Where Sustainable Travel Meets Impact Investing with Jonathan Coleman, CEO, UnTours

Imagine a travel company where the business itself fuels impact, not just through donations but through ownership. That is the UnTours story. In this episode, CEO Jonathan Coleman shares how the world’s first certified B Corp tour operator became part of a foundation that invests every dollar into small businesses creating meaningful change in destinations.

Jonathan walks us through Hal and Norma Taussig’s remarkable origin story, beginning with apartment-based, slow travel in the 1970s and evolving into a vow of poverty that redirected profits into a foundation, eventually transferring company ownership. We then explore the Reset Tourism Fund, which transforms corporate philanthropy from partners such as Expedia Group, TUI Care Foundation, Skyscanner, Tourism Cares, Agoda and XO into flexible, low-interest loans for small tourism enterprises. The results are tangible and people-centered, from Invisible Cities training individuals who experienced homelessness to become tour guides, to Greether creating safer experiences for solo women, to inclusive LGBTQ+ travel initiatives in Colombia that combine safety with cultural immersion.

The conversation also moves beyond offsets into the deeper work of sustainability. Jonathan explains why aligning all foundation assets with mission is essential, how consumer expectations are shifting as greenwashing becomes easier to spot, and why measurement must come before management. Listeners will come away with clear guidance on what to look for as travelers, including transparent certifications and local ownership, and what to prioritize as industry leaders, from supplier selection to risk-sharing models that build more equitable and climate-conscious tourism systems.

Tourism represents about 10% of global GDP, jobs, and emissions. Where our industry goes, the world follows. 

Thanks to Intrepid for sponsoring this series! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

We believe at the foundation, I believe personally, that the power of business to transform the world is immense. And we have we have to have government and we have to have philanthropy and nonprofits, but we also have to have business playing ball. We're going to solve problems.

Why Feature Untours And Jonathan

Introducing Jonathan Coleman

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hello everyone and welcome back to Travel Trends. This is your host, Dan Christian, and I'm thrilled to bring you part two of our three-part series on sustainability. Last week we kicked things off speaking to Shannon Geehan, the chief sustainability officer for the Travel Corporation, a longtime colleague and great friend of mine who actually inspired today's interview with Jonathan Coleman from Untours. As you would have heard, she highlighted the work that the Untours organization has done over the years and called out Jonathan specifically as a great example of leadership in this space. And given the fact that I had met Jonathan at the Adventure Travel World Summit in Panama last year and recorded a special highlight discussion in our event spotlight episode, I was profoundly interested to learn the backstory of Untours. And based on Shannon's recommendation, I was really keen to bring him back to specifically talk today about the Untours Foundation. And I think you'll quickly see how well it fits into this three-part series because next week we have Dr. Susan Eddy joining us, who is the global environmental impact manager over at Intrepid. And I just wanted to highlight that this series has been kindly sponsored by our friends over at Intrepid. And they have also stepped up to sponsor season seven and season eight of our podcast going into 2026. So thank you again to the team over at Intrepid for being such big supporters of the Travel Trends podcast and making sure that we can bring conversations like this to life so that our global listeners can learn more about the most important topics in travel, like sustainability, which I know is so core to their DNA and to their brand. So thank you again. And now today, this is where it also gets interesting. We're featuring other companies that are active in this space. And I just wanted to comment on that as well because it's very important to support the entire industry and every travel company that is active today marketing to travelers and to get them traveling in the right way, which you'll hear is exactly what has been built into Untours from the very beginning and all the incredible initiatives that have been underway at the Untours Foundation for over 20 years. It is a remarkable story. And so I want Jonathan to join us in a moment here to tell everyone about their organization and what they've been up to and what their plans are for 2026. But I just want to remind all of our listeners we do post clips and highlights on our social channels. So you can find those on LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. And for those of you who are listening to this live or the first week this comes out, I also just wanted to acknowledge that this is Christmas Eve, and I wanted to wish everyone a very happy holidays, a Merry Christmas. And however you're celebrating, I hope that you enjoy some downtime with your family and your loved ones and come back feeling fresh for 2026. I know our team is looking forward to the break, and I also know we have a huge year ahead in 2026. So I look forward to continuing many of these conversations and just wanted to acknowledge all of our listeners for your support throughout 2025. Now let's bring in Jonathan Coleman, the co-CEO of the Untours Foundation, to tell us all about their work in sustainability. Jonathan, great to have you back on Travel Trends. Thanks so much for joining us. Really happy to be here. Thanks for having me. For sure. It's terrific to have you back. Obviously, you were on, as people heard, the introduction there. You joined us on a special event spotlight episode at ATTA or ATWS in Panama last year. So we had a chance to meet there. And our listeners would have also heard that Shannon Gehan, our first guest on the sustainability series, mentioned you. And I said, I know Jonathan, and she was adamant you were such a great guest to have on this topic. And I totally agree. So this is the magic of the connections we both have in the industry, and it reminded me of our conversation. So I'm delighted you are available to join us for the sustainability series. So first of all, thank you for making the time. But also, I I really want our listeners that are coming to know you for the first time to understand a bit more about Untours before we get into the Untours Foundation, because obviously they're interlinked. But yeah, first of all, Jonathan, tell us a little bit about your role and give us a brief overview of Untours.

The Untours Origin Story

From Profits To Foundation Ownership

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Sure. So, well, first of all, uh very nice of Shannon to speak to speak kindly of me. Um I I hope that I will live up to the uh the expectations that that you and Shannon have. Um but happy to be here and and share share what I have and a bit of our our background and our unique model at Untours and the Untours Foundation. So the the background on Untours uh links uniquely and interestingly to the foundation, but Untours the Travel Company came first. It was started 50 years ago, actually, this year, so we're in our 50-year anniversary, uh, by a man named Hal Tausig, who was uh a really uh amazing human who viewed business and viewed travel differently uh than people of his era. Um certainly, and and even uh kind of into this era, it was just well ahead of his time and how he how he how he thought business should interact with society and how tourism and travel could interact with society and make it better. So he set up untours with the concept sustain of sustainability and slower travel back in the 70s, again, like before this was a thing uh that people were really talking about in the industry, and also set up untours basically uh with a model of using uh homes and apartments as as lodging, again, in the 70s and 80s, so before the Airbnb guys were born, uh Untours was sending Americans to Europe, staying in in apartments primarily uh throughout the continent. So um it's just again well ahead of his time in how he in how he thought about a lot of things. So he built this company which was basically helping people travel in a in a slower way, more culturally immersive way, um, and with these kind of unique travel packages, which are fully supported independent travel, is the way we like to state it. So a little bit for industry folks, a little bit between FIT and kind of said itineraries, it's some kind of merger of the two where the big pieces are taken care of, and there's a lot of space for um for independence and independent decision making on the day-to-day basis. And that model holds firm from the 70s and 80s up to today. But as the the company started to gain some footing and started to make some money, around that same time, Hal also, in his own personal journey, took a vow of poverty, committed to having no money, and uh he lived that fully. He donated his car to a hitchhiker one day and he never drove again. He um rode his bike, you know, around town or to in every situation. He uh and and he committed to not taking any of the profits of untours travel, and that was back in the early 90s, and so he set up the foundation to to take on the profits of of the company. So that's how the two have interacted um since that time until more recently when Hal died, he was in his in his mid-90s when he passed away. Uh, this is about eight years ago now. And when he died, he basically transferred ownership of the travel company to the foundation. And so now we have a very unique model where we have a nonprofit foundation that fully owns the for-profit B Corp travel company. Um, I should name one other important piece of uh information in the journey is that how and Untours, because it was unique in what they were doing with the profits, but also how they were operating, uh, caught the eye of the folks who founded the B Corp movement as they were framing out what a certified B Corporation would be and what the whole B Corp world would be. And how became one of their mentors uh to the founders of of B Corps. And Untours was one of the examples they were looking towards as they created the framework for what would become B Corps. Uh and actually Untours went on to become the world's first ever certified B Corp. So that's our claim to fame, is that we're the first company in the world uh of all industries to go through that certification process and become certified. So that happened back in 2007, I believe. Um, so that that community is obviously an important part of our world as well uh as a company.

