Travel Trends with Dan Christian
#1 B2B Travel Podcast. If you are looking to stay ahead in the travel industry, this new podcast hits all the highlights! The Travel Trends Podcast is where industry leaders converge to share & shape the future. Whether you're an emerging entrepreneur, a seasoned industry executive, or a dedicated travel professional, you’ll be able to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape.
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Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Leading the Future of Educational Travel & More with EF World Journeys
Purposeful travel is having a moment—and we’re getting to the heart of what’s driving it. From a windswept opening in Patagonia to an inside look at EF’s new active brand, this "Captains of Industry," conversation with Heidi Durflinger, CEO of EF World Journeys USA, explores how learning, community, and movement are reshaping multi-day travel for every generation.
We unpack EF’s expansive global footprint - spanning educational travel, cultural exchange, language schools, and higher-ed pathways - and how EF World Journeys bridges three distinct audiences: Gen Z through EF Ultimate Break, all-ages travelers with EF Go Ahead Tours, and active explorers via EF Adventures.
Expect data-backed insights. We explore the rise of AI in trip discovery, the solo-travel boom, and why responsible tourism has shifted from nice-to-have to must-have - 89% of travelers now prioritize sustainability, and over half are willing to pay more for it.
If you care about where travel is heading - community-driven, responsibly designed, and joyfully active - you’ll come away with practical ideas and a renewed sense of why we go. For more information on EF World Journeys, please visit efworldjourneys.com.
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We're a part of people's stories. We're a part of their life moments. We're helping people celebrate milestones or get through a difficult time, and uh and travel is so enriching and meaningful and impactful. So for me, it's it's all mission.
SPEAKER_02:Hello everyone, and welcome back to Travel Trends. This is your host, Dan Christian, and we're continuing our Captains of Industry season six series today by speaking to Heidi Durfingler, who is the CEO of EF World Journeys USA. Last week we spoke to Tao Tao, the co-founder of Get Your Guide, and we wanted to keep up the Captains of Industry theme before we jump into our next deep dive, which will be into emerging tour operators brought to us by our partners over at Tourseta. Now, Heidi is actually here in Chile, Patagonia, with me at the ATTA conference, but I recorded this interview with her after we had a chance to meet at the conference in Denver at the Elevate ATTA conference, and both of which we produced event spotlights. And I'm in the process of recording one right now at the event. And I have just finished one of the most extraordinary trips I've ever had the privilege to take. I cycled in the most beautiful region of Patagonia with this incredible company called Ciclo Austral. So it's Ciclo Austral Chile. You can find them on Instagram, you can find them with that name on their website, with the dot com. And I had the privilege to meet this extraordinary group of people and this amazing couple, Fernando and Claudia, who took us on this epic five-day tour. And I just wanted to highlight this because this is what connects us as travelers and as a global community that is really passionate about this industry. So I'm thrilled to be here. I'm looking forward to moderating a session tomorrow. And we are going to be releasing a special ATTA spotlight episode from our time here in Chile. So I'll be interviewing a number of amazing guests over the next few days and releasing that episode in the next couple of weeks. So definitely be on the lookout for that. And of course, we have our AI summit coming up in a couple of weeks. So make sure that you are registered to join us for two extraordinary days on October 28th and 29th. And don't forget, we do post clips and highlights from all of our podcast episodes on our social channels at Travel Trends Podcast on LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. Now, I'm so excited to bring this Captain of Industry conversation to you since the keynote that Heidi gave at Denver Elevate was absolutely extraordinary. And that's why she's been brought back here to be at Chile as well. And so I was thrilled to showcase her skills, ability, and also bring EF to the forefront since so few people actually know what a massive travel company EF is. And of course, they've launched their new EF adventure brand. So there's many reasons I wanted to bring Heidi on, and that was a key one. And I'm thrilled to introduce you to her now. Welcome, Heidi. Thanks so much for joining us on Travel Trends.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Excited to talk travel with you.
SPEAKER_02:For sure. And you are a true captain of industry. I saw you give an amazing keynote presentation in Denver at the Adventure Travel and Trade Association conference, which many of our listeners belong to, so certainly some of them would have seen you live as well. And I've had a good catch-up with your team, uh, Brian, of course, and we uh we're very keen to have you on our podcast for a number of reasons. Obviously, EF is a massive travel company that has a fascinating background that I'm really keen for you to be able to share with all of our listeners. And you have been there for a number of years that you've seen the company grow and evolve, and you are now continuing to be in the media and a strong presence for EF as the business continues to grow and expands into new categories. So I think it would probably be best if you give everyone a little bit of an understanding of EF, because I'm still amazed the number of people I mentioned EF and they they don't know education first, they don't know much about the company. I'm like, you're you're missing out on one of the biggest travel stories in uh in the industry. So give us a little bit of background, EF, and then we'll talk about your background as well.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the best kept secret, right? So uh so EF stands for education first. So we are an international cultural exchange, language learning, travel business. So everything rotates around the idea of opening the world through education. So we have offices and staff members around the globe. So there's over 50,000 team members uh in about 500 offices and schools in 50 countries. And we do everything from there's four main pillars to the business. So this includes educational travel, which I work with. Uh we have student exchange programs and au pair programs, we have language schools globally, and then we have uh education programs. So, you know, international MBAs, international undergraduate students, those types of programs. So I work specifically with EF World Journeys, which is the family of brands that caters to adult travelers of all ages. So from 18 to 80, uh, depending on what kind of adventure you're wanting to have. I work with three different travel brands that are part of the EF World Journeys family. So that includes EF Ultimate Break, which is for 18 to 35 year olds. So young adults that are looking out to have an adventure and connect with other young people. Um we have then EF Adventures, which is our product for the active traveler. So it's less about an age and more about a mindset or a passion of people that are wanting to combine cultural immersion and seeing the most, you know, iconic sites in the world, getting off the beaten path, but that combined with doing something active. So hiking, biking, or kayaking or yoga at sunrise. So that's EF Adventures. And then the third travel brand that I work with is EF Go Ahead Tours. So EF Go Ahead Tours is for adults of all ages, uh, typically travelers that are 35 plus or families with their high school age students, uh, couples or solo travelers. And it's cultural immersion, uh, lifelong learning is sort of our mission with EF Go Ahead Tours to help people really learn about the destinations they're traveling to. So as you said, EF, you know, has a big global presence. We're both global and local in the destinations that we're traveling. Uh and you know, I'm based here actually in our uh Cambridge, Massachusetts office.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's amazing. You have offices around the world. You've been around for 60 years. Obviously, a lot of people got a good information about yourself and your in that introduction, the fact you've been with a company more than 20 years. And I think this is one of those Yeah, 21 years. Extraordinary. And certainly the brand that you're leading now is one of the things I'm very keen to get into EF Adventures, given my background at G Adventures, the Travel Corporation, and the fact you know we had brands that were competing with EF a go-ahead tours, like brands like Kantiki with the youth audience. And and one of the things that amazed me about your business is that not only is it so massive and global, but you know, we've got millions of travelers over that time. Um, but the fact you actually don't even sell yet through trade partners, you know, it's all direct to the consumer, which is another kind of staggering realization that the business is at this scale without that distribution channel. So um so tell us a little bit more about the um EF today. I guess that's uh you know, given that history and trajectory. And the specific thing I'm keen to understand is the EF world journeys and the the fact that you have introduced this adventure option that uh I I had seen actually um a presentation at ATTA from uh a friend of mine, Al Martian, who talked about EF and adventures. And I was so excited to see you going into this space and the destinations you serve. So I guess what propelled you into this new category?