sand, on the ground. It's kind of a, I guess, wooden sort of logs making a fence around it and it's called the Boma and actually Botswana and Setswana communities have that. You know that's where they meet. They meet at the Boma for their community. You know meetings for their celebrations, for their mornings, and so we bring that concept into the camp.
Speaker 1:Each camp has a choir and that's the kind of because they're in these remote areas, we find things for the camp staff to do and bond and they love singing in Botswana, so they have these choirs, camp choirs, and so we get we bring that into the Boma and they will perform. They will sing songs, they'll perform the local dances and they'll talk about you know what the song means, get up and can dance with them and get involved as well. It's round a fire and we eat out under the stars and there's the usual food and we bring in some local foods as well so guests can try that. So, although you're in this kind of luxury camp and you know has got and we've talked about wine cellars, you know various whiskeys, et cetera, wonderful food Every Monday night, we want to give guests the chance to connect a little bit to Botswana culture and even though we're in these remote areas, you might not have a village next door that you can go and visit, and do it during the day.
Speaker 1:On a Monday night the staff will come in and share that culture with guests and often by that point you know guests have met the staff and the staff are all friendly and encouraged to interact with guests. And so, yeah, there's that conversation to be had and the staff will join. Many members of the staff will join for dinner.
Speaker 2:Now that's great. No, I appreciate you sharing those because I think that's where it really came to life for me, that it was like it was on all levels. It was a truly like, immersive experience, and it was like it was. I guess the best word for it's delightful Like I was just every day was like, and so the other thing I wanted to chat with you about is going back to even where the conversation started, with wilderness safaris. And now being wilderness is where the company is headed and where these experiences are headed.
Speaker 2:So maybe let's stay on the continent first and speak in terms of the safaris themselves. So I'd love to hear how you see those evolving in the next five or 10 years. What sort of? You know how you're adapting to different customer needs or different types of demographic shifts? Or you know how you're adapting to different customer needs or different types of demographic shifts, or you know what is evolving? And also, too, I'm happy to share what's staying the same, because there's a perfection to a certain extent with the way some of these safaris operate, so it doesn't necessarily need to change or evolve, but clearly, consumers and their behavior are often doing that. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about how safari experiences are evolving.
Speaker 1:I think first, and there's probably two kind of key obvious ones for the direct guest experience One is the nature of the activities. I think this concept of just going and sitting in a vehicle for three or four hours in the morning and then three or four hours later in the day. We're in a much more, I guess, healthy, conscious society today and people want to be active at times. So there's that, I guess, diverse diversification of experiences and a lot depends on where you are, and some places already lend themselves well to that where you can go and do hikes and walks, and some are kind of finding ways to bring that into their experience. So you know, I think I'm trying to think of some great obvious ones. I mean a lot of our camps in Botswana used to be game drives and motorboats, you know you go out. And now you've got makoros, you've got nature walks. You know there's also heli safaris. You know the guerrilla one is very popular because, again, people like the idea of being able to hike and walk. And then Namibia that's where Namibia is coming in, because a lot of what you do is out the vehicle rather than just because there's not as much wildlife. So there's that part to it. And then the in-camp experience is evolving. We've touched upon, you know, how the camp can be elevated with, you know, and some camps have gyms now and we have some camps that have almost like a lap pool it's 15, 20 meters long People can swim properly, not just a cold plunge pool. So there's those parts within the camp itself.
Speaker 1:Food is a big one. That's the one I was going to mention. Is it used to be very traditional food, I think when you went on safari, sort of meat and two veg type thing? I think, again, with global taste changing, but also from an environmental perspective, we grow a lot of our own vegetables. We work with local again touching on those community projects. We support local communities in Rwanda and we buy all the produce locally from farmers and that great community project work. But also giving our guests that varied menu, that healthier menu, often that lighter menu. And we're seeing that with a lot of camps playing around with different ways of how they do food, rather than just like here's a big brunch, here's, you know, an afternoon tea and then here's a big dinner and you kind of find yourself snacking in between and you come back from holiday 10 to 15 pounds heavier thinking. God, you know how did that happen. So food is kind of one that's. You know we're able to do a lot more in that area today and I think finally and this is where you know again, wilderness we're in many ways fortunate, but a lot of hard work got into this.
Speaker 1:The guest experience around impact and sustainability they want to see it rather than just be told oh, $10 of your stay per night goes to this foundation or trust. They're like A. Some are just skeptical because you know everybody's worried about greenwashing. But more importantly, people are interested and they're like I want to go and see that.
