Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Uncover valuable insights, innovative strategies, and meaningful connections that will elevate your travel business or career to new heights.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Earth Day: Lessons in Sustainability with Shannon Stowell, CEO ATTA and Greg Takehara, CEO, Tourism Cares
This Earth Day, we’re proud to share present our first ATTA & Travel Trends Adventure Series discussion focused on important lessons in sustainability. In this powerful episode, Travel Trends host Dan is joined by co-host Shannon Stowell, CEO of ATTA and together they interview the CEO of Tourism Cares Greg Takehara.
Greg & Shannon unpack the current state of sustainable travel and share many actionable insights on how the industry, along with travelers, can move past surface-level greenwashing to drive meaningful, long-term impact.
Key Highlights from this discussion include:
- Environmental Responsibility: Moving beyond buzzwords, learn how real practices can protect delicate ecosystems.
- Adventure Travel's Role: Did you know that adventure travel retains 65–70% of spending in local communities compared to only 10–15% for large-scale tourism? These numbers showcase the moral and economic power of mindful travel decisions.
- Cultural Preservation: Why Travel is an important bridge to connect and honor diverse customs and traditions.
- Human Connection: How this style of travel realizes the ultimate goal—forging connections that last a lifetime.
Key Upcoming Events to Learn More
Deepen your commitment to responsible travel with these powerful events curated by Tourism Cares and ATTA:
- Tourism Cares’ Meaningful Travel Roadshow
- Miami, FL - May
- Pittsburgh, PA - October
- Galveston, TX - November
- ATTA Featured Events
- AdventureNEXT in Bonito, Brazil - April
- AdventureELEVATE in Denver, CO - May
- Adventure Travel World Summit in Puerto Natales, Chile - November
As Shannon reminds us on this Earth day: “Once you destroy a culture or environment, some things are gone forever.” A profound and important reminder for us all.
Join us for this thought-provoking conversation and a call to us all—to travel responsibly, drive local impact, and honor the environments and communities we visit.
Season 5 Launched Jan 15th. New Episodes Every Weds! Check out our first 4 Seasons.
https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/
We like to project ourselves in a way that says, oh you know, we look into sustainable options, but to what degree do we look into sustainable options? Are we willing to spend $100 more, or are we willing to spend $500 more? And I think that's where really the rubber hits the road, really the rubber hits the road. But what I will say is there's no question that our industry tends to be reactive as versus proactive. One thing that will always happen is that if consumer demand is there, the market will meet them, and so, as we know, if the consumers start asking for sustainable options, then you will have the industry meet that need.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and happy Earth Day. This is your host, dan Christian of Travel Trends, but today is a special edition where we have partnered with our friends Shannon and Gabby at the Adventure Travel and Trade Association to continue our adventure series. As many of you may recall, we actually kicked off season four of Travel Trends with Shannon Stoll as part of our adventure series and actually that conversation and that series has become one of our adventure series and actually that conversation and that series has become one of our most popular ever and over the last six months, shannon and I have become great friends. We had the opportunity to connect in person in Panama at the Adventure Travel World Summit, which was absolutely extraordinary, and many of you may have listened to that two-part series that we created of all the amazing voices that come together for that incredible event Going into 2025,.
Speaker 2:Shannon and I decided that we should host a podcast together to reach both the adventure travel community and travel trends as well, with the most important topics in the world of adventure travel, and there could be no more important topic affecting our world today than climate change and the reality that all of us, as travelers, need to be focused on traveling more sustainably and lessening our impact. So we thought it was the perfect opportunity to kick off our Adventure Travel Trade Association and Travel Trends podcast for 2025, our quarterly series by bringing you a conversation on Earth Day April 22nd 2025, with the CEO of Tourism Cares, greg Takahara. Now, greg's background is really impressive. He spent the entire career in the travel industry, but he was very much invested in the insurance space for many years and, for those of you that are familiar with how insurance works, obviously it's all about playing the odds and these actuaries have to run scenarios to figure what the risk of an event occurring is, based on its likelihood. So that tells me that Greg has done his analysis on the world and his commitment to sustainability is very real and genuine, as you'll hear. But this certainly gives us at least the moment to raise awareness and then be that much more conscientious in the year ahead of what we can all do to make travel more sustainable. Now you'll also hear, from Shannon's background as well, some really interesting stories on their journey towards becoming more sustainable and some of the challenging debates that occur around this space. So I'm really keen for you to join us for this important discussion.
Speaker 2:Now, don't forget we also do post clips and highlights on our social channels, both at Travel Trends Podcast and Adventure Travel and Trade Association as well. You can find out more about ATTA at adventuretravelbiz and, of course, you can check out more details about Travel Trends Podcast at traveltrendspPodcastcom. One last thing to note is that we're actually going to be together in May in Denver for ATTA Elevate. I hope many of you are able to join us there. I'll be recording podcasts live, which will lend itself to episode two of our ATTA Travel Trends 2025 adventure series. So make sure you reach out if you're going to be there. I'd love to be able to record with you, but today let's kick things off by bringing Shannon and Greg into this conversation. Welcome, shannon and Greg. So great to have you on this very first edition. Happy Earth Day to you both.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Dan. It's been such a pleasure dreaming this into action and it was really fun to have you in Panama. You know, I just really respect your professionalism. Your podcast is fantastic.
Speaker 3:The other reason I'm really excited about this is that there's so many subjects that we can hit within adventure travel. You know some of the trends where are the hot destinations? What are the motivations for travelers? Where's the industry going? But also one of the key things is because adventure travel really lies at the heart of conservation, community and commerce.
Speaker 3:Sustainability is just a really important subject, and so together we decided that we would start with some sustainability conversation and have that sort of be the platform, but certainly I look forward to going far beyond this subject to explore the nether reaches of adventure travel with you. So also really excited to bring in a guest that is really perfect for this first conversation and also a close personal friend. We've traveled together in some pretty amazing locations locations Our last one was traveling together with a purpose, and that was in Jordan to assure people that Jordan was still an amazing place to be visiting, even with the unfortunate level of conflict going on next door, you know. So Greg and I and a group of about 15 other people traveled together and it was one of the most meaningful experiences that I've had in my career traveling with other professionals. So Greg Takahara, CEO of Tourism Cares, is our first guest, and Greg just want to say how excited I am that you're guest number one.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks Shannon and thanks Dan. I'm completely honored to be the first guest. It's kind of like the inaugural show, and so to be part of this is really exciting for me. But, as you referenced, our deep personal relationship and the experiences that we've had traveling the world, and your perspectives and your generosity as a board member of Tourism Cares really kind of makes this a perfect opportunity for us to tag team and talk about sustainability, which is really at the core of both of our organization's missions.
Speaker 1:With regards to Tourism Cares, for those who aren't familiar with Tourism Cares, we've been around for 21 years.
Speaker 1:We unite the travel and tourism industry.
