How oneworld Is Shaping the Future of Global Aviation with Roger Blackburn

The aviation story is bigger than fares and aircraft, it’s about how global alliances quietly choreograph your entire journey. In the our kickoff episode of our Aviation series, we sit down with Roger Blackburn, VP Commercial & Loyalty at oneworld Alliance, to reveal how 15+ member airlines coordinate routes, lounges, data, and service so travelers can move across continents with fewer frustrations and better perks. If you’ve ever wondered why your status unlocks priority lanes, lounge access, and smoother transfers across multiple carriers, or how alliances choose new members, Roger takes us behind the curtain, minus the jargon.

We explore the business logic that keeps travelers inside a single ecosystem: connecting traffic that completes itineraries, scale that fuels major innovation (including a $150M sustainability investment with Breakthrough Energy Ventures), and shared insights that improve the customer experience. Roger also breaks down what sets oneworld apart, its premium orientation, generous priority benefits, and a practical approach to technology. Instead of forcing a single super-app, the alliance aims for smart integration: letting you keep your preferred airline app while oneworld handles the complex plumbing in the background.

Looking ahead to 2026, we tackle the big industry questions: how to identify real sustainability progress (think modern fleets like A350s and 787s, credible SAF commitments, and operational efficiency), how European network carriers stay competitive against low-cost rivals, and why premium demand remains strong thanks to booming premium leisure and smarter upgrade strategies.

At the heart of it all is a simple goal: bringing back the joy of flight. From elevated alliance lounges to smoother disruptions and clearer benefits, oneworld wants the airport to feel like part of the journey, not an obstacle.

Thanks to Heys for sponsoring this series! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

It is for me a chunk of the pleasure of the job. You are doing something fundamentally pretty remarkable. You talk about your dad. My dad went on a plane uh once in his life when I took him on uh on a on a BA flight. He was blown away and grew up at a time when um there were a lot less planes around. And it's uh it's a remarkable thing that airlines are managing to do and all their all their supporters around the uh the ecosystem.

Meet Roger Blackburn And Oneworld’s Scope

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast. This is your host, Dan Christian, and we're about to begin our final series of season six, and we have a big finished plan for you. We have a three-part series on aviation and a major contest that I am super excited to share these details with you. It's a thank you to all of our listeners for supporting us over the years and with season six, our biggest, most ambitious season yet, and especially as we start 2026, given our plans for season seven, season eight, our next summit, all of the spotlight episodes and custom series we're working on, the events that we're a part of. We have such a big, bright year ahead, and it's all thanks to our listeners. And so I loved giving prizes away at our AI Summit. I'm not trying to be Oprah or Ellen, but I love giving the gift of travel, and I'm also a big fan of Hayes luggage. I travel with Hayes luggage, and I want to make sure that our listeners have the opportunity, and I can't wait to see one of our listeners rocking Hayes luggage at the airport and it being someone that won it by virtue of listening to our podcast and posting and sharing. And just a bit of context, Hayes is a Canadian travel brand, but they're global. It's a family business that you're actually going to hear more about on an episode of our Travel Trends Spotlight, featuring their CEO, Emran Shaikh. It's an incredibly inspiring family story. He's taken over the family business. His daughters work in the business. When you look at this company, it's incredible to see its global scale and the types of products that they offer. And then you meet the person and the family behind this business, it makes it that much more meaningful, which is why I love doing this podcast. And I'm really keen to share that spotlight episode that will be going live in the next week. So look out for a spotlight episode on the Hayes CEO, Emran Shake, who has kindly made this contest possible for all of our listeners. And all you need to do to be entered to win a set of Hayes Astro luggage is post on social media, whether it be LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok, whatever your preferred social media is. We just want to hear one highlight from season six, one of your favorite guests, or one of the topics that we covered, and let the world know that you're excited for season seven. That's all we ask. And just make sure that you tag at Travel Trends Podcast. We'll be looking for those every week. And I will announce the first winner on next week's episode where we speak to the head of disruption at Hopper. But in today's episode, as we kick off our aviation series, we are speaking to Roger Blackburn, who is the VP of Loyalty and Commercial at OneWorld, which is one of the world's largest airline alliances. More than 15 airlines belong to this, from British Airways to Qantas to Qatar. And very interestingly, Roger's background was more than 25 years at British Airways, and he spent the last seven years at OneWorld. So it's a perfect person to bring into the conversation to kick off 2026, wrap up our season six of our podcast to talk about the emerging destinations, how airlines are changing based on consumer interest and demand. And even one of the things that I talk about with Mran Shaikh in the spotlight episode is how things like luggage is changing in this new era of reduced cabin sizes and what you can actually bring on a plane. So, with some of the things that I am very keen to talk to Roger that we cover today are all related to seeing my son's passion for travel. I think most of our listeners know that my son is in his first year of university studying to become a pilot. And I've spent half of my time traveling and the rest of the time as he's been growing up back at the airport because he's been an avid plane spotter. He had a YouTube channel. I've gotten so immersed into the world of aviation. So I'm so keen to bring this series to life, and I'm sure it's going to be of great interest to all of our listeners as well. So make sure that you are subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when new episodes go live. And of course, we post clips and highlights on all our social channels LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram. So you can check those out and follow along for highlights from the guests, including Roger, who I'm going to bring on now because we have so much to cover. Thanks again to all of our listeners. I look forward to seeing many of your posts over the next few weeks to highlight some aspect of season six and your excitement for season seven. Thanks again to the team at Hayes for sponsoring. If you want more information, check out Hayes.com. That's H-E-Y-S.com. And now let's bring in the star of this episode, Roger Blackburn from One World. Roger, it's great to have you with us. Thanks so much for joining us on Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Thank you very much, Dan. Thank you.

Roger’s Path From BA To Oneworld

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Well, it's a thrill to have you here, especially given uh background and introduction you have, all the uh the years you spent at British Airways, the fact that OneWorld is obviously the you know there are a couple of the world's largest alliances. I am a Star Alliance guy. Now, just to establish that off the top, I know heartbreak. It's because I'm based in Canada, right? But I love British Airways, I love Qantas, and um I do love OneWorld. Um, but I accumulate most of my points um and miles at at st at Star Alliance. But I want the world to know more about you and specifically One World and where this industry is headed. But let's let's start with a bit of your background, Roger. Um tell us a little bit how you got into the aviation space.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Uh well, how how did I get here? Um gosh, uh like many um people, I guess I uh uh I thought working for an airline would some somehow be cool. And um you know I wanted to travel the world and I and I had this idea that maybe if I if I worked for an airline I'd I'd get to travel for the world. And I was genuinely one of those guys trying to work out, but like my kids now, what the hell do I do with my life? Where do I go? And I'd done, you know, I'd done various things at college, none of them were screaming a particular job. So yeah, I uh I I kind of drifted in and like many, you know, many people I came in thinking, oh maybe I could do this for a little bit, and then there is something about the airline industry, which I'm sure you will uh see in others you have on here, where you kind of get hooked and you um and wow, 30 years later you are still hanging around airlines and you're still loving it and you're still finding new things to uh to learn and uh and try out.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Yeah, and now we should establish for everyone too that you're based in London. Obviously, you've got a great English accent that people are picking up on very quickly. But uh tell us a little bit about being w where you're based and how that impacted you know your career in terms of starting with British Airways and then continuing on with OneWorld.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, yeah, sure. So, yeah, London. Um I've I've actually lived in London all my all my life, and uh many of my colleagues have very uh very different backgrounds and move around the world. But I'm uh I'm pretty static here. When you live in uh such a fantastic city, it's um it's hard to drag yourself away. And when you live in such a fantastic city, um the obvious uh the the airline, I guess we're lucky here. We've got some several great airlines in the in the UK, but um I I got this love of BA um very early on, iconic brand, and um uh came in and drank the Kool-Aid and uh and it's very, very hard to um to uh to to to move away from uh from that and from from uh from BA One World. Um uh BA was a founding member of uh for One World. I saw One World grow up. I never had much to do with One World. I did a whole variety of things in the airline, and one of the joys of working in an airline is you can have a pretty diverse career. Um uh but um when I was looking for something new to do about six years ago, uh the idea of uh coming and what working with a wider family of airlines that I felt shared um BA's values was just too good to turn down.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

