Shaping the Future of Urban Tourism with GetYourGuide

Seventy five percent of travelers visit just four percent of Italy. That statistic alone explains why Europe is rethinking tourism and why simply attracting more visitors can no longer be the only goal. Following a live panel at GetYourGuide headquarters, Dan sat down with Francesca de Falco, Regional Manager Italy at GetYourGuide, Miguel Sanz, President of the European Travel Commission and General Director of Turespaña, and Barbara Jamison-Woods, President of CityDNA and Head of London and Partners, to discuss what sustainable tourism looks like when destinations measure impact, listen to residents, and rethink how travel experiences are designed. The conversation explores the shift from volume to value through real data, policy pressures, and practical examples that allow residents to benefit while travelers still enjoy meaningful and memorable trips.

We explore the report Driving Sustainable Tourism: GetYourGuide’s Impact in Italy and what the data reveals, including experiences reaching 105 provinces, longer visitor stays, increased traveler spending, and the growing number of travelers choosing destinations because of a specific experience. The discussion then broadens to Spain’s Vision for Tourism 2030, including the rapid surge in arrivals following the pandemic and the reality that overtourism is often shaped by issues such as housing pressures, seasonality, and everyday quality of life for residents. The central theme is clear. The tourism industry must move beyond volume toward value, combining economic growth with social benefit.

From London’s work using high street data to understand visitor flows to practical solutions such as extending opening hours at crowded attractions and sharing guidance that helps travelers visit respectfully, the conversation focuses on ideas destinations can actually implement. We also examine the role of cultural heritage and regenerative tourism, from free museum access and innovative funding models to Spain’s Paradores program, which transforms historic buildings into vibrant and living destinations.

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Transcript

Proving Tourism Impact With Data

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome to a live recording of Travel Trends here at Get Your Guides Headquarters. We've just walked off the stage and had an extraordinary panel discussion, and I'm thrilled to bring the panelists here with you. But this conversation was inspired by a report that was put together in partnership with Get Your Guide and a professor in Milan, Professor Guido Garzoni, who just left the main stage with us and gave an overview of this incredible report. And he worked really closely with one of the Get Your Guide team members, Francesca DeFalco, who is the country manager at Get Your Guide for Italy. She's based in Rome. And I'm thrilled to have her with us to give us a quick overview of the report, and then we'll bring our panelists in to discuss some of the interesting findings. But yes, thanks so much for joining us. Francesca, tell us a little bit about your role and the report you've been working on.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Thank you, Dan. So as a country manager in Get Your Guide Italy, after 10 years, we discovered that it was not enough to tell the story from the outside and tell what we were doing. When we talk with the public, let's say with the policymakers, with the Ministry of Culture, with the Ministry of Tourism, we really understood that it was time to show data, the impact of the experiential tourism in Italy. How does Get Your Guide actually work? We needed to scratch the surface and go beyond Get Your Guide is a platform that really helps the customer book and discover amazing experiences. These stakeholders needed other information. They needed to understand how spread out is Get Your Guide. How what possibility does this mean for those state-owned museums that are maybe not located in Rome, in Florence, and in Venice? So we really needed to prove to them that we had the capacity to bring visitors outside of these big, big cities and really help them discover the outskirts of these cities. So we had multiple interviews with a lot of universities, and of course, then we decided to go with uh Professor Guerzoni because he really had a solid um take and approach, right? So he really uh he really made it very clear we needed a lot of data, and we he also suggested we have a survey. So we kind of had the qualitative, the quantitative data. What are they booking? What are the visitors booking? Where are they going? So that's where we understood how spread out the impact of Get Your Guide was, that we were actually covering 105 provinces out of 110 Italian provinces. That makes 95% of the country. And then on top of that, we added a survey. So we interviewed over, you know, 100, uh 1,000 travelers, and we found out that yes, they stay one night longer because they have one extra activity to do with Get Your Guide, and they spend more because, yes, on top of, you know, the accommodation, the food, and the flights, they also spend more on experiences. And and the findings were quite eye-opening for us, right? So they they tend to spend more, um, they stay more. And so, yeah, we we finally had some data to prove our point.

