One Loyalty Journey, Sixteen Airlines with oneworld Alliance

Loyalty has become one of the most powerful forces in travel and one of the most misunderstood. For travelers, it's about perks, upgrades, and lounge access. For airlines, it's a multi-billion-dollar business that influences everything from customer retention to revenue growth. But what happens when loyalty extends beyond a single airline and into a global alliance?

In this episode, Dan sits down with Gilbert Ott, Director of Loyalty at the oneworld Alliance, for a behind-the-scenes look at how alliance loyalty works, why it matters, and where there's still room for improvement.

We begin with Gilbert's unique journey from points-and-miles enthusiast and travel blogger to loyalty entrepreneur and, ultimately, one of the key figures shaping loyalty strategy across one of the world's largest airline alliances. From there, we explore the realities of delivering a seamless loyalty experience across more than 15 member airlines, from earning and redeeming points across carriers to reducing the friction and "gotcha moments" that can erode traveler trust.

Gilbert shares what travelers consistently value most, including reciprocal elite benefits, seamless recognition across airlines, and the enduring appeal of oneworld Emerald status, where perks like first-class lounge access can completely redefine the travel experience.

The conversation also tackles some of loyalty's biggest debates: points versus status, the misconception that programs are built around breakage, and why memorable redemption experiences often create stronger long-term loyalty than simply accumulating rewards. We discuss personalization, the challenges posed by fragmented customer data, and why flexibility may ultimately matter more than hyper-customization.

Looking ahead, Gilbert shares his perspective on the future of loyalty, from AI-powered member experiences and fraud prevention to a vision of truly frictionless travel. At its core, the goal is simple: fewer barriers, better experiences, and a journey where travelers can simply "keep on walking."

Thanks to Loyalty Status Co for sponsoring this series!

👉 Listen to One Loyalty Journey, Sixteen Airlines Now

🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 7 Title Sponsors for their Support: Bokun, Civitatis, Intrepid, Kaptio, Propellic and Protect Group

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Transcript

Welcome And Series Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast. This is your host, Dan Christian, and we're about to begin episode two of our second series on loyalty. Last week we were joined by the two co-founders of Loyalty Status Co., which I thought was a great way to kick off this series. They also are coincidentally the sponsor of this series, and I'm just going to highlight that now. Loyalty Status Co., for those of you who are not familiar, is an award-winning travel technology company that helps travel loyalty programs drive customer acquisition growth and silly revenue through their elite status programs. Loyalty Status Co owns and operates statusmatch.com. And for more information, you can find out about them at loyaltystatus.com. And I mention that because I'm a big fan of Aaron Murray, who's the CMO. She joined us last year. And I actually wanted to bring them, the two co-founders, onto the podcast. Mark had been on an episode spotlight before. It was the first time for me to meet Stewart, but it actually provided a really great introduction to the state of loyalty that segues to the conversation we're going to have today with Gilbert Ott, the director of loyalty at OneWorld. And so this is a great segue, great timing, especially for those of you who heard last week's episode. Um, but first off, let me welcome Gilbert to the podcast. Great to have you with us. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Thanks so much for having me, Dan. It's not every day that you know travel trends calls, so really happy to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Well, of course, you're most welcome. I've had uh Roger from OneWorld on our podcast. We did aviation last season, and One World's been top of mind for us uh when it comes to loyalty. Came up a lot of times in last week's conversation. And obviously, we had the chance to meet uh just recently at the Aviation Festival of the Americas. So it's really cool to meet you in person. So really keen for us to be able to record again. And maybe let's let's start there because what I didn't appreciate until I had a chance to meet you was both your background in the loyalty space and also your new role within OneWorld. So tell everyone

Gilbert Ott’s Loyalty Origin Story

SPEAKER_02 2:00

a little bit about your background in loyalty.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Okay, so yeah, I I have had somewhat of a unique background. I started off my career as a travel blogger, the B-word. Um and I loved it. I was obsessed with points. I was kind of always the water cooler person. My previous career in the music industry, where everyone said, Oh, you know, what should I do? Ask Gibb. Um, and so I started blogging with a very simple thesis, which was that at the time, this was you know more than a decade ago now, you know, close to two decades, that it was really complicated. Everyone was speaking in these kind of you know cryptic words. And and, you know, uh I I just I thought if my dad, who's a you know, smart guy, corporate lawyer type, can understand how to do this, there's a problem here, and there's probably a bigger opportunity for for the industry if they could ever kind of make it make sense. And so I came in with that thesis. Uh I started a blog called God Save the Points. It grew fairly successfully. And then from the back of that, I started consulting for quite a few airlines, banks, um, hotel rewards programs. And then um I was one of the early founding team members at Point Me, uh, which was a kind of first of its kind reward search for points, so you know, the way people use their um kayak and all that to look for flights. We we created this thing which was was new and different. And um, you know, One World has always been a huge passion of mine. I've I've always been a you know desperate One World Emerald Chaser and really valued the program and and and what it means globally. And so when the opportunity came to uh to join the alliance and to work for for my boss, Roger Blackburn, who you who you know, um I jumped at the chance.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah, I totally get it. I mean, Roger's a fantastic guy, and when I was doing my panel last week, he was in the room and I introduced him as one of our most popular guests ever. And um uh the C which is genuine, he was a fantastic uh guest on the podcast, but also he's very knowledgeable, had so many years at British Airways, and then One World, and then your CEO was also in the room at at the same time. And um but what I was gonna say with your background, just for our listeners, that you know, just to get a sense of your expertise around loyalty, obviously, as you mentioned, you were in the the music industry for many years. You were actually in LA, you moved to New York, um, you ran God Save the Points. Point.me was it was and is an incredible success story uh in the loyalty and and travel space. Um, despite the fact there was a lot of other companies doing similar things, they managed to carve out a unique position. Your uh role there obviously is director of partnerships, and you've gone from LA, New York, to London. And I know you're in London, and obviously now ideal for you with uh this incredible opportunity with OneWorld. So tell everyone about your role as it is today

What A OneWorld Loyalty Director Does

SPEAKER_02 4:40

as the director of loyalty at OneWorld Alliance. What is it you do and what is it you're focusing on?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