It's one of the reasons I was so keen to have you on the aviation series of travel trends because we did a loyalty deep dive this season, and obviously that's uh a big part of your current role. But given that you've got such a deep understanding of the airline space, you know, having spent you know 28 years at British Airways and then you know the last seven years at OneWorld, I think you have a unique perspective and also expertise on what's happening in the airline space because and uh what this is what I want to emphasize to our audience, especially given my background, is that you know you get so much understanding when you work within one business, but then when you work across different airlines, which is effectively what you do now with you know a global role, um the Americas, Europe, Middle East, Africa, you have a really unique understanding of where this industry is and where it's headed in 2026 and beyond. But let's let's make sure our audience understands One World Alliance. Would you mind giving us you just mentioned about how it was formed and BA being a forming uh partner, but tell us a bit about One World Alliance, how it was established, and what that company is and does.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Sure. So we uh we were founded um getting on for 27 years ago now, and uh and the original set of members were American Airlines, uh BA, um, Cafe and Qantas. Uh and it was very much at that time when airlines were looking out across the world um uh wondering how they could do more in collaboration with um uh with partners, recognizing the need um increasingly um businesses global travel is uh uh supporting that is is a really key part of uh what airlines do. And and no one airline can can do all of that together. Hence the um the move to building partnerships um uh which grew into these uh these initially quite small alliances, which has grown into where we are now with um with uh three really, really significant alliances that span um you know the the the majority of um uh the the the major airline um demand across the across the globe. Um One World has very much been um I I coming out of the the ethos of those original carriers and the ones we've uh we've been lucky enough to uh to to bring into the group um over that time. Very much a a premium focus, um, very much a quality focus. Forty percent of the um sky uh of of One World is in the Skytrax top twenty. Um we really do um uh over-leverage on uh on on premium and business and uh and because of that we're really take loyalty very, very significantly and we have a very generous loyalty program. So it's that kind of stuff that I think is the uh the core to the um the the why we're here and uh and what drives us.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Yeah, and one of the things I wanted to get into with you is the the B2B and B2C side, and obviously you know, Roger, that our audience is largely B2B. Um there are some people listen to our podcasts that are travelers that are just interested in the industry. Um but but one of the things I wanted to start off with is is the B2B side. And so you've got 15 member airlines across six continents, and you have to manage that collaboration. First thing I want to just to understand from a business point of view is what's in it for the airlines. So just and and some of those may be obvious, and and certainly there's there's a number that stand out to me, but I'd just love to hear it from your perspective when you're looking at and and I just want to acknowledge too that I am a One World member. I signed up when I was living in Australia because of Qanta. So, you know, and that's why I mentioned in the beginning that because I'm based in Toronto and I fly mainly with Air Canada, um, but there's a benefit to having uh membership in multiple programs depending on where you are, where you're traveling, and and so I'll I'll get into the consumer side later because I'm keen to know some of the differences in in OneWorld's program. But from a B2B point of view, when you're looking at the airlines that you work with, what are the benefits of airlines being part of the One World Alliance?

Why Airlines Join Alliances

SPEAKER_00 11:59

That um uh the key one is uh is the uh the the the connecting traffic. We um uh you know any one airline cannot meet all the um or cannot serve all the destinations that they would like to serve, that their customers want to serve, um want to want to fly to. So it gives you that that expanded reach um uh while being able to continue to build that that base of uh of uh of loyal customers um it within your organization. So you don't have to say go to the competition, you can say go to my go to my my partners, um stay within the um uh uh within the alliance overall. So that's that's the absolutely key thing. I mean I uh now now we're together, um we find uh there's a lot of value that comes from just the scale, leveraging the scale of the alliance. We can do things as a group that we simply can't do. Um that the the individual airlines would would be able to do in a much less impactful way. So we may talk about um sustainability uh uh at a later point, but um uh we've just launched a massive fund, 150 million in partnership with Breakthrough Energy Ventures, and um that's something where we've got uh currently five seem to be probably more of the the members participating together, and it's something that just needs scale, and it's something that's very hard to do if you're an individual airline. And there's there's p there are other examples like that where that scale is is key. The last thing I think all um airlines get and all uh all individuals who get associated with the alliance get is um there's a lot of learning. I mean you talked about the uh the the the diversity of the organizations in the airline industry and how that's that's fascinating. Um you put airline people together, they want to learn from each other, they are fascinated. It's a it's it's a rather amazing thing. You can be in a room with um uh a bunch of people, and culturally you can feel very different from them, and maybe you're struggling a bit with the language. When you start start speaking airline, you realize actually you've got this rich um set of uh common um common understanding and uh and you can explore a lot of things and you can learn a lot from each other. So I think it's a combination of those things, the hard economics of the the feed, the um the scale and the uh and the lessons you can learn.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Well, just on that note, with um new member airlines coming into OneWorld, um I was genuinely keen to know what that process looks like. We had uh during our loyalty series KM Malta Airlines, which is a regional carrier that I'm sure you're familiar with. And so and globally there are you know a number of smaller and regional airlines, but obviously, as you highlighted, one of the biggest opportunities for uh for airlines to benefit from is the global connectivity. So if you've missed a flight and you missed your connection and you can work within the One World Alliance to be able to make sure your traveler gets to where they need to go, um, so you can really benefit from that capacity, which myself being a very frequent traveler, it's why I'm I'm very dedicated to programs and maintaining status. Um, when it comes to a new member airline, what ultimately makes a good fit? So if we have airlines that are listening to this, they're thinking, wait a second, am I when would I be in a position to join One World? Um, but yeah, what does that look like as far as bringing new members into the group? Because I know you've had Oman Air recently and Fiji Airways uh join the alliance. Um so yeah, tell us a little bit more about how that works.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, so uh the main the the first thing we're looking for is uh is is network fit. We um uh you know we're looking for uh uh an airline that will bring um destinations to the One World Network that we're currently not not serving. And we we like as an alliance to to generally minimize the overlap. Um that's not necessarily the approach that all the alliances take, but um we're trying to um as far as possible spread out across the globe uh and serve serve um different areas independently. So network fit is the is the first thing. Absolutely core for us though is the is the uh the the quality and the and the service ethic. So we want we want an airline that delivers great service um uh probably um uh uh with a bias towards premium. Um and it's going to fit from a point of from the um you know it's gonna make sense ultimately to a customer who gets onto um uh a plane. Oh yes, I see why this this airline is part of One World. I I get that, I can feel it as I as I sit down, as I look around, as I talk to the crew. Um so those are the kind th those are the the the the main things. Obviously, there's a whole set of criteria around um all the all the details and uh assuring each other that we're gonna we're gonna meet the safety standards and uh and everything else. But those are the core drivers.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Now let's flip over to the consumer side for a moment for everyone that's keen to know how OneWorld differs from, say, Star Alliance or Sky Team, kind of the three big uh global alliances. And again, there's benefits to all of them. There's certainly some consistency that I've seen in my experience between the benefits of uh being a member of them. But let's let's let's talk about the OneWorld priority benefits. Because obviously I love uh fast track lanes and lounge access, but um tell us a little bit about the benefits that someone gets when they become OneWorld that they can use across all the airlines in the group.

