Travel Trends with Dan Christian
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Inside Tanzania's Safari Legacy: The Great Migration & Affordable Luxury
Step into the world of Tanzanian safaris with Cliff D’Souza, Managing Director of Savannah Tours, a family-run business with 51 years of expertise. Cliff shares how safari experiences have transformed—from rugged Land Rovers and simple tents to modern vehicles with Wi-Fi and luxury lodges boasting spa facilities—all while preserving the raw beauty of the wilderness.
What You'll Uncover in This Episode
- The evolution of Tanzanian safaris, now including cultural visits to Maasai villages and the Hadzabe hunter-gatherer tribe.
- Highlights of the northern circuit (Serengeti, Ngorongoro Crater, and Tarangire), including the Great Migration and calving season.
- Conservation efforts, with rangers protecting endangered species, a national ban on single-use plastics, and lodges adopting solar power and water conservation practices.
- Accessibility improvements, making national parks even easier to explore.
- Safari packages ranging from $863 for a seven-day experience to ultra-luxury adventures, ensuring options for every traveler.
Cliff also reveals fascinating trends, like increasing diversity in safari-goers (with growing interest from Asian travelers) and an exciting surge in advance bookings—2025 is already 70% sold! Whether you're planning your first adventure or a return to explore Tanzania’s southern gems like Nyerere National Park, this episode inspires you to plan an unforgettable journey.
Cliff’s parting wisdom? “Don’t rush. Take the time to truly experience the magic of Tanzania.”
Now is your chance to immerse yourself in a safari adventure of a lifetime.
👉 Listen to Inside Tanzania's Safari Legacy: The Great Migration & Affordable Luxury Now
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then the uh, the thing about it just being a wildlife experience is now nowadays something of the past. This has changed a lot over the years. Every single safari program has a cultural experience to it. We have we offer and we add on, and client can choose even more. But we offer experiences like visiting a Maasai village, visiting the Hadzabe tribe who are hunter-gatherers, or going on a canoe on a lake. You know you're paddling out there yourself. We offer walking safaris. We take you out on a walk if you're interested in. So there are lots of options. I think gone are the days when people just want to get into the vehicle in the morning and spend four or five hours just driving along all over the place. So we do have these add-ons. That has now become part of every single life in the city.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and I'm excited to continue our deep dive into African safaris. As you heard, on our first episode we had a chance to speak to Sherwin Banda from African Travel, all about South Africa and where he's from in Cape Town. And then we spoke to Ian from Wilderness, who spent a lot of time in Botswana, and they have camps all over Africa and now are expanding globally. And today we have a chance to speak to Cliff D'Souza, who is the managing director of Savannah Tours. He's based in Tanzania.
Speaker 2:We finally had a chance to record this. We've literally tried five times and had some challenges with internet connectivity. I had the chance to meet Cliff at the World Travel Market in November last year and, interestingly, he is actually the uncle to Josh who runs Cloud Safaris, who's kindly sponsored this series. So there's a great connection there, because this is a family-owned business of more than 50 years and Cliff, as you'll hear him mention, has only been running it for about 25 years and he has deep expertise in this area. And you'll hear that as we talk about the evolution of safaris and how they started as a real backpacker experience and then clearly extend to very high-end luxury today. However, what we also talk about is something that Josh mentioned and you'll hear this in our final conversation next week when we talk to him about cloud safaris is how do we actually make safari experiences affordable and accessible? And that's actually where their journey began, and it's still a very important consideration for those of you that are looking at a safari experience as out of reach, and one of the things I love about the travel industry is that it always has the opportunity to pick people up and lift communities when done responsibly and when you tap into the real emerging middle class that we're seeing around the world, which is going to see travelers increase from 400 million to 800 million in the next 20, 25 years. So this is a topic that I wanted to cover as part of the safaris so that we can plan to welcome more people into these experiences and to be able to do so responsibly and sustainably. So that's one of the things I get into with Cliff today, but you'll hear so much more about what is special and unique about Tanzania both the people and the geography and, of course, the wildlife and the great wildebeest migration, which is definitely one of the main reasons to go, and I had the privilege to experience that myself with my family a few years ago, so we're going to dive right into today's episode.
Speaker 2:Don't forget, though, we do send out monthly updates of all of our new podcast series and our events coming up for the next month. So make sure you're registered at TravelTrendsPodcastcom, and then we post clips and highlights on our social channels as well, which you can find on Instagram, youtube and LinkedIn at Travel Trends Podcast. And thanks again to Josh and the team at Cloud Safaris for sponsoring this series. Since this is the number one B2B podcast globally, it's great to partner with them because they are completely focused on offering B2B solutions for travel agents and online travel agencies to make it possible for you to offer African safaris. They're starting in East Africa. They have a talented team of tech developers and travel agents who have a great passion for this space, and they are committed to developing this new technology, leveraging AI to make personalization and take away a lot of the pricing complexity. So look for more information at cloud safariscom and take away a lot of the pricing complexity. So look for more information at cloud safariscom and reach out to Josh and the team. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:Thank you very much for the invitation. I'm very pleased to be here with you.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Now, over the course of this series we have heard from Sherwin Banda, from South Africa, and we've heard from Ian, who was based in Botswana, and now we have the privilege to not only speak to you but also understand where safaris began in East Africa and the incredible legacy that your family has in this industry, the last 50 years running this business. And, of course, you're very smart and switched on nephew, who runs Cloud Safaris, based here in Toronto and has kindly sponsored this series. So it's nice to make this connection with you and, of course, for all of our listeners, I had the chance to meet Cliff in person at WTM World World Travel Market in London last November and he came to our gathering of travel trends post our talk and it was terrific to meet you in person, cliff, and so and a real honor to have you on the show. So let's tell everyone a bit about the background of your company, savannah Tours, and your background in tourism.