Italy Findings On Spend And Dispersion

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed going through this in anticipation of having this terrific panel discussion around some of the factors that we know are an issue in Europe, whether it regards to over tourism and some of the aspects that uh technology and platforms like Get Your Guide can help with, with trying to get people into other parts of the city rather than focusing on the main attractions. And that was really what stood out to me with the work you did in Italy, because one of the stats was that 75% of the travelers you send to Italy actually only go to 4% of this beautiful country. And that was astounding just to think about the level of concentration. But there's some good news here already, because as you mentioned, some of the other really interesting takeaways is that people are spending more with Get Your Guide Experiential Travel. They're staying longer, so an average of eight nights, which is double, double the spend, double the number of nights. And people are actually traveling already further afield. The the one other huge standout for me that you shared in the presentation and the professor spoke about a moment ago, was the fact that 20% of people traveled to Italy for one of these experiences that they wouldn't have otherwise necessarily traveled to Italy. So that obviously shows us the intentionality is there to get people to travel to even further afield places to spread out that concentration. Um, but tell us a little bit about the the impact that you saw in some of the smaller communities. This was also a real standout stat for me.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yes. So it helps what what this data helps with, because then we need to translate it in okay, so what? Now what happens? So our supplier, our partners are really um eager, and they have always been, but now more than ever, to create activities outside these major cities because they actually see that there is the opportunity to grow volume and to grow value in knowing these local communities, right? So while of course we're seeing the growth of the big cities and the big museums like Vatican and and Coliseum, what we're noticing in already end of 2025 and beginning of 2026 is the three-digit growth of these cities like Lecce, Matera. These are historical value as any other big city, but they're lesser known. Of course, there's an issue of how do I get to these cities? We need to make sure that the transportation gap is filled. We need to make sure that we we inform our visitors of the opportunities there. But the suppliers really kind of replied, amazing, we're already building experiences, we're going to double down. We're going to double down on these, let's say, immersive experiences led by local experts. And that's what we want to do. We want to make sure that the explorers find the musty attractions, but then really dive into the community. Because we strongly believe that get your guide needs to be part of the solution. And if we don't fill this gap, if we don't fill this issue of 75% visiting only 4% of the entire territory, that's gonna be that's an issue.

Meet The Leaders Behind The Panel

SPEAKER_02 6:27

But it's and I was gonna say, and it's clear to me you already are, and I think this is where having a conversation like we did with the panel, and I'm keen now to bring in two of the outstanding panelists we had that joined us for this conversation, because you can see from get your guides perspective the difference that you're making. And I think that uh shown through in the pre the uh survey, which it's called Driving Sustainable Tourism, Get Your Guides Impact in Italy. And this was published November 2025. The data is still very fresh, highly relevant, um, statistically significant. I mean, there's more than a thousand people in the survey. There was actually quite a few Canadians. It was like Brits, Americans, uh, Canadians that that fit into the mix. And so it was really fascinating to see the broad overview of the people who are traveling to Europe and specifically to Italy in this instance. And then he also shared some stats about France. That is a new report, March 2026. Uh, depending on when you're listening to this, you may be able to find that report coming up as well. But let's say focus on this and the panel and bring in two of the people who are leading the way in Europe with being practitioners and really understand this knowledge. And the first person I want to introduce us to is Miguel Sands, who is the general director of the Spanish Tourism Institute, Tour España, and as well as the very high-profile role as the president of the European Travel Commission, ETC. Welcome, Miguel. Thanks for joining us on this special episode of Travel Trends. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And I also want to bring in your colleague, Barbara Jameson Woods, who kindly joined us from London to be here. Miguel is based in Madrid, and obviously you heard from Francesca, she's based in Rome. And here we have Barbara, who's based in London, and her role there, and she's very interesting as well because she has two very important roles. She's the head of Europe for London and Partners, but she's also the president of City Destinations Alliance, also known as City DNA. Welcome as well, Barbara.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here.

