Why Tour Operators Matter More In 2026

Travel feels more unpredictable than it did a few years ago, and that’s exactly why guided travel is winning again. In this Captains of Industry episode, Dan sits down with Terry Dale, President and CEO of the United States Tour Operators Association (USTOA), to unpack what’s really driving the surge in tour operators, packaged tours, and high-touch planning in 2026. Terry explains how USTOA is built on integrity and why trust has become a deciding factor for travelers who can’t afford to waste their money or their limited vacation time.

We break down what makes a USTOA member different, including the unique $1 million Traveler’s Assistance Program that helps protect consumer deposits, along with the rigorous vetting and industry references required for membership. Terry also shares why travel advisors are experiencing a true renaissance, and how the certainty of expert guidance is outperforming endless DIY planning, even for travelers who begin their journey with AI tools.

From there, we zoom out to the biggest trends shaping demand today: smaller group travel, increased customization, the continued rise of river cruising, and multi-generational trips that turn vacations into lasting shared memories. Terry and Dan also explore where Americans are heading next, from Europe’s enduring appeal to growing interest in destinations like Portugal, Japan, Vietnam, Colombia, Morocco, and even Antarctica.

They also address the realities tour operators are navigating behind the scenes, from rising costs and staffing challenges to planning for disruption, before closing on what responsible travel really looks like in practice.

If you want to understand where travel is heading and why trust, curation, and expertise are becoming the new luxury, this episode is essential listening.

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Transcript

Guided Travel’s Big Moment

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast, where we explore the people, ideas, and forces shaping the future of global travel. As always, I'm your host, Dan Christian, and today's episode is all about the evolving world of tour operators and why guided travel is having such a powerful moment right now. Joining me today is a true leader in the industry. Terry Dale is the president and CEO of the United States Tour Operators Association, also known as USTOA. He's been in the helm for over a decade, guiding its strategic direction, strengthening its voice in government advocacy, and building deep relationships across the global travel ecosystem. As only the third president in USTOA's 50-year history, Terry has played a pivotal role in elevating the organization's influence. And with his leadership now extended through 2028, it's clear the industry is doubling down on his vision for the future of U.S. tourism. For those less familiar, USTOA represents some of the most respected tour operators in the United States, many of which I've worked with or worked for, as many of our listeners know. And collectively, they are responsible for billions of dollars in travel sales and millions of travelers worldwide. It's an organization that sits at the center of some of the biggest conversations happening in travel today, from sustainability and destination stewardship to innovation, distribution, and the evolving expectation of modern travelers. In today's conversation, Terry and I are about to unpack the current state of the tour operator sector. And I'm so excited for this because I've been looking forward to meeting Terry for years and the biggest trends that Terry is seeing among his members and how traveler behavior has shifted in recent years. We're also going to get into why, in the age of people doing their own bookings, that more travelers are actually turning back to guided and packaged experiences and the value that tour operators bring in an increasingly complex travel landscape. And finally, we're going to explore which destinations are booming right now, how operators are navigating the challenges like rising costs and staffing challenges, and how sustainability continues to shape decision making across the industry. Plus, we're going to look at the role of technology, including AI, and what it all means for travel advisors, operators, and the broader ecosystem. So, Terry, it's great to have you on the show. Let's start with your journey.

Terry Dale And USTOA Explained

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Can you share a little your background and how you came to USTOA? It's great to be here with you, Dan.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So the journey of so I have been here actually 15 years now. And the greatest job I could ever ask for, my members, and I know I'm paid to say this, but my members are the best. And what makes my members unique is that even though they're competitors, they respect each other and they enjoy working as, you know, uh industry partners. And that's unique in a trade association environment. But leading up to USTOA, I was CEO of CLIA for eight years, starting back in 2003. And before that, I was EVP of NYC and Company, which is New York City's tourism organization. And Providence, Rhode Island is where I started. And so that's kind of how I got to where I am. I have been very fortunate to have this journey. It's been wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Well, and I you come so highly acclaimed in the industry. Obviously, there's a lot of colleagues we have in common. And today I was mentioning to Terry just before we started how delighted I am to meet him properly. He kindly asked me to speak at two of their virtual conferences, which was an absolute pleasure for me. But this is what I've been really looking forward to is the chance to speak to him directly, to get to know Terry, because so many of my colleagues rave about being in your presence and the conferences they've been to and the work you've done in the industry, which, you know, integrity and tourism is the overarching mission of USTOA. And I would love, though, for all of our listeners, for those of them that are not familiar with USTOA, obviously I gave a bit of an overview there in my introduction, but tell everyone a little bit more about USTOA and the role that USTOA plays in the travel industry.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

So, Dan, we are a voluntary trade organization. Uh, over five decades ago, a group of tour operators, actually based in California, felt that their image was being tarnished because some of the tour operators back then were not doing right by their customers. So they said, let's get together and form this association in California based on around the word integrity. And we have carried that value to this present date. So today, USTOA represents 53 corporate members who own and operate 143 different tour operator brands. Now, that may not sound large, and that's intentional because we don't focus on, all right, Terry, your board of directors has told you you get 20 new tour operators as part of USTOA in 2026. That's not how we operate. We add maybe one, maybe two tour operators a year if they fit our culture, because that's more important. We're not about quantity, we are about quality, and we are about integrity. So we are intentional in keeping it small, and then we partner then with roughly 750 associate members. And that's obviously our hotel partners, our DMCs, our airline partners. And we are also very careful in keeping the ratio between the tour operator and our associate members at about a four to one because we want, again, our success is based on relationships. And I sound old-fashioned when I talk about relationships, but we want to know who we're working with across the table from. And even though I know we've become a virtual world, we still value face-to-face contact and keeping accessibility and an intimate relationship as part of the equation for our success.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