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so yeah, so EF World Journeys, the family of brands I mentioned includes uh three different three different businesses that uh cater for adults 18 uh to 80, so all different age groups. And uh EF Adventures is the newest of those three travel brands. So uh EF Adventures is for the active traveler who wants to get off the beaten path. They want to hike, bike, uh, kayak, yoga, explore the world in it in a more active way, but they also want the best of what you can see and learn about the destination that you're traveling to. So all of our EF World Journeys programs, no matter which of the travel brands, are rooted in learning. Uh, that we want to take people to help them learn about the stories behind the places that you're visiting, to meet the local people that live there, to taste the local foods. And so when we launched um EF Adventures, it was because we saw this growing interest in travelers to uh really both connect with people, connect with nature, uh, and also wanting to combine their passion for being active with learning. And we didn't see anyone else out there that was doing it quite in that way. Um, funny enough, our the EF Adventures, the concept of it, launched during the pandemic. You know, so we're in the middle of a global pandemic and we're thinking about what what new types of travel experiences can we help uh people go out and venture the world when that moment comes again. And it, you know, there was a a bit of a personal passion as well. You know, I myself am a super active, adventure-based traveler. I love to hike and run on the world's like greatest routes around the world. So um and EF is definitely a place that's filled. Passion is one of our core values at EF, and people really live and breathe travel, but also we're a very active culture who really puts a big emphasis on wellness. Um, and so, you know, team off sites often include some kind of hike or morning run or walk together. Um, and so a few of us were looking at, you know, what what our portfolio of offering had and what were the unique aspects that um set us apart as EF. And and one of those, one of the other elements that's unique is that EF owns a pro cycling team. So we have both a w uh men's and a women's team that compete in the Tour de France and the Tour de Femme. Super proud uh to have those um, you know, such an international group of men and women that are cycling with us. But we weren't doing a lot within the US market when it came to our our um cycling team. And so we thought, well, how do we sort of bring together this passion for being active and learning together with the you know unique fact that we have a cycling team that has unique expertise? Um and then we saw a growing, you know, the last piece of this that was really critical was that during the pandemic, you know, as people were feeling less connected, right? We were much more isolated. Um, and there coming out of the pandemic, people were really looking to connect. They were wanting to, you know, get back out in the world and take back the trips that they had missed, but they were also looking to do that in a more meaningful and purposeful way. Um, and in a way that helps them connect with, you know, community. There was really a resurgence of group travel, of people wanting not only just the ease and the support and the safety that comes with it, but the social connections that come with traveling as part of a group, where you're meeting other people who are interested in, you know, that are like-minded in the sense that they want to learn about the world and and in the case of EF Adventures, you know, explore the greatest, greatest, um, most iconic paths and and get out into nature and get off the beaten path. So we saw this rising trend of this connection that people wanted, the sense of community that people wanted, and then this desire to really invest in lifelong learning and their own well health and well-being. Um, and so that sparked the idea of launching EF Adventures. And it's now been we're almost at one our one-year anniversary of being live and uh having gone to market last fall. And we've had our first departures already on the road with outstanding feedback. Um people are absolutely loving the experience. Um, and we've kind of seen come to life this vision of our tagline, which is travel that moves you. Um, we want people to feel, you know, moved, of course, in the movement of what you're of the activity you're doing, but also, you know, it's much deeper than that. We want people to feel like they're um having an opportunity to reflect and um connect with others, connect with natures, and connect with themselves and come back with new perspectives.
SPEAKER_02:For sure. No, it's really exciting. And when I saw the brand for the very first time, my instant reaction to it was this is this meets the moment. Like this is uh perfectly on point because not only is it meeting customers where they are today post-pandemic, but also the brand history of EF. Like when you know a company that I've I would have always had a great respect and admiration for, EF, given that you know how to operate and the fact that you haq handle students, which is a very difficult market to serve, uh many people try and get into these different sectors of travel seeing an opportunity, but very few companies stand the test of time like EF. So the fact you work with students, you have this educational component and this language component that is a is really at the core of the business, but it's also where customers today they want that cultural connection, they want that immersion. Like the the history of the business starting with Swedish travelers going to England, um that premise is what most young travelers are looking for today, going from going into a a new culture, learning new languages. And and and so the other thing that stood out to me was yourself as the leader uh of this business. And I was like, you know, it's very it's not that often in this industry where the stars align. When I looked at this new proposition, I looked at the history of the brand, and I looked at you as the leader, and I was looking at your background because the one thing that's great about this conversation is Heidi and I have never met. That's one of the things that we've we've I saw her on stage and she was she was whisked off to do some incredible epic uh race, which I want you to tell everyone about as well. But I also just want to highlight one of the other reasons I was very keen to have you on the Travel Trends Podcast, Heidi, is because you are a perfect example of an incredible female executive that has risen up in the business, starting as a tour consultant and learning the business, as you know, we both referenced 20 years, but like you and but I think the next 20 years are probably the best is still yet to come with what you're gonna be able to bring to this business. But when you when you look at your history to um as you've grown in your career and with EF, it's very clear that you understand uh the full business. So tell us a little bit about what made you want to get into travel in the first place and what make how culturally aligned you are with the business in terms of adventure and and travel and and your enthusiasm for this space.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I absolutely love my job and live and breathe the mission. That's really what brought me to EF was the mission of opening the world through education. And, you know, I a little background of how I got into travel. So I I grew up in a small town in the Midwest in Kansas. And growing up, my my family didn't travel internationally. I didn't, I didn't know anyone that traveled internationally when I was growing up. And, you know, that was until my family stumbled into hosting international exchange students. So when I was in the fourth grade, uh, about nine years old, we hosted our first student from Norway. And then we proceeded over the next nine years until I graduated high school. We had nine students from nine different countries around the world. And it was incredibly impactful. Of course, I was at a key age where I was absorbing and learning. And, you know, for me, it was so exciting to have a new sister that was coming and joining our family every year that I got to learn from. And, you know, suddenly I was learning new words, you know, in other languages and tasting new foods that their family would send and the recipes that they would try to create that were nostalgic to them for home from home and you know, the celebrations around the holidays. And so I really uh had this interest in learning about other cultures that was that was um sparked from a from a very young age. But not knowing people that traveled, I really didn't know, you know, where that would lead me. Um and I went, you know, then when I went to university, uh I had an opportunity to join this program, this international community service program. I spent a summer in Mexico as part of a Rotary International grant and doing volunteer work and um working with a school with young, young women uh in this small town I was in in Mexico. And then that led me to apply for a year-long ambassadorial scholarship, where then I lived in Spain for a year and traveled throughout Europe. And I remember thinking, you know, this is this will be my only opportunity to get to Europe. And so I spent every penny and then some to travel as much as I possibly could and learn as much as I could. And uh, and it was right around that time that then I stumbled upon EF. And, you know, I I was hooked from day one. I, you know, walked in the door of EF and it's this vibrant culture. There's an energy that you feel no matter what office you go into around the world. And and everyone is really here with this shared mission of helping people experience and and learn about the world and other cultures and other languages and through all through any of our different EF programs. And so when I started, I started as a uh tour consultant. So that's our sales role, and it was in EF Go Ahead Tours, which is our product for adult travelers. So a lot of those travelers, 35 plus, but the core tends to be people right around retirement age or getting ready to and are wanting to go and and live out those, you know, life dreams that they've been saving for to go and and experience new places they've been dreaming of forever. So we we actually talk a lot about our in our sales culture. I talk uh in terms of not sales numbers, but in terms of travel dreams, because we're really helping bring people's dreams to life and giving them the confidence and and inspiration to go. Um, but it's so much more meaningful than that, which is what has kept me through EF through the years. You know, we're we're a part of people's stories, we're a part of their life moments. We're helping people celebrate milestones or get through a difficult time and uh and travel is so enriching and meaningful and impactful. Um, and so for me it's it's all mission. That's you know, I have stayed and we like are a culture that lives and breathes our values and our and our mission every day, and trying to help inspire more people to to go. And um, and so I'm not done yet, as you say. You know, twenty twenty-one years in, and I have many more years to come to uh to to go ahead of me to make a big impact.