This is the most popular question. I I love this question. Everyone has kind of a different flavor of what they think it is, and they're always at least somewhat surprised when I when I give the answer. So hopefully there's some flavor of that for everyone listening. Um, you know, no two days are the same, but but generally, you know, I think that One World as an alliance is this incredible connective tissue for the work that our members do to achieve amazing customer relationships. You know, everyone loves their airline status, they chase it, they desire it, it unlocks really meaningful travel benefits. And the only thing better than that is when it has, you know, applies to uh to a global scale, right? You know, so you're loyal to one airline in one geography, they might not fly to another geography, but you know, if you're with their partner, you know, their one world partner within that geography, you're you have your lounge access, you know, maybe if you're a Sapphire Emerald member, you have your first class check-in, et cetera. So, you know, it's that kind of uh it's a belief that this really is a strong system. And so, you know, we're looking after everything from ensuring that the basics work, you know, from an earn and burn perspective. We want to make sure that, you know, when you fly a One World Airline, you can pick your favorite frequency program and earn points with that program. And um, same for redemption, you should be able to redeem your points across the alliance online, good capability. So there's a lot of that, you know, the really basic stuff. But when you multiply that across tech systems, 15 airlines, and growing, talk about that in a bit, I guess. But um, you know, more and more complexity enters the game with each partner and then making sure that that's a kind of aligned, good process that the customer can depend on. And then, you know, beyond that, um, you know, we're doing really interesting things of trying to enhance the guest experience. What can we do to recognize you better? You know, whether you're flying your home airline or a partner airline. Um, are there things we can add value to your daily life beyond just when you're in the skies or when one of our airports? So I think you know, it covers a whole lot of ground, but we work really closely. I think if you were looking for kind of a business alignment, we work really closely with our customer experience, digital teams, um, you know, to really find those pain points and address them. It's, you know, I think we don't shy away from that. We want to be the one that's, hey, if this is a problem, we need to know about it, we need to fix it.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Well, one of the things I'm keen to understand is what drew you to the travel industry itself. Because clearly you now have a very important role within the industry of um, you know, the director of loyalty at OneWorld. That's obviously an exciting role. But it clearly you were in music before, but you got into this uh points and miles. Tell us a little bit about what drew you into covering loyalty with your blog, and obviously you were shaping it at the same time. But um tell us a little bit about why you got industry in into the industry in the first place. When you mentioned people asking you, Gibb, tell us what we should do. Was it the fact you were just always traveling, collecting miles to travel as much as possible?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Pretty much. You know, I think uh I I read on an airline napkin somewhere in the 90s that if you you know joined their program, you could earn free flights. And I thought that was really cool. And so I immediately signed up and I actually got the physical frequent flyer cards sent to my family. I enrolled everyone in my family in the program. And they looked at me like, what the is this? You know, and I said, Don't worry, it's all gonna work out one day. And you know, uh as as a truly like young kid, it was compelling to me. I I thought, wow, like what could be cooler than than a free flight? And yeah, I think you know, everything has kind of come full circle since then, you could say probably.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yeah. Well, it's it's amazing how you know the for all of us, we would find our way into the travel industry one way or another if we uh love traveling and then we end up discovering that we love the industry and you actually can enjoy both if you um because it's it doesn't feel like work if it's something that you're passionate about and otherwise interested in. So I'm sure that feels uh very much the way for you and your role because you were doing this already, and now all of a sudden you're doing it for a large global company. And um, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about first, and this is very much a segue from last week's conversation, which is the difference between airline loyalty and alliance loyalty. And it's a question that I was keen to ask you for this discussion, and I'll give uh some context to this and then keen to get your take. I spoke at length last week's I spoke at length on last week's podcast um to try and highlight my experience as a Air Canada and Star Alliance super elite. And obviously, I know there's the three big uh alliances. There's one world and there's Star Alliance and there's Sky Team. Um but one of the things I wanted, and it really it's all dependent on where you're based and where you're flying. When I lived in Australia, I was Qantas, and in the UK, British Airways, so I'm One World as well as Star Alliance, but simply by virtue of where you're based, the carrier you're primarily using, you end up choosing to fly with that particular carrier. So I'm not beholden to one uh alliance over another. It's just really tied to what's the most practical. And so when I was talking about that with um with Mark and Stuart, what I was highlighting to them is I see huge value of being a Star Alliance member. So for me, I it's not about being part of Aeroplan. It's really about being part of the Alliance because I get access to other lounges. Like, you know, no matter I can fly with any of the Alliance partners and earn earn not only my points, but ultimately what we focused on in our conversation last week um was status, of course. And uh I'm keen to break out the conversation with you today between status and points and miles so we can talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

I'm not sure we can. I'm not sure we can. You just you just gave the perfect description of of why it matters. I have no notes, so I think we can just you know roll credits and and go from there.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

All right, well, we will come to that. But let's start broadly

Airline Loyalty Versus Alliance Loyalty

SPEAKER_02 10:20

with the question of airline loyalty versus alliance loyalty. So how does you know One World, Alliance, like change that dynamic with people being dedicated to one airline versus a alliance? What what is your view on that?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah. So first on behalf of One World, thank you for your loyalty in case Star Alliance hasn't said the same to you. Um, you know, we really do value your business. Um I think, you know, from a genuine perspective, alliance loyalty is exactly what you just said. It is this connective tissue around the globe. Your preferred carrier may go in many directions, they may have a certain frequency to many places that work, but every once in a while there isn't a global airline around the world which doesn't have what you need if you are a truly global traveler or someone who's looking for optionality around schedule, you know, um type of aircraft, et cetera. And that's where to have that global recognition is just such a differentiator. And I think that, you know, within one world, what's differentiating is the emerald tier. You know, you can get up to your gold tier, and that's excellent. It's business class lounges, but you know, when you have a membership that has a lot of first class products, it's very cool for your loyalty to be able to give you access to those first class products, the first class check-in, the first class lounge, you know, those boarding groups. Um, and so I think the alliance really does provide that international comfort blanket for the traveler who goes everywhere and even the traveler who usually is very regional. You know, I hope everyone gets that opportunity to go somewhere far and wide and discover that the network is pretty incredible. There's almost a thousand One World destinations, and that's not something that anyone one one airline can say.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah, well, and the number of times, and this is where uh OneWorld, some of the lounges that you have, uh particularly British Airways in Heathrow and the gin and tonics that you can get. Like it's like people become you need to because they're extraordinary. But I it's one of the things you as you're uh uh a frequent flyer and traveling, it's it becomes part of the overall experience. Um, is that the an expectation there that once you achieve that status that you're gonna get access to these lounges and it becomes part of what you enjoy and look forward to each time you're traveling? And so this is actually what I wanted to dive into first from a traveler point of view. Since everyone listens, even though this is a B2B podcast, we're all avid travelers and we're avid flyers. And so, from a customer perspective, what do you think is the most meaningful part of the One World Alliance program? Like what are you seeing, especially if you know you've just joined in the last six months? I'm sure a lot of this is all kind