That was excellent. I mean, a great overview. And obviously, where you started there, Terry, was the need for there to be a governing body, not to say a regulatory body, but certainly a governing force that would ensure that, from a consumer point of view, they knew that these tour operators, that they have been validated, they've been vetted, they're trusted, and to bring that consistency and ensure that the tour operators that are doing the great work that most of them do, that customers have the full confidence in booking with those operators because they're part of USA, USTA, and they meet your standards. And it's one of the things that fast forwarding through those 50 years, tour operators are as important as ever. And uh a lot of people seem to think that the whole tour operator category was something that was um, you know, people riding on a coach and following a guide waving a flag. There's this sort of uh unfortunately, having worked in the industry for many years, there is still a stigma associated with guided touring, which is a totally outdated concept. But clearly, at some various points in time, there were, and every travel association is trying to prevent anyone coming into the space that is not going to do best by their customer and honor refunds and make sure there's a great customer experience. So I value the importance of USTOA, but I'd like for you to share with all of our listeners about the state of the tour operator sector today, because it is a big business and it is a growing business. It's a dynamic business. There are so many innovative things that tour operators are doing. And you know, from knowing the sector so well and the growth potential over the next 10 or 15 years with the baby boomers and um you know the shifting demographics, this sector is just continuing to grow. So tell us a little bit more about the overall tour operator sector and and how you see it today.

The $1 Million Consumer Safety Net

SPEAKER_00 8:20

I will gladly do that. But there's one important thing that I didn't mention earlier. And as you were talking, I'm like, so this is what is key to our success. So I had mentioned, you know, we have over 50 corporate members. Each of those 50 corporate members are required to participate in our million-dollar traveler's assistance program. So they post a bond or a treasury note or a letter of credit with USTOA that I hold, and I hold that million dollars for all 53 of these members. In the unlikely case that one of them would cease operations, the consumer can come to us to recover their deposit that they had on with a particular company. So what this means is we hold ourselves to a higher level, a higher financial standard, because we want to relay to the customer that if you're dealing with a USTOA member, you're dealing with a credible company. And so I'm not aware, Dan, of any other association in this country or globally that has a program like this that provides this layer of insurance to consumers. So I want to make sure I stress that. And, you know, for if you're a small business and you're looking to become a part of USTOA, which we encourage, but that's a big threshold to tie up a million dollars of equity that I hold, you know? And and so it's it's a it's a high threshold, but it's important to who we are. So to get to your question, uh how's the state of the industry? So we partner with PwC every other year to do an economic impact study for us. So we are in the process of updating this information uh starting this month, but our last study said that we are a $24.5 million billion dollar industry. We take 8.5 million American citizens to all seven continents. We purchase over $16 billion in goods and services. So those are your airline tickets, your hotel rooms, attractions, so on and so forth. And we've seen steady growth uh throughout the certainly the time period that we started this study with PWC. Why are we going to grow? Because our value proposition today is stronger than it ever has been. And here's why. When I started in this position in 2011, my the weekend before I went into the office on Monday morning, Arab Spring Rising was taking place. And I go into the office and I'm like, what are we supposed to do at USTOA? So, you know, we didn't have Teams and Zoom and those things. So I just set up an emergency conference call, sent the instructions out to all of our members and saying, if you want to jump on the phone with me, I'd like to listen and learn. So we had this great response. And what I heard, Dan, was many of our members who had customers in Cairo at that moment had already chartered planes with other USTOA members. And together they were working to get their customers out of Cairo. And if they couldn't do that at that moment, they got them out of the city center to hotels that were safe outside of the heart of where this was happening. So if you were a solo traveler or a traveler without a USTOA member, uh, and you were waiting for the State Department to help get you home, which they will, but it can take 10 days, two weeks, three weeks to make that happen. My members already had the wheels in motion on that February in 2011. So when you think about travel today and how it doesn't matter whether it's a geopolitical event or Mother Nature flexing her muscle, there are disruptions that happen. And having the security net, the safety net of a USTOA member there for you. So if that should happen, we are gonna make sure you are taken care of. And so our value proposition every single day, whether it's a pandemic or a war that we're embroiled in today, we're there as your partner and we're gonna take care of you.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

That's great. And obviously, that's why the assurity, that the trust factor, when a traveler is looking at tour operators and they see that validation of US TOA. So I'm glad you mentioned that the million-dollar fund, because I know that goes back to 1972, and this is where the history of our category, you know, you did how unfortunately, and any industry is susceptible to this, you know, have a fly-by-night operation that collects money from guests and doesn't operate a trip. And so today, most consumers don't even concern themselves with that because it's incredibly rare given organizations like USTOA, but that is the importance of an organization like yours.