Untours And The Birth Of B Corp

SPEAKER_02 8:27

The reason I wanted to give our audience that background, because there's a number of things that you mentioned there, I just wanted to uh underline a couple of them. Um I certainly didn't have an appreciation of Untours being the first uh B-Corp. That was really truly fascinating. I didn't understand when we uh first met, and I'm sure that's why it's interesting for all of our listeners, um, that Untours, how long the company's been around and how much that was part of the core ethos of the business and the founder from the very beginning. Of course, I worked at G Adventures, as most of our listeners know. Intrepid is a sponsor of this series. You know, they're very committed uh as well to sustainability for many of the right reasons. And we actually have one of their experts joining us on our next episode. And I was actually delighted that Intrepid was also keen for you to join because technically uh Untours and Intrepid are competitors in the marketplace. But the spirit of sustainability and this approach uh is that everyone wants the best outcome for our planet and also to invite more people into this category. So even though you may be not direct competitors, there but likely is some overlap. But I just think it's interesting, you know, that even in Intrepid sponsoring this series, I was very keen to have Shannon. She, of course, worked with the Travel Corporation, you work with Untours. Um, so I just wanted to give that context because people who are in industry can have the biggest impact in the decisions they're making about how their companies are run. And the one thing that stood out to me about your background, another reason I really wanted to have you as part of this, uh, once Shannon mentioned it, I was like, of course, because you started at the Untours Foundation before you took over as CEO at Untours and you serve in Capose Compati. So uh I want to spend our time today speaking about the Untours Foundation, but there's obviously no way to be able to start having that conversation without explaining Untours. So I uh add a few more details because again, it's a it's a fascinating story about the founder and Untours and how the foundation was created.

Size, Values, And Hal’s Ethos

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Sure. Um yeah, I so I think you mentioned Intrepid, you mentioned G Adventures or TTC. Uh and I think maybe the main difference would be that Untours as a company never scaled. So it was it was a successful small business. It is still a small business. We're not huge. Uh we uh I would say our kind of historical relevance outweighs the actual size of the company. Um and and that's okay. And you know, we're looking and and have very clear goals to to continue to grow the company and reach some level of of larger scale in both size and impact. Um but we're like when we talk about the intrepids of the G's of the world, we are we are in a different universe as far as size. But as far as values, you know, very much aligned. So just kind of to to make that point. And just a few other I think touch points I I think are interesting to mention. Um another story about how he back in the early 2000s won an award given by JFK Jr. back when he was still with us uh on this earth and um Paul Newman for the most generous businessman in America. Or the most generous business in America, I guess is what it was, competing against some major corporations, like large corporations were there. And so the the story of this event is they were they were having the award ceremony in the Waldorf Astoria, I think it was that hotel, you know, five-star hotel, very fancy uh room where they're having this this this dinner, this award ceremony. And Hal was notorious for never staying at the hotels of events that he went to because he didn't think that uh he wanted to spend that kind of money. Uh so he would always stay at a hostel and then rent a bike and ride his bike to the event. So this is what he did when he was there at an event with corporate luminaries of the day and some of the most famous people in the world who were there giving him an award, or he was a finalist for the award. And so he's sitting at a table with JFK Jr. who who learned that he wasn't staying at the hotel, at the five-star hotel where the event was being held. And he and JFK Jr. said to him, I'm so sorry, my I my people should have sorted this out for you. Please, like, we'll we'll get you a room here tonight, no worries at all. And Hal told him, Nope, that's totally okay. Uh when every person in New York City has a warm place to sleep, then I'll come stay with you here at this hotel. Until then, I'm happy at the hostel down the street. So, um, I mean, how many of us would have turned down that offer, you know, to stay at the nicest hotel in town, but instead go sleep uh, you know, at a hostel? And that's just some of more of the ethos of uh of how Hal viewed life, which was and and his role within it, which is just different and and special, different than a lot of people. And so we do our best to maintain that ethos into how we operate both the foundation and and the company today. So, yeah, that's just another interesting point of uh of the journey uh and of this the story of Hal uh and why he was so inspiring to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah, it's a really cool story, and I guess that's where you know certainly most people wouldn't, but you know, like at the Mother Teresa type the character and personality, and someone and someone who's also very much ahead of their time if we look at the way travelers are responding, and this again, why we want to focus on sustainability. We did one episode in our second season, and it was one of the most popular episodes ever. And I always have a conversation with each of our guests about sustainability. It's important to me, it should be important to everyone. Um, but it's a topic that, as I discussed with Shannon, there's so many different terms that get thrown around with sustainability. Um, but you know, someone like him being a visionary and ahead of his time, much more like an Eve Schwinard who runs Patagonia, this idea that you're gonna reinvest all the profits, but then actually, you know, give the company ultimately back to uh and all the um the money that's generated goes back to you know protecting land and national parks, creating national parks. And you know, it's it it's extraordinary to see how people with money, like the the impact they can have. So so let's get let's get into that. So now that you know uh people know what Untours is and and how long you guys have been around and what you guys do, uh the Untours Foundation. So walk us through, especially given you've been there running that now for five years, um, when it started, what its overall mission is, um, and then obviously I want to get into some of the projects you work on. You've got some really amazing partners. So you highlight, yes, although you're a smaller business, you punch above your weight in impact, which is why we wanted to have you as part of this discussion, because I think many of the things that you're doing are certainly leading by example, and others are following suit. So, yes, give everyone now a more of a detailed overview of the Untours Foundation because you guys do mu more than just tourism as well.