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SPEAKER_02:I'm actually just reading Mark Carney's book, who's now the Canadian Prime Minister. I'm not bringing in politics into this conversation. The reason I'm actually mentioning it is because when he was the bank of uh when he was the governor of the Bank of England, he used to run to work both directions each day. And for him, that was actually part of his his daily routine to be able to keep up his physical health, his mental health, and to be able to, you know, how no matter how stressful his day had been, he was going to put on his running shoes and he was going to run home. And uh and I so I I I love that about uh just in terms of learning from other leaders of how they manage stress. Uh but tell us a little bit about the event you were doing when uh I saw you in Denver, where you were heading off to. Tell everyone about what you're heading off to and how you have decided to kind of build this into. You love travel, you obviously love exercise and outdoor activity. How have you built this into your career?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. And actually, I have to I'll have to look at that book because uh I can relate to it. I also run in and home from work. So uh I'll alternate. I'll, you know, bike in, run home, run in, bike home. And it's about a 10 mile uh ride or run, and it's through the city. It's you know, it's it's definitely both stress relief, but also absolutely energizing. I get in, I get into the office in the morning and I'm usually listening to podcasts and uh on my run and stopping every so often to write down an idea that I have, and I come in and like filled with energy, ready to start the day. And you know, at the end of the day, I can help helps me process um any, you know, tough decisions that have to be made or ideas that we were generated, generating, or conversations that I had. So um love to be outdoors and and have that sort of time um to be active coming in. But to answer your question, which was the the event that I did, so after the adventure travel trade association event that was in in Denver, I where I spoke, uh I headed right off to Kansas, actually my home state. So it was super meaningful for me, and did something called Unbound Gravel. So this is a the world's largest gravel race, and it brings in people from, I think there were 12,000 uh different participants that were coming from somewhere around 40 different countries around the world and that come together to this uh smaller town that's in Kansas, Emporia, Kansas, to do this gravel bike bike race in the Flint Hills, which are beautiful and very peaceful. So I did the 50 mile version uh of this race. And uh, but we actually had one of our pro riders, Lachlan Morton, who did the 250 mile version of the race, which is super inspirational to have seen. So yeah, and I, you know, I that's how I I love to keep myself active. You know, I do I'm traveling actually soon to go to Switzerland, and we have a few meetings in our international headquarters in Zurich. And the weekend after the meetings, there's a big group of us from EF Adventures and EF Go Ahead tours that are staying and planning to do a hike in the Alps. And, you know, both because we love it, and it's a great way to get to, you know, spend time together and get to know each other better. And there's, I mean, one of the most beautiful places in the world are the Swiss Alps.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, yeah. No, stunningly beautiful. And you definitely, the the book is interesting. Clearly, you um, I guess one thing that's similar to uh in both of us, that the original idea for this podcast was connected to the fact I used to ride my bike into and out of the office every day in Lonely Planet, living in Melbourne, great weather. So you could do that year-round um, less in Canada, but nevertheless uh in Australia, we I rode my bike to the office every day, and I used to listen to podcasts, and I used to take those learnings and I would apply them to my role. And um, and so this is always what I'm thinking about when I have the privilege to speak to someone like you, is that exactly that person that is riding their bike to work and that's looking up and admires you with what you've accomplished in your career and ultimately would love to have a role like yours. So uh I want to stay on that topic for a little bit longer, and then I want to get your your views on the industry and trends and insights. But in terms of leadership, that's one of the things I was keen to understand. You're as a leader of this business, and clearly you um you've grown effective teams because you've been in like sales managers' roles and president roles and VP roles. As you as you are uh going up in your career, you're taking people with you, you're creating opportunities for other people. Tell us a little bit about your management style and how you work with those people around you, because everyone I could see gravitates to you and you have just a great energy about you. So, what is it that you're consciously trying to uh achieve with your management style? And then I'm also keen to know about your vision for the future of this business. But tell us a little bit about how the the team culture that you've been very focused on creating around you.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, and thank you. I mean community is everything, I would say. You know, people, the heart of what we do, it's rooted in people. That's the business that we're into is is, you know, helping people live out their dreams or enrich their lives in some ways. And, you know, we're a learning culture. So we're not only, you know, educational travel for and educational, you know, programming for our customers, but we're also about that internally. We're constantly learning and growing and trying to improve. So, you know, I would say the things that are important to me are this sense of community. I want to know my team and have the team know each other. And I think we can solve, we can do hard things together. We can solve big challenges when we work together and bring in everyone's unique skill sets all together. And uh, so that's really important to me is to building this sense of community and connection. And then the other piece of it is that, you know, I'm definitely a lifelong learner. I never want to stop learning. I never want to stop growing. And I, you know, want that for my team too. I think, you know, we're a lot of times um that's when we're at our best, is when we can feel ourselves growing. And even even in the tough times, sometimes we grow the most and we come out of it stronger on the other side. And but you've got to continuously, you know, for me, I've learned in my career, you know, I sort of need to be the owner of my growth, even though I've had many amazing mentors that have supported me along the way. Um, but I've really tried to encourage that with anyone else that I've worked with at EF to continuously push yourself to take, you know, take on new challenges, to be reading, to be listening to podcasts, to be, you know, trying to challenge your way of thinking. And that's what's kept me fresh throughout my 20 years of working with the EF World Journeys brands and working with the Go Ahead Tours brand during that time is that I'm constantly learning. It's a growth mindset. You know, I love big, bold goals in work and in life. Uh, I think that it takes us further if we can envision something that's that's bold and um expansive. And, you know, we approach everything with this mindset of of, you know, what if? And so that's how I try to approach both my work and also, you know, in in life, whether that's doing a big race or a big, you know, adventure race somewhere in the world, um, it helps me grow and develop. So those are those are a few things we also lead with strengths. We have uh we love strength finders at EF, and I'm a big fan of it. And so, you know, I have uh positivity and futuristic and strategic uh and achiever and includer in my top five. And so it's this combination of constantly looking to the future and trying to, you know, connect with people and bring them along in that journey. So no, that's great.