Travel Advisors And Trust In Booking

SPEAKER_02 13:30

The other thing I wanted to ask you, Terry, just to set the stage before we get into some of the trends that you're seeing that I'm so keen to ask you, is when you look at your membership. So, and for those of you who are multitasking, as we're having this conversation, it's USTOA.com. Um, so you can learn for those tour operators who are listening to this, like companies like WeRoad that are expanding to the US that definitely need to become USTOA. Uh, when you are looking at uh bringing on a tour operator into aside from the $1 million uh financial commitment, which is obviously, as you say, substantial and sets the bar high, what are some of the other factors that you consider before you admit someone to what is kind of an exclusive group?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Well, you have to bring to the table 18 references. And of those references, Dan, you know, two have to come from financial institutions, two from airlines, two from hotel companies, so that you have your partners in the industry vouching and saying they're credible. Um, we've had history working with them. So it's really a combination of references that we uh lean heavily upon. And two of those 18 references have to be uh existing tour operator members. So they can say, yes, we know Company X is a good fit for US TOA.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

That's important context. And then the other part I wanted to ask you too is travel advisors, because this industry and the distribution, as we know, it's a high-touch product, and it's given the complexity of a group tour or guided tour, many people do book through travel advisors, and travel advisors have you know had an incredible renaissance post-pandemic. And so you have this concept of tour operators, you have the associate members as well that I'd love for you just to highlight when you talk about those 700, who they are. You mentioned obviously hotels and other suppliers. Um, but I'd love for you just to speak a little bit about the travel advisors because they obviously look for your trust and validation, and you clearly have resources available for them as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

So tell us a little bit more about the other rules that people uh Dan, when I talked about our value proposition increasing with time, uh, I see the same trend happening with travel advisors. And uh we need them to be successful. Um, we need them to explain to the consumer, again, why they should consider a USTOA product over maybe one that isn't. So, you know, 90% of our members last year said that they will utilize the travel agent distribution system. And and that's key to our success. So um we have seen them um grow with us as an industry, and uh it's a it's a partnership that's not going away. Because if it does, we're all in trouble. But can I can I tell you just I like to tell stories, so interrupt me when I get off track. But I want to tell you about my my dentist in Manhattan. So I'm guessing my dentist is mid to late 30s, and his wife is becoming a partner in a major law firm in Manhattan. And I'm guessing she's around the same age. And so, of course, when the dentist is working on your mouth, you can't really talk. And he doesn't really understand what I do, but he knows I'm in the travel industry, so he's always like, you know, where have you been? And I'm like, where are you going? So what I learn is my dentist booked an escorted tour on one of our members. Now I couldn't really he, you know, I'm trying to talk and so I was like, so how did you come upon booking with this USTOA member, which he didn't even know they were USTOA members? He said, they called a travel advisor and they worked with the travel advisor, and the person recommended this product, which is a USTOA product. And I said, why? That sounds so contrary to what you hear about everyone books direct online, so on and so forth. He said, My spouse and I don't have time to make a mistake. And yes, we went online and did some research initially about where we might want to go, but ultimately we determined we want a professional to help guide our decision to get the right fit. They had the tour, they had an amazing time, and they'll do it again. And I I just love that story because it's totally unhe does, like I said, he doesn't understand what I do, that's okay. But here you have a dentist and a lawyer in Manhattan working with the travel advisor, taking a USTAW experience. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

It's a perfect example and in their 30s, because this is not dirty, just for 50 plus or 60 plus. And you, you know, you make a really good point there. And I think one of the things that many people still don't fully comprehend, and I think those are the people I want I especially want to reach with this episode, is the value of tour operators. Because often on on stage, when I was at the travel corporation for many years, talking about brands like Trafalgar and Insight and Kotiki, and even before at G Adventures, you know, I've uh I love this industry in this space. I love group touring, escorted tours. We, you know, none of us can agree on the exact nomenclature, but we know the style of travel that we love, and we know how impactful it can be on people's lives, the fact they love traveling with other like-minded people, and they get to go out of their comfort zone. They wouldn't necessarily go to these destinations on their own, but they'll go with a group tour with a leader and a guide, and they'll have some of the most amazing trips of their lives. And it's not something they would piece together themselves. And I always remember Trafalgar doing the Trafalgar talks and the customers asking questions as to you know why a Trafalgar trip and the team would talk about things like, you know, you don't have to drive, you get your bags taken to your room, and you know, everything is pre-planned for you. It was often the wife that was start strongly encouraging the husband to go, and the husband would ultimately have a fantastic time as well, and they'd book again. But for those people who are wrapping their heads around um a tour operator, I've always talked about the fact that it was almost like an accordion that people started to try and book these trips themselves and realize that how time-consuming, how complex they were, and also the fact that they're not going to have the same experience as a group tour with a tour operator. But I'd love to hear it from uh from your words.

The Real Value Of Tour Operators

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Like, what do you think is the real value of a tour operator today?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Well, there if there are too many to get into, but first of all, you use the word complex, and it is. You know, I think many times we oversimplify because we think we have act well, we do have access to a lot of information. But rest assured, my members are vetting every step of that experience, and every um provider that's whether it's the hotel, the attraction, the restaurants, so you're getting this expertise that you don't have on your own. So you you can go into this experience with confidence that the vetting has been done and you're in good hands. And then the other thing that I think is important um is that there is flexibility and there is breathing room for you to customize your experience. So I don't want you to think that, oh, guided, escorted, it's rigid, it's you know, bump, bump, bump, bump. There's a framework. But within that framework, there are windows for you to decide I'm gonna do A, B, or C or X, Y, and Z. So that you still have that feeling of I've put my stamp on my experience, but the tour operator gave me the framework to um make it easy and seamless. And you know what, Dan? At the end of the day, um shared experiences are better experiences. And sometimes, and I'm the worst at this, sometimes I think, no, no, no, no. I want to do this on my own. But darn it, when I rub shoulders with someone sharing that experience, and then going over that over a glass of wine at dinner that night, there's Something special and magical that happens. And so I think, and that's what travel is all about sharing these experiences and building these bridges between cultures and countries. And gosh, how lucky are we?