Mission Of The Untours Foundation

Moving Endowments From Wall Street To Impact

SPEAKER_01 14:56

So yeah, of course. I'm I'm very happy to go into that. And so, yeah, the the Untourus Foundation founded by Hal uh back in 1993, uh and with the mission of to unleash capital and radical kindness to nurture ideas and build healthy, sustainable communities. So that's like you know, mission mission statement jargon. But basically what that means is we weren't set up as a traditional foundation uh to be a grant-making institution. Um most foundations are set up where there's an endowment, so there's this pool of money that is put over an endowment, and that endowment lives in traditional investments, stocks, bonds, private equity, whatever. And by law in the US, it's laws are slightly different everywhere, but they look pretty similar across the Western world. But in the US, the law is five percent of the foundation's assets need to be allocated to its mission each year. That's what's that's what foundations use to pay the pay their staff and make grants typically to nonprofits who are doing work that's aligned with their mission. So Howe kind of saw that model and thought it was crazy. Wait, I'm gonna put all this money into the foundation, but I'm only gonna use 95% of it to actually achieve the mission that I want to see happen. And the other 95% is just earning money, which helps me later achieve the mission, but but in and of itself is not actually doing anything to accomplish the mission. And depending on which companies it's invested in, it's quite likely having a direct opposite impact of what the mission of the foundation is, which is to drive sustainability, which is to drive community impact, to drive livelihoods through business. And so, for example, foundations across the world have this the the the paradigm with which foundations have worked over the last hundred years is that that the people who are making decisions, the decisions on how they have impact are not the same ones on how they on how who are making decisions on how their endowment is used, and the people who are managing their endowment are only trying to make money, and the people who are managing their impact are trying to have an impact, but but those making the money might be doing it doing so in a way that is that is contradictory to the to the mission of the foundation. So as an example, you may have an environmental focus of your foundation and you may be earning the money that's granting to environmental organizations uh through owning fossil fuel companies. Um or you may have a mission on you know uh racial justice in here in the US, but you may actually own a piece of private prisons, which are a perpetuator of racial injustice in in the country. And so there's this disconnect, which is totally didn't make sense to how. And so he set up the foundation in a really unique way, and in a way that is uh again well ahead of its time, to have 100% of that endowment directly invested into businesses that advance the mission of the foundation. And that became the mission of the foundation. So instead of having an endowment here and grant making here, those are merged together, and basically the money that came into the foundation from on tours and eventually from other funding partners and donors, uh are basically become a revolving impact investment fund, or in foundation speak, they would say mission-aligned investing fund. And basically that means all the money that's there is being invested, typically through low-interest loans, into social enterprises and impact-focused businesses that are that are aiming to do more to be to be better for their local communities, to be better for the environment, or just to scale up, and they need the capital to grow, and so the foundation provides that capital again, typically in the form of a low-interest loan. We've been doing that for 30 years. Very unique. As far as we know, we're the first foundation in the US to have 100% of our assets aligned with our mission. Which uh it's pretty cool. The most advanced, there are some foundations now that do this. The biggest foundations out there that you may know of, maybe they allocate 5% of their endowments to their to their mission or 10% of their endowments to their mission. The rest of it is just in traditional stocks and bonds, even today, totally disconnected from the mission of the foundation. So uh, you know, we are proud that we were an early forebearer to this movement of more closely aligning the assets of foundations to to their missions. And I'll I'll make one final point on that. There's over a trillion dollars in foundation assets and foundation endowments in the US alone. So this is real money that is totally on the sidelines for impact. And is there, it's making money, but it's not it's not making money in a way that it is necessarily aligned with the mission and it's not helping to achieve the mission of these foundations. So we see it, we see part of our role as being a forebearer to that movement and in the realization that it's in the foundation space, is to be an example for other foundations to follow, to allocate more of those assets that we have to the missions that we have so that we see more good stuff happen more quickly.

Three Pillars And Measurable Results

Creating The Reset Tourism Fund

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah. And that's the part. So just to recap, too, for our our audience, and this is where as I was wrapping my head around the Untours business, the Untours Foundation, and then looking at the impact you have on other organizations, that ultimately is kind of like the three key pillars. You've highlighted them there. That you own and operate Untours Travel, which is the world's first certified B Corp. And it's very much focused on community-based travel, primarily in Europe, which is, you know, when we look at We Road and look at some of the companies today, as you talk about some companies that are scaling rapidly in this space or have scaled substantially in this space. So there's a core real business there. But then you take 100%, not 95%. So and obviously, as people are having this conversation, I mentioned at the beginning in the introduction, but untoursfoundation.org, if you want to kind of follow along as we're having this conversation, because I want to take this opportunity today, Jonathan, with a conversation with you to inspire more travel companies globally to consider their commitment to the planet, to the environment, to the communities they serve. I know it's top of mind for most organizations, but at the same time, you're trying to run a business, generate a profit, and also pay salaries for your team. And so there's many competing priorities, which is why the concept of people, planet, profit. So you have to run, in most instances, a profitable business to be able to even engage in being able to donate. But yeah, those are the three key pillars. And one other thing I just wanted to highlight too for our listeners that I found fascinating because I was reading your 2024 impact report, and this relates to the numbers you were sharing, because uh when we think about this foundation being created in 1992, uh my understanding is that you guys have uh invested more than 10 million dollars uh uh during that time uh across more than 400 businesses worldwide. And in 2024 specifically, uh you uh invested$600,000 across 23 different businesses. And so as you say, I mean,$10 million is a still a very meaningful amount of money, even over that time. The fact that you guys are putting$600,000, but and the fact that it's you know 100%, you guys are very focused on being lean and committing your entire endowment um um to having impact investing, which is something I want to uh dive a bit more into. Um but just to finish on that last point you were sharing with everybody is that a lot of organizations who are much larger and even you know far more profitable are looking to you and Untour's Foundation for guidance on how they can do good in the world. Um so take take us a little bit through that part right now because you know people are looking at your website, they can see the number of partners you work with. So I think that's where even your impact there is much greater than just the amount you're investing each year.

Corporate Partnerships And Fund Design

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Sure, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. And I think there's a few key points of of leverage that we have that we're trying to use to have an outsized impact beyond what our kind of size is. One is back to this whole idea of how foundations work. Um, so because we have an interesting model uh that others can look to, and we've actually dedicated some a lot of our energy to helping other foundations go on that journey, we've helped to move over$500 million of foundation endowments into Impact. So we're we have a few million dollars of assets ourselves, but we've helped to move over$5 million, something we're really proud of. All of this totally disconnected from the tourism space. Um but within tourism, we we recognized a few years ago a few key points that uh one, we we run a travel company, but our foundation efforts haven't been connected to tourism historically. We thought that maybe we could remedy that. Um we know a thing or two. Uh maybe we should use that knowledge to actually uh align with some of our foundation work. Uh two, uh small businesses, which are our core focus area, represent 80% of the businesses in the tourism industry. And uh meaning they're uh an incredibly powerful lever of impact within the industry. Um and to a certain extent, you know, where small businesses go, uh, the industry goes. And we we as an industry need small businesses who are at the front lines of fighting climate change and uh ensuring that the industry is is a positive uh asset to a local community, to a host destination. Those small businesses are at those front lines, and uh and they don't receive the resources they need to uh to be better, both to be to be better for their local communities, better for the environment, and also just better as businesses. Um businesses need capital to invest into uh into projects and infrastructure that that are needed to be better, um, and that capital just doesn't exist for small businesses, specifically in tourism. So we wanted to solve that problem and fill that gap. But we acknowledged we don't have enough money to to fill the gap. We're we're too small. And so from the beginning, we we wanted to solve that problem, but we we needed to set up a tool to solve the problem that that could be bigger than just us, and it could connect more broadly within in the industry. So we set up about three years ago now the Reset Tourism Fund again with this explicit purpose to provide flexible and affordable capital to small and growing businesses in the tourism industry to help them scale up their impact and sustainability efforts and to just scale their business overall, uh, and to be kind of the primary source of this type of flexible and affordable capital within this space. And and we set it up so that other much larger corporate partners can join the efforts. And so you mentioned some of the partners that you saw on the website. You know, we we launched the first two partners were uh the TUI Care Foundation, the foundation of TUI and uh Expedia Group. So obviously two massive companies uh who um have huge scale, and but that scale allows them to have uh a philanthropic arm and be able to do some philanthropy. And so we were able to basically turn that philanthropy, that corporate philanthropy philanthropy from the industry and turn it into this revolving impact loan fund. And and so that allows our partners, our corporate partners to have direct impact to small businesses on the ground who are doing the work, but have this kind of intermediary in the middle who's who's translating their those that philanthropy that comes in into this into loans. We know how to run a loan program, we know how to do the due diligence and do the underwriting and all this stuff, get repaid, make sure that the money comes back. All of that is our kind of core competency. And and you know, the but we're able to be that conduit to to the stuff that's happening on the ground with the with this fund. And the goal is that we're able to scale it up kind of to a much larger level to drive more and more resources again on the ground at the ground level, and not focusing only on the NGOs or nonprofits who are doing the important work. They need the money, certainly, but also on the SMEs of the small businesses who have to be a part of the equation if we're going to solve real problems. So that's the goal of the Reset Tourism Fund. And we've been able to work, expand our our partnership base beyond Expedient Tui to uh a number of others in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Well, I noticed that as well. So one of the things, obviously, just to h highlight there, because this is what stood out to me, is that funds more than doubled in the past year, but and it's because of these new partners like Skyscanner, Tourism Cares, uh, Agoda, XO. Um so it's really interesting to see the companies that are partnering with you and um and the collaborations.