Speaker 1:So Savannah Tours is a family-owned and managed business now in our 51st year of operation. It was a company started by my father and, as I grew up as a child at home, everything around me was everything to do with the hospitality industry and tourism tourism. So I was pretty involved with it from my early days and my father would always get me involved in some sort of apprenticeship within the company until he decided it's time to send him away, and I was sent away to the UK to study. Having studied hotel management and finance, I eventually returned back to Tanzania and joined the family business, where I have been now working for over three decades now, and I only took over about less than two decades ago when my father passed away, and I've been running the company now.
Speaker 2:What an amazing legacy and a tribute to your father, and I like that you say only a couple of decades, which I guess, in the grand scheme of things, I mean given the 50 year history. I mean, yeah, you've been running it for half the time, and I guess that's where I'd love to know a bit more about the journey of Savannah Tours, specifically where the safari started, because you're in a, I guess, a very privileged position to be able to give us an understanding of how they've evolved over the time. So the thing, tell us, first of all, I guess, where you're based, so anyone looking on a map can actually picture where you are in the world. Where exactly in Tanzania, are you based and where's the office?
Speaker 1:I am based in Arusha, which is the heart and the capital city, one of the capital cities of Tanzania, but it's the heart of where everything to do with safaris start. It's the center. Everybody arrives from there and then disperses off to the national parks, and that's where our main base is and our main operation center is.
Speaker 2:That's great. I appreciate you sharing that for context, and I guess that's where to go back to, where this business started. I'm sure there's quite a few things that are the same and a lot that is different, but in those early days, tell us what the safari experience was like in terms of organizing the vehicles to take people out to these game parks and tell us a little bit of how it's evolved to where we are in 2025. And again, that's where I'm very keen to know what's the same, what's different in the safari experience in East Africa.
Speaker 1:So I've experienced a lot of change and I've seen all the change during my time within the company and from the very, very early days when I was still not involved in the company, safaris were operated in the old land rollers. There was nothing modern about these vehicles, just that they were rugged vehicles and could go through very difficult terrains. But that was about it. It was just a 4x4 vehicle. Today, years on, it's completely different. All our safari vehicles are completely modernized. They are safari equipped with fridges inside, wi-fi systems, charging points for your vehicle, pop-up roofs for easy game viewing in the sunshade. Vehicles have changed.
Speaker 1:In the past, accommodation was very basic. Many of the places were very basic, simple lodges or just tented camps, what I call safari bush camps, whereby you literally are out there in the wilderness as well. But things that evolve, since Today we have luxury lodges with spa facilities and all the equipment you can think of. Tented camps are high-class tented camps. You will be staying in a tent, but you have flush toilets running, walk there. Some places even have air conditioning in their tent. You know, one might think, oh my God, this is not the way I want a safari. But believe me, at the end of the day after you're spending a good five, six hours game viewing. When you come back, you do enjoy the little bit of luxury that you get there.
Speaker 2:For sure and that's exactly what I was going to ask you about was the accommodation, because certainly my experience on safari and I've been fortunate enough to be in Africa twice and of course some of our listeners have heard I was in South Africa and then Kenya and Tanzania, so I've had the, I guess, the privilege and opportunity to experience what an extraordinary part of the world that you're based in and to see some of the great migrations.
Speaker 2:But I guess that's where, when I think of the vehicle experience, obviously they've gotten more comfortable and, as you mentioned, like sunshades and some of those developments, charging ports but certainly where it stood out to me, not knowing those early days, was the accommodation. I just didn't expect how luxurious, how extraordinary the cuisine was going to be and certainly that has to be a major driver of what people are looking for on safari. Is these incredible lodges that we heard a little bit about from wilderness because their focus was game camp. So tell us how that fits in for you. So obviously, do you uh, do you work with specific uh uh game parks and with uh with lodges, and are they some of those lodges part of savannah tours? How do you integrate that into your offering?
Speaker 1:we. We work with all the game paths in tanzania. We can offer you an adventure experience in all the national parks in Tanzania. But in terms of lodging, we work with a few of the lodges that we have chosen as our premium properties to be dealing with. We work also with wilderness as well, with their properties in Tanzania, and we specifically design a program to fit our client. That doesn't necessarily mean that we are only offering the higher end safaris, but if a client wants something a bit out of the different completely tented camps and all that, we offer all of that.
Speaker 2:That's great and I think you know, one of the things I definitely am keen to get your take on and your insights, which will be unique in this series, is just in terms of some of the insights into your clients and the booking trends.
Speaker 2:There was a number of questions that I was certainly keen to dive into that we'll have the chance to, but just before we do, in terms of understanding how safaris have evolved, you've obviously mentioned a number of ways that they have changed over the years. What would you say, beyond accommodation and the vehicles has also, I guess, transformed the Tanzanian safari experience? I'm sure there's been a lot of learning about culture and preservation and sustainability and some of those developments. So tell us a little bit more, if you wouldn't mind, just in terms of how some of the safari experiences have evolved and where some of the innovations have been, and, if you don't mind, how that connects to travelers' priorities and some of their preferences that you're hearing that clearly you need to adapt to, based on people's perception of the destination and what they're going to experience.
Speaker 1:One of the biggest changes I had seen is before we get into the actual safari package type of thing, one of the biggest changes I'd seen over the years is protection of wildlife. This has been a global trend and Tanzania is a forefront runner in this. Wildlife is a high priority for the country. There's a lot of protection that's done to the animals, both from the rhino to all types of animals. So this has been a significant difference between what it was many a day in the past when there was a lot of poaching that was taking place, and all that and the government here in Tanzania have tried and are still trying very hard to reduce this considerably.
Speaker 1:We have had foreign partners that are supporting the government and this is a big improvement to the sector and for the future.
Speaker 1:We have a lot of rangers and even things like the rhino, for example, where the species is endangered and there are very few left, even the rhino in which many are housed in the Gorongoro crater, for every rhino or every two rhinos, there is a park ranger with his Land Rover driving around and always in the vicinity making sure that these animals are kept safe.
