Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Staying on Track: Rail Travel in 2025 Part 2 with Frank Marini, CEO, Railbookers
Frank Marini’s rise from the mailroom at Collette Vacations to CEO of Railbookers Group is a masterclass in travel industry leadership. Recorded live at ITB Berlin, this episode dives into how Frank has built a fully remote company with 350+ staff across six countries and driven an impressive 36% growth by 2025.
What sets Railbookers apart? A focus on crafting complete rail vacations with over 6,000 customizable itineraries across destinations like Switzerland, Italy, and Ireland. Blending transportation, accommodations, and experiences, their packages cater to discerning travelers, averaging 10.5-day trips at $6,000 per person. Bookings are split evenly between direct consumers and travel advisors.
Frank’s passion for innovation is clear in his approach to AI. Armed with MIT training, he’s rolled out an enterprise-wide AI strategy, giving every employee access to advanced tools and developing a proprietary system to enhance rail-related answers. This tech-savvy approach aligns with his commitment to exceptional customer service, as outlined in his new book, Staying on Track.
“Rail is the new river cruising,” Frank observes, signaling the rapid growth and luxury appeal of rail travel. Tune in for insights into this evolving industry and the future of rail adventures.
Season 5 Launched Jan 15th. New Episodes Every Weds! Check out our first 4 Seasons.
https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/
A lot of things I read are about a different industry. It has nothing to do with travel, but I'm like, hey, I can apply that in this industry. So that's most of what we do we look to see how another industry is doing it and we apply it to ours.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to Travel Trends. This is your host, dan Christian, and today we're going to be speaking with the CEO of Railbookers, frank Morini. We actually recorded this live at the ITB conference in Berlin, thanks to the Focusrite team for letting us use their booth. I actually had a couple of calls with Frank leading up to this interview and both of us wanted to record live in person if possible, and sure enough, we were able to make it happen and I was keen to put this together as this two-part rail series. Last week, we spoke to Bjorn Bender, the CEO of Rail Europe, and today we're going to get many insights from Frank about how he built this company over the last 15 years and his role as president and CEO. And one of the things that really stood out to me about Frank and one of the reasons that people kept telling me that I need to meet Frank is because he is incredibly interested in AI as well and how it's going to transform the rail industry. And clearly we've been talking a lot about AI on our podcast out of the last AI summit and we've got some exciting details coming up for you shortly about our AI summit for 2025. But that was just one of the reasons that I wanted to speak to Frank, because so many colleagues that we both share were surprised that we had never met. And now I understand why because we genuinely got along and we had so much in common. So I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation.
Speaker 2:I want to just give a little bit of background to this focus area and specifically rail, because I shared some stats that I think our listeners found quite interesting in our first episode, just about the growth of the rail industry for travel compared to the size of the river cruise industry, being about 2 billion in this sector, being 74 billion today and growing to 128 billion over the next three to five years. But when you look at a company like Railbookers, they now have more than 300 staff. 2024 was a record year for them. They brought their team together at the end of the year to celebrate being up 30% and their forward bookings for 2025 were already up 31%. And this is where you see a company that is just the stars are aligning with terms of having a great team, having great technology and having great product, and you'll certainly get a sense today in this interview with Frank why these stars are aligning and the success of his company that is growing globally. So I really wanted to look at rail.
Speaker 2:I'm a big fan of traveling by rail, as many of you may have heard in that first episode, and for me, when I look at a company like Railbookers that is doing something truly innovative by taking rail and how it's evolving and shaping the ways that we can travel and reach places and actually give travelers the opportunity to go to smaller towns and be able to stay in local properties and be able to eat out at restaurants. And, interesting, one of the stats, as I was preparing for this discussion with Frank, that stood out to me is that the number one trip that is booked in addition to rail is food tours, wine tastings, cooking classes. That's really what people are looking for. And the other part that stands out to me is they're looking at museums and historical tours all things that really speak to me. The average trip for someone booking a trip with railbookers in 2025 is about 10 days. 70% of them are booking for a week or longer, and so they're staying longer in destination. They're spending more, which was some of the interesting stats that really stood out to me and then they're catering to this new luxury audience and one of the trips that they have and you'll hear a bit about this in our discussion is the first of its kind around the world by luxury train journey, so I look forward to sharing more details with you on that as we get into our discussion.
Speaker 2:Now, before we jump right in, we wanted just to highlight very quickly that all of the clips and highlights from our episodes are up on our social channels, so be sure to check out LinkedIn, youtube and Instagram at Travel Trends Podcast. And as a follow-on to this episode, we're going to have a special spotlight episode on Focusrite Europe, which I recorded in the booth as well to highlight their event coming up in June, where we're going to be recording and all of our listeners have the opportunity to get an extra 100 euro discount. Just go to our website. You'll see the link or sign up for our newsletter even better so you'll get all the updates. And as we continue on the path with spotlight episodes for 2025, we're going to be really focusing on four areas. We're going to be looking at destinations, so doing destination spotlights. We're going to do startup and company profile spotlights, some executive profiles and then events, and events is what you're going to see quite a few of this year as we attend more and more events. We're going to be releasing spotlight episodes and we'll have one coming up very shortly from the Educational Travel Consortium Conference as well. But the Focusrite episode will launch next week with Pete, the managing director of Focusrite, and Florence, who runs everything in Europe, so she's going to help us shape the series that we're going to record there live. So if you're going, make sure that you reach out and we'd love to find time to record with you. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2:And now back to the show. Now let's get back into the world of rail travel and bring in a true expert and an incredible innovator who's been leading the way with creating these rail packaged holidays. As you'll hear from Frank, he started at Collette, he worked at the Travel Corporation and led Contiki USA for a number of years, and he went to go work for the Yankee Group, which became Railbookers and is now part of Railbookers, and over the last 15 years, himself and the partners there have really revolutionized how travelers and travel agents book rail. So, frank, it's a real pleasure to have you on. Thanks so much for joining us on Travel Trends.
Speaker 1:Great to be here. Thanks, dan, it's great to meet you in person For sure?