How SMEs Apply And Get Funded

SPEAKER_00 27:04

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Terms, Due Diligence, And Radical Kindness

SPEAKER_02 28:21

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Funding Sources And Donations

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, yeah. So interesting that you mentioned Leslie. Maybe a slightly different relationship with her. Leslie actually works with us. Uh so she manages some of our marketing and our design. And so um uh we we feel the exact same way that you do about her, though I should acknowledge that she wasn't a recipient of our of our of the Reset Tourism Fund, she's you know, uh works for us as a as a contractor. Um but I can name several other examples. But to answer your question, uh as far as how do how does one get involved, how does a business that needs some funding, has has a big ambition to to improve or to scale up and needs some money to do so, how do they get involved? Um first off, from our perspective, we're receiving funding from different corporate partners who have different goals. Maybe it's geographic areas they want to focus on, maybe it's impact areas they want to focus on. And so we have to align our decisions based on those those preferences of the funding partners. So which means that sometimes we we have an applicant into our to the reset tourism fund that is absolutely amazing, but they just don't align with one of the funding buckets that we're managing at the time. Uh but to maybe just to give an example, Expedia Group has been our largest funder to date over multiple years, and uh they have they have had a focus on inclusive travel. So they want to support companies that are serving underserved travelers. And so our job has been to go out and source those companies to find them and uh to find those that are ready to to scale up and to do more and to and to take on capital, and then we can provide the capital. And so that's been not geographic focused at all, but very much on this impact focus of companies that serve travelers with disabilities, companies that serve solo female travelers, or travelers of color, or LGBTQ plus travelers, uh, those companies we are we are finding, or some of them are finding us, they're filling their completing application. We move into like a due diligence process with them, and many of those we've gone on to fund with the support of Expedia. So uh the decision-making process essentially looks like that. We have this these priorities from our partners, we put the word out into the world, hey, there's this this funding is available in this place or these places or along these these funding lines, these impact areas, and uh we you know we see who's interested. And but in the process from the small business side is to complete an application, which is on our website. And uh for those that we think are a good fit, we move to an introductory screening, uh, which is basically a half hour. You mentioned Daniel Quintana, it's usually with Daniel, who's having the introductory call. Uh, and then for those that continue to feel like we feel like they're a good fit, we move them into full due diligence where we are uh doing the same type of work that any investor or any lender would do, but we're overlaying that with a lens towards impact. Uh a very um intentional and extreme lens towards it towards impact. So uh that is we are we don't and won't make loans or investments to companies that aren't you know values aligned. Um but they also have to be good businesses, and they and they have to be able to pay us back, or our model doesn't work. So we're providing very flexible capital, the terms are quite flexible, the interest rates are very low, we're talking like a 5% average interest rate for an unsecured business loan anywhere in the world, that's really good, and especially in kind of the developing world, that's uh you know unheard of. So we're we are very, very uh friendly investors, both from a financial perspective and from how we operate. Um part of our mission, I mentioned, is unleashing capital with radical kindness, and so that is how we that's how we do business. But um but the we we also need to ensure that that that these are solid businesses with a solid business model that ensures that we can get paid back so that we can recycle that money and put it to work again to the next small business who wants to do amazing things. So um yeah, that due diligence process looks very much like a bank would do or a traditional investor, but is just with a different lens uh and with a different like risk return profile, is how we would say in the investing world.

What Impact Looks Like On The Ground

SPEAKER_02 35:53

For sure. And I mean obviously as people look at on the ontourist foundation.org, the uh apply for investment, there's obviously, as you highlighted, the reset tourism fund, there's the shifting the paradigm fund, um, and people can get the information they need there in terms of you know the types of categories you invest in, whether it's hotels or tours, restaurants, museums, um, and aligning, of course, with your guiding principles. Um, and certainly uh that's that's going to be an important consideration for a lot of our listeners. So definitely check that out afterwards. There's so many great people that either you're connected to, and so they're obviously people are drawn to Untours Foundation as well, which is clearly why um Leslie's keen uh to work with you guys. But nevertheless, just talk about the business side. So the other element that is also interesting for me, but given my background of both G Adventures and the Travel Corporation, one of the things that uh neither of those organizations did, at least from travelers, is was actually allow them to donate. And so there's one thing, there's a totally different side of it, um, which is how you actually raise those funds. So take us a little bit about through the donations, because obviously, yes, you work with corporate partners, um, but if there's someone that is looking to give a donation, of course, this is airing in season six, so some people are going to be listening to this just before Christmas. So this is certainly the giving time of the year. And so um, I thought I'd just highlight that as well for uh for those of you in in in the spirit or going into the new year feeling uh feeling generous. Um take us a little bit through the donation side of it. Sure.

Ecosystem Plays And Women’s Leadership

Inclusive Travel: Safety And Access

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Uh right. So we have a few different sources of funding for the foundation. Uh to be totally transparent, right now Untours, the company, is not a source of funding for the foundation. Uh it was went through when after Hal passed, went through a bit of a some challenges as a business, as often does in transition, and then COVID hit, and then now we're we're rebuilding. Uh and so all kind of resources coming through the the travel company itself are staying in there to rebuild. Uh but the foundation's efforts are are like are well beyond that and aren't reliant on that and have become non-reliant on the travel company. And so the sources of funding that come in, we do have the travel company has been around for 50 years, so there's a lot of of customers of the company over the years who have become funders. And so this is uh not the not the bulk of our funding, but an important supplement of funding comes from the travelers themselves, who are who are we call them untourists, who who travel with our company and then you know donate usually smaller dollar amounts, uh$1,500,$200 to the to the foundation. But um amongst those are some larger individual funders who have the capacity to give quite a bit more and who do. And so that that's like on the individual level, um, connected with the company. We also have now very welcome, very open to receiving funding from other individuals who just believe in what we're doing. And so uh to be honest, that hasn't we as a foundation haven't done a great job of of appealing to a broader mass audience. We have, we think, a very compelling and important role to play and important impact that we are achieving. Uh, but but we could and should do more to uh to let the general audience out there in the world know that this is a possibility, like we are doing this good work, and you should come and join us. Um so I thank you for mentioning it because we we we would love those uh those contributions and it just helps us enhance our work. But of course, the other key part of our of our growth in the last couple of years has been aligning with corporations specifically within the travel industry. Um so that's allowing us to put money into the fund, which is which then goes out as as loans and recycles in that way. And we carve out some of that to help pay our bills to pay our staff to go do the work. Um so uh our I guess the other maybe source of funding is really the interest rate that we charge on our on our loans. But those the interest rate of five percent is really pegged to kind of cover our losses. We're not trying to make money on on that. Uh we're we know that some. These loans won't come back, and so we we estimated over time that will be about five percent. So that's where we put the interest rate. But otherwise, you know, we're we're paying our day-to-day costs through through other donations or or as a percentage of the large corporate donations.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