SPEAKER_02 22:14

I couldn't agree more. I mean, I worked with Jeff Russell for a number of years at G Adventures, and one of the things that he pointed to that stayed with me, and I actually did mention this when we did a spotlight episode on the National Geographic Signature Collection they've recently launched, which is that one of the things you have to keep in mind for travelers is that this is the third largest uh purchase they're likely going to make after a house and a car. And but in many ways, it's it's that much more important and meaningful because it's actually their holiday. And what I mean by that is this is the precious time off. So it's not just the $10,000 or $20,000 they might be spending on a trip. It's the fact that they only get a week or two weeks if they're still working before they're retired. Therefore, there a lot is riding on this holiday to select the right company, the right experience. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

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SPEAKER_02 24:57

And now back to the show. Why do you think people are turning back to guided travel and packaged experiences now more than ever?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

I I think um you know, we talk today about uncertainty. And there's a lot of uncertainty that's filling our world. And you know, to travel with a tour operator gives you certainty. And I think that comfort, that confidence that comes with that is driving, again, our value proposition. Because so many things we can't control. And and the and even with travel, we can't control everything. But this is one less thing to keep you up at night.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Absolutely. Yeah. Especially when you're going to a place that you are, you know, it that was a different language. It used to be the case that you know the people gradually travel further afield as they get more comfortable. Um, but these are places that might not be accessible to you as an independent traveler, that it opens up some of the most amazing cultures and sightseeing opportunities in the world. And that's purely based on the fact that these operators. So let's get into a little bit of the of the trends, please, Terry, because you're obviously very close to all of these operators. So you know the destinations they're focusing on, you know the types of experiences they offer and whether it's longer itineraries. I'd love to, especially post-pandemic, because that was the theme of our podcast, of course, was how traveler behavior changed post-pandemic. And we certainly saw many people just rushed out and book the trips that they weren't able to do. But also, people changed the way that they approached to travel. Sustainability became more important, um, and that feeling of connection to your exact point, Terry, that people when we became afraid of each other for a little while when we were wearing masks and the idea of being able to travel in groups, because we were all for briefly and then for a moment, it was all about private groups and and and social distancing. And it really took away the heart and soul of uh, I would say, of what's so special about a group tour. And so I would love to hear, you know, post-pandemic, what are some of the big trends that you've seen in traveler behavior and how tour operators have come back? Yeah.

Smaller Groups And More Custom Trips

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So I I think um certainly one trend is for smaller groups. And um, and that's not going to go away. You know, a group of 12, 16 smaller groups uh is certainly a trend that we're seeing. We're also seeing um customized travel. You know, again, it it's good to have this framework, but people still want to customize to put their own mark on it. So customize is definitely smaller groups. River cruising is booming, and um, and that's not going to change. So, I mean, and then sometimes, Dan, I feel like we a lot of what we talk about never changes. Even though it's a trend, it's it's we've talked about it for so long. But multi-generational, you know, the the boomers have the time and the money, and they want to invest that time and money for their children and grandchildren to experience travel with them. So multi-generational, although we've talked about it forever, continues to grow and build. So it's a the trajectory is still alive and well.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

That's a great example. I know working closely with Uniworld, they were doing a lot of multi-generational trips with various itineraries and having guides for the for the kids. And as you know, um with Apollo buying TTC, now Trafalgar offers river cruises, and you know how well companies like Tauc are doing, and uh what and people are choosing that they'll do a land-based tour and then they'll do river and a combination of both. And companies like uh Global Journeys out of Australia, they they were very focused on specializing and giving travelers the opportunity to book a river cruise and a guided tour, like in one platform and experience. So you're absolutely right. I mean, obviously, of course you are, but that you you see the data. The other thing I was also keen to know uh beyond the personas of the types of people that book guided tours, is the destinations that you're seeing amongst the fastest growing. I mean, clearly there's always Italy, France, there's always the top European destinations. But where are you seeing some of the growth with new destinations that people are seeking out for American travelers?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Aaron Powell Well, Dan, you know, Europe is kind of our bread and butter. So when we survey our members about the top 20 destinations slash countries, 14 of those 20 are European. Right. So but but um we've we've seen a lot of uh momentum behind Portugal, which is wonderful. Um but Europe um is a mainstay. But we've seen Japan um with some momentum, uh Vietnam, um we've seen Colombia. Uh so there are obviously other areas, Antarctica, um, that are you know building up. But uh the backbone of the industry is is Europe.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, it was certainly always the case. If Europe had a good year, the travel corporation had a good year. It even those emerging destinations, as you pointed out, wouldn't replace the load and the uh yield and the the the revenue opportunity that Europe provides, just given the infrastructure. I mean, as you point out, river cruising, the rivers in Europe. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

It just it dawned on me. I didn't mention Morocco. Oh, of course. And we did our out-of-country board meeting in Morocco uh just a couple months ago. And uh I just have to say we had an extraordinary experience on so many different levels. It's a great country, and it is one of those countries that we're going to see and hear about they they they love their football, and they'll be hosting the 2030 World Cup. And and they have qualified for the World Cup this year, so they're gonna be playing Brazil June 13th at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. So they're gonna have a lot of momentum through their passion for football, which so many countries have. And uh I look forward to them continually moving up.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yeah. Well, last time we played in the World Cup, Canada and Morocco were in the same group, and I have great friends from Morocco, and I've yet to travel to Morocco, but it's it's it's next on our list for my wife and I. We're ever so keen to get to Morocco. You have to. You have to. I'm a big fan. Well, and that's why I was gonna ask you about emerging destinations that you are seeing, and clearly that's that's