Loyalty Integration And Customer Data

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Sure. And yes, there are exactly as you say fast track. If you're a um uh a tiered member of our uh frequent flyer schemes, you will get access to uh to to um to fast track, um, you will get uh um access to premium um check-in. Um we have a really um uh I would I would argue a very generous um uh reward scheme for our for our most frequent flyers. We have first class lounges um that you get access to as the top tier is the uh is the emeralds. Um we have a very wide set of uh of of business lounges. Um uh so yes, absolutely. That's that's that's very much what we're what we're trying to prioritize. And the generosity of that is is key to us when the delivery of that is uh is key and something we want to work on increasingly um to make sure it's as tight as possible and we're as disciplined as possible and we're as aligned as possible in how we how we deliver that to the uh to the individual.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Well, one of the things I wanted to ask, because I know it's not always just about miles and points, and the loyalty space is incredibly complex. I know that's also very much your world, and so we'll maybe touch on a few things around that, but I really that's a conversation unto itself, and I want to make sure we stay focused on aviation and um so one of the things I wanted to know from again from a consumer point of view is that when you have people coming into the like with their own airline, so in my case, of course, uh um I use my aeroplan points, um, and I'm an aeroplan, but I you know I only fly wherever possible within my program so that I can always kind of earn within that. Um, how does it work when you have partners with their own uh loyalty programs kind of integrating within One World? So you've kind of got this, you know, trying to balance between the One World program and airline specific programs, um, and trying to make sure that the customer is always at the center of that. How how how do you manage that uh in your role? There's got to be a fair amount of complexity to that.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, and uh I I we are what we do is is very much the uh the the sum total of what everyone else has done uh does. We're uh we're as good as the um uh the airline schemes, and when I argue that we're great, it's because we've got great airline loyalty schemes in there. So we will yeah, we will bring in uh if we bring in a new member, we're very much going to be bringing in um uh the lo their loyalty scheme to participate. Um and and and if you're in a one of our Mumber airline loyalty schemes, you get the same access that everyone does across the network to uh to anyone's

SPEAKER_02 20:04

And the other thing I wanted to ask before we get into technology and innovation, which I know is a big part of certainly the airline industry, it has to be. When it comes to the programs themselves and rewards and giving people recognition, what are some of the innovations you're seeing in that space that are one of the reasons where people are like, I just love OneWorld because what are some of the reasons that you have such loyalty within the group?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

It comes back to the uh the the quality of the product um fundamentally. I mean we can I would like to pretend that I can do some clever stuff to um to make it easier for people to do things, and I want to do some clever stuff to make it easier for people to do things, to access their um their benefits, to understand their benefits. Uh you know, you you know um you've just done a series on it, airline loyalty is complex. Um if there are some guys who really master understanding the detail of this stuff, but they have a lot of they have more time than many of our uh our flyers. So we we absolutely want it to make it easy for uh for people to appreciate what they get. And I can I can help with that and I can encourage my my colleagues in the airline um schemes to help with that. What ultimately um drives though is the experience they're getting. The fact that the lounges are are great, the the fact that the onboard products are great. Um that's that's the that's the core um driver. I mean you mentioned um customer centricity, how do we keep the customer at the uh uh uh at the centre? I mean uh another thing I would say about that is that um you know increasingly we see our our airline the the people who run our airline um loyalty schemes are also the people who are who are looking after customer data in their their organizations, and we see those two functions coming together increasingly. Um and these guys are absolutely steeped in what their most valuable customers want and need and uh and are and are going through and are experiencing. Um and they bring that to into the alliance and we all try and work together on that, and and a lot of that is is common stuff that we can we can all work from. So my job is to um is to bring the best of them together, really, and to to to offer something over the top.

Tech Upgrades: Notifications And AI Tools

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah, well, you know, you guys have such incredible volume and therefore data, so you have and both uh at a global level and then also with the airlines themselves, to be able to understand traveler behavior, buying patterns, um, and to be able to ultimately provide better personalization. And that's one of the things that's always stood out to me that uh and even some of the innovations within airlines, and I'll give you an exact example, and I'm keen to get your take on this because I I'm usually on the on the receiving end of these of uh these initiatives that often must take internally two or three years to bring to life. Um, for example, as soon as I check my bag in, I get a notification that my bag has been boarded on the plane. Um and some of these things, obviously, that's that's addressing a pain point where people are concerned about losing their luggage or you know, at not making a connection, that type of thing. Um so along the lines of whether it's personalization, but or some of the initiatives that you've seen uh across the group, what would be some of the ones uh that might be most interesting to our audience? Whether it be how they're utilizing technology, how they're improving customer service. Uh we'll get into sustainability in a moment, but what what are some of the pilot projects or some of the initiatives that you've seen across the group that might be interesting for our listeners?

Airports, Terminals, And Lounge Coordination

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Uh well one of the things in in terms of uh new clever technology, one of the um most interesting things we've got going at the moment is something that actually customers won't see initially, but hopefully they'll get the benefits of, which is um an AI tool to help um our airline people understand um the alliance and the different members in the alliance. Um there's uh there's a lot of people in uh in in the One World member airlines, it's over 350,000, and uh and they don't all they're not all experts in everything. Um and there's a lot of information they need. And I've I've been in um I've been in One World for, as you say, six or seven years now. I don't know everything there is to know, far from it. So a tool that helps um uh airline people who uh interpret what should be going on in the alliance, understand the rules, understand what's possible on when you're a particular status on a particular product with a particular member is immensely helpful um to people who are in the front line who are delivering service or people in the back office who are trying to resolve what's gone wrong and uh and and work out why. So we hope we will see the customers will experience that through the um uh through the um the better information that's um that that's flowing. We may well bring that out to the front as well if that if that's something that can can can help customers going forward.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

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SPEAKER_02 26:45

And now, back to the show. So it's interesting, like airlines, airports. That's another thing that I find immensely fascinating as I've gotten more into this world and attended conferences like AFA, where uh our podcast is the official partner for AFA Miami. We went for the first time last year, um, the aviation festival. And what I came to understand, Roger, that you know a lot more about is ultimately how airlines work with airports as well, because airports are responsible for a lot of the guest experience and the delivery. Um, from you know, once you get to the gate, um, then all of a sudden you're on your plane, and then when you land again, it's up to the airport. Um, how do you manage that? Out of curiosity, because uh one of the things I'm keen to know is how OneWorld works with all these global airports to make sure that you're in the right terminals, that you you know you set your guests up for the best experience to be able to get for uh connecting flights. Tell us a little bit of how you manage that dynamic as well.