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate you sharing that. And then one other thing I wanted to follow up and ask you at this point in the conversation. Usually I leave this for the end, but given we've been kind of alluding to the future with the EF, and you you know, you've taken on this role in the last year, and I'm sure you're thinking about 2030, that like the next three to five years, where do you want to take this business? Obviously, the EF Adventures is one of the most exciting developments, but you've got a massive core business as well. And so you've got so many different opportunities as far as I'm concerned, especially when we're seeing this dramatic increase in travel, despite short-term geopolitical setbacks that always occur in travel. There is a long-term trend that I'm sure you and the team and uh are paying very close attention to over the next 10 years with you know the generational wealth transfer, one thing that people are traveling more than ever, young people are spending more, and this is where I want to get into some of the trends that you guys have done in your reports. But just before we do, tell us a little bit about your vision for the company and where you see EF in the next five years. Is is there a 2030 vision or how do you guys plan for the next three to five years?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there's so much ahead. You know, as you said, it's uh this generation, the, you know, Gen Z is one of the most well-traveled generations, and that's going to only continue. And I think also right now, what we do uh is as relevant as ever. You know, people are looking for more purposeful, more intentional travel. They're wanting to, you know, not just uh sit at the beach or at the resort, you know, they're wanting to actually connect with the the stories behind the places that they're visiting, to connect with local people that live there, to experience the local traditions, you know, to learn the history to have history come to life, you know, to not just see the sites that they've seen maybe on in films and on Instagram and other social media, you know, platforms, but to actually learn about them as well and and gain some some uh grab this grab the the iconic image and then actually learn something about the place that you're visiting at that time. And so this is more relevant than ever. You know, people are traveling more than they ever have uh in the past. And you know they're also looking for companies that put a big focus on uh responsible tourism. You know, this is a a core uh of EF's uh tour design is that we um approach all of our tours with a lens on three main pillars. So we're thinking about the um the local communities that we're visiting and our impact there. We're looking at the impact in the environment and we're looking at the impact on animal welfare. And so that's core in our tour design and that's really we saw this and we'll talk trends in a minute but we've seen this in in the surveys that travelers actually of all ages are really looking for this in a company they travel with. So you know I think that there's so much more whether it's EF Ultimate break, EF Adventures or EF Go Ahead tours there's lots more destinations for us to visit there's lots more ways that we can help people travel. We've launched some of those this year already to help people experience based on their own passions, whether that's you know literary tours like our book talk that we have with EF Ultimate Break or you know helping people women we launched a series of women's tours that actually for EF GoAhead tours that are women led and we visit women owned you know businesses and suppliers that help people connect with other women in their live stories. And then of course EF Adventures you know it's we're we're just getting started and in the places and the types of experiences we can introduce so we just launched a new Norway Fjords tour. We also launched some uh a tour to Patagonia I'm actually going to Patagonia soon um so experience excited to experience that so there's countless ideas for how we can help people uh how we can foster lifelong learning and our mission of opening the world that's great and obviously one of the ways you do that is surveying and getting a good understanding of what's happening.
SPEAKER_02:So you uh EF GoAhead Tours has their traveler index and I was reading this with great interest and anticipation for our conversation because one of the things that stood out to me and I'd seen Brian Hoyt post this on LinkedIn I was fascinating I was reading through some of the survey findings and one of them was that actually younger people are less likely to go on dating sites and they're more likely to travel and with the intention to meet people, which is also is also kind of you know written on our DNA and partly what brands like Kantiki were intended for in the first place. But it's interesting to see how things swing back and all of a sudden there is much more of an interest of like you know in terms of finding chemistry with somebody it's less about looking at the specific height and like just specific requirements on a dating website as opposed to someone that you actually share common interests with and meet in the real world.
SPEAKER_04:So I mean I love that trend actually that was like that's one of the most fun trends I saw in that in the EF Ultimate break traveler index that uh it's great that people are wanting to connect in real life and go out and venture in the world and what better way to get to know someone than when you're traveling together and going through new experiences and challenging yourself in new ways. And so I love that I was actually also just reading there's a new trend with camps a lot of young people wanting to do a uh you know embrace the nostalgia of your childhood when you used to go to summer camp every year and they're wanting to do these adult camps where they meet new people and so we're like hey what could that mean for uh our experience our you know tour experiences and you know at the root of that is this again this idea of connection. People are wanting to connect we're such a you know digitally driven world that's certainly our future I didn't mention that but of course AI is going to play a role in the in the future of uh of travel and of every industry it's gonna impact it. But of course social media has been been a big influence in the last decade and you know that I think people are now you know wanting they're they're recognizing what they're missing as much as you know there's good that comes from that they're missing this uh in-person connection and meaning and and community building and that's like the whole beauty of going on a group tour is that you meet other interesting people whether you're going out you know looking for someone to date or whether you're just looking to meet new interesting people uh in either way.
SPEAKER_02:Well here's an interesting question in terms of the number of marriages that you guys have been responsible for do you have any date on any data on that?
SPEAKER_04:You know that's funny. We should actually do a little research on that but we've definitely had a lot of proposals. We've had a lot of uh people meet on tour we've even had uh tour directors that have uh flown we had one one uh one tour director about a year and a half ago who uh there a couple they met on a go-ahead tour and then invited the tour director to conduct the ceremony so uh he flew out to California we helped uh fly him out there so he could be there for the the um for the ceremony and and officiant for it so but there's so many more stories of of proposals and marriages yeah well it's interesting that as things have like multiday tour this whole category that very few agree on the terminology you know uh tour radar uses the term organize adventures even Intrepid uses the idea of like sustainable small group trips um so people can't agree is it adventure is it multi-day tour?
