The Rise of Rail Part 3: Travel, Tech, and Why Trains Are Back with Frank Marini

Rail is having a real moment, and not for the reasons most people think. The tracks haven’t changed, but how travelers see them has. In 2026, rail is no longer the alternative to flying or driving. It’s becoming the experience itself. To close out our Rise of Rail Series with Railbookers and Rail Month itself, Dan sits down with Railbookers CEO Frank Marini to unpack what’s really driving the rail renaissance and why more travelers are choosing the journey itself, not just the destination.

We also get practical about the misconceptions that hold first-timers back, from “can you even get there by train?” to the real anxieties around luggage, station timing, and transfers. Frank explains how Railbookers packages rail, hotels, sightseeing, and logistics into one seamless journey, whether it’s a scenic route through Switzerland, high-speed travel in Italy, a North American classic like The Canadian, or a future-forward itinerary in Japan.

Finally, we go deep on AI in travel and why rail is one of the most complex categories to digitize. Frank shares how his time studying AI at MIT shaped his thinking, how Railbookers is building internal tools like its Fast Track knowledge system, and where AI can add value next, from search and quality control to smarter, data-driven recommendations. Whether you’re a travel advisor, building travel tech, or simply looking for a better way to explore, this episode offers a clear view of where rail is heading through 2030.

Learn more at Railbookers.com and Rail Month. 

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Transcript

Series Wrap And Guest Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Travel Trends and our Rail series. Today we're going to be speaking to the CEO of Railbookers, Frank Marini, but just to give everyone a bit of context to this three-part series that we were so excited to put together, given that we focused on Rail in season five. We had a two-part series where we brought in Frank Marini from Railbookers, and we also had Bjorn Bender, the CEO of Rail Europe. And our audience was clearly very interested in Rail. We did a follow-on episode where I went to Frank's conference last year and had the most extraordinary time meeting the Railbookers team, understanding their culture, and also David Stryker, who was this incredible uh mentalist that you actually heard on season seven opener of Travel Trends Podcast. Well, that was all inspired by Frank and the team at Railbookers. Frank was also a key part of our AI summit, and they're coming back this year as another partner and a sponsor of that series. And so Frank, for me, is really the gold standard of executive in the travel industry. And I wanted to close out this three-part series with him. You've met a number of team members now over the course of the series. We, of course, started by looking at the most iconic and scenic rail journeys, which I know is a series my mom absolutely loves. She's such a big fan of rail travel and she watches all the programs. So that was actually a big inspiration for us, creating that opening episode to highlight all the amazing places you can travel the world in 2026 with railbookers. And then we did our luxury series. Now, luxury has been an unstoppable force in the travel industry. That market just keeps growing. So I was really excited to bring that episode together, especially after having done the spotlight episode on Virtuoso and seeing the interest in rail. And then today, what I wanted to do is discuss the future of Rail from both a technology point of view, uh distribution, and also how the product is going to continue to evolve. And who better to have that conversation with than Frank Marina, the CEO of Rail Booker. So, Frank, welcome back to Travel Trends. Thanks for our partnership and looking forward to regrouping with you today.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

No, thanks, Dan. Thanks for having me. Great seeing you again. Great to be back and thank you again. Really appreciate it.

What Railbookers Does And Why

SPEAKER_00 2:09

For sure. I mean, it was such a special honor for me to be a part of your event in Las Vegas. And, you know, many people who've listened to that episode who got to meet the rest of your executive team. It gives you a whole different perspective on an individual. I've gotten to know you over the years from, you know, the travel corporation. We have many great friends in common of our listeners heard, but being able to see you in action and meet the rest of the team and be able to have those behind-the-scene moments when you're recording gives you a really true sense of what a great company can be and the people that love working with you and being part of the team. And I just wanted to underscore that because I think that that, in as much as having a great business and a great product, you know, it really does come down to the culture of the team. And one of the things you've also done is really advanced the technology side of this industry with your efforts around AI. So I would love, if you wouldn't mind, for those people who are not familiar with Frank Marini, haven't listened to the previous podcast, don't know much about Railbookers, would you guys mind just giving us a brief overview of your background, the business, and the team? Sure. No, thanks, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So we're Railbookers Group. Uh we're the largest independent FIT Rail operator worldwide. We operate Railbookers brand and as well as the Amtrak Vacations brand in the U.S. And we've got uh close to 400 staff uh located it in seven countries around the world and we're 100% remote. So that that's a little bit about us. I'm president CEO as you as you mentioned, and and we've got an amazing group of individuals, our our team members. I'm so uh excited you got to see that at our summit. We're uh just some wonderful, wonderful people who are all comedians too. We like to have a good time and have a lot of fun. So it's uh it's great. And you know, for us, I I would say the biggest thing we all have a passion about is showing people what's possible, what you can do by rail, because most people don't know, and that's kind of our our thing. Um as far as technology, you know, it technology in in the rail space is is complicated. Uh every rail system on earth is completely different, whether you have national rail systems, whether it's luxury rail, even scenic rail, uh they're all different. The technology is different, the rail itself is different, the seating is different, how they operate. We live in that complexity. We like to be in there. That's kind of why we exist. Uh, and from a technology standpoint, we've kind of built our own technology, our own RBG rail system, our own AI system knowledge based system called Fast Track. So uh we're kind of building that ourselves uh just because there is no commonality in that space. And uh so that's kind of why we exist.

Why Rail Travel Is Surging

SPEAKER_00 4:39

That's great, thank you. And for those people who are multitasking, railbookers.com, as you heard throughout the series, is the uh their main website. They work a lot with trade partners as well as consumers directly, but and they put together some absolutely extraordinary packages for people to be able to travel by rail. And one of the things that Frank had highlighted to me in our conversation is just how rapidly this category is growing. I heard that in our very first episode together a little over a year ago. I heard that, of course, about three or four months ago at your global conference. And as Frank and I were kicking off this recording, uh business continues to be strong through 2026, which is wonderfully encouraging. But there's something that's happening here with rail. And so I would love to start there because I am a huge fan of rail, as many of our listeners know. And for me, I've you've the idea of taking a rail journey has always had a great appeal. But it is one of those things that I think most people don't even realize that you know, they don't necessarily see rail as the whole conduit to the journey and the experience that you know they'll take a train trip, they'll go to Europe and they might take a train. But no, this these experiences are completely built around some of the most epic train journeys in the world where you can sometimes stay on the train, but more often than not stay at beautiful hotels and get off the train and be able to experience local culture and cuisine. And so, but it really starts with uh the train journeys themselves. So tell us a little bit more about why you think rail is having a moment here in 2026.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

You know, thanks, Ted. You know, I I think you know, for for rail having a moment, it's you know, in a sense, rail has always been there, you know, the in the sense that the infrastructure is in place, the trains are in place, pretty much for the most part, all over the world. And I think what what what, at least for us, we've almost created a category ourselves, as we're really the only one that, in a sense, does what we do, because you've got the rail companies themselves, the operators who have been there, but then there really isn't necessarily rail tour operators independently that put it all together. And I think more and more, as we've seen, many, many, many people travel by train, but there isn't a lot of good data on that. And the reason why is you could just walk up to a train station, buy a ticket, and get on, and the rail company doesn't know who you are necessarily. So we see that rise of independent travel. And I think for us, it's having a moment, and we seem to keep going. I'm so thankful going from strength to strength in our and our our our uh record growth and continues is more people looking for ease, flexibility. And and and these are some of the things that rail travel provides. You know, it's it's ease, you can go on any date the rail goes, boarding, walking around the train, having a glass of wine instead of driving. And and things look different from the train. You get to see things that you may not see if you're in the sky because clouds all look the same. So I I think it's having a moment, and more and more people are are getting onto this. More companies are adding rail, the rail companies are seeing a lot more luxury rail coming out, and that's good for all of us as it's coming into a category, and it's really having a moment, and I don't see it slowing down. I just think it's finally getting amplified. I almost think it's it's always been there. It's been the sleeping giant that's always been there that you didn't know about because no one quantified it or no one uh amplified all of it together versus an individual rail line.

