Luxury Hotel Trends in 2026 with Jonathan Raggett, CEO, Red Carnation Hotels

Luxury travelers are becoming harder to impress, not because they want more “stuff,” but because they expect less friction and more recognition. In the first episode of our Luxury Hotel Series, Jonathan Raggett, CEO of Red Carnation Hotels, joins us to explore the trends shaping luxury hospitality in 2026. From deeper personalization and emotional service to the growing expectation of fast, accurate responses at every guest touchpoint, we discuss how leading luxury hotels are evolving to meet the changing demands of today’s travelers.

We discuss what it takes to deliver truly bespoke hospitality at boutique five star hotels. That includes planning days ahead of arrival, using guest history thoughtfully, working closely with travel advisors, and recognizing that the moment a guest hears “your room is ready” is often the first true moment of trust. Jonathan shares how small but meaningful details and exclusive concierge access can create memories guests talk about for years. He also explains why hotel teams must strike the right balance with generosity in a world where social media makes every perk instantly visible and comparable.

The conversation also turns to leadership and culture. Jonathan explains what exceptional general managers do differently, why leading from the floor is so important, and how Forbes Travel Guide standards align with service that feels genuine rather than scripted. He also discusses the role of Master Inholders, the importance of mentorship and scholarships, and why family owned hotel groups can often move faster than large global brands when decisions need to be made quickly.

Finally, we explore the role of AI in hospitality. The goal is not to replace people but to use technology to improve consistency while protecting what luxury guests value most: a capable human who can solve problems and make them feel truly known. 

Thanks to GuestOS.ai for sponsoring this series!

👉 Luxury Hotel Trends in 2026 Now

🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 7 Title Sponsors for their Support: Bokun, Civitatis, Intrepid, Kaptio, Propellic and Protect Group.

The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. 

https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

Transcript

Welcome And Luxury Series Kickoff

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Travel Trends Season 7 and our first episode of our luxury travel series. This is a series I've been really keen to bring together ever since we started doing the Forbes Travel Guide hospitality series, like we've done over the last two years. And the guest that we have today is particularly special for me is Jonathan Raggett, the CEO of Red Carnation Hotels, who I'm going to bring in in a moment. He's been one of our most popular guests that we've ever had on the podcast. I obviously had the pleasure to work with Jonathan for a number of years, and we're still great friends and stay in touch. And Red Carnation Hotels really leads the way globally as a luxury hotel brand. And having worked with the family over many years, I certainly understand the culture and the way that Jonathan leads this business. I thought he's the perfect example to bring to this conversation to talk about luxury travel in 2026. I've just come back from the Virtuoso conference and sharing some of these really fascinating details on how the ultra-luxury customer is changing and evolving and their expectations, which I know Jonathan and the team are always looking at and adapting to. But I just wanted to quickly acknowledge that we also do have a fantastic sponsor for this series. And I just wanted to uh acknowledge Jesse Fisher and the team over at guestos.ai, which is a multilingual global concierge platform. I've uh been an advisor for them for the last couple of years, and I am a huge advocate for their platform and their technology. And they have gone from strength to strength in the last two years as they've been building out global partnerships. So I would definitely encourage everyone listening to this, including Jonathan and the team, but everyone listening to this to check out guestos.ai to learn more about their AI concierge platform. Now, let's bring in the important guest for today, my good friend and industry leader, Jonathan Raggett. Jonathan, welcome back to Travel Trends.

Jonathan Returns From South Africa

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Dan, thanks having you back again. Uh always a pleasure to spend time with you, and uh I look forward to uh the next hour or so chatting with you and uh sharing ideas and thoughts for 2026. So uh again, great to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Absolutely. And tell everyone where you are today and where you've just arrived from.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Right, yeah. Well, uh my job is wonderful. Um, Recarnation is seized 14 uh hotels around the world, and uh I managed to escape London for most of January and all of February uh to uh three properties out in South Africa. So uh I was on a plane last night, uh travelling back to London, and uh instead of the 5 a.m. sunrises, I had the uh 6:30 arrival of uh dark grey skies. But I like both. Um, but it's fantastic spending time with the teams out there in South Africa, but uh equally good to be back at my home here in London.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Fantastic. No, and obviously London being where you're based and several of the Red Carnation properties. But you're, as you mentioned, South Africa. There's multiple properties in South Africa, uh, in Cape Town specifically, but also one of the most legendary properties that is part of the collection, Ashburg Castle in Ireland and even Geneva as well, that many of our listeners may not be familiar with. And I just do want to encourage anyone that is joining us for this episode to check out the first episode that Jonathan was on because we spent a lot of time going into Red Carnation as a brand and the history, the background, but things have evolved considerably since then. But before we get into the world of luxury travel in 2026, would you mind Jonathan giving everyone a bit of an overview of the global collection of Red Carnation Hotels and a little bit more about the the brand itself and the heritage of RCH?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Sure, of course, Dan. Thank you. So um we're a very small collection. We're we're 14 hotels, and uh we were built uh by a family, um, and we're still owned and managed by a family, but uh the great Stanley Tolman and his wife B set Red Carnation up uh some 40 years ago. So um the collection at the time of me joining, which is 28 years ago, we just had the three hotels, and uh as you mentioned, we've now expanded into uh different parts of the world, and uh we've got our magnificent property, Ashford Castle, on the west uh side of Ireland, which is absolutely amazing. Um, we've got the three hotels in South Africa, we've got the Hotel D'Angleterre, which you alluded to in the Heart of Geneva, a real jewel there too. And uh our hub is London, six great, great hotels here in London, and a lot's happened to those hotels over the last couple of years in terms of investment, uh, not least of all. One of my favourite places now at the Chesterfield Hotel, um, in recognition of uh Mr. Stanley Torham himself. We've set a rooftop terrace there uh for drinks and uh cocktails, and there's a little funny story about Dan actually coming across there some weeks ago, which he may want to cut from this podcast, but I I I enjoyed that moment. Um and then our newest hotel, uh which is now a couple of years, is uh in Edinburgh. Uh so we've got a little property there on 100 Princess Street and the bedrooms and lounge and the restaurant as you look up to the magnificent castle we have there. So we're really a company that uh relies on loyalty, it relies on us doing an exceptional job with service and uh really understanding what luxury means today to ensure that does happen. So we do well, we fight hard, and we really enjoy what we do.