Benefits That Matter Most To Flyers

SPEAKER_02 12:55

of uh standing out to you now as you're looking at the data based on what you thought on the outside, and now you're on the inside. What are some of the most meaningful benefits? Lounges obviously has got to be right up there. Um, but what are you seeing that people value most?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Such a good question. I think there's two brains for this. You know, one is the somewhat indulgent brain, the other is the very practical, thank you for doing this for me. This is a really helpful brain. So on the practical brain, I think seat selection, free seat selection, especially across partners, is incredible. You know, the the fact that you're able to select a preferred seat, um, even sometimes a bulkhead or you know, front of a cabin seat is a very cool perk, especially because you know virtually everyone's charging for seats these days. So that's real money that you're able to save on a journey, you know, and globally, not just with your carrier. 15 plus carriers now within one world, as I think you know, we were gonna alluding to, you you know, we had uh Pal is accepting a um offer to join the alliance. We're thrilled to be adding them. Philippine Airlines, you know, incredible hospitality. So we're gonna be, you know, if all things go to plan, you know, adding another member and we should push towards over a thousand destinations. Uh, you know, and so I think the seat selection is is huge. You know, I mean, to be able to do that with everyone, you're recognized with everyone. That's the one that I hear about often when when I kind of get into like the if we had to take one away, which we would, you know, no plans, don't worry. It's not hot news. Um, you know, but like if you had to hold on to one kind of like, what would it be? The seat selection is always the one that actually creeps up on the practical side. On the socially newsworthy and just really fun makes the airport a lot different side. It it is the lounges, you know, and especially that we have the Emerald tier where your status can unlock a first class lounge. I don't know if you've ever been to, let's say, the the Qantas First Class Lounge at LAX or um any of these kind of global propositions, Cathay First in Hong Kong, um, JAL first in in Tokyo Hana. These are pretty exceptional experiences, you know, like a la carte sushi and you know, pr you know, chef-designed menus. And to be able to have that be a thing, regardless of which program you're loyal to, it's pretty incredible. It's it's it's the one that I think for the traveler who really wants more, it is that more. It's it's an experience that is tough to compete with.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Well, you mentioned obviously Philippines Airlines, which is an exciting development. It actually was uh mentioned on last week's podcast because it had just been announced after I saw you guys were off to Rio, and then that was the big announcement. So one of the keys to Alliances is to make sure that you have global network coverage. And it's certainly one of the benefits I see, and that's where when you know the two major Star Alliance in One World truly have that. Sky Team uh is the third largest, and they obviously have Delta. Many people are loyal to Delta, they have Virgin, they have many great airlines as part of their program as well, but not the same global coverage as OneWorld or Star Alliance. So for you, obviously having that coverage in Asia is a big exciting development because now any OneWorld member is going to be able to earn on PAL Airlines as well, and they can also um have routes, as you mentioned, like a thousand destinations. So, my question to you is on this is consistency and loyalty experience, especially when you have new brands joining and service levels. So tell us a little bit of how you actually make that work

Consistency Across 15 Plus Airlines

SPEAKER_02 16:10

at OneWorld so that any one world customer has a consistently great experience across all of your carriers.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Fun topic. You know, so everyone does have different levels. Um, but I think that this the shared threat is that everyone is seeking excellence. You know, everyone wants to be premium and we kind of we we celebrate the differences on the brand side and we really try to be increasingly consistent on the loyalty side. And to me, that's really chipping away at the gotcha moments, you know, like within our loyalty team, you know, we really think like if there's kind of an exception to something, it probably shouldn't exist. How can we make it better for the customer? How can we make this more consistent so that you know what you're being promised is what you're getting delivered? And and then I think on the you know, on the customer side, we have a customer service, a customer experience team, particularly that's just outstanding. They're they're doing regular audits of feedback, they're working with airport teams. How can we make this more consistent? You know, teach ends of how to recognize One World members. So I think that kind of stuff, you'd be amazed at how much work is done behind the scenes to actually enable that. It's not always easy. It's not always frictionless, but but we get there. And it's that it's that endless pursuit. I think I was I was on, you know, when we were together in Miami, someone said, you know, a lot of the best loyalty experiences just come from caring more. And I would challenge anybody to care more than I do or than we do about pushing a really consistent loyalty experience.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Aaron Powell Well, clearly um uh when you add new airlines, because like Hawaiian was one of the big developments before. And I should so clearly you're already you know you're continuing to expand the opportunities. Is there anywhere that currently, from your vantage point, that there's still um a missed opportunity

India Coverage And Taj Hotels Partnership

SPEAKER_02 17:55

that you're still looking to either add uh more capacity or uh regional coverage? Is there anything that's kind of stands out to you? Um is still an opportunity for OneWorld to expand into?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Well, I'll you know, I'll give you an example from this week, which which was hot news um and something we're very proud of, which is that we have partnered with Taj Hotels, you know, the India Hotel Company Limited to offer guest um reciprocity to some extent, some status recognition, eventually some points earning, you know, from our members at their hotels and a discount for all One World members. And and that's an example of a market, India, which you know I deeply care about on a personal level. I have a tattoo in Hindi on my arm, won't show it now, but um, for another time, you know. Uh it's it's uh it's an incredible market. We care deeply about it, but you know, we do not have perfect coverage there. We have some great coverage from from member airlines, but we do not have a domestic carrier. And so for us, you know, to be able to extend the guest hospitality for you know a One World B, Sapphire, or Emerald onto the ground and have them have tangible benefits, not only in India, but through the global Taj portfolio, and then vice versa, for Taj guests to have a reason to care about us, you know, it was a really kind of dream-come true situation. And and that was one where we matched ambition with ambition. And we I think there's a lot more to come there. Watch this space, but it doesn't have to be an airline, it doesn't have to be, you know, something deep and integrated. It can actually just be, hey, we care about your guests and you care about our guests, and and let's let's do that. We'll