Speaker 1:So this has helped us and will allow this to carry on for generations to come, for our grandchildren to come and see and enjoy this beauty that Tanzania has to offer. In terms of the infrastructure, we have seen a lot of development again. Before, in the early days, when you drove from Arusha, which is the main city where you arrive, and you drove up to the Serengeti, it would take you two days to drive because there was no tarmac road at all, completely so you were going through potholes. And now today, when you travel, you can drive from Arusha all the way to the Serengeti in about six to seven hours because the road in most of the cases outside the national parks is tarred and when you get within the national parks it's the all-weather roads, things we have never seen in Nepal.
Speaker 2:And I'm glad you mentioned the Nkoro Goro crater. That was one of the huge standouts for us. So let's actually let's walk our listeners through, whether they're travel agents or travelers. My father-in-law is very keen to go to East Africa. He's not been to Africa yet. He was debating between South Africa and East Africa, and I'm always thinking about our, our listeners, in mind, and clearly there's a number of outstanding highlights that stood out to me about Tanzania and Kenya. But let's let's break down. You mentioned the national park, so let's give everyone a bit of detail about why they should choose Tanzania for either their very first safari or, if they've been before, why they should actually make this their next trip. So tell us a little bit, if you wouldn't mind, about the migrations that occur. Tell us a little bit about some of the national parks that we should know about in Tanzania, and then, of course, please highlight some of the experiences that you offer on these trips that, clearly, I may not be aware of.
Speaker 1:So, when coming to Tanzania, two of the most important must-see national parks are the Serengeki National Park and the Gorongoro Crater. Park and the Gorongoro Crater. The Serengeti National Park is renowned for its vast plains, quantity and diversity of wildlife. The Big Five, and the most important, is the wildebeest migration that takes place in Tanzania. This is an annual thing where all the wildebeest migrate and they travel right around the Serengeti depending on weather conditions, and it's something one has to see. It's what everybody watches Natural Geographic and they see the wildebeest crossing the Great Mara River. It all happened in Tanzania.
Speaker 1:The other national park is the Gorongoro Crater, which is a World Heritage Site. It's a dormant volcano and it's incredibly beautiful and the home to the rhinos. A lot of wildlife is contained within the walls of the crater. Remaining still with the northern Tanzania circuit, we also have the Tarangire National Park, which is famous for its huge herds of elephant. These being the three main uh parks in the Northern Circuit, this is definitely where one should start from First-time visitors and even second-time visitors coming back, because there's always something different, something new that happens there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Fantastic so that the great migration was one of the reasons that we actually chose that time of the year. So tell everyone, if you wouldn't mind too, the best times of the year to visit Tanzania, because I'm sure that's going to be helpful too as people start looking at their calendars and figuring out when they could actually make this trip happen. Because, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:When's the best time to go to see the migrations, and also for the climate and best time. It's also our busiest time, but it's a good time to see the migration because the migration is up by the Mar River, which is middle of August to end of August up to early September. So you have the opportunity of going all the way to the northern parts of the Serengeti National Park and seeing the migration, or even if you are in the other areas of the park. It's a great time to visit because our rains have already finished, which is April and May, and the wildlife is really increased a lot. They are there because it's now much drier and a great time for the wildlife that are actually resident animal in the area.
Speaker 1:July-august is, weather-wise, is excellent in Tantanier. And why I say this? It's because it's not fucked as it normally is in the country, Because July, August, September is supposed to be our winter in Tanzania. And now you might think, okay, hang on, this guy is telling us to come down to Tanzania for winter, but the coldest it gets is like 19 degrees and you know the local people still fold with that. So it's how winter and you know when Europeans come, or when all the foreigners come, they really enjoy the not so hot weather, which is July, August, September. The second time to visit is when Christmas. Obviously it's a good family time and a holiday time. We then have December, which is the hottest time of the year, but it's a great festive time, the Christmas period and finally you have February and March, also a good time to see the migration because they're more in the central Serengeti part when it's the carving season, so you see nature at its best, Unbelievable scenes that you can experience in that area.
Speaker 2:Thanks for that, cliff. That's exactly why we went when we did the calving season and obviously there's some dramatic wildlife displays that occur there, not only in terms of the migration, but also seeing some of the big cats hunting, because obviously there are babies and trying to protect their newborn. It is really dramatic. I'm sure many people have watched, whether it be the Discovery Channel or the, and this is where it's totally different, when you experience it in person. So it's a marvel to see on a BBC Earth documentary, but you absolutely have to go there for yourself. We'll be right back. Hey, travel publishers and content creators, if you're searching for a fresh way to boost your revenue, then look no further than our friends at Stay22. Their AI-powered solutions work seamlessly in the background, adding an extra stream of revenue without altering any of your site's setup. In 2024 alone, their tools have powered more than 2 billion pages and helped their partners generate more than $500 million in GMV. Stay22.com and you'll get details on an exclusive offer just for Travel Trends listeners. That's stay22.com.
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Speaker 2:And now back to the show. Tell us a little bit more. I'm keen to also know, cliff, when I think about the people that travel to these safaris, one of the things that I came to understand in my time working with African travel, lion World and marketing safaris and building out these websites, one was trying to understand the geography and the experiences and exactly what you've kindly described, so that you actually know why Tanzania, what it offers, when you should go. But one of the things that I learned on the marketing side was that when people travel to Africa, there's typically it's often what I became familiar with was the idea of celebration travel. People were celebrating a major event or milestone, like a honeymoon, retirement, a major life event, and often that involved then couples, which obviously makes sense the two people traveling together, which obviously makes sense, the two people traveling together.
Speaker 2:Tell us, if you wouldn't mind. I know photography has become that much more important. So photography travel. But tell us, from what you're seeing with the clients that are booking the trips with you, what are some of the trends you've noticed in the clients booking their safaris? Are they solo travelers, families, multi-generational groups?
Speaker 1:Take us a little bit through the people that you would meet on safari and how you've seen that evolving and changing. Even our company, savannah Tours. We even have child seats available, you know. So if you come with a younger child, you need a child seat. We fit it into the vehicle so you travel in comfort. We have a special next for the child as well. So that's there.