Luxury 2026 Means Personalization

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna go there with that story because I'm glad you actually brought it up. I wasn't otherwise going to, but I think it'll be interesting for our listeners to know a little bit of our background and our overall relationship because yes, I had the greatest respect and affinity working for Stanley and Brett, and of course, Vicky, Mrs. Tolman in particular, would knowing uh I have the privilege of having uh her autograph book, A Life and Food, which many of you are guests are familiar with, and was staying at any Ray Carnation Hotel. One of the things that's special is the menu that she curated, and that goes right back to the start of the story of Stanley and B and their first hotel and her managing the kitchen, him managing the front and how this business came together. And I've told that incredibly inspiring story a number of times in the podcast about Stanley, you know, standing on the upper level and he only had two customers looking across the street at the business that was incredibly lined up around the corner, and his dad telling him to get downstairs and take care of his two customers because tomorrow you have four, next you'll have eight. I loved hearing that story every time. But I cherish the two books I have uh uh signed from each of them, A Lucky Man from uh Mr. Tolman, and then A Life and Food, which I definitely encourage people to uh um to look up, especially if you're staying at Red Carnation Hotels. But as Jonathan mentioned, so whenever I was in London, I stay at the Rubens Hotel. Malcolm has been on the podcast, you know, uh, there's lots of things I want to cover today: leadership, mentorship, the GMs in the in that are part of the group, um, your role at master in holders. There's so much I want to cover today, but this is such a a great place to start because I was across for World Travel Market in November. I had done a main stage session to close out. It was sold out. It was like, it was really fantastic. Jonathan had kindly invited me, knowing my affinity for Stanley and the Tolman family, to meet him for a drink at Stanley's rooftop bar at the Chesterfield. I had not been to the Chesterfield before, except for a meeting. And so I I walked in and the team kindly greeted me and I explained to them I was meeting Jonathan at the rooftop, and they kindly escorted me to the uh elevator. And I went up to the elevator and I got off and I could hear drinks and some commotion, and I was like, oh, what has Jonathan done? What has Jonathan done? As Jonathan, as Jonathan organized all of my friends at TTC to give me a lovely welcome. And so I was actually a little hesitant when I turned the corner and there was two people standing there with drinks, and I um and I so I was trying to see who I recognized. I went and grabbed a drink. I took pictures of the you know the Stanley um uh logo and the welcome. And I walked in and I realized I didn't recognize anyone, and I went to the corner and I was sipping my drink, people were serving hors d'oeuvres, and I messaged Jonathan to say, I arrived early, I'm up here waiting for you. And Jonathan was like, You're at a wake. We you have to go. And I was taking a picture of my glass on the rooftop, and I was like, I was and so you and the team, um, Adam, you guys arrived on the scene and quickly escorted me out, and we had a drink downstairs in the bar. But yes, that was uh you're always early, Jonathan, and I thought I'd make sure I got there and really thought it was a special event. So it was a shocking surprise. I paid my respects. I said to Jonathan, I gave a quick speech, and then I came downstairs. But um, no, that was it, but back to the point of you sharing that. It was really cool to see Stanley's bar and to see the rooftop and to imagine what it looks like in the summertime. So uh an incredible tribute to a remarkable man, and obviously just uh one of several incredible hotels in London. And so yeah, we sat down at the bar, and I think Andrew Raymaker is a good friend of ours. He sent me a message afterwards saying, That's my favorite bar in London. I love it there. And we had a nice gin and tonic at the bar, a cheers, and it was great to see you again. But yeah, tell us so that's uh that's the story there, Jonathan. Uh that I think our listeners might find interesting. But um, and I certainly look forward to seeing you when I'm back across. But let's let's um let's jump into, if you would, with me the the big kind of trends for 2026. I mean, you've just arrived back uh from South Africa and oh actively running all these businesses and seeing specifically uh the developments at Ashford Castle. Tell us a little bit about how that luxury market is evolving in London and how you're seeing those customers change.

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_00 9:51

So I think quite rightly, anybody staying in five-star hotels expects the comfort, expects service, and that's just the norm, and quite right too. I think what's been happening for the last year or two, and it becomes more and more obvious that hotels have to have their acts together going forwards, is this whole personalization, the real understanding of exactly what a guest wants when they're coming to the hotel. It certainly isn't cookie cutter, it's not one shoe fits all, it's about understanding what you can do for that luxury, high net worth guest when they come to your hotel. And I think the whole emotional side now is as much about the whole hotel experience as the emotion that people put into it. And again, I think people now you know have always valued vacation, have always valued time away, but I think patience, again, at the high end is pretty limited. People don't want to cue for things, people don't want to wait for things, they want things to be right, they want things to be there for when they want. And we work a great deal with travel advisors, so it's a lot of our business comes from, and they're great, great friends. You mentioned seeing the each other at Virtuoso and Signature and all of these really, really important consortiers that we work with. And it's our jobs to work with these travel advisors, find out what we can do to make that guest stay special, and then we have to nail it, and we need to really, really understand it. And we can within reason do anything a guest once. You know, if uh they've got children and they want to run onto the famous Premier League football match pitch and they want to kick a football with a professional footballer there, then it's our job to fix it. Um, if they want to go to the British Museum, which is adjacent to one of our properties, and they want to go before it even opens, we must find a curator. We must take the family around so they they get that uh they get that experience. If they've got young children, even older children, they want to go somewhere like Borough Market. It's a great market we've got here in London where all the fish comes in fresh, the fruit, the vegetables. It's a great, great place to go. And the family wants the experience there. We will always find an executive chef, we'll take the family to the market, we'll speak to those producers, um, we'll buy the food with them, we'll come back to the hotel that evening, we'll cook the food so we get the whole 360 there. It's all about uh understanding what the guest wants to do. And we all know today that what you like, Dan, isn't necessarily what I like, and when you multiply that by the number of rooms and people we've got, you've got to be organised. But if I can just say one more thing to that, Dan, we are boutique, we are upscale five-star properties. We're around the 50 bedrooms, some of our hotels are a hundred rooms or so, but we're relatively small compared to these big, big hotels. And I do think that gives us the edge, it gives us a chance to understand who's coming and who's coming back. And we work very, very hard on the guest history, understanding what our guests want when they're with us, but as importantly, as I mentioned, trying to get the information up front to make that happen. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Looking for travel that's purposeful and hassle-free, Intrepid Travel, the world's largest adventure travel company, offers over 900 locally led tours across more than 100 countries on every continent. Every journey is designed to connect travelers deeply with people and places, while they take care of the logistics so your clients can focus on the experience, not the details. With small groups and off-the-beaten path adventures, Intrepid delivers meaningful, immersive, and responsible travel. Explore the world with purpose and ease at IntrepidTravel.com. Propelic is the leading full-service travel marketing agency built for how people discover travel today. We help travel brands grow through SEO, paid media, analytics, and AI-driven visibility across search and generative AI platforms like ChatGPT. Recently named to the Inc. 5000 list of fastest growing companies, Propelic works with leading tour operators, hospitality brands, and destinations worldwide. If your brand cares about demand capture, performance, and winning in the next era of search, Propelic is your partner. Learn more at Propelic.com. Travel has changed. But many multi-day tour operators are still stuck with spreadsheets and disconnected systems. Today's travelers expect more. More choice, more flexibility, more unforgettable moments without the friction. That's where Captio comes in. Built on Salesforce, Captio is a modern platform designed specifically for multi-day tour operators. From tailor-made trips to group tours, from rail to river to cruise, we bring your itineraries, bookings, payments, and operations together in one seamless system. With automation, real-time inventory, and supplier integrations, we make complex travel simple. So you can focus on what you do best. Serve travelers, not spreadsheets. Visit Capteo.com to learn more.