SPEAKER_02:The reality is they're group trips my my thing is like if there if uh if there's a group you have a guide and you're traveling somewhere else together you're probably on a and it's more than one day you're on a multi-day tour. But one of the things from ITB the stats that the number of people are taking multi-day tours now exceed the number of people have taken independent trips. So companies like yours that have been doing multi-day tours for decades that do it so well. And this is one of the I think is one of the incumbent advantages when we do talk about AI and technology is that you actually have the direct relationship with the customer and the product delivery. And so however they get there to you marketing distribution obviously a lot of those are going to be impacted by AI. But the core experience delivery largely in the next say 10 or 15 years is going to remain the same because the you're you want to meet other humans and go out into the world and have great experiences. So um I see AI having great benefits. We're doing our AI summit of course the end of October but as an overall big uh trend the idea of multi-day trips arrival of obviously bringing that to the forefront this year at their event in Washington. And so very keen to know when you think about multi-day tour trips and you see some of those trends, I'd love to hear what else what else stood out to you from those like what other surprising or interesting insights came out of those reports as it relates to people embracing multi-day travel.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah so you know on the on the topic of of AI, you know it's it um it wasn't surprising necessarily but it just um you can see how quickly it's changing the landscape and how people are searching and discovering travel. So you know we saw that 79% of our our uh EF ultimate break audience so you know travelers that are 18 to 35 so Gen Z young millennials are already using AI tools to search and discover and dream um and in some cases book travel. And so you know what and then we're seeing that continue to grow. So for EF Adventures that that percentage was closer to about 35% of that audience is is starting to use those tools to search and discover. You know, but what the what sets group travel and what we do at EF apart is the community aspect. So the group aspect, the social connections that you don't get if you're just booking an independent trip, that you miss out on this meeting other interesting people. It's the you know relationships that we have for you know decades with local local suppliers like finding that very special unique family-owned vineyard or restaurant that's out in the countryside that would be really difficult to get to uh on your own or you even couldn't because they only open up you know for special occasions and for special groups with longstanding relationships, which we've built having an international you know global company and legacy with success in helping support them. So you know our suppliers are a big part of um how we curate our experiences and those relationships help bring to life the the places that you're visiting. And then there's just we're rooted in learning. So you know if you are booking something independently you don't have the local guide who is an expert in the history of where you're going or has grown up in that region, you know, and and can give you the little insider tips and gets to know you and what matters to you. And something we talk a lot about with uh with EF World Journeys is how are we making the experience you know easy. So truly you know how every step of the the way to be supportive uh we're you know one of the leading companies when it comes to safety uh infrastructure and and we have a you know 24-7 emergency infrastructure that's there to support people we're also talking about how we make it really personal. So we want people to be you know each each individual that's on that trip has a reason. They have a why of what brought them to that destination or made them choose that itinerary and that's really what our our consultants and our tour directors they're uh they love to do is understanding the why for that traveler and how do you make that journey really special for them. And then it's the making them truly immersive so that people are learning and connecting with the local culture and traditions. And then it's how you know we are again connecting people and to the place and to each other. So this sets it apart and I think while AI will help people you know fuel inspiration and ideas and um and allow companies to you know scale person that sort of personalization and make the booking process easy. What can't be replicated is really that you know in-person connectivity with other travelers. And so I think it's exciting it's a really exciting moment to see that and to see how much the group travel industry or the multi-day industry is is growing right now and we've seen this resurgence and this you know renaissance as some would call it uh coming out of the pandemic and how much we've um dramatically grown as people returning to group travel.
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SPEAKER_02:There's three things that stood out to me in your report and I just wanted to call out a couple of them to get your your take on one is sustainability and this is a topic that we've talked about for you know 10 or 15 years going all the way back to Al Gore's an inconvenient truth and now we're living with the realities that were presented then in terms of climate change and it is certainly one of the biggest trends that we're also seeing that people are responding to climate change where some destinations are overheated and overcrowded. And the stat that stood out to me was that 89% of travelers in your study are prioritizing sustainable travel choices.
SPEAKER_04:So I I'd love to get your take on that with how EF World Journeys is addressing that demand for a more eco-conscious travel that's right yeah we've seen that across all three of our family of brands and so whether you're you know Gen Z to baby boomers this has now become a priority for all travelers. And with that not only are you know 89% prioritizing it but about a little over half of travelers told us they're willing to pay more in order to you know make that happen in their trip. So there's a few things that we've been doing actually a lot not a few things there's a lot this has been a focus for EF for you know well before even the pandemic and and now when it's sort of in the forefront um and I mentioned earlier but I'll mention them here the the three pillars to tour design for responsible tour design. You know so the first is this you know protecting the environment and so we're looking at how we measure um measure our carbon impact that we're having with our trips. We're looking at you know who we're selecting as suppliers and what are their sustainability policies and so that we're choosing responsible suppliers and that this is at the forefront of their decision making as well. We were um we're thinking about it in the tour design process of how you know people are transporting between you know locations. Like most of our trips you're not actually circling back. So you don't fly in and out of the same airport you actually fly into one airport out of another airport so that you're not backtracking that's actually also very convenient for people it's uh to not have to do to backtrack on the trip. So there's so many elements that we're designing with supplier experiences that we're having on the ground whether that's you know in Costa Rica and you're learning about you know regenerative sustainable farming practices and going to a tree farm so many activities that embrace this philosophy. The second is around how we're you know investing back into the local community. So again this comes into the tour design of who we're choosing as our suppliers and our partners and does that positively impact back into the community? Does that help people understand, you know, get uh cultural relevance in that in that destination so there's a lot in the types of activities whether it's women's co-ops that people are getting to go and meet the women there and understand how their contributions are going back into that local community. And then it's protecting animal welfare. That's um a big priority for us. It's uh you know we've whether that's you know if you're visiting the elephants in Thailand, you know, we're choosing where we're going so we're not doing elephant rides, but instead we're going someplace where we're learning how they're you know being protected and taken care of. So um this is a key priority and it's great to see that you know as as consumers are uh focused on that too and you know we're looking at we've we give um water bottles out on many of our products so that people can re-do a refillable water bottle while they're on tour and we're giving them tips before they go and while they're on the trip of how they can you know practice sustainable and responsible um you know behaviors I guess while they're on tour.