Speaker 1:We have also seen honeymoon couples. This has been on the increase, but before the honeymoon we have had many weddings that have taken place. People love these bush weddings. They come out there and we organize the whole blessing and everything out there in the middle of the Serengeti or in one of the other national parks. That happens, honeymoons happen.
Speaker 1:Sabama has done quite a few 50-year birthday celebrations. Our biggest was that we did one two years ago when we had a group of like 40 people that came in and it was a four-day event. They stayed in one national park they actually stayed in town near a national park and they were busy every day we kept them busy, kept them entertained. You went, they stayed in one Nassau Park. They actually stayed in town near Nassau Park and they were busy every day. We kept them busy, kept them entertained and, yep, we organized it all. You also see a lot of single travelers coming, people who are specifically interested in either monitoring, following the wildlife, or just watching a pride of lion and just staying with the lion the whole day. Or some people who just literally come and want to do a short game but spend time reading their book and just enjoying being out there in the wilderness.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating. I never realized the in-destination wedding was significant. Obviously, I would love to be invited to a wedding in Tanzania I get the honeymooners for sure and the 50th. I mean that all the one thing you mentioned, obviously, is the solo travelers which I was looking at, a stat going into our series. I mean it is about 60% couples and then 40% friends travel, which is, you know, and more and more people that are traveling with small groups or, you know, solo female travelers.
Speaker 2:I did learn this too, cliff, just recently myself, because I'm always staying, you know, very focused on the trends that we're seeing and being able to highlight that to our listeners, and one of them that came out of the Forbes Travel Guide conference in Monaco just recently was this dramatic rise in the last five years of solo travelers, and it's overwhelmingly female, and the stat that I heard, that I made a note of, was that 47% of those solo female travelers are divorced or widows, and someone had said to me right afterwards that's sad and it's like, well, not necessarily If, if they're traveling, at least they're actually.
Speaker 2:You know so, but there clearly is more solo female travelers that um, and then, in terms of the um, the types of experiences that they are specifically seeking, and I guess that's where um it you know culturally, depending on where they're coming from. That's the other thing I was also keen to understand from you, cliff, is that I know we often rely a lot on the English source markets and that clearly is where most of our listeners are US, canada, uk, australia. What have you seen in terms of the trends? Are you seeing more American travelers? Are you seeing more people traveling from Asia or from Europe? Have you seen a bit of a change to the profile of the customers and where they're traveling from geographically? Yes, we have seen.
Speaker 1:I mean, it has always been the European market and the US market that has been feeding us with tourists all these years now. But there is a big grow in the Asian market from Japan, from China, from India, from South Korea, from Indonesia. These markets are growing and they are huge marketing areas for us to go into. That we are looking currently.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting. I mean it makes total sense. I know that Matthew Upchart should highlight to me. There's 100 million Chinese travelers that haven't reentered the global travel market and are starting to do so. So South Korea, obviously Japan is a massive inbound destination, but obviously a lot of travelers outbound from Japan. So that's yeah there were certainly quite a few Asian travelers, for sure when I was there and European, and I guess that's where we need to make sure that we are balanced in our some of the challenges that are happening geopolitically around the world at the moment. We need to make sure that we're diversifying our source markets.
Speaker 2:But a lot of people have a perception that an African safari is luxury and certainly the word luxury has changed significantly because luxury is much more accessible and that's a wonderful thing for many middle class and kind of upper middle class that are looking for a luxurious experience that can splurge on a holiday. Then there's obviously these high net worth individuals that are going to book out an entire camp and fly private jets. That's a whole world unto itself which is growing significantly as well. And then of course you have kind of the budget conscience not quite backpacker, because Africa, you know is, is moving more in the direction of getting independent travelers. But for the most part you come with a tour operator with accommodations uh, sorted out already, but you still will have budget focused travelers.
Speaker 2:And I guess that's the part I was also keen to understand with Tanzania is how much of uh the destination really caters to luxury safari experiences, um, you know those curated uh, and we've heard a lot about that and I think that's what people have the perception of. But I'd love if you could also demystify too, since I know that's that's a real passion for Joshua, that he actually wants to, I guess, more democratize access to people traveling in East Africa and make it more accessible. So he was very kindly highlighting to me, as people were here in next week's interview, um, about the price point being far more accessible. So tell us how you get you cater to that wide audience and, from your perspective, putting these packages together, how you can make some affordable and some luxurious.
Speaker 1:So if we go back a little bit here, in the early days all the safaris were backpacking safaris type, but not all. Most of the safaris were backpacking. That's how people traveled out here. There were these camping safaris, whereby you left out on safari and you had your cook in the vehicle, you had your tents in the vehicle and you traveled out there and that was the most basic safari that one could do. That is still available today. We still have students who are coming out here and wanting to do safaris like that, just purely for the experience as well, whereby you are out in the wilderness, there's no fence around you, there's nothing around you.
Speaker 1:But this has evolved over the years. We've had better lodges, more affordable lodges whereby, for a little bit more extra money, you're actually in a lodge. At the end of the day, you're in a guest house facility, a tourist guest house facility close to the National Park that you can stay in and you can afford the safari. In terms of luxury in Tanzania, I would say there's two levels of luxury. There's one, what I call the affordable luxury, that it's opened out. It's available to most of the people today. And there is the other luxury, as you mentioned, those that fly in with private jets and go from one national park to the next in a jet again, but that only accounts, I would say roughly, at about 20% of our market today. There are specific lodges that cater for this type of tour, but the rest of the lodges, although they are four-star and five-star, they are affordable today.