Misconceptions That Stop First Timers

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah. And I want to think that's really interesting, both from a North American perspective. Of course, you're based in California. I'm based in Canada. Uh many of our listeners know, and and Frank knows. I lived in California for a number of years. I spent a lot of time in the American market and half of our listeners in the U.S. So for me, I you know, I very much look at this from a North American perspective. And when I say that is because uh with the exception, with a few exceptions, there's not many um rail journeys in North America, with the exception of, say, of Alaska, um, or even the Canadian that goes uh you know from Toronto to Vancouver, um, you know, there's the Rocky Mountaineer. There are there are a collection of incredible train journeys in the U.S. But really, when we think of rail, we think of Europe. I know Switzerland's the number one destination for railbookers for that spotlight episode. I know how important Norway is. Uh but as I then started to have those conversations with your uh your team, Frank, what opened my eyes was just how many countries are offer epic rail journeys and how much investment still continues to go into them. And so clearly there is a surge of interest. Um, but before we get into that, I'm actually genuinely curious to know what are some of the misunderstandings about rail travel. I mean, how many people actually do know that you can combine, you know, you can create rail packages, for example, because that's something that really you have innovated. That's a concept that you have really pioneered in many ways. You've created these packages that people can't often get elsewhere, and the way that you put them together and that people come back through railbookers, travel agents, and consumers, they want to continue booking with railbookers to have these experiences that you've put together with all of these partners. They can go out and find uh a train ticket, but they can't build these packages that you create. And that's what's really special. And I but I imagine that people look at railbookers and they're trying to understand who you are, what you guys do. So tell us about some of the misconceptions about rail travel first.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yeah, sure. So some of the misconceptions are are is really, in a sense, just awareness that you can even do something by train. You know, how so everything, oh, is there does it is a train go there? Is there a train in that country? Can you get between those cities or those countries or visit those national parks? So that's the big biggest misconception is no conception at all. You know, so it's really almost an educational that that the the amount of times I'll get asked, like, you can do that by train? Like there's a train that goes there? So that's the first one. I think that I think that the second thing is um you because it's maybe not as familiar, maybe someone understands a train from maybe commuting when they were younger, or maybe they backpack, but that there's so many different levels of experiences on the trains itself. Again, whether it's a national train system, a luxury train, a scenic train, and they're all different and have something to offer. So that that it really it really helps, you know, we especially when you because we we're in the vacation business, we're not in the uh commuter business. So it's all about vacation, what you what you're gonna go, see, do, how close in proximity sometimes things are, or how iconic something can be uh from a journey itself. So those those are the things, whether it's a consumer or or a travel agent, we're always trying to put out there and educate uh with different itineraries and new itineraries that the number one thing we get all the time is really you can do that by train? Like I had no idea. That that sounds amazing. So that that's probably our biggest thing in misconception.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

It's no consultant. Well, it's it's interesting when you mentioned that. First of all, can you get there by train? And the answer in many countries is more often than not yes, especially in Europe. And it's actually then quickly becomes actually it's faster, it's cheaper, it's you know, it's a preferred uh way to travel because I I mean for me, obviously I love the experience of traveling by rail and um and did the whole your rail and the backpacking thing. But when I look at the opportunities to actually travel on train cars that have been customized for exactly this experience, one of the the uh, you know, when we talked about luxury um and highlighted some of the luxurious cabins that have now been created, I think most people are they're familiar with cruise lines, they're maybe even familiar with river cruises, but they're not necessarily fully aware that you use you you said it really well, that there's commuter trains, and it's actually that's not often what we're talking about here. I mean, there's high-speed trains that you can travel on, but really the opportunity is to travel on custom-built, purpose-built uh cabins and trains to be able to match the moment of the type of travel to maximize the scenery and travel at the right pace. And it's like this is, as you said, a train design for a holiday.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

That that that's right. And and with them all being different, it's really all about you know what the customer, the travel agents experience that they they are looking to have. Because in many cases, uh, like we're talking about, you uh you can overnight on the train if that if it is that type of luxury train or an overnight train, or or in a sense, you know, you're you're getting off and we're putting you up in a in a hotel, three, four, five star, it would and your sightsing you want included. So it's really about the whole experience, but the backbone of it is the rail experience, which actually makes it easier to travel. It's more enjoyable, it's relaxing, and it sets that foundation, whether that's luxury or whether that's going in between different cities or different countries.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Now, in terms of understanding why the business, like what's driving this behavior, I'm keen to talk about the expansion of a lot of the rail networks and some of the new product that's been created by virtue of that and the new lines that have been introduced. But before we do that, you know, most travel can be cyclical, and so people rush to do cruising or river cruise and they kind of move. But what's interesting is it seems as though rail travel has been more uh permanent in the last couple of years. That the this the growth that you've seen year over year and then month over month. And what I'm curious as far as what's driving that, is it uh repeat guests that are saying, you know, I'm gonna do this rail journey, I've you know, this is these are the rail journeys of the world that I want to go on. Is it more people coming into the category? Is I'm assuming it's probably likely a combination of both, but what do you think now is driving a more permanent change that is just that it's uh this industry is so robust and there's so much demand and interest for for rail journeys?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Yeah, great question. Well, I I think a few things. One is it it's not a uh a fad industry, it's or are there something that comes in and out, like let's say like glamping. Remember, glamping came in and came right out. Um it's something that's always been there and it just it's getting more and more attention to it. And I really think it's all the things you mentioned, right? So it's it's repeat from customers because they can go anywhere in the world that that that there's rail travel, it's it's travel agents uh and doing an amazing job with us, and all of a sudden them repeating a lot. And in many cases, we're just a piece of someone's overall trip. They could be doing a river cruise in Europe, but they finish in Basel. But instead of, hey, I want to get a car, I can take a train and go down to St. Merz for a few days by train, maybe Lake Como. So all of a sudden it's also a bolt-on to other forms of travel, river cruising crews, things like that. So it's a combination of everything. And and it is iconic to say, okay, I've done the Canadian Rockies by rail. Maybe now I want to do part of Europe by rail, or I want to do a cross-country, the national parks in the US by rail, or you name it Australia. So you name it. So it kind of has a little bit of something for each category of of customers. Like even as an example, um, which came started a couple years ago. We didn't market to this. We're still getting tons of honeymooners, you know. But but it and we didn't market to honeymooners before, but they want that flexibility, they don't want to go on a set itinerary, they want to choose what they want to do and customize it. And that's just so it it's a little bit of everything that it's getting noticed. Let me say that.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah. Well, and this is where you know, when you all of a sudden you have such high demand, you have new experiences that are being created. And this is what we see in other industries where you know new destinations are being uh introduced and new rail cars are being created for the purpose of travel. And so tell us a little bit more about the investment that you've seen in rail networks and where that investment has been primarily focused. Obviously, Europe has been uh quite significant, but tell us how that's leading to investment in both the rail lines themselves and the experiences they offer.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah. So whether that's investment in, let's say, you know, new lines or new trains in Europe or different areas or new luxury trains coming out, let's say like the Dolce Vita or the new trains coming out. Anytime you see that, it creates excitement, it creates new PR in the marketplace and all of a sudden highlights rail, which we've seen for years in the cruise business. You can continue to see in the cruise and river cruise business where it's the new ship that has the new feature on board or the new river cruising. All of a sudden now you see that with the the rail lines. And you're seeing more and more of that, both national and luxury across the way, as they not only continue to meet demand, but improve or create new products that didn't exist. So it just it benefits all of us, just like you'd see in the cruise industry with new ships coming out with new features on them. So that's been pretty exciting to me.