SPEAKER_02:So well it's interesting because obviously seeing this industry evolve and no the number of companies that were almost ahead of their time with trying to address this need because they were many companies were stumbling over them each other trying to do more to present themselves as more sustainable as the alternative but it wasn't yet like pre-pandemic it really wasn't making a big impact on consumer decisions. Cost was obviously like the pri pricing and value. And so what you called out is really important that 50% of the people are also willing to pay more for sustainable options. So the other thing I wanted to ask you on one of the trends we've talked already about people seeking connection and community and that certainly stood out in solo travel is one of the fastest growing sectors. So keen to get any additional takes from you on that but the the one thing I'm also really keen to get into further to the conversation about sustainability is this question of value for trips. And something I learned from Stanley Tolman who I learned a great deal from and his son Brett of course who was uh two of my mentors in the travel industry for nearly a decade and one of the things I learned certainly from from Stanley who created you know a hundred year uh business to travel corporation that was ultimately sold to Apollo and it's like um private equity firm but one of the things I learned from from him was this concept of value and that you have to present like consumers are smart make sure that you present to them a really compelling uh itinerary with all the options that are and and with the right price that people feel like that's great value for money. And so is and and that's where people are both rational and irrational creatures but in terms of looking at an itinerary and looking what the experience they're gonna have and then what the cost is going to be so one of the things that stood out to me about your report was that 64% of travelers are motivated by off-peak discounts and we're starting to see people play games with pricing. I've certainly experienced that myself where you mark things up to discount them. That's already a concern with some brands in this some companies in this space. But in terms of customers looking for value or looking for off-peak discounts that obviously clearly is a trend. So I'm just keen to know you know how EF would apply that insight to your pricing strategy or your promotional strategy to be able to continue to gain market share because I think that's an important one that a lot of companies struggle with. It's like they put so much time and effort into putting a product together and then all of a sudden people are looking for discounts and it's a very hard thing to try and uh achieve so keen to get your take on that as a leader of a global company.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah great question. So I mean solo and off season are two of the biggest trends right now that uh across the travel industry. So when it comes to off season you know that there's a few reasons why that's trending. You of course have great value to your point, you know, that's that is less expensive to travel in the offseason. And when we talk about off season, you know, for anyone listening that you, you know, you have if you think about Europe, that typically there would be sometime October through maybe April and then you start to hit back into peak and the summer months are peak, you know, and it's off season is different time of the year other parts of the world. And so besides the savings it's also just like one of the most beautiful times of year to travel. If you're gonna explore a destination you have less crowds. So you know you're not waiting in in super long lines to try to get into a you know key site that you want to see and uh you don't have you know is you have more access to you know the restaurants that you might want to try or um you know the small unique different sites or museums that you want to get into. So there's there's more access, less crowds. The weather is just delightful. It's it's beautiful there's you know light jacket or or not. I mean I've been in Greece in February and didn't even have a jacket on and the sun was shining and it was uh you had sort of you're up at the top of the Acropolis and less crowds and it just yeah beautiful. So I actually you know it's another one of the best kept secrets in the industry is off season and the word is out and and travelers are um embracing it. So we've actually launched at EF GoAhead tours we've now launched a series of offseason specific itineraries. So we've always had tours that travel during the offseason but these are specifically designed to capture what's you know the highlights of a destination during the offseason. So places like Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, UK and Ireland, you know, those are some of the the destinations that we visit on these offseason tours. Again great value you know getting at a lower cost traveling that time of year and and just more access as well. So highly recommend it. One of my favorite memories was traveling in Sicily in March. Oh it's if it's uh I really recommend it's absolutely beautiful blue skies, sparkling seas, and it's when all of the uh blood oranges are in season.
SPEAKER_02:So you'll see trucks along the side of the road just filled with piles of of oranges and you know fresh um fruits and vegetables that you're eating and visiting the local markets and you know we went to uh the uh the bar that was featured in uh one of the Godfather films and sort of had it to ourselves with a cannoli in hand and so uh there's so many reasons to travel during the offseason leave the gun take the cannoli yes that's uh that's right um the uh it's really fascinating because obviously this is where you have a great vantage point to see customer decision in real time of what stations are looking at because one of the trends that you just alluded to of course is the cool cation and the idea people are traveling at different not different times of the year for sure like May is the new July is a phrase I've also heard and that um um and that people are generationally like um because this is one of the questions I'm keen to ask you as well is the difference between generations but in terms of destinations clearly older or younger travelers will uh gravitate to shoulder seasons or finding great value or choosing a cool location that they'll go to Scandinavia instead of Southern Europe in July. But one of the things I was also keen to to ask you on this topic is the difference between the generations because you again have a really unique insight into that because you market to Gen Z and millennials and then as you highlighted at the beginning of our discussion about the different brands you also market and anyone who's gone to EF.com which I'm sure quite a few people during this conversation to really understand the business and all the different brands because you actually break it down by age group and so you can see the different demographics. One of the things I'm really keen to understand how you're successful at doing both because I have definitely seen from my experience working with multiple travel brands like in-house at G Adventures trying to figure out how best to target different markets and then even with a company like the travel corporation that has brands for different age groups from Kantiki to Trafalgar to Insight and certain brands are really successful at at matching their offering, their messaging to a specific audience but I've not seen a brand like EF that is can be great at both. Like you're great at youth marketing and you're great at baby boomers. So tell us a little bit about how how you view those generational differences between those two and how you you know you cater EF ultimate breaks to the younger demographic and then the 35 plus. So yeah how do you as an organization approach that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah yeah well you got to know your customer that's you know that's the why we're here. You know for me that's that's the why I I've been in this business for 21 years and I can clearly see the impact that our programs have on our customers and that's you know what brands need to do and we we need everyone that's working in the company no matter if you're in a role where you're talking to customers every day or you're in a role where you're building the platforms that sort of support our customers every day everyone should know our customer. So we actually at EF do something really special where all of our team members will go on a tour each year. So it it does a few things it helps them get to you know our team members get a chance to um connect with our travelers they get to see the product in real life experience it from you know every step of the journey they interact we have a a very cool feature that's our mobile app. We were one of the first travel companies to have a mobile app and what's beautiful about it is it helps people engage with each other and meet each other in the group even before they go throughout the trip and when they come back. So it really with that mission of fostering connection and community. And this gives our staff when they're going a chance to interact and see how it works, see it come to life and so and and spend time with our customers. So you go, you know, depending on which of the products that you're working with in some cases you might be working with all three so you'll change which uh which tour uh you would go on each year so that you can meet our suppliers and partners, you can, you know, sleep in the hotel, eat the meal, um, help rate the experiences, uh scout for new experiences to try to find like what's the next hidden gem and thing that you know people are going to want to want to be doing and spend a lot of time talking to our customers. We have the advantage you mentioned mentioned earlier on the call around how we work direct with our customers and that gives us an advantage that every single day all day we are getting to hear insights from our travelers. So you know how that shows up can be different if you're uh in EF GoAhead tours most of that is happening over the phone most travelers are calling in and talking to us uh if for EF Ultimate break which is our product for Gen Z travelers that might be happening on chat sometimes on the phone but mostly mostly we're chatting or texting uh to message uh or emailing uh with with our Gen Z customers but all day getting those insights um we also do an evaluation so every single tour there's an evaluation of the tour that's built into our mobile app that I mentioned that you get a chance to give us your feedback on every component of the experience and we have a whole team that is a quality a quality control and customer loyalty team that that's what they spend their days on is reading the reviews and the feedback that we're hearing. They read our online reviews they're taking that feedback then and giving it to our operations teams or our service teams that we can continue to improve. And so it's it's uh yeah number one is like knowing our customers inside and out understanding our product and how people are really experiencing it. And then when it comes to the design of the trip so you know what someone's looking so when you're you know in your 20s and you're wanting to go visit a destination of course there's some things that are very similar you know you want to learn about the city that you're visiting and you know but you might also want to do something that's a bit more active maybe you want to do a a a night's you know go on the a walking tour of the markets at night and you know have or and you know taste the local spirit that might be you know typical to that location. And you know of course you want to have some fun. So you might want to go out into the evening um and you know experience what night life is in a destination as well. But it's actually you know it's uh you're right there. All of our travelers they have in common is they want to learn. So they're right there bright and early the next morning and ready to go out and adventure the next day. But we will curate the types of things that they're doing based on you know their interests. So in you know the wine windows of Florence is a good example. That was a big trend. We saw it trending on TikTok and on different social platforms. And so we incorporated uh an experience into our EF ultimate break uh tours that went through Florence for a chance to experience the wine windows. And you know we have tour directors that uh we we specifically recruit and train and support tour directors that are professional tour directors for each of the three products. And so that is a a team that is working with the tour directors are basically your guide that's with you from start to finish on the trip. There also are eyes and ears on the ground that can give us feedback on what people are loving and wanting to do differently. So we'll, you know, specially select tour directors that are going to you know connect with that particular audience of customers with whether it's EF Ultimate break or someone that's more active like EF Adventures, you know, or someone who is lifelong learning and they want food and wine tours and safaris and wildlife that if you're going with EF go ahead tours. So it's really in every step of the process um to understanding what matters most, uh whether you're Gen Z or baby boomer.