Fast Growing Destinations Right Now

SPEAKER_02 31:47

one of them. That is one of the things I would love to also hear from you is kind of the flip side of you know our optimism and enthusiasm for the industry about the big challenges that tour operators are facing today. Obviously, we all went through this global uh crisis, and we but I always talk about the travel industry going from crisis to crisis, and clearly you've seen that in your career. I came into the travel industry uh right after 9-11. And there was, again, at that time, there was obviously an incredible downturn in people taking flights, and and the question always was, how long is it gonna take travel to come back? And I still remember standing in my office in uh Orange County at the travel corporation looking out the window during the you know six months into the pandemic and focused right now, we're still saying it was gonna take 10 years for travel to come back to pre-pandemic levels. And as we know, it took three and it took you know and four, and now uh record numbers, you know, even greater than what we saw pre-pandemic. And we had such a banner year in 2019 and going into 2020 until the world shut down. So that obviously was a really challenging time, especially when getting staffing back on board, because a lot of people got let go during those tough times. And then as business came back, companies had to rehire very quickly. And so tell us as we have this conversation in 2026, and you mentioned some of the geopolitical events, the war in Iran that hopefully, as people listening to this, is eventually resolved and the Strait of Hormuz is open and oil prices come down, and people aren't uh panicking about not being able to get jet fuel. Or and so these are the crises that we know in our industry. But tell us a little bit more about overall in our industry, what are the biggest challenges for tour operators today?

Rising Costs And Crisis Readiness

SPEAKER_02 33:24

And obviously, rising costs is one of them, but how they operate these trips given global events, what are you hearing and seeing from your members?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Well, value continues to rule as king. And so putting putting together that package travel that gives the experience at a price point that the consumer sees as there is value built into this. And and consumers are willing to pay for, you know, for their hard-earned money. And we don't take that lightly. So I think, you know, being able to get the right elements at the right price point when we don't know, Dan, that jet fuel is going to jet through the roof, we've already put a package out there at a price point, and we don't pass on that additional cost to the consumer. So I think trying to manage the cost associated with the experience so that both the customer is happy and our members can still make profit, you know, which is important, but I think that's always the challenge. And then expecting the unexpected, you know, that's just fortunately the American traveler has become more resilient. You know, I was um running NYC and company during 9-11. And I thought during my career, check the box, you'll never have to deal with something that of that magnitude. And lo and behold, then we have COVID, which was worse than 9-11. And for me, the whole world wanted to see New York City come back bigger, faster, stronger. So we had everyone pulling for us, almost everyone. And and yet with COVID, the whole world suffered. And therefore, it was even harder than 9-11. So when I tell myself, well, we'll never have a crisis of the magnitude of a pandemic like COVID, but yet I've learned you just don't know. So I think it's that. And you ask, you know, what is it out there? It's the unexpected, it's the unknown, but yet our members adapt and the consumer is more resilient. And therefore, travel, it's not going to take a decade. It's going to take two years, maybe three years to get back to whatever is considered normal. But it's how how are you prepared for the unexpected? That's the biggest challenge.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, it's a really good point. And one of the things obviously you've seen over your time, especially when you have operators that uh have razor-thin margins. And we certainly saw when you've got increased competition, and I I definitely saw this in the adventure space. You different operators would wait until another competitor releases their brochure or their catalog, because that was very much for so many of us, how we package and sold our products through travel advisors. And that's obviously evolved considerably. But many tour operators still produce brochures, and then when you print a brochure, you've got to put pricing in it. And other companies would wait and then they would price underneath. And it was sort of how our industry obviously that was that was that was how cutthroat our industry is to an extent, right? And but when uh companies were doing that, they're also decreasing their margins, and then they get exposed when an event like this happens. And some of the companies that are very focused on, and it was something I learned from certainly from Stanley Tolman and obviously, you know, Brett Tolman and the Tolman family, trying to make sure that your margins, you focus not on the lowest common denominator, which is price. The idea is to sell the difference and to make sure that and in in tough times when you've built in uh more margin into your product or your more profitable business, it gives you the uh increased likelihood to be able to withstand. And that company obviously nearly got to 100 years. And a lot of these operators that you know, Colette and others, they know that. And so it's it's very much part of their culture. DNA, exactly. Yes, yeah, well said.

Sustainability That Feels Approachable

SPEAKER_02 37:26

And now, uh one of the things I'm very keen to ask you about is sustainability and this concept of responsible travel. I know USTOA has been a leader in promoting responsible travel. But tell us a little bit about how sustainability is evolving within the tour operator space.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Well, Dan, it's uh one of the things I'm most proud about as an association. Um I remember when I interviewed for this position, a board member on the committee said uh sustainability. I tried to get a committee formed at USTOA, and no one would raise their hand to say, yeah, count me in. I want to be a part of this. And now as I look at our association and our members today, and we honestly are leaders when it comes to education and inspiration about why it makes business sense to have this sustainability responsibility factored into the travel experience. So we'll be hosting our fifth uh sustainability as responsibility conference in Anchorage, Alaska. Gosh, in two weeks. And we did the first two in Norway, then we went to Singapore, then we went to um Spain, and now we're in Anchorage, Alaska. But here's what's most important it needs to be approachable. I think sustainability, when we first started, was overwhelming to our members. And there was also this sense of I don't want to be embarrassed in front of my colleagues because I don't know how to start. And that was the greatest thing that I could have learned was you start tomorrow, you start two years ago. We all start the journey on our own timeline. And we do not judge. We come together and we learn from each other about what worked, what didn't work, how can we share with each other? So as an industry, we are improving the experience and we're also preserving and protecting, you know, Mother Earth. So for me to see, you know, five years ago, some of our members saying, we haven't even started, I'm embarrassed to say that. And I'm like, that's okay. That's okay. So um we have made, my members have made tremendous progress. And um and we are hoping uh to expand that uh every year.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Aaron Powell Well, and this is one of the reasons that people choose tour operators that have uh a purpose and a mission that the consumer uh the traveler identifies with. And sustainability used to be one of those things that ranked in the top ten when we used to do our focus groups at the Travel Corporation. We did it with Kontiki in particular, and we would find that sustainability would rank eight, nine, or ten. And it was something that would be uh they want to see that as well, but it wasn't a deciding factor for them. But post-pandemic, we're seeing this often rank in the top five, if not the top three, that people are looking for your sustainable credentials and making sure that you're having a positive impact on the community. And so people are asking those more difficult questions and they're seeing other industries, and I'll just say, you know, some of the big ocean cruises and understanding the impact they can have or and the limitations about getting money into the local communities, which tour operators have always been very focused on because that's part of the experience. And they need to be mindful of ensuring there's a consistent experience for future travelers to go to these communities. So they have to be very conscientious of their impact. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