Speaker 1:I mean, tanzania is not a cheap destination. I can tell you that it is an expensive destination. From whatever level you are looking at, whether it's mid-range or semi-marketplace, it is an expensive destination. But you know what I say it's a holiday of a lifetime. If you're going to do it, do it once. Spend a few more extra days, spend a little bit more money and, believe me, it's an experience of a lifetime. So, yes, one has to think about the money, but think about it. It's an experience you're never, ever going to forget. So spend a little bit more and enjoy the experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. And that, obviously, when you experience a lodge that has like a plunge pool or just, you know, the exquisite food or the gorgeous accommodations with the spectacular views, I mean it all adds up to a heightened experience. And you know, often these trips themselves are, you know, you might spend three days on the safari part. So it's uh, it is important that you, I guess you treat yourself when it comes to where you stay and what you do. One of the things I wanted to ask you too, cliff, is that when I experienced Tanzania, we started in Tanzania and we went to Kenya and of course they, um, there are amazing attractions and, uh, uh, national parks on both sides. And when someone's traveling to Tanzania, how many people who are traveling to Tanzania will do Tanzania exclusively and how many people will also do Tanzania and Kenya, and how do you work that out with your itinerary? Are you handing them over to another partner or are you actually crossing over and doing both countries?
Speaker 1:So when a client is doing Kenya and Tanzania, we are using our partners in Kenya and basically we're handing over. For example, if you are in the Masai Mara today, you can get a flight that actually takes you from the Masai Mara to a border crossing point and then into the Serengeti. So when you arrive in the Serengeti, the Tanzania partner is there to pick you up. And likewise, on the authentic side, on the authentic direction, we try and complement each other and sometimes, when I'm discussing and trying to tailor, make a program, I feel that there's a lot more Tanzania has to offer in terms of wildlife, experiences and different areas that sometimes I managed to convince people just do a Tanzania safari and get the whole experience from it, rather than doing more, just pointed out that the bassai marrow, which is, you know, cultural heritage and community connection, is certainly much more of a driver for people's travel experiences today, and I'm just genuinely curious how important that is to the itineraries you put together.
Speaker 2:I know, obviously people are primarily traveling, uh, for the wildlife, they're traveling to see the savannah and, you know, to be able to experience the um. But one of the other things that people are looking for is that is that connection. How do you factor that in? Even in tanzania, when it comes to um, cultural heritage and some of the community connection, how do you work with the local communities and how do you, how do you build that in? Where does that fit into some of the itineraries?
Speaker 1:if you will, then then the uh, the thing about it just being a wildlife experience is nowadays something of the past. This has changed a lot over the years. Every single safari program has a cultural experience to it. We offer and we add on and client can choose even more. But we offer experiences like visiting a Maasai village, visiting the Hadzabe tribe who are hunter-gatherers, or going on a canoe on a lake. You know you're paddling out there yourself. We offer walking safaris. We take you out on a walk if you're interested in. So there are lots of options. I think gone are the days when people just want to get into the vehicle in the morning and spend four or five hours just driving along all over the place. So we do have these add-ons. That has now become part of every single itinerary. The cultural experience is a big thing. The Maasai village visit people always want to visit that and go and experience that.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 2:I appreciate giving that context, really important to understand, and I guess I'm glad you you validated what we're you know, in general terms, we're seeing about traveler behavior.
Speaker 2:I guess the other thing to to dive into is the sustainability side as it relates to, because obviously we talked about cultural preservation, we talked a bit of certainly you highlighted about the rhinos, which couldn't be more important to make sure that the wildlife is protected, especially many of these species that are on the endangered list and shockingly low numbers, when you look at it, from all the factors that are negatively impacting them. But certainly, how do we make tourism a force for good and what are you and the Savannah team specifically doing when it comes to sustainability? Because I'm sure there are things that you are very aware of, since you're so close to the land, the people and the experience about what you need to do to make sure that it is truly sustainable as a business and for future generations. So, yeah, talk us through, if you wouldn't mind, cliff, some of the things that Savannah Tours is doing or planning to do to support sustainability more.
Speaker 1:Lodges and tented camps are very conscious about their water supply, their power use. You know everybody's changing from, rather than just having generators, to solar panels. They're digging wells trying to get water in the area rather than having to truck them in as they used to do in the past. Recycling is a big thing. That's taking place at the lodges.
Speaker 1:Single-use plastic now is a complete no-go no-go in Tanzania. Right from the time you arrive at the borders, the clear, big announcement that single-use plastic is not allowed. I mean, even when you are going to duty-free and they pack your duty-free item in one of those duty-free plastic bags at the borders, they make you to open it and take it out and leave the plastic there. So single-use plastic is completely out now. In terms of vehicles, we're looking at different things and the latest in the last two years now they're talking about electrical vehicles in Tanzania. This is still a few years ahead in the future, but it's something already on the charts that tour companies are now considering this and seeing how they can fit in Things also like, for example, the porters on Mount Kilimanjaro. They're being provided with proper equipment, proper clothing. Everybody's trying and building things to improve all the different types of services that we offer out here today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned about electric vehicles, because I'm sure that's the first thing that stands out to many of the guests that they would like to see that. But clearly there are challenges, and I guess this is where I ask the question, because there are some that are practical and are very sensible. I just was in Europe and I rented an electric car and I ran into all sorts of issues trying to recharge it, because even in a place like the south of France, there's difficulty finding chargers and charging stations and um and so, to compare to being out on safari and looking for a supercharger like it's, uh, there there are certain challenges and complexities, but, um, but yeah, no, I appreciate you touching on those because it is obviously so important to today's modern traveler and and clearly we all need to do more and be that much more conscientious of our, our footprint. But in terms of how safaris are evolving, since we, you know, we're kind of now on that topic we're starting to think about, you know, electric vehicles and and how much innovation there can be in this space, tell us why.
Speaker 2:I guess what you see the future of, um, the safari experience was what are some of the things that you are looking to do at Savannah Tours to prepare for the future, as traveler behavior does continue to change. There are some other things that you are, especially with the aging traveler too that are more fit than healthy than ever, but I know one of the things that had come up in speaking to Ian was just the fact that there is, you know, people are focused on wellness and health and therefore they want to do things like you've described. They want to do hikes, they want to get outside of the vehicle, they want, you know, fitness, they want to have a lap pool rather than just a plunge pool. So I guess what are some of the things that you're paying attention to being, you know, so close to this industry with how you see it evolving in the next five to 10 years? How do you see the future of safaris in East Africa?