Speaker 1:We were fortunate to have been born from the industry, fortunate to have three founding organizations in the National Tour Association, the United States Tour Operators Association and the American Society of Travel Advisors be our founding members, all with a purpose of bringing uniting the industry together and creating positive impact for the people and places of travel.
Speaker 1:And when we started, we did a lot of work, as many people know, doing as we call them cleanup events.
Speaker 1:So a lot of it was based in volunteerism and bringing the industry together to come to places that were under-resourced, that really oftentimes were suffering after natural disasters and really rolling up our sleeves and helping to clean up that place and doing the work that in many instances you know for instance, our inaugural event in 2003 in Ellis Island 300 travel and tourism professionals came together and did the work in one day.
Speaker 1:That would have taken the National Park Service months, perhaps even a year, to get done, and I still remember tears being shed by a number of the representatives who are just so happy to see us come and really help them out. But we've evolved over those 21 years and we recognize that painting fences and picking up debris was rather temporary and we needed to put a much more lasting stamp rather temporary and we needed to put a much more lasting stamp. And so what we're working on is really to help the industry on its sustainability journey and really kind of meet them where they're at, no matter whether they're just starting or whether they're further along on their journey, but also to just create a much greater global impact, really working with local communities and really amplifying how tourism can be a true force for good.
Speaker 3:That's so well put, greg, and I've watched it evolve under your leadership the tourism cares, the strategy and the direction, and it's really it was exciting for me. That's why I was excited to join the board when you were so kind to offer that to me. That's why I was excited to join the board when you were so kind to offer that to me. And so one of the things I think because sustainable you know there's so much tossing about of terms my personal view is we should focus less on whether sustainable as a word is still relevant or not and focus on just getting the actual work done. So I'm going to say, you know, we acknowledge there's a lot of new descriptions regenerative, this, that and the other but let's from a blanket term perspective, how do you look at, how do you define sustainable tourism and why do you think it's critical for the future of the travel industry?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you touched already on a number of very salient points about the term sustainability and, to your point, there are many in our space who really don't even want to use that term, maybe because it's just difficult to digest.
Speaker 1:But I think that you know, whatever the term is, as you mentioned, it's the work that's being done that is really important. It's the work that's being done that is really important. We like to use the moniker of meaningful travel, not as a replacement, but just something that I think people can really truly identify with. Everybody, when they're traveling, looks for that sense of meaningfulness and has kind of their own definition around it and, much like sustainability, that can take into account social elements, environmental elements, but it really comes down to making a real connection with the people and places that we go. And so that element of meaningfulness takes into account all three of those elements of social, economic and environmental, but it also really goes into the cultural community aspects that you and I are very much in tune with and very much support in terms of community tourism, indigenous tourism. All of those separate monikers, I think, just kind of roll into meaningful travel as really something that everybody can identify with.
Speaker 3:So tell us about any recent projects or initiatives at Tourism Cares that you're particularly proud of in advancing sustainability.
Speaker 1:Well, we're. You know we are really when we talk about that evolution. You know, there's just a lot of lessons that you learn over time. And we developed our meaningful travel map. You mentioned our trip to Jordan. Our global meaningful travel summit was in Jordan in 2018. Part of the outcome of that summit was to develop a meaningful travel map of 12 different social enterprises along the Jordan Trail.
Speaker 1:Now, if you think back to 2018, I really give a lot of credit to our good friend Malia Asfor, the managing director of the North American office of the Jordan Tourism Board, for having the kind of vision that is so relevant today.
Speaker 1:She was already starting to see tourism in Petra.
Speaker 1:She recognized that a lot of people kind of look at Petra as a bucket list place and that once you get that off your bucket list, you're probably not going to come back to Jordan, and what she wanted to do was help to ensure that people get off the beaten path, that the power of tourism and the economic benefit of tourism reaches out to the local communities within Jordan and that people really start to move out beyond Jordan and have that touch point where they make that connection with the people and the culture that makes them want to come back.
Speaker 1:So we built out that meaningful travel map with 12 different social enterprises along the Jordan Trail and that really became the basis of the meaningful travel map that we've now built to over 400 impact partners around the globe, and so that's something that we're not only proud of but really we've kind of turned into, rather than being an outcome of one of our summits, but to be a focal point of how we work with destinations, and we're fortunate to be working with over 40 destinations now, building out maps with them, doing exactly what we've done with Jordan to try to create that focus on local community enterprises that haven't had that touch point with mass tourism, and it was really fun to work in tandem with you last year in Panama where you did your Meaningful Travel Summit, and then we followed up with the Adventure Travel World Summit and incorporated many of those businesses that you were working with into our pre-adventures, our day of adventures, and it was a really beautiful dovetailing of our two organizations and the efforts that we do.
Speaker 3:So one thing you know, one thing that gets criticized a lot in the world of sustainability is lack of measurement. It feels squishy, which I think leads to consumer confusion too, where they're not quite sure you know they say they're green. Are they green? Are they eco? Are they responsible? Are they sustainable? Are they community oriented? Have there been any measurable impacts from your efforts that you could describe to integrate sustainability into what you do?
Speaker 1:It's definitely a big focus for us to try to really put some strong metrics around the work that we're doing, and I think that when we look at the evolution of the meaningful travel map, we're starting to see the outcomes, because really we can talk all about the metrics of. We now have 400 impact partners and we're working with over 40 destinations. Just putting enterprises on the map is not good enough. We have to ensure their success and we have to talk about their success stories, and I think the best thing for me in terms of a good example was the trip that you and I went on to Jordan last year, because it fell almost six years from the time that we did that Meaningful Travel Summit in 2018.
Speaker 1:And we were able to go back and see a number of those original 12 social enterprises and what I saw was obviously unfortunate in terms of the timing of when we went, because there was hardly any tourism that was coming to the area last year because of the conflict, as you had referenced, but what I saw was incredible changes to their infrastructure.
Speaker 1:They were so much more tourism ready than they had been in 2018, when they were really like fledgling organizations A woman's cooperative that we set up as one of our first impact partners, had about 17, if I'm and the number may be incorrect, but they're about women employees and now they're employing over 200. So I think that kind of metric is exactly what we're looking for to see how these types of enterprises that are impact partners, that we've put on the map, how they've thrived and how they've been able to be able to get integrated into the itineraries of several tour operators. Those are the success stories and those are the metrics that we like to tell, and I think we're going to be telling that story to a much greater degree in the years to come.
Speaker 3:You know, greg, I just had an aha moment. We had a speaker at our Chilean Adventure Travel World Summit 10 years ago, tim Martin. He was a Canadian ambassador for his whole career and his daughter is Natasha Martin. So many of you know many of the listeners probably know Natasha from her work, her very important work in adventure tourism development around the world. But he gave a really interesting talk because he was involved in the whole process of blood diamonds, of identifying conflict source diamonds and figuring out how to get those out of the system. And he said for these thorny problems that we're trying to solve, we need the magic triangle of private businesses, government and NGOs.