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SPEAKER_02 43:57

Everyone's moving into small group touring. And the There's lots of benefits to that, um, being that you can ride, you can take local transport. That was always sort of one of the reasons you take more of an adventure tour than a coach tour. But I'd love to understand from your perspective, when members are growing, how do they balance protecting the destinations and the communities they serve? And I'd love to hear some examples from your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

I'll give you um the most recent example in Morocco. And we have an associate member, Travel Link, a DMC, who have started a foundation. So it's the Travel Link Foundation. And Ahmed, uh, the founder recognized that in many of the rural communities, young girls did not have access to education unless they walked three to five miles to get to a public school that allowed girls to uh come and become educated. So what does he do? He starts building schools and today has 16 schools for young girls where they not only, you know, um are learning, but they're also learning tangible skills, whether it's weaving, ceramics, things that they can produce to uh feed into the uh tourism infrastructure. And when I see examples like that of meaningful travel and how my members are building it into the customer experience, that's what it's all about. When you're able to look at the contributions that our members are doing to their communities, that then also contributes to the overall traveler experience, it's unbelievable. And it's why we do what we do. And so that one story from Morocco, I can tell you other stories from other parts of the world, whether it's you know, G Adventures or Colette, Tauc, the Travel Corporation, they do amazing things. And uh that's what's I'm most proud of. Yeah, and those are stories that really don't get told. I didn't know about Traveling Foundation and 16 schools that they had built until I took my board meeting to Morocco. And I see it firsthand and I'm like, this is extraordinary. But they do it because it's coming from a place of sense and purpose and their heart.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

And I that is one of the beautiful things about our industry in our space that clearly we share a passion for because when I look across the space when you know G Adventures with Planetera and Plan Objects, the women's weaving project in Peru, but then the travel corporation with TreadRite and Shannon Geehan has been uh a great friend and been on our podcast a couple of times. She's told that. Sustainability? Yeah, she's fantastic, right? We love it. And they came up with the idea of uh make travel matter. And so make travel matter experiences, and they started with Kentiki and moved to other brands. It used to be that sustainability was putting a certain amount of money towards sustainable projects like you know, saving the turtles or things that were adjacent to the travel experience but made travelers feel better about themselves for choosing that particular company. But the real success story, as you were pointing out, is integrating these experiences into the trip so that travelers can actually see the impact that is being had. And that's the beauty of these make travel matter experiences that TreadRite has implemented across the travel corporation brands. And it's it changes the whole experience. Every tour operator wants to build those in now.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

I have to I have to share uh another story, and this is a Brett Tolman story. So Brett and I, along with I don't know, 20, 25 other people through Tourism Care, were in Jordan. They are launching their meaningful travel map, and so we had the opportunity to stop at several locations, and the majority of them are women's cooperatives, where these women are learning a skill, whether it's rug weaving or ceramic making. And after I think our third visit, Brett, of course, he's always on his phone, and he looks over and he says, I just sent uh an email to all of our brands saying, when coming to Jordan, you have to, have to, have to have these three places that I just visited integrated into our customer experience. So that's how it happens. You know, when somebody who owns the company feels passion and commitment for helping and giving back to the people who call this place their home, that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Travel matters. Travel matters. And I'm I really appreciate you sharing that story because you know, having worked with Brett for nearly a decade, he walked the walk and he truly believed in sustainable. And it was it was and it was not about um uh outdoing the competition, it was about doing the right thing. And actually, I've been to that uh women's cooperative in Jordan, and that was really powerful because and I went there with my wife and two kids. My I was raised by a single mom, so for me, always understanding the op creating opportunities for women in travel is always something that's been meaningful to me. And then seeing that that particular cooperative and the fact that these women who were unmarried and didn't otherwise have a role in society and they uh would learn these skills, and we the number of things we bought there and the gifts for other people, and like we just and it was such a delightful experience. And you can see it's one of our most cherished photos as a family trip, and the kids still remember that experience and the women that we met, and um and it was it it I wouldn't have had that experience if Brett hadn't made that connection and mandated that across the brand. So it's very real and very meaningful. I'm I'm I'm really glad you and Tourism Cares. That's another great organization that I'm glad you called out. Yeah, it was interesting uh too, Terry. Working with the Adventure Travel and Trade Association, Shannon Stoll, who's obviously um um very active in this space as well, someone that you know. One of the things that I was speaking to him about is the fact that you know sustainability is now an essential. Like no one's gonna choose a company in the adventure space or in the tour operator space that doesn't have sustainability at their core and built into their business. And so now all of a sudden, you're now seeing companies that are doing more innovative things. And um, so tell us a little bit where do you think this is headed? Because obviously you sound very optimistic about the future of sustainability within the tour operator space. You've mentioned a couple of really interesting projects. You know, where do you think we're headed on this on this path?