Spain Vision 2030 From Volume

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yeah, and thank you both. I mean, we've just come off stage. I think we're all buzzing with energy from that conversation. We saw the smiles, the nodding heads in the room. We had some really engaging QA afterwards. And as uh I mentioned in the beginning, we had Tao Tao do the opening, and then we had Professor Grizzoni, and then we took to the stage to build upon the work that had been shared. And the part that I really wanted to go to Miguel first is because as we were preparing for this panel and this interview and podcast, I was looking at the work that you have done, Miguel, with Spanish Vision for Tourism 2030. And I found so many fascinating parallels between this report and the journey you're already on. Would you give our listeners a bit of an overview of that sustainability, that sustainable vision for 2030 for Spain? Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Um I think that um yes, it has similarities because um at the end of the day we have very similar challenges across Europe. Um Spain takes it as a responsibility that we are the you know the most visited destination in for vacational and recreational trips in Europe, um, and that we are one of the world's top visited destinations. So so someone has to lead the way, and we're ready to do it. Um so we what we have done at the first thing we thought is we have to put people at the center of the strategy. And by people we mean everyone involved. Because before, you know, ten years ago it was everything consumer-centric, everything was about the traveller and how to satisfy the traveller and everything the traveller wanted to do. Uh, but we have found out in Europe, sometimes the hard way, that local residents are important, that uh people who work in tourism are important, that people who invest, entrepreneurs that invest in tourism are important, that people who work in local and regional and national governments and manage tourism are important allies in developing a tourism model. So what we have done is okay, if we're gonna do a strategy for 2030, we need to take into account all these people. Everyone has to be involved and everyone need everyone's needs need to be involved and attended. Um, so we have done a diagnosis of the situation with over 200 stakeholders. Um, that is regional governments, local governments, trade unions, that is environmentalist groups, that is experts, that is national um um uh professionals uh at the government. Um and we have uh a shared diagnosis of what do we have to do. That is important. It sounds easy to do, it was difficult to do. Um and what we have then um reached is a consensus on 15 goals, 15 objectives uh uh about the strategy. Um and this now has to be implemented in part by the national government. And for the first time in 20 years, we have had a conference of all ministries of the Spanish government to discuss how to implement a national plan for the development and implementation of the Vision 2030 in tourism, for the National Tourism Strategy 2030. It was the first time in over 20 years. Um and I think that uh this plan with over 150 um actionable activities um with everyone involved will mean that there will be a transformation of the model, what is important, from volume to value. And when I say value, many people will think, oh, it's about getting more expensive, it's about you know the economic value, it's about how to get more money out of tourism. No, it's social and economic value. Both of them are important. So it's Spain will remain a global destination for everyone, uh for all types of of travelers, but it they will have they need to have a positive impact and a positive social impact as well and in the destinations.

Regenerative Tourism And City DNA

SPEAKER_02 12:30

And what's really what's fascinating, one of the key reasons I wanted Miguel as part of this conversation, is because Spain has been in the headlines and has served as a bit of a flashpoint for some of the concerns around the perception of overtourism, which we'll get into in a moment, because the good news is there's actually a lot of positive signs of change. And that 2030 report highlighted to me for my family that traveled to Spain last year. We were so looking forward, we had a wonderful time in Spain, but there was an instant before we we traveled across, my kid said to me, Are we really welcome in Barcelona? And the very first day our guide said to us, Of course you are. There's challenges with, you know, socioeconomic challenges, especially when it comes to the cost of rents and and living costs. And that's obviously a factor of these Airbnb and the sharing economy. And that's one of the factors, and one of the standouts for me in that report is that the average spend being 500 euros a day, the biggest contributor of that is accommodation. And of accommodation, 30% of those, uh, the most of any of the verticals is shared accommodation like Airbnb. So you see where the challenges arise. And then speaking to you in preparation, you were highlighting some of the growth stats of tourism in Spain. So it's very clear why it became a pressure point when you had such a massive influx of travelers. But the good news is for me and for all of our listeners, is the change is very much on the way. And that's reflected in this report and in the 2030 initiative. And I just wanted to call out specifically that you know, all indications are that we're moving to an era where success is no longer just a business KPI. That's always what we've been looking at is like heads and beds, the number of people that travel to a city, arrival numbers. It's really, as exactly what you said there, Miguel, a social and environmental one. And the most important thing that really stood out to me on the panels, you were talking about us moving from volume to value. And obviously, you and Barbara are leading in this space that are quite literally redesigning the map of European travel. And so I want to bring Barbara in on that topic, and then we'll come back to you again, Miguel, since you know you're not only based in London, but you also have this important role at City DNA, and so you have visibility of cities like Barcelona as well as part of your portfolio. So, first of all, Barbara, tell us a little bit about city DNA.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Now, the beauty of city DNA is that we are first and foremost a knowledge-sharing platform. So London Partners has benchmarked and helped Helsinki and partners, Amsterdam and partners. Equally, we learn from some of our smaller cities. And our smaller cities are um benefiting from larger cities being a gateway to increase the number of visitors by collaborating. But our strategy is now coming to an end. Our last three-year strategy, which is called WE Generation, is all about regenerative tourism. So everything that you've just been discussing, it's about managing those flows, it's about making sure that the residents benefit from the visitor economy, it's about um shining a light on, you know, whether it's a small gallery in the outskirts of a city, it's about um the dispersal of the income that we want our members, because all of the DMOs um predominantly work on a membership basis. So it's about really tourism for all. And it's really kind of in line with what today's traveller wants. Um, no longer you know are we looking at people who want to see so many cities in a week, they want to spend more time, they want something authentic, they want something that they feel where they belong, um, you know, that they're going to feel comfortable when they come to a city, and they also want to find something that nobody else has experienced. So we're also extremely delighted at City Destinations Um Alliance that we've just um forged a brand new partnership with Get Your Guide. Um, because like London, um, previously we would look at the visitor economy, but our growth plan that we worked on uh collaboratively with the Mayor of London last year, um we only referred to it as the experience economy. So that's how things have uh completely changed, you know, to what they used to be.