Sustainability, SAF, And The Investment Fund

SPEAKER_00 27:40

The alliance side of that is really the um the coordination um aspect. So our airlines will have, you know, typically in a um uh in a particular airport, one of our airlines will probably be in the lead and have the most capacity there. There are a few airports where there's a significant amount of um capacity here in London. Um uh most of the alliance flies into uh uh into London um uh and there's a there's a lot going on. So our role is very much helping the airlines work together in a coordinated way so that collectively we can we can um influence the airport to uh to to do things that are that are helpful from the alliance point of view, to make sure that we're in similar locations in the terminal, to make sure that we our our where we want it, common processes can work um uh can work easily. So we can uh uh you know a another example of our scale, maybe we can argue for um for lounge space that we couldn't get individually and and so on. So um we are increasingly trying to uh uh coordinate and leverage the um the the the the the talents of each airline in a in a particular location to make sure that we're offering that that really good service. And have productive relationships with um uh with airports. Sometimes airline airport relationships can be a little bit difficult because there's a fraught argument about performance and uh uh and operational issues um battling on and actually stepping back and coming through one world is uh you can have a you can have a different level of conversation, maybe, um, and unblock some of the issues that you can get in the airline world. So very much it's uh it's an important topic for us.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Well it's interesting because you you bring up an emp uh uh an important point that I learned about just trying to uh shared goals. So one of the goals that I understood from the airports is you know that their objective is to manage the time between check-in and boarding your plane, and so there's a success metric there for them for guest experience. And the one thing that stood out to me as soon as I heard that, I was like, well, then why do I enter the c the uh the duty free shop right away? Because that's gonna slow me down immediately if your success metric is speed. Um but uh but the um uh the other thing I want to ask you about on this uh topic, Roger, is an important question around uh sustainability, because you know, we started to uh segue into that, and I really want to discuss that now because you know, when we think about the importance of the future of travel and being able to continue to uh you know both live on this planet and and be able to uh limit our impact uh as we travel. And one of the things that always gets brought up every time a company is uh trying to prioritize this initiative, they always say, Well, what about the airline? What about the airline? Because obviously um the carbon is a real factor. And so I know airlines are a lot of under a lot of pressure to decarbonize, and the alliances are probably in a unique position uh to drive more collective impact. And so uh I'm keen to know. I know one of the big initiatives that OneWorld has is a net zero uh 2050 goal, which is coming up faster than we realize. Um, but tell us a little bit about the sustainability side of uh uh of both OneWorld and the airlines that you work with.

Beyond Fuel: Fleet, Operations, Efficiency

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah, sure. So uh we do um uh we do the sort of things you would expect us to do. Um uh uh we are very much in the business of helping um uh our member airlines understand where they are, and they're all at various levels um engaging in this topic. Um they're all doing some great things. Um they often have really strong um uh sustainability leads who are passionate about um exactly as you say, finding a way to um to carry on living on this planet and also um carry on travelling. Um so the first thing we do, as is so often the way with it with the alliance, is get those people together. We have a environmental sustainability board and we get those those those experts together, and they get immense value before they do anything for us by talking to each other and sharing experiences and finding ways to get things done um uh across across the airline. Of course, where it gets interesting and uh and different is when they start putting their heads together and saying, well, maybe we could do more together. And that's really where the the idea of the uh the the investment fund that I mentioned came from. By collectively working together, we can we can put a lot more clout behind uh an investment fund. And what we see there particularly is the challenge of uh um uh generating uh sustainable aviation fuel. As we look forward, sustainable aviation fuel will be a really key part of of how we solve this problem for um a lot of the way through to uh to to to 2025. And it's what we need right now and it's what we need to to sustain and build as we as we go. Um there's some good progress going on. Um there's uh uh I think uh as an industry um something like a hundred million uh tons of sustainable aviation fuel uh were produced last year, it's gonna be uh two million tonnes this year. So that's great, there's growth, but there's still not enough, and it's still too expensive. If you look at it as uh you know how how will this actually help us get to the goal? We need more and we need we need something different, and we need some some breakthroughs uh to to to to call the word. So we've we've partnered with the breakthrough um energies fund um uh uh funds to set up something. We we we we're not experts in um uh in investment, as you can uh imagine, and we are not experts in the technology, but by partnering with these guys and pool pooling our funds and also then bringing bringing in others in the industry, um, we very much hope to sign up um uh some some interesting companies uh who aren't airlines but are nevertheless um uh uh very much part of um uh uh this the this whole ecosystem to to to find ways to leapfrog where we currently are and really get that investment and interest in the technologies that are come along, the next generation, the generation after that, that are going to be the ones that are unlocked the price points and so on. So it's very, very exciting, pretty different from us from what we would normally be doing, and a fair bit different maybe from what some of the airlines could contemplate doing uh by themselves.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yeah, it's so I find this this whole topic really fascinating just because when we look at the industry that we want to see grow, and we because it's one thing to look at the industry as it is today and think about how do we make it more sustainable and trying to drive down uh some of those negative impacts. The reality is this industry is gonna continue to grow, and the expectations are the number of global travelers will double in the next 25 years, so between 2025 and 2050, and so we've got this you know new problem, which is that you know, how do we create like a truly sustainable uh experience? And especially we've got younger travelers who are more interested in the eco-friendly options, so they're increasingly saying that you know they'll look for sustainable tourism um as a preferred choice of travel. And you know, some people are saying, you know, I would, you know, I'll take rail or that you know I'll avoid taking a short haul flight. We've seen that in Europe, and I I want to get into the European market too with you in a moment. But just just to finish off on this incredibly important topic, because I know we've got lots to cover, um, when it comes to the technology infrastructure, some of the other things, it what else is there beyond fuel? And I know one of the things, certainly with Airbus and um and Boeing, there's been a big focus because fuel is expensive. It's not only uh that it's um uh unfortunately polluting, it's also very expensive. And so I know one of the initiatives that's been underway is to try and reduce the amount of fuel that these planes use to reduce cost and then also reduce the impact. So tell us if you wouldn't mind just some of the other ways that airlines are looking at this um to achieve that, because it it is it is a it is a very big and important goal to get to net zero. Um but yeah, what are some of the other initiatives out of interest? And and the reason I ask is because what should travelers be paying attention to? What are the signals they should be looking at from their airline partners to say, yes, they're on the right track, they get it, here's all the things they're doing. Because everyone's concerned about you know just the perspective of it and feeling good about themselves, but not then realizing, wait a second, it's not that meaningful. So yeah, tell us some of the things that are underway beyond the fuel or how that works and and what travelers should be looking for.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Yeah. So I uh you you you you mentioned the um the the the the the large items there. Um there are all sorts of exciting um potential ideas out here. We are sadly a significant time off some of the really exciting stuff around new fuel, um, you know, radically different fuel technologies, um, aircraft type and so on. Um what will what will get us there, what we need to get us there, is the sustainable aviation fuel we've been talking about. It's it's airframe technology. Um through my life, it's it's been astonishing to see how efficient um airline travel has got in uh in fuel terms. Every generation that comes along, there's another big slice off the uh um the uh the fuel burn. Um and that will that needs to carry on and that will carry on, and that will be a significant part. So one thing and you can you can track this stuff now, you can look as a consumer and say, well who's who's got whose fleet is in the best state? Um uh and airlines are working really hard on that, and obviously there's a there's a limit to how much you how quickly you can turn your fleet over, and there's some well advertised constraints in the system at the moment in terms of um aircraft delivery, but we're all um we're all pushing that one um as much as we can. Um the unsung hero in this is um is efficient operations, and I say unsung, for a long time there's been a focus, airlines have focused on efficient operations just because, as you say, fuel is really expensive and has a habit of getting excruciatingly expensive when things get really difficult. So all airlines want to be efficient, even if there was no such thing as global warming. But um but global warming adds to that, and there is still a lot of stuff that can be done. Just like you know, any business continues to find ways of cutting costs, um, our members are uh are continually trying to innovate in terms of their their their their processes in um uh you know how they taxi around the airport, um, how do they do that most efficiently, how do they switch the aircraft on and uh and and get going um uh you know with preconditioned air and everything else so that in the most efficient way, minimizing the amount of time they're they're burning um uh fuels that emiss uh emit greenhouse gases and uh uh uh and um maximizing the uh the the the uptime for everything else. So those are the three core things. I would love to tell you that there's um there's some other magic out there and and the rate at which technology changes, who's to say what'll come? But those are gonna be the three real key ones and the ones you should watch for whether your airline has a has a good story or not.