Competing Without Loyalty Points

SPEAKER_02 15:18

And now, back to the show. Looking at the luxury customer that you've been serving for decades now, and given that the art of personalization is important, obviously the motto for Red Carnation Hotels is no request too large, no detail too small, obviously initiated by Mrs. Tolman herself. And I know that is very much throughout the culture because I've heard that reiterated a number of times from GMs and team members within the business. And, you know, it's so it's not only a motto that is out there for marketing, but it's also something that the team clearly lives by and how they handle customer service. So there's interesting elements that are consistent over time in terms of guest experience, especially luxury customers. But the part I'm really keen to understand is that given that's always been a core strength for the business, the business has grown. Obviously, you know, the number of locations that you just highlighted, also, you know, the types of properties you have, like Hotel 41, which is ranked as you know, top hotel in London, uh, most often with uh trip advisor reviews, for example, but also it's not just Forbes Travel Guide. I mean, it's across the board the accolades for the hotels. And but the um the part I'm keen as you expand to places like Edinburgh, um, the new Princess Street Hotel there in Edinburgh, clearly the business is growing and successful, and you are continuing to serve the evolving luxury customer. And knowing that that segment is continuing to grow. I mean, the Virtuoso conference highlighted that the average hotel night for a Virtuoso uh customer is$2,000 a night, US dollars a night. And so, I mean, it is a very different type of customer that you're offering hosting. Um, but yet you also, you know, have a four-star and you have a lot of American travelers that are, you know, at the premium and higher end, but also the ultra luxury. Um, I'm keen to know how you've seen that change. I know when we discussed post-pandemic, you know, the prices obviously increase, inflation's a factor there. Um, there was clearly that whole revenge travel movement, which is, you know, that's been exhausted. Um, and I never particularly like that term, but you continue to see growth. And I would keen to know how the customer is how much is the same and how much has changed in their behavior. Because I'll just finish by saying this, Jonathan. All indications to me are with technology and AI that the human touch is becoming more important than ever, and that people are putting huge value in travel advisors and their recommendations, and to be able to stay at a place like a Red Carnation Hotel where people know your name, remember where that you stayed last time, remembered your interest, know your kids' names, all of those things uh are even more important today than they've ever been. So that's one of the things I think is going to be a great strength for your business today and going forward. So, yeah, keen to get your take on that.

Making Personalization Repeatable

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I agree with what you're saying there. If you take London right now, um the number of new bedrooms that have come into this town is is quite unbelievable. And it isn't just the ultra-luxury five-star hotels, it's the across the board from you know the two-star right up to the five-star. There are thousands and thousands of more guest bedrooms in London today, and there are many, many more planned for both this year and next year. So it is absolutely extraordinary the amount of money that's going into them. And I'd like to say from the outset, without in any way knocking Red Carnation Hotel, we're a great brand with great people, and I reiterate the great people side of it, and perhaps we can just touch on a few of the managers later, Dan. But um, we're we're not competing with the number of the new hotels that have been built in London that are charging two, three thousand pounds per night. That's not what we do. Um, we aren't the sh we haven't got the shiniest new hotels because these hotels have been built from the ground and they're brand, brand new. And they're very comfortable and they're very nice as you would expect. But what they don't have, what they don't have, is the longevity of the teams that we enjoy at Red Carnation that genuinely care, that give hospitality, which is meaningful, and haven't got the number of law guests by any stretch to what we have. And we all know Dan Hugh better than anyone that the best form of recommendation is those staying with you, those coming back, and of course those people telling friends, colleagues, and hopefully even more through social media. And that's our strength. We do not have the clout of a Marriott, a Hilton that has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw at marketing every year. We don't have that. We spend our funds and our people, our training, and uh the that department really is the cornerstone of what we do at Red Carnation Hotels. Get the people side of it right, you make everybody feel special, you make your hotels people's favorites, then you win. That's when the magic really starts to happen. There's no silver bullet. You have to understand it, you have to work hard, you have to empower the teams, everyone needs to understand the goal. And I think the success at Red Carnation Hotels, whilst we we make mistakes, you know, we are anything but perfect, but we work super hard to be as consistent as we possibly can, give our people a chance, and you know, if we make a mistake, it's how you correct it. And I'd rather have a member of my team being themselves and giving expressing themselves and and doing things that make that customer feel really good than having a standards procedure manual which tells them they can only do this, this, and this. I think you have to you have to you have to train, you have to have boundaries, but you've got to trust your team to do the right thing with your guests.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

This is the part that I really want to understand is how you operationalize that personalization at scale. That's something that has stood out to me every time I have the privilege to stay at a Red Carnation Hotel, the team is expecting me, they remember me, and I'm always amazed that uh, and they're clearly doing that with uh all of their customers wherever there is that knowledge available to them. And I know one of the things that you do as a team, because I was speaking to some of your GMs to try to understand how, you know, how did you know that? How did you know that I was coming? Well, we had a team meeting this morning and we went through all the returning guests, and and so tell us a little bit more about how that actually works, because I think that would be interesting for a global audience, especially for the travel advisors listening to this, who clearly you have you know a very strong rapport with, to understand how much time and effort goes into that, because it's not, as you say, about having a loyalty program or getting bonvoy points. You know, it that that those are the points you're scoring every time with the customer. So tell us how you operationalize that from a managerial point of view.

Tiny Noticeable Touches In Action

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Sure. It's interesting you mentioned that word loyalty, because we really believe the word loyalty is making sure you look after your loyal guests and ensuring that. You make them feel special. And should they be coming with a partner? Should they be coming, you know, on their own when they normally come as a single person, you then give an upgrade, you make them feel special. But going back to your question, you don't just wake up on the morning, look at an arrivals list and say, right, this is what's happening. It's about three days out understanding what's coming, even longer, seven days, and knowing the type of room a person wants. You know, if somebody doesn't like the colour red, you make sure you're not putting them in a room that is red. It's that kind of detail. It's going through to see what they enjoyed last time if they've been before. It's calling that travel advisor again, saying, we haven't got the details on that client you've booked with us. Can we please get some more? And it's up to us to to nag, to be a bit squeaky, to try and get the information. Get the time of arrival. Dan, it amazes me how many front offices around the world for hotels seem to train their front office staff to welcome a guest by before two o'clock to their hotel, guest check-in, and then the front office member with a big smile says, Welcome. Our rooms aren't ready till after two o'clock. And it's almost said with joy. We want to know, we do our best to find out what time arrivals that people are coming. I mentioned earlier I was on a flight, landed at a hideously early time. So business coming in from some of the southern hemisphere gets in super early. Know about it, have the room. When a guest arrives, Dan, there's only one thing they want. It's their room, it's their suite. They want to get comfortable. So work hard to do it. And we do. And then you get the stake gets off to a really good start. You know, you can give someone a cappuccino, stick them in the lounge. Who wants that? No one. So it's it's right from the start getting it right. You know, we've got a procedure now when people arrive at the front, we've got doormen who are signalling to the reception or a voice to let you know who that guest is. So you arrive at the front desk and we use your name immediately. People love the sound of their own name, it makes people feel important. So again, it's it's all these little points that that matter. And we have something which I think I mentioned on the on the previous pod, but we have an acronym called TNT, which stands for our tiny noticeable touches. And what we do here is that we again we try and find out what a person likes, and then at small cost, we're not looking to you know spend thousands here, it's small cost. We we put something together which is meaningful for that particular guest.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Well, and I guess this is where those memorable moments, I know I also shared a great example of that, that my father, when I was with the Travel Corporation, and obviously we've kept in touch, and I continue to stay at Red Carnation Hotels whenever I'm in London. I love seeing you, I love seeing the team, and obviously I love the experience because I have a great affinity for the brand and heritage and my connection to it. And I had the privilege to have my father stay at the milestone uh for two nights when he came across to visit his sister, because my family's all English, of course, and he was visiting his sister in Portsmouth, as I would always do when I came across. And he actually uh when I he loved his whole experience, the team was fantastic to him. He felt he just uh he was glowing afterwards and just he had the afternoon tea, and it was just like uh you know the proper British experience, and he absolutely loved it. And when I was cleaning out uh his house, because obviously that's the connection to the background of this podcast, is that my father passed away. I stepped away from my role and I took care of him, and I'm so glad that I did. But when I was um cleaning out his house and his uh desk, I found the notepad from the Milestone Hotel. And um clearly he brought that with him to kind of savor that experience. Um, and had made notes on it. And I just thought that was a it was a um, I was just glad he had that experience um uh in this lifetime. And I was like, that was uh so clearly that was a memorable moment for him. It's a memorable moment for me. How do you actually ensure those memorable moments are created? You obviously shared at just the beginning of the uh discussion that you could, you know, there's some remarkable things that you're able to pull off with the concierge team, given relationships you have in London. But those tiny noticeable touches, how do you go about making sure that wherever possible you can create those memorable experiences? And how over and above can you go? Because I I would love to hear, and I'm sure it's gonna become expectation now that everyone's gonna go to a Premier League game and kick a ball on the field now that they've heard you say it. But you'll start seeing that in the notes of the booking. I heard this on the podcast, and I also uh bend it like Beckham when I'm in London. So uh yeah, tell me, tell us a little bit more about how that comes to life.