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Well, that that is a good question. So I would say today the the package travel that we're delivering has sprinkled within the experience some of what we described in Jordan or Morocco. But I think you're gonna see that grow. So instead of uh sprinkled, it's gonna be almost an expectation from the customer because once they taste and see and feel and touch what you've seen, what I've seen, um, they're gonna want uh more of that. So I think it's just gonna expand more into, you know, we again trends, experiential travel, but it's just gonna become more human to human, meaningful, and responsible. It's just gonna get bigger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

And I think the the the collaboration, so just to finish on that one, too, the Iraq El Hamir Women's Cooperative, which is obviously what uh Terry and I are referring to, and that project was uh a tread right grant, but in association with tourism cares. And the background, I mean, it goes back to '93, there were 33% unemployment for women and giving them these opportunities. And this is where I think partnerships, uh, collaborations between operators and ensuring that it it doesn't become just a competitive advantage that one of them will go there. Because the reality is any number of tour operators can get involved and can partner. And so I just wanted to highlight that because a lot of it is it's partnerships. And um, and you know that's one of the things that makes our industry so great is the collaborations that occur. So uh I'm

Technology, AI, And Distribution Next

SPEAKER_02 52:29

yeah. And now I'm gonna flip the conversation to a topic that is another challenge for tour operators because this is where I'm sure you see this as well with you know board meetings or or uh tour operators coming to you and they have challenges around sustainability, they have challenges around distribution, and they have challenges around technology. And so that that's where I wanted to go next because our our industry is often seen as one that is behind in terms of technology. And there's always been, when I've been to the uh the focus right conferences, you'd always see Expedia, some of the big OTAs that would say on the main stage, we're a technology company, not a travel company. And I always used to say in my chief digital role at the travel corporation that we are a travel company, not a technology company, and we're not confused about that because our mission and ultimately is actually taking travelers on these trips, not just building a marketplace. So, and a lot of these tour operators, as you know well very well, Terry, them being around for as long as they have, they've built in-house technology. And sometimes it's antiquated and it's legacy, and they're trying to figure out how they compete in the modern age with AI and everything moving as fast as it is. And some of these companies have built powerhouse technology teams within their business, and that's where you know EF is being a good example. A number of the company uh organizations that you're familiar with have real strength in technology. And I wanted just to understand that from your perspective because smaller operators are clearly more challenged in that regard with being able to build out their systems. There's lots more uh software companies like Captio is a good example that is now active in this space with you know, Tauc and G and um Intrepid as clients. And so we're seeing that their technology starting to catch up, the companies are moving to. But ultimately, I guess what I'm keen to ask you, Terry, is how is technology changing the way tour operators operate and sell their products? And how are you seeing the technology side of these tour operators? Are they really embracing it and growing a strengthening, or is it a real challenge for them still?

SPEAKER_00 54:29

So I don't have the answer, but I will tell you this. Uh, we started a technology working group four years ago, and then it became a standalone committee, and the momentum behind this technology group within USTOA is huge. And at the end of the day, people come into it almost like sustainability. We're not competing. We want to learn from each other, and and so there's a full embracing of it. I don't know where it's all gonna lead. I mean, right now, AI is being used for, you know, research and marketing, um, some customer service. We're not looking at it, or I'm not looking at it as threatening, but how do we leverage it so we're more efficient on behalf of the consumer experience? But I can just tell you that when we do monthly webinars, packed. So there's huge interest, and there's huge interest in wanting to figure it out. And we will. So I don't know, I don't know where we'll end, but we will.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

It's a great honest and transparent answer. And I appreciate you being so candid about it because that that is actually uh most companies are now just starting to embrace generative AI. We did an AI summit in 24 and then in 25, we've got another one coming up in October, and the whole idea is just trying to help the travel industry navigate this emerging technology and see the benefits, but also uh overcome a lot of the challenges and obstacles. And so, you know, the the one thing that's really fascinating, Terry, this to bring us back to technologies that relates to distribution, is that the distribution that we have known for so long with travel advisors is as strong as ever. So one of the things we definitely have not seen yet is that AI is taking bookings away. It is changing the consumer journey, that is for sure. And and what I mean by that, of course, and uh I'm sure you see this as well, is that more travelers are using generative AI tools for trip planning. So they're coming to their travel advisor, they're getting ideas by virtue of using LLMs rather than traditional search engines. So they're they're coming to travel advisors better informed, but they still need to rely on a travel advisor to make the best recommendation for them as to who they should travel with. Yeah. And so, yeah. So I wanted to finish on that topic to ask you about distribution today and what you think that looks like in the next few years.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Let me let me just close the loop of where we started. Gosh, almost an hour ago. Back to my dentist and his spouse who's a lawyer in Manhattan. Yes, they went and used AI to do research, to look at itineraries, but ultimately felt it was in their best interest, both from a value perspective and a time perspective, to work with a travel advisor and ultimately book a USTOA tour operator. So it's it goes full circle. You know, it's gonna help us. We don't want to be threatened by it. It's gonna help us, it's gonna help the travel advisor distribution system because we're all in this together.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

And I just, yeah, in closing, there's a couple last questions I'm keen to ask you about the outlook for the industry in the future, given that you do reporting and analysis and you have these deep relationships with partners. Looking ahead in 2026 and beyond, what excites you most about the future of the tour operator industry?