Speaker 2:No, Steve Forelli is a common friend for us both was adamant that I was like Dan, have you met Frank? And we actually passed like ships of the night, as it turns out, at the travel corporation for many years, and some of our other colleagues, when I mentioned that we were going to be recording together, like how did you never meet Frank? Everyone obviously highly regards you. You're a very well-respected executive in this industry. You've got a remarkable backstory. We're going to get into that as well. You've got a new book that you've come out with.
Speaker 2:And also one of the things that Steve had highlighted which is why we definitely had to get Frank on the Travel Trends podcast is because he's taken a big passion and interest in AI and actually even took some time off to actually attend in-person an AI course at MIT Impressive, yes. And he took that away and is applying it to his business already. So for many reasons, I'm thrilled that Frank is here. But, Frank, let's start with your background, because obviously you've got an East Coast accent it's not New York, but tell everyone where you're from and your background in the travel industry.
Speaker 1:Sure Dan. So I'm originally from Rhode Island, lincoln, rhode Island, that's in New England, rhode Island. So my background is I started working in the mailroom of Collette Vacations in high school. I was at my part time job and, you know, from there went into marketing as an intern in college, got into law school but decided not to go to law school because I got a chance to go on a fam trip with Collette, came back and thought that's great, let me put off law school for a year and I can go on a fam trip and I'll stay with Colette. And I never went back to law school.
Speaker 2:So from there, started my career at Colette, which was amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, so Colette, of course, is one of our title sponsors for season five, and the Colette company, I mean, it's a family owned business, as you well know, and so this is where I thought it was really fascinating.
Speaker 2:As I got to know Frank, We've had a few calls leading up to meeting here in Berlin and I didn't realize that. I mean, obviously you read someone's LinkedIn profile, but it's not until you really get to speak to someone and know their story and their journey, because you were with Colette and then you moved away and then came back, and this is where you've got such a great reputation, because you spent a number of years at the Travel Corporation you headed up Contiki USA, for example and so you have certainly earned your stripes in the travel industry, and anyone who wants to find out more about your background certainly can obviously check you out on LinkedIn. But let's jump to railbookers. So you've got this legacy in the industry. How did the opportunity come about with railbookers and I know it's evolved to you being an owner of this company now. So, yeah, tell us about that company and that journey.
Speaker 1:Sure. So when I started, it actually used to be Yankee Leisure Group. When I started, and basically years back when I was at Contiki doing youth trips, my current business partner and co-owner, john Tavano, had another youth company called 1-800-Montreal and Yankee Holidays at the time and they used to offer some of our Contiki holidays and I got to be friends with John, got to know him and then, back maybe 2012, he had asked me to come over as a co -owner and to run the company and at that time we had Amtrak vacations, which we still have today in Yankee holidays. And I didn't know anything about rail travel. I didn't know anything about FIT travel because my background was all group escorted tours globally, but I could see a huge opportunity and that's how it happened Lots of fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to ask you what happens when you call 1-800-Montreal.
Speaker 1:I don't know. That's a good question. That company doesn't exist anymore, but that was John's company started years ago doing bus trips for students going from New England to Montreal for the weekend.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really cool. I just love when these businesses I mean, they're kind of like back in the Yellow Pages when it was AAA and like it was. How do you get your business listed and featured? Long before SEO was a thing. I just thought that's funny as we prepare to talk about AI.
Speaker 2:But tell us a bit about Railbookers as a business today, because we also have some other colleagues in common. This is bookers as a business today, because we also have some other colleagues in common. This is the amazing thing about our industry that clearly we've both spent our careers in and and love this space. Chris david is a good friend of mine. We literally live in the same neighborhood. We uh end up walking our dogs together some evening. So, uh, chris, shout out to you because I had not met uh frank before, as you know, and obviously you guys work very closely together and, uh, I'll actually learn from chris more about rail bookers and from Steve as well, and I've come to have, I guess, a great respect and appreciation for this business you've built, because I love rail. So, yeah, tell us all about Railbookers, the size of the business today, your team structure, because I know one of the things I think is really cool. You guys are all remote.
Speaker 1:Yep, totally so. For us, for Railbookers Group, we've got the Railbookers brand, which is global, outside of the US, rail travel around the world and then Amtrak Vacations we operate in the US. So you know, for us how Railbookers came about is we had the Amtrak Vacations brand and we started to expand that outside the US and Railbookers was actually one of our customers and they were selling our Amtrak Vacations product and we recognized really quickly they had all the European rail contracts and were an FIT model and we could see a huge opportunity there. And actually today oddly enough, today is nine years to the day we bought rail bookers. It was today, actually, nine years ago. Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Globally? Yeah, it's been amazing. And where are you guys now in terms of the size of the business, your growth plans? I mean, obviously you're based in the US, but rail is very much a European phenomenon. I really hope that. And Asia, I should say as well. Certainly Japan, and we'll get into a lot of detail about rail travel. But, yeah, tell us a little bit around, I guess, where you guys are today as a business and your growth plans.
Speaker 1:Sure. So today, last year, if I look at last year, we ended last year at 30% up and today we have 350 plus staff in six countries and 34 states will get into that being fully remote and we've just been on fire and we're tracking this year already up 36% going into this year, and there's no stopping rail. It's exploding. Rail is the new river cruising to me and it's just. I feel very lucky in the space that we're in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Actually, I hadn't heard it expressed like that, because certainly we saw that phenomenon of everyone all of a sudden had to do a river cruise, and rail is one of those things that's almost gone through a renaissance, especially when we talk about sustainability and environmental footprint and certainly the challenges that come with flying anywhere and being here in Europe. Actually, one of the speakers that was coming across with me today on the transfer, he was from the Netherlands and he actually took a train here and that was a five hour train ride and I was like she's preferred way to travel, which we know it's probably the best way to get around Europe, with the exception of also a river cruise. I guess you could do both Right. So, yeah, tell us a bit about rail travel and the market in 2025.
Speaker 2:What is the size of the market? What are some of the major markets? You say you've got team members in six different countries. Are you focused on the global rail opportunity? You're primarily focused on Europe. Yeah, how have you kind of structured your business?