Flexibility And Vacation Mode Onboard

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, it's great. Well, and then that's where for me, when I see certain journeys, like I there's also uh beauty, and we saw that in the series that we just uh, you know, over the last two episodes. We started with Scenic and Iconic for a reason because there are certain certain train rides and destinations that are just truly uh unbelievably epic and it's a perfect, like you the fact that the rail line was created when it was uh with the views that it has, and there are so many places around the world that that was, you know, the good fortune of history that now it makes for a great rail experience. My trip to Sri Lanka is a great example. I unfortunately had to travel by a van with my family, and all I wanted to do was get on that train and see the world from uh from and every time I see pictures now, I'm just I can't wait to get back. Like it's it's so the there's destinations that are literally to be experienced by virtue of the train. And then the luxury side, that was the part that also really struck me when you look at um the Orion Express as one example, to be able to travel from Paris to Venice. And it was something that was highlighted at the Virtuoso Conference that people who take these trips are not always bragging about them because they're a bit more humble about the fact that they are the social status and how truly opulent they are. And a friend of mine took that trip last year, and his wife posted a couple of pictures and he said, Yeah, no, let's let's hold off on that, let's just enjoy this for ourselves. And so, but there are more people, like high network individuals, that are choosing this style of travel as well. Because guess what? At the ski club that they belong to, one guy really wanted to do the Orn Express, and then it was like four couples that went right and had the most incredible time, and they were planning future rail journeys. And so, so that to me is you know what's exciting about this space, as that I keep hearing from other people, which further validates for me that there's something special happening here. And uh, but for those people who are listening to this, Frank, or if listen to the last two episodes and are still wrapping their head around rail travel versus um obviously a car or air, tell us some of the things from your vantage point. Um, because you and I come from the same school of uh travel marketing from the Tolman family, and knowing that, you know, you have to sell the difference and you have to be able to understand what your unique selling proposition is. Uh, and that's what we're we were always, you know, taken a task for in those meetings to try and really highlight that. But ultimately, it became so valuable when we had to go out to market and present and really explain, you know, why rail, why rail bookers. Um, and so when you're answering the question of why rail, I know for myself, uh, I don't like sitting in traffic. I don't, I my preference is not the stop and start motion of being in a car or a coach if I can avoid it. Um, I love the continuous movement of a train. Yes, it stops at stations, but by and large, it was moving at a certain pace where I don't end up with a headache when I arrive at the destination. And so any city I arrive in, I take the train in. I was just in Vancouver, take the train into town. But most great cities now have a train option rather than taking taxis. So that to me is one of the things. And but tell us what stands out to you that why people love rail travel or choose rail travel over alternative forms of transport.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I think the first thing, Dan, is one, the flexibility of it, right? So it it's, you know, let's say versus a a set date on, let's say, an escorted tour, you can go any date on any train. So it creates maximum flexibility when designing your itinerary. I think that's the first thing. Second thing I would say is really your vacation, that's the business we're in, starts the second you get on board. You can choose to read a book, have a meal, have a glass of wine, look at the great sights versus I I have to get somewhere. You know, behind a car, I gotta get somewhere. If I'm in the bus, I gotta get somewhere. The plane, I'm getting somewhere. You're kind of already there when you got you you you get on board. And it's almost like a decompression, right? And you can get up and walk around if you want to. You can't stay in your seat. You know, we got turbulence, you know. So so so you you're automatically, in my opinion, in vacation mode and in and in relaxing mode, whatever that is to you, right? And I think that's what the train provides. And if it's luxury, it's a whole nother level, right? So you can go to the bar car or what have you, you you name it, have dining on board. So that's I think the you know essence of what rail travel. It's not, yes, it's it's a it's it in some cases it is your transportation, it could be your hotel, it could be your restaurant as well, but you're on vacation when you get on board. You know, very different from I'm getting to a vacation, I'm going to, I'm trying to get transported to a vacation. You're already on vacation when you get there. So I think that's the difference.

Customer First Culture Behind The Growth

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, well, it's interesting. I mean, one of the things that people highlight about uh a cruise holiday is the fact that you know they unpack once and they're get to and explore destinations from there. Um but the idea you actually have your transport, your route, your itinerary. The one big thing that we've certainly seen is ease of travel. You mentioned that right at the beginning. I think that's one of the things that uh travelers are looking for today more than ever, just to know that everything's gonna be taken care of, especially 50 plus travelers, which I know is a significant part of um the audience for for rail bookers, and those that book through travel advisors that just want to know that their clients are gonna be taken care of from a well-known brand where they're gonna ensure the experience is gonna be excellent and they're gonna come back raving about it. Um, so along those lines, obviously with this category um continuing to evolve, the um uh one of the big components of this is technology. And you have been a big advocate for this. And I specifically, you know, I'm gonna want to get into the topic of AI. Um, one thing I did want to highlight too is that we actually mentioned Frank is also a successful published author. He wrote a book called Staying on Track, which I have read and he kindly uh autographed for me. It came out in 2024, and and we've mentioned it on the podcast, and a number of people that uh have listened to the uh the episode have come up to me and told me that they. Bought your book. It happened at ITB. You and I saw each other in Berlin a little while ago. And um, one of the uh owners of a company called World Expeditions, based in Slovenia, uh came up to me and I mentioned I was meeting with you later today. He's like, Oh, say hi to Frank for me. I read his book, I learned so much from it about how you embrace AI. So it's really a combination of culture. It's you know, it's a it's a great read. So I highly recommend any of the uh executives in the industry listening to this, order it on Amazon, grab a copy of Staying on Track, and um and Frank, certainly someone to uh to follow, pay attention to, especially when you're speaking at other conferences. But tell us a little bit about the staying on track, your management, and then I'll get into technology since that is such a big part. But really, it it starts with being customer focused. Oh no, thanks, Dan.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, it it's you know, the the the book itself and the whole focus is is 100% customer focused. And everybody talks about that, but we really try to live and breathe it. And and and what I talk about in the book, and and what I mean by that is everything from our own internal org structure, it has me reporting to the customer. That's what we put out to the whole company. But it's really about just paying attention and asking series of questions, often and on a regular basis, at every part of a customer travel agent's journey with us, and realizing in the, you know, you know, questions are the answers if you ask the right questions, if you listen enough. And I think that's a big part of our whole business. That's what what the book is about. Because like I started with, you know, this, you know, this space has always existed, but in many cases the customer did it all themselves. And it was just by paying attention, or the travel agent may have been doing a little bit, may have struggled with it, but hearing the demand for that, if we're asking all the right questions throughout that journey, it's amazing. Like our customer is our product developer. They'll tell us what they're looking for and why. Who knows? They could have watched a movie or hey, there's a rerun of Harry Potter, bang, here comes the Jacobite trains go up, or you know, you name it, or when White Lotus came out years ago in Sicily, boom, our Sicily itineraries went up. And you can take a train on a ferry, boom, from from Italy over to uh to head over to Sicily. So I I think for that, that that's kind of what the book is about. And we try to instill that it with our whole company and in every aspect of what we're doing. You know, we we kind of follow uh uh uh Jeff Bezos' uh philosophy that in every meeting, every conversation, we think of an empty chair, and that empty chair represents the customer. And if we're not including them in the conversation, we shouldn't be having the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah. So I love that. It was one of the things uh Steve Forelli, who I know is a big fan of yours, worked at the Travel Corporation, worked at Rocky Mountaineer, CapTio. He's you know close with both of us. I saw him for dinner just in Vancouver recently, and he was talking about what a huge fan he is of railbookers, and obviously yourself specifically, Frank. And he um, you know, it kindly really reconnected us. And and one of the things that Steve had said to me was that he wouldn't work for a company that doesn't take that approach, um, that he does that that doesn't believe what you just highlighted, which is can you have the conversation in front of your customer about how your business generates revenue, profits, margins to be able to have that type of open conversation is the real trust factor. And so I just wanted to underline what you shared there because you know, at first glance, but that might seem obvious, but it's actually not in corporate boardrooms. And so you just need to watch uh the dynasty series with the Murdoch family to realize they probably don't want your customer at the table. You don't even want your f other family members at the table. I was grip, I was gripped with that four-part series. So I think consumers listening to this or travel agents may say that's obvious, but it's not in the corporate world, and it is special, it's unique.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

No, thanks, pal. I appreciate it. It from Steve as well, too, because it it is important. And and it and honestly, I I mean it like we live and breathe it every day. I've just to give you an example. Last week I was at an off-site with our new website company that will be rebuilding with our marketing team our 12 different websites. During the lunch hour, I brought a speaker and I played calls for an hour so they could hear our travel agents and customers on the phone, and they kind of gathered around to hear the type of questions that customers' travel agents are asking. And I explained to them that not only myself, all of our managers, we listen to calls every day. And that continues on because we need to stay close to the customer, the travel agent, what they're asking, what their needs are, to then how do we better serve our inside team, our customer from a technology standpoint, a knowledge standpoint. And it's just it's a fascinating thing to be. It is funny, it was fascinating to them that anyone did that. It's fascinating to me that no one wouldn't do that. Because you're trying to create something, but I'm not creating it for me. I'm trying to create it for a customer. So I need to understand, which is the whole gist of the book, on a regular basis, what are they asking? And and can I deliver that?