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_00 19:25

be right back.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

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SPEAKER_02 21:53

And now, back to the show. Well,

Building Partnerships Beyond Airlines

SPEAKER_02 21:55

let's talk about some of those partnerships outside of the airlines themselves. And you mentioned uh Taj and obviously. Hotels and any accommodation, it's really those are the two kind of big loyalty areas is um airlines, hotels, and then you have car um rental companies as well. We talked about OTAs a bit last week on our episode as well. But the reason I want to talk about partnerships is because as people see the benefit of their OneWorld um status being applied to other opportunities, whether it be experiences, um the credit cards that they hold. Um I'm keen to know how OneWorld fits into all of this and how you approach partnerships outside of your airline and your carriers. How do you guys look at partnerships? Are you are you specifically focused on hotels? Are you focused on experiences? How are you rounding out the opportunity for OneWorld high status members to be able to utilize either their status or their points or miles?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

To use a very corporate term, I would say it's a very cross-functional kind of effort. We have an amazing brand team. You know, we have really um great member engagement too. And I think, you know, for us it's it's looking for partners who align in seeking that premium guest, being a premium hospitality experience, um, trying to elevate what they're doing now. And it's a disciplined approach because of that. You know, it has to be I think we're we're we're very open. You know, I was I left a meeting in London today with a really interesting brand that would be a different vertical. And we will continue to take conversations wherever we think guests will want to go and what they will expect from primary loyalty preference. That's kind of the way that we like to frame it. We want to be your primary loyalty preference. You know, I don't want it to be your bank or your hotel. I would like it to be some function of us extending that. And so um we we want to go where the people expect us to and and do better than they expect us to.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Well, and here's an interesting one uh from my vantage point, when I look at airline loyalty programs, and it literally connects to why you got into the industry in the first place is you know, free flights. And when you look at loyalty programs, it's that simple, right? Like it it it truly is, and for most people, is like they look at their credit card company and they're running commercials showing the travel experiences they'll get if they use these uh uh credit card programs. So like it's all tied to the incentive and the reward being travel. And what I find really fascinating about that is that um the if your focus is on opening up travel experiences, why not not just be limited to being an airline focused uh loyalty program, why not be the full travel ecosystem loyalty program, the one world beyond just airlines, the one world of hotels, the one world of uh so I know I'm painting a a um uh a bit more of a utopian view though of what could be, and it's likely not in the plans for one world. And one of the reasons I want to ask you this question is because last week when we were having this conversation with Mark and Stuart about uh loyalty programs and their tie to airlines, is that we did see 10, 15 years ago, a number of airlines spin off their loyalty programs, and there was a brief moment where they were worth even more than the airlines. And Stuart is a CFO from uh Loyalty Status Co. had highlighted that you know now the airlines are worth more, but and most of the airlines have bought them back, and they've bought them back very intentionally because they've realized that the the flying experience and status and being um uh a lifetime customer is that much more important than just the loyalty, the than the points and miles that they're uh earning as well. And so their focus, and you know this obviously because you work with them, their focus is status. I'm intrigued about points and miles, which is one of the reasons I said, let's put a pin in that and come back to that because I want to ask you about that as well. But my specific question on this point is that could alliances like uh One World become more of a full travel ecosystem, or do you think they'll always remain airline focused?

SPEAKER_00 25:53

I think I think discipline is the key. You know, we we have we have a deep interest in serving the customer however best we can. You know, we have round-the-world fairs so that they can get around the globe well. Um we have some really cool products coming, you know, for for the meeting and events space. Um

Should Alliances Expand Beyond Flights

SPEAKER_00 26:10

you know, we want to be able to to get what people need from us. We want to serve that. And I think over time, the you know, I I can't speak to the future specifically, but I think it's this relentlessly analytical approach to it. And, you know, if it's good for the guest and it's good for our member airlines and we can increase something, then, then we're gonna look at it. That I think that's my my take for now.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah, and that's where I'm excited to see how this space uh continues to evolve and grow. And I I do think there's there's um significant potential there depending on how you market it and position it. But let's let's talk about uh the points of miles, because I'm keen to get your take on this. It was very clear from the loyalty status team that they're you know, that status is the primary driver. And you know, I agree to that to a large extent from my personal experience, uh, because I see all the benefits from being a frequent flyer that's traveling more than half of the time. I love the lounge, I love the uh priority uh boarding and and uh you know being expedited through the airports, all these and having like multiple bags, all that all the benefits of status speak to me, and I do not want to lose that status. The points and miles, however, is typically, and you can educate me here because you've got a lot more expertise on this with your background, but I've uh I've worked in loyalty companies. I understand that model of points and miles and not only in giving people the earn and burn, the terminology you used, and obviously a lot of um there's no question that points and miles shape customer behavior. And if if you can purchase products and earn miles or points in the program of your preference, it will shape customer behavior. They will buy that bottle of rum or they will choose that particular item because they're gonna get these bonus miles. And companies sell them for the very clear purpose of, and you know, I the the valuations all vary. And again, this is exactly the math you were doing because it's like, is it a tenth of a cent? Is it one cent? And then if you're going to redeem it based on what you're redeeming it against, this whole burn, um, is it a good deal or not based on the currency and the trade value? And airlines want you to use your points and miles because they're holding uh a liability on their balance sheets, but they want you to do it at a way that's advantageous to them so that if it costs you, you know, if it's one cent for them when they sell it, and if it costs you know two cents for you every time you redeem, there's a nice little business model there for anyone who has a good understanding of uh foreign exchange and and where the real profits are. So this and again, I'm I I don't mean to get into um uh too much of a nuance on the points of miles, but what I wanted to bring back for this conversation is the overall point, the overall value of those, because ultimately, yes, I uh value the status, but I utilize all those points. And I use them to book my kids coming home from university or my mom coming for a visit,