Speaker 1:So we have staff in the US, canada, the UK, australia today, as well as India and the Philippines. Those are our staff, are located by our source markets. Where our customers are coming from are the US, canada, the UK, australia, new Zealand, and for us we go to any destination, any date, for any length of time. If the train goes there, so do we. So it's really a very flexible, large opportunity that we have where we're based and for the rail market in general it's as far and wide as you can imagine, because rail means something different to every customer.
Speaker 2:It could be a post river cruise, it could be a cross country, it could be luxury rail, you name it, yeah. So that's actually helpful context, because when I think about rail bookers, one of the things that I wasn't clear on was how much of the business is B2C and B2B. And so tell usa little bit about that, because I know you work with a lot of travel agent partners who obviously are very keen to be able to sell rail, given the interest and the demand. So you tell us how you've approached your distribution Sure.
Speaker 1:So we're a 50% B2B, 50% B2C and on the B2B side we're preferred with every major consortium and travel consortium in each market we're in. So whether that's AAA, Virtuoso, Signature, Travel Leaders Network, even in the US, but in every major market we are and we're so thankful for them because what we provide is we make rail travel easy. I like to say we speak train Because, if you think about it, the amount of different rail lines around the world, whether luxury or rail, they're all different. So they're almost like all different cars of all different makes, models and years. So for a travel advisor to know which route, where to sit on the train, how to book it, they're all different. There's no commonalities, and that's where we come in.
Speaker 2:One of the executives that's also part of Season 5 is the CEO of Rail Europe, and so tell us a little bit. I think that's a brand that many people would be familiar with, especially when they think of a year rail pass and actually when our listeners have a chance to listen to that episode, I didn't realize that they were actually founded in New York in the 1930s. So it's a fascinating story of these wealthy Americans that thought it would be a great time to invest in Rail Europe. Probably wasn't the best time in the 1930s, but obviously things came back in the 50s and the 60s. But yeah, tell us how your business compares to a company like Rail Europe who's based in Paris.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure. So the difference with someone like a company like Rail Europe that does a good job versus us is they're a rail ticketer and we're not just a rail ticketer. We don't sell rail tickets, we sell independent rail vacations. So rail is one component, it's the most important component, but it's also we have rail hotels, sightseeing excursions, and really that's where we come into play is how far is a hotel from here? What else can you do? Rails are our main component, but we're not just a rail ticketer.
Speaker 2:Cool. Now I appreciate that clarification. That's important because you know, hearing rail bookers, it's like do I go and book my, my business ticket to be able to get from london to paris? So let's talk about some of the product and experiences you put together. And for those of you that are following along at home that are multitasking, it's railbookerscom so you can see some of these experiences, like you know, riding the express to lake como and um. So yeah, tell us a few of the experiences I get, maybe even if you wouldn't mind, highlighting the top three itineraries that you know that Americans in particular seek out. That are, I guess, your specialties.
Speaker 1:Sure, so for us, because today we have over 6,000 itineraries, because everything is customizable, so it's really, from a package standpoint, it could be anything a customer or travel agent wants it to be. As far as our most popular outlet, let's say the US market or North American market Switzerland's number one, and there's so many combinations of Switzerland that you can go to. Definitely number one. Number two is Italy, and again so many different, not just your Venice, florence, rome, but Cinque Terre, you name it. All different routes and experiences, lengths of days. But you also have Ireland by rail is very big for us it's all around Iowa. People don't realize, so it really depends.
Speaker 2:And then typical duration and cost. If you might have been over, you were kindly talking about your source market, but yeah, just in terms of our listeners. Obviously you highlighted half for B2C and half for B2B. So if listeners to this are thinking I'd like to book a rail holiday or I've got clients that are interested, tell us, sort of I guess, what is the ideal customer profile for you and what I guess that means in terms of duration and the prices that you offer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, so again, because everything's customizable, they can almost hit a price point they're looking for. But in general I would say our customer is a 50 plus customer. They're independent, they want to be independent. Although we do a ton of post river cruising, we don't do river cruising, it's post-river cruising or post-trip, but it could really range. On the railbooker side, the average amount of days is 10.5 days they're traveling and around 6,000 or so per person. So it kind of gives you some idea. But again, that could be all the way from luxury rail like the Venice Simple on our express, to the national rail system.
Speaker 1:One interesting phenomenon last year is we saw our average age drop by two years because we saw this influx of honeymooners which we don't market to honeymooners in the 25 to 40, who wanted to go on something different, didn't want to just do a resort, but they wanted to travel around Europe and they wanted to have that independence. And we just got this influx from the travel trade we're so thankful from travel age. All of a sudden all these honeymooners travel with us. We just were like, oh thanks.
Speaker 2:Wasn't it? You mentioned honeymooners? Because we did a deep dive into the safaris and obviously you and I have a background connected to brands like African travel, and so we interviewed Wilderness and Sherwin Banner from African travel. We had some great guests on that series. One of the things when I was just doing research to prepare for those conversations that I found quite interesting because obviously I'm very keen in these conversations to kind of get those gems that you know, unlock that knowledge that is obviously unique to you and how you market your business and find your customers and one of the things that Sherwin had highlighted to me.
Speaker 2:Actually, lucille, originally I'm an office coach, you know Lucille, of course, she ran Lion World for many years and when we were collaborating together building out the Lion World website, the African travel website, she was highlighting to me the importance of celebration travel. Is that actually when it's a honeymoon in particular, and so when I was doing the research, half of the African safaris are booked by couples and then the other half are booked by what they call friends, but interestingly that group is actually growing quite significantly, especially because you've got solo female travelers that are looking to go on more organized tours, which I keep seeing the rise. Actually, when I arrived at the event, I picked up one of the I guess they produce like a daily newspaper here for this event and then they list out some of the trends, and one of them was rise in group travel.
Speaker 2:Our background is that it's actually outpaced independent travel. Our background is that it's actually outpaced independent travel and one of the contributing factors for this, as I've come to understand it, is the rise in solo travelers that actually want to travel as part of a group, which is many female travelers. So, yeah, tell us, let's dive into the trends for rail travel and let's talk about demographics. We'll talk about technology, but let's talk a little bit first just about the destinations that you see that our customers are really interested in, whether it's honeymooners or like you know what are some of the, I guess, the top destinations in 2025 and going into 2026?