That's helpful context. So, like you know, the other thing is like in terms of you know talking about donations, talking about some of the organizations and how they could um engage with you, but let's talk about the projects that you are making a difference in, because obviously that's that's ultimately the measure of success, as we both know. So let talk us through a few of the projects that you guys have funded that you've been involved in over the years and the impact that they've had on their communities or um on those organizations.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Right. So now we've made over 50 investments out of the Reset Tourism Fund in the last couple of years, of over$1.5 million invested specifically in out of the Reset Tourism Fund. Um and a few examples. Uh so just at the beginning of last year, we invested in an amazing company in Scotland, founded in Edinburgh, but now expanding throughout the UK, called Invisible Cities. And Invisible Cities works with uh people who have experienced homelessness and trains them to be tour guides in their own cities, and then hires them as guides and and does the marketing to sell their tours to to individuals and and and corporations and DMCs and and all of that. So uh they're they are really interesting because they're solving a very important community problem and using tourism as the tool to solve the problem. So we have homelessness crisis, homelessness challenges in communities around the world. Um and it's kind of offering a offering a job is oftentimes not enough. There's a lot of training, there's a lot of social work and s and other components of of of needs that these individuals have to allow them to succeed in a work environment. And so Invisible Cities is able to provide that themselves and working with partners, but also provide the job and also link it in with uh with the industry overall so that they're there's business there. There are clients coming and they're therefore paying the bills. So Invisible Cities is is an amazing example of how tourism can solve real problems in a local community if it's done in an intentional way.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

I was just gonna say one of the other ones that stood out to me from 2025, and this is um uh Iris, who runs women's work. And I have a great respect for for her and what she's doing, and I've seen her at a number of conferences this year, and I certainly you guys also contributed to them. They were 2025. So t tell tell us about them, for example, and why you selected women's work and what impact you've had in that regard.

Defining Sustainability Beyond Carbon

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, yeah, happy to talk about that as well. Maybe that's a slightly different context than our typical investment, because typically we're investing in companies that are actual travel companies on the ground doing work, but sometimes we invest in the next level up. And so uh women's work is is empowering travel companies through these through through trainings and uh accelerators and incubators and these kind of things. Um and so we we love the work that that Iris is doing through women's work. We see the power in it and the importance of it, and so we're very happy to come alongside and help to fund some of that. Um so yeah, that's uh just an interesting other type of business that we're that we wanted to get involved in because it's more an ecosystem-level play as opposed to an individual business in an individual place. Um, but a very cool example of how, again, how how tourism has the power to achieve real change. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

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Consumer Trends And Greenwashing Pressure

SPEAKER_02 45:55

One more I have to call out, only because you guys were very early on this one, too, is Greet Her. You guys um got involved with them in 2023, and she Vanessa's had such an amazing year this year, and that's like um, and I've I've actually mentioned her on the stage a couple of times when I was at the Focus Right conference recently. I was doing a panel on how people get welcomed at airports. It was sponsored by a company called Welcome Pickups, and we were just talking about the arrival experience. And I used Greet Her as a great example of an organization that is you know focused on having your bestian destination and for solo female travelers, which um so that's another one that you guys were, I say, would onto early, I guess, in the grand scheme of things. But um, and again and similar to women's work with the idea of like you know, solo female uh and and empowering female leaders and also female travelers.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah, women's work also love that business. I mean, we I love all of these businesses, but uh you pick some good ones. Um greet her right exists to basically four female travelers, kind of targeted solo female travelers, to have someone, uh a friendly face, another female to welcome you in a new place and act as like you know a best friend for a little while and to show you around and uh help have a unique experience, kind of behind the scenes experience, real, true local experience in a place as a as a female traveler, which is harder to do as female travelers. Uh so yeah, we you know they actually came through uh an accelerator with Expedia a few years ago. Uh all focus on inclusive travel. And then that funding that flowed through to Greet Her actually, the source of that funding was the Expedia group as well. So that's kind of the funder connection there. Um, but yeah, we were able to be an early investor into Greether. And I'm proud to say that I I was the first male to be to be greeted, to actually use the to be allowed to use the the uh the the business and to use the resource. So I was I had like a you know half a day in Nistanville this past spring. And I wrote Vanessa and said, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna be there. I'd love to try the product, and you know, try it out and see how it is. And she said, We can make an exception for you. So um, yeah, and it was amazing, like just as an experience, just as a traveler, uh such an incredible way to experience a place. Um and uh even more so, regardless of like gender or background or the anything like that, it's just a good product. But then knowing that like the the value is there to make it easier for female travelers to travel without that uh the the reality of the the fear that can come from from the reality of traveling while while female and and so uh both the impact is amazing and the product itself is amazing, and that is the best scenario um that uh that we're looking for. Yeah.

Beyond Offsets: Broader Impact Models

SPEAKER_02 48:45

And the other one I want to call out, I've just got one more, but I know there's uh but the one other one that stood out to me that I found really fascinating was out in Columbia. And um it's you know, it's BIPOC owned, but it's also one of the the reason it stood out to me is because it's one of the things that we overlook or often overlook in the industry um is when we're looking at and specifically um uh LGBTQ plus travelers. And I've had uh my good friend Danny Guerrero on this podcast talking about he's based in LA, he's a big advocate for uh both diversity and inclusion, and he's um um he's Latino and he's a gay man, and he's like he he's taught me so much about how to be able to market uh to the gay community specifically, like that, you know, it's one you know, uh male couples are typically affluent, you know, when you look at like river cruises, and it's like, you know, see you it's one of the things when you put a brochure together and you put images together, you know, um it's difficult to try and uh speak to everyone and try to make sure that everyone feels welcome, even if it's not intentional that you're trying to exclude someone. But um, he really helped me understand uh the messaging, the imagery, and and again, that's important as a travel marketer because it was not something you were intentionally excluding, but you actually need to be intentional about including and incorporating and being conscientious of that. So this is one of the ones that stood out to me. I know Treadwright Foundation is involved in them as well, which obviously connects to the conversation I had uh last week with Shannon, interestingly enough. But and I don't know anything about them other than what I've learned from reading your website and preparing for our conversation. But it just uh I'm a big advocate for travel to Colombia, but there's certain destinations that where gay travelers don't feel safe. And um, and and that's something again that stands out when destinations have to figure out how best to to market and um and to make sure that people feel welcome and included. So tell us a little bit about that, if you wouldn't mind. Just share a little bit more details about that initiative and how you guys work together.