MIT Lessons That Shaped AI Strategy

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah. Well, let's connect that to you know, your uh the focus on the customer, need to understand um the journey that they go on when deciding who they're going to choose to travel with and making sure your brand remains relevant and how this relates to AI, because you went on your own journey there. And and I see two sides to this from getting to know you, the team, having read the book, is that you know, from uh uh making sure your business remains relevant, you obviously need to really understand technology. And so you went on, but at the same time, you have also made a conscious decision to bring your team along on that journey and to empower the organization to really embrace AI. And that's that that again is something that um is more rare than I think people realize. And I'll I've because I've spoken to a lot of people, I was recently at a conference, and I won't I won't highlight the company, I'll just say it was an insurance company, and they were highlighting to me the sales team was so frustrated their marketing team doesn't use AI at all. And they've tried to implement some of these LLM tools, and nothing is working, and they're just really frustrated and they're questioning the future of their company based on their inability to embrace AI successfully and build it into their culture. And so that is actually more the reality that you still hear out there today. Um, but you were very early in recognizing you know what a big shift was coming. Um tell everyone, but and I know we highlighted this on our direct episode, but I really want to bring that uh back here because I think anyone listening to your story and understanding railbookers needs to understand how you went on that journey around AI and and continue to to upskill yourself and bring it into the culture. So tell everyone about your MIT experience.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Sure, sure. So basically, you know, a couple years ago, you know, it was uh 2004, but it was end of 2003 when you know ChatGBT came out and hearing about it and trying to grab and read as much as I could while playing around with AI in the early stages, even though it'd been around for a long time, is I realized I I really got to get ahead of this one because I want to understand it. Um, and I looked for the best place I could learn. And and MIT had uh basically leading a company with AI. And I took uh their first course uh that they had, which was amazing. It was almost life-changing for me with 60 other cohorts from around the world. Uh, and I was lucky enough to go to because that's where the best and the brightest are. I mean, these are cutting-edge uh professors and and and and and people, and and really embracing it and and and getting the foundation of what AI is, what it can do, and where it's going from their vantage points, uh, because many of them had been using it for so many years. My professor actually, at the time, who I've become very friends with, uh, also advises NASA to give you some idea, right? So it'd be way more complicated things than what I do. Uh since then, uh I've continued to take a series and continue to go on back to MIT and a series uh uh of courses there to stay relevant. And it's amazing in a year's time frame, it's like going from bowling to skydiving how similar things are because they're not at all, it's advancing so fast. Um so for us, uh so so and that continues today, and I continue to do that today. Actually, I'll be there in two weeks. I'll be back in two weeks. So looking forward to that. Um but but but for it, and then I also have the cohorts of my classes, we all stay connected through WhatsApp, so we share best practices and what we're learning. So it's like a continuous thing, which which I love. For us as an organization, I kind of took that as a foundation and and spread it through the organization. We have AI committees, uh, we've got uh enterprise licenses locked in for our team to use to play around with, and kind of went through each department and that continues to evolve how we're using it today. You know, it's it it's not all great because you can see work slop coming out of it, where it's uh you know, sometimes it generalizes too much. You've got to be careful with guardrails and things, but what it can do in best practices and learning. So that's a big part of it. And that that led you know to our development of our own AI uh knowledge, knowledge based system, which is uh amazing even today, and is also a living-breathing thing. So that's a little bit on our AI journey.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Well, tell us how it changed. So there's a two parts of this that I wanted to get into a bit more detail on. First, about the culture inside the company and embracing AI, specifically around improving technology that you're offering consumers. So giving the team access to these tools, encouraging them to utilize them. Um tell us a little bit about how you've integrated AI within Railbookers, and then I'd like to hear a little bit about how you've continued to try and optimize towards AI to make sure that customers can find you and that like during their research process, because I think there's two great uh examples there of how you guys are using it. And um, but yeah, I guess first tell us a bit more about the technology side because it's been a lot of complexity to to rail draffle.

Fast Track AI And Real Questions

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, yeah. So uh on uh how we're handling it ourselves internally is we we look at every role in the organization and every department and decide, you know, try to break down each role by tasks, and and that changes all the time. What tasks should be uh a human, what should be a machine? And we try to automate the simple tasks throughout by uh building AI agents in different areas or Auto QC or data analytics, you name it. Uh and as we grow in scale, we we continue to do that because something that didn't exist yesterday all of a sudden is existing today. So, and that that's a living, breathing thing. We're also uh educating our own team on a weekly basis on how each department may be using AI and what they learned and tried and what worked and what didn't. So it's kind of a self-fulfilling thing with that. Um we're also with our own knowledge-based system, you know, that is the more once we launched it last year called Fast Tracks, now the scale of how it's learning, and as an example, and that's a system where our team, our own team, can ask it a question every week on rail travel, things that actually don't necessarily exist. You couldn't Google some of this stuff like where to sit on the train so you see that one mountain and things like that. You you couldn't really find that. So a lot of it comes from our team that's actually traveled to those areas. But what it also created, it creates a team for us. I have a team that actually goes through all the 3,000 questions that get asked every week, what Fast Track gave as an as an answer to that, making sure it's correct. Also, if it didn't have an answer to something, feeding that back, right? So it's not it's a it's a living breathing. So every day it gets better, smarter, because it's gauged off of what customers and travel agents are asking. What's interesting is we can see you mentioned Sri Lanka. Well, I can see questions about Sri Lanka coming up specifically out of the UK. And they're asking about the UK to travel there by train and out of Australia. So we also see patterns on trends. It's not just a system, so it's it's created other roles in the organization. We may not need certain roles, but we created other roles we needed and other knowledge all of a sudden we didn't have before, or vision into what more vision into the customer. So it's been a really amazing thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Well, and having had you a part of the AI summit, I definitely encourage our listeners to check out your keynote because it was one of the most popular, if not the most popular, keynote at our event. And you can see that by the views, but also the engagement we had in the moment of people listening to Frank and commenting on it afterwards. Um, because there's certain things that will apply across the travel industry to understand how Railbookers has embraced AI. But the other thing I'd like to ask you on this topic is that, you know, even that conversation is now is you know, three or four months, and things are changing so rapidly. You mentioned you're going back and uh constantly, you know, even when I'm doing keynotes on these topics, you know, it's it's um as soon as I have one created, I want to keep editing it right up until I go on stage because there's continuous exciting developments happening in this space, right? And I you look back at something you shared at the conference, you're like, wait a second, Claude Cowork wasn't available. There was no, you know, there was no open claw. And it's like these things are, and that I'm saying those now those are gonna date this now eventually in uh six or eight months, and people are like, well, we moved well beyond that. Um but tell us how you're planning to utilize this technology uh in 2026 and beyond. And clearly, obviously, it should be it's being built into the culture, so you'll continue to embrace it. And what you just described about looking at every role and looking at business processes is one of the things that I encourage companies to look at when they're championing, figure out a champion, get everyone on board, and work with the right partners. Those are kind of my three things to go to that you know, to get on the journey. But um, tell us a little bit what else you have planned or in store for the use of that technology.