Speaker 3:And it just struck me while you were talking, that's exactly what happened in Jordan, where you had the NGO, the nonprofit of Tourism Cares. You had the government, meaning the tourism department, saying we will not do any co-op marketing with you tour operator, unless you incorporate some of these meaningful travel businesses into the itineraries. And then you had the businesses themselves getting involved and say, yes, we'll include that women's cooperative in our tour. And so that is the magic triangle coming to life of NGO, government and business working together with an amazing outcome. And I got to see that too on that trip with you, and it really it was very touching. A funny side note Greg and myself, and pretty much everyone on that trip, had to go duffel bag shopping to then fill that with the products from the women's cooperative because the quality was so high and we were so excited to be supportive as well. So, um, yeah, it was really it, it made it. It's a.
Speaker 2:It's a classic rubber hitting the road yeah, it's a great story, a nice connection between the two of you, and I'm just gonna jump back in for a moment because obviously I'm thrilled that greg is here. G, obviously I've got actually a number of questions for you that I'm keen to come to in a moment, because your background is so impressive. I mean, you're a lawyer by training. You spent nearly 20 years at Aon and as a senior vice president doing, like, claims, adjustments and like, so you have a deep knowledge and background in this industry and you worked for a number of travel companies and obviously you've been leading tourism cares now for six years. So it's it's great to have you on this and obviously to hear the dynamic you have with Shannon.
Speaker 2:What I wanted to do, just for our listeners for a moment, because as we bring our audiences together with travel trends and ATTA, is actually establish some of Shannon's credibility in this conversation, because my background is not sustainability, but both of you have a great deal of expertise in this space and I saw that for myself when I was in Panama for the first time just how important it is to the community and how incorporated it is to everything you do at ATTA, shannon. So I'm actually going to turn the tables for a moment and put you on the hot seat and ask you a couple of questions, because I actually was preparing for our conversation and going back and educating myself on all the things that ATTA does with their membership community around sustainability, and so I know you have a number of different initiatives and this has been such an important driver for you, so why don't you share with our audience what sustainability looks like at ATTA?
Speaker 3:Sure. Thanks, dan. You know it's in progress. It's always in progress. It's been in progress since our earliest days. So I want to be clear that we still know we have a long way to go and things will always change going forward.
Speaker 3:So I don't view myself as necessarily an amazing sustainability expert, more of just a willing participant to try to do the best we can and to help our community as well. So it comes from our sustainability policy today to the work that we do in the field. We try to incorporate sustainability into all of our work, basically intertwined into everything we do, and it isn't always possible, but that's our goal. Probably the most visible part is the membership sustainability commitment that we launched last year, where we asked all of our members to have a demonstrable commitment to sustainability and we enable an implementation phase to do it faster, easier and affordable. And so we. So basically, we're working with a number of different organizations to to help us with that, because we're not necessarily the experts and we want to bring the best to our members. So when we do but for us, when we do an event in a destination, we have a full checklist and guidelines on how to make events more sustainable it could be everything from less carbon emission, local food sourcing. We did a vegetarian summit once to experiment with an entire summit with no meat Mixed feedback on that. But you know, this is also part of the process is just trying things, testing things, and then, of course, in our destination development work, when we train, guides, support new product development, et cetera. We also offer a full sustainability resource center to our members that gives guidelines, webinars, courses, checklists and it gives people, uh, some framework to work within.
Speaker 3:Um, but I'll share, you know, I'll share a funny story in our sustainability journey. We had been it was, I think it was 2015 and we were trying to figure out how to make our events carbon neutral and we had this firecracker of a guy who, sadly, uh, rest in peace, rafaio. He was a very dear friend of ours, he was a Costa Rican tour operator and, um, and he, he, you never knew quite what he was going to say and we made him our MC for the summit. He was amazing, people loved him, but sometimes we were like God, what's he going to say? Anyway, it was great, he did a great job, made people laugh. But anyway, it was great, he did a great job, made people laugh. And at the last night, at the closing, he said at the very end, and he said and I have an amazing announcement to make Next year, the Adventure Travel World Summit will be 100% carbon neutral, without consulting us, without our plan in place, and the crowd stands up and we get a standing ovation and our team looks at each other.
Speaker 3:We go oh boy, here we go. So our friend Rafa kicked us from behind and says I'm going to, I'm going to speed up your, your trajectory, and um, and it did, and we love him for it and we miss him. He was an amazing part of the community and you know, there's a lesson in there too Sometimes we need to push each other a little bit.
Speaker 2:No, it's a great story and it's a very personal and touching one. I think that actually highlights even your response there too, shannon. I mean being very open, honest about the journey you've been on, which is far more transparent than a lot of organizations typically are. And certainly there's been that concern in our space about greenwashing, because one of the topics I want to get into with both of you guys today is just how meaningful sustainability is in consumers making travel decisions and affecting their buying behavior. But before we dive into that topic, I just wanted to acknowledge that, because you certainly have a great deal of credibility in this space based on the organization you run and the work that you do. But clearly you are very humble about it and that's obviously to your credit because of the fact that you see what can be done and you realize that, like you're maybe still in the early stages of realizing all the benefits and pushing ahead in this direction. But to connect you guys together, I think one of the things that I would love to get into and hear both of your insights on for many people that have come to this conversation keen to figure out what they should do with their organization. So it's one thing, and I've seen this certainly in my experience working with companies like G Adventures that have Planetara, or the Travel Corporation that had Treadwright Many companies have created an arm of their business and then they've tried to figure out how best to integrate it and you're seeing more and more companies that are now realizing and I'll use the example with Treadwright and these Make Travel Matter.
Speaker 2:Experiences and Jordan I went to the Women's Weaving Project in Jordan and I similarly had a very profound experience. It was literally the highlight of our trip to Jordan. Petra was amazing, but know family and employment and all of a sudden there was an opportunity and they had meaning, they had purpose and they had a community, and it's so profound to see how it can improve people's lives, how truly tourism I know that's very core to the DNA of both of your organizations. So what I'd like to get into now is for those people listening to this, figuring out where they are on the journey and what are some of the steps they can do, so you can help demystify it a bit for them. And maybe, shannon, we'll start with you and go quickly over to Greg on this, because what are some of the things that you would start off with with advice to other travel businesses that want to adopt more sustainable practices and really don't know where to start.
Speaker 3:You know, that's a very practical question for us because that's why we launched this commitment last year along with partners. So some of the partners that we work with are Travel Life, Green Key, Blue Flag, Anamondial that's for animal welfare, and travel PACT is for the protection of children. So we've worked with all these organizations over the years to put them in front of our members. So, for example, Travel Life has a low cost aimed at very small businesses program for tour operators to get their operations more sustainable, and so what we like to do is just put those resources in front of the ATTA membership to really try to help push.