Speaker 1:So that project I mentioned in Botswana with the lion cattle conflict what I should have mentioned really at the beginning was we've made that an excursion. Guests can do a cool heli safari out to that project to visit the community, visit the NGO team member and the local community rangers that are looking after the cattle. They get a cool heli safari but they get a chance to actually speak and engage in a meaningful way. That's enlightening, rather than maybe just the traditional village visit where you kind of walk around and look and kind of feel a bit awkward and wave and go hey, we're just looking at your school and we're looking at your house. This is an actual project that people are going okay cool, my money's going to support this and it's fascinating and these guys are engaging and it's not me telling them about it, it's the NGO member and the local community members that are telling them about it, so that, again, that experience. Diversification is a really key thing in safari.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really interesting and that certainly tracks with my experience and also some of the feedback I've been hearing, certainly about, you know, the aging demographic, but they're more active than ever and it was one of the things that I did pick up on on our safari. But we were traveling with young kids so we couldn't participate. But they were actually doing nature walks. But if your kids were under a certain age or under a certain weight, you don't want to get them risk getting carried away, so uh and uh. But yeah, people were very much keen to be able to explore on their own, which is not something you would be comfortable with getting just out of the vehicle and but no, that that that makes total sense and I think that's probably interesting for a lot of our listeners, especially travel advisors that are encouraging people to take these kinds of trips, and if they hear something like, oh, you just spend all day like in the back of a vehicle, that might turn some people away.
Speaker 2:So now that's great. Now you guys are expanding, so you've got this great brand and these incredible camps and a great legacy that that clearly lends itself to expansion. But tell us a bit more about what does that mean for wilderness. As you now expand beyond Africa, are you building camps other places? Are you doing? Yeah, what? How is the business going to evolve, going forward?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's worth me mentioning there's still plenty to be done within the continent and we are growing and expanding within Africa. We've got a new camp coming up in Rwanda, as I mentioned, and we're always looking for opportunities because these are big countries and big areas and a lot of work that needs to be done to protect them still. But, yeah, looking abroad, nothing, I guess there's nothing formally announced, but it's certainly, you know, we talk about it. South America is, and particularly the Amazon is an area that we're looking at and we are in a particular Pacific country already, you know, I think, fairly progressed. It's at that stage now where I think we're just figuring out the details about okay, are we putting in one camp? Is it two camps? How do we operationally set this up before making, like, the actual, this is what we're doing, um, but we'll certainly be in, I think, in latin america in the next year or two, um, and that's, yeah, that seems pretty far progressed. These, all these things are way above my pay grade, so I don't want to give away too many secrets, but the Amazon is one, and there's also been talk about Southeast Asia.
Speaker 1:I think that's at a much earlier stage. There's lots of you know, countries across the world are looking at how they, you know, develop their tourism offering, how they, you know, provide whatever the right term is ecotourism, sustainable tourism, impact tourism. There is this more discerning traveler, a younger generation, as I mentioned, that wants to kind of understand more about what's going on in a particular wild area. You know what conservation efforts are there, and so there's countries always interested and through our reputation, they've engaged with us. So I think there are discussions in Southeast Asia. I don't think there's anything clearly identified yet, but that's one area you know. Again, it's an area that's got incredible wildlife, with orangutans, tigers, etc. Um, and, and it needs help and support in terms of, okay, how can we protect these areas? But also and this is where I think, wilderness, why we get invited to the table is how do we work with the local communities and make sure they feel involved and engaged and have that sense of ownership on it as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, that's that sounds really exciting, great for you and your career growth. And but also it makes sense with the brand Wilderness Destinations that you are staying true to the core of what your brand identity is, which is the camps, which is conservation, which is connecting with the local community and so the places you're looking for. So that actually is reassuring for me to hear and it very much is on brand. If you've got a core, dedicated audience that loves traveling with Wilderness to Africa, they would love to have that same opportunity in other parts of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely yeah, and that's very much the kind of model is people it comes there's. There is an element of people want to know that who they're traveling with is you know whether it's tried and tested? Is it putting their money where their mouth is, whatever the right expression is? They want that level of trust. And they want that level of trust and they want that level of experience as well and say, wilderness, we're very much.
Speaker 1:I say one of our USPs is all this kind of impact work and community work that we've talked about. We are very good because we have 60 projects across the continent. We are very good at bringing it to the guest experience. I would say we're not perfect. We're very much.