Search Data And Quality Control With AI

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Yeah, of course. So there's a couple things. One is is searching, right? So so we have a lot of uh it and and with rail travel, it can be a little complicated. You can use uh an LLM to search you know yourself as it exists. For for us, we're we're building out, we have a version of it, we're continuing to advance it, our own internal search, because there's so many different combinations of different things and routes. So from an so from a search perspective, an AI search, but that's more geared towards our team customers and travel agents. So that's that's that's one. Uh the second is we're going to I call you know three levels down in our data analysis. So we we because we FIT or customize everything, we actually have lots and lots of data. We're a very data-rich company. And to be able to go down to certain levels to say, hey, if you look at all our data, everything from what was quoted to what's booked by market, where the customers are coming from, travel agents are coming from, to see at what point they're asking about what who that customer is. Is it a honeymoon or customer? Where are they going? When do they convert? How long the period of time from quote to booking, and really serving it up automatically, you know, as even a suggestion uh to the customer and travel agent that, hey, this that combination you're asking for converts at a 74% uh rate this time of the year, where that uh I know they're looking for as well. That's a 17% conversion. So I would suggest this over this. That's what my data tells me. So that that's another way we're looking at it. And then the last thing is um from a QC perspective, you know, because again, when you customize things and and and personalize things, it has to be QC'd. It's it's hand curated. So how can you know AI go way ahead for us because we do everything from rail, but sure, we do hotels, sightseeing, transfers, ferries, you name it, every single thing. There's lots of components and to be able to scan that and then look ahead uh to see ahead. So those are just a few of the ways, but we're constantly building little AI agents and very particular things in the organization that uh allow us to go faster, you know, faster and more accurate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Well, I I really like that you mentioned AI agents because obviously we're in that you know, the the realm of agentic AI, many companies, and a lot of individuals are still wrapping their head around what does that mean for my role, for my company, and being able to be able to create AI agents that can work on your behalf to be able to accomplish tasks. I wanted to share one, and then I'm keen to get your take on this, Frank. I've got one more question on technology, and then I actually want to get back to uh some of the product and experiences. Um, since ultimately, and I I always find there's two sides to this, is there is, you know, there's the back end that excites uh many of our listeners and people like us that understand what's involved in that. Um, but then it's ultimately it comes back to serving the customer and what's in their best interest. And sometimes we get lost in uh the technology side and and get disconnected from the customer because we can get we can get carried away with what technology can do, but we're not keeping it in lockstep with what the customer expectations are. And so that for me is, I guess, my sanity check when it comes to how we're progressing technology. But I'll I'll give one example that I think might be interesting for our listeners, and obviously Frank uh knows this. But when you look at how technology is evolving so rapidly in the travel industry, there's been a lot of fragmentation, a lot of issues with connectivity. And one of the beautiful things that AI can do specifically is to be able to build out APIs, application interfaces. And one of the big challenges, you know, from my previous role as a chief digital officer, trying to advance uh suppliers working with online travel agencies and other partners, we would always come up against the same issue, which is that their roadmap is, you know, they're six months behind in being able to work with partners on APIs. So it's basically get in line based on our priority. And there's instances, as you know too, where they would say, Oh, you know, we won't write to your API, you have to write to our API. And so just everyone's following along. An API literally just answer for application interface, allows two platforms to be able to talk to each other with a bit of a common language, and so, but you still need to decide who's gonna talk to who. Are you gonna go to our API or are they gonna come to ours? And you try and make your API as flexible as possible. And the beautiful thing now with AI as uh an intermediary and a and a coding resource is that you can build these APIs in hours and you can find partners that will create these APIs that allows you to better connect. And from a consumer point of view, what does that mean? It means much more connectivity across all everything you've booked. So from a consumer point of view, everything's just gonna be seamlessly integrated and it's gonna be a wonderful consumer experience because your flights, your hotels, your it's all gonna be in one place, and it's easier for companies like Railbookers to bring that all together. So that's one that really excites me. And and the uh, I guess maybe the the leading question there for you on that, Frank, is that given travel advisors are such an important part of your business, ultimately they just want uh the best experience for their guests, but also a seamless experience for them to be able to book. I know you guys have your um your platform for travel advisors to be able to log into and be able to get access to promotional materials and digital maps and all the tools they need access to to be able to help promote and sell these products. Where do you think technology is going to advance in the the rail space? That's that's one example that obviously I was keen to share, but obviously you're you're across your roadmap and you've got probably got many other things uh lined up. What are some of the other ways you'll see this technology evolve in the rail space?

Tech Limits And Advisor Experience

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Yeah, it's a good question. You know, you know, right now in in the rail space and in the kind of the space rim, because all the different rail lines around the world are all at completely different journeys from a technology platform. So some don't have APIs themselves, things like that. Um, you know, so for us, we've kind of built our own platform, you know, uh as as you talked about. You know, where does that advance? We continue to try to make things as seamless and easy, starting with our own staff first, right? So because they they can deliver great service. As far as our travel agent partners, and like you said, we've got the logins on our website, which is really marketing material. Eventually we'll have things because because right now I should say this there isn't a booking engine on Earth that includes rail, hotel, it doesn't exist. There is no such thing. And the reason why is there's no commonality. Um, so for us, eventually I think we'll have a version of that. That that's not a a short-term goal for us, to be honest with because what I've learned is just because you can book something online doesn't mean you know where it goes and how to do it. Right? Like, oh, here you go. You know, maybe like if we give our reservation system to the traveler, here you go, well, you still don't know where the train goes. How does that work? So so we still want to be there in a way that's meaningful for them and we can provide service to them. We want to do it in the easiest, fastest way for them to be efficient as possible. So we're we're constantly looking at ways. Our new websites that I had mentioned we're going to be developing will have some features of that for our travel agent partners. It won't be a full online booking engine. We want to move in that way to make it easier for them. Right now, we do make it easier for them because we're probably the only people that they can actually call to get help on it. But we do want to make it easier on a digital sense because it in that way, what you're saying, Dan, I think about that same thing as well. I'm like, hey, everything we do is digitized. We don't deliver a hard item, right? It's all digital. So how do we move things that even if the technology is there? And my attitude is always I'll never let technology get in the way of satisfying a customer travel agent's needs. I'll find a way uh in the meantime. That's kind of what we've we've done. We'll continue to evolve. But I think the more technology evolves, it's funny because a technology comes off for something different, and we'll think about it differently to say, oh, we could actually apply that here in something completely different. And and that's is that a better experience? So that's more of our journey where we're trying to go.

Grand Tours Built Around Celebrations

SPEAKER_00 42:27

The one thing I really like about what you mentioned about digital inventory, because that's some that's a way to look at our industry that many consumers don't even make the connection to the fact that when they're purchasing something online or through their travel advisor, there's not a physical exchange of goods. There is the confirmation of the itinerary, um, but ultimately that's yet to be delivered upon. So um you basically have the promise of an incredible trip in your hand that you've now committed to. Um, and it's up to the you know the uh the travel company to deliver on that. And so uh but but it it is very different to your point about um a physical good purchasing something on Amazon. And it's one thing that uh to underscore your point about people making high-stakes decisions on their travel that are not only costly, but also such a valuable uh amount of their time when they're taking a holiday. They want the hand holding. And what we've already seen, and these stats are already backing up, people are overwhelmingly using AI tools to do their research, but they're still very much as much, if not more than ever, using traditional modes of booking, including travel advisors. And that's exciting for many of us who've been in the industry for a long time to see uh travel advisors continue to thrive. And I know that's such a big focus for you and your team to connect those suppliers. Um, but it is interesting to think about where this could go in terms of being able to build out that platform and how far away we are from that. And the fact you even said that's not a short term priority because um that's even if you could build that solution, it doesn't mean that people are going to choose to use that to make that booking. And obviously, your commitment in man in many ways is to the partners and the distribution options that you've created. As opposed to trying to do everything all in one. So this is exactly the point of where you know you could build it with technology, but would people follow you there? And is that the ideal state of the business? So um anyway, so the a good discussion on technology, and obviously always, always interesting to have those conversations with you, Frank. And I'll be keen to learn more once you get back from your next session at MIT. But the other thing I I wanted to get into is the product side, because for me ultimately, that is why we travel to be in destination, have these incredible experiences, connect with people. And um and one of the things that is unique about the trade experience is this the grand journey, this whole concept of you know going on a grand tour. I know it's a very popular option for your travelers for Europe, for example. Um, but tell us a little bit about how that specific type of itinerary has has really come back and what it is that people are looking for and the kind of grand tour experience.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Yeah, so so uh on a grand tour experience, and there's so many different facets to that. A grand tour can be a multi-city, it can be a multi-country, it could be an iconic journey. It it could be to multiple national parks in the U.S. It's really checking off, I think for a customer and for a travel advisor, it's checking off a number of things, and and not seeing it all, I don't want to just say that, but seeing some of the big things and maybe some things they weren't expecting. And that's what we see on these type of grand tours, and they could be themed. We have so many different itineraries, but that that that that's what customers are looking for. It's like, wow, you did Italy and Switzerland, and you did the Bernina and Glacier uh, you know, express at the same time, or wow, you hit a number of the different national parks in the US at the same time, or you did, you know, X amount of key cities, the Imperial Cities in Europe, you hit all three, you know. So and I think people are looking to do that, especially, and sometimes, like I said, it that's in concert with another trip that they're doing. They could be doing a river cruise or a cruise, and this is in concert with that, like, hey, because they're looking for experiences, and and that, and that's really you know what it is, and we can provide that in in a in a customized way that that suits their needs.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