Speaker 3:We also, you know, and everybody that works in the industry knows, that there's an intention gap between what customers say they want to do and how responsible they want to be, and often what, how they behave, and sometimes it's bad behavior, Sometimes it's lack of knowledge, and, and so one of the one of the things we also are are working a lot with destinations and companies, and there's a company specifically called Behavior Smart that does some amazing work in this area of taking away some of the bad choices and changing the mindset to say the customer isn't always right you guys as tour operators and destinations and accommodations. You have the power to decide how travelers will behave in your region. So there's both a mindset issue and then there's also a tools issue. So we try to just put that all in front of our members as much as we can and then they share with each other. Which is one of the most powerful things is when it's peer-to-peer sharing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that combination of mindset and tools, because obviously one thing is to shift your mindset, to figure out that we're going to make a sustained commitment to being more sustainable and responsible, and then the question obviously then becomes how?
Speaker 2:So having those tools in place and I guess that's where, greg, to come back to you on this topic I mean, you run a great global organization that is committed to a number of the initiatives of Tourism Care. Clearly people partner with you. I know you guys take direct donations as well. So I would love to know, when an organization is starting on this journey and they're trying to decide, do we partner with an NGO, as the example you provide, like private companies and government in that triangle? But where is it appropriate or where is it, I guess, the most beneficial for a company to work with a partner like Tourism Cares? And then I'm sure you get asked this question all the time when other companies are coming to you to say we want to do more, we want to do better, what advice do you give them to really advance their journey on the sustainability front?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, dan, when you talk about coming to an NGO, I think that that's a really interesting question from the standpoint that you know. We all talk a lot about how collaboration is so necessary to getting the type of end results that we're looking for. So we really felt like we needed to walk the walk as well, and so we, along with five other founding NGOs, created the Future of Tourism Coalition and we built various toolkits together for the industry to be able to tap into our expertise and our skill set. But we also worked together to define 13 different guiding principles centered around proper destination stewardship, and we then sought signatories to support those 13 guiding principles, and we've been fortunate to collect over 800 signatories to those guiding principles. So a part of it is just to bring the people under the tent, have them recognize that there are multiple resources available to them, and we do a lot of pointing fingers not at ourselves to say tourism cares is the end all solution for you, but that there's solutions throughout our industry and other NGOs who can help with your more specific needs or solutions.
Speaker 1:We also use the United Nations, as so many people do the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals the 17 goals as guideposts for the work that we do. And 17 goals is a lot, no question. So it's hard to put your arms around 17 goals at once. So what we always encourage people to do is to follow their heart, look for their passion points.
Speaker 1:There's a great little short video called the Good Life Goals that animates the 17 different sustainable development goals, creates little characters and then they basically talk about what they're about and it's done in very quick fashion and it's done purposely that way so that you will immediately gravitate to what resonates with you and that really creates a starting point for you to say this is what means something to me and therefore that's what I should kind of focus on, and I think that really you can't go wrong with that, because I don't know. I Shannon can probably amplify. He's spoken to many, many different entrepreneurs, like you know, like I have, who, when we ask them why you know this, what you, what you accomplished, was so great, can you tell me how you developed your master plan? They all say it came about. It came about organically because I had a belief or I had a passion around the work that I wanted to do, and cards fell in place because I followed my heart, love that also greg.
Speaker 3:On a very practical level, Gustavo from my team and myself took the sustainability workshop course with Tourism Cares back early back in 2024. And it was really really good. It was comprehensive. It made us think differently about some of the things that we were doing, that our industry was doing, and there was a real sense of collaboration and I'm still in regular touch with some of the things that we were doing, that our industry was doing, and there was a real sense of collaboration and I'm still in regular touch with some of those folks that were in that cohort who I did not know before. So that really was a meaningful experience that you, your organization, offers to the trade and it's free. People can take this, they can tour operators anybody in the industry can go through the Tourism Cares program and you're going to learn a lot.
Speaker 1:It's a bit like an early masterclass with USCOA, nta and, to your point, I think it creates a little bit of a buddy system where you can hold each other accountable, where you know that you're just a phone call away from you know being able to bounce something off of someone else or be able to say this is the challenge that I'm dealing with. Have you dealt with this before? And others who have dealt with that same challenge will come forth and say this is how we handled it. We don't want you to stumble the way that we stumbled. So you know, maybe you want to do it this way.
Speaker 1:So I think that you know the benefits of a cohort type of exercise and, believe me, it's an exhaustive commitment. It's 14 weeks in which they're meeting. Every other week they go through the why of sustainability into the how and when they move into the how. We use the B Corp assessment as a tool, not for the purpose of convincing somebody that they should become a B Corp. If that ends up being the end result, that's great. But so they get comfortable with doing measurement, so that they get comfortable with looking at their operations and creating a baseline for where they're at, so that they can measure improvement going forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really fascinating. I'm learning a lot from this conversation, especially between the two of you, because this is the first chance I've had a chance to meet Greg Shannon and I obviously know each other fairly well now. But, greg, I wanted to keep going on this theme because you just have so much knowledge and experience on this front, and one of the things I'm really keen to ask you is this question about are we seeing changes in consumer behavior? And, uh, I've certainly seen encouraging signs, but you obviously have the expertise here, and Shannon are keen to ask you this exact question as well. So we've talked a lot about various initiatives.
Speaker 2:One of the things that really stood out to me that you just highlighted is connecting to people on a mission or a level that they'll appreciate, and for me, part of the opportunity to visit the women's co-op in Jordan is because I was raised by a single mom, and so I'm only highlighting that, because I feel more of a sense of connection to women who find themselves in that circumstances, because my mom didn't get to go to university. We lived together and so we made ends meet, but she didn't have the opportunities that she would have had or were trying to give our daughter, for example, and that's here in a Western society. She grew up in England and her brother was given the opportunity to go to university, but a woman. At that time. It was like they had one option and her brother got to go right. And so for me that's where I draw points of connectivity.
Speaker 2:So for me that's where I draw points of connectivity. But so how do you and I only share that, not to make the personal connection with our audience, but more so to highlight the fact that that moves me to action. So what are the things that you see that actually do move people to action? Because clearly wildlife is a big driver of human behavior? But what are the things that I guess tourism carers are doing to move the needle to all those questions we were discussing before about the projects you have underway, the impact that you're seeing, but what are you seeing in terms of consumer behavior and how important this is becoming, and how do you make that connection?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great question, because Shannon's already identified that there's a bit of a gap in terms of the way that people kind of like to represent themselves in terms of their thoughtfulness around their travel decisions. So I would say that I'm always a little bit suspect of survey results because I think we'd like to project ourselves in a way that says oh you know, we look into sustainable options, but to what degree? We look into sustainable options, but to what degree do we look into sustainable options? Are we willing to spend $100 more or are we willing to spend $500 more? And I think that's where really the rubber hits the road.