2026 Goals: Scale The Revolving Fund

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Yeah, I mean, it's the it's the same story repeated over different scenarios of both as a society, we have a lot of work to do, a global society, we have a lot of work to do to be uh inclusive and and accessible and safe for for folks of all backgrounds and uh all perspectives, and that so I mentioned um greet her, we talked about them, and then you know Alan Columbia is a different people group, but the same challenge of there's we as an industry and a society a society more broadly, we we need to be more open and be be more accommodating to these needs and to their the the different realities of of different people groups, and and also these are massive business opportunities. So you kind of made made that point that uh the LGBTQ plus community can travel, wants to travel, they want to travel to places that maybe it's not it's not as safe for them, and they need some help, therefore, and it's it's harder to do it independently. And this is Alton Columbia is a good example of a company that that makes that easier and safer and more comfortable for for gay travelers uh to experience an amazing place that they they should be able to experience without the help, to be honest. But this is the reality of our of our time, and so uh there's this uh the fact that there's a company there to to to allow them to to have this experience which which they deserve to be able to have, is uh you know is aligned with very much with our values and what we're trying to accomplish. But again, it's a business opportunity there too. And so these are the we we believe at the foundation, I believe personally, that the power of business to transform the world is is immense. And we have we have to have government and we have to have philanthropy and nonprofits, but we also have to have business playing ball if we're going to solve problems. And so when you see problems that problems that can be solved in a way that is also that has a business model that makes sense and is profitable and is scalable, these are like we just need that a thousand times more in our industry and and others. And so these are just great examples of those.

Practical Advice For Travelers

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Well, and to bring it back to the theme of the series, which is obviously sustainability, and all of this ties together. I mean, depending on how you, you know, what terms you want to use and how you define them. Uh and again, that was an interesting conversation to kick off with um Shannon because whether it's green, eco, uh, sustainable, regenerative, um, all of these different terms that are utilized that are difficult for people to understand, because I mean and myself included, for many, many travelers, we think about you know, the obvious things about being green and lessening our impact and um you know the how in the hotels, the towels that we use, and like water running, those kind of things that like and even the UNWTO that I uh also briefly asked Shannon about, like, you know, it's complex to understand all the different ways you can um have your impact. And it's almost like you need to find your pin and you find something that you kind of latch on to, whether it's planting trees or it's like something you uh uh carbon offsets is obvious, like what is what are you gonna do um to make the world a better place or to make it more sustainable? And we all have different things we gravitate to given our history, our backgrounds, and what's meaningful. So the women stand out for me because I was raised by a single mom. So I always advocate um for women in the workplace. That's something that's been um uh very important to me for a long time. And so when I when I see Iris or I, you know, see an example like Greet Her, I'm just so excited for those projects and initiatives because it's only a generation ago that my mom didn't get to go to university because her brother, who was the boy, he was given the opportunity and she wasn't. And sadly, he passed away and she ended up a single mom, and she could have really benefited from that. And this is kind of like that's a you know, that's that's one generation. Like it's like um these things are not. So, as you mentioned, these are the times we live in, and there's still lots of inequity, there's lots of challenges. Um, but to tie it back to sustainability and the concept of this series, uh, how best to do that from your point of view? Because I was reading one of your blog posts from earlier this year, I guess it would have been in February, about some all the uh about the changing world and all of the updates at ontours. And I find it really, I found it interesting, I found it inspiring. Um for me, I was trying to figure out how best to tie our conversation to this idea of, you know, unleash capital and radical kindness to nurture ideas and build healthy, sustainable communities. So tell take us a little bit through how you and the team view sustainability and all this work that you're doing, how that ties to the overall concept of sustainability.

Practical Advice For Industry Leaders

How To Connect And Final Reflections

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned there's there's just uh way too many words that one needs to understand uh or try to get their head around to understand what's what can be done or is being done uh around this concept of sustainability or impact. Um I would say this, you know, as humans and as businesses we there are negative outcomes of our existence, right? Um we produce trash, you know, in our homes. We in the travel industry, we fly most places if we're doing international travel, we are flying. Um and and the the emissions that come from that and the negative impacts that come from that. We have to own that. And I think and and find ways to I I don't want to use the word offset because I think that has a very specific connotation, but maybe there's not a better word, but to to try to equal out that impact, you know, that we're having. That there are this is a reality of negative impacts uh that come, but they uh but as as individuals and as businesses we can and should try to balance those out. What happens in industry, what happens in capitalism, is that we're able to externalize those negative impacts to pass those on to someone else. And so we we can produce, you know, when we're talking environmentally or otherwise, produce negative outputs that come, which are sometimes unavoidable, but uh we externalize those, those, the the cost of those impacts on someone else. And so I think it's our role to to accept that we have the negative impacts and then work to to to equal things out, to to ensure that our that our our impact is more net positive than than negative. Again, as individuals and as institutions or businesses or or nonprofits. Um what what we believe we believe in the the more broad understanding of sustainability, which is not which is inclusive of environments and climate and all of these things, but it's also inclusive of other things which make our planet sustainable for the people within it. That's about good jobs, that's about equitable access to opportunity, that's about you know, any number of these more social issues where they would be defined as social issues. And for us, sustainability is all of those things because our world, for our world to be sustainable, we need people's lives to be sustainable. We need individual humans and individual homes to have what they need to survive and to do so in a way that doesn't further damage the actual environment of the earth or people within the earth. So uh our narrow role within that for the Untours Foundation is about flexible and affordable capital for smaller businesses. We can't solve all the problems. So we've chosen to define our role around this one core competency that this is not enough of out there in the world, which is how to deploy capital around the world to small businesses. That's not easy. There's a lot of challenges with that, within that, and it's a pretty narrow remit. Our our impact focus, therefore, is quite broad. It can be around environmental sustainability, it can be around social equity, it can be around any number of other issues. Uh but the tool is supporting businesses through through impact-focused investment or flexible, affordable capital. And and that's the that's our niche, and that's where we're where we want to be. Um I think every individual and every institution needs to find their role. And and it doesn't have to be, okay, well, we produce this many emissions, so this we plant this many trees to offset it. That is a way, that is something, and it's an important piece of the puzzle. But it uh it can be more creative than that, I think, and and and deeper than that, but it has to begin with an acknowledgement of the problem, or or the acknowledgement of not even the problem, the reality, which is the negative externalities of our of our of our existence as a as a company, and then to move towards finding ways to to counteract those with positivity.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