London High Streets Data Project

SPEAKER_02 16:50

And one more question for you, Barbara, on this topic, and then I'm really getting keen to get Miguel's take on this, given this was such an important part of our discussion on stage, is over tourism, affordability, trust with local residents. And the reason I want to set the stage for that now is because I want to move into the solutions and get your guide as far as what they're doing to be part of that solution, but also the other initiatives that you have underway in um in the UK and Spain. So specifically when it comes to London, I know you've taken a lot of data to try and figure out how you better distribute people uh to different neighborhoods that could really benefit from the economic value of travelers, even looking at the vacancy rates on some of the high streets and working with MasterCard and some of that spend data. Tell us a little bit more about the work that you've done there to already kind of highlight what's already underway.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yes, so we have gone from a position of um being the DMO for London to now really working um with our outer boroughs. So London isn't just London. London is actually a group of 33 different villages, if you like, different uh neighbourhoods, each with their own DNA, um, each with their own challenges, but with also their own hidden secrets, the hidden gems. And what we've been able to do, and I think this is because we've had previous experience actually working across the city with different government-funded and corporate-funded stakeholders in the convergence and the overlaying of data, we've been able to benefit, you know, many, many stakeholders in central London, predominantly. What we're suffering from is still the effects of COVID, because people's um lifestyle and the way that they work has changed. And what you need to remember about London, a lot of our visitors come from London. So we are actually facing the opposite. Um, we're we want people to come into the centre of London because almost COVID kind of fast-forward a trend that was happening already, which is e-commerce. So many um visitors, external international visitors, still look at London as a being their done-it destination. They think they know London, they think they they know Oxford Street, but they don't know the real London. So for us, um, by being really kind of experienced in this overlaying of data, MasterCard used London as their very first pilot city to roll out um their app. So we benefited from that. Um, we also were very um grateful because of working with the mayor's office, but also with other um bodies around the Olympics. So we had the permission to share data, and I think that's very important to be able to use the data that is there, and we've now grown that um and we've worked, whereas before the boroughs were working in silos, some of them had budgets, some of them didn't, but using our knowledge and using our experience, and because we're fully integrated DMO with with um other government departments, our chairman is the deputy mayor for business. So we're able to be quite influential in what we're doing, and so we were able then to lead on this brand new project, which is the High Streets Project, um, looking at um the visitor spend through MasterCard, looking at behavioural patterns with mobile phone technology, but also working with our retailers, working with our restaurants, working with our attractions, and it's the overlaying of this data and also looking at the pain points and the pinch points. So, you know, there are lots of empty premises in the centre of London because people are working from home, um, and then changing the purpose of those um areas of London and also looking at the retail and and the attractions, how that could be redefined. So we've actually got a brand new department with over a hundred people funded by the mayor called Grow London, and and it's there to do exactly that.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