Speaker 1:But what I will say is there's no question that our industry unfortunately relatively unfortunately has always been and I'm not just singling out our industry, because I think this speaks to many industries but tends to be reactive versus proactive. And one thing that will always happen is that if consumer demand is there, the market will meet them. And so, as we know, if the consumers start asking for sustainable options, then you will have the industry meet that need. So we're very in tune. We try to stay very in touch with what the consumer trends are. Obviously, we know that the next generation of consumers the ones who are going to be spending their disposable dollars on travel and have put a huge premium on travel tend to have a more sustainable thinking. They've been kind of born with that type of thinking of, you know, being socially and environmentally responsible, looking at their carbon footprint, and that's in part because it's really their future and they're thinking about their future and they're thinking about how their travel impacts their future.
Speaker 1:So I think that there is a lot to be said about what we see as a growing demand for sustainable options on the consumer side. I don't think we're where we need to be yet. We and meaning Tourism Cares is B2B focused, and one of the things that to Shannon's point about that kick that his friend gave them is that sometimes we really encourage our you know, our members, tour operators, travel advisors, the whole travel industry to not wait for consumer demand to happen, but to push this type of product out there and say this is what you need and this is what you want and this is what is the responsible thing to do for our industry, and that you know that sometimes is that kick that, you know, isn't just being responsive to consumer demand, but just saying this is the right thing to do and we're a responsible company and you should book us because we are.
Speaker 2:I certainly imagine that Shannon gets a few kicks because, seeing how passionate your members are at ATTA about sustainability and I'm sure you kind of get it from both sides you get the members that are asking you what more can you do? And then you have these organizations that are coming in to participate with ATTA with the expectation that sustainability is at the core of your business and they want to be better associated with either an organization like ATTA or Tourism Cares, and so they've recognized they're getting the signals from consumers that they need to be more conscientious themselves about this and they're trying to figure out their path and their journey. But yeah, shannon, I'd love if you wouldn't mind adding to that, just in terms of what you've seen, as we're here in 2025, when it comes to consumer behavior Again, if there's any encouraging signs of it actually influencing where they're choosing to travel to or companies they're choosing to book with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I had another thought I wanted to throw in there and just say and I had another thought I wanted to throw in there and just say sustainability is such a broad term and it is confusing and it's also incredibly complicated. I'll give you an example, because at one point we had two members kicking us not us an issue, an issue from the opposite direction, and they were totally at odds on what sustainability meant. And that was we had a European tour operator who said if the ATTA won't release a 100% anti-hunting statement, then we're going to cease being members of ATTA. And at the same time, I think the controversy that got this on the table was the Namibian tribe was going to, with permission from government, was going to sell a hunting permit for an endangered rhino. Now, on surface that sounds insane, right, like who's for that. But when you get below the surface, the locals said look, we spent all of our years protecting this rhino from poachers. Biologists have assured us its lifespan is almost over, that it cannot mate again and that $100,000 means medical clinics for us. That gives us a reason to protect those rhinos throughout their life cycle. So don't you tell us we can't manage the resource in the way that we want to, and so we had these.
Speaker 3:You know the subject was broadly sustainability. It was very controversial and people came down on both sides of it. I only bring that up just to say that it is really a tough. It requires a lot of thought and a lot of context to get sustainability right. And even then sometimes we don't get it right, you know we get it wrong. Um so so, first of all, anybody pursuing this path, you know, kudos to you because it is a challenge.
Speaker 3:But then, at the end of the day, on the really simple level, like what, what can the industry do? Cause I, I don't think we can rely on travelers because of that intention gap. And again, it may be that that there's a lack of knowledge in many of those situations that it's not, you know, it's not that there's a lack of knowledge in many of those situations that it's not malicious or intentional to have that gap of. I want to do better, but I'm not doing better. I do think the industry, this is our opportunity and our obligation to structure so that travelers do decide to be better, maybe on that trip or when they go back home. I think it was Cousteau who said Jacques Cousteau, you can't save what you don't love and you can't love what you don't know. So travel companies have this opportunity to put travelers into situations and light their imagination up.
Speaker 3:That might be the Women's Cooper cooperative in Jordan, where people understand that, and in that particular one, greg, I think I have this right that it was almost all orphaned women who really had a pretty bleak future without something like this. So how incredible and as travelers, our tour guide did an amazing job of explaining what it meant, how powerful this was. We didn't simply whiz by it and wave. You know, look at the nice people. You know, we stopped in, we had a meal, we talked with them, we learned, we bought their products, they taught us how to do a certain kind of painting. So now I think about that place. It might be so.
Speaker 3:I know of one of our guide members took a tier, a celebrity, on a rhino and a rhino expedition in Nepal, and the outcome of that was the celebrity wrote a $1 million check for the local villages to help them with their sanitation systems to reduce pollution into the environment that the rhinos were going to be in. So it was, you know, two birds with one stone. It helped the local people and it also helped protect the environment. So I think travel's uniquely positioned to turn people into advocates, to turn them into loyalists, and that could go back home.
Speaker 3:I was on a trip once with a tour operator in Jordan who, to be honest, one of the valleys that we went in, the Wadis, had quite a bit of litter, and while we were hiking down, one of the guys just brought out a bag and started filling it while we were talking. By the end everybody had asked do you have more of those bags, you know? And now when I went back home to my local park, I'm like I don't know, I carry a bag when I do my walk here. Of course I should do that. So it changed. It can change your behavior, it can change traveler behavior, but it has to be designed and intentional.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if I could just add one more thing, it's just that I think when we think about, you know, csr or philanthropy, a lot of it had to do with how it made us feel, you know, as givers, as volunteers.
Speaker 1:You know, the focus was on you know, we're giving back. The focus was on we're giving back. Yes, there was a benefit to the local community, but the emphasis wasn a real impact. It is companies that are truly looking to integrate these types of local enterprises into their itineraries, give these people, their travelers, their clients, these enlightening moments that are transformative and really then create incredible impact for these local communities. And so I agree completely that the days of you know kind of silent philanthropy being honorable, you know kind of silent philanthropy being honorable, where you give money and you say, oh, but I don't want the exposure or the adulation of you know being this donor, that those days are gone, like you should be investing in making an impact and then talking about it, because that is what's going to attract clients, that's going to attract the consumer public, that's going to allow them to say this is a thoughtful and meaningful company that I want to be associated with and that I want to give my dollars with and I want to travel with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all very good points there, greg, this is conversation is heating up and I think one of the things that Shannon called out there and I actually I can only imagine the difficult situations you have to find yourself in from time to time because there are strong views on these topics and I'm sure there'll be feedback on this that people have very clear views in this regard and sometimes opposing views. As you just highlighted and I think that is one of the challenges for whether it's companies or individuals navigating this space is there's always this concern of virtual signaling that like, if you're entering this space, all of a sudden it's going to, someone's going to call you out or criticize you, even though your attentions may be pure um, but someone else may think that they're they're not well intentioned or they are. You know you're taking advantage of a situation and so it's. It's a very difficult one to navigate it, but the interesting thing to me I was just going to mention a signal is that in season three, we did a episode on sustainability, uh, which Shannon Guillen was on, of course, who many of you guys know, the chief sustainability officer for um, the travel corporation, and runs Treadright. Um. We had Christian, who runs Goodwings, based in Amsterdam, which is all about limiting carbon impact but putting the pressure on companies, not on individuals, and he was very strong in his views on that conversation and it was really and then we had Zach DeM like just don't have your towels washed, or some of the very basic elements that really don't have a meaningful impact. Anyway, the reason I referenced that conversation is because it was one of our most popular episodes and it was one of the reasons that I actually and so that to me was a sign that people are interested in this topic and they're interested in getting more information and educating themselves about it. So I think everything we've covered so far is going to be incredibly valuable.
