Global Luxury Hotel Trends Part 3 with Stuart Greif

Five-star luxury has a secret most travelers never see. It’s not the lobby, the suite, or the amenities. It’s the consistency behind the scenes, delivered by teams who feel supported enough to show up with genuine warmth every single time. That’s what we explore in the last episode of our Luxury Hotel Series with Stuart Greif, Chief Strategy and Innovation Officer at Forbes Travel Guide, and one of the leading voices at the intersection of hospitality, technology, and guest experience.

We break down how Forbes Travel Guide inspections actually work, why service carries such weight, and what truly separates a five-star hotel from a great property that falls just short. Stuart shares why “don’t chase the rating” is more than a philosophy, it’s a guiding principle for how the best hotels operate. We also touch on what makes the Forbes Travel Guide Summit in Monaco so impactful, with its focus on inspiration, community, and learning over sales.

From there, we get practical on hotel technology and AI. Where can an AI concierge meaningfully reduce friction? Why does luxury adopt technology differently than the mass market? And how are generative AI and large language model search reshaping hotel marketing? The shift is not just technical, it’s reputational. When AI surfaces only a handful of options, a hotel’s differentiation, culture, and real guest outcomes become the true drivers of growth.

Tune in if you’re thinking about where luxury hospitality is heading next and what it really takes to stand out.

Thanks to GuestOS.ai for sponsoring this series!

👉 Listen to Global Luxury Hotel Trends Part 3

🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 7 Title Sponsors for their Support: Bokun, Civitatis, Intrepid, Kaptio, Propellic and Protect Group

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Stuart Grife

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello everyone and welcome to episode three of our luxury hotel series. And I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation with a dear friend of mine, uh, Stuart Grife, who I'm gonna bring in in a moment. And I've the first question I have to ask him is how much grief the last name Grife has given him over the years, because even when I get introduced to other people, people are like, oh, you know Stephen Grief? And I was like, no, it's Stephen Stuart Grife. First of all, both drawing out. That's your that's that's that's your other call sign. But yeah, Stuart Grife is a dear friend of mine. He's also very importantly the chief strategy and innovation officer at Forbes Travel Guide. And he has not only in a very important role in the industry, he was key to bringing us in, as you would have heard over the last two episodes, to the Forbes Travel Guide Conference, first in Las Vegas and then last year in Monaco. And so it really opened up the Travel Trends audience to hospitality. So I uh I owe him a huge amount of credit for bringing us into that space. But him and I worked together for many years before. He was within a startup called Emperity, and before that with Microsoft. He was a senior executive with JD Power. He worked for Accenture for many years. So he has a real depth in the technology space, in hospitality, and then also now with the cross-section of guest experience. And so I'm thrilled that he's agreed to join us. This is his first time on the Travel Trends Podcast. He's been part of Spotlight episodes, he's been part of our AI summit for the last two years. But Stuart, you finally get your moment on the Travel Trends Podcast. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yes. And let me start out with a couple of things. First of all, no grief with grife. That was my slogan for student body president back in high school, no grief with grife. Professionally, when people uh understandably mispronounce my name or autocorrect correct it to the misspelling, um, I often say I've been called worse and uh probably deserved it most times. So I'll take it. Um that's fine. Um, and then, you know, in addition to our summit, as you know, Dan and I uh met up at ITB Berlin. So I had two straight, exhilarating weeks in Europe, plus nine hours from home. Finally, at the end, I get to the airport. I'm gonna have a little peace and quiet, some downtime to like decompress and process. And who shows up at the gate? But Dan. So, you know, and then what happens? Oh, out of everybody in this world, I could be seated next to on my way home from two weeks and plus nine hours and 20-hour days, it's a podcast host. Oh my gosh. But uh actually, it was a wonderful, serendipitous moment. Dan and I got some time to catch up, which was wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

And I didn't know this was racing through Stuart's mind, and you'll see we'll actually have our producer bring up this camera image because we're standing in the line and we both realize we're in row seven. We're like, no way, we're sitting next to each other. And so he takes a picture, and I had no idea he was hamming it up for the camera. So I'm looking all giddy and excited. And I did the same thing when we got on the plane, and I thought we were both like super excited to be with each other. And then he makes this post about the fact he's got stuck next to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

And uh anyone who knows me knows uh, you know, we're not curing cancer, we're in the hospitality industry most times giving joy and happiness and memories. Sometimes people, you know, when they're at their worst and and need comfort and solace, but um, so let's have fun, you know, while we're doing it.

A Circuitous Path Into Hospitality

SPEAKER_02 3:17

So and my response to Stuart for many of you that might have actually seen this because I got a few thousand impressions was the uh um I said, welcome to the Travel Trends Podcast, Stuart. Let's start with your childhood and work forward to see how quickly our listeners fall asleep. And so Yeah, I was gonna say now now we can put that to the test today. No, we're not gonna start with his childhood, um, but we are gonna start with a bit of background. So I do want our listeners to have a better understanding of how you've ended up in the hospitality space and specifically with this fantastic role at Forbes travel guy that you're so perfectly suited for. Um but tell everyone about your background in technology and then hospitality as well, Stuart.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah, my my route was rather circuitous relative to most folks. Um, you know, growing up, coming out of um school, I wanted a broad exposure to business. I got um at the time into what was Anderson Consulting now, Accenture. Technology was transforming the world at that time, the way AI is now. And so I wanted a broad exposure. I didn't know what I didn't know. Um, so I wound up working across a lot of different industries. But as a byproduct, I was living out of hotels, traveling out of town four or five days a week. And I actually lived out of a hotel in midtown Manhattan for 18 months in a 22-month period, five, six days a week, and actually uh wound up loving the staff and uh probably a little too much, dated in a way that was probably more inappropriate for them than for me, but also became good friends. And in fact, uh the general secretary for Clay d'Or, Barack, was a concierge at that hotel now almost 30 years ago when we first met and reconnected in recent years. So that really sparked like this sense of this feeling of hospitality. It took me a little bit later. I went to business school and came back and worked for a company that had a lot of different interests, and I received some global experience again, living out of hotels often when I traveled. But then once we acquired JD Power, in addition to some corporate functions, I took over global travel and hospitality. And I was working with luxury players in Dubai all the way down to you know Motel 6 in the US and really had a broad exposure to the industry. And since then, you know, um, it led to many years at JD Power, Microsoft and Parity, the Unicorn startup, now Forbes travel guide, and doing a lot in the industry. I'm just so passionate about what we do.