Speaker 1:I think safaris are no longer going to be just about driving around. It's about experiencing the country around you. It's about these extra activities that are going to happen. A culture thing is a huge thing. On the walking safaris that we're talking about, there are some of the excursions that we offer where you're actually going out for a walk, on a three-night walk or a four-night walk, and you actually enjoy the terrain as you go through that.
Speaker 1:Savannah Tours, as a company, we are trying to offer more and more diversity in all the programs that we can offer today in terms of culture, culture has been the big thing. I think people go back with a good view about what's happening and what was in the past. We are also doing things like improving the services that we provide. Uh, we have no more plastic bottles in our vehicles. Every client is gifted with a proper steel water bottle with us. We, uh, we. The lunch boxes that we provide are all in disposable boxes that can be, you know, not plastic anymore. So we are doing as much as we can, but there's still a lot more to do.
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Speaker 2:This is the other thing I was also keen to know is like when we think about the types of travelers and, um, how some of their motivations are changing, whether it be um short term, like the. Are people, you know, post-pandemic I know we're a few years post-pandemic now, but clearly people's traveler behavior it changed quite significantly and it still is given and and and it will continue to so when? So, when we're having this conversation in 2025 and looking at this year, how many trips are booked ahead for 26 or 27? Are you seeing that more people are booking last minute? Are you seeing more people are actually planning a lot farther ahead?
Speaker 2:When you think about Tanzania as a destination, are there new areas that you're opening up? Is there new game parks that are being initiated or new destinations within Tanzania? Because certainly one of the other trends we've certainly seen is that people are looking to find hidden gems, travel a little further afield, especially in areas where they're concerned about over-tourism. So take us through, if you wouldn't mind, some of those other things that you're paying attention to, some of those signals, if you will, about how the traveler behavior is changing, and then some of the new areas that might be opening up in Tanzania.
Speaker 1:So so far, I mean, we've only just mentioned Serengeti and Goromboro and the Taringe. This is basically the northern circuit of Tanzania, but that's not all Tanzania has to offer. Tanzania has a lot more national parks. We have what I consider the southern circuit. What is the southern circuit, which is previously called the Selugane Reserve, now Nyerere National Park, the Ruaha National Park. If we go further west, we have komazi game reserves.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot more. There's more for people to have visit national parks that have no other vehicles in it, you know, or very few vehicles in it. Uh, compared to the serengeti, where you're driving around and another 50 other land cruisers around you at the same time, you go to somewhere like the near area national park and you can be driving for, although your camp that you're staying in is fully booked, but you can be driving around for hours on end and not see another vehicle and just be out there in the wilderness, experiencing the wildlife and the opportunities that it offers to you. Tanzania is opening up more in terms of, aside from just wildlife. We have areas whereby you can go up hiking into the Lesotho Highlands and, you know, obviously there's the Mount Kilimanjaro as well to climb. So, yeah, there's a lot more that Tanzania can offer you today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you actually mentioned Mount Kilimanjaro because obviously that's the highest point In Africa. Many people make it one of their life ambitions to climb Kilimanjaro. I haven't had the privilege yet. Many people I know have. Some people have tried and not quite been able to achieve it, which just shows you just how difficult it still is, despite you know, just in terms of altitude and some things that people can struggle with.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, no, I appreciate it and I think this is where, like, there's so much to see and explore in Tanzania and obviously I'd love to have the opportunity to come back at some point.
Speaker 2:Certainly, this conversation is leading me more and more to the fact that I need to come back to some point. Certainly, this conversation is leading me more and more to the fact that I need to come back to East Africa, in terms of your company and where you're headed in the next few years. With regards to expanding some of the offerings, including some of those destinations you just mentioned, I guess what's on the horizon for Savannah tours in? You know some of the things you're paying you are looking to offer travelers in 2025 and 2026. How, how do you see your, your business, evolving, in your team growing Because the way we started this cliff is that you know the uh potential is there to double the size of this uh, this industry, in this market, given demographic changes. So I'm sure you and the team are looking at that and trying to figure out how best position your business for it. So yeah, tell us exactly what you have planned and in store with Savannah Tours.
Speaker 1:So first of all, just to answer a question of yours that I missed out Today, more and more travelers are booking well in advance. Okay, good to know. Yeah, we don't see this last minute bookings anymore. You do have a small percentage of it, but everybody's planning well in advance and the way Tanzania has been going this year in 2025, we already for our coming season this July and August, we are already giving. When somebody asks us for a date, and if we're not able to fulfill that date, we are already offering them date in 2026. And we have seen the trend that people are actually booking ahead for 2026 already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's important context. I'm glad you clarified that, cliff, because one of the stats that I recently came up against too, is that you know, in March 2025, depending on when people are listening to this that almost all crews so 70% of ocean cruises are sold out for this year. So the availability that you're working with is less than 30% and they're still selling through quickly. So to your point is that you know this, this um, you know the crazed last minute booking activity that was happening. More people are planning further ahead, which obviously I would say then it gives your business the opportunity to prepare for that scale in terms of the number of vehicles hiring up staff, the logic, availability. So in many ways, that's, I guess, a valuable trend. But, yeah, please tell us again, cliff, how I guess you're preparing for that, knowing that you're selling through now on 2025 and most people listening to this need to start planning for 2026.
Speaker 1:Yes, you need to plan for 2026. We already have a team in our office specifically dealing with 2026 right now, because we're already taking in bookings for 2026, as we can't offer a lot. I think it's only about 30% that's available for the rest of 2025. So we're all planning toward 2026. But aside from that, aside from the normal Serengeti, gorongoro, what we are also trying to offer and pursue clients is to look at the other national parks, especially for people and we have quite a few of those who are second-time visitors to Tanzania already been to the Serengeti and the Gorongoro we are trying to give them new, different types of programs. If you visit, for example, the Nyerere National Park, it's not just about game driving there. It's about both safari on the river and a walking safari. All that is possible there. So we are trying to expand our programs and to try and convince people that you can visit other national parks and get equally good experience during the adventure.