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Again, it's getting the information up front where you can, because then it gives you time to organize things. But if it's not got beforehand, you know, we have concierge teams, we have guest relations, we also have general managers, again, with small hotels that are there welcoming guests, seeing guests throughout their stay. And it's about asking what more we can do for a guest. And I guess, you know, some guests want to just do their own thing, but we do find the majority of guests they want support, they want help, they want to enjoy wherever they are. I mean, somewhere like Ashford Castle is very easy, it's got 35 outdoor activities that people can enjoy from horse rising to fishing to falconry. I mean, there is masses to go on there that uh people can do. So those those aren't, I mean, they are extraordinary experiences, but everybody can do them. What I find in cities like Edinburgh, Geneva, London, it's finding something you can only get through staying at one of our hotels. I think that's when the magic really starts to work. And a couple of weeks ago we have right next to the Rubens Hotel on 41, the show Wicked, which has again it's uh become very popular again. As we know, it's been in the news, etc. And uh we had again a a a guest staying with us, and he wanted for his daughter for her to be sport rotten. And these things do come with costs because we need to pay to get them done, but it's about making them happen. So we got about half the cast from Wicked to come to the hotel before the show. And we did various things for this little lady and her family, and they came through and the rest of it. She then went to the show and actually got onto stage for the thing. I mean, she wasn't at the front of the stage, but she had the costume, etc. And she was actually in that production that evening having met them. And we can do that. I think again, it's about caring, it's about wanting to do it, because again, you've got that desire, and this only stems when you work for a company that will afford you the time and effort to make that happen. Because I'm sure an accountant would say, I'm not sure I'm seeing an immediate return on that investment by doing such things. But Dan, you're a marketeer, you're a man that understands the long tail. And I can't put a price on how many people, family, etc., people we're talking about experience for years to come. And if you multiply that by 10, 10, 10, and done, we we're doing this each and every day. And it's it does work because to your point, we then have people coming back saying, oh, uh such and such did this, we want to do it as well. We get a lot of that, and of course, we we do make that happen. Um, you know, we need to be a bit careful as well. I mean when we have uh guests coming to celebrate an anniversary, we have those staying in suites spending thousands of pounds, and then nothing wrong with it at all. We love every single guest, but we have the guest that's on you know uh a regular room. So we need to be careful because today in this world of transparency, if you're spending a lot of money in the suite and it's your anniversary, we're gonna give you a bottle of Dom Perrion or similar because again, it equates to the price. And I had a guest some months ago who stayed with us, and we gave them a very nice bottle of champagne. I think it was a bottle of Moe from thing, and of course they were unhappy with it because they'd seen on social media other people having Dom Perrion. So you've gotta you've gotta kind of balance this a bit, and and every bit of penny and monies you get is important, so but you have to make sure that does work. But I think to answer the question, is we love challenges. The team stroke myself, uh, never happier making a stay uh at one of our hotels special. And again, being in these remarkable cities that we live in, there really is great opportunity to do most things to make that happen. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

In the world of travel, you bring the wow, those extraordinary scroll stopping experiences that travelers never forget. And BOCUN, they bring the how. As a trip advisor company and the number one booking system across major OTAs, Bokoon is the complete booking and channel management solution for extraordinary experiences. From an intuitive website builder to synced availability, Bokoon handles the code so you can focus on the guest. Plus, scale your business through Bokoon's marketplace, over 2,600 OTAs and resellers. Are you ready to grow without the growing pains? Visit Bokoon.io today to start your free 14-day trial. Did you know that over 20% of people who purchase a ticket upgrade to a refundable option when given the choice? By offering Refund Protect, you make it easy for your customers to protect their ticket purchase against emergency circumstances including illness, injury, accidents, and more. Whether you're an airline, hotel group, tour operator, ticketing platform, OTA, or transport solution, when you partner with Protect Group, your customers get peace of mind and you generate extra revenue. With a trust pilot score of 4.8 stars and over 31,000 reviews, we treat your customers as our own, earning the highest customer ratings in the industry. To find out more, check out the Protect Group website at Protect.group slash travel trends. In a world of endless travel options, how do you guarantee quality? The answer is curation, and it's the core of Civitadas, the leading marketplace for global tours and activities. Instead of just more options, their promise is more quality. Their experts handpick the best from over 90,000 activities in 4,000 destinations worldwide, ensuring every tour meets the highest standards of quality, availability, and price. They focus this winning strategy on capturing the world's fastest growing customer market, travelers from Latin America. By connecting these travelers to their global portfolio of experiences in native Spanish or Portuguese, Civitatus creates the powerful customer loyalty your business can count on. Their model is a proven formula for generating massive demand and driving industry-leading conversion. For the travel trade, the message is clear. Partnering with Civitatus is your strategy for capturing the massive outbound Latin American market and turning their growth into your revenue. Visit Civitatus.com for more details.