GuestOS And Empathetic AI Concierge

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Fantastic. And I know you're such a super connector and you're an ally for uh women and diversity and travel. And it's one of the things that came up on our uh episode last week that you had inspired. And I just want to add one additional bit of context when you think about your role and involvement with uh female executives and promoting female leadership in the travel industry and also your work across startups as well. So the startup that has kindly sponsored this series is uh guestoest.ai. Yeah, exactly. That's why I wanted to make the connection now. You're a huge fan of Jesse Fisher as well. And I just wanted to acknowledge Jesse because it's amazing to see how far the team has come in the last two years from many people in the industry continuing to uh lift them up and the success trajectory they're on now with luxury hotels in particular. And so for those of you who are interested in learning a bit more about GuestOS, who are sponsoring the Luxury Hotel series, their whole focus is uh they've developed a multilingual AI concierge that was built by hoteliers specifically for hotels because Jesse's whole background growing up in eusemity with her parents owning hotels, they literally built this system for their own purposes and realized there was so much benefit for uh hotels nationwide and now internationally. So it handles guest calls, messages 24-7, keeps everything consistent in your brand voice. We use this for our event with our character that we call Jet. And so you can call in and ask for information about our AI Summit, for example. Uh, but really it's it does the thing that you know is so important, which is makes the experiences really stand out at a property. And so if you're in hospitality, definitely uh check out guestos.ai and thanks again to Jesse and the team.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, Jesse and the the technology is it's extremely empathetic. You know, I uh I want Jesse to continue in hospitality, but I'm like, please God, I could deal with you know my cable company and my phone company having a little less human support, you know, overseas with no escalation versus an empathetic AI that um, you know, actually can get my answer and take care of it quickly without long cues or escalations or an inability to actually resolve something. Um the beauty is once it's set, you know, until you change something, you know, it's correct. And when it can't answer something yet, it goes to a human. And at some point that can be automated. I think you know, luxury will adopt after something's become mass market appropriate. So texting's a good example. Um, you know, once there's a point when a text came in, you're like, you know, what the H, you know, this is an intrusion. How dare you send me a message? And then we quickly realize it's convenience. You're in a hotel and your partner is sleeping and you want to be able to call downstairs. It's early morning, you can send a text, or you don't feel like getting dressed and going downstairs. Or you're in a business meeting and you can't um you realize you don't have a dinner reservation for your team and you can text and do it asynchronously. So I think many technologies, not all of them, uh, will get proven out and perfected at the mass market, and then gradually there'll be uh initially edge use cases. So a luxury hotel may not have a concierge at two in the morning. Well, is having somewhere better than others, or you may suddenly get inundated with a whole bunch of check-ins at the same time. Is it better to have an epithet AI help address some of that versus the phone just ringing or people on hold for five, 10 minutes, which at luxury does not go well? So I think, you know, over time there will be uh scenarios and long, long term, luxury will adopt it. It doesn't replace a human in the loop and human connection, the portance at luxury, but neither did texting or an app, right? Most, most even luxury hospitality have apps, right? So I think over time, as uh technology evolves and innovation happens, um, you know, there's kind of an adoption curve of where it takes root most robustly. Um, so for example, contact centers, you see Wyndham um handling a huge amount of calls in in ways that are better for the guests calling in and reduce costs significantly. I think it was 300 basis points or 3% reduction. And they've got, you know, 20-some agents handling calls. Sometimes people are just calling to say, do you still have the reservation? It's amazing how many people do that. Um, and that can be done seamlessly at economy budget up to mid-scale, for example, where Wyndham primarily plays.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Yeah. And that's one of the things I want to get into in our conversation is given your role at Forbes Travel Guide, the technology you're seeing and what applies in luxury, because obviously I really respect your opinion. You have just come out of the summit conference as well. We had a lot of highlights shared with us from Emily and Marlene last week. And uh you were the one that kindly nominated them. And this is where when we created this series, given I wasn't able to attend the summit this year, I really wanted to lead off season seven with the hospitality theme and focusing on luxury hotels because in all of my time, you know, recently speaking at Virtuoso conferences, you know, the luxury segment continues to grow. Um, but trying to demystify what luxury hotels, what that experience actually is, and why hotels today uh are succeeding when it comes to their personalization, their service, the technology they use. So I know you you can speak widely. You know, you uh Forbes travel guide is in 85 countries.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

100 plus now. We we've we've we've grown. Even in the time since uh we've spoken last, we've grown.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Amazing. Well, I've learned a lot over the last two years. And again, big thanks to you for uh for bringing me in and actually then for me to get to understand Forbes travel guide, the star rating system, the GMs that are so focused on attaining that status. Um but for all of our listeners that are just coming to understand Forbes travel guide, would you mind giving everyone a bit of an overview of the company and what it is you guys do?

What Forbes Travel Guide Really Does

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, historically we're more like Michelin guide. People were driving around the country looking for a place to stop, where to go. It was very much focused primarily on the consumer and and rather tactically. And then um our chairman Jeff had acquired the company uh maybe about uh uh uh 15, 20 years ago. And and we really shifted, say, how do we support the industry? In other words, how do we help elevate the level of luxury um by doing incognito inspections? We have 900 standards across hotel, restaurant, and spa alone. That doesn't even get into cruising or high-end residential or other verticals we we play with. And and you know, the thing about that is it's not gotcha, it's a matter of being able to understand how you're performing. And 75% of our ratings are service because you can have a beautiful hotel, but if the service is terrible, right, you you're not gonna come back. Um, I would also distinguish service from hospitality. So uh my friend Rick, who used to work for me when I was at JD Power, would tell the story about this wonderful dry cleaner you had. And he was the warmest guy. Rick, great to see you, big hug. How are the kids? He'd remember things week to week. The problem, Rick said, is he was a terrible dry cleaner. So you you need hospitality. I'd rather over-index with people in the DNA. But the service, right, those standards of excellence need to be there or it falls down. And actually, you know, a lot of people ask, and I think Dan, you and I, you know, previously you raised this as a great question to think about in advance of our conversation was, you know, what's the difference between a five-star hotel and one that hasn't quite achieved that? And a lot of people think about, you know, all this personalization over the top of stuff. The truth is, the simple truth is, it's about consistency, consistently delivering that hospitality and service at the highest level for each and every guest, each and every time. And, you know, even luxury hotels are made up of human beings. Somebody has something going on in their personal life or bad day. And that's why so much about the GMs, the ladies and gentlemen, are doing such an extraordinary job to inspire, to, to, to have the right types of people, but also to inspire them and to help them lead. And, you know, it's not a manufacturing line where something slightly comes out of tolerance, you adjust it once. We're human beings, we're providing service, and that takes training, that takes time. And we're also contending, as many have observed, you know, with challenges attracting enough talent to the industry. Part of that's because the industry's grown so much. Like luxury is going to double in size globally over the next five to six years, and we need to get an acceleration of the next generation of people. You can't clone a five-star, you know, um GM and have her him, you know, around the world just because there's twice as many properties. It's not just the GM, it's the head of rooms or the head of FMB, and it's every level in between coming up. So I think that's actually, I've shared, one of the hidden um opportunities and and acute needs is to maintain a high level of service and get enough folks inspired and delivering this wonderful industry because yeah, we can talk about some of the personalization and all of that as well. Technology helps, um, but you have to have that foundation first. And that's really the biggest difference between the five-star and non-five-star luxury here. Tell us other ones are doing an amazing job. They're just not doing it quite as frequently, consistently, each and every time throughout the year.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Well, and that's where most people, Forbes travel guide is very synonymous with the five-star rating. Tell us a little bit, because that was the part that I found really fascinating, is the how important the five-star rating is. And Jonathan mentioned to us in our opening episode that when Malcolm came to him with his recommendation, and Malcolm's been on two of our Forbes Travel Guide, travel trends episodes, and it was so cool for me to meet someone I've known for many years in the hospitality industry at a Forbes travel guide event, get his backstory as to how important that was for him to earn that certification, and also to convince someone like Jonathan, the group CEO. And now they're expanding it to more hotels because they're you know, and so tell everyone a little bit more about that five-star rating and then also how it's expanded because it's no longer just hotels.