Europe’s Market: Competing With Low Cost

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Yeah. Well, one thing I'm just gonna quickly add to that, Roger, because it's I'm I'm sure my son will love this, because he's becoming a uh uh a pilot. We've spent a lot of years uh traveling as a family, and he's always been the one. We did a a round-the-world trip when our kids were 12 uh for three months, and he was responsible for all the airline decisions. And so, to your point about actually making the so of course he wanted to fly on an Emirates 380 um uh to Dubai, that was one of his like on his wish list. Um but one of the other interesting ones that was as well was uh Ethiopian Airlines at the time had just uh uh had their new fleet of Airbus 350s and and um what I found really fascinating about that, I just wanted to share this with our listeners, and because it's the point that you made, Roger, so I just want to underscore that, which is that when you're looking at who you should fly with and you're looking at the fleet, that is obviously because the unfortunately the A380, despite being a beautiful aircraft and one of my favorites, and you know, a gorgeous double decker um that's now effectively, you know, they stopped production, it's such a shame, I think, in many ways. But one of the big reasons for that is the cost to operate that plane. Um and so the idea was scale um to be able to have that capacity, but there's so many other more compelling options now that are far more fuel efficient and that can fly long distances. And so the Airbus A350 being one example of that. But what I wanted to highlight to our listeners is like when um even my wife and I heard that my son wanted to fly Ethiopian, we didn't have a perspective on Ethiopia as being as it you know as it turns out and rightly so, it is the number one airline in Africa, and they've invested very significantly in this new fleet. And so I just wanted to highlight that to our listeners that you know when you um take a moment and do some analysis, you may hear of an airline and then all of a sudden realize, wait a second, they have just upgraded their fleet. And so uh one that you might think is a smaller regional carrier or would not be as up to snuff is actually leading the way.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

And I would raise you for Ethiopia, I would uh I would shout out to Royal Emmerak, um, our member in uh in North Africa. Very ambitious um growth plans, really exciting company, relatively new member to to Webworld they've been in since 2000. And they are investing in their their fleet exactly in those terms. And you um, you know, going forward there you're gonna see your son may be may want to check them out as as an alternative.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

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SPEAKER_01 42:25

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Premium Travel, Upgrades, And Demand Shifts

SPEAKER_02 44:04

And now back to the show. Moving on from sustainability, the one other thing I wanted to make sure we talked about on this series is the uh global nature of aviation. Because you think about those two major aircraft manufacturers, most people are are bidding on those. Of course, there's Bombarde, there's been some more consolidation in this uh space, but um but really there's the two major airlines. So despite the fact you may be uh traveling in Asia Pacific or Europe or North America, there is certainly some consistency to the fleets that they offer and the planes that they buy either from Europe or for the U.S. So um but what I wanted to get into is how the different markets vary from your point of view. Um Asia Pacific, uh, I know we just spoke about Africa, but I really wanted to get your take on Europe in particular. Because Europe, um, you know, I would say, much like the US, is obviously a very competitive market. There's a huge amount of um uh consumers and demand. There's obviously been this big focus on ultra-low-cost airlines, for better and for worse, um, in both of those markets. So you have, you know, Ryanair, EasyJet, some of those competing in the marketplace. Um, and so when we think about the European market being highly competitive, how do some of the established carriers compete in that world and want one world? Because I often think of the alliances as the primary benefit of being long-haul international travel. But when people are traveling purely within Europe, how do you make sure that people are still traveling with one world airlines? So you tell us a little bit about the European market.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah. Well, if it yes, it's a it's a um a market very dear to my heart. And when I was back at BA, um uh one of the things I did was work on um uh on business planning and uh and at the time it was um we were putting together the plan for the first um uh sort of the first few years out from merging with I with Iberia. And short haul and the competition of low-cost carriers was very much something that was uh w was in our minds. It's it's essential that you find a way of competing as a as a as a large network carrier. Um it's not the s it's it's not that you will um beat these guys for um for growth. And I have to say, you you said for better, for worse, um I think the brilliant thing that that low-cost carriers have done is is change the the conversation and the customer perceptions about um about what air travel could be. And uh while we can all um gripe about certain aspects of the way they uh they they fling things ancillaries at you when you b when you buy a uh a product or whatever, basically they're running quality airlines uh and they're delivering um at a very, very um low price point. And they've taken a lot of stuff out that maybe the bigger guys were were offering by default and and didn't need to. So they did some very smart things. You can't beat them for scale, maybe, but absolutely we want to be um uh winning the battle to to to pull people out of Europe when they're going on wider journeys, and we need to be very relevant um uh and and therefore cost competitive. So if you look at look at our members now, they will be able to um match um maybe not the absolute rock bottom, lowest sort of lead-in um fares that you get with some of these guys of, you know, uh five pounds or whatever, but they can match they can match realistic um uh lead-in um uh economy fares. So that's a that's a fundamental. What we're really trying to do is though, d that business of of of taking you beyond um uh the the the shores of Europe and we're um and and we are well positioned with uh when you look at where people want to go out of Europe, we're absolutely fantastic across the North Atlantic with um uh American and BA and Iberia and Finair all together uh in a joint business. Iberia are um growing very rapidly to to to Latin America. And then when you look out Asia Woods, there's um there's Finair and there's our uh amazing brands in um of Cathay and JAL, where we're very strong. And in the Middle East, we've we're the only alliance with three um three members, and again um Skytrax number one, Qatar, um we have some fantastic um offerings there. So I it's a combination of things, and and we are a slightly different model from some of the low-cost guys. We have to be relevant um versus them. Um but we're really about those um those larger scale travel needs.