It's really interesting to get your take on that side of sustainability, and it it it just highlights just how uh complex it is to try and get the messaging right. But ultimately, I think it's one of those things if your heart's in the right place and you're looking to Have a positive impact. It's clear that Untours, the organization and the foundation are committed to that, the number of projects you're involved in. And so one of the things I also wanted to get your take on, too, is where the industry is headed with regards to sustainability. So as you kind of give us an overview of how you guys view sustainability, when we take a wider look at the industry at large in 2026 and beyond, what are some of the emerging trends you're seeing in sustainable travel that will change how change traveler expectations or industry practices? What are some of the things, given all those projects you're working on and how you guys view sustainability, what would be sort of your, I guess, guidance and advice to those people that are looking to understand this space? But specifically, let's talk about the trends, and then I want to get some practical advice too for you for travelers and the industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Yeah, you know, sustainability has been on an interesting journey over the last number of years within the tourism industry. And I'll say, you know, I'm not a tourism guy, and yeah, I wasn't until I was. You know, I wasn't I didn't grow up in this industry. Uh I grew up more in the the side of the foundation side of our work, where making the investments and doing the creative capital. So that's been more of my career. So I'm new to tourism, but it's been interesting to see the how the industry has grappled with sustainability and and how what the consumer response is within that. And the reality is consumers are becoming more and more sophisticated, and the the bullshitometer of younger consumers that are now growing into being able to purchase travel and to travel, uh is the the the bullshitometer is real, and they're starting to they're able to see through the fluff and the greenwashing and the goodwashing that exists in our industry and others. And so I think there is a the the industry is doing it and must accelerate the movement towards real impact and not just stories and not just a greenwashing or a few a few good points, but you know, over here and 99% of the work is causing problems and 1% is doing a little bit of good. Uh it needs to be uh a more equal exchange, and people are starting to see that and the consumers are starting to ask for it. But less than I think we all wish. This is the other balance of of what I the the trends we see around consumers saying it's important, and then the per the actual purchasing decisions of consumers aren't always aligned with like their own values as well. So I think we as a the as a society, both ends of this, I guess, equation, the the tourism companies and the travelers are part of a larger society where this is a problem where um it takes effort and sometimes takes more money to be more sustainable or to be better, and that is a reality that we all have to grapple with and we have to find the right balance for ourselves. Um but I think the trends is in the right direction uh on both sides, on the consumer and the and and the travel company side, but it has to accelerate faster for for all of us for our world. Um the other thing that's been interesting is the this start movement away from speaking specifically around environmental sustainability and carbon and climate impacts uh movement from uh direct offsets to something a little softer and uh that's that takes a more broad view of how you can how you can offset or counteract the negative impacts of your carbon emissions or or what have you. And so there's several larger companies who are starting to who a few publicly, uh others internally that uh conversations I've been part of, they're starting to rethink how you know what does the carbon impact fund look like? Is it just is it just direct offsets planting trees, this kind of thing, or is it can it be more holistic and take a more broad view? Um and that's an interesting journey. That's a trend that I'm seeing, and that uh I'll be interested to see how it comes out because the reality is it's easier to measure the tree planting. You know, uh this this is our our negative outputs are this, we offset it with this, easy to measure. It's much harder to measure, for example, what we do. It's to have the to measure the direct carbon impacts of let's say we help finance uh solar panels on a Eco Lodge, which we have done. Um, some of that that's relatively easy because we can get a baseline of what previous years were, and then we can see the future years what the impact was. But even that takes time, like you have to do these longitudinal studies to get it, and and it's easier, it's easier to have the direct impact and have the knowledge up front uh in in some of these old ways. But I think everyone's seeing that that while that is important, it's limited, and and there's much more ways that impact can happen, and they're starting to play around with that in the industry, which I think is really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

One other question on this before we get into the practical advice, and then I want to make sure everyone knows how uh to find you guys and engage with you, Jonathan, because obviously I know you're very active in the industry at events and uh LinkedIn as well. Obviously, we've talked about the website, but I wanted to highlight the fact that I've been referencing the 2024 stats, and we're having this conversation. I don't often timestamp our episodes, but I think it's important in this regard because this is launching right at the end of 2025. So many people will be listening to this in 2026. Obviously, you have the report coming out for 2025, and you've got your plans for 2026. So given some of the projects we've talked about, the trends you were just highlighting, um, give us a little bit of an overview of Untours Foundation in 2026 and specifically you know how you're gonna evaluate this the success of the initiatives, what are some of the outcomes that you're aiming to achieve this year, especially with the uh Reset Tour Reset Tourism Fund. Uh, we've talked you know extensively about some of the things you guys have done. Tell us about some of the things that you're doing and that are coming up in 2026 and beyond.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:59

Yeah, I think the thank you for that question. The the reality is we've we've set a really good base for the Reset Tourism Fund in our work. We're a few years in now. We've had some good funding partners, some good success with that funding. Internally, our systems are aligned, and we're just ready to scale it up now. So we're ready to handle more money and to deploy more money, and that's money out into the world, making amazing things happen, coming back in as it's repaid, and then recycling it again. And so that where we're at is not some big massive transition or massive effort that's going to happen within our internal goals. It's just around accelerating the movement. So, you know, each this past year, let's say we we added uh$750,000,$850,000 to the Reset Tourism Fund through some of our own money and from our partners. Um and we we need to have at least that much again, or double that, or more than that, to we we can handle that now. We can handle more money. We couldn't two years ago. We weren't quite there, but now we are. So it's just a matter of accelerating that that growth and the scale of this program so that you know these loans that are going out, there's just more of them. And then therefore, more SMEs are able to scale their impact, scale their their revenue, um, and you know, the industry as a whole is better. The suppliers, these SMEs, these small businesses are the suppliers of the big businesses. And so therefore, the big businesses now have taken efforts to to reduce their negative impacts through the positive impact they're having on their suppliers, um, and ensuring that their suppliers can be better. So that is a very virtuous circle, and it's from our perspective, we're just at that point where we're we're ready to scale it up, and we hope those partners join us in allowing us to scale it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:46

Uh no, I appreciate those insights, and I'm definitely, I mean, as I get to know you and the organization more, I'm certainly going to be um myself drawn back to Antour's foundation as sort of a, I would say, a gold standard to or uh to to hold other organizations to, like to reference back. So given that you know you do hold that position in the industry, give us some practical advice to close out here for travelers and for people who work in the industry. So specifically for travelers looking to make decisions to travel with companies that are more sustainable. What should they be looking for? I asked Shannon this uh, of course, as well. But I think it's so important to understand because there is this concept of greenwashing, and every company now has some sort of like sustainable part of their business. And some companies are doing it, I would say most companies are doing it for the right reasons, some companies are doing it because they know they have to, because it's as uh Eric Blatchford from uh one of the board members of Adventure Travel and Trade Association said to me on our Capture Industry podcast. He was one of the first CEOs of Expedia. You know, he's an industry icon, but he's a he said, you know, sustainability is table stakes now for companies in the adventure travel space. If they're not prioritizing sustainability, customers aren't going to choose them. So if that's the case, then companies are now competing over what they're doing, right? But and and there's an element of just trying to make sure that it looks good and sounds good. Um, so tell us what are the signals you look for in a company and what should our travelers pay attention to to know that they're choosing the right organization to travel with.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

I'll say this is really hard to do as a as a traveler, even as a business like searching for suppliers, you know, the other travel companies that we want to work with, uh, or we want to hire to do a handle a certain portion of our of our trips that we sell, uh, it's hard to do because you don't know the actual inner workings. When you look at a website, you don't actually know what's going on. So I would say practical advice, no company is perfect. So you're not going to get the perfect company, but there are some that are trying harder than others and that are built, like their business model itself is just is is more sustainable than others. Um and a few ways to to see that that or to have a better window into that. The first one, uh, we go back to the very beginning of our conversation is around certifications. There are some certifications that are real, and the B Corp certification is one that uh is is applies to all industries, not just to tourism, which I in which I think makes it more powerful. Um, but it it's really challenging to become a B Corp. If you are a certified B Corp, you are real. You're not perfect, but you are but you are truly on the journey towards sustainability and have made good progress in that journey. Sustainability universal, the like the more broad terms of sustainability, inclusive of that is of course environmental. So so I say look for look for certifications and look specifically for the B Corp certification. That that is a that is not a greenwashing certification. You don't you don't become a certified B Corp because you write a check or because you sign a few things. It has to be real. Um so so that would be probably my biggest recommendation is is to look for that. And otherwise, I would say is seek out just the smaller locally owned places. It's hard to gauge the sustainability of those compared to the bigger ones, but but at least when you're traveling, you you know where the money's staying, you know where the money, like the profits are going. Um, so I think that's an important piece of any travel experience is is to seek out the the local ownership, acknowledging that sometimes that's impossible or sometimes it's doesn't quite fit, but it but if if and when able, it uh it allows for to an assurance that those dollars are are staying local.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