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah, so Forbes Travel Guide started in 1958. I wasn't there, my hairline might have been. Um, in 1960, we added the fifth star. Um you know, unfortunately, we were smart enough to innovate it, but not enough to trademark it, which is ergo, Amazon and everybody else claims five stars. But the industry knows. You mentioned John Ryer, who's one of the most incredible Red Carnation Hotels, global luxury hospitality leaders in the world. And, you know, what they understand is it is a high standard. It's uncompromising. It you know, it'd be easier for us to say, well, okay, you told us this, we'll give you a little better thing. But if you have somebody audit you, you know, and you negotiate what it should be and you convince them to kind of increase the score and lower the standard, you you're really hurting your own guests and hurting your own prospects because the better experience someone has, the more they're gonna spend on property, the more they're gonna recommend, right? The more that that helps your brand. So we've we've been, you know, the independence and integrity has always been a part of that. What's evolved, and uh, you know, as I was starting to share when we um decided to focus more on the industry side about elevating excellence, you know, I think part of it too is sometimes there's a fixation on the stars. So on our main stage at the summit, um, you know, we had a speaker, uh, Dr. Aduana Kuala, who she is amazing, who literally had a slide, it wasn't spelled out in the word, that said F the ratings. And you're like, how would Forbes Travel Guide in Monaco at the summit put a speaker, a closing speaker, who absolutely crushed it? And and her point is one we agree with, which is don't chase the output. The the stars are a reflection of what you're doing in these fine ladies and gentlemen and the hard work and folks like Jonathan and Malcolm, you know, at Hotel 41 and Rubens, and they have the property in Edinburgh. But like that, that's that, like what you're doing each and every time. And then the stars are what comes out of it. And that really spawned the question in our history of how do you actually help beyond providing the the data, the diagnostics, the feedback, and the ability to benchmark and the standards that lead to that better experience. So it was actually when Steve Wynne in Las Vegas was looking to do luxury, and that seemed heretetical. Nobody, you know, people laughed. They're like, nobody's gonna like Vegas, luxury? Ironically, now it feels like it's all luxury. And at the time, our good friend Shane O'Flarity, who's now Microsoft's global MD of Hospitality and Travel, who I worked with when we were two or three global execs for Microsoft, um, he was CEO, a mobile guide when Jeff acquired it, our chairman, and it became Forbes Travel Guide. And Mr. Wynne turned to Shane and said, not how do I buy five stars, but he said, I want to create this experience. What do you recommend? What should I invest in? And Shane, you know, very wisely said, look, don't try to do it all at once. Do a hotel within a hotel. And that project that started with Mr. Wynn and the Wynn in Las Vegas, where we still have a very close relationship with Brian Goldbrons and the team globally, you know, is what led to this kind of advisory, consultative training service. We have among the best trainers in the world. I'm not a braggadocious person. They're like the TEDx of the training world. And on top of that, we've expanded into e-learning because when a trainer's there inspiring you, you need something, you know, bite-sized pieces every day, every week, every month. And we announced this year we're going to extend that to certifications to help support professionals so that they can learn a little bit each day, so they can share that on LinkedIn. So when they look for opportunities as kind of this opportunity to share where they've been and the recognition of the skills and talents to achieve at the highest level. But we've also expanded far beyond hotels, restaurants, um, and spas. I mentioned ocean and river cruising, but we also work with high-end automotive, we work with private clubs around the world, we work with um office buildings, we work with any and every category in retail and fashion that you can think of that has a hospitality service component. And that's become even more vital because, as we've all seen, hospitality is kind of the thread that unifies just about every service industry, including retail and where there's products beyond the clientelling in the booth, because it's how you create an emotional connection with your customer. And customers, especially at luxury, also want to live the lifestyle of the brand far beyond the bag or the fashion or the car, right? And and that has expanded, I think, us really to you know each and every industry that has a human touch point, an element of hospitality and service. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

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Innovation Role And Career Lessons

SPEAKER_02 21:56

And now, back to the show. And let's talk about your role specifically. Because Forbes Travel Guide is very fortunate to have you in this capacity. And I say that, you know, as someone who's known you for many years before your time there, but also seeing you in the industry throughout the time that you've been at Forbes Travel Guide. And you're such a powerful super connector. Obviously, people have a great affinity for you. So your role in many ways, and especially being innovation, I'll see you at the Virtuoso conference, I'll see you at ITB, you're at all the big industry conferences, and you're continuously making strong connections. I know you're involved with plug and play, but tell everyone about your executive vice president role at Forbes Travel Guide itself so that our listeners have a bit better understanding of what it is you do in that role.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Yeah. So I have a broad, broad swath, and it's changed over time. There were kind of three different components. There was during COVID, helping the company navigate that downturn and get in front of things, which I played a you know a leading role along with, you know, our CEO, Philip, who's wonderful at the time, our CFO and senior team. There was then the period coming out and trying to help support our clients and everybody stand back up. And then I think there's been this global growth where we've continued to expand, you know, and continue to find ways to add value and support of the ladies and gentlemen in the industry, you know, as well as broadly. So operationally, I lead our client success team. Um I lead our um and I'll put this in air quotes in a second. We have this Astria, this wonderful Discover Astria platform of curated vendors and suppliers to luxury hotels you should check out. Um that includes our official brands, which have a you know deeper kind of involvement in our community. And you can't buy a rating and you can't buy your way into the community. All of it is curated. It has to meet a certain standard. It's not meant to be elitist, it's simply having a high standard because we understand what luxury has to deliver and it has to fit with the priorities of the industry. So my role, you know, has spanned from strategically where is our growth going in support of our chairman Jeff and our CEO Herman and their vision for the company and bringing that to the company as a complement and support, and then all the way through execution operationally. I said in quotes, you know, we have uh Amy Zeller across our, you know, CRM and our client, you know, management area, and Chessa, um, who actually runs client success. They don't need me day-to-day. They're extraordinary. And for me to backfill and train, you know, so that um the the people coming behind me both are women, right? And and the Discover Astria is run by Avon, who's amazing, and and gradually being able to have her more and more entrepreneurially run that, they're they're more than capable, they're delivering. And so I can play more of a strategic role there. And there's a whole host of initiatives that have changed over time, right? From supporting the industry coming out of COVID to launching new products. Um, I've played a role, you know, in in many of them. And it's really whatever Herman may need at a given point in time. So I'm kind of like um uh a Swiss Army knife. And I want to make just one or two other observations that I think are um, you know, universally applicable to you and your career, whatever your stage is, which is the same way people come up through hotels and they apprentice, if you will, at different battle stations, you know, from ballet and eventually front desk and rooms and F and B, and they're cross-chaining and they're learning the connective tissue. So eventually when they're in the position of a Malcolm or a Jonathan at a leadership level, they understand how the pieces come together and they've got the connective tissue. My career, we have um so many extraordinary leaders, Amanda, Megan, Gina, um, who've grown up in luxury hospitality, Laurel from kind of the marketing and product. Notice these are all women I've mentioned that are senior leaders. Um we have a tremendous um uh representation of women um at every level and especially at the executive level. And from director and up, it's uh, you know, 65% plus, it may be even be more from lower levels and 50% at the executive team level. And so I think the thing is what I bring is this compliment I've always pursued in my career, even though I've changed and hospitality has been a threat, and I came back to in depth like, am I learning? Can I add value? Um, you know, between stretch, too much stretch and you tear a muscle, too little sitting on the couch doing nothing and you're not growing. And at certain times, making calculated risks of taking, you know, bigger risks. Those are the things when I look back professionally into my personal life were the greatest growth that led to the future positions. So there are some people who know, hey, I want to be a CFO, I want marketing. There's nothing wrong with that. Go deep. But, you know, I think any organization you have, you need both. You need the people that are kind of world-class and tremendous in understanding the expertise. We have plenty of folks in luxury hotels and operations that I could spend the rest of my career doing would never come close to even touching like a hundredth of what Herman has as an example. But what I bring is how do I complement that? How do I bring having led strategy, having led PL, having led operations, having done startup that became a unicorn or a big tech company? How do I bring innovation to that? And then because of that, that network, I can help connect dots within the company and to your point at events outside in ways that unlock value. And I love doing that. Not everything, you know, if you go to an event and you meet somebody and they're talking about, hey, this is what's important, then you meet someone else and you're like, you two should meet. Take the two minutes to walk them over and introduce them, or do that by email. Because, you know, I think, you know, if you only think transactionally through just your company and what you need right then, you know, you're gonna wind up finding that, you know, okay, maybe that works for selling some things, but this is a relationship long-term business. And for a global industry that's 11% of global GDP, it is an incredibly small world. Your reputation matters, how you treat people, how you engage, and building trust, which is earned over time, not given, is what matters. So don't be transactional. Think more broadly when you meet people, whether at events or as part of your company.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Seeing you in action, you know, you definitely walk the walk. And um, and a lot of people, you know, talk up and but you have been one of the people that I've seen really um um showcase this uh uh continuously. And I know that's one of the things that uh many people love about you, Stuart. And obviously, so um, but I and jokingly, I I was actually gonna start playing a s a snoring soundtrack just at the end of you talking there, just like as if I'd as if I'd gone to sleep. Uh but I was like, what but what you were saying was far too important and meaningful that I was like, I can't I can't end on that.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

I I actually have recorded myself uh reading uh old phone books. Those are where phone numbers used to be for those too young to remember, um, and reading the ingredient list off the boxes of cereal boxes. Um it is a guaranteed insomnia cure. You'll be asleep in two to three minutes listening to the recording. The irony is when I'm on stage, I have a different voice that comes out and persona. But uh yes, master of the monitone. That should be my moniker.