So tell us what that would look like. So I know the multi-country, I was looking at the Europe one before our conversation today. You know, there's six countries, and I think that you know, especially when people are getting into travel, they want to, especially with Europe. Uh, I still remember doing a uh Trafalgar trip, and obviously you know all those brands incredibly well. And um, it was called the European World. And if if anything, the criticism was you'd only spend like three hours in a destination, you're better, you know, you'd have a beer a beer in Munich, you'd be back on the bus again, you'd drive six more hours, and and I so I I've seen but the idea with uh a grand tour uh highly appeals to new travelers and also repeat travelers that are looking to try and touch as many places as possible. Um and so uh tell us a little bit more about uh why you think those have kind of come back in a more significant way.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

I I think, yeah, great question. I I think what I see is they've come back in a significant way because the grand tour concept is still defined by the customer and the travel agent themselves. And what I mean by that is what we see on some of those is, you know, let's say uh uh something is uh Venice, Florence, uh Rome as an example. Well, someone can decide, well, I only spend a night in in Rome, but I'd like to do four or five nights in Florence because I want to do more vineyards. And you know what? I'm gonna take the train and we're gonna maybe spend we're gonna break it off into a grand, we're gonna spend a few nights right in Cinquitera as well while we're there. So the the grand tour is still what someone perceives as a grand tour. And I think it's more about for them, hey, I'm gonna be there anyway, I want to go there, I want to make this memorable. This is for our travelers, they're all traveling for some type of a celebration because we asked that question. It could be a retirement, it could be a birthday, it could be what have you, and and it kind of coincides. Hey, this is a celebration, we're gonna make it a grand tour, we're gonna check off a number of things, whatever those things are. So I think that's why we've seen it come back versus uh, let me just go in and out. You know, we're we're our products are not getaway products. I'm not in and out, because you can do that on your own. These are journeys, these are experiences, and I think that's what we see more. That's why we've seen that kind of that grand tour now come back with people looking for that because it's part of the celebration. I don't think you have a grand tour without the celebration part of it. I think that's the big component of it.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yeah, and the one thing I just add to that, if that's all right, because I think one when I mentioned the Trafalgar experience, one, obviously, I prefer rail travel to coach travel, given you know, just traffic and some of the things that and the narrow passageways, a number of people I hear are talking about the fact like I cannot believe they get those buses through those streets. It's just like people have like a little PTSD at the end of the day after they've uh got to the destination, they're still re-reliving the roads that they were on that day. Uh and so there is there is the at and you um river cruise, you're obviously beholden to the rivers. And the the beautiful thing about that, of course, is like there's some you know ancient history that you can follow along the rivers, but you can't still get to all the main sites that have developed over you know hundreds of years on one trip. So you can take a slow-paced river cruise, just for some people, you can take a coach trip where you spend a lot of time with a coach, you know, moving around. Um if you're going through uh uh airports continuously, that's not a desirable grand tour unless you have a private jet, I suppose. But so like the idea of a grand tour, to me, that's the reason I wanted to bring this up because I think it's really unique and special to rail. Like the a grand tour with rail is the ultimate grand tour because you can get to the heart of Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, uh, Geneva, and you can also go in one direction. And that's one of the you don't have to do a loop. Like so you can, you know, you can start in um Berlin and you can finish in Rome. And you know, you can do that trip over the course of two weeks and continuously seeing new things, and and that to me, like that's the style of travel I've always I've loved because it can your senses are continuously stimulated, you're getting off the train and experiencing new places. So yeah, I I would say, and I'm sure you feel the same way, that you know, the train experience is the ultimate way to have a grand tour of a of a destination.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Yeah, I I definitely think so. And it and because like you said, you can do and see places, you know, by train that you couldn't do by river or or cruise or what have you, or uh it it may be more of a challenge by coach, uh, and you can start enjoying yourself. The other thing I I think is we have a l uh so many different itineraries, but also you can have a lot of fun with it too. Like as an example, we have everything from Route 66 by rail, right? Or we have a Hollywood to Broadway by rail, and you see all different places along the way. We have that in Europe. So there's you can actually have a lot of fun with the product itself and what you want to do and where you want to see. And it's not just the main cities people want to see. They can get off and spend a couple nights in wherever that train stops in that one location. So it's it's it you can have a lot of fun with it too.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Well, you mentioned a couple there that actually um I I I'm actually keen to get your take on what are some of the train journeys that uh given that many of our listeners would have heard the iconic Athenian uh itineraries and maybe they've decided where they want to go by listening to that episode, and then the luxury travelers as well. Uh but when you're someone, it strikes me that you just you know you love this industry, you love rail. So whether it's you know scenic, iconic, uh luxury, like you're you want to do it all by um by rail. And and so what are some of the standout ones for you that you're for our listeners, like Frank's recommendations for either trips that you would uh suggest that people absolutely consider taking because you've had uh an incredible experience on them. I know you've just opened up Asia, for example. Japan is really taking off for you guys. I know how excited your team is about that. Um so yeah, and also some new destinations because whenever I speak to your team, they're excited about one of the new trips they've just, you know, that is that has come onto uh the platform. So yeah, what what would you what would be your recommendations to our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 51:37

So for recommendations, it definitely, you know, you I know you mentioned it all but Switzerland, the Glacier and Bernina in Switzerland. There's so many different itineraries in Switzerland, but Swiss is built for rail travel and just absolutely beautiful. Italy as well, or combining them both, but Italy has done a phenomenal job with their high-speed rail network, and what you can do and see is is amazing. Uh, I think I've mentioned before, but the I I've done the Canadian across Canada was absolutely loved it. So beautiful, so many different topographies and sites along the way. I just thought it was amazing. Uh a favorite of mine is actually the Empire Builder uh from Chicago to Glacier National Park for a few nights and then over to Seattle through the Cascade Mountains is just so beautiful. You wouldn't uh you'd be amazed. So but there's so many, and and then you know, going forward, I've I've been lucky enough to go to Japan, but I want to go back to take my family into uh one of our Japan itineraries by rail with the high speed rail there, which is incredible. It's uh I want to take my family to see it.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Yeah. Well, the Japan, so I've been fortunate enough to be in Japan, and that's one of the ones that as far as a great rail destination because of the high speed. But the really cool thing, and I know we've kind of almost goes without saying, but um, is the fact that when you're on a train journey, that the entire experience on the train is part of the journey throughout the day. It's not just a form of transport to get you from one place to the next. It is a key so they there, therefore you're always on this journey, on this trip, having these experiences, seeing the scenery changes. So um given that the industry uh has woken up to the potential of rail and even speaking to your colleagues in the industry, like we did with that first series, you know, there is it's it's it's wonderful that Railbookers is seeing the success that you are, but it's also great to see that the industry of rail is is being lifted up as well. So when I speak to Rail Europe, you can, you know, the um the investments they're making and uh the increased interest in rail travel, it is a bigger industry trend. And so if we um kind of zoom out and look at it from your vantage point, uh I'd love to hear from a business perspective where you see some of the big opportunities right now. And I guess that kind of relates to product. That's why I wanted to segue into that because obviously you can introduce new destinations as you are. Um but yeah, tell us where you see the biggest opportunity in rail right now.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

I I think the biggest it it's all of it, and I'll tell you what I mean by that is you know, I don't I look at it like we're in a business in our business, we have unlimited leads and unlimited inventory. What business has that? Meaning there, when you start to look at how many people just travel by train and just in general, it's it's it and we see that from our demand side and then inventory, because there may be 35 trains a day that go between X and X and X and X. So huge opportunity. And I think we're on on the broader side, as rail is part of the conversation with everything, media, PR, other operators, everyone gets into as a as a as a way to travel, it's just bigger because from a product perspective, there's 90 countries around the world that have passenger rail. Uh there really isn't anywhere. And what's always interesting to me, I mentioned Sri Lanka, but you see, like out of our Australian market, they're interested to go in in Korea in different areas and expanding in into Asia to travel to, obviously, not even just Japan. So there's so many places that you can go that already have passenger rail or have a luxury rail, and this and there's such a build on luxury rail happening around the world too, that I think for us, I I think it's going from you know strength to strength. I don't see it slowing down. And you're seeing, you know, a lot, as you started with, so much more investment into that area from very large companies uh that are investing into the that area, whether it's luxury or what have you, and the national systems are are improving their products and expanding there too. So I just see it just continuing to grow.