Forbes Travel Guide Standards

SPEAKER_02 33:13

And now, back to the show. Well, now let's talk about how Red Carnation compares in the industry, because knowing that background, I think, is very interesting for our listeners. And obviously, having that affinity for the brand is one thing. It's another thing for me to be sitting at the Forbes Travel Guide Conference in Las Vegas. They brought us in. It was the start of travel trends being at many events around the world where we get brought in to record spotlight episodes. And that was the first one that we had been brought in to do a little over two years ago. And I had a chance to interview Matthew Upchurch, and we had some, and I got a chance to interview Malcolm Hendry. So Malcolm Hendry suddenly appears. I didn't know Malcolm was going to be there. I, of course, quickly realized that he has advocating it was amazing to get his story. He's been on the podcast now twice. So if you look listen to the Forbes Travel Guide hospitality series that we did, you'll see that he was in series one. And then I was delighted to bring him back for a second episode because it was such an interesting conversation. And for me, I found it so incredibly insightful to understand, even though I had knew Malcolm and would see him regularly throughout the year, the journey that he was on to advocate, advocate to you to become a Forbes travel guide, five-star ranked property, the reasons why he thought that was important, both internally, the culture was very much aligned already to what's needed to achieve that status. You obviously endorsed it. He didn't quite make it the first year, but he was very determined. He got four star. Then they got five star. And you've expanded that across the group. And so I think it's a really worthwhile to listen to. But what stood out for me, Jonathan, was the fact that across your industry peers. Here is Malcolm as a captain of industry, leading by example at the Forbes Travel Guide event, being one of the VIPs that they selected the people that I was going to be interviewing. I had interviewed additional people as well to get more of a broad uh spectrum of the entire types of people that come to those events, including suppliers and partners, but they had selected some of the high-profile hoteliers, and Malcolm was one of them. And Red Carnation continued to come up. So even amongst, you know, shoulder to shoulder with your peers, you guys are often, you know, um uh head ahead above, and I think and you're looked at across the industry. And that to me gave me a whole new profound respect for Red Carnation hotels and what you, the team and the family, have achieved. So tell me a little bit about the Forbes travel guide recognition from your vantage point, and then tell me too, because I only we haven't caught up since I saw that you've expanded that and so you've got more hotels that have been recognized. So tell us tell us a little bit more about Forbes Travel Guide and your journey there.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Yeah, I think what I said about the Forbes Travel Guide is I believe the standards that they set to become a five-star member resonate with me. I think they're exactly what I expect our hotels and any good hotelier to run. So whilst we're part of it, it's done quite easily because it's much more about the emotion, Dan. It's much more about the way you deliver the service. It isn't entirely about the comfort. You have to be at certain comfort, but you it's whilst we all like to be using our guest names, while we all like it's it's it's being done in the right way. It's it's being answering questions the right way. If if you you have to use certain language to get through the Forbes uh thing. One of the most boring questions I find is when you ask a guest how was their trip to get to your hotel. It's it's dull. Uh, getting to the hotel, most people uh will be overseas guests coming into London. It's a dull question. We know travel's not easy, we all know it's exhausting. People actually don't really want to answer it uh and speak about it too much. They're there for the they're there to do stuff. So actually, with the this is one example, if you ask that question, if that question is asked twice, which often it can be at the front door, the doorman, the concierge, the front office, I mean there's a whole plethora of people that come. If you ask that question twice, it's a fail on a certain standards. And I couldn't agree more. I don't want to be asking how the trick was. I take it you're here, and we now you you're in into the our family, and we want to make that happen. So to me, um, I'm really proud that we have a number of our properties that are five-star four, but more importantly, it's about the standards that they uphold, which very much resonate with what I want Red Carnation hotels to be. So it's kind of a natural thing. Um, it does. I mean, some advisors know about it, so it's good that you know it's a stamp that says, yeah, it must be a great hotel to have five-star. But I also think it's great for the team as well. You know, the teams are passionate about having the five-star. So it's a win-win. But I think, you know, the main thing about the the Forbes is that the standards they have created are really the Red Carnation standards. So I push, push, push, not because I'm necessarily wanting the badge. I believe it's the right thing for our customer, I'd guess, because that's what they want today.

What Great GMs Actually Do

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, the other thing that stood out to me being at the Forbes Travel Guide conference is the importance of GMs. And what one of the things that also was highlighted to me from a colleague that was there was the fact that many people come to the Forbes Travel Guide event because they're looking for their next big opportunity. And so they're there. And and GMs move from hotel to hotel. And I I that's something I came to understand as well, having been back the following year, because I was like, wait a second, I interviewed you last year. Now you've you've just won five star with a new hotel brand. Um, Malcolm, of course, was still with the same. So I I uh that and that this is part of what I want to get uh understand from your perspective. But one of the things also that uh for those of you who are listening to season one, the part that I didn't realize is that every person I was interviewing was going to win an award the following night because they'd give me the list of people they wanted me to interview, and the fix was in, obviously. So the next night I wish I'd place bets because I literally had the winning list. I was like, wait a second, I interviewed him, I interviewed him, they're all going up, they're all going up. These are all the people that I interviewed. So I should have I should have seen it coming. Uh but when you look at GMs, uh, you know, I've know quite a few of them across the organization when I've stayed at different hotels, and there is a consistent level of expertise, and most of them have been with you for 20 years or more. They have great affinity, not only for the brand, but for you specifically, Jonathan. So tell us a little bit about some of the GMs in the group. Obviously, we've highlighted Malcolm for all the right reasons, and people can listen to those uh those interviews for sure, because I'm sure a lot of other GMs can learn a lot from hearing from Malcolm. But what would you say makes a great GM and what's been so key to retaining such a strong group of GMs over time?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Well, for me, a great GM is a GM that is on the floor, a GM who's actually in the lobby area, who can be seen in the breakfast room, who's around in the evening and is tangible. Um, I think you know, some hotel companies now they want to sit their managers in offices to produce reports and pick up reports on business and you know the costs, etc. And whilst they're a very, very important part of the business, um, I believe you can employ people to do that. So certainly in Red Carnation Hotels, the manager's got to understand it, they've got to have that information. But I value their time actually with the guests and their teams leading from the front. Um, and where possible, Dan, we will employ from within wherever we can. Um, you're quite right. A lot of our managers have been there for many years, which is good and bad, I think mainly good, but one of the bad sides is you do create a bit of a funnel, which which at the top doesn't work because a good number two has only so much patience, and if they're not seeing the manager go, of course they can go. But I encourage that. Look, if they've been with us a number of years, I'll do my best to find them something perhaps outside of Red Carnation, in the hope that should a vacancy then become available one day, I can grab them back. But we do have uh huge, huge loyalty and tenure from so many of our managers, but occasionally we need to look outside. We've just got a brand new manager at the Hotel d'Angleterre. Um, I didn't have anybody that had the experience for that market and as importantly, spoke French. So we brought in, you know, a high flyer there, uh Jeremy, who's taken that over. But I believe one of the successes of my management style with the managers is empowering them, is trusting them and letting them know what I stroke the family wants. So again, I may have said this before, but I I work really hard every 12 weeks to ensure that we have a one-to-one where I will set objectives that I want happening, as importantly, they'll give me what they're doing. It'll be a check-in to make sure we're both going in the right direction here, and then 12 weeks down the line, we take the notes, we take the minutes, we make sure things have been achieved that we said would be, and if not, why? And I don't have to wait 12 weeks. If after six weeks a manager's struggling, let me know. But I think that guidance means we all know what's going on. The problem with hotels, and I love this, but it is a problem, is that at the end of the day, every day a manager stroke myself to will write a list of 20 things you need to do tomorrow. But in this business, you are tomorrow arrives and another 10 things arrive on the list, and you've got the 20 from last night, and then it's prioritizing. And if you're not careful, you don't get the right things done. So I think direction is important, and um if we know a manager will then know if they're achieving the objectives as well as the million other things they need to do as a manager, then they feel confident, they feel good about themselves, they they know they're doing the right thing, and confidence, of course, that breathes throughout the team. So I think if a manager were asked, you know, what is Jonathan's style, I don't need to speak to a manager every day. In fact, some of them maybe just once a week. They know I'm there if if they want me, but they also know the direction, they also know what's ones hit, and and and that really counts.