Why The Summit Works In Monaco

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Well, let's talk about that. How because events, you know, not only do you attend events, you're obviously the Forbes travel guide. The summit, no, you brought me in. You've just come back from that in Monaco this year. And as you highlighted, the team, obviously, you know, Jennifer, Amanda Laurel, I've had a privilege to meet and work with that team. And I can say from my experience, I definitely mentioned this in our last episode, but just uh for anyone who's just listening to this the first time, we have these two incredible seasons from the Forbes Travel Guide, the summit, inspired by Stuart, but led by Amanda and Jennifer, who we work closely with to guest all of these. And when I was reflecting in putting this together, I've put together, I took all the transcripts and I um analyzed them using uh ChatGPT to figure out what are some of the insights that came from those conversations and some that stood out to me that yes, I recall that, others that that uh that surfaced I thought was interesting. So I've I've got a few of those that I'm keen to share with our listeners. But even when I look at the balance, the um the balance is more like 40% female. And um and uh that team was actually, and many of these people not only were the ones that they nominated uh to be interviewed based on their role and significance in the industry and what they've accomplished, but they were the ones going up for awards at both of the events. And I I realized that afterwards, especially when the first year I was in Vegas, I should have been betting on it. I had the list of people I interviewed. I should have known uh that night as I sat at the table that one after another they were going up to collect awards. So tell us, I guess, first of all, for any of our listeners that are not familiar with the summit, uh the importance of bringing everyone together, why it became international moving from Vegas to Monaco, and how successful the second year was you just had.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah. So I think, you know, the the summit has become where luxury and travel and hospitality meet globally, and not just hotel or hospitality or travel, but you know, we talked about fashion and jewelry and automotive. We had Bugatti on the stage. Um they were back this year. We actually had several Bugattis out front. Um we have you know, CEOs of some of the major um, you know, jewelry and fashion businesses. We have all sorts of industries represented because hospitality, as I shared, is the thread through everything. And I think part of the reason, if you think about all of the best events, ITB, ILTM, Virtuoso, you know, L E Miami around the world and whatever it is, it's kind of the best elements that everybody loves about a lot of them, that human connection, that community education, inspiration. But ours isn't focused commercially. And what I mean by that is not an implied criticism of the others. The others like ILTM, you need buyers and sellers meeting, coming together. But it really is this rare um where it's not commercially focused. It's not like, you know, I ironically, I think because of that, people are relaxed and they create connection and business opportunities naturally arise. We have official brands and this curated collection of Astria suppliers called Astria Live that are there as well. But it's not a trade show. And most of the focus is really, I would say, first and foremost for us. It's our ability to give hospitality back to all those giving it each and every day throughout the year. It is incredibly humbling, especially for me who hasn't led hotel operations, to be able to give that back to so many people who have not just given it to myself and my colleagues personally, but who do it and knowing just how hard that is and how gratifying to be able to say thank you and create in Monaco a luxury, right? Luxury market, an immersive experience that is, you know, all of the five senses of sight and sound and experience taking over Hotel de Paris that never shut down the hotel for a private event before, having Michelin chefs being able to live the environment that the ladies and gentlemen's in their guests experience, but instead of them having to be working at it, they can just relax and themselves experience what they put out there and be inspired and have these new education and speakers talking about what's coming next. For example, Joe Pine and the transformation economy, what happens after experiences. And, you know, he happened to have a new book coming out, which I just happen to have here. This isn't as an intended as a plug for Joe, but like all each and every speaker of her and his own right, and collectively create this overall kind of inspiration, education. We're celebrating, you know, those leaders, the young, young uh concierge of the year, the employee of the year award are like two of the most um, you know, um, I would say uh uh you know important awards that everyone loves. A standing ovation for the employee of of the of the world, who is a uh a young woman who you know started in reservations and really her hospitality has earned her this global recognition where we fly her the event. Um I do want to say too, you you touched on this. 50% of our speakers this year at the event were women, a full 27%, maybe more, excluding gender, were diverse. That means there are people of color. Opening Chris uh keynote happened to be Chris Gardner, happens to be, you know, African American, but um, you know, people of different ethnic backgrounds, people LGTBQIA plus. You know, so the representation of our community, our our our global industry welcomes everyone and serves everyone. And our guests, our leaders, our colleagues, right, around the world are all global. And to me, you know, that's part of hospitality is when people travel, their brains are different, as one of our speakers shared. They're open to kind of learning and engaging in different ways. We want to ensure that our community is represented and reflected in the diversity that exists already. We're one of the most diverse industries globally, and we want to reflect that back. We also want the next generation. We had F1 Academy driver Alba, the fastest girl in the world, who just turned 17 recently and has a 10-year deal with Ferrari on her stage talking about how she never saw other girls in front of her. Instead of waiting for the system to change, she started a foundation because she wants to be a positive role model for girls in racing. So it's both reflected implicitly, but also explicitly in myself, Amanda, Herman, and the team. We we we we find extraordinary speakers and talents who also happen to reflect that diversity secondarily, if you will. There's no compromise.