That's fantastic. And I do what when you mention about the size of London and the number of boroughs and the fact you've got a lot of locals traveling, it obviously reminds me of the Samuel Johnson line, uh, when a man is tired of London, he's tired of life, or as we should modernize it, if someone is tired of London, they may be tired of life. I think one of the things that's so special about London and why I wanted to focus both on the UK and Spain, given the importance of both of those uh destinations and global tourism, uh, many of our listeners will have been to London, they know London well, and when something uh gets launched in London, like the Queen Elizabeth line that we were talking about on stage, all of a sudden it opens up you know new neighborhoods, and that's uh a significant development that can really open up economic and travel opportunities. But it's interesting to see what you do with that and how intentional you are with being able to shift those. Traveler flows. And so on that note, obviously I want to go back to Spain because Miguel's role, he's based in Madrid, he's overseeing not only the Spanish market, but has a great understanding of the European market as well. And so when we're preparing for these conversations, he was highlighting to me the affordability crisis is not unique to Spain. It very much is a global challenge, but it's been most pronounced in Spain given the rapid increase in tourism. And so I wanted to revisit that point one more time, and then I want to bring in Francesca to talk about how some of this distribution is actually happening from the work that Get Your Guide is doing. But tell us a little bit more, if you wouldn't mind, Miguel, about how you are seeing this challenge of over-tourism, and then we can stop using that word and focus on the solutions to make sure that when people are visiting Spain, they have a fantastic time wherever they go and that people are thrilled that they're there and that we get back on track with having those conversations.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Okay. Um first let me say that um over-tourism um is a perception. Uh there are many places in the world, in Spain, that have more visitors per square mile inhabitants than others and do not suffer from over-tourism because there are people that live there don't think there is over-tourism there. So this is a perception and it's a fair perception of the people that actually live in in a destination. So what happened in Spain is that um 2019, pre-pandemic, 84 million international arrivals in Spain. 2020, 20 million, a quarter. 2021, 30 plus million. Um not even yet almost a third of what it was in 2019. And then from 2022 until 2025, we get to ninety-seven million. Yeah, wow. That is a very rapid, quick growth. It overwhelm some destinations. Tripling your numbers in three years. It's overwhelming. And imagine that happens mostly in the summer period. So some destinations felt that on top of the affordability crisis all over the world, uh, on top of the housing crisis all over Europe, we have you know millions of people arriving to your destination with the impact that that you know has. So um I think that you know, it has stabilized the number of of people, uh the growth numbers have stabilized. So I I would say that now it it would be more easy for you know local residents, governments to adapt to any growth that happens, to adapt new legislation, to adapt businesses to adapt to new consumer trends, to adapt to a new environment. And that will make it easy for you know for local residents to feel they are not being um uh you know overwhelmed by the arrival of people. But um I also think that uh the you know the rapidness uh which you know it happened in three years, um it it wasn't very easy to you know catch up. I work in the national government, it was it wasn't that easy to catch up. Uh, but we were doing things all the time. Different destinations were doing things. Barcelona, we've we've mentioned they have um banned you know short-term rental altogether um in a few years, and that is why they think their tourism model relies on um a different type of uh visitors, um, and that is their prerogative to do, and and other destinations are you know betting on different things. So I think that you know there are a lot of things being done. There's uh a lot of um we it during the panel we I use the you know the uh traffic, uh how we regulated traffic from the 1920s uh up until today to have you know better traffic conditions and to go from one place to another in a safer way. So with tourism, it's the same. It's we we need to regulate a model that benefits local communities, has the best experience possible for the traveler, and you know, uh we allow our business people to make money out of it. Yeah.

Concrete Fixes From GetYourGuide Italy

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Well, one of the things that was so fascinating that you pointed to on the panel, and this is where I want to bring Francesca in now because we have the privilege of her joining us for this discussion. She wasn't on stage with us, but she's here now. Because as we get to the end of the conversation, you started highlighting what more get your guide can do. And it was great because you were kind of pushing the team to move faster, do more, because this is actually a big part of the solution. And so, Francesca, you did the report on Italy, so you already know some of the progress that the team has been making in that market. But today, obviously, you were sitting there listening to Miguel and to Barbara as well, knowing the pipeline of what's in development with Get Your Guide. So, walk us through from a team, like whether a tech point of view or the user experience on Get Your Guide with some of the intentions to introduce new neighborhoods or other activities that are not the top 10, getting hidden gems. Because Miguel was kind of calling out the fact that only half of them are bookable yet. So he's like, get more of them bookable as fast as possible. It will help. So tell us about the journey you've been on so far and what's next.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

So I can talk about one big initiative because I agree with Miguel. Over tourism, sometimes we say this word and then we don't come up with what the actual management of this means. So I'm gonna give you a very concrete example. Castellos Caligero, it's a castle in Lake Garda. It's beautiful. It's overcrowded. And you might think, we don't need more customers, we don't need more visitors, we don't need more customers. Get your guide, we don't need get your guide. And then when you talk with the stakeholders, when you talk to the director of the museum, you find out that that museum closes at Saturday p.m., 1 p.m. It closes down. Why? Because they struggle with a lot of issues with staffing and funds. And that's when we discover that even when an attraction is fully crowded, maybe we can be more efficient about that. Why aren't you opening on Saturday afternoon and Sunday? And that's where we came in and we built this amazing partnership. It wasn't quick because when, you know, private companies and public entities come together, it's a long way. But we made it happen. And what we did is we sponsored the extra hours. So now the castle is visible, is you can visit, you can go in if you're a resident or you're you're to your visitor just for the weekend, you can go in from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m. This means that whoever lives there will have a better experience because they it's a gift to the city. People who live there can enjoy it during the extra hours. And maybe the director of the museum won't have to think, how do I fit all these people within these hours? No, you have extra hours and you have one extra day on Sunday. So that's where you need to be very into the details, close to the attractions, listen to them, listen to the local needs. And as we were mentioning before, in Florence, you over tourism, like they have a lot of visitors, but they all stop between Palazzo Vecchio and the cathedral and they don't spread out. And the other risk is that once you visit Florence, you eat everywhere, you just drive your moped and you leave it in the middle of the street. Are you actually leaving some kind of value for those residents that live there? And that's where the team came in. They talked to the counselor for tourism and they found out hey, why can't you reach all the customers that book Florence on Get Your Guide and send them a PDF that tells us about tells them about this project, which is enjoy respect Florence. These are the do' and the don'ts when you come to Florence. This is powerful because you're giving all those million of visitors that book via Get Your Guide also a kind of vademecum on how to live that city and make sure that Florence, the next day, is still there for the residents and not just for the for the visitors. And so that is where Get Your Guide brings in the value. We have the reach, we have the means to kind of have that kind of really effort to give the city back and the attractions back to the visitors and to the residents. So I think it's a lot about the dialogue. We need to be local, we need to talk, we need to meet each other, and we need to understand what is needed and how get your guide can contribute. And then of course it goes down. The next step is how do we bring it on the platform? And that's where the conversations are happening with the product team. Yes, we're displaying the Coliseum, but then are we displaying right beyond Rome? What is beyond Rome? And there's so much beyond Rome. So we need to surface that also online. But I think it also starts offline and then you bring it online. So it starts, it's both ways.