Master Inholders And Mentorship

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Well, one of the things that you're involved in is the master in holders. And I think this is important too, because the general managers you select, uh, whether you're out recruiting in the case of uh Jeremy, or continue to bring excellence within the organization by understanding what excellence looks like in the industry. It was one of the things that I found so fascinating when you kindly asked me to speak at the Master Inholders Conference. First of all, I didn't know it existed, and then the secret key of this guild that exists that was like this whole like uh Harry Potter universe that I had walked into that uh that existed for hundreds of years, uh, that your great grandfather uh was a master. In key holder. And so that I would love her if you wouldn't mind, because when you kindly asked me to speak there and you checked with Brett, and Brett said, Yeah, go for it. I loved having that experience because it opened my eyes to another whole other aspect to the hospitality industry, the fact that I see you in one lens uh as a leader of Red Carnation Hotels. I then got to see you in another vantage point on stage amongst the community that you know there's a thousand people at this event. This is a massive event, huge organization, great prestige. And it was a real honor to speak on stage and also meet your friend Wayne, who runs world-class managers. And so to be a part of that was uh you know a terrific experience for me. But I'd love for our listeners just to understand the master inholders of what that actually is, and then also your kind of view on mentorship and uh sustaining excellence through industry leadership.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

So, I mean, the inholders quickly, I won't speak too much about it. If people are interested, they can obviously find online. But there are in holders of all businesses, and this all dates back centuries ago. Um, and there's a hotel um in holders, there's farmers' inholders, there's this. There are there are I think 60 different in holders that are in the city of London, of which hotel keeping is one. And what I like about it is um the function of an inholder, a master and holder, is to give young people in the industry an opportunity to progress. So I do that a lot within Red Carnation Hotels, and I'm blessed again to work for a family that cares and does really well through it. But not everybody has that chance. So the master in holders, we have the conference that you spoke so brilliantly at uh some years ago, Dan. Genuinely, it was a fantastic keynote you did. But we we host this conference and we'll make you know a good amount of monies from the conference. All of that monies are then used for scholarships for young people to go and you know make themselves better, learn more, and hopefully get them up the ladder to where they want to go. We do mentorship. I think that's sometimes underrated. That uh whilst young people today people will say they've got confidence and they'll want to do it their own way. I think a mentor and mentee relationship can be fantastic both ways. I I mentor outside of Red Carnation Hotels a couple of people, and I get a lot from it, and uh vice versa, I hope. Uh you know, the pressures on the mentee to come to the mentor for what they want. But I enjoy that, and I guess having been in this business now for more than 40 years, one of the great things about the business is seeing people grow and develop and people that are coming through it. You know, just I I get a bit disenchanted when people say, well, you know, young people don't care as much as older people don't want to work as hard, they value time off rather than the work. I think it's nonsense. I think again, you just need to understand what a younger person wants to do. I think the confidence that a younger person has today is far greater than I had. I I get involved in interviewing for some of our positions, and one of those is our management program that we run, and it's a very successful management program. But when I went for mine some 40 plus years ago, I was saying yes, sir, no, sir, just whatever it takes, sir. Today I'll have somebody asking, what's in it for me? What can I get from it? And use the right way, it's fantastic to see that confidence. So again, the mastery and holders make sure that you don't have someone that's too overconfident when you're doing that, but has the confidence to move on. So it's those type of things that we do. As you say, it's it's you have to be being a general manager for X number of years to be a master in holder. But one thing just to finish on this, Dan, is that the great thing about hotel keeping is that many of my best friends are managers of other hotels, and we get on really well and we'll meet irregularly, but we'll always be there for one another for a quick question, let them know what we can, have a quick coffee. And I find that interesting because I've got friends that are in other industries, be it the banking, be it the insurance, be it, all of the others, and they never speak to each other. It it's all closed book. In fact, no one would ever be a friend or rarely be a friend. I think in the world of hotels, we take it, there's enough fish in the sea, if we use that analogy for everybody, and it's up to you to know what you're selling to, your client, and to do well. So that friendship within the master and holder, that respect within the master and holder is also gives really good energy.

Family-Owned Speed In A Consolidated Market

SPEAKER_02 48:36

For sure, it definitely does. And that was certainly my experience. And I think one of the things also that stood out to me is that when you're surrounded by your peers, obviously you're sharing best practices, you're seeing what's happening in the industry, and you get a level set of where you're positioned against the competition, so that you're always making sure that you're aware of the fact you need to continue to keep up and innovate. So, on that exact note is where I'd like to uh discuss something that we didn't have a chance to cover last time, which is the competitive landscape. And I uh teased Jonathan at the end of the conversation because we did a trivia question and I asked him about the competition, he didn't get the question right. And he said, as Mr. Tolman told me, don't focus on the competition. And he was like, exactly right, focus on the customer. But the reality is there is competition, and the customers today have more choices than ever. But one of the things that's certainly been happening in the industry is been a huge amount of consolidation, and especially in the luxury category, because there's been so much interest and growth, and therefore a desire for acquisitions and consolidation. And so many of these larger brands, like a core group, they own a whole portfolio of properties that many people may not even know that are part of the collection. And I'll give our listeners one example that I think many of our uh regular listeners would have uh enjoyed the episode with the CEO of Citizen M. And Citizen M is, of course, not a luxury brand, but it's a boutique brand. And there's been a huge growth in the boutique category. If you look at people like Scott Galloway, one of my favorite podcasters, he exclusively stays at boutique hotels. And you look at companies like Mr. and Mrs. Smith who've been acquired, you look at the leading hotels of the world, there's there is something to be said for independent family-run groups versus the large-scale global brands and what happens after they're acquired and how things change. And so, my question to you, and given that you see this both with other family-run businesses and larger groups coming in, who's better to deliver on luxury? And if you wouldn't mind, kind of give us an uh an idea of where you see Red Carnation sitting within the competitive landscape against the fam other family-owned businesses versus these large uh global brands. And the last thing I would say on that is that one of the things that Leonard had pointed out to me that I found really interesting is that he highlighted just how powerful the Marriott Bonvoy program is as he was starting to go through the integration process and uh speaking about Citizen M hotels, he realized that there's certain groups of people that just would never stay at a hotel where they couldn't earn Marriott Bonvoy points. And I'm not, obviously, that's not your customer, but it's clearly there's a large customer set out there that all of a sudden that brought more people to Citizen M hotels. So there clearly are advantages to consolidation, there's advantages being part of a large group. Um, but tell us how you view the competitive landscape.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah, and you're right on that whole points thing. We definitely lose customers because we don't have a points loyalty scheme. The only thing I would say to that, Dan, is that um I know a lot of people get quite upset with those points because they can't use them when they want, they're not available, so they have to be used the right way, but we don't do them. Um so go going back to your um to your question, I think what we have to do, which potentially a much larger company can't do, is make decisions quickly. So basically, in my role as CEO, I report to a family, namely Brett Tolman and and Vicky Tolman. So I have access to them literally every single day. I can call them, email them, do whatever, and I can get a decision from them immediately. I believe it's then my job once you've got the decision and the green light to make it happen. And I've got friends already spoken about knowing a lot of people in this industry that are very envious of that. They'll say to me, Oh my goodness, that would have taken me six months to get a decision through my company on that particular subject. So I wake up every morning wanting to make sure that once we get a decision to do something, we jolly well get it done. Um, you know, nothing frustrates me more than people talking about something, being in a meeting, and then some weeks later, and sometimes even worse, months later, nothing's happened. So I think one of the joys, private family, uh invested in the business, getting decisions, and then making that happen definitely gives us edge. Uh, I really do. But you have to make that happen. Um, so that's definitely, you know, and and the analogy there again is I want to be that speedboat that can turn in the water quickly. I don't want to those big, big cruise fires that takes forever. So I think that's one big thing we can do at Red Carnation. I think again, we're family-owned and we we we don't report to stakeholders. We're of course a business, Dan, that needs to make money, otherwise, you're not a business. But it's not about making as much money as you can in one year. There's a much longer goal to this. And again, you spoke about companies being sold. I, for one, in the business, don't know always who owns what. But I think, again, we are here for the long term. There is no vision whatsoever to be selling Red Carnation hotels. I get offers through my offers to give to the family, they do not want to sell. And I think having that stability, having the factor that, yeah, we'll make our budgets, we'll make money, but we're not taking every single penny out of the business makes a difference. And just to add to that, is that right now, and this is like the most amazing position I could possibly be in, is that every single piece of profit that Red Carnation has made for the last few years and onwards goes back into the business. Nothing is being taken from the family at all. So, how lucky am I? The harder I work, the harder our managers work, the more money we get to put back into our business. But not just the business, Dan. We've spoken about a bit on this podcast, putting it back into our people, making sure they clearly are paid fairly, everyone needs to be paid fairly, but not just the pay. What are we doing to invest in their training? What are we doing to invest in their education? What are we doing to make each person in our business the very best we can be? And again, all that whole makeup makes for a company that is all pushing the same way.