And Jonathan, what advice would you give for industry leaders that are looking to make their businesses more environmentally and socially sustainable, especially in the next three to five years? What would be some of your advice to them?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

So uh really good question. Also acknowledging it's uh it's not easy, but um I would say similar to the to the consumers, look for verified sources, look for certifications, look for B Corp certification when you're seeking out your partners or your suppliers, that means something, it's real. Uh I would say don't be afraid from when for the larger companies that are working with again uh you know, like an operator that's that's hiring in local companies to do portions of the trips or selling. Find find the appropriate balance between risk and and social reward of working with locally born and bred companies. Uh sometimes it's easier to work with a larger company that's more sophisticated, that has that knows how to speak the insurance speak and has these kind of things and uh is is easier at scale, but it uh but it limits the potential positive impact. So I would say be willing to take a bit of risk and be a little more creative with that. And one thing that I think is super important I say to companies all the time and business leaders, you can't you can't manage what you don't measure. So you really need to know what your negative and your negative and positive impacts are. And so a lot of companies have you know a sustainability director or VP or someone who's really taking that that deep dive, but but a lot don't as well. And I think that's that's a miss. If you don't know where you stand, then you can't fix it, or you can't work to offset it in other ways. Um, and one important tool for that, I sound like a B Corp advocate right now, I guess that's because I am to a certain extent. No, no, they're not paying me to be so. But the the assessment process to become a B Corp, it's it's in the midst of a change right now. So I don't know, I'm not fully aware of the new assessment and how it's working, but I'll speak to the old assessment is a really powerful management tool because it asks you many, many questions about all aspects of your business and how it can be good or bad for environment, for employees, for local communities, for local government, for all the different aspects. And it's just like a really intensive internal look on where you're good and where you're not, and uh for me a really valuable tool. So I think going through the process of assessing yourself and knowing where you stand is an essential step along the way towards uh towards becoming you know a net positive for the world. Uh so there's a few practical pieces of advice. The last one I'll say is there's gonna be some negative externalities of the work that you're doing, you're gonna want to try to offset that in some ways. There are some amazing initiatives that can help you offset that. I happen to help lead one of those. And so if anyone is is interested in in uh supporting small businesses to help them become better and seeing that as a tool for your larger business to uh counteract some of the negative realities of what it takes to run your business, uh we we'd love to talk and be a part of that solution for you. But it's not just us, there are others out there who can be those solutions. Um and and as an industry, we we just need to be willing to engage in those conversations, take the risk, be willing to sacrifice a certain extent so that we are truly achieving that that net positive that we all claim to want, and we all should want.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

It's really interesting to get your perspective on these. I know people listening this will likely reach out to you, and as they should, I know you'll have to manage your inbox, your LinkedIn messages, but nevertheless, um, there's so much do you have to offer the industry. I know that's why you guys offer consulting services as well to work with other organizations, but you know, it's it's um the more I speak to you, the more intrigued I am about Antour's the foundation, your role in the industry. And so I'm delighted that you are available to join us for the sustainability series. I'm thrilled that we had the chance to reconnect today, especially given that we got a chance to meet in person. I know we're recording remotely today, but I certainly look forward to seeing you at many industry events next year and continuing our collaborations. But yeah, for me and the and the travel trends team, I just want to say thank you for being a part of it. And uh obviously thanks, Shannon, for um tapping me on the shoulder and saying you should bring Jonathan back. She was absolutely right. And um, yeah, wishing you and the organization every success in 2026 and beyond. So thank you again, Jonathan. Finish off by letting us know how people can reach out to you, learn more about Untours, and uh partner with you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:08

Sure. Well, uh again, it was uh a true pleasure and honor to be on here and to uh allow us to share a bit of of our story and allow me to share a bit of our story. So I'm I'm very thankful for that. Uh uh how to get a hold of me, uh find me on LinkedIn. Search my name, Jonathan Coleman Untours, you'll probably find me. Uh email, I'm happy to receive emails. I may not respond within 24 hours, uh, depending on what else is going on, but I will respond eventually. Um so people can email me at jonathan.coleman at untours.com. So I'm there. Um you can please take a look at the website of of the foundation, untours foundation.org, or the travel company untours.com, just for more information so you can understand what we're all about. Um but yeah, I'm happy to communicate with anyone, happy to share what I know. Um and you know, we again we have a narrow niche in this industry, which is about capital to small businesses. Uh but but I know the industry needs more, and and our our world needs our industry to do more. And so the last thing I'll say is this tourism represents 10% of global GDP, 10% of global jobs, and almost 10% of global emissions. So where our industry goes, to a large extent, the world goes. We are a massive lever for good or ill in the world, and therefore that comes with pressure and responsibility. And everyone within the industry needs to needs to acknowledge that, accept that responsibility, and play their part. And so I'm happy to, outside of playing our part in my day-to-day work, uh I'm happy to help the industry as a whole move forward. And that the industry moves forward by individuals within the industry making decisions to move it forward. And so uh I would love to have conversations that help that happen. So please reach out.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

Amazing. I know our listeners definitely will. So thank you again, Jonathan. And yes, I look forward to seeing you throughout the year. And uh, please pass along my best regards to the rest of the team.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:11

Thank you. Same to you and your team.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

Thanks so much for joining us on this latest episode of Travel Trends, our part two of our sustainability series brought to us in partnership with our friends over at Intrepid. I certainly hope you enjoyed the conversation today with Jonathan Coleman, the co-CEO of the Untours Foundation and the CEO of Untours. Thanks again to Shannon Gehan, the chief sustainability officer for the Travel Corporation, for recommending that Jonathan be a part of this series. I thought he was a perfect addition. And I'm really excited to bring you next week's conversation with Dr. Susan Ettie, the Global Environmental Impact Manager over at Intrepid. That is also an incredible story, the journey they've been on and what they have planned in 2026 going into 2030. It's a really fascinating discussion. So make sure that you are subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when new episodes go live. And then don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on all our social channels. So be sure to check those out on Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn. And then, of course, our monthly newsletter, which we sent out a happy holidays message to all of our team here in December. And the next one will be coming out in early January. Thanks again to all of our listeners for supporting the travel trends over the course of this year, all of our partners, all of our guests. It's been a huge honor to be able to bring all of these episodes together. And I know our team is ready for a brief break, but we are going to be back with a massive season seven and the remainder of season six, which is going to be our aviation series and a couple more captains of industry. So lots to look forward to in 2026. But I hope you enjoy the holidays. Have a wonderful break, and we'll look forward to speaking to you all again in the new year.