Speaker 1:Sure, so in 2025, definitely, italy is still on fire. Italy and Switzerland nonstop. Ireland, norway we see Norway picking up the Scandinavian countries. Obviously, france is coming back strong. It was a little softer last year with the Olympics. We see that strong for destinations, but we see it really across the board because a lot of our. I'll give you an example Sicily does well for us by rail and, yes, you can take a ferry that the train goes on, the ferry from.
Speaker 2:Italy to Sicily. Wait a second. There's water between those two things, I know, but train goes right on.
Speaker 1:Why is that the last season of White Lotus in Sicily? Right, of course, so we see lots of these different trends across the board. You name it.
Speaker 2:Okay, and in terms of sustainability, that's one of the things I'm very keen to ask you, so I'm going to put that out there now. Keen to ask you, so I'm going to put that out there now. One of the things that did come up in my conversation with Bjorn at Rail Europe is that people choosing a sustainable option was a key driver, and it's something I always ask our guests, because I've been genuinely keen to understand, post-covid, how traveler behavior has changed. Obviously, that's very much the theme and focus for this show, and so where do you see sustainability driving behavior? Is that, in fact, why you are seeing people choose rail travel?
Speaker 1:That's a really good question. What we see is sustainability is important to everyone. There's no question on that but truthfully, we don't see that as the main driver. We don't see where people are calling and saying, hey, I want to take the train because it's sustainable, they're happy about that, that's like a bonus, but that's not a driver in there. What we do see more is the ease of use city-to-city location. I don't have to go out to an airport transfer there and then fly into the city and then get back into the city or I don't want to drive in that city. That tends to be the more important that they're asking about versus again, not that sustainability isn't important, but it's not a top driver. For our customers, it's more of the independent side and the city-to-city location that the train provides.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I was asked to speak at a conference in Quebec City earlier this year and could find that as an event spotlight Le Grand Remus, which was a fantastic conference, but it was all about sustainability and innovation.
Speaker 2:And they asked me if I'd kindly take the train and I thought that sounds like a great idea until I was over 13 hours and I was like this is not viable for me to be away for two.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love the idea of sitting on a train, but it's just not feasible. And then the reality is, like most consumers, it's about cost, it's about convenience, and so if you achieve those things which is much more likely in a market like Europe and then the interesting thing that has come up in our conversations with people like James Thornton from Intrepid is that people are choosing sustainable options when they think about repeat business. So if they're going to continue to travel a certain way, they want to make sure that it is sustainable. So let's keep going. Because obviously, the other thing I'm really keen to understand is demographic factors. We've got this rapidly aging baby boomer population. We've got this next generation of young travelers who are spending more on experiences. Where are you seeing the growth right now, and how is that changing some of either your marketing or your product offering?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great question. So a couple different ways. One, we're still seeing again the 50-plus market, but they're active seniors. They want that independence Again. They're getting on the train, they're taking their luggage. So we're seeing that continuing like we're definitely seeing it dropping in age, not just the honeymooners I talked about earlier, but people that want to experience in a way that they want to because, remember, they can customize the trip as they see it. So we see that as a growing trend. And you know what's interesting is most of our travelers, a lot of people ask me to say hey, your travelers, they're just train buffs. I'm like no one calls us for a rail vacation. They call us for a vacation but they want to use the train because they want the flexibility. And I'm like no one actually calls us for a rail vacation per se.
Speaker 2:People are surprised by that.
Speaker 1:But I think you know, for us, you know, rail is a component of the trip and it makes it. It's ease of use, especially on a vacation. You don't have to worry about a car rental in different places, or maybe you don't want to be with a group, so it gives you that flexibility of whoever you are as a traveler. To personalize it. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 2:And now back to the show. I want to get into technology and how that relates. So tell us a little bit about how you've built out the technology platform at Railbookers and then we'll get into AI specifically. But, yeah, tell us a little bit about do you see yourself as a technology company? I think that was always one of the things that I guess I would say I struggled with when companies like Expedia would say we're a technology company and the travel corporation is like we're actually a travel company who is getting pretty good at technology, but at the same time, the core business is offering great guest experiences, handling the operations. That's how that operational excellence was how that business thrived, and so that's first and foremost, with a company like Railbookers, how do you approach that in terms of the guest experience and the technology? And, yeah, talk me through how you guys have built out this platform and the team that's doing it.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure. So we look at ourselves as sure a technology first. But we're not a technology company. We're a customer service, guest-focused company, because at the end of the day someone's taking a vacation or a holiday. We're a want, not a need, and we recognize someone could have saved their whole life to take this trip and we take that real seriously. So that's kind of how we lead it For our technology ourselves. We have our own software engineers and built out our own platforms, our own internal hubs with rail and all different sightseeing. So we have that as well and we keep advancing that with one goal how do we make it easier for the customer and the travel advisor to get the answers that they need? And simplify rail travel, because that can be complicated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exciting. So now let's jump into the important topic that everyone wants to hear us discuss, which is AI. So talk us through your journey around wrapping your head around AI and why you decided to go to MIT and take this course.
Speaker 1:So AI has been around for a while, as we know.
Speaker 1:But reading a lot about AI two years ago and then when ChatGBT came out and just reading as much as I can as many books, harvard Business Review, everything I could read about it and then I saw a course come out as a week-long course at MIT, going leading a company in AI, and I took it and it really was a game changer for me, certain things in your life, and that was absolutely a game changer, not just obviously the school, the professors, the cohorts, the friends that I've made after, but just seeing the opportunities for ai. And the thing I would say is in that course, you know we had people from the dod, insurance company, medical companies. You know serious companies with serious restrictions will travel. You don't have those kind of restrictions. So the what we can do with ai and seeing all how other companies are handling where they may have some restrictions, we don't. It was just limitless and we've really starting from that. A year ago we engaged the whole company immediately in AI and I can go through some examples.