Speaker 1:I speak with our head of impact about how do we bring this more into the guest experience, rather than it being this project, as I say, you know, 50 miles away, that we can't take you to. You have to read about in a pamphlet. Well, how can we take them to it? What can we do? You know, where are those areas where we can get guests more involved? Um, and and for wilderness, you know, I say we're able to do that more easily than others because we've got so many projects and we've got these members of staff and we've got, you know, children in the wilderness. There's a wonderful organization that we've set up, um, that engages thousands of kids across the continent and people can go and see the eco clubs that are set up and participate and actually learn about it. So that's allowing us to, you know, to go further afield and hopefully continue this good work in other parts of the world oh, very cool.
Speaker 2:you certainly inspired me to take a wilderness trip in the future. I certainly hope I have the opportunity and I know a lot of people take trips marking specific occasions, whether it be direct retirements or graduations or honeymoons and I was even seeing that on your website, because it's something that I learned in my time. Certainly in the industry is marketing to people at major milestone moments in their life, because that is when you are going to take a big trip, like going to take a safari. But, yeah, I would love for you to leave everyone in if you would mind with how to find out more information about wilderness. Connect with you and, yeah, cause I've so thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, but, yeah, tell everyone how they can, how they can reach out or get more information about wilderness.
Speaker 1:Certainly, I think, as a first step. I mean, if you work with a travel agent or a tour operator that's usually reach out to them, there's a good chance they will know of us or they'll be part of a consortium or network that we are connected to and then you know. I can then feedback what specific information they need. There's so much information that that's often the challenge challenge, and I try not to just dump everything onto guests and clients at the same time. So, yeah, reach out to that agent or travel tour operator that you know. But there is also our website, wildernessdestinationscom, and on there is, you know, all our camps are there, there's information about our impact work, there's suggested itineraries and you can reach out to us through that website as well. So they're kind of the two, I'd say, most straightforward and easy methods.
Speaker 2:Awesome, that's great. Thank you, ian, and just finishing off, tell us where you're headed next. I know you're heading back to Africa again soon. Is there any new?
Speaker 1:destinations on your travel schedule for 2025? So I'm back in, yeah, end of March and it's great. I'm hosting an impact trip for some agents and we're actually going to take some agents and show them, yes, our amazing camps and wildlife areas, but also some of the new projects we've got going. So I'm excited about that. That's going to be in Zimbabwe and Botswana. And then, personally, I'm excited to I'm lining up, hopefully a walking safari in Tanzania, and that's to say we've talked about that activity diversification and we've got a great team in Tanzania that do get access to certain parts of the Serengeti where you can go on foot, and that's being on foot out of the vehicle. Whether you do it for two or three hours or you do it as part of a multi-day trip, it's well worth it. You mentioned it. You feel connected back to those primal roots, you know you're on foot, everything on the ground, and there's a different feeling and it's a very enlightening and warming feeling. So I'm looking forward to doing a walking safari later this year in Tanzania.
Speaker 2:Wow, that sounds amazing. Well, I look forward to following your journeys. I'll be sure to see if I could follow some of those on social media or just through wilderness, but it's been a real pleasure meeting you, ian, and getting to know you and, obviously, spending the time having this conversation today. So, safe travels, enjoy 2025. And I look forward to keeping in touch. Yeah, you too. Thank you again for having me on. It's been a real yeah, real pleasure too.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us on the latest episode of Travel Trends. I hope you enjoyed our continuing discussion into the world of African safaris. I thought that this conversation with Ian McConnachie from Wilderness was a perfect compliment to our opening discussion with Sherwin Banda from African Travel, and next week we're going to have Cliff D'Souza from Savannah Tours in Tanzania highlighting an experience on the safari from his perspective as a ground operator. And then we're going to finish off with Josh from Cloud Safaris, who has kindly sponsored this series, and, for those of you who are on the travel agency side or an OTA that is looking for technology to better sell African safaris, I definitely encourage you to check out cloud safariscom and learn more about their technology and their amazing team. Thanks again, josh.
Speaker 2:And also we post clips and highlights from every episode on our social channels, which are Instagram, YouTube and LinkedIn, so check that out at travel trends podcast. And then we also send out a monthly newsletter where we announced our winner with flytographers photoshoot contest. So check that out to make sure that you are in the know first, as well as our special offer with focus right europe for 100 euros off. And the one other incentive I wanted to extend at the end of this episode is that any of you that actually choose to book your focus right ticket and use that link that is a dynamic link on our website. The code is TRAVELTRENDS25, but you're best to click through on the link Anyone who actually books a ticket with that code I will guarantee you an in-person interview at Focusrite Europe, so definitely plan to join us there. In the meantime, I just wanted to wish everyone well from ITB in Berlin and, until next week, safe travels.