SPEAKER_00 58:00

What excites me the most is the innovation that I see our members creating these uh experiences that I was like, who, how, where, why, look good for you. This is amazing. So I I think it's that innovative spirit that drives uh our members ultimately to provide that customer with an amazing experience. And these, like we said, or you said early on, you have two weeks, maybe three weeks. We're gonna we value your time and we're gonna make the most of it. So I I I think it's just the innovation.

SPEAKER_02 58:42

And then when you have tour operators coming to you and uh looking for your Sage guidance and advice, uh I was keen to know what operators and industry stakeholders in the tour space, what you think they should be paying attention to in the next few years. Obviously, we've talked about sustainability, we've just talked about technology and and distribution. Obviously, all of those things are at play there. What are the things that you are guiding people to make sure that they're paying attention to?

SPEAKER_00 59:10

You know, I'm not sure I'm the right person to guide, to be quite truthful, but as I get older, um my advice is listen, listen more, listen to your customers, uh, learn from your customers, and that will help with your vision in what you create moving forward. So it's not it's not profound, but I tell myself uh more and more, listen.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

So I'm gonna shut up and I'm gonna listen.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Well, we have this uh concept of consultative selling, which obviously exists in other categories, which is literally just not don't pitch the tours, listen to your customer, understand what it is they're want, what are their motivations, and then be able to offer something that is unique and personalized to them. So I think that's that is sage advice there, Terry. I have to say. Uh the uh last question I had for you, and then I'm I've got one about your personal travels and what's coming up. But for someone listening to this that hasn't taken a guided tour before, clearly you and I know this category so well, and you're you know, the true expert in this space, but um, we obviously know, and you said it really well when I asked you about all the benefits of of working tour, but there's so many we can't even get into them all. But if you were to encourage someone to book a guided tour that hasn't before, like your dentist, when they came to you and said, what would you recommend? What would you say to encourage someone to take a guided tour?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

You have nothing to lose, only to gain and benefit. I'll say that. Honestly, that's yeah, if you don't you know it's it's we're so as a society, and I d I don't like speaking in broad swaths, but you know, we're quick to judge, but if you haven't tried it, how do you know? Yeah, so try it, um, and you're gonna love it. Yeah, you're gonna love it. You're gonna find out yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

And now finish off on your personal travels, Terry.

Iowa Roots And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Obviously, you are an avid traveler, you have your conferences, you're very uh You know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

What's next for you? Dan, um my personal travel is going back to my family farm in Iowa uh and spending time with family because I travel so much with this job, which is a gift, that it's really about staying connected to Brooklyn, Iowa. I've lived in Brooklyn, New York for over two decades. And so I love both Brooklyn's for very different reasons, but uh for me it's connect keeping connected with the family.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

Yeah. Well, for me, uh Iowa holds a very special place because I was a huge fan of the book uh Shoeless Joe, which was turned into the film Field of Dreams, of course. Yeah, and I had a chance to go with my dad, and most of our listeners know the story of our podcast because I stepped out of my corporate role at TTC to take care of my dad when he was dying of cancer, and I moved back from LA to Toronto, and I'm so glad that I did, and I started this podcast as a direct result of that. It was one of the things I'd said to him that I'm gonna start a podcast because he tried to convince me not to leave my corporate role at the time. And but the one the most amazing trip I ever had with him, we drove to Chicago, went to Wrigley Field, and uh my wife and kids came to and his partner, and we then went on to Field of Dreams in Iowa um to visit the house, and they had actually it was July the 4th, and they had the most incredible recreation of the game with the players walking out of the cornfields, and I got to play catch with my son and play catch with my dad on that field. And in this uh in our TV room in the house, I've got I've got a beautiful picture mounted on the wall of that farm and that field. So Iowa, like I said, is this is is this heaven?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

No, it's Iowa. Dan, I'm going to invite you uh this August 11th, I'm doing my summer board meeting in Des Moines, Iowa, because my board for over a decade has wanted to go to the Iowa State Fair. And for over a decade, I have said no. I don't want that responsibility. But finally, I thought, you know what? It's our country's 250th anniversary. They want to go to experience the Iowa State Fair. So who am I to say no? So join us for the Iowa State Fair, August 11th. I will be there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

This is the year of the road trip, and yeah, absolutely. We've been doing a lot on the 215th anniversary of the U.S. And I would love to be there. So it's an honor to be invited. Count me in for sure, Terry. Save me a seat at the table, and I would love to join you. But it's been such a pleasure speaking to you and getting all your insights. Thank you so much for joining us and being a part of the conversation. I look forward to seeing you in the near future. And I wish you and the team at USTUA every success in 2026 and beyond. Thank you so much. And thanks to all of our listeners for joining us for this special episode with Terry Dale, the president and CEO of the U.S. Tour Operators Association. It was so delightful to get this time with him. And I hope you learned a lot from this conversation about this sector that I often talk about on the show. Now that we had a true captain of industry like Terry join us, make sure to check out USTOA.com for more information about getting involved as a member, learning about the benefits of our travel advisors. And of course, now you'll be paying attention to all of those tour operators to see if they are USTOA certified and part of the community. But I just wanted to say, yeah, thanks again to Terry. Thanks to our listeners. And don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on our social channels, which you can find on Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn. And we do send out a monthly newsletter that you can register for at Traveltrendspodcast.com. Thanks again for joining us. And until next week, safe travels.