Speaker 2:But one of the things I wanted to dive into with you both, since we've talked about companies, we've talked about organizations is travelers themselves, because I think that we see things like bookingcom implementing like a green filter so people can actually choose their hotels. And some people will say, well, that's you know, does it make a difference or not? Well, if we're starting to put these tools in the consumer's hands, where they can make decisions, how do travelers navigate the right signals to know that they're not being greenwashed or manipulated into thinking something is more sustainable than it actually is. Again, that's such a difficult criteria but, greg, you specifically mentioned the UNWTO and, although there's a lot of complexity to understanding, I have one of those pins with the 16 colors on them and I can't tell you what they all represent, but this is where there is a framework that travelers can look to to understand different organizations.
Speaker 2:So, greg, I'd like to go back to you on this topic and I would love for you to be able to share what are some of the signals that consumers, that travelers, should look for in companies that either work with Tourism Cares or part of ATTA, or that are part of the UNWTO and follow their initiatives. What are the signals that you would recommend travelers listening to this should look for?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that if you're going to dive into making a really informed decision about your travel and what companies you want to work for I mean, we know how adept the consumer is in terms of, you know, working within the internet and looking at websites, and I still remark how many times, you know, I look at the websites of various different travel companies and they don't make pronouncements about what they're doing, when I know in fact, they're doing something or they've made a commitment. So I think a lot of times it's a matter of kind of putting your ethos out there and talking about your principles. Granted, to your point, there's always going to be maybe a skepticism, or is there greenwashing here? Is this an overstatement or whatever but I think that if you don't have anything there, the natural conclusion there is that you're not committed or you're not doing anything.
Speaker 1:So I think that, yes, there's always going to be that hesitation about how far should I go in terms of talking about what we're doing, but I think a solid commitment and putting that on your website means a lot to somebody who is being intentional about their decision and really looking into well, which companies should I work with and what do they stand for I think it goes pretty far when you have certain companies, much like the Travel Corporation and their ethos, and you know the way that they've designed product very intentionally to ensure that they're including community-based organizations and enterprises, that they're very intentional about making sure that the money stays in those local communities, that they've created a whole set of standards by which they go about choosing who they work with.
Speaker 1:They're looking very strongly at their supply chain and it's evident, so I think, that a lot of it is just when you do have that informed traveler who is going the extra mile to do the research. When they find the information that they're looking for and they find the companies that are truly committed to doing the good work, they're going to be happy with their decision.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I get asked by more consumer-focused publications how can consumers tell if it's greenwashing or not? And I always encourage travelers to ask two lines of questions. One is don't say are you responsible, are you green, are you a sustainable travel company? Ask a question like tell me about your environmental standards and sort of how you approach environmental issues in your destination. An operator who is doing those things, who is very engaged in it, is going to be able to easily answer. The operator who's not doing that greenwashing is not going to be able to answer that very easily. They'll stumble all around. And you can do the same thing on the social side and say tell me about how your company works with communities. You don't have to be an expert to hear that answer and go hmm, okay, and that sounds a little weird, or off or not very engaged, or there was a lot of stumbling around there, or oh, yeah, let me tell you about it.
Speaker 3:Actually, at our lodge, everyone who works at the lodge is from the local tribe. Actually, I just went on a rafting trip in Fiji. All the guides come from a specific village in Fiji. It is Fijian owned and over the last 25 years, $1 million a small percentage of every rafter's fee goes back to that village, so any kid coming from that village can go to college.
Speaker 3:Okay, so if you ask your operator, tell me about how you work with the community and that's the answer you get back. You're like, wow, I mean A, I'm going to go on this amazing experience. B, I know it's going somewhere, great, oh, I think the consumer can ask a couple simple questions and if they're spending a lot of money on a trip like that, then it matters. And like Greg said and this is the stat we bring to governments all the time, we've done the studies 65 to 70% of the spend of an adventure traveler who's going with a company stays in the destination. With mass travel that number is closer to 10 to 15%. That stays Almost all economic leakage in that scenario. So it's also a great way to say is your company locally owned? Because if it is, a lot of that spend is going to stay in that destination.
Speaker 2:That's absolutely one of the priorities for me as a traveler and it's something I felt very strongly about. Certainly, some of my time at Lonely Planet was how do you get money in the hands of local people? And there was a big debate at the time about Myanmar Burma as it was formerly called whether or not they should be publishing a guidebook, and they strongly advocated that they would continue to, despite the military junta that unfortunately operate a lot of the hotels, and so there's this question about how much is actually getting to locals and how much is supporting the oppressors, but nevertheless, that's a conversation that needs to be had, just like the conversation we're having today and that getting money in the hands of locals. So I've certainly seen that, shannon. It was very profound for me, as I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast, being at an ATTA event and seeing firsthand, obviously, a number of members of Greg's team from Tourism Cares that were there and just how woven into the community this whole idea of sustainability are, because these are a lot of small businesses that come from around the world that are very conscientious about sustainability, protecting the environment, cultural preservation all the things that are actually paramount for an amazing guest experience in that destination. So they're already, and this is why I love this industry so much and see us I say collectively, but really it's the two of you as being ahead of the curve than other sectors of travel that have more catching up to do, like the cruise sector, for example I'm just going to call them out. Right now it's one of the areas I haven't cruised for that exact reason, and I know more work's being done to create alternative fuel sources and address some of the issues with dumping waste in the oceans.
Speaker 2:But these are the big questions of our times. With respect to the fact that we all acknowledge that climate change is real, that's not a debate that we need to have amongst this group, for sure, and our world is changing in many ways that we're concerned about. And so one of the things I'd love to kind of finish off on and obviously, shannon, this is our show, so when we close off, we're each going to share a few updates and then talk about the next episode, what we want to get into. But given all the things we've discussed today, I want to give you each the floor with one kind of bigger final question, if you will, which is where you think we're headed in regards to sustainable tourism, sort of in the next five years. So we're having this conversation in 2025.