Speaker 2:So, yes, I would love for you to be able to share what were the big takeaways from you. I mean, it's always challenging to discuss this topic simply because there is so many layers of understanding like beginner, intermediate, advanced. Obviously, you went in there so that you could get to at least intermediate. And actually, one of the terms I had just heard from PWC at a session at the Forbes Travel Guide Summit, the summit in Monaco was moving from AI experimentation to AI excellence, which is what organizations want to be able to do.
Speaker 2:It's like no longer just playing around with some chatbots. It's like, well, how do we build this into the core of the company? And I do feel very strongly that we're going through another one of those shifts that's as significant as the dot-com era and maybe even more significant than the mobile era, when we were starting to design for mobile first. It's like we're now in a very AI first world and we're at the earliest stages. I'm a huge baseball fan, so I'm like this is barely the top of the first inning, right Totally. But tell us what were some of the big takeaways and learnings for you that you think would be interesting to all of our listeners.
Speaker 1:Sure. So the biggest takeaway is a lot of companies focus, I noticed right away on AI in terms of how can we do things not only faster, but you don't need as much labor to do that. Right, and sure, that's important. But I immediately looked at it more on how do we make it easier from a guest experience image, focus on the customer, the front end first.
Speaker 1:So what we did and some of the takeaways coming back were we looked at every position in the company and broke it down and just said broke it down by tasks and functions and what can be a human, what can be a machine. So we did that first. The second thing we did is we got an enterprise license for everyone in the company at ChatGBT and just told them to play with it. We gave them some restrictions, but just play with it. And then every week we'd have different team members in different departments come up with what they came up with to make it easy with the whole focus of how do we make this easier for our customer and travel agent. That could be knowledge and everything and that's really expanded. We finished last year with our own global summit, basically with a combination of AI and human, and we had an expert in AI present to us and we had Lee Cockrell, the former executive VP of Disney World, talk some customer service and bringing them both together and that's really our focus.
Speaker 2:So tell us how you with those examples, obviously with getting the team members engaged and I love that because obviously my role for many years the travel corporations is chief digital officer, which I laugh at that title now because even friends of me at the time say isn't all travel digital now but you're trying to drive change across an organization. So trying to give someone that title that will actually help the organization evolve and adapt and certainly my experience there was that change is hard and that you know and we're all creatures of habit and there is a natural aversion to trying something new. So giving people the tools and encouraging them to play with it Not everyone's going to excel at that but obviously highlighting the people that are embracing it. So yeah, so very important. Obviously building a culture of innovation at rail bookers, but in terms of actually implementing it in a way that's meaningful for the consumer or even for efficiency games, for reducing costs, what has been some of the benefits that you've realized of leveraging that technology?
Speaker 1:So lots of different benefits and, just to go back, I think engaging the whole company, starting with myself, leading it, sharing with them and giving it to all of them, and then having real examples of what I was learning every week, what they're learning, got everyone on board.
Speaker 1:So our whole team's on board. They're really excited about it because it's not fearful like, oh, is this going to take away my job? Job may be upscale, but we want to share with everyone and some of the learnings have been anything from sure helping out on the creativity side, on the marketing side, campaign side, but also the large amounts of data we collect and we collect tons of data and to be able to break that down immediately into usable data that can be actionable towards our customers, towards our travel agent, has been instrumental. The amount of times it would take to go through this amount of data huge, but we can go through every single aspect of the company. Everything is simple, from our HR department taking our handbook, putting it in a closed AI. So instead of waiting for HR to email back, you can just ask every benefit question it can answer for Something as simple as that to large amounts of data that all of a sudden speak to you in a way that it hadn't before, because it would just take too long to aggregate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that and this is where trying to understand how these practical applications there was a colleague that I got a chance to meet. He was actually in Quebec City JP Deschanaux is his name and he's a lawyer by training. He decided to kind of step back. He's a very young, successful guy, similar to yourself in many ways, frank, but he decided to create AI solutions within his travel companies and he was not technical and he just started embracing the technology and he actually ran a session and he did a 30-minute presentation to create a travel business literally from scratch the concept, the brand name, the website and even launched a marketing campaign with a commercial all in 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:These are things that you and I would know would take at least three months or six months or longer, and he did it in 30 minutes using AI tools and it blew everyone's mind and I was incredibly impressed by it. But one of the things he'd highlighted to me when I had a chance to chat with him afterwards, he was showing me how he took chat, gpt, makecom and Gmail and with one of his team members that was spending 800 hours a year responding to emails and set up an automated solution where it literally makecom took the email from gmail, fed it to chat gpt and then replied with a response and it reduced her hours by 600 hours a year unbelievable down to 200. And he's like I'm not looking to replace her, I'm not actually, I'm just trying to actually make our more efficient and so yeah, so please, let's continue on a couple other examples, because I'm sure, like this is where someone like you who's gone ahead, got that learning for yourself, brought that innovation to the business. You're only at the beginning stages of realizing all the benefits. So, yeah, tell us a few more examples of how you're using it and also, if you wouldn't mind, frank, how you're, I guess, reorganizing your business to make sure that you are more of an AI first AI led organization, that you can realize all the benefits of this technology.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, going back to your point earlier. I mean, we are literally at the first inning, and even myself the first inning. So we're constantly pushing it. And where we are now is I challenge the team, saying look at every single thing you do every single day, every single task, put it in AI, use AI for it and the learnings so they become faster. But other things doing with it. We'll take contracts as an example. Put them in our closed AI and basically say, hey, look at this contract, what's it missing? What questions should we ask? Are we negotiating it correctly? So everything you can imagine that we're using it for, in a way to help better ourselves and to make sure that it's usable, and we're saving hours on things with the whole idea of we want to make it better for our customer and travel advisor, other things that we're doing. Just as an example, even myself personally, I'm going back to MIT in a few weeks taking another second two-week course, advanced course, to continue on the journey, because already in a year what's changed? It's unbelievable how fast it's moving.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I think most of us are also just can't believe. We're kind of astonished at the pace of change, because even with the latest operator model, where you know, now you can actually have an agent book travel on your behalf. What does that mean? Even the fact that we're moving beyond this age of search engine optimization and actually figuring out how to design websites for AI agents that can actually read them and interpret the information so all these things are being kind of thrust upon us very quickly. I mean, half of travelers now are using AI to create their itineraries. Whether you like it or not, it's happening and people are embracing this technology and, as you say, it's still early. So what are some of the things you're paying attention to, I guess, in the travel industry, or specifically in the rail, with how you think this is going to impact and change our business?