Borrowing Ideas From Other Brands

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Yeah, you had kindly shared that with me when I saw you in November, and I was delighted to hear that because building on already a great company culture that is renowned for having these incredible Christmas parties in the new year that I never had the privilege to attend, but I'd always hear these amazing stories about the Red Carnation Christmas party. You bring everyone in from all over the world and have this fantastic gathering that really brings people together, connects the culture, and gives people a wonderful experience because they're always on the other end of giving great service. So this is a time to celebrate them and what they they've accomplished over the course of the year. So that was always very special to hear about and understand. I was thrilled to hear for them, having known so many people in the business over the years, um, that that was the case. But one other thing I wanted to ask you about on this topic is, you know, when you look at the competitive landscape, and I know you're friends with Danny Meyer, for example. Danny Meyer, of course, the New York restauranteur who runs Union Square Hospitality Group. And he is, you know, often speaking on stage, and people, you know, he's written books. You know, he's uh for those of you who are not familiar with Danny Meyer, probably the most famous business that he owns is Shake Shack. And one of his lines there was don't fight the line, because Shake Shack was always lined up. It's like let the line happen because that draws a crowd. And I know you've drawn inspiration from him. So my question to you, Jonathan, is that when you look in the hotel landscape, whether it be family-owned businesses or even some of those larger scale, what brands do you admire? Who do you look to for inspiration?

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Dan, I think there's not one brand I'd be out there saying I want to be them. But what I do is I steal. I think stealing can be good. So I steal ideas. I'm on the social media platforms for the for the luxury hotels. I look at their websites, I look in, I check, I look at the experiences. So I think my job is taking the very best bits out of some of these luxury brands, as opposed to admiring and just following. And yeah, I do steal. I encourage my team to steal. But you know, nothing, it's such a transparent world we're in now. So let's see what other people are doing. If it fits what we're doing, why can't we take it? Why can't we make it even better than they're doing?

AI Tools With A Human Core

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Yeah, one of my favorite screenwriters, Paul Thomas Anderson, who's famous for many great movies, including Magnolia and others. And he was recently at the Golden Globes and highlighted the fact that he just sees himself as a magpie and a magpie that takes a little bit from here and a little bit from there. And that's how he builds these great scripts. And he gave good examples of that, the people that he's taken lines from. And I love that he owned it, and because you know, he he deserved the accolade for his screenwriting, but actually he recognizes the community that he surrounds himself with and being able to absorb and take little pieces. So that's certainly for me what stood out about your leadership style. And so, you know, for me, I'm often looking at who are the great leaders in the hospitality, who are the great brands. Uh, recently had the privilege, as I was mentioning just before we started recording, of staying at the Peninsula Hotel in New York City, which was absolutely extraordinary. I was there for a conference in January, and the conference was the Trav Media Conference, and I had this opportunity to have a wellness weekend in New York with my wife, and it was extraordinary staying at that hotel. It gave me so many great memories of staying at Red Carnation Hotels because I could start to pick up on wait a second, yeah. Someone, the most important thing, and I is those four magic words, your room is ready. And someone came out to meet me. They knew I was arriving, they brought us to the room, they showed us how everything works, they made sure we were comfortable, had enough water, like it was just this is staying in New York City. It was a gorgeous room, and we were very well taken care of. And I definitely couldn't go back to the Hyatt place I was staying at the few nights before, after that. My wife was delighted because that room only fit a bed and we couldn't even unpack our clothes. So she was just thrilled when we moved to an executive suite at the peninsula. And I now I can't wait to stay at other peninsula hotels and other places around the world because I've now developed a real appreciation for the brand. So for me, I'm definitely continuing to look for inspiration in the hospitality space. And over the course of this series, kicking off, of course, with you, Jonathan, most importantly, uh, I'm looking forward to having these additional conversations about how the hospitality and luxury space is evolving. So maybe let's get come back to that. And one last topic I'd love to discuss with you is where this conversation started with the future of luxury hospitality in 2026 and beyond. So tell us from your vantage point whether it comes to technology. I know it's always been important, but at the same time, you've not been really focused on having an app. Like, you know, the high-touch service is incredibly important. Where do you see technology innovation? What's your view on responsible tourism? I know that's something that's been incredibly important to the brand for many years. So tell us where you see this industry headed in 2026 and beyond.