Points And Miles Versus Status

SPEAKER_02 28:50

or like I use all those. I and so I know there's value being created there, and I take full advantage of being able to utilize those when it's appropriate. So for me, the answer actually is both. I would love to hear from your vantage point, especially given your background. What's your view on points and miles and how important they are in comparison to status?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

We're gonna need more time. I can go on for quite a while about this. Um I'll say this. I think that, you know, number one, I have to mention One World Airlines typically win most of the awards for the best loyalty programs globally. You know, American, Alaska, Obvios Group, you know, like there's a ton of positivity. Quantas, of course, Cathay. We have an incredible slew of programs. They represent over 37% of the top 20 loyalty valuations globally. Uh and their currencies, you know, if you get into that sense per point kind of nerdy level of, you know, what is a mile from one of these programs worth, they're typically the most valuable points as well. So they that opportunity cost to use them is very strong. You know, I think what what's really cool is that when I look at the model that lots of members and lots of airlines globally are using, specifically with our members, I would say breakage is not the model. No one, for everyone listening here, none of these programs want you to not get value from your points. They actually really do, because what they've learned over time is that if you find value, if you enjoy your points, you will come back and you will have a lifelong relationship. And so I think whereas, you know, of course, other alliances probably certainly not ours, you know, in the past, maybe there was actually hope that you would earn a lot of points, not be able to redeem them or redeem them for a toaster. That's not at all the goal. I think that they, you know, the smart ones have realized that that doesn't actually create the relationship you want to be in with the customer. And so for me, I'm very proud that we offer really cool experiences, including first class, right? You know, not everybody cares about first class. For some people, it's a discount on a MacBook. But I think being able to serve all those viewpoints is important. I I love you know your example of getting the kids home from college. Sometimes it's just nice to save money and not have an expense that would otherwise, especially during peak travel periods, be very costly. So, you know, that's a big piece to me. I think status is really interesting as well. Uh I see points as engagement. They're a great way to stay engaged and keep the customer relationship growing over time. We we have we've built things together and you've gotten things from that relationship. Status is another one. And I think, you know, with status, we hear from the kind of loyalty minds sometimes about irrational behavior. You know, they're like, oh, we want the customer to do irrational things and choose us. I I think of it more about the rational side where, you know, actually I want to have such defined benefits which are so valuable to you that it would be irrational to miss out on those. And, you know, you know, we were talking a bit before we started about AI. And, you know, I think that's one of the interesting things with this, you know, kind of language model conversational agent model, where, you know, hey, who should I book my flight with? You know, if if that agent knows that you have first-class lounge access, first-class check-in, free seat selection, like even some of these, you know, lesser performing AIs are going to figure out that there's probably a lot of money on the table if you don't take that option. So I think that's where we want to be the best at recognizing the status and and and the perks and offering the stuff that that even an AI model understands is really, really valuable. So they always tell me I'm right, then I question them and then they realize I'm wrong. So I'm I'm yet to fully believe that they have all the answers to all of our problems, but I also am not a skeptic. I I know that they have a lot of power.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

So it sounds to me that your answer would be both. Like I obviously I'm not gonna push you to weigh one way or another as far as what is the uh overarching preference of guests, because I mean some of that is subjective, but wouldn't um and personal preferences, uh what I should say, is that but from your vantage point at one world, it's a combination of status and the points. Like and that when you define the success of your program, it's the fact that, and you are absolutely right that, and it's one thing that it's different than say gift cards, where breakage is actually one of the ways that those companies also make money, uh, is that people don't actually redeem them. You're you're right, there's a misperception out there that uh airlines are hoping you don't. They actually do want you to, they just want to find the right way to continue to incentivize your behavior in a way that so yeah, I guess my final question on this one is do you think it's a good idea?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I'll give you an answer if you want. Yeah, I'll give you the answer. I think I think points are the gateway drug to lifelong status relationships, you know, because when I when I use my points and I fly business class for the first time and I experience the check-in, the lounge, I'm kind of like, I don't actually ever want to go back there. I'm staying here. Like you can't remove me from this seat, you know. And and then they bring the duct tape and they say, Mr. Ott, not you again. Um, but you know, but you know, jokes aside, I think it is that thing where um once you've experienced a premium airline experience, you get it. It's it's not an easy thing to market, it's not an easy thing to understand. But when you're facing, let's say, a 16-hour flight and you see a first class suite, a business class bed, you kind of get it. And when you get to try it from points, which you earned through this relationship, you're then kind of like, how do I do this again? And status is a great way to get there.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Yeah, it's uh actually it it's not only funny, but it's also very accurate. I mean, just the It is it it is the it's the first thing that gets you hooked is and you talked about uh getting cards for all your family members, and we made sure we got our kids' cards because you want to get them started. It's like you know, you need to make sure you have a loyalty program. Get started. If you're gonna book a flight, get join the loyalty program. Like get started right away, get points or miles from that first flight because ultimately it leads to status, and status is what keeps you there or holds on to you, but points is worth it.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

You get more points, you get more benefits, you get all this stuff. Like it's it goes faster now. Like, ooh.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

It's good stuff.

Personalization Limits And Flexibility

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Here's another hot topic um from last week's discussion: personalization. I um I was asking both Stuart and uh Mark about what I thought what they thought was the most overhyped area, and they both said personalization. I said, you can't say personalization because it already came up in the conversation, is that we keep talking about personalization, and I'm very bullish on AI, and I'm also bullish on the potential for more personalized experiences as a result of having access to that technology and what it can mean. But at their points were both very valid that you know a lot hasn't changed. There's been a lot of promises around uh personalization that have yet to be fully realized. And I owned a few examples myself where, you know, the even with my status, um, that my preferred airline, there's clearly things they don't know about me when I'm making my bookings that would have probably made life easier. So there's lots of opportunity still to better personalize. So I guess my direct question to you on this, especially as you brought up AI, I obviously want to get into that topic as well. Um, but in terms of personalization, you have a unique vantage point of being across multiple airlines. What is your view on personalization and if that's actually possible across multiple airlines, or is that still uh a big challenge?