Standout Talks And Big Themes

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, no, and that's clear. I was gonna say you can mention Joe Pine anytime as well, since not only am I a big fan of his has been on our podcast three times in the last seven months, as he said he's not done any podcast as frequently as he's done ours, but because he's really enjoyed the experience. And this is where, you know, I'm very convinced that good people know good people. And when you, you know, you have Joe Pine go to an event like he did with you, um, he met Laura Stilio Pivat, who's a great friend of uh mine, a great supporter of our podcast at uh Perno Ricard. She was so excited to be there uh at Force Travel Guide the Summit for the first time this year. And she sent me a picture of her and Joe Pine together, and that was really lovely to see. And and so um Joe was obviously one of the speakers I've seen, so I know he's a great speaker. Um the F1 racer was actually one of the people that stood out to me. But what what were some of the other standouts from this year? And then I I want to get into some of the luxury trends you're seeing in the future of hospitality, but I want to stay on the topic of the summit because so much happens in those uh few days together. And I still talk about some of the highlights. And in the last episode, I talked about the uh um the consultants um that were talking about uh solo female travelers, 50 plus divorce a widowed using GLP1. And um uh Emily caught me up that it's now 20% in the US, and it was an updated version of that same talk, which so tell us about some of the other uh uh sessions that you guys had there and some of the other big takeaways from the conference.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Yeah, that was Allison from PWC talking about the impact of GLP1s and even the degree to which kind of the the foodies have like shifted uh the subset then to more kind of venture type travel of getting out and more activity as a result. Um, you know, Chris Gardner is the opening keynote talking about, you know, the the dream is free, you know, but the plan will cost you and and and that it's important that you need to invest, right, and be tenacious. And and his story is so inspiring to begin with. And I think he's got that, I I think like you need to record or get a clip of like his laugh because everybody, it it is the most like hearty, heartfelt, unique. Uh, you know, it's almost like this embodiment of joy in just just his laughter. I mean, we we had so many speakers, we had, you know, a world explorer talking about, you know, who's climbed every peak. And of course, he was the first one to show up at our gala black tie dinner. Uh, of course. I I joke, I think he was there a little bit early because of part of it. But, you know, what we have is kind of the main stage where there's inspiring, but then people like Joe and and Ernst, who is, you know, this this amazing, intrepid explorer all over the world, you know, have these breakout sessions. And in fact, we're inviting Dr. Koala back, who gave the closing keynote to see if she's amenable to do a deeper dive because people loved, you know, her message. And a lot of it was around this emotional like engagement. You know, oftentimes, you know, we get so caught up in, you know, the business, which, you know, has become harder, I think, which makes the the GMs and and their teams even more extraordinary of trying to manage this industry structure and pressure for profit, experience, right, operations, all of the moving parts. But um, you know, the this notion of caring, you know, Horse Schultz said it last year in Inspire, like, you know, the the caring is kind of the, and I've say like the hospitable has gotten squeezed out of hospitality from 25 years of cumulative asset light. And I think some of that's coming back. And I think some of what Joe talks about about, you know, beyond experiences, people are traveling now, you know, for passion first, location often secondary, and and and sometimes brand third. You know, it's not a monolith, right? There's still people you still want to get the picture, or somebody wants to see The Eiffel Tower. But how can hospitality align to support people's passions and what it is that's activating them in a given trip, especially for leisure? Granted, like you business trip, you're you're coming in late and you're leaving early, you want to be able to be supported and your best business self. That might be a little different depending on the nature of the hotel. But I think, you know, each and every one of these speakers added different elements. And then we get into the breakouts. We had a great one on AI on the main stage with um the future laboratory and uh gentlemen who presented there. And then um I led an AI session that we had Shannon McCallan, Resorts War Las Vegas, who leads hotel operations, and we had Janet Semenova, BTA um advisors, boutique travel advisors, each of whom are probably among the most forward-leaning in tech and innovation while still understanding the human experience matters at different scale, the scale of Vegas versus the scale of a travel agency. And then we had our good friend Guy Ladd talk about the future. And what was really vitally important to me was that it's good to be inspired up here, but that session was focused on actual use cases. What are people actually doing when it comes to the LLMs and marketing? How are you actually doing? What have you learned? What did you implement? Um, not necessarily what was the hard ROI OAs, but like what is the benefits you've seen and what are you doing in the year ahead? And that is where I think the industry is continuing to go. That's why I love your AI travel trend event every year, because I think being a virtual event allows you to bring the best speakers from all over without deference to geography or schedule constraints and bring the topics that really matter. So encourage folks to make sure they look out for that and sign up. Because to me, that's one of the best collections of where are we as an industry as we move from like the conceptual and theoretical, which still matter of where we're going, right? It's great, Claude Cloak and like, you know, and agents can go in the wild and this could be bleeding edge, but that's not enterprise grade security. It's not safe, it's not all of these things. But maybe you're seeing the bleeding edge of what will happen in the following years when all of that can get figured out. In the meantime, everybody needs to know like what I can do today and how to do it. And I think that's where the industry could really use more support. That's why our session was focused on that.

AI Use Cases That Matter Now

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Yeah, that's great. And obviously, I know you've got a deep expertise in AI, and you've obviously led our um sessions the last two years at our AI summit on this topic around hospitality, and then also uh our good friend Shane, who you mentioned, and those sessions are available on our YouTube channel. So just if if you want to go back and see Stuart, Shane, or look at the hospitality, and we'll be announcing our event for the end of October very shortly, so that'll be coming up. But the one thing with your event, because it's very coincidental their name the summit, the people that come together for your event, you know, there were so many standouts, and obviously we've produced about 30 different episodes from the two seasons, but we finished season two with an episode that had Mark Friedland, who Couture Communications, someone who I'd met over the year before. You know, they produced the uh the cards for many years for the Academy Awards, the Oscars, and like their print work is really impressive. And so they're an important partner as part of the ecosystem. Jeanette uh Staya, as well, who's obviously uh an award-winning travel journalist.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Yeah, chat's sat with Jeanette.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Exactly. She's amazing. And then the other person that was uh their presentation was a huge standout for me, uh Freddie Morose, who is the founder of Mindstream. And I was I really intrigued to have him on the podcast because I got a chance to meet his team and that session they did on stage, like that was mind-blowing for me. Where you know, them they brought in someone that had uh only they didn't was unable to see. Um, but just based on their their ability to hear and play piano, um, they could pick up any melody and they brought in the uh the doctor you've been working with. Yeah. So tell tell us, yeah, what they did this year.

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_00 43:12

This year they went into like, you know, kind of the the notion of like memory and how certain, you know, visual or sound elements can evoke, you know, the same way certain smells and everything else. And this is what I mean about like when you try to define the summit, it defies definition because it's so many of these things. It's this immersive experiential, it's what what luxury hospitality is. It's almost like the living embodiment of that. Plus, you have this incredible community and human connection at its core where where people have the time and the ability not just to kind of celebrate which is lovely and reconnect. A lot of these folks know each other, you know, over the years, but at most other events, like it's so uh you know, focused on like the business of the business. That like they don't have that ability to be a guest, to immerse, to be inspired, to have conversations and talk about the things that matter and where we're going. And it doesn't mean every speaker is something everyone's going to agree with every point. In fact, it's also meant to provoke and you know, things about where is the right balance with AI and luxury, since you know, it's about human connection, or um, you know, so I think the those types of things that have made the summit this like, you know, must-attend event. And to your point, of like all of the interviews you've done, I can't wait to like we're happy to introduce you to another like, you know, four or five dozen, because we're just scratching the surface of these amazing leaders around the world across 100 plus countries that we're in and probably several others that we're not yet, but will be, I'm sure, soon. Um, that, you know, their their leadership and their perspective and how things are evolving, you know, is one of the wonderful things. I think part of the reason why luxury, it's not about elitism from my perspective, always been driven in my career by curiosity learning, is there's the most texture, there's the most density that whether it's design, whether it's experience with F B, it represents the highest articulation of that. And so there's so much more going on in terms of hospitality and complexity and and and just um emotional um activation that happens, that um there's nothing wrong with like a clean hotel and a and a great, you know, good enough warm breakfast or a place to stay with good Wi-Fi. Like, you know, um, but like that's different. I think there's a bifurcation, there's nothing wrong with either of lodging and accommodation. And what is true experience? And you see experience at boutique hotels where a lot of innovation happens, even uh in lifestyle hotels. Um, and so I think it's it's not that it has to be exclusive to the highest price point. It's just that there's a reflection that there's more capacity then for more experientially. And to me, that's more interesting. The other parts of the industry are interesting to me too, very interesting. But that's where scale and technology will play a more prominent role sooner. Um, I would love for everybody, even economy budget, to have eye contact, a warm smile. You don't need to be a luxury hotel to provide hospitality and service, but it's a little bit easier, but the expectations are also higher of the guest at luxury. A good example is Drury Hotels, which uh for umpteenth year has won the JD Power Award, because for their mid-scale um customers, relative to the expectation of what they're paying for and the value of a mid-scale hotel, Drury does an extraordinary uh, you know, Chuck Drury and then um Eric, who's uh who leads it for Chuck, uh, of creating that hospitality and that service relative to the price point and what's in a mid-scale hotel. It's not saying you'd confuse going to Drury with going into the Amana New York, but relative to the expectations, Drury scores just as high in JD Power scores as many of the top luxury hotel brands because they exceed and deliver on that experientially in hospitality. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

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How Partners Fit Without Selling

SPEAKER_02 48:58

And now, back to the show. Now the event itself is invite only, and I I did hear from Emily and Marlene that you're back in Monaco next year. So for those people who are listening to this, and then I want to get into some of the trends for luxury hospitality in 2026, but just to finish off on the Force Travel Guide Summit, as I understand it, 2027 will be back in Monaco. Any other final uh takeaways that would be worth letting everyone know, especially if they want to potentially partner with the team for 2027?