Speaker 1:Well, I think one way definitely, people are searching with AI that's like you talked about, that. That's no doubt, no question. And when they're searching general AI, as an example, there are hallucinations. So sometimes we'll even get a call from a customer saying I want to take this route from here to here, but that route doesn't exist anymore. That was washed out years ago.
Speaker 2:It's not just because there's actually a tunnel underneath or a boat, actually. No, it's a boat, it's literally hallucinating.
Speaker 1:That doesn't even exist. That doesn't even exist. So for us, that's why one of the things we're doing is we're building out our own data lake, AI. We have since last year, I hired one of my classmates who was in my MIT course and him and our innovation team are building out our own AI, data-like knowledge-based system with those secret sauce we have on the rail. So that's one side.
Speaker 1:The other thing I can say is you know, with AI, it's really just playing with it, and the biggest thing that I'm finding, I think for everyone, is it's really how to ask questions. It's prompting and that's something you're learning and we're getting more and more. I think everyone is advanced over time. It's all in the better questions you ask AI. It's really a dialogue, not a monologue.
Speaker 1:And just one quick story when I finished that MIT course, I went to visit my son in college and my son is on the spectrum with autism and I went to see him and he didn't know I was coming from MIT and he wanted to show me his presentation for his course and he did a presentation on AI and he came up with this concept, not knowing where I just came from, and said you know, Dad, I came up with this for people like me who have learning disabilities, because it's a full-time tutor. It breaks things down to make it simple for me and I don't have to feel stupid asking questions. And I was blown away, but that stuck with me in terms of how our company, our customers, use AI to make it easier to do their day-to-day in a faster, more efficient way, and so that's kind of a foundation we look at to make it better for our customers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like what you described there and obviously I appreciate you mentioning such a personal story with your son, because, on a human level, how is this going to impact us individually or our family members, but also, given our specific needs, one of the things that I think Sachin Adela has done an incredible job at Microsoft. His son, zane, who sadly passed away just recently, was born with many difficulties and it was one of the things that he talked about was that at first he had this overwhelming kind of sense of why me, when his son was born that way and it was just like, and then he realized that it was a really an opportunity and a gift to understand how people can function in the world with these challenges and how you can need to be compassionate, which is another wonderful human qualities of empathy, so understanding how your son functions and like high needs and then like leveraging technology now. So, anyway, that's a really meaningful story. I appreciate you sharing that. I guess that's where I want to go to.
Speaker 2:Next is if we move beyond AI and we think about how humans are traveling, because, again, this is where I don't ever want to get too far either ahead of ourselves or also lose the human touch Because, at the end of the day, we are sitting in front of each other in berlin at a conference physical, in person, and, as much as the world changes, there is this human desire to connect totally in the real world. We're social creatures and it's like you know. There's also the concern that you know we're more disconnected than ever this whole loneliness epidemic. We're spending so much time on social media. There are obviously negative consequences associated with some of this rapid technological change. So if we just bring it back on a human level and we think about how people are traveling in 2025, obviously rails will go back to that as part of it.
Speaker 2:But I would just like to understand what sort of shifts you're seeing in consumer behavior, and that can be anything from, you know, wellness or luxury or some of the things that I guess what you're seeing there. I would call them signals that you're kind of like you're hearing from your guests or your customers as they're reaching out to you to say I like this trip, but can you also do this, or do you have that? What are some of the other signals you're paying attention to about how consumer behavior is changing?
Speaker 1:Sure. So what we definitely see is two major things. One I like to call little luxury. So everyone likes luxury, but I find a lot of little luxury because everyone's traveling for a special occasion. But hey, in that one city I want to have special experience, I want to stay at a higher hotel, just in that one because it's my anniversary. So we're seeing a real continuous of little luxury. I call it across the board. And the other thing is the experiences. People are absolutely looking for experiences, whether it's culinary experience, sightseeing experience, to touch it, to feel it, to smell it, to get out there. And they're looking at every area about how do I have an experience in that destination? That's relative to what's important to me. So we're constantly adding more and more experience. But that's customer and travel agent driven.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Okay, that's a cool trend. All right, that's one to pay attention, to Give us a few more. That are like are those signals that you're just like, wait a second, there's an opportunity here? Because I think that's what really excites me about some of these conversations is that all of a sudden you can kind of untap a market opportunity, whether it be, and obviously maybe some of this other signals, if you wouldn't mind, that you and the team are paying attention to. Because, as I heard just recently, here we are in 2025. And in the cruise industry, nearly 70% of the cruises are sold out for 2025. And everyone's quickly trying to launch 2026 and beyond. So I'm not sure how that compares with the world of rail travel, but I'm assuming you're already planning for 26.
Speaker 1:Oh, we've already got bookings for 26. So what I would say, shout out to the cruise line. So thank you guys for coming out with pricing so earlier, because we benefit from that. So when I created this model 13 years ago, I basically said, hey, let's price two years out, and every year every night we price two years in a day, which doesn't really exist on rails. So we do that and part of that was due to the fact of, with cruise lines coming out so early, the demand we get.