Heritage Funding And Sustainable Access

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yeah, it's a really interesting point you're making there. And we did have another panelist, Paula Margoza, who joined us from the City of Sevilla. And she made some really interesting points towards the end of the discussion. And she was fantastic on stage, but uh she is still learning English and she was a little concerned about joining the podcast, but she was fantastic on stage. And Paula, I just wanted to highlight a point that you made towards the end about the experiences that you're very focused on delivering within the city of Sevilla, which are very cultural and the festivals and how you're very intentional about creating festivals in different neighborhoods to encourage people to explore other areas of the city. But also what she mentioned in that discussion that really stood out for me was the fact that at the end of the day, we all need to make sure that travelers are having incredible experiences in destination and they need to be authentic and they need to focus on human connection. And the operators of these experiences, having worked in this industry for over 20 years, I've always focused on the travel experience rather than the technology experience, because at the end of the day, that's what someone's traveling to a destination for. But when it comes to how they book, how they research, how they plan, that's all changed and platforms like Get Your Guide are more important than ever. And that's exactly where Miguel's like, get more of this product and supply and inventory, and clearly you're of the same mindset. And so one of the other aspects I want to highlight why we're having this discussion together that's really important for all of our listeners, is along the lines of the actual authentic experience. And that connects to heritage and sustainability. And I was as I was preparing for these conversations, I we had one-off calls together. I always like to over-prepare for a panel like this or uh a podcast. And this could actually be three hours. We're gonna try and keep it condensed, but uh any of our panelists will be accessible afterwards, we'll share reports. But one of the things I wanted to make sure that we covered in our time together is heritage and sustainability. And so, Barbara, I wanted to go to you first because when I asked you this question, you had some really valuable insights, and Miguel did too, because at the end of the day, this is why people are gonna continue to travel. So tell us what you're how you're prioritizing those initiatives so that the stars align for travelers with this new value model where you're putting the societal needs first.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yes, and I think I'll turn the spotlight on some of our other smaller city members. So if I look at um Bruges, for example, if I look at Mechelen in Belgium and Ghent, they um are really working very, very closely together to look at their differences, to look at their DNA, but also to look at the customer journey and to attract repeat visitors. So Bruges is very, very famous for the Christmas market. Um, but Mechelen also has a Christmas market, and Gedantz is also an extremely interesting, beautiful, historical, cultural city, one of the oldest cities in Belgium. And I think because they have collaborated and shared data and looked at joint marketing efforts, but also they've looked at where they've got pain points. So they've come up with different types of products that would appeal to maybe a Christmas market visitor. So they've come up with other um similar products, but that's going to take those same same travellers who who've discovered maybe Belgium for the first time. They've been to Brussels, they've been to Bruges, but now they want to go back because they love the food, they love the welcome, but they want to see something different. So it's by changing and playing off each other's historical products that they're able to then attract the repeat visitor, or they're they're they're going to attract people who have heard about niche uh destinations and somebody wants something different. Maybe they've been to Brussels many, many times, and it's the interconnectivity by train, so sustainable travel, that is working also for them. And if I look at London, um we collaborate to drive off-season, low season travel to Scotland because we really want that high-value repeat visitor or that high-value visitor who wants to come to a London, who wants to maybe come to London because they know that they want to go to this specific restaurant or they want to go and see a show that they know is is only on for six weeks and they have to come, but they want to make the most of that one journey because they're a conscious traveller. And so we work with Scotland that is driving business out of season to Scotland because when you look at the UK, although London is nearly a population of 10 million, we're actually a very, very small country compared to Spain and to and compared to Italy. So you're in Bath, you know, you're in Bristol very, very quickly by train. Um, you're you're down to the coast of Brighton in one hour, you're into the vineyards of Hampshire and East Sussex within an hour. So by looking at these products that people wouldn't necessarily think was a London product, we're almost calling it a London product because distance-wise, it's very accessible, but it's niche, it's different, and it's all about collaboration between the the cities.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Well, one thing that Barbara highlighted to me was obvious as soon as she said it, is that all the museums in the in London are freely available. And that was for me and it's kind of obvious as soon as you say it, but that's how you preserve the culture and the heritage, and also make sure that these experiences are sustainable long term because you've created the environment by which they can. And so, yeah, please finish off on that note because I found that that was you know a very progressive strategy that many other cities could potentially emulate.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yes, so all of our museums and galleries are free because um they receive the lottery funding, and that was a strategic move. So all of that income coming from the lottery would go to our museums. And I think sometimes people forget that um our galleries, our museums actually have charity status. So everything that they're bringing in also, and we haven't really touched on this subject, but the the business event economy, if if they are um hosting you know a medical conference in one of their spaces, or um one of the fintech financial technology companies is organizing a gala dinner in Somerset House or Tate or Tate Modern, that income that they receive is going back into the refurbishment and the upkeep of the art, the major works of art, but it's also creating bursaries for students to work. So they also give a lot back to the community and also create new jobs. So I think again it comes down to collaboration and aligning strategies with the association of attractions, with the association of galleries, with the the um universities, etc. etc., across the city to drive business where business is needed and to direct the funding and to look at innovative ways of raising funds that will be fed back into our cultural heritage.