SPEAKER_02:When this comes together in terms of the destinations, clearly there's going to be places like Japan that young and old both want to go to but there's going to be destinations like South Korea, for example, that a younger generation given you know the black pink and the rise of these incredible artists from that region and also just what an amazing place South Korea is to travel where younger people are putting their hands up to say or looking for destinations. Because as we both know many people do start with a destination in mind that something has sparked them that they want to go to a destination and then they start looking at companies that can take them there. And then of course you have customers that you've uh been with you for many years that are looking for you to introduce new itineraries and go to new destinations. So I'm genuinely keen to know when it comes to making decisions about just destinations, how do you determine what you're going to market to the younger audience versus an older audience? Because again, clearly there's likely overlap in some cases, but in other instances you may actually have you know Columbia is not a luxurious destination but it's a really affordable destination and it's got so much to offer a younger generation. So how do you differentiate what destinations you're going to promote to what demographics?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah it's a great question and you used a perfect example like South Korea and Japan. I actually just got back from South Korea and Japan. I took my 20 year old niece on an EF GoAhead tour and we truly had travelers of all ages, all generations from 17 to 70s we had travelers from every generation that that were going and some there with their mom or their dad or their aunt or uncle and and friends going and solo travelers and a mix and so inspirational to see all the generations coming together. But a dust Asia is Asia is a big trend and I would say what's interesting with EF Ultimate Break is you sort of see the trends set by the younger generation. And it's so it started we saw this growth of Asia happening with the you know Gen Z audience and 20 something year olds super interested in things like you know K pop or K dramas that have become really popular or anime when it comes to Japan. So this uh this trend though has also now reached the uh EF Go Ahead tours so the older travelers that are now also wanting to go and experience South Korean Japan Japan. So a great example in South Korea, you know, on our EF Ultimate Break itinerary, we do a K-pop dance class and so much fun. I uh it's not something we do on our um, we do it now actually in a brand new itinerary we just launched for go-ahead tours, but we hadn't done it before. We started with EF Ultimate Break and it became so popular. And uh, and I actually we tried it out with my niece, um, and it was a blast. It was so much fun. But that that's something that that the younger generation was really interested in. You know, the older generation was uh really interested in visiting the DMZ, which is an inclusion on our South Korea tour. Um, this is the D militar militarized zone that's between North and South Korea, and you go there and have a chance to visit the um the memorial that's there and the museum, and you get a chance to learn about the history, and that's really fascinating. But we do both of those activities on on both of the products. It's just the the interest level um starts in different different places. Um but you're you know, you're right. We're what we're doing from a destination, it's it's less about, you know, in most countries that we're visiting, you know, most of the three products will also visit there, but they do it in different ways. And so if you take EF Adventures, when we go to Italy, you know, we're doing really off-the-beaten path experiences. And you're going, you know, we have a a biking tour in Tuscany where you'll bike through the countryside and then you'll end your day at an agriturismo and have, you know, a wine tasting or a cooking class, or, you know, meet the owners and hear their stories. And, you know, you're staying at a uh, you know, premium like prod uh hotel that has beautiful views of the countryside, a swimming pool, spa amenities to sort of rest and recover after the end of your biking journey that you've had. So, um, or you're going and you're, you know, hiking or biking in the dolomites, which is really challenging route, and then staying at a you know, mountain chalet that's um up in the, you know, in the the peaks. And again, you know, with amenities and foods that are focused on wellness and you know, spa like a small amenities that can help you recover. So, you know, that might be a typical itinerary for an EF Adventures traveler. If you're going with EF Go Ahead tours, you might either do a grand tour of Italy, north to south, to to experience what each region has that's very unique, um, or something like a food and wine tour. One of my favorite tours I've been on was our food and wine tour of Tuscany and Umbria. Um, and I've also done the one that's in northern Italy. And so each day you're doing wine tastings and you're learning about the process of making the wine and um you'll have food pairings with it, and you'll go visit a Parmigiano Reggiano factory and meet the owner and hear their stories of how it was passed down for generations. Then you might go to a local market and you know, pick up some fruits and cheeses and breads and have a little picnic. And so it's just, you know, Italy is still popular no matter if you're no matter what age you are. It's uh it's one of the top destinations for US travelers to go abroad. But just how you're experiencing it might vary.
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Powell For sure. And you also point out something interesting there, too, is that certain destinations are year-round, and Japan is one of those, is that you actually there's four seasons, and you can you've got the cherry blossom season, it's great to go in the wintertime. Like so there's some of these destinations you go once and you want to go back to see it at a different time of the year. Um but but I had a couple other personal insight questions for you, and then I want to uh finish off with a few rapid-fire questions for our listeners as well to get some insights from you. But uh one of the things I wanted to ask you just from your personal experience is and given our listeners are many of them are I I refer to them as decision influencers as much as decision makers, they're the people that are coming to you and your team and making recommendations to, hey, I listen to this podcast, or I, you know, I think this destination is actually really interesting. So one of the things I would love to ask you is that you know, if you could uh give advice to your uh 20-year-old self, if you could rewind time, um, what would be one piece of advice for someone starting their career in the travel industry?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, the travel industry is a work of passion. You know, you you find when people stay in the industry for a long time, it's because they love travel. They love to learn about new destinations and they want to find the hidden gem and the place that they haven't, you know, explored before, and your list becomes very long of all the places that you want to go. Um, and so learn a lot, like read a lot, learn a lot about different places that you it will help you later um in your career to, you know, really immerse yourself in in um in understanding what makes each each country, each destination unique, what the experiences are they have to offer, um, what the culture, cultural differences are in that destination. I mean, there's there's lots of stories there about um funny moments and cross-cultural communications, a topic I'm really interested in and um working with an international travel company. And so, you know, starting to learn about the difference differences in communication across cultures is helpful in your career. Um but really just, I mean, my best advice is like be a learner, embrace a growth mindset, and that will help you no matter what career path you go on.