Speaker 1:We don't sell cruises but for people that want to do post-cruise their own thing, so we do like a ton as an example in Basel. I use Basel as an example, switzerland, where we'll get calls from travel advisors and customers that, well, we're finishing in Basel but we don't want to fly home. Can we take the train and go down to St Moritz for a few nights and then we would go down to San Como for a few nights and then down to Venice. So we're seeing wild product growth all over the place which is pre and post-cruise driven because they're already going over there. That's a huge trend we see and as the cruise lines come back so strong, we're benefiting that on the pre and post-end organically. So we're very thankful for our cruise and river cruise friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good point. That's really something I learned from the cruise industry as well Ellen Betridge, who we work with. She came from Ocean Cruise and then to river, and a lot of things that she actually brought into their travel corporation business was this idea of forward bookings, Like you know. Get it out as early as possible and give people a chance to book two years ahead and they will, and it's remarkable. Let's bring it back to Railbookers and where you're headed in the next two to three years, your vision for this business. Tell us a little bit about your growth plans and your ambitions. You talked about AI. We talked about the remote first culture, which I love that you're continuing because it seems to be under attack in many organizations, which I'm sure gives you the opportunity to hire some great people that maybe don't want to go back to the office with other companies gives you the opportunity to hire some great people that maybe don't want to go back to the office with other companies.
Speaker 2:And I learned from quite a wise businessman at one point when he made a comment to me as I was working on social media guidelines as ridiculous as that seems now, but trying to implement social media across the business and making sure you had very kind of rigid or strict guidelines of what people can or couldn't do and the comment he made to me was like, well, if you don't trust them, why did you hire them? And I think that applies to remote working is that you can get some of the best people that will thrive in that environment and do their best work for you, and they love the flexibility and so yeah, but tell us a little bit about where you guys are headed in the next year or two?
Speaker 1:Sure. So on the remote side, we're going to continue that. It's been five years fully remote and we would not be able to scale at the level we are today if we weren't remote. Because now when we hire a position, we say where on earth should that position be, regardless of its software engineer, marketing, sales, because it keeps the machine going all the time. The second, we can hire the best people. And third, I will say our staff is at a religious level, supportive of the company, because they get to work remotely. And I'll give you a stat Last year alone I think we had almost 100,000 applications to work at our company because of being remote. So we really have our pick.
Speaker 1:On the growth side, we see rail as, just again, it's the new river cruising. It's not something we'll be opening up in Singapore as a source market to tap into the ASEAN countries and then expand after that to be closer to 60% of the world's population. And interesting, when I went to Singapore last year to meet with some partners about launching the appetite for rail is extraordinary. And then lack of knowledge of rail is not there, but the appetite to do it as well. So we're going to continue that growth pattern around the world, because rail is a common denominator for no matter where you're from.
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Speaker 2:And now back to the show. Before we wrap up, I had a few final questions for you, so you've told us a little bit about what's next for railbookers. I would love for you to share two pieces of advice, and then I'm going to ask you one closing question. But one of the pieces of advice I'd love for you to share is for aspiring entrepreneurs or leaders, because you have gone from essentially an intrapreneur in many ways, which is a term that has been around for a while, but I don't think that someone who's truly entrepreneurial by nature but is able to navigate a corporate environment and I think that is something that I would say that we have in common, and I think that's why I was as successful as I was in the corporate world, even though I was always an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:But you just find a way to get things done and make things happen. There's a sort of a mentality around an entrepreneur that you just like it's just, you don't take no for an answer and just keep finding your way forward, right and um, and it ends up propelling you in the corporate world because you're not just stuck in your role, in your paradigm, right. So, and then here we are, like and this is where, like you know, everyone's told me you got to meet Frank and like, it's just so impressive and it's like and truly you are. And so I guess what I would also like you to share with our listeners, for that person out there that could benefit from your advice, what, what would you share with them to make their way in their career?
Speaker 1:So two things I think.
Speaker 1:One is, if you're lucky enough to have the right mentor, you know who you work for and I've been very lucky to you know.
Speaker 1:My mentors are Dan Sullivan, executive chairman of Collette, brett Tolman, richard Launderer those are my mentors, dave Hosking and all took me under their wing and to have them as leaders as I was coming up was just phenomenal, you know and to learn from them as fast as you can. So that would be the first thing who you're working for and try to get learn as much as you can. So that would be the first thing who you're working for and try to learn as much as you can. The second thing, which is really a simple one, but it gets overlooked many times, is continually to focus on the customer and listen to them and what they're asking, whether that's a travel agent customer, the end customer and too many times I think people, especially in travel, they fall into what they like and not what the customer likes or what they're buying or the questions. And we're adamant about paying attention to that and developing everything exactly on that, because you're immediately successful, because you're fulfilling what's out there versus what you think will be successful. So those would be the two things.
Speaker 2:That's a great group of individuals there. I highly respect all of them and I'm glad that you recognize them. I'm obviously familiar with Brett and Richard and Dave, and I've just come to understand more about Dan Sullivan and the Sullivan family, having worked with the team over at Collette, and it's very much a family-owned company similar culture and dynamics. So interesting that you've had those two experiences. The other one I wanted to share with everyone in terms of advice was any AI tools or platforms or just for someone getting started on their journey. I don't want to miss that opportunity to ask you, given the conversation we've had, what would be your recommendations advice to kind of get started on your journey, or some practical, actionable tips.
Speaker 1:You know there's a, there's a lot of, there's a couple of things. So so I would say, on the AI side, is you got to get into and just play around with it? I use all of them. You know chat, but I use Poe. Poe is the one I use the most because it can search all other AIs and you can have it run through Mistral and Cloud and a few others. So that is some great AI newsletters out there and I follow a number of AI innovators on X to just see what's coming out and what's new and different trends. So I would just keep it on the regular and then playing around with it and seeing what's out there, but just keeping yourself educated, because even though, like, a lot of the things I read are about a different industry, it has nothing to do with travel, but I'm like, hey, I can apply that in this industry. So that's most of what we do we look to see how another industry is doing it and we apply it to ours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, fantastic advice, and I'll make sure that we put some of those in the show notes as well. The last question I had for you and I also want to mention your new book, because you kindly brought a copy for me, which I was thrilled about. After we spoke on the phone, you were like, can I get your address? And I was like I'll buy it. I'm happy to buy it because I want to support you, but it is available on Amazon, so we can talk about the book in a moment, but the in a moment. But the last thing I would love to hear is much more on a personal level, about one of your favorite rail travel memories or experiences with you or your family. What was that trip and why does it stand out to you?