Spain Paradores Turning Heritage Into Value

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Yeah, it's so fascinating. Thanks for that, Barbara. And Miguel, there was one extraordinary example you shared with me that I'm really keen for all of our listeners to pick up on, and this was the idea that you know Spain is actually quite famous for converting castles and convents into hotels. And this is like I was like, of course, like there was the brilliance of maintaining heritage and uh focusing on sustainability. Tell us a little bit about that journey and the and how successful that's been for Spain.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

So this was something that um King Alphonse the Thirteenth in 1928 um thought about. And uh so he thought that two things. Uh tourism is a is you know is a tool for economic development and social development, so we should create destinations. And then he said Spain is a country with a lot of heritage uh legacy and and legacy and and heritage buildings is one of the main attributes of Europe in general, but um of Spain as well. So um, how do we keep those buildings you know running and and alive? And he thought, okay, we can convert them into hotels. That was 1928. Um what is what is funny is that the first Padador that was built 1928 is now becoming in 1928 a heritage building. In 2028, it will be a heritage building. It was a new building there, but it will be a heritage building in in two years' time. Um and it so it the the Paradoris chain is a publicly owned hotel chain in Spain. Um 99 hotels uh up until today. Um half of them are heritage buildings, protected buildings, castles, palaces, convents. They are everywhere in Spain. The the last one we opened was in Ibiza, the island of Ibiza, um last Monday, um a week ago. This is a building uh of more than 2,500 years of history. We have found a Phoenician wall, Roman remains, Greek remains, Arab remains, even British and French remains. Um so we have converted that building, that fortress into a hotel where you can see 2,500 years of history. Um staying at a anarch at an archaeological site. Um this helps to maintain the building, to keep Ibiza as a cultural um destination. The city of Ibiza is a UNESCO World Heritage City, um, and it helps other you know 50 buildings in Spain to be alive and open to everyone because uh people don't know. Even if you're not um you know a guest in in the hotel, you can go in and ask uh in many of them for a tour of the of the of the building, because it's a heritage building. Um and this was a very nice way to preserve uh heritage buildings, to you know, promote tourism and develop new destinations uh around the country, and it has helped us to value and to you know position our branding as well as a heritage destination.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Well, and one of the things clearly this is where positive examples like that have contributed to the survey results that you had shared with me in advance that I was reviewing that two-thirds of people in Spain view tourism as a force for good. So when they hear and understand more of these examples, and actually also uh that help is on the way, if you will, that you know, that there's more of a conscientious effort being made within the industry, within the partner, supplier network, distribution, like get your guide to address these societal challenges, to shift the focus from a pure profit model that is just looking at the bottom line to actually better understanding the overall impact. Because that's going to be better for the traveler, it's gonna be better for the locals, and ultimately it's gonna be good for business.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Yes, because you know the the beauty of our industry is that it is based on the beauty of places, on the out authenticity of places. So I and and and I want to point out, for example, um Costa Rica. Costa Rica said if we want to develop our country, we could we can do two things. We can you know cut off our jungle and you know and and sell the timber, or we can preserve the jungle and make it a destination. Because when you travel to some to places you want to see you know uh well-preserved nature, you want to see well-preserved heritage, you want to see people that are happy. You don't want to go to places where people are unhappy. Uh huh. So, in the interest of our industry is to you know, bring happiness to travelers, local communities, to preserve heritage, to maintain local traditions, to you know, maintain Gastronomy to maintain things that are authentic to that destination. So it's it's not just about we make profit, and that's the beauty of it, by preserving the authenticity of a of a place.