SPEAKER_00 35:51

So I think two things. Number one, I think AI and personalization, it's hard because the underlying data has to be right. Otherwise, it's instantly wrong. You know, so if on some survey one time 10 years ago, you ticked a box that said, I don't like sushi, and forever they've just assumed that you don't like sushi and the world has changed or your tastes have changed, that personalization is going to be inherently flawed, right? And so I think there's a lot of hype around it because it's not easy to have good data or to trust the data. And that's where I think scrutiny of what the underlying data for personalization, because obviously all personalization is coming from data points, you know, better scrutiny of what's real and what you really care about is part of that process. Some are further along than others, but ultimately I do think it it will always be a challenge to get it 100% right. Like you're gonna get that wrong happy birthday at some point, right? You know, it just happens. Um I think, you know, the the the midstep, not the end result, but the kind of midstep of personalization is flexibility. I value flexibility highly in my travels, and it's something that I know, you know, at one world we're certainly looking at for our travelers. I think flexibility is that opportunity to be you. You know, sometimes you have lots of people traveling with you, sometimes you have one, sometimes you're by yourself. We have very arbitrary rules for almost everything, you know, plus ones, et cetera. Don't have anything to say right now specifically on that, but I can say that flexibility matters because you should be you, whoever you are on the day, um, however you're choosing to travel. And that's not something that the industry captures very well right now.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Aaron Powell Well, when we talk about AI and technology, I'm clearly I'm sure you're starting to see partners across the group utilizing this technology in interesting ways. I'm keen to get your take on this, because obviously the example of personalization is is just one of many of how AI can be utilized. But how are you seeing AI in particular or just the way that um partners are utilizing technology that will influence loyalty across alliance

AI For Fraud Detection And Service

SPEAKER_02 37:55

partners?

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, you know, it's a fascinating topic. Uh I think a lot of it really is in the machine learning side of AI and the ability to look for patterns. You know, AI is very good at pattern matching above almost everything else, in my opinion. And you know, we have partners who there is a limit to how much information we're willing to share with each other. But at an alliance level, there may be an ability to pattern match of fraud is a big topic, frankly. You know, I think people would be surprised what an attempt at fraud there is globally within points. People think of it with with their money and their banks and everything, but you know, points are a are a form of currency. You know, they are they are really valuable, they they unlock great experiences and and people have you know, unfortunately, bad incentives to uh to try to make the most of them. And so we look at it from an AI perspective of you know, what pattern matching can you do? Can you spot bad behavior, malicious behavior, um, and what can we do about it? Other than that, absolutely useful for help desk things. I think you know how you deploy that matters, how it how you make it so that the customer isn't expecting to talk to someone and then they end up talking to an agent that just makes them want to throw their phone out the window. You know, I think we we we try to be on the right side of that. I think we always will. And you know, but there are these amazing tools that can really be helpful and get you timely information. It's just a matter of how that's digested at the user level.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Aaron Powell Well, let's talk a little bit about economics and and also the strategy of how loyalty programs operate. And this is where, you know, from your vantage point, um, I think there'll be some certainly interesting things that you uh hopefully can share with how loyalty works at a alliance level. For example, loyalty programs are known to be a major revenue driver for airlines, and that was part of the reason that they were getting spun off, and there was these huge valuations in the loyalty programs because they can sell these miles and points, and and given it influences behavior, they can sell them and they can find the right model to redeem at a lower valuation. And these are, you know, these have become nicely profitable programs under themselves. And I understand from last week's conversation, the whole idea is to better integrate them with the airlines. Um, but when you think about driving revenue and um and benefiting uh these individual carriers, what does that look like at an alliance level? What is the alliance model, if you will, and and how should we be looking at alliance programs in terms of their economic role and value in the whole loyalty world?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah, uh you know, I think at at a very basic level, we really do believe that a great guest experience globally is gonna have a very positive impact on each of these businesses. And the more that we deliver a consistent and excellent loyalty experience, that's what it's about. The economics of the loyalty programs really much are much more at the individual, you know, operating carrier program level. You know, they have the relationships with the credit card programs, they have the the transfers with the major banks, they have their you know shopping portals, et cetera. Um, you know, all of those things, of course, you know, you look at over time at the alliance level. There's an alliance that has a card out there in the market, in in a certain market. I I don't know how impactful that's been, but that you know, there can be opportunities to look at some markets and see w if it makes sense

Alliance Economics And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00 41:10

to to kind of bring a coalition together. But I would say, you know, from a very P ⁇ L perspective, it's it's it's internal. But I think you know, it's where you look at the customer relationship and that ability to keep them within, you know, within one world and and to stay loyal is is a big part of that. You know, when you look, I think if you if you talk to any great airline, their loyalty teams are deeply embedded with the customer teams and and how we handle things on the airport side, the operational side, the digital side, the CRM side. And so there's a lot of interdependency there. We have a very similar approach to to excellence, where it takes a village, we try to bring the village. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Well, it certainly from uh uh from my experience and my overall uh uh I prefer being a part of the alliance and the airlines. And my my loyalty is much more to the alliance than it is to the airline because you using that example of Air Canada and the Star Alliance is like if Air Canada wasn't part of Star Alliance, I would just choose another carrier that would give me the global networking coverage. And it's interesting because it's the same with uh hospitality, and we talked about a little bit about this uh in last week's episode, and we'll talk more on next week's we'll focus more on hotel and hospitality is you know, like companies like Marriott Envoy, is that many consumers won't even consider staying at a hotel where they can't earn Bonvoy uh points and continue to build their status. And the same applies with alliance programs. So for me, whether it's One World or Star Alliance, um the whole idea is I want my loyalty is to the Alliance. So another question along the same lines, and this is where it's fascinating having you here for this conversation, um, uh to understand how alliances work and also where they're headed. So one of the things I was also keen to ask you is like in a world of uh more direct bookings, um, are you seeing alliances become more valuable? Like, how is the role of alliances changing as consumer behavior change? And even in terms of personalization, obviously that's one aspect of you know, as technology improves, you ultimately want a guest to have a seamless experience and all the things that you can do. And I was speaking on our AFA spotlight episode um to Guido, who you work with, um, and his role at OneWorld, with making sure there's a consistent guest experience throughout the airports. And a lot of airlines will lose visibility of a customer when they transition from one airline to another,

Frictionless Travel And “Keep On Walking”