Speaker 2:We're all looking towards what the world could look like at 2030. And currently we live in quite uncertain geopolitical times. So I think we just have to acknowledge that factor as well. But when I, greg, when you think about your work, what I'm guess, what I'm keen to understand and give you the floor to uh to finish off on this is like what keeps you motivated to uh, to continue, continue in this space. Um, how are you seeing technology as a uh, as a driver or as a, as a benefit to pushing in this direction? And really, I guess, what do you envision this world of sustainable tourism looking like, you know, just five years from now?
Speaker 1:You mentioned early on, dan, and I appreciate the fact that you recognized my path and it included time spent in the insurance sector within the travel and tourism industry. Within the travel and tourism industry, I frame a lot of my thinking around. You know my insurance background and what I learned through insurance. I see in many ways, the work that we do at Tourism Cares to be simply risk management and we're talking about protecting the assets Without preserving the people and places of travel. We really don't have a product to sell, and the very interesting thing about our industry unlike other industry where you might have a tangible product, something you can actually just hold is that nobody really owns it. And if you really think about who owns it, it's the people, it's the local people, and so you know. So when you take all of that dynamic into play and you think about risk management principles and you think about insurance, you talk about insurable risk and to me it's just fascinating to watch.
Speaker 1:Obviously, the effects of climate change make hurricane season one in which you know there's a cat four hurricane every other week and you know and cat five hurricanes that are starting in the first week of hurricane season. I mean these are, these are dynamics that are really hard to you know, get your arms around when you think about it. But when I think about it in the insurance context, you know it's very well known now, as we as we've seen with the LA fires and with the number of hurricanes that have hit Florida the areas now that insurance companies are not going to insure. And there was a time when I was in the insurance industry when I thought everything is insurable. Now, granted, there would be a cost, a premium, to insuring everything. But literally, you know, one would say, well, at the right price, everything's insurable.
Speaker 1:And I think we are now moving into a space where there are a number of risks that are not insurable anymore or won't be insurable. And what does that mean? It means that we need to self-insure. And what does that mean even further? That we, as an industry, need to create the protection around our assets and we need to be able to invest to ensure that our assets remain there for future generations and so bringing the industry together.
Speaker 1:You know it's unfortunate that. You know people only learn best when they either hit rock bottom or something hits them square in the face. Either hit rock bottom or something hits them square in the face, and I think we're being hit square in the face with a lot of different things, including catastrophes, and including a number of things that dynamics that have made travel very difficult, all sorts of disruption, and you know, we're seeing now. How do we manage through those, how do we operate trips with all of these dynamics going on? And these are now all self-managed types of scenarios.
Speaker 1:It's not something that you can just say well, I transfer this over to an insurance policy and let that insurance policy protect me, but things that we are, we naturally have to be invested in if we're going to ensure that we have product going forward. So we need to protect our assets and we need to do that collectively, as an industry together. Like I said, to me, it just goes hand in hand with my insurance background because it's just an element of self-insuring and I'm glad that I get to be kind of at the center of working with the industry to do exactly that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome, Shannon. What about yourself? Same question, man what do you think about the next three or five years and what keeps you motivated and what else are you seeing changing in the sustainability space?
Speaker 3:What keeps me motivated is our members. Honestly, when I see the things that they do, the programs that they're doing whether it's, you know, rhino conservation or integrating locals into the tourism supply chain in a meaningful way so that it's beneficial, that's motivating to me, my team is motivating to me and my team is also motivated by the industry. We many times have members come to us. We're so inspired by ATTA, like you know where we get that right From you. It really is a virtuous circle, and you know I get that right from you. It really is a virtuous circle. And you know I've worked in two other industries before travel, and travel is definitely the most, the most um integrated from a relationship standpoint. We really all do depend on each other. What do I think about sustainability in the next three to five years? I think there's some good technological advances. We've got a program for travel companies called Tomorrow's Air and it's a climate effort. It's entirely based on tech and we decided that we were going to move away from carbon offsets because so many organizations do that. So we're focused only on cutting edge technologies that are capturing and storing carbon permanently. And yes, it's more expensive, yes, it's more niche, but it'll be a part of the future, so I'm excited about that. There's conundrums. You know AI is going to help solve some sustainability problems. It also, an ai search consumes 20 to 30 times the amount of energy that a google search does. So there's that, you're right, it's. It's kind of like the conservation complexity. Where you can, you can see how it isn't simple. It's going to be very complicated. But I do think that that more and more companies in the industry are interested in their sustainability journey. We did a survey during COVID where an interesting pattern came back to us, which was it was the younger staff in organizations that were agitating their own companies for more sustainability effort. And so I think the fact that young people are coming into the space and I do not include myself in that category and they're pushing the limits. Sometimes I will joke with some and say they may not even fully understand, but at least their motivations are right, let's push for this. And they may not be absorbing all of the complexities of a story yet, but it's good to know that there is this energy coming to us and then, at the end of the day, I'm sure Greg would feel the same way, but anyone who's not protecting the locals and the environment in the places that they take their tours is using it, and that is a limited future and I really feel like that has to stop because they will lose those assets and those will go away forever. Once you destroy a culture, destroy a certain environment, the environment might make its way back 100 years down the road.
Speaker 3:There's a road near our house here, and I've lived off and on in this spot in Colorado for well. We moved here in 1981. And there's a place where some guy rode a four-wheel drive up the side of a mountain where he shouldn't have. I remember those two tracks from when I was a kid. No one has ridden on it since. I can still see those two tracks. You know so many, so many years later, 40 years later, and so that may eventually recover. But when a culture goes away, a language dies gone. So I think there needs to be an urgency in the industry, in the travel industry, to say we need to do everything we can to protect what's there and if we aren't doing that, we're not doing it right.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm definitely hearing the urgency in your voice, and I'm sure all our listeners are as well, and I think that's why we definitely needed to have this conversation, first and foremost, because there couldn't be a more important topic that we need to dive into, and certainly we will likely come back to this conversation again in short order, if not always, touch on it on each of our episodes as we figure out the right format and get feedback from all of our listeners as to what they would like to hear from us on these adventure series over the course of the year.
Speaker 2:But just in closing, I want to give Greg the floor first, and then Shannon, and I'll quickly say a word to wrap up myself. But I really I want to give Greg the opportunity to make sure everyone knows how they can find out more information about Tourism Cares so they can partner with you, also connect with you directly, given your inspiring background and the fact that you are clearly very motivated to remain in this space. So I'm sure there's a lot that people can continue to learn from you and stay connected to you and the things that you're going to be sharing. So, greg, tell us all those ways that our listeners can stay in touch.