Biggest Takeaways And Future Optimism

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Yeah, that's fantastic. And just to close us out, I want to bring Francesca in as well. And what I'd love for each of you to be able to share is just like I asked you on stage, one of your big takeaways from today that will be really interesting for our audience, because clearly we don't have a chance to cover everything. We don't want to make the most of our time together, and I think we have. But Francesca, you didn't have the opportunity to share this on stage. So I'm really keen to get your takeaway from this. And given the the overall positive sentiment that we're concluding this podcast interview on, what you're most optimistic about about the future of travel in Europe?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

I would say collaboration. I think the dialogue needs to be there, continue to understand each other more. And that's where we find the sweet spot between helping the customers that want to book online, they want to be inspired online, they want to find new places online. So we need to help, you know, um uh support them while they're booking and trying to understand which city is it? Am I going to Spain? Am I going to Italy? And am I going to the UK? And support them and inspire them in the travel journey from discovery to booking. And then our job in local offices is really to make sure that this connection we bring the online offline, right? So we we we are part of the solution. We discuss with the cities, with the with the with the state uh state-owned attractions and and the ministries of culture and tourism to really bridge this gap and really communicate more.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us for this as well. It's been terrific having you here. Barbara, please give us your biggest takeaway and what you're most optimistic about.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

So I think today's traveler is operating in a constant world of flux. And I think for me it's really heartening to see this collaboration between cities, between platforms like Get Your Guide, that addresses the individual traveller as an individual. Um whether they have constraints financially, whether they're time poor, um, whether they want to make a last-minute booking, they can. Um whereas I think before it was much, much harder for people. And I think to echo really what what um we were just saying, travel is really there for the good. It's for the good of people, it's for the good of cities, and it's all about that connectivity and bringing people together.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Fantastic. And Miguel, last word from you, please.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

Um I think um I shared this on a stage. Um, we are in the era of experience travel. Um we you know, hotels, you can book any hotels online, you can book any airline ticket online. Still, you mentioned it, um, you cannot book even half of the experiences out there in the world online. And we need to make this possible. We need to, you know, collaborate with platforms such as Get Your Guide and others to make it possible for destinations to be and exist online, not just because of a pretty name or or or or a name without value, but because of the things you can do. Um years ago, you know, experienced providers relied on the book and window that was when the traveler was on site. That is not enough. It doesn't help you to develop a sustainable tourism model. We need the platforms to make better destinations, we make the platforms to make better tourism, we need the platforms to make you know travel a better experience. And uh, you know, we we talked about the Taylor Swift um uh effect. People travel not because of the place, but because of the experience of a concert of their favorite artist. But around that, you could find many different experiences provided by local providers around the concert experience. It is about that, it is about allowing people to develop, you know, um their their lives through uh tourism. And I think that's a beauty we are living a beautiful moment in tourism where everything is possible or we are making it possible.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

Very inspiring final words. Thank you, Miguel, thank you, Barbara, thank you, Francesca. It's been a real honor to have this time with you on stage and here. And I look forward to seeing you again in the near future. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Where To Find Reports And Clips

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

And I just wanted to say a special thank you to the Get Your Guy team for bringing me in today, not only to record this special spotlight episode, but also for the amazing panel that we just hosted on stage. So thanks again to Jimmy, Catherine, Marta, and the team. Tao, it was great to see you again, of course. And then on this podcast interview, I just wanted to say a special thanks again to Francesco DeFalco, who joined us from the Get Your Guide team to share the research of the impact study that was done by Professor Guido Garzoni. I definitely encourage you to check that out. And then thanks again to Miguel Sands and Barbara Jameson Woods for joining us for this discussion. If you're interested in learning more about these spotlight episodes, check out traveltrendspodcast.com slash spotlights and make sure you're subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when new episodes go live. And don't forget we do post clips and highlights on our social channels, which you can find on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. Thanks again for joining us, and until next episode, safe travels.