SPEAKER_02 43:30

but One World doesn't because they have a holistic view of the customer. And so um that's where actually I see alliances becoming more valuable and more important as technology allows that connectivity. So yeah, keen to get your take on where you think alliances are becoming more or less important in uh the travel industry today.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Aaron Powell It's a real question. I'm glad you asked it. I think you know it's our fight to win, but it's a fight there that everyone's competing for eyeballs, everyone's competing for that top of funnel on the booking. Uh, you know, I've never believed that anyone has an inherent. Right to exist or to a customer, but I believe we're really well placed to win it. Guido, our VP of digital, is is is also a fight or two. You know, he's up for the fight, so is his team. I I think I always make the distinction with frictionless and seamless. You know, seamless, I'm wearing a blazer. You know, if it was seamless, my sleeve would be coming down the side of my shirt right now, and I would be wearing basically a vest. You know, frictionless, I think, is where we want to get to. And that's our ability to really do things at scale as an alliance. It would be really difficult to do times 15, let's say, across the members. You know, it's it's one thing to partner on a frictionless experience with one airline. Try duplicating that 15 times, you start to look at like three to five to 10 to 20 year roadmaps of integrations. You know, whereas if we can create a really nice framework for that, a really nice technology solution, a way for everybody to kind of interconnectively plug and play, hey, you know, that's saving significant time for the members, and it actually is creating that frictionless experience that the customer would like. And so it's a win-win for the member and the customer. And that's where we focus a lot of the effort. I know Guido does. I know, you know, Roger, my boss, Kerhart, our head of customer experience, does as well. We'll be right

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_00 45:15

back.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

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SPEAKER_02 47:12

And now back to the show. Yeah, it's interesting.

The Loyalty Renaissance And Better Benefits

SPEAKER_02 47:15

You guys have a great team, and I'm saying that very sincerely because I've got a chance to meet each of you over the course of the last year, year and a half. And you know, when you start to meet people throughout the organization, you realize there's like a consistent uh commonality when you've got a top-performing team or a team of all-stars like there, you tend to, and I find this through my corporate experience, is that hot teams tend to gel and stay together. And then when you move to other companies, they tend to then follow you as well. So, like, you know, when you start to realize, wait a second, there's some strong talent here, you realize actually it's a strong team and everyone's kind of bought in. And and uh and so one other thing I wanted to ask you, given that you have that dynamic where um as you know, Guido, Roger, like the the uh one of the things that I um very keen to better understand is the industry shifts and how things because I don't pay a great deal of attention to loyalty, I just realize the benefits of it as a traveler. Um as you should but you're but you're the one that's actually you know kind of the the wizard that's you know behind the scenes that's creating the magic that we otherwise would just enjoy our travel experience. So I want to know, you know, when I think about things like tiers and status, you know, I I'm always at the receiving end of like whatever the update is for my program to say, hey, this is some of the things we've changed this year, or you know, you now get to um uh you you get to make these decisions like twice through the year based on earning your status again. It was would you like more upgrade credits? Would you like to gift one to a friend? What are like and so I'm always keen on what's behind that because I always I know for my decision making, I know what I see value in and I choose it right away. I just want to use upgrade credits for sure. I don't care about lounge passes for other people. It's like actually, you know, I want to use that to have an upgrade myself so I can book the right class flight and get the business class experience and uh being a business owner, like you start to you know see what works for you. Um, but in the background, when you guys are actually managing these programs or making recommendations to your airline partners, what's shifting and changing? Is it the tiers and the status levels? Is that what resonates most? Are we seeing um headed towards something else where you hit a certain status at your status for life? What are what are some of the things that you see changing within these programs?

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Look, I I think I think I mean this genuinely, I think this is the renaissance time actually to be a frequent flyer, other than perhaps the 80s where you could get away with anything and nobody knew. And you know, we won't talk about that today, but there are some incredible stories of of lore from the days. You know, but I think now we we hit kind of your your question hits on two things. It's the personalization and it's the breakage. You know, if I have a really exciting sounding marketing benefit that you do not use, it is useless to you. And you're actually frustrated with me for offering you something that was of no value that sounded great. And so I think you know, then that goes into personalization where it's like, I don't want you to not use this. I do want you to use this, and I want you to use it the way you want to use it. And so those kind of milestone rewards or tier-based rewards or adding flexibility, it kind of hits that. Like we want you to use the benefit. We want 100% uptake that, you know, if you're an emerald member, please come use a lounge. Absolutely. Like we want you in there. It's a great experience, and we hope that it's the thing that drives you to stay loyal. Uh and the same with personalization. Like, you know, if if you're choosing between benefits, we want to understand that because there's a profile there. And and we can then dive further into that. Like once it's kind of like once somebody tips their hand a little bit of the way they like to think, we can go further. Like, what else do you like to think, Dan? And and and that's the, I guess, from your kind of, you know, behind the curtains, that's how I see it is, you know, the more you give us, the more there's I think people are generally somewhat surprised to hear like the more we want to give you and we want you to actually enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

Well, and just getting your personal insights on this, like when you look at the uh opportunities that exist for alliances, is there something that hasn't been unlocked yet? Is there something that you kind of see around the corner that is like, actually, this is where we're headed, or maybe this is a little too confidential for you guys to share because everyone else is going to steal your ideas?

SPEAKER_00 51:09

I can

Biggest Misconceptions About Loyalty

SPEAKER_00 51:10

tell them it'll take some time, but that we're working on it. You know, there I think flexibility is something that I'm deeply passionate about. And if you'd ever have me back on again after this, um perhaps in a few months I can tell you some more. But flexibility, I think, is let you be you on the day, right? I'm intrigued.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

And yes, we'll definitely have you back for our uh our summer list year. But on the flip side, what is a misperception about airline loyalty that you c often hear throughout your career and then also in your current role? What is something that you think that is actually you'd like to correct course on today for anyone who may misunderstand what the industry gets wrong about airline loyalty?