Opportunities And Friction Points In Rail

SPEAKER_00 55:22

In terms of some of the challenges that you come up against, I'm also curious whether, you know, we've talked about technology, but uh in terms of the customer experience or why people may not choose travel uh by rail, uh, what are some of the challenges that you see? And I obviously the one I liken it to, but it's clearly the the inverse of it, is that a lot of people don't want to get on ships because they're concerned about how they're gonna feel being on the water and if they're gonna get motion sick. And that is a real issue for the cruise industry. I didn't realize until I attended a couple of cruise conferences um just how big an issue it is for to get first-time cruisers, how difficult it is to convert people for their first cruise to see if that's you know, especially when someone's committing to being on a ship for a week or more and if they're gonna feel nauseous. Um, and so that's a real challenge they have, and there's something they have to overcome. Is there anything that's like that with rail that you see and has been limiting its growth that you can unlock?

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Yeah, good question. I I don't think it not in the same way on the cruise, and I understand that from the cruise side. I would say some of the things would be uh one, like I've been saying, you know, just the knowledge of you can do it by rail, you know, versus not and and that I know I repeat it, but it's so much people like, I had no idea you could even do this by rail. We're gonna get a car. This the second one that does come up is luggage. How does luggage work on the train, right? So because people may not be familiar with it, it's luggage, it's how does it work at the station? Do you have to get there earlier, your tickets, things like that, which we take care of all that. So that that that la and they're all different too. So that lack of knowledge or that that little bit of fear, you know, it's probably similar on the cruise side, like, hey, what's it gonna be like? Uh so those would probably be two of the things uh that come up. And then lastly, it's a lot of the logistics which we take care of. Well, when I get there, how do I get to the hotel? Well, we provide you can book a transfer with us, things like that. So it tends to be the logistics of it, because again, it's customized. So those are some of the the things that I don't want to say restrict us, but they're the questions that come in uh on a regular basis. You know, we can see that from uh from our webinars and trainings, the type of questions people have, and you can tell that they haven't been on a train journey before, you know. So we really try to uh explain that uh earlier on, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

No, there's two this is the thing it makes me laugh because there's like you always like it. This is where it's so fascinating when you like listen into customer calls, as you do, and you highlighted that how important that is, because it was certainly part of my role um uh in the travel space is listening to customers and staying. And we always encourage, as you know, any executives joining, that they should spend a certain amount of their time just listening to customer questions. And people would ask things like, um, well, and I would assume in this instance, like, do I sleep on the train? Like, is it is that the train journey, right? It's like, am I limited to sleeping on the train? Is it like an RV, but I'm on a train and I'm like, am I part of a group? Or even you mentioned the other thing, which is you know, the um uh transfers. People are genuinely concerned about getting to airports from airports or two train stations, who's gonna meet me? Um, because that's the part that can be stressful and overwhelming. And when you start to realize, wait a second, no, that's like you get on the train during the day, you've had a shower, you're like, you're rested, you've had breakfast, you're like, you know, you get on the train and you start your day, and then you stop somewhere for lunch, and you stop somewhere else for uh for dinner, and you stay in a hotel, and then you get and it's it's like, oh, and we shuttle you back and forth. It's like, oh, like you know, I I get that now.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

I understand what it is that you do and why everyone rays about it. That's exactly right. But we'll get you so many of those questions are like, hey, does a train wait for us if we overnight at a hotel to stay there? Well, it depends what train. Some do, some don't. If it's another train, you know, what happens if I miss that train? You know, so you get what happens if there's a train delay, you know, which we take care of all that, reaccommodating like an airline would do rail hotel sites. So you you get a lot of those logistical questions because it's not a set canned package product. It can be this components to it, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, let's finish by talking about the future of rail. Since you know, the theme of your conference was the renaissance of rail with the AI called out, which I thought was very clever. And uh, you know, this whole series, you know, and really, I mean, we created that spotlight episode, which was very much about the renaissance of rail. And clearly, a renaissance can last for many years as we've seen in history. So that you know, this this renaissance is is clearly underway. But if you look at you know the next five years, even taking us to 2030, Frank, 20, you know, here we are in this conversation in 2026. Uh how do you see rail evolving over the next few years?

SPEAKER_01 59:36

I see it evolving as more new luxury rail builds are coming out as as national rail systems and scenics rails are improving their products and adding different, whether it's adding different routes, new routes, uh, and even the uh product in itself, right? So so like a uh uh different like a trying to tell you as an example, in their uh executive class car, they would have they used to have eight seats and then a conference room. Well, they're getting rid of their conference rooms to have 16 seats. They're opening up more for trial. So you're gonna see that you know it continues to evolve. But what what I would see, and we're working on part of this from a search perspective that we'll have, is that you can be able to put in your personal preferences and get a selection of itineraries or suggestions based on what's personal to you with rail travel all over the world, based on your suggestions. And that could be a combination of luxury and national rail systems, like as an example, uh even with the Venice Simplonarian Express. Well, that you mentioned it that Paris advanced. Well, that's only one night. No one flies all the way over to Europe for one night. What else are you doing? And we see that today. But you I think you start to see that that it will start to not normalize, but it's it's easier to find in research with some of the tools that we're creating, because right now they're all it's looked up as like individual components, right? And I think we'll we'll will lead that. And I think but more and as it gets written about more and more and more, people like you said, whether it's that country club or things like that, like, hey, let's try that. I mean, the the amount of people I bump into, once they they'll ask me what I do, and they're like, oh, like where can you do that, Barrel? Oh, I want to do that. That sounds cool, that sounds fun. You know, because it's it's a journey, it's an experience. And I think it doesn't really have a downside to it. So that word of mouth is a big one too, as more and more people travel on. Yeah, for sure.