Global Growth: Asia, South America, Middle East

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Yeah, well, you bring up something interesting there, too, and just I want to just quickly touch on this because one of the things I want to ask you about is business travel and corporate travel compared to kind of the mass um economy travel that is really kind of uh one of the big drivers of our industry. But when we rewind, and obviously this is even more your time than mine, but there's not much difference in age between the two of us. But so the golden age of travel, when people were flying from London to New York on a BA flight with the idea like the seven the glorious 747, um if there was pianos on the upper level floor and even people standing having drinks and smoking at the time, if we go that um, there was this idea that travel was glamorous. And then it what also came with that is all this service and the amenities. And one of the things I didn't realize, Roger, until my son was heading off to become a pilot, I found it really fascinating. This is obviously something you know, but I just want to share with our listeners because I was I found it so interesting that the airline dress code was really modeled after the the ship industry because we needed to convince people that they could travel safely on ships. So we'd have the captain out there with his hat and his like, you know, looking like almost like military, so that people know they've established, they've got experience, and so you'd go, you know, you'd have a confidence of going on a ship with this crew, and the same thing with an airline. You know, they're dressed appropriately, they're titled appropriately, they give you confidence to take to the skies. And so our industry was heading in a direction that was this golden age of travel, and then all of a sudden, this idea that wait a second, we don't have to serve everyone food, and we don't like we can dramatically reduce the cost. And then you had this, you know, in the 90s and beyond, companies like Southwest and the different ultra-low-cost carriers coming into the market. And what I find now, and this is coming back to my question, what I find now is that customers are expecting more again. So what we're seeing, and I'll use the example here in North America for many of our listeners that are US and Canada, um, you know, there was WestJet that was formed on the model of Southwest in Canada. And if you look at companies like Porter Airlines, which is one of the newer um uh carriers in Canada that has expanded dramatically, you know, they took this model of re-you know they started adding in those services again. And all of a sudden, and any of those flights, you would get free drinks, including alcohol. Um, and they would and so now Air Canada is being forced to reintroduce things that they took away to try and reduce costs. And and as you know better than me, a lot of the larger established carriers, in a response to this, they had to introduce their own flanker brands. You know, they had to introduce their own versions of low-cost carriers to compete. They needed separate unions, separate airlines, uh airplanes, um, and to to because they couldn't compete in their core business, and they also didn't want to be mindful of competing in the core business because they needed to also pay attention to the affluent corporate traveler. Um, so they created these, you know, uh, their own version of low-cost airlines. So my uh broader question to you on this topic, and then narrow it to um is like where do you see that in in Europe today as far as the the trends in 2026 on beyond? Are you seeing more downward pressure on prices to focus on low-cost carriers? Are you seeing what we're seeing here a bit more in North America where consumer expectations are increasing and some of the low-cost carriers are adding in some of the perks, and then some of those established carriers are re-adding in some of the things they used to do. You know, where where do you see, I guess, that that marketplace? And then I'd love to ask you a bit about business travel and corporate travel.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah, and and and sure, and I I think we're seeing some of um the uh what you what you talk about. We're certainly seeing the low-cost guys um uh recognizing the importance of connectivity um with some of the um the the uh the the larger network carriers, um whereas once upon a time they completely uh you know you bought you bought your point-to-point ticket on on the low-cost carrier, there was no way of connecting in a in a reasonable way with others. I think they recognise now that is something that that uh that is a business that is important for them to be in. In terms of um uh uh you know what you get as part of the product, it depends so much what you're doing and where you're going. And if you're uh we'll talk about business, but if you want to fly on business, you want to arrive in a in a decent state and it's uh you know it's your job and you you know you don't need to be um maybe like you were with your piano and your and your cigarette in the seventies, but you do need to be in a in a way where you can actually transact some business when you when you get there. Uh and that means a certain amount in terms of product and and food and comfort uh and so on. And and increasingly we see um you know there's some pfft interesting economic times we live in, but there's a lot of people who are increasingly keen to to see premium as a as a leisure thing. Um uh we we sell round the world first. You mentioned going around the world. I will I'm uh if I'm a geek about anything, it's round the world travel now, um, because we sell a lot on online and uh and and through the trade in uh in OneWorld. Um that's an incredibly uh premium product. Uh 75-80% of the people who buy that product are buying uh are travelling in premium cabins. And um uh and I think that's been a sort of fascination thing to a lot of airlines. They've they've they've got this business product, and it turns out actually people just want that product for their for their leisure travel, provided it's special lever leisure travel or it's far enough or it's uh you know it's a s it's the right occasion or whatever. So yeah, I we we see that um that kind of um that kind of mixture playing out, and that's the sign of a good competitive environment, isn't it? We're all trying to adjust the model to get those sweet spots to hit the um hit the customers.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Yeah. Well you uh you raised another really interesting point there too, Roger, about the trade and their their relevance. So uh let's quickly touch on that as well. But just before we do, tell us about the trends as it uh relates to premium and corpor uh I say corporate, but obviously the corporate's business travel. Um and business travel's not always uh business travel itself is not always luxurious and it's not always first class. Um so a lot of business travel is still economy. But um what I want to specifically ask is about the front of the plane, as my dad always used to joke about, like he would used to text me because uh my dad loved he grew up in the dockyards in Portsmouth. I was born in England and he was always a shipman for many years, and he just loved airlines too, and I think that's where my son gets it from. And um he would always say to me, He's like, Oh, are you at the front of the plane? Yeah, and uh I would take pictures and you know the engine would be behind me, and he was like, Oh, glorious, you know. So he was always a uh he always wanted it was it was very much a romance for him to be in first class, and he loved when I was traveling business first class. So tell us about that um that cabin class and how you're seeing that in 2026 and beyond. Is that as important as ever? Um growing in importance? Yeah, tell us about the business of first class travel.