Speaker 2:That's great. One of the things I should have called out a bit earlier in our conversation, because I know many of our listeners are multitasking and I'm going to ask you in a moment about where people can go for more information, but actually I just wanted to highlight um Savannah, tz, as we can even say, or TZ, as our American friends say. Um com is your website and um. One of the things I was really impressed about and this goes back to my conversation with Joshua and one of my questions for you about the range of trips that you offer is that you know you actually have a seven day, 10 destination safari trip that starts at $863. And I mean that's just remarkable. And I know you have many trips that are a thousand or 2000, but for many of our listeners they're not $10,000. Or 2000, but for many of our listeners they're not $10,000. And I think this is so important. As we've had this, you know, deep, dive into, look at the world of African safaris and to not only look at geographically the different regions in Africa and why you might experience each of them, and clearly wilderness has a very unique audience. You work with them, so you, you know you can sell the luxury product experience as well. But I think that one of the things that's exciting me about when we look at global travelers one of the stats too, cliff, that really excited me was that in 2024, we had 400 million travelers globally, which also tells you you know, when you think about our population 8 billion people it's less than 5% have the privilege and opportunity to take leisure trips and travel, but the reality is it's growing. So the number for 2050 is is going to be about 800 million, and one of the big drivers for that is a rising middle class and giving more people the opportunity to experience a trip that would have been, at one point, considered to be, you know, only for, uh, the ultra wealthy. So I love that.
Speaker 2:You, you know, you tap into a key word that I learned from Lucille Siv, who runs Lion World, had did for many years. That I learned from Lucille Siv, who runs Lion World, had did for many years, and I learned a lot from her, and one of the things was affordable luxury, and that's essentially the trip that we had. It was just like you want to feel luxurious but you want it to be accessible, otherwise it's not going to be an option for you. So, um, you know, I'm really enjoying this conversation with you.
Speaker 2:I got a couple of last questions that I do want to make sure people can uh, uh, you, you can leave everyone with some suggestions for not only where they can find out more about Savannah tours, but also to connect with you and and and to learn more about uh safaris in Africa, because some of the things that I have learned in doing this series is that some of these companies are actually expanding internationally, like that wilderness is now going to be opening camps in South America and other destinations around the world, which I think is terrific, because I think that Africa has so much to offer the world. But, yeah, so one of the things I want to ask you, cliff, is you know, given guess most memorable or standout stories from yourself or your family, or even if it is like with guests or a group, you know that was kind of really life-changing or impactful. I just, I mean, for me, this is why we travel. So, yeah, if you wouldn't mind sharing with one of your highlights, that would be fantastic.
Speaker 1:Every experience is different. I think every traveler will experience their own different memorable moment, and for me. I had been on quite a few safaris and you know I've enjoyed seeing my life in different areas and all that. But recently, about a year ago, I was on safari with a client of mine and we were in Taungire National Park and the experience there has baffled me completely.
Speaker 1:There was a pride of lion that were feeding on a prey and we were just parked and we were just watching all this happen in front of us. We were just parked and we were just watching all this happen in front of us and suddenly our guide pointed out that there are some cheetahs in the area as well. So we're sitting there quietly and watching it, and these cheetahs approached the pride of lion to try and chase them away in order to get to the prey. Even our guide, who has done many more safaris than I have, was so shocked he has never, ever, experienced like this, anything like this. The cheetahs actually managed to chase the lion away and then they went and they ate the prey themselves. So that was an experience I will never, ever forget.
Speaker 2:I've seen such great things, but that was just perfect for me. Yeah, that sounds incredible and, um, I've certainly, um, my, my son, watched a lion attack a zebra and kill a zebra and it's like it's, it's going to be uh, um, it's going to stay with him for the rest of his life because he was shocked and horrified, but then, you know, it's uh, um, it was quite a profound thing to see, and I guess not everyone gets to see a kill, I guess, as they're referred to on a, on a safari, but this was uh, um, quite profound, even just to watch the zebra's response to losing one of theirs, and, um, and they waited around until it was certain that it wasn't going to make it. And it's, yeah, it's quite a moment. So I appreciate you sharing that, because I think cheetahs are the most remarkable, given their speed and their agility. One of the yeah, it's quite something to watch.
Speaker 2:Now tell us, for someone listening to this that is now wants to plan their trip. So I guess I've got two questions for you on advice for travelers, and then I want to give you the last word here, cliff. So someone wants to plan their very first safari to Tanzania. What advice would you give them? Don't?
Speaker 1:rush. Allow yourself sufficient time to travel. Don't be one of those tourists who want to do all the national parks in three days just to say, being there, done back. You know, allow yourself time, enjoy, relax, the. The nature is one thing, it's it's beautiful being out there watching the early morning sunrise, being out there in the quiet and the peacefulness. The lodges, the camps they offer amazing facilities, breathtaking views from some of them perched up on the hills, and all that Beautiful swimming pools in some of the lodges. You know, take a book, relax, enjoy, read a book, do your game drives, but don't rush. This would be my big thing. Don't rush. Give yourself a good six to seven days and enjoy the whole thing. That would be my recommendation for anybody planning a safari.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great advice, and to switch off and actually be present.
Speaker 2:That's the only thing I would add to that more as a tip to myself, because, like many people, like you, can't take a vacation from yourself, and if you're hard charging, coming into your holiday and still on your phone, you're not going to make the most of that time, and actually so the other. The last one I wanted to also ask you is that, uh, you probably see a lot of first timers make fairly common mistakes. The one that we certainly did was not bringing our own binoculars, which our guide couldn't believe we didn't have them. We were on extended trip and we so that was, and even the quality of the camera that we had, I mean, clearly, other people bring. So, yeah, I guess what would be a couple of common mistakes that you see first time safari makers uh, safari travelers make, um, and how best to avoid those?