Rail To 2030 And Company Roadmap

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

Well, an interesting that with the example, I mean, um, you know, when you have high network, like you're talking about the luxury side specifically and how you target uh and message to them, because obviously that one individual at the ski club and this you know, private ski club, he had latched onto the idea and then got everyone else on board with it. And now everyone's raving about it and they're trying to figure out their next trip. So now you've gone from one to eight, and obviously you know how this math works in travel marketing, and that's you know the power of referrals. And uh so for sure, getting in front of those uh organizations to be able to highlight this opportunity. That's where I'm I'm I'm so excited for you and the team because you have a great business with um a terrific product and just a wonderful group of people to work with. And so when you see the stars aligning like that, I mean, obviously, I want nothing more for uh for you and the team than just continued success of uh of rail. And I so when when we bring it home to railbookers, what does the future of railbookers look like in the next few years? What are some of the other destinations you're planning to introduce? What are some and obviously you're building out the team. I see no shortage of people that want to work for railbookers. I obviously I saw a lot of eight uh colleagues that I worked with for many years that I was delighted, Monica, Chris David, and a number of others. They're just they love working at Railbookers and um and you're continuing to hire great people. And I'm like, you seem to be getting like an all-star group together. So like it's it's you know, the uh uh so I wanted to highlight those well because it's people listening to this, if uh, you know, they may be travel advisors looking to sell um uh rail experiences, it could be customers looking to book over the course of these three episodes, but we actually do see a lot of amazing people that listen to this podcast then decide, you know, this is the next career for them. And you know, they want to they want to work with you and the team. So yeah, tell us a little bit about the the future, Frank.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Yeah, so so first of all, uh we love having those all-stars with us. So we're very thankful that that that they're part of Rail Bookers Group. You know, we have a uh a philosophy. We want anyone who looks at our stuff, we want them to either say, hey, why don't we just buy and go with them, or hey, why don't I just sell their product, or hey, why don't I just work for them? So we always and last year I got a highlight, we had 115,000 applications to work for us. So we're very thankful for that one. Um you know, for us the future, we want to really double down on product business development team that supports our travel agent partners. One, expand our product around the world, because there's so many products around the world that are different for different markets and how they travel in different routings, as we're seeing and learning in the Asian market, our new Asian customers and how they travel to different areas, things like that. Um but sky's the limit. But that that's what we see is really doubling down on our product marketing uh and business development as well as our technology, our AI-built technology our own. We've got a great software engineering team that uh loves innovating in a space that hasn't had a lot of innovation per se. You've got a lot of legacy systems, but you know, how can we? So uh th that's kind of our goal and and our focus going forward because we we're very lucky to continue to see uh you know strong growth and seeing that, but it's like I said, it's limitless, you know, li unlimited inventory, unlimited leads. And then how can we keep expanding that? And and the one last thing I'd say is the most interesting to me is in different markets we open up, meeting customers from that market traveling all over the world. Although they have sometimes different needs or they'll take different routings, their knowledge of rail or lack of it and their excitement on rail is exactly the same. It's exactly the same, which is very interesting to me because they're like, this seems cool. Oh yeah, I had no idea, right? So it just it just tells me it one in one sense, sometimes it's a struggle because you're the only one waving the flag, but in the other sense, you are the only one, and you're seeing it, you know, all of a sudden grow right away. It's not, you know, different, let's say maybe different industries where there's you're competing against seven or ten other cruise lines, you're competing with all these there really isn't, and people are genuinely excited about this type of travel when they hear about it. So that that excites me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

Yeah, that's terrific, Frank. No, and I mean the future is very bright for uh for the rail space. Obviously, it's uh uh extremely bright for rail bookers and the team. And uh, you know, I just in the last year, year and a half, just seeing the trajectory that you're on, I'm you know, I'm sure our listeners obviously will be uh keen to follow. I know we have a spotlight episode later this year after your next conference in Vancouver, which is really exciting. And obviously, I'm I'm thrilled to be back and to be involved in the event. And and so uh, you know, it's our listeners are going to be able to follow you on this journey. But just before we we close off, given that you are so um enthusiastic and also just incredibly motivated, I know you know you're bullish on the sector for all the right reasons that we've talked about. You know, you're continually pushing yourself. Um not just the team, but you're, you know, you're very intellectually curious. And um and also I'm just gonna say this too, like you're just a wonderful person. Like people gravitate towards you. And it's one of the things in the travel industry that, you know, your reputation is everything. And so when people know about your work ethic and your uh even uh your morals as it applies to work and partnerships. And so going back to where you reference would our customer would we be comfortable having this conversation with our customer at the table if that's your litmus test, that is a great uh that is a great ex uh example to be able to highlight of transparency and and so so for for me but all of this obviously you know you are continually reading learning developing growing yourself. And that's that's the part for the the executives out there listening to this because your roles are also incredibly stressful, exhausting. These are the things that people don't see. You travel extensively you have a family you've got like you know so this is uh so what ultimately keeps you motivated and what are some of the things that you um you uh sources you reach out to are some of the things that you gravitate towards to keep to keep perspective and to be able to lead a great company like this?

What Keeps A CEO Motivated

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Oh thanks Dan yeah great question um you know I I mean I one thing is I you know I I would say I don't take myself that seriously you know you know at the end of the day I I don't believe my own BS no I'm kidding is uh is uh because I always want to be learning and and I always want to position myself in the company as the underdog you know because you you know because it just makes us work harder meaning learn as much you know the second thing is you know we try to ask twice as many questions so we are learning and and and where can I learn at all times from a customer from this a trend outside of our industry um learn just as much outside the industry as in our industry and and what keeps me going is you know um you know making what seems impossible possible. You know I always you know for the amount of times you know earlier on that I heard you can't do that. I'm like okay hold my beer. No I'm kidding. Because I think you know it there is so much possible because it's it the customer wants to make that possible. And and and when you're you know I know this will seem weird. I never really pay attention what someone spends because they're all on holiday and I just want them to have an amazing time regardless because they could have saved up 30 years their whole life. They they remind me of my dad who immigrated to the US when he was uh 12 with my grandparents as a bricklayer and at the end of the day may save his whole life to go on this trip. I just want to deliver it I don't care how much you're spending or how long you're going for that gets me motivated. We have so many customers that send in the pictures of their trips uh from going all over the world and and in all my town halls we share all our customer pictures that they send in on their own to our team and that really motivates not just me but our whole team at this this people behind this and this is their anniversary their holiday their vacation this is the graduation it's just it it's meaningful work. So I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

Well thank you for leading by example and I just want to close off by just sharing uh one of the things that I certainly saw stood out to me at the conference which was um the fact you were so focused on entertaining everyone. So yes obviously you dressed up and like you you know the um and it was funny and it was but and then with but by bringing in David Stryker and having some that would could just really entertain the audience, they had spent a couple days talking about the business and you know preparing for this next year and then having kind of a a proper sales conference. But ultimately one of the things I learned from the book called The Art of Innovation by Tom Kelly which is a bit of a dated read now the firm ID IDO, IDEO, but some of the principles absolutely still apply and the one that I had learned back um maybe about 15 years ago when I first read it was the fact that hot teams celebrate together and this whole idea that when you have teams that run hot, you have to let uh give them the opportunity to let off steam and you have to give them the opportunity to celebrate a win. So for me I was always very focused on when we launched a major project or we got to a certain point, we had to find a way to celebrate because then you're you're you're in scaling the mountain again. You can't just ask a team to then just start over without actually taking a moment to recognize celebrate and I saw that um uh displayed so well at the conference and I guess that's one thing I just wanted to to finish off on is that you know you definitely live that by example and it's uh yeah I'm looking forward to seeing it again in person.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

No thanks I'm so thankful you're gonna be there and thanks thanks for the comments too. It's uh yeah we definitely celebrate we got great people in there and just wonderful yeah i it's like a family it's it's seeing your family again once a year we have a good time because we work hard but we play hard too and we we we don't take ourselves that seriously which is good to me so that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

Well thank you Frank thank you for uh joining us for this and uh and helping to bring this whole series together I was so delighted to be able to do a three-part rail series in 2026 given all the interest from our from our listeners and to really be able to focus it around railbookers and and and doing two episodes on the product and then being able to have this episode together with you. So thank you again for our collaboration and and friendship and I look forward to seeing you in the real life again shortly. Same here my friend look forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

Thanks pal.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

And that's a wrap on our three-part series with Railbookers. I hope you enjoyed this final conversation with Frank Marini the CEO of Railbookers. I definitely encourage you to make sure you've listened to all three episodes we started focused on the iconic and scenic journeys with Jim Morini and Matt Foy from Railbookers and then last week we were joined by Tyler Wallinger and Gareth Jones from Railbookers to discuss the new golden age and luxury rail travel. I am a huge fan of rail and I was so looking forward to bringing this series together. We do have clips and highlights to share with you on our social channels which you can find on LinkedIn YouTube and Instagram and you can find all three episodes at traveltrendspodcast dot com slash railbookers and I'd love to get more feedback from you on where we should go next with a future rail series. We are going to be doing a spotlight episode from the Railbookers annual conference from Vancouver later this year. So if you want me to ask any specific questions of the team or their partners be sure to send me a message Dan at traveltrendspodcast dot com. And as you heard throughout the series if you want more information definitely check out railbookers.com so you can plan your next trip for yourself or for one of your clients thanks so much for joining us on this series. I hope you enjoyed them as much as I did and until next week safe travels.