The Future Of Alliances And Biometrics

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Yeah, I it's it's as important as ever. It's it's a really, really key part of what we do. We when you look at our our network um uh from a share point of view, if you look at the the seat share of One World overall, and then look at the share of premium seats, you will generally see a pretty significant jump between those two. We we have some airlines with pretty big um uh premium cabins. Uh we as a as a group we prioritize premium travel um uh and uh and that's a key differentiator for us um uh with the uh uh with the other airlines. And of course everything that goes with it, not just the premium seat, but the the the lounges, the the service, the processes and uh uh and so on. So yeah, absolutely it's uh it's a it's an important thing. And from from what we see it continues to be, although it comes and and goes, what airlines have got very effective at is um is uh well if business is down a little bit, maybe maybe we can play dial leisure up in the premium cabin. Um the the they are very good now at um at selling premium in a variety of ways um of selling upgrades into premium when they can't sell the uh the fares directly, and we want to do a little bit more of that across the alliance uh uh ourselves. So yeah, absolutely premium is a is a core part of of um of business. And you talk about the glamour of um airline travel. Maybe I wouldn't use the word glamour, but there is there is a deep, deep pleasure about um uh flying in in comfort, as as your dad would um would require you to to do, which I think is uh is still very much there, despite the fact everything is much more efficient and costs keep coming down.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Yeah. Well, you mentioned about the upgrades, because there's a company called Plusgrade that I'm sure you're familiar with that you know happens to be based in Montreal, Canada, which is you know a multi-billion dollar organization now, and they've they've got 250 airlines, I guess they work with worldwide, and they've you know they've been very focused on this loyalty space. But the whole concept of their business model from the CEO and founder was this idea of looking at first class and saying, why are these empty seats? You could make revenue off of these, so let's give people the opportunity to bid on them or to and to to just make sure you fill that cabin. And obviously that's been a and that's what I find so interesting about the airline industry is you have companies like that that come along that offer a software as a service and and airlines buy into it. Um and so uh this is where innovation happens in so many different ways within the industry, and that's I guess just wanted to highlight that as um as one example. Now, we've talked a little bit about the European market. Um, I would love to get your take on the global market and then what's ahead for travel in 2026. So when you think about the growth opportunities, and the reason I want, you know, your role is is quite unique uh in this series, and another reason why we wanted to have you as a part of it is that you do have a global view, and you are based in one of the best cities of the world. I do love London, I spent a lot of time in London, and everyone always says like it's it's the best place to be based if you're a traveler, because you can get anywhere in the world from you know, from London Heathrow, you've got multiple airports, so many carriers for Europe and the world. Um, but since you sit in that Greenwich meantime position and have a global view from uh from the UK, um, where do you see the growth opportunities when you look from your vantage point and you look to um Asia Pacific and see all the you know the traveler potential in that market, you look to the US or South America, like where are you seeing the growth? Where are you seeing kind of the big opportunities?

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Yeah. Well, uh uh certainly we're seeing um uh a huge amount of growth potential in the uh in the Far East in Asia and certainly in uh in South America. I mean there there's a uh you know it will be um uh uh it will be like this just because of the the structure of the global economy. You know, we've we've developed um you know a lot of the world is very developed and a lot of the world is still developing and it's that's that's where you see the uh the the the really exciting growth and you see big populations um coming up into that um uh that that that set of people who aspire to uh to to travel. So yeah, those there are the places like that that will um that will drive the uh the the growth going forward. Um there's still growth to come in um uh in i it it across the globe though, and uh and while we need to be uh cognizant of our um uh our sustainability goals, um there is something um which is uh uh uh uh um I'm try not to be self-serving and defending the airline industry, but there is something about um you know the the ability to travel across the world is a uh is an important um uh is an important thing for the future of the world and I would um uh argue away we've got to be able to do it at sustainability but we've also got to recognize that um we're privileged those of us who do a lot of it and and and uh it's a uh it's a wider um uh there are a lot more people out there who who who want that privilege as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Well I was gonna quickly say I I'm I'm glad that you actually mentioned South America. I know I the reason I actually even brought it up is because I was just recently in Chile and uh we were in Patagonia. It was spectacularly beautiful and it's very clear that that area of the world is uh experiencing a a a real tourism boom and there's if anything there's a real concern there just to try and protect the environment as they're building up more accommodation and they need more capacity and we had to take three flights it took me two days and a um uh to get there because of the flight path so um so because it was four flights to get there um and this this the last flight we were on stopped in multiple airports and then we stayed on our flight it just showed you how complex it was to get there as opposed to have in and in the future there'll be more direct routes there'll be more air airports so for sure South America's one to highlight the other thing I just wanted to quickly comment on too is the the one thing you didn't mention I'm sure it's still top of mind but um is the Middle East and one of the things that we certainly saw going back 10 or 15 years as you looked at both Emirates and all the carriers in that region upgrading their fleets we're now seeing that in India of course too but as you saw a lot of those it I mentioned the A380 one of the things that I obviously came to understand and learn especially living in Australia was the importance of you know that region as a hub you know from London via the Middle East en route to um Australia. And that was one of the beautiful things about the A380 was going to reduce the price of travel from Australia to England and you could have these glorious stopovers and a lot of those uh countries invested in these planes because they would become a hub and Dubai being a great example of that. And one of the things I'm seeing now Roger is that most of the investment in that region is in hotels and accommodation because they've they've put the investment into the airlines and now they need to build up their capacity and Saudi is a part of that. But I really like that you mention Asia and South America as two big growth markets because they they they as you said they're still undeveloped relative to population and people's interest in traveling there.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

Yeah. And just if I can come back on the uh the the the Middle East point absolutely uh it's an important growth market and uh to link it back to the conversation we were having about how you bring airlines into the into the alliance. Oman Air is a is another airline that's joined us this year along with uh with with Fiji Airways and um and very much the thinking was this is a very attractive um region um the uh Amman server and a a really interesting set of destinations. Um and they hit that spot of um extending our network, bringing some fantastic destinations into around the world um being a great premium airline and uh yeah I I I I vividly remember the point at which I went down to uh to to to see them to uh we were having the initial conversations about would this work in in the Alliance and I hadn't actually flown them and I walked on board and and sat in a Vaynar seat and uh um the crew are amazing the product is is familiar in some ways but very different in other ways the food service is very different. The imagery that they're showing me on the on the on on the video about where they fly I'm thinking where are these places? These are amazing I've I've never heard of these places and that's you know so that that's the uh that's the premium bit that's the thing you're um yeah you're you're really looking for and if you can find it in a growth market um and it's additive to the network that's such a sweet spot and that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