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the exciting things for us is just like our clients, you know, you're like, wow, we did this. And then the next day you're like, well, how are we going to top ourselves next year? And you know, the exciting thing is, I mean, that's what the ladies and gentlemen need to do each and every day with guests that come back and keep things fresh and exciting and think about different ways to build on what you know about it. So we we we learn, we get feedback, we learn from each event. Um, I think after this year, a lot really came together uh amazingly. And I know Amanda and I have already spoken privately about some themes for next year. I've already, you know, uh, you know, shared um about a dozen or two dozen potential speakers and topics and things I don't want to give much away. And ultimately Herman, right, and Amanda, um, who leads the program for us, I'm just a kind of conduit and funnel of taking, you know, the opportunity from all the different folks I see in here and seeing the trends, and it'll evolve. I mean, obviously, closer to the event, some things are going to matter a little differently, you know, than maybe right now. But thematically, um, we're excited. There, you know, there's opportunities to submit people for speakers. What we don't really have is like this kind of paid promotional, get somebody on stage, you know, talk about your product. Like we, you know, even even our brands that are part of this curation, it's not a selling event. It's relationship, it's experiential, it's informational. Um, so you know, for us, if you know, if you are one of our clients or engage with us, that's obviously an opportunity because there is a focus on that. Um, if you have a point of view that's unique, that you know, and and we try, there are some speakers. Sometimes it uh, you know, I feel badly if I, you know, inadvertently wound friends. Like if we had the same people each and every year, it wouldn't be as fresh. There wouldn't be as new perspectives. And so by definition, we tend to rotate and seek additional perspectives, even with people that have great perspectives we love or may have presented once or twice before. That's not meant to disparage or say, oh, you can't, you know, come next next year. Um, I should also mention we we we do a tremendous amount of work with like custom standards and these other industries, which my colleague Sylvia leads. And so even if you're not in hospitality or you're not luxury, we still work with other brands. We have e-learning that works, that isn't just luxury. So sometimes I think there's a a mistake and assumption that everything's luxury. We take what we know across at the leading edge of luxury across a hundred plus countries and all sorts of industries, but then we adapt and adjust that based on each client's specific unique needs and the space they play in. And oftentimes that's also bringing an element that isn't luxury, you know, products or services or brands to be able to provide that to help them elevate, you know, where they are.

Culture, Teams, Emotional Luxury

SPEAKER_02 52:17

That's great. And to finish off, and then one of the things I want to make sure that we cover is the key trends in luxury hospitality as you've seen them both from the summit this year as well as all of the hospitality brands you work across. And uh, just as a segue to that, what I wanted to share with our listeners that we will likely put into a blog post as part of this series was taking all of those insights from those conversations, I put together the top five insights on luxury hospitality. And I'm just gonna share these now because some of them obviously will maybe consistent with what you're seeing, Stuart. So some of them might be underscored, and then others uh might be new to to enter into the consideration set. But uh the first one was culture is the foundation of five-star hospitality, and that really luxury hospitality isn't built on a checklist, it's built on culture. And the most successful hotels embed that service into every layer of the organization, uh, from the leadership to the frontline teams, and that really luxury hospitality is a mindset, not a manual, which is literally what you were referring to when you talked about closing the conference. It was not about the checklist, it's about a culture. So that was the number one. Uh, number two was employee experience powers guest experience. And one of the uh terms that Stuart continually used throughout this interview that I found really interesting was ladies and gentlemen. And actually, I learned that from Mark Langovin. And when I was interviewing him, the number of GMs that refer to ladies and gentlemen are much more um uh professional, polite. And so his I heard from every leader, great teams are what create great guest experiences. So investing in training, career growth, and uh prioritizing building strong teams, that if you take care of your team, they'll take care of your guests.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

None of us can give great hospitality to other people when you know we don't feel taken care of. You know, you you need to put your oxygen mask on first before you can take care of other people. And so I think you know, great leaders, you know, the ladies and gentlemen harkens back to Horse Schultz, the you know, famous, you know, uh co-founder of Ritz Carlton, who also you know launched Capella, which is another amazing uh brand and and and and the terminology. And there's some some that may have a more contemporary view, but you know, we're using ladies and gentlemen, maybe they have a different cultural or brand sensibility. To me, what it reflects is not necessarily everyone has to call ladies and gentlemen, but it's that that notion of treating the colleagues um, you know, uh as important and as well as you treat guests. It doesn't mean that you put like the colleagues on top of or above the, you know, some people will say, well, in service to guests, you you're not like an equal to the guests, you're serving. I I think that loses the script. To me, this notion of, and and great leaders like Jonathan Ragart, um, understand I remember the first time I I met with him uh and and read Carnation a number of years ago, the adulation, genuine warmth. I see it with Anna at the Broadmoor, which is the longest continuous five-star hotel going back, you know, to 1960 when we invented it. And I strongly suspect, and Anna wasn't there back then, just to be clear, but I strongly suspect before we had the fifth star, that property was delivering, you know, what we would have called five and rated five-star service. And when she walked, uh I I always ask for a back-of-house tour. If you're ever going to property, ask for a back-of-house tour. You can feel things when you walk on a property almost instantly, the attenuation, the detail, how pe how colleagues interact with each other, the guest dynamic, et cetera. But ask somebody to do a back-of-house tour. And man, the love that Anne had, you know, walking around, like not just like family, like she is the culture like embodied in a person. And and it takes nothing away from you know, her boss, you'd tell you, and I got to see him, he's wonderful, you know, what they do at the Broadmoor. You know, the the the degree to which that reflects how you treat people, right? Some of which is policies, but a lot of which is, you know, personality and caring and empathy and flexibility, you know, I I think um when you think about those things, um, you think about, you know, yourself in your own life. And when you're really performing and inspired, you feel supported, you feel psychic safety, you feel empowered, right? You don't feel belittled, you don't feel micromanaged, you don't feel denigrated. And and and that to me, I think when we see things like NOPA in the press, the or Noma, excuse me, um, you know, the chef that was physically and emotionally abusive, there is this, you know, leading from light, you know, as opposed to leading from this darkness of yes, chef, and that kind of culture. That I think it's changing that I think is a is a good thing for our industry, healthy, and for the next generation of leaders for whom that's vitally important, emotional well-being. And and you have to understand the current generation's different. You're dealing with multiple generations and different sensibilities from a guest and when and how they want to be engaged, just as when we went from traditional, more formal luxury to more authentic luxury that enforcement of montage really pioneered. We're also dealing with that multi-generational shift, both from uh uh guest facing, but also from a colleague facing and how younger people think about, you know, careers, jobs, emotional well-being, how they're treated, how they're inspired. And that can be confounding, right? That can be frustrating because, you know, we're all well back in my day. But, you know, if if you have that approach, you might be right, but it's gonna wind up leading to you not having much of a business because you can't attract top talent if you're not treating them in ways thing, just like speaking a different language or different cultural sensibilities, you need to adapt your approach, I think. And that was part of the conversation, one of the most well-attended parts of our um of our summit this past year.

SPEAKER_02 58:07

Well, and clearly the how you treat people is how they're going to treat their guests. And so the third for this list, and I'm only going to mention one more and hand it back to you, uh, Stuart, is that emotional connection is the new luxury. So shifting a transactional to personal guests remember how they feel um more than what they receive. And it's not about the amenities, it's about those personalized touches, anticipating preferences, building relationships. That ultimately is what drives loyalty and guests return to a hotel uh based on how it makes them feel. And so if your staff feels like they're walking around on eggshells, um, you'll you'll sense that as a guest. So um so and then the last one, and this is where it's a perfect segue to you, was that the future of luxury blends high-tech, high touch, and responsibility that technology should enhance, not replace human service so that the best hotels are removing friction while still creating meaningful, memorable, and responsible guest experiences. And so this whole idea of human, conscious. So tell us, Stuart, obviously that I'm sure is still a major theme for 26, but what are the standouts for you?