SPEAKER_00 51:48

I think it's a deep desire to serve the customer. I think you know we live in an interesting time now of transparency, and that is both very good, but it also means that some things which existed needed to be changed. And so I think it's always perceived in the worst possible way. Sometimes that's fair. It is what it is. But I I I think people would be surprised that actually it's uh sometimes we this is why we can't have nice things element to it, where there were things that existed which you know were fairly unknown before, but then you know, 20 million Reddit views later, everyone knows how to do it, and it's a problem. So you adapt. Uh that I I think is kind of a it's never as bad as people think it is. I've been very heartened and kind of happy to see how much people care about driving good customer outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

And I I take your point about seamless versus frictionless. So I've got one more question for you on uh kind of the future of loyalty, and then I've got a few fun questions I want to wrap up on. But if we if yeah, if we if we Yeah Well these are gonna be more personal and get and get some of your insights about how you've used points and miles and like, but um but yeah, in terms of the future of loyalty, I know you mentioned frictionless more so than seamless, and I think that's a uh a much better way to express it, since most that's what people are looking for, myself in particular when it comes to checking in, getting

Best Redemptions And Wild Status Runs

SPEAKER_02 53:05

to the airport, the whole current passport boarding pass reality that we still live in. Um if you could kind of paint a picture of what an ideal frictionless uh experience looks like uh for a global uh stat high status loyalty member, um, what would that look like, Gilbert? What is the ideal state for you? Because I'm I presume this is where you know you can't give away all the things you're working on of what you know what's coming in the next year or two. But ultimately we're we're working towards a better guest experience for flyers. And so I'd love to know what is kind of the ideal state. What does that look like to you?

SPEAKER_00 53:37

I have a three three-word answer for you. That's all I got. And I'll preface that with saying, you know, some of this is outside of our control, some of it is is about airports, it's about governments, but keep on walking is that is that dream state to me. You know, it's that everything being so frictionless that we are able to, you know, issue you a digital boarding pass. It's dynamic. If your seat changes, it's happening, you know, it's going through security without stopping, without having all these crazy things. We're w there's a lot of progress that's been made there. I mean, I don't I'm sure you you know you travel all the time. You it's starting to feel a little bit better. The scanners are finally being understood. Um, you know, there is a blueprint kind of of how that could be in the future where it really is happening, a kind of a keep walking element. And the same for entering a lounge, the same for boarding a plane. You know, I think you there's a beautiful world out there. It's not going to be this year or the next year, you know, or maybe five years from now. But the technology enablement of all of the things within the travel space is happening at a pace and scale which has never existed in history. You know, and I think there's there will be a day where, with very few exceptions, you can pretty much just keep on walking and and and get to your plane and have a and have that very frictionless experience.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yeah, that sounds ideal to me. And I think for those people who have their own private jets that already have that experience to go to a private airport and just walk right on and whe wheels up, that is the you know, the but for most of us who are flying um uh commercial, as it gets often referred to, rather than private PJs, um, we're flying commercial, you have to check in, you have to go through security, you have to go through customs, then you have to board your plane. So it is start, stop, start, stop, and that is certainly and you end up giving the same information multiple times to different parties because they have different systems. Um and I love the part that you said that I definitely uh also agree with is that it is starting to happen with biometrics. Like we see that when you check into your plane. We see that now with uh at Customs, and that is such a wonderful way to arrive in the UK, arriving in Heathrow and just scan, scan your face, and you just walk through. It is almost to that point. So I um uh I think that will really I think that will make a huge difference for many of us frequent travelers and also bring more people that otherwise are frustrated by travel. My son, who um you met, who was at the AFA conference, he's just studying to become a pilot, and very interesting. He's one of the very few people I know that his favorite place is airports. And so most people at airports is what we have to endure to get to where team.

unknown 56:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

He loves airports, he loves airplanes, he loves that whole he loves that that that's his favorite part. It's not about getting to the destination, it's the truly is the journey. Um, Gilbert, let's wrap up on a few fun questions and then uh I'll make sure that everyone can uh reach out to you, get more information. And um, but yeah, in terms of your experience, what would be the best travel experience you've ever redeemed entirely with points or miles?

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Probably a trip to Tokyo. You know, I I always say as my kind of disclaimer advice, points are not a savings account. You know, they do not typically, you know, uh add value over time. Use them, benefit from them. The opportunities that you have today are as good as it's gonna get. Uh, you know, I redeemed points for Katha Pacific first class and the nose of the 747. You can't fly a Katha 747, you know, as a passenger anymore. And so that in itself was rare and exquisite. And then I use points uh for a hotel in Tokyo, which was the end of that trip. And so I think I I'm always the fondest of the experiences which you cannot have anymore. And having achieved them through points makes them all the sweeter. And so, yeah, that's that's one of those up there for me. Also, 15 hours in first class from um Southeast Asia to London, you know, in a suite. Wow, that's an experience. You get to, you know, to to enjoy the entire service, the the food and beverage, and then um sleep it off and then and then wake up and feel fresh again on the other side. So I will forever be grateful for 16 hours and total bliss and comfort using points. Those are a couple of the ones that come to mind.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Yeah, those are great. Obviously, that's where you know that when those moments happen, it was worth it all that time and effort to build to get those points. You're just like, yes, this was absolutely worth it. Um on status, one of the things that I've certainly done is made a uh done last-minute flights to try and maintain my status when you realize that you're just below and even calling the program. You're like, if you're a thousand, we'll we'll roll you up. But you you know, so I would love to know if you or someone you know, what's the most outrageous thing that you've ever done or you've heard someone doing to maintain their status?

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Well, f I I I the things I know we could go on for hours about you know, there's an example from the 80s where there was a promotion, or 90s maybe, where there was a promotion that allowed someone to earn credits for short haul flying on a partner within Thailand. And so the person employed like a hundred farmers in Thailand and paid for their flights, they would just take flights back and forth because there was no restriction on who could actually be earning on behalf of that person. So the lure, as I said before, can go very, very deep on the earn side.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

What else could that lead to? Was that just a massive redemption of like points and miles? Is that what they were trying to do?

SPEAKER_00 58:55

I think it was a massive redemption of points and miles, and I think it might have been some status too. Um yeah, there's a lot of that. There's more than you'd expect. Uh for for me, I have valued status enough to go and chase it at the end of the year. Uh I also think people aren't always perfectly in tune with their tra their travel patterns. You know, when you see these thresholds change, people sometimes think, oh, that's ridiculous. But if you actually modeled it out, if you actually look at what you've done, you're probably in line. The programs are pretty good at figuring out where most people fall. Yeah, I've chased status and you know, I think that goes back to offering a product or a proposition. Certainly, you know, like our One World tiers, Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald, you know, are are the tiers where I think you you can really be grateful to have it throughout the year and it is worth chasing. Uh and so I don't