Yeah no for sure I appreciate your take on that and I just have a couple last questions for you and I really want to get your view looking ahead and you know so let's let's talk about aviation alliances because obviously that was core to um our conversation today and also you know your your role. So one of the things um coming back to that is that the future of these alliances you mentioned up just there about some of the new partners that are coming in how how do you see those model evolving? Is it like deeper integration, you know, shared loyalty we talked a bit about the the uh more or less the digital ecosystems the data and how things get shared. The one of the things I I I uh also wanted you to comment on if you wouldn't mind Roger in this regard, you know, when I brought up the question about um airports and airlines working together one of the things that's very top of mind uh for many of our listeners is biometrics, because we talk about AI and technology, but one of the things you're certainly seeing at airports is a much uh uh more effective use of you know uh facial recognition to be able to both get you um through can through customs um and even actually boarding the aircraft more carriers now or you know you're just scanning your face as opposed to actually having to check your uh the scan your boarding pass, have someone look at your passport like what we accept today as common practice um all of a sudden is is about to change that you just stare at a screen and you enter the plane. So this is where thinking about the future and and aviation alliances, how much of that is um OneWorld for example versus the airlines but yeah tell us a bit about the future of OneWorld Alliance and where you see the model evolving.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Yeah so I I I maybe don't see um massive transformations you know I don't see we're not about we're we're about delivering really smart technology to help our airlines communicate rather than a uh you know a single monolithic um uh uh digital infrastructure on what which underpins the whole alliance and the reason for that is things change all the time you look at the rate at which our our airlines are changing their technology they're responding to all sorts of things so the I think the role for a for alliance in that kind of environment continues to be smart connectivity minimising the effort that each airline needs to do to connect into a single point and then a a hub and spoke model to distribute that out. And we've we've got elements of that we've you know you don't have an alliance unless you have some sort of data share um capability. Increasingly we're we're trying to deliver um uh great processes for the for the customer through that kind of infrastructure so that they can keep their preferred app and do a variety of things and unlock um everyone else's process in a way that they understand and can interpret. So there's there's lots more to come on that which I wouldn't necessarily describe as as necessarily deeper integration so much as really smart integration that that keeps the airline individuality there but but solves a load of complex um translation problems behind the scenes. Loyalty I think loyalty is a very again a a very sort of um airline centric um thing um and and loyalty itself as a as a business can be starkly different you look at the the the kind of financial setup of a loyalty scheme in the US versus one in Australia versus one in Europe. There's some big differences there. So again I don't see I don't think we're in the business of launching a single platform um uh anytime soon but there's so much more to be done to get these schemes talking to each other and make it as easy as possible for you who I'm now taking as a personal challenge to try and entice more into one world now. You've admitted that you uh you actually like some of our airlines uh I want to try and drag you away from uh from where you do a lot of uh a lot of your flight so it's those kind of things that I think we um you will see see more of which is maybe not as exciting as saying there's a big transformation but there's sitting from where I sit there's an awful lot more we we we can do and we need to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah no I appreciate that the one thing I would um one of my uh hopes and takeaways from this series and then I'm keen to get yours and um um and then make sure people can find out more information about one world B2B and B2C but one of the things I just thought I would share that has really come up from our conversation today is um the returning to the joy of air travel because a lot of people certainly complain about you know that's like it's the most challenging part of their trip is the um you know I'd just rather just be there I'd just rather be just transported to the destination. And my son was the one that alerted me this because he said it was his favorite part. You know it's like his favorite part of our our travels is the airports and airlines. And and and and so I'm like how do we actually get more people thinking like that where it's like they're super excited about the carrier they're you know they're and and part of that for sure at least for me is you know um you know when you're traveling business and you have lounge access I mean that is you know the difference between like flying and love flying because you're really looking forward to having had that experience. But yeah so that's one of my hope as a takeaway from this series is that people will kind of re-look at what is uh for some of those people that are road warriors or you know leisure travelers that you know don't see this as part of the uh um the exciting part of travel but actually it is one of the most important parts of the whole experience is how you get there.

Reclaiming The Joy Of Air Travel

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Yeah and I I absolutely and I I we want to do more from uh um making those spaces um uh uh uh great for um for for the for the customer um you know we're relatively late to the lounge um business but we have two One World lounges now and the one in Incheon has just won um uh Asia's best um uh uh business lounge um for for twenty twenty five which is fantastic so we have a lounge in Seoul which is not a home base for for any of our member airlines but a lot of our members fly there um and you can wander into a space which has been designed to kind of take you well I think your son will um will like it. So it's uh there's a bit of um you've got these amazing windows you can look out on the tarmac you see all these aircraft you you you know where you are um you know what's going on but you've got a space that's designed to give you a bit of a break and respite from from from where you're going. And it's this is not a really expensive lounge. This is we've done this in a uh in a way that keeps costs down as as as much as possible. But it gives customers a a a variety of spaces to wander through and maybe take a breath and enjoy. I'm certainly one of these people I maybe do a bit more travel than my family would like um nowadays but there's uh you know I I uh it is for me um a a chunk of the uh the the the pleasure of the job. You are doing something fundamentally pretty remarkable. Um you talk about your dad my dad um went on a plane uh once in his life when I took him on uh on a on a BA flight and he was um he was he was blown away and grew up at a time when um uh you know there were uh you know a lot less planes around and it's uh it's a remarkable thing that airlines are managing to do and all their all their supporters around the uh the ecosystem and um you know wherever you're sitting um uh whatever's going on if you've got a crew member who can empathize with you and you you can look out the window and see see an amazing view it's a it's a special special thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

Yeah no this is I I I really agree. And let let's close off on that because I was uh um I I appreciate you sharing that certainly about your dad and my dad because it it just keeps it puts things in perspective right and um uh so I want to make sure that any of our listeners can find out more about One World whether it be for partners that might be interested in collaborating with you or even also just to make sure customers know where to go if they want to sign up. So tell us Roger what the best ways for people listening to this to be able to engage with Oneworld.

Where To Learn More And Closing Contest Reminder

SPEAKER_00 1:11:51

Yeah if you want if you want information go to oneworld.com um you can you can buy a round the world ticket um I will be very happy to uh to to help you through that process you can um you can see the lounges we offer you can you can understand what you can get for your for your loyalty benefits um and you can increasingly um uh uh uh transact business with us so coming uh early this year uh early sorry early next year in 2026 will be uh uh uh meetings and events product um uh so uh helping travel buyers book and plan events in uh in cities where they're moving fifty plus people maybe a hundred a thousand people into uh into a uh a place for a sales conference or something um and we want to add more tools like that so yeah that's your first first point with our wonderful AI staff tool hopefully you can just accost anyone in an airport and say I don't get this about one world what about this um and that'll of course take uh take a a little bit of time to um to to to to to to come through so um yeah uh those are the the those are the key ways talk to the talk to the amazing teams we've got and um uh and get online.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

Well the one thing I'll just leave our listeners too with is that uh you mentioned about the One World Lounges and the the emphasis there. One of the things that came up for me last year in my travels is some of my colleagues when we were flying One World through Heathrow and connecting uh was the fact that they wanted to go to the gin bar and have a GT which I know Qantas Cathay BA like this is a um a very popular thing that I only just discovered that you can go and have a fantastic gin and tonic and it's one of those things that well it's only if you're traveling with One World and have access to that lounge but it is um it was a really cool experience. So if you find yourself in that situation you have a layover and you have access experience the One World lounges and treat yourself to a gin and tonic. So on that note cheers to you Roger thank you so much for being a part of this and uh I look forward to keeping in touch but yeah thank you for being a part of this series and I look yeah I look forward to future collaborations together.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:52

Thank you. Real pleasure Dan thank you really appreciate what you're doing and uh I'm very happy to be part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:57

Thanks so much for joining us on our latest episode of Travel Trends. I really hope you enjoyed our episode one of our three-part series on aviation featuring Roger Blackburn, the VP of Loyalty and commercial over at OneWorld. Next week we have Patrick Steedman who's the head of disruption over at Hopper and of course we have our contest and I'll be announcing our very first winner on next week's episode. So make sure over the next few days you post a highlight from season six can even be today's episode for that matter a simple call out to say I love the experiences episode with Michael Zeisner. Can't wait for season seven or I really enjoyed the episode with Travis Pittman from Tor Radar. Whatever appealed to you over the course of the season, let us know on the social channels, tag at Travel Trends Podcast, and you'll be entered to win one of three sets of Hayes luggage. Thanks again to the team at Hayes for sponsoring the series definitely be subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when any of these new episodes go live including the spotlight episode featuring the Hayes CEO Mran Shake that'll be going out this week. And of course we post clips and highlights on all our social channels LinkedIn, Instagram and YouTube. So be sure to check that out for clips from today's conversation with Roger and all the upcoming episodes from our aviation series. Thanks again to all of our listeners for supporting our show I'm so excited about 2026. I look forward to seeing many of you on the road we are just sending out our newsletter for the month so you can see all the events that we're going to be attending which you can check out on our website as well travel trends podcast dot com slash events. Until next week safe travels