Advice For Future Hotel Leaders

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Well, I think AI, which obviously is the buzzword out there, is important. We're certainly utilizing it a lot in Red Carnation hotels. We do now have an app, actually, Dan. So when you come in May to stay at Red Carnation, you'll uh be getting that. So, you know, we are using it. We can't sort of think that nobody wants it. That's we've got to listen to what customers and where the world is. But I think moving forwards, luxury is going to be about people, it is going to be about being able to speak to a human being, it is about having somebody you can go to and get an immediate answer. But that's not ignoring AI. It's it's it's it's take care. We use it an awful lot, and anybody that doesn't use it within our business will get left behind. But we will continue to make sure we've got the very best people at our hotels, they give the very best service, the very best hospitality, and our jobs is to do our very best to make sure those people want to come back to us.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

And with just a few closing questions. The advice you would give to aspiring hotel leaders that are looking to build world-class properties, what advice would you like to share with them as a takeaway to this discussion?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

I think the it there's a saying, isn't there, which says fish stinks from the head. And if you want to be in this business, you've got to have ownership that don't just talk it but absolutely believe in it. So my advice to anybody owning a one hotel or many, many hotels is what you say, make sure you do, make sure you're consistent with it, and always remember the guest is the most important person that you need to make sure. And you can only do that if you've got the best team that know what they're doing and are motivated. If you don't get that right, in my opinion, you're not going to be truly successful.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

Yeah. And one last question for you, because I think it came across in this podcast to many of our listeners and does every time I see you. And it was one thing I was particularly delighted when we had breakfast together, because what uh when Jonathan, we see each other, we'd see each other for porridge in the morning. That was always kind of our thing. We'd just meet for uh whenever I was in London, we just make sure that we made time for each other and have a porridge in the morning, have a catch-up. Um, and that was enough. Like Jonathan is one of those people that charges my batteries. There's people that drain your batteries, there's people that charge your batteries. Jonathan is definitely a person that charges my batteries, and it's always like a delight to see him because there's a reciprocal energy in the conversation. And then again, that was another reason I wanted to have you back in season seven with how the travel trends has grown to all of our global listeners now. Like, I think when we had our first had our conversation, we had listeners in about 25, 30 countries, and we now have listeners in 125 countries. We've become the number one B2B podcast globally, and it's because of relationships like this, conversations that are incredibly valuable to our listeners, and it's about relationships ultimately. And so for me, when I see you, I'm obviously thrilled to catch up. But what I was also amazed about when I saw you last time is your continued energy, positivity, enthusiasm for the industry, you know, that you uh exemplified through COVID and some of the things we talked about in the last podcast, is just how challenging a time that was for all of your team members, uh, and how you managed to retain people, but also what the GMs had to do to keep the pipes turned on and be in the properties and just, you know, the things that people wouldn't otherwise think about, uh, but was necessary to navigate that time. And you've always been able to kind of navigate these challenges with, you know, a great deal of diplomacy, but also just uh a joyfulness that I um really respect and admire. So I want to finish on that question because given you are continue to lead in this space, what excites you most about the future of luxury hospitality? What keeps you motivated?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

I like the competition, I think, Dan. I've spoken about all the new hotels that have come into London, Edinburgh, new ones into Ireland, just coming back from South Africa. There are new hotels opening, and um, I'm brutally competitive. I love that. So I think the fact that I want to be better than everyone else in terms of what we do definitely, definitely fulfills me. And thank you for the kind words about my energy. Absolutely, you can't run things without it. And I stole, I read actually, I know you're a great reader too, and I try and read business books, I think, far better than watching too many uh television news programs or uh or newspapers. I try and read a couple of business books at least a year, and and hopefully a bit more. But I read a few years back, which I kept, is that a great leader needs to have four qualities beginning with the letter E. And I always ask this to my teams, my managers, the staff. Now you can think of a lot of words beginning with E that would fit. But these four E's, and I I can't remember the author, but I'm sure it's easy to find, said, and I really believe this that a great leader has to have energy, they need to be able to energize, they need to have edge, they need to be a bit different. I spoke about managers being in the lobby, being seen. You've got to have something about you. And then my final E, which is the one I like the most, is a great manager needs to execute. So I think those four E's I live with, I breathe, and I want everyone in my team to have.

Charity Cycling And Mental Wellbeing

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, one thing I want to point out, because I clearly that is the underlying driver in your um uh in your continued motivation and ambition. And so it's interesting to hear that because uh clearly you are competitive. And one of the reasons that I know that is because you're such an average cyclist. And for those of you are listeners that have actually been watching this podcast, because of in season seven, we're moving to more uh videos as well on our YouTube channel and all the streaming platforms and clips. So if you're watching this on video, you have to look behind Jonathan and you will see a cycling journey because this is a man who rides his bike to work every day. He's incredibly fit, but he also competes and he raises money, continuously raising money. That's something we haven't even touched on, Jonathan, but your uh desire to give back, then not only as a mentor, but also for important causes. And I know you've ridden for a number of them and and raised funds for a number of important causes, but the jersey, tell everyone just in closing about the journey uh the jersey behind you and the fact that you actually did the equivalent of the Tour de France. You rode the Tour de France. In the tournament. That's very important. And uh you didn't you weren't just going luxury to hotel, luxury hotel.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

No, you're right. I think again you get to a certain age, and I'm lucky to be able to give back a bit, and that also gives me a lot of happiness. And um, long story, not got time to share now, but uh we've all got favourite charities because it's a touch to us because something often sad's happened through it. So leukemia is is is one that uh I uh I fall for because I lost a friend many years ago to it. And then um I learned that uh there was this cycling uh tour that they were running, and uh you could ride every stage of the Tour de France, 21 stages. So myself and 18 other riders in 2022 did it. This run every year. Uh we raised more than a million pounds sterling for the charity, which was the great joy behind it, and we went through a lot of pain getting up those various mountains that you need to to ride it. So it was a great thing to do on various counts. So I like cycling. I'm not sure I like cycling enough to ever do that again, but uh I do I do think I do think fitness, I do think looking after oneself, the mental well-being, such a big subject now, is that we do need to find a bit of time for ourselves. I don't meditate as such, but if I go for a half-hour ride on my bicycle, I probably am meditating actually. It's time to myself and thinking, I think a hugely important part for anybody in business or anybody, you know, today, you've got to find a bit of time for yourselves because again, if you go back to I've mentioned a bit the social media, the importance to go back quickly. Uh, you know, people want to wait. They don't want to wait, I should say, don't want to wait at all. People want immediate replies, and you need to have immediate replies. I want to be the best. If I want if I want that booking, I have to respond immediately. But also just finding a better time to yourself, I think, is is really important, a lesson, a message to everybody, too.

Closing Thanks And How To Connect

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Absolutely. And I'm sure you'll have people reaching out after this, partners, potential guests. And I just wanted to highlight, too, that uh, you know, I greatly appreciate you making the time for this. I obviously um I want you to continue to stay well, take care of the team, continue to have amazing success this year. I look forward to seeing you in May. Thank you for kicking off this luxury series, and thanks again for the continued friendship.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

Dan, a big, big thank you to you as well. Can't wait to see you in May. And if anybody does want to reach out to me personally, Jonathan at rchmail.com comes to me, direct email, happy to help answer any question I might be able to. But again, privileged to be on the show. Thank you very much, and I'll see you in a couple of months.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:32

Sounds great. Thanks again, Jonathan. And thanks so much to all of our listeners for joining us on our first episode of our luxury hotel series for season seven of Travel Trends. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. I mean, this was a really special one for me, so I was thrilled to have Jonathan back to talk about Red Carnation Hotels. I'm excited to continue this series. I also just wanted to acknowledge our sponsors, GuestOS, our friends Jesse Fisher and the team. GuestOS, for those of you who aren't familiar, is a multilingual AI concierge built for hoteliers by hoteliers, and they answer guest calls and messaging around the clock in your brand voice. They support operational consistency and they help guests discover more of what makes your property exceptional. And we talked a lot about what's exceptional here today with Red Carnation. To learn more about GuestOS, though, just visit guestOS.ai. So thanks again to their team, and thanks again to everyone for joining us on season seven of Travel Trends and our luxury hospitality series. And until next week, safe travels.