LLM Search And Reputation Economics

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Yeah, I'll share from the AI breakout. So I shared some data. I spoke at the Luxury Roundtable, our good friend uh Mickey Alam Khan runs in New York City. Um, you should check out Luxury Roundtable, they've got some great events. And um, I spoke there alongside, so I represent Forbes Travel Guide, we had uh McKinsey, we had uh UBS Wealth and a lot of others at Luxury Speaking and a lot of great content. McKinsey shared some slides that said, you know, in the LLM, and there's a lot of information and actually too much misinformation on, you know, agentic search. In other words, SEO has to continue being done. But how am I going to show up in the LLM search, especially if somebody's only gonna get maybe a subset of recommendations? And clearly, as you have AI summaries even on Google, right, if you look at uh Gemini, um it reduces the clicks through, right? Because people get it. But only 20% or less of how you're showing up in the LLMs, right? And this is recent McKinse data, is based on the things that you need to do. So I'm not saying you you you don't have to do this, but like, you know, is my site readable? Do I, you know, have you know my marketing collateral? Is it you know reflected in a way the LLMs, the things I control? But more than 80% is reputational. It's the things you don't control digitally, um, you know, things of what's your reputation? How are people talking? Blog sites, rating sites. And I did something and I said, well, it's a little self-serving. And I said, okay, it's a lot self-serving. We're asked the question like, where can I find the best luxury hotels in their ratings? Um and I asked ChatGPT in this case. Um, I did it a year ago and I did it three days before the summit. It's at Forbes Travel Guide, and it talked about our service orientation and about being the most rigorous and most trusted and why it is. Your reputation matters. And the irony of this is ultimately, what's your reputation built on? Like, yeah, if you try to put a thumb on the scale or have people, the LLMs are gonna see through that. Each LLM that's dominant today, McKinsey data should have four of them have different sources. That's gonna evolve over time. Google search, there were times early on when like suddenly they would change something in the algorithm that made it better, and suddenly you disappeared for a period of panic until it matured, and then the the variability was a lot less. Well, um, you know, that'll change. But most of the models have the same thing, which is, you know, ultimately you need to do two things. And and this is where we're we're so excited to support the industry, because, you know, ultimately, what is that ground truth of what you said, Dan? Of how do you feel when you're on the property? What is the operational experience? Because in our industry, the rubber meets the road the moment you step on a property. The experience starts before that. But when you do it, if you are delivering exceptional service consistently, if you're then, yes, going above and beyond and doing the personalization, ultimately, and if you're differentiated, like have a point of view, a friend to everyone is a friend to no one. I think was a Socrates quote, which means like if you're trying to appeal to everyone and you're so bland, you're not really going to stand out. So how are you differentiating as a property? What are the unique things that are there? And I'll give you a specific example of that. You know, our ratings reflect that because it is a reflection of that service, which is why Forbes Travel Guide was number one in that list as far as being, you know, the most rigorous, trustworthy, dependable source when it comes to luxury hotels. And then obviously the work we do with other clients, we we apply that expertise. You know, my friend Guillaume Benizek, who ran um the Ritz-Carlton in Toronto at a five-star level and then joined the global brand team for Ritz-Carlton, Ritz-Carlton Reserve under Tina Edmondson's wonderful leadership. And this isn't to bias to Ritz-Carlton versus, you know, um every other luxury hotel brand. I'm just using this as an example. They came up with these five signature experiences at each property, but it wasn't random. It was what is unique to the property, that place authentically. You know, are there craft people there where there's a unique relationship and something they do with culturally that makes sense for this, you know, people say authentic experiences. They're curated, but they're curated to feel authentic, to be immersive, to be engaging, to expand yourself in a way that really differentiated each one of the properties. As a start, I don't mean the only thing. This is just one small example of saying, like, how do I stand out? Because when there's only three or five recommendations that come back for something I'm looking for, well, if you're a low-cost player, there's probably room for only, I don't know, maybe two or three results, because low cost is low cost. It's undifferentiated, it's price. But if you're differentiated, I'm probably going to hue and bias more towards the subset of one. So how are you going to show up? And ultimately the training of your staff, the culture, the differentiation, and how you deliver excellence is going to what makes you stand out. Otherwise, if you're somewhere in the middle and you're just okay enough, you know, you still have a business if you're in a good location or part of a big brand. But, you know, are you really going to stand out in ways that people are looking for and show up in that subset of results in the future? I think it's going to be a lot harder.

Constant Change To Stay Luxury

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

For sure. And I appreciate that that's certainly a big focus area for you, I know, is the AI and technology. In terms of the some of the overall trends you're seeing, you mentioned about the growth rates of luxury travel over the next five years. And that's where I ultimately want to finish this conversation is you know, looking at the future of luxury hospitality and how bright that is, even though we are, you know, now in challenging times again, given the developments in the Middle East and geopolitics. And, you know, so there's and I know you have been a big advocate for you know making sure that um, you know, the the hoteliers that you know couldn't travel from the Middle East this year and Dubai and Saudi Arabia. I mean, obviously that region is now incredibly challenged and had such a a bright future in luxury hospitality. And so, you know, these so but tell us a little bit about how you do see the future of luxury hospitality and ultimately what keeps you motivated and so positive and upbeat. I I know because I feel it when I'm at an event like that, that you know, the human connection and the and so you walk away um feeling so empowered and inspired.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Yeah. There are all these changes, all these trends, and you can probably do like 150 different trends or like micro trends, and you know, you could bucket them. You probably have Chat GPT or other LLMs, and you know, all of them are true. This notion of how can AI enable productivity to free folks up to focus more? Can we use that to do, you know, better personalization? Abra hospitality is a great example of a startup that's bridging the last mile of luxury hospitality and experience delivery, you know, putting it at the fingertips instead of you know boards and trying to find information in 10 different systems. Um, you know, you can talk about this notion of traveling for passion and purpose and things that we've talked about or transformation. So I think you know, there there's so many things, longevity and and well being. I'm speaking at a summit in Cologne, Germany. With FIBO, um, that Judith Cartwright of uh award-winning Black Coral Consulting is leading, and she used to be Kirzner's global head of SVP and distribution, and a lot of things I think around longevity and well-being that right now are ultra-luxury at some point, price points, and some of that will kind of come down to mass adoption while people are going up. Um, so I, you know, for me, I think about a quote, and um, this is a uh one of the senior executives at Hermes, um, you know, the the the very high-end ultra-luxury brand that, you know, many people uh growing up in my my native language of New Jersey, we would say Hermes, but um, so the French brand, right? Um, Hermes said, you know, we have to constantly change in order to remain the same. How do you take a heritage brand that has has that continuity and that you know consistency of that luxury, that high-end, all of that? And in order to stay the same, the executive remarked that they have to constantly change and innovate. And and that is, I think, the essence of luxury hospitality. Human connection has to remain at the center. Um, guest tastes change, trends come and go, different things come in and out, you know, innovation, experiential, all of that. Everybody has to innovate the game. And in social media, it's hard because surprise and delight used to be a wonderful thing. Now people can discover just about everything. As soon as you launch it, somebody made a video of it, right, and posted it online for the world to see. So I think the more is the the thing that like remaining the same is how do I make each and every guest feel special? And that may be different depending on the trip and context. Um, you you're not going to be able to do everything in the entire experience each and every time at every stuff. So you got to kind of pick and choose and how do you do that overall? And and a lot of that is just the engaging hospitality. Like I said, it's consistently, we know it when we feel it, right? We know it when you feel like somebody's really warm and engaging, even if they're just like asking if you'd like another cup of coffee. We you close your eyes and I'm like, how can I help you? How can I help you? How can I help you? Right? Like the I want to help you, I'm indifferent, and like you're bothering me, interrupting my day by me trying to serve you. So we're human beings. There's a lot that's intuitive, and it comes down to, I think, ironically, even with um technology, the focus still the North Star is that. And if you lose that in pursuit of technology innovation, and maybe fair enough, different at certain segment scales where it's more accommodation and lodging. I'm not delighting in it, or as a business model, it's it's it's more transactional than relationship. But as you get up to luxury, I think that's gonna constantly evolve. And I do see that um, you know, we have to each and every year constantly change in order to remain the same. I love that. I think that's a perfect way to end.