Speaker 1:Ask questions, ask what is available, what can be provided, even Savannah tours, we provide a lot of things. We provide binoculars in the vehicle. You know we can help you with equipment that you might need. But ask questions, what? What you specifically enjoy, even if it's your diet? You have specific diets and all that. Don't you know. Don't just think it'll be sorted out or it'll be available there. These are not hotels in one of the cities that you're used to traveling in. This is something in the middle of a national park and everything has to be catered for and it can be catered for. Whether it's a specific diet or whatever, we can cater for it. But you need to ask questions and you need to tell us what you need and what you think you should bring. We have a list, a packing list that we provide, outlined to help them pack and give them ideas on what they need to have with them when they're traveling.
Speaker 2:That's great. We'll have to share that because I'm sure many of our listeners will be intrigued and we can make sure that there's a few links in the show notes when you find this, just so you can get more information. And that's where I want to finish off with Cliff, so that any of our listeners can connect with you, cliff, and I also just wanted to acknowledge, as I give you the floor, to let our listeners know how to find out more about Savannah Tours and connect with you directly. How to find out more about Savannah Tours and connect with you directly. First, I just wanted to say a big thank you for persevering to make this happen, because I really enjoyed meeting you in person.
Speaker 2:We have tried now three or four times to make this recording happen remotely. We've both been determined to make it happen. Various technical challenges on both of our ends, but I've been in Berlin and you've. Obviously we've had internet connectivity issues, but we finally made it happen. I'm so glad we did. It was such a special conversation and I'm just deeply appreciative. Yeah, so thank you very much for this clip. But, yeah, tell everyone how they can find out more about Savannah Tours and to connect with you, whether it be to book their safari trip or to book their clients in for a future trip.
Speaker 1:So you can have a look at all that we offer on our website, which is wwwsavannatzcom. We have a full range of tours that we normally offer out there and we can design something specifically for you. There's an inquiry page there that you can get in touch with us. If everything on the website seems too confusing, just drop us an email, tell us how many of you are traveling how many, and we will design and come back out to you. We try and offer as much as we can and our goal is to improve client experience, and this is what we're targeting over the next years to come is just to improve the client experience so that you have a great time when you come to Tanzania and, yeah, you will have a memorable experience and you go back almost feeling very happy.
Speaker 2:That's wonderful. Thank you, cliff, and those of you who are using your AI agent to just send them in the direction of Cliff and Savannah Tours and just say book me that safari. And if people want to connect with you directly too, cliff Cliff D'Souza, you're on LinkedIn or any other way to be able to reach out to you directly for partnership opportunities.
Speaker 1:I'm on LinkedIn, yes, on LinkedIn, and you can even connect with me directly off the website. My direct email is on the website. My telephone number is off the website. My direct email is on the website. My telephone number is on the website. You can connect with me directly for a conversation, or yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's great, and I definitely encourage you to because, as you've heard from this conversation, cliff is an expert. His family has been in this business for more than 50 years. He's only spent a short couple of decades running this uh, this company, but, uh, I know there's a lot that uh's a lot more I could learn from you and our listeners as well. So, thank you, cliff, and I look forward to keeping in touch and at some point seeing you again somewhere in the world, and hopefully at some point in Africa on a safari. So thank you again and wishing you and the team the best of luck in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, Dan. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:And, yes, we look forward to catching up with you one day. Thanks so much for joining us on the latest episode of Travel Trends. I hope you enjoyed this discussion with Cliff D'Souza, all about Savannah tours in Tanzania. We have one more episode in our safari series coming up next week and we'll be speaking to Joshua DaSilva, who, of course, is the nephew of Cliff, and I think this was really interesting the way everything came together, because you'll get a sense of where this industry is headed in terms of the technology and distribution when we speak to Joshua next week. And we've had three fantastic conversations with operators, with agencies and with the people that actually run these camps. So I think this was a great way to start our African Safari series, but I'm definitely going to be inspired to do more. I was just at the ITB conference in Berlin and spoke to a number of operators there and had a number of other companies reach out to us. So, for sure, we'll definitely look at continuing this conversation in season six, which will start in August, but we've got lots more exciting content coming up in season five, after our safari series, we're going to actually do a quick two-part look at rail in Europe. It's a topic we have not covered before. We're going to have the CEO of Rail Europe join us, as well as the CEO of Rail Bookers, and then we're going to do another deep dive into the world of guided touring, whether you call it escorted touring or, as TourRadar would refer to it, organized adventures. We're going to speak to the biggest players in the guided touring industry and understand the background and where it is today and where it's headed in the future, especially with small group and this concept of adventure, and how many of these established players have evolved to remain relevant and are seeing some of the most successful growth of their entire history. So there's many fascinating conversations and of course that's part of my background and I was really keen to bring this series together. So that is coming up. And then we're going to have a deep dive into river cruises, which is very aligned with guided touring. As you'll see, a number of these companies actually operate in both areas. So we're going to have a number of interesting companies that overlap into both those categories and then we're going to finish off season five with a look at in destination experiences. So lots to look forward to. Season five is really just getting underway.
Speaker 2:We always appreciate your feedback. Please take a moment to give us a review on apple or Spotify. We love hearing your feedback, and also we're putting more and more effort into our YouTube channel, so make sure that you check out some of the clips and the highlights there, as well as on Instagram and LinkedIn. And then, of course, we do send out our monthly newsletter with a summary of all the latest episodes and our travel plans for the next month. I'm going to be doing a lot more travel and you can find all of those dates on our events page on TravelTransPodcastcom, so if you're going to be at any of those events, be sure to reach out. It'd be great to meet you in person and, wherever possible, I look to incorporate those of you into the podcast. I hope you're enjoying this series and I look forward to bringing you one more episode. Until then, safe travels.