Speaker 1:You know there's two of them, but there's so many and lucky enough to do so many, so one would be when my boys were younger in 2013,. We did the Empire Builder from Chicago a couple nights, did the Empire Builder from Chicago a couple nights, did the Empire Builder to Glacier National Park for a few nights and then overnight to Seattle, and just when my kids were younger at that age, taking that trip with the bunks and the roomettes. It was just. You know, trains are cool for kids, so we all still talk about that. That would be one. And then last year I got a chance. I was lucky enough to go from Vancouver right to Toronto on Via Rail, on the Canadian, which is iconic trains.
Speaker 1:And lucky enough to be in prestige class and what an amazing the amount of scenery, the different as you go into Vancouver and the prairie lands and I mean Ontario is absolutely amazing, Stunning. We had a blast and just meeting some of the coolest people on the train, from Canadians, actually A lot of Canadians from Vancouver Island, Australians. It was just awesome.
Speaker 2:I appreciate bringing Canada into the conversation, frank. Obviously you know that's where I'm based. I'm based in Toronto and obviously it's a challenging time for US-Canadian relationships at the moment. But I love the United States, I love Americans and I was saying this to you before we sat down, and it's one of the things that there are many challenges that we always can face in the travel industry and we're obviously under new challenging times and I look forward to people like us finding a way to navigate.
Speaker 2:And I think, if anything, we're also living in a time where the types of conversations that we're having become that much more important, because people are trying to pay attention to the signals that they should follow to figure out where the business is today.
Speaker 2:I mean, literally, this started as a result of the pandemic and what travel or behavior looked like on the other side. And I'm realizing more and more from our guests and from our listeners who keep reaching out to say, talk about the tariffs or get into the geopolitics or get into these subjects, not to be political but to actually help travel companies understand how they should be navigating this challenging time, and colleagues of mine, that also colleagues of yours that have highlighted to me that bookings dropped off substantially in February of 2025, given some of this uncertainty, and what does does that mean? And you know, travel always does come back and it comes back different, or travelers choose new destinations. So so, anyway, I'm excited for you for many reasons, based on this incredible company you've built. And, just to finish on that very positive note, let's talk about staying on track lessons from a customer focused travel disruptor. So what brought about this book? Tell us a bit about it and how people can find it.
Speaker 1:So sure. So we've been talking about that for a while and my business partner, John Tavano, and I. He really pushed me to write the book. He's like you know, you've got so much to say on this stuff and customer-focused. We should write a book on it. So I decided to, and it was about a year and a half process, let me tell you, but it was a fun process.
Speaker 1:But to go through every aspect about really paying attention to the customer and where there's opportunities and if you can satisfy their needs and make them and you really listen to them on a regular basis, it pays a pass to success and growth. And that was really what it was about. And talking a lot about how we're using AI, talking about how we're trying to give the best customer service, but also the questions. Sometimes I talk a lot about how we're using AI, talking about how we're trying to give the best customer service, but also the questions Sometimes I talk a lot about in the book. It's really about the question you're trying to solve and that may change over time, and you're asking yourself those questions and making sure that answers are from your customers.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, even just looking at the table of contents, I'm really looking forward to reading it. But your story, our story, our team, product development, marketing technology, literally and AI, of course, the next chapter in customer service, the global summit that you mentioned, that you ran. So I think there's lots I will learn from this, and I'm sure many others will as well. So, Frank, I can't thank you enough for making the time for this in your busy schedule here at ITB Berlin. I'm so glad we've had the opportunity to meet to get to know each other now, and I just wanted to thank the Focusrite team, because we're actually sitting in their booth.
Speaker 1:Thanks guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who kindly gave us space to record at the back, and you'll see some pictures of this on social media if you want to check them out at DCTrips or at Travel Trends Podcast. There won't be any video highlights because we've just captured the audio here, but there was many gems from this conversation so we'll likely put a few clips out there. But, yeah, frank, I want to say thank you. I want to say congratulations on building such a strong company and culture and clearly you're on a credible success trajectory and I hope that continues for many years to come and I look forward to continuing our friendship.
Speaker 1:Same here, Dan. I just want to say thanks again too, and I just wanted to say one thing I had the same experience when people were like you haven't met Dan yet. How do you not know Dan? So, everyone, I'm so happy to meet you in person. Thank you so much and really appreciate the time and having you consider me. So thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for joining us on this two-part rail series. I hope you enjoyed with Frank Marini, the CEO of Railbookers. I definitely encourage you to check out his book Staying on Track Lessons from a Customer-Focused Travel Disruptor, which you can find on Amazon. His chapter on product development was probably the highlight of the book for me and, of course, I got the privilege of having it signed. So thanks again, frank, for the book, for the time you made for this conversation and certainly excited to see everything that you and the team at Railbookers have planned for 2025 and beyond. So definitely check out the book and also our social channels. You'll see some clips and highlights from these conversations on Instagram, youtube and LinkedIn, all at Travel Trends Podcast. And don't forget, we do send out a monthly newsletter so you can subscribe to be informed of all the latest episodes from the month and our travel plans for next month. You can register at TravelTrendsPodcastcom Now.
Speaker 2:Next week, we're going to be starting our guided touring series, which is sponsored by our friends at TourOptimacom. I'll be telling you more about them next week, since they have just launched with some major multi-day tour partners, but they also work with day tour brands as well, with their white label app to connect the guests with their guides, and it's some truly innovative technology and we'll talk a bit more about that as we get into the series. But we have four extraordinary industry leaders. We start with Jacqueline Lebel-Cote, who is the CEO of Colette, and then we're going to speak to the CMO of Globus, the managing director of Explore in London, and then my old friend Ben Hall, who is now in Sydney, australia, running AAT Kings. So make sure that you are subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice so you get notified as soon as those new episodes go live, which are typically every Wednesday.
Speaker 2:We also currently have our Forbes Travel Guide Special Hospitality Series, season 2, launching every Thursday. It's a special 10-part series, so make sure that you are checking out some of those episodes if you're interested in the world of luxury hospitality. And we will otherwise see you next week as we kick off our deep dive into guided touring. Have a great rest of the week Until next time. Safe travels.