Speaker 1:Well, of course, come to our website, sign up for our newsletter. More importantly, join us. We're going to be doing a North American Roadshow this year. Our traditional Meaningful Travel Summit is done in one destination as a host. This year we have three separate destinations, so instead of having one three-day event, we're having essentially three more or less one-day events in Miami in May, in Pittsburgh in October and in Galveston in November. So please join us.
Speaker 1:This is a great opportunity and I think, dan, you hit on it on your intro when you talked about the experience that you had in Panama, the experience you've had in Jordan.
Speaker 1:It only becomes real when people get a chance to see it and touch it, and so we really try to ensure that our meaningful travel summits have that element of bringing people together, educating them but, most importantly, getting them out into the community to have an interaction with the local community, see what local community change makers are doing on the sustainability front, how they're meeting their challenges, how they're accomplishing what they're doing to bring their destination to the next level.
Speaker 1:And you know that's a great experience and really fortunate that. You know we've had the opportunity to collaborate with organizations like ATTA, so we continue to support the industry and all of the events that all of us have, because there's something for everyone. So, whether you come to our roadshow, whether you join ATTA at one of their events, there's going to be that element of being able to have a touch point with a local community, to learn best practices that you may not have been aware of, that hopefully activate you, to make a commitment to go back home, to go back to your workplace, your home, your community, and take those lessons and do something good.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Thank you, greg. I can't thank you enough for joining this conversation. I think this for sure is not only where we need to start, but I think even our listeners, hearing all of those ways, they can get active, they can get engaged, they can get involved in the 10-year events. I sincerely hope that all of you listening to that take up that opportunity. I'm sure many people listening to this from the ATTA community are already planning to, but I certainly wanted to acknowledge that from all of our travel trends listeners, usa is our largest market for our listeners, so I strongly encourage you to get involved in tourism cares. So, looking forward to this and, greg, you are a real professional and a real strong leader in this space. So, yes, thank you for this, and, shannon, clearly the same applies to you, but tell everyone, if you wouldn't mind, all of our listeners across both of our organizations, how they can connect with you and find out more information about ATTA and any kind of closing remarks you might have for our first episode here with Greg.
Speaker 3:First of all, go to our website, adventuretravelbiz B-I-Z, and you'll find everything there that you need to get engaged with us. We'd love to have you join as a member it's very affordable, we have different levels for different size companies and then show up at one of our events. You know, in the world of increasing tech, I'm convinced that those in-person events, face-to-face, are ever more important, because the travel industry is based on trust, and so that is how you build those relationships. We have three events that I'll highlight. One is in Bonito, brazil, in April. We have Denver, colorado, in May, and what's different about this one?
Speaker 3:For us, it's Adventure Elevate and it is a trade gathering, but it's butted up against the Outside Festival, which is a consumer festival, and there will be 20,000 people walking through there this year to come listen to the music, eat the food, drink the drinks, go to the travel section and go meet with travel providers. We have about 20 of our members who are exhibiting there, so it's an experiment with a B2B and B2C component. And then, of course, our annual, our big annual event is the Adventure Travel World Summit, which is going to be in Puerto Natales, chile. So Patagonia people everybody's bucket list Come to Patagonia. And of course, we'll hit AI, marketing, risk management, succession, all those sorts of important business subjects, and then, of course, advancing the sustainability journey. So find us online and reach out. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm happy to talk with anybody who wants more information, and what a pleasure to share this stage with Greg, who's just an amazing, amazing colleague, and I love that we are able to work together in many different aspects in the industry. It's really great to work with you, greg.
Speaker 1:Well, I feel the same. Shannon, Thank you for having me. It's awesome. I feel like we're at the end. Shannon, Thank you for having me. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:I feel like we're at the end of a conference, when everyone's just good, it's a group hug time. That's what I was amazed I've never been to a conference before when I first arrived and the two conference organizers are on the dance floor and I likened going to this event as like going to a wedding, because there was Shannon and Gabby. I've never seen that People are hiding on the first night because they're so terrified of the first day and all things could go wrong. And there you guys were jamming out to this great band and then on the last day that band comes out again and we're all, everyone's up and dancing and there's this great feeling of community and it's just a wonderful spirit and sentiment. Anyway, I'm so looking forward to uh being back, both for the adventure world summit in chile. So a big thanks to shannon for that invitation, shannon, gabby and the whole team. And then I'm going to be in denver as well, and the reason I'm mentioning that now for all the atta listeners is that I want to make sure I give you a voice on travel trends. I tried to capture as many uh conversations as I could and I'll committed to doing the same thing at both of those events. So they're going to set me up with a space. Feel free to reach out in advance. I'll try and schedule time with as many people that are keen to be able to share their story, share their journey, promote their business, and I'll weave it into a few really special episodes. So that's my commitment to Shannon and the team for being at both of those events and, obviously, all of our Travel Trends listeners.
Speaker 2:I encourage you to learn more about ATTA and get involved in the members. I think there's a great overlap, certainly with our listeners of my background that likely already are. But for those of you who haven't yet, get involved in ATTA and learn more about Tourism Cares. I think everyone got that. From today's conversation, greg and I certainly, I not only learned a lot, but I have some clear thoughts in my mind of things that I want to do differently for this year and going into next year, and how I'm even approaching this whole topic. So thank you for enlightening me and thanks to you both for making this first episode so special, and I'll leave us, I guess, with let us know your thoughts, post comments, give us feedback, let us know where you'd like the conversation to go If you want Greg to come back every time and you want this to be the adventurous sustainability episode series for 2025, let us know that, because I think I could imagine just keep doing this, but, um, likely we need to expand the conversation, so let us know the topics you want to hear about, um, and give us some feedback on this episode as well.
Speaker 2:But thank you again, greg, for being here, thank you for Shannon for co-hosting this, and I look forward to everyone joining us on the next episode of the Adventure Series ATTA and Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us on our first episode of our Adventure Travel Trade Association and Travel Trends partnership with our Adventure Series for 2025. I hope you enjoyed the discussion today with Shannon, my co-host, and, of course, greg Takahara, the CEO of Tourism Cares. Happy Earth Day again, everyone. I hope you found this episode inspiring and insightful and we'll look forward to continuing the conversations live in Denver at the end of May, if you're able to join us. Check out more details at VentureTravelbiz and remember we post clips and highlights of all of these conversations on our social channels, so be sure to check those out at TravelTrendsPodcastcom or Adventure Travel and Trade Association on Instagram, on YouTube and LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:Now for our next conversation. If you want to reach out, if you're going to be in Denver, let me know, because I'd love to be able to record with you live, and we're also keen to hear your continued suggestions for additional topics and guests. You'd like us to feature on this adventure series with Shannon and I, so feel free to reach out to us directly by email or at Dan at Travel Trends Podcast or Shannon at AdventureTravelbiz, or just post a comment on the social channels or a review and give us your feedback and suggestions for future episodes, and we look forward to hearing from you and joining us next time. Until then, safe travels.