SPEAKER_02:Very valuable insights. And how do you then personally stay curious and inspired?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I love, I mean, I live the brand. I travel a lot, um, both for work and for personal. And even when I'm on a work trip, I try to attack on a weekend so I can go hike or explore some new place I haven't been to before. Um, there's, you know, mind I read many years ago about mindfulness and try to practice that in my day-to-day, uh, that you can be moving so quickly, but you can find sparks of curiosity and inspiration in your day-to-day, whether you're at home or on your commute or in a conversation or past someone in a hallway, or you're in a new destination and talking to someone new. And so, you know, wellness is important to me. And I really think mindful, mindfulness is a uh important part of wellness and trying to be present. Um, and you know, I mentioned before, relationships are important to me, and you can learn a lot from other other people when you're, you know, when you are curious and you want to learn about them.
SPEAKER_02:No, I really appreciate you sharing that. I think it means more to our listeners than at first because it it's something they can take away in action in their own lives, and also just hearing from someone like yourself who has, you know, risen to such a prominent position in the industry and is obviously going to continue to shape the industry, knowing those things are, you know, so important, not only to get yourself there, but keep yourself there at the same time, right? Um, this has been a fantastic conversation. I just have three rapid fire questions, and then I will give you the last word. All right. Let's do it. So you mentioned you travel a lot and clearly you do. What is something you take on a trip that you wouldn't leave home without?
SPEAKER_04:My running shoes. Always. First thing that's packed, I make sure I have a good pair of running shoes, usually some kind of trail shoes, so I have an option to go hiking. Should I should I see a great opportunity to get off the beaten path?
SPEAKER_02:And then what resource, whether it's a website, an app, and obviously it can't be EF. I know you've got the EF app. Um, but where else do you turn for assistance in your travels or for inspiration?
SPEAKER_04:To my head of market development. He's the first person I ask. And he's where he's a uh walking, you know, encyclopedia of the world and talk about someone that's passionate about travel uh and you know loves history. So that that would be the first person that I would message would be our head of market development. Um, but to answer what you're getting at, I mean, I actually use Chat GPT a lot now too, for little things. I I think it's interesting for little very specific, you know, if I'm trying to find a restaurant that is uh specific to an interest, I might, you know, turn to that and use it as a tool now.
SPEAKER_02:That's interesting. I love that you actually picked person first over technology. I was gonna instantly say that. Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_04:I probably have five more people after that that I would probably use first uh because they have the local insider knowledge. It's the benefit of working with an international travel company.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. Exactly. You have access to those resources. Awesome. And then last question favorite travel destination and why? This could be where you're going next, or but yes.
SPEAKER_04:It is, it's always my hardest question. I mean, my real answer is any place I haven't been. I love going new places. I love the, you know, feeling out of your comfort zone and you know, challenging yourself to learn something new, a new language, try a new food. So, you know, I always am looking forward to someplace new. But if I if I'm going back and picking a repeat place, it's always a tough tie between the, you know, between Switzerland and getting out into the Alps, which is just absolute natural beauty, or uh Italy. I mean, the food. You can't, um, I can never get enough gelato or pizza, true Italian pizza and good wine. So uh, but that's always a tough one. I've seen some pretty, there's some pretty beautiful places around this world, um, you know, Japan and South Korea included, which I just just got back from, and such interesting cultures to learn about. So always I but I will always choose someplace new.
SPEAKER_02:Very cool. And that clearly is your personality. That's obviously like exploration. There's a lot that I've certainly uh I've benefited from from this conversation. I'm sure our listeners have as well. Um, your next major competition, where are you off to next for uh your next marathon or your next adventure race? What's uh what's next for you?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I actually have a uh uh race that's coming up. It's not till next May, so I may have to do, I may need to sign myself up for something beforehand, but it's in Scotland. It's a trail race, uh running race that's in Scotland next uh spring. And uh, but I have a few trips before then. I'll be at the ATTA conference uh World Summit that's in Patagonia. And so we're gonna go and do a couple of the hikes that we offer on our EF Adventures tours while we're there. And uh can't wait. I've never been I've never been to uh Chile and Patagonia, so excited for that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, amazing. And I will be there as well, so I'll look forward to meeting you in person. Great. And I have been there once, and it is absolutely extraordinary. But I'm gonna be hiking and kayaking, and it's an amazing week before the event that each of us are doing various activities. So yeah, I look forward to meeting you there, but I can't thank you enough for being a part of this Travel Trends Podcast, season six, Captains of Industry. Um, you've certainly lived up to all of my expectations in this uh interview, and I'm really excited to continue to see you shine in the industry, whether it's at Skift or any of the big conferences, seeing you on stage, and continuing to lead the charge. So thank you for making the time for this. And I certainly look forward to keeping in touch, Heidi. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you. I loved I loved the conversation. Thank you so much. And I hope your listeners will, you know, come and and uh and chat with us and visit us at efworldjourneys.com and uh to learn a little bit more. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Really hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Heidi Durflinger, the CEO of EF World Journeys USA. For more information about them, be sure to check out EF.com. And next week we're gonna continue looking at tour operators by introducing another deep dive, but this time we're gonna be focused on emerging tour operators. We have talked to some of the largest operators in the world. We also had our adventure series, which was led off by no one other than Shannon Stoll. I love Shannon. I'm thrilled to be here at the ATTA conference in Chile, and we'll be releasing that spotlight episode very soon. And I should also mention, for those of you who heard in my introduction, about the epic cycling trip I had the privilege to go on for the week before this conference.
SPEAKER_01:You can check out highlights on my Instagram at DC Trips. Next week, you're gonna hear from this absolutely exceptional entrepreneur, Nabila, who runs a company called And Get This, A Dose of Travel, because she was a pharmacist-turned travel industry entrepreneur that has launched a tour operator. She's based in New York, she's focused mainly on South Asia, and she was an ideal person to bring on to kick off this emerging tour operator series that's brought to us in partnership with our friends over at Tour Seta. That's T-O-U-R-S-E-T-A.com. If you want to get more information about them before we launch into that series next week.
SPEAKER_02:And also, don't forget we have our AI summit coming up in just two weeks. So make sure you're registered at Traveltrendspodcast.com to join us on October 28th and 29th. And of course, we post clips and highlights on all our social channels Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. Thanks again for joining us. Until next week, safe travels.