Allyship, Data, And Closing Notes

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Yeah, that's great. Thank you, Stuart. I'm obviously I was thrilled to finally have you on the podcast, and we're gonna continue to do more collaborations together, especially as we focus on uh hospitality as we continue with Travel Trends Podcasts. And so I obviously I want to say thank you so much for bringing us into this space, for being such a uh um an advocate for what we're doing with Travel Trends Podcast right from the very beginning and the Virtuoso in those rooms, meeting people like Jessica Blodder from Kind Traveler, some of these organizations that you've been involved in and giving them a voice and an opportunity. And so um I've loved all those collaborations. I'm thrilled that we finally made this happen, and I'm looking forward to more. But let's let's make sure any of our listeners that are just coming to uh to know you that if they want to reach out on LinkedIn, what would be the best ways for our listeners to reach out and connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

LinkedIn's great. Um, I travel a bit, so sometimes there's a lag. So um, but it, you know, put something in there. I I get quite a bit of spam, but I can usually tell the difference. And if I haven't responded, please give me a gentle nudge after, you know, a week or two. It may just be, you know, obviously I've uh quite a bit on my plate in my day job, and I love my free time evenings and weekends doing all this connection uh with folks. And then again, congratulations to you, Dan. Um, you know, I say the connection, you know, and and opening some doors. Um, you you and your team who I met who are extraordinary have earned each and every bit of it and have grown and had such a positive impact in the AI summit and all these other events that um that is a hundred percent all of you, just like Jesse and her business, right, adding connection to expand opportunities. And and I'd say to people like me, be an ally. Like, you know, whether it's women, diversity, innovation, you know, the the the capital, the opportunities, the data shows that it's not a level playing field. And the only difference is connecting. I was part of the Women in Travel CIC program and Mina's a female founder. And the difference of me being able to do some connections and and add some credibility and simply enable everything that she's already worked hard to do, the difference of her success or failure wasn't based on product market fit or everything else. It was literally a couple intros that could have meant the difference between her getting into this accelerator program or not. She's done all the work. But as an ally, especially when women and diverse people aren't in the room that aren't represented, give them voice, give them recognition, give them opportunity, understand in meetings when people don't speak up, ask them their opinion, right? Um that's part of leadership is knowing that diverse teams outperform and you're better off, you know, with an environment where you can get the collective talents. Because again, our community, our guests, um, our leaders, our industry is diverse. And uh whether Harvard Business School McKinsey study after study shows empirically that diverse teams simply outperform. So that would be my last kind of exhortation is help create connection, help unlock doors for people like me, be an ally actively, not just in our day job or or what we need to do transactionally for a business, but more relationship and giving back. I think there's a famous quote, and and and I'll end on this, you know, um, and Chip Conley often cites this where, you know, the the the the um the the purpose of life is to discover your gift. The the work of life is to develop it, but the meaning of life is to give your gift away. So um, and you don't have to be um have a hairline like mine to do that. You can do that at every stage and every age of your life and career, personally and professionally.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:27

I was gonna say you're giving it all away with that hairline. Clearly, you're I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:31

I'm getting there. We're gonna have there we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

Oh, that's awesome. I love that. I I uh, you know, have someone who's raised by a single mom and grew up in such a multicultural neighborhood in Toronto. I've always looked around the room in the meetings that I've been in and always valued when I see that diversity. And unfortunately, we live in a time where all of a sudden there's a lot of pushback against that. I was in Europe just recently at ITB, and I just wanted to call this out because it's important not to just acknowledge your virtue signal. And I think that's one of the concerns people have. And I was meeting with people in Europe and I was working on plans for the season, and a comment was made to me that well, that's what you Americans care about. I'm obviously Canadian, but I I understand the point was like that, you know, that we're so concerned about trying to make sure we balance out these conversations and panels. In Europe, we don't care, it's just who's ever best for the conversation. And I actually do think we're better for the diversity overall. I saw my good friend um Danny Guerrero, who runs a company called the Culturist Group. I learned so much from him as a gay Mexican to try and how to figure out how to market and to message. And it was like he taught me so much he runs this great PR company. And when I saw him, he said it's been a really tough year because a lot of clients that were moving in the way of DEI have moved away from that. So you have continued to lead the charge, and that's why I said not only an ally for women, but also an advocate for diversity. Of course, you're based in San Francisco, you get the California perspective. Um, but it's something I strongly advocate for, and I know when I've seen you when we sat in a room together with three other male executives, and you said, I'm not going to record this podcast if there's not a female amongst us, or I'm going to acknowledge the fact that the people Yeah, and a person of color, I'm part of supporting Ashley Johnson at Hospitality Hute and the black hospitality community, people like Tracy Prigmore and others.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

It's um to me, um, you know, wherever the data when when the data shows that our industry reflects at all levels roughly the same proportions of the representation in our industry and the population at large, then I think, you know, it doesn't mean you stop advocating or being a leader, but then you don't you don't have have the the issue. And for those, you know, I use the example of Mina who push back or say, like, MENA's earned it. This is about meritocracy. It's not about charity or about, you know, people that aren't qualified, but it's also about, you know, investing and recognizing that there are um, you know, structural, institutional, systemic constraints. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the data that shows, you know, for example, women and people of color receive, you know, less than 3%, even 2% of capital that, you know, white men that look like me as founders do. And that's just in the startup world. So I think that that's the thing. If we're intellectually honest, if we're fair, if we're caring, if we're equitable, and that means me giving up opportunities for myself sometimes. This isn't about, you know, advocacy for its own sake or something that is, you know, some people have defined it in that way. It's absolutely about meritocracy. Um, and it was a woman who said, um, you know, talent is equally distributed, opportunity is not. And you just look at the data. And if somebody wants to tell me differently in the data, I'm gonna call BS because they're not being intellectually honest.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

Yeah, very well said, Stuart. And let's let's leave it there because I think that's a very poignant note to finish on. Obviously, I greatly appreciate you making the time for this and sharing your knowledge and advice. And I'm sure many people will reach out to you. I look forward to seeing you. We'll be at Focus Right Europe together a couple of months from now. So reach out to either of us if you're gonna be at Focus Right Europe. I'll be recording there, of course. Uh, but yeah, continued success this year. Best to you and the Forbes travel guide team. And I look forward to seeing you or bumping into you on a plane somewhere around.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

I was gonna say, I'll see you next to me before I know it, only after a long trip on a return. But um, it's so good to see you and thanks for the opportunity, Dan. Congrats on all your tremendous success with travel trats.

Listener Feedback And GuestOS Plug

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Thank you, Stuart. And thanks to all of our listeners who made time for this three-part luxury hotel series, which was very much inspired by Stuart. So I'm thrilled you got a chance to meet him today, learn more about Forbes Travel Guide, the work that we've done with them over the last couple of years, and the summit, another big success for them this year, as you heard in episode two and now in episode three with Stuart. And it was obviously great to kick off this series with my good friend Jonathan Raggett. So feel free to listen to these episodes in whatever order it suits you best. But I do encourage you to listen to all three episodes and then give us feedback and suggestions on where we should head to next with hospitality. It's something that I'm you know very passionate about, have a great interest in, and continue on to have these conversations. So comment, write back, send me an email, Dan, at Travel Trends Podcast. And of course, this series wouldn't be possible if unless we had the support uh from GuestOS and Jesse Fisher. And for those of you who are not familiar over the course of these episodes, uh, when we have a partner, they help cover the cost of production so we can have these conversations. And that's what Jesse and the team were kind enough to do with our luxury hospitality series. So if you're interested in having a multilingual AI concierge that handles guest calls, messages 24-7, can use your brand voice, and can help with surfacing the kinds of experiences that will really make your property stand out, then you have to check out guestos.ai. Thanks again for joining us for this series. And until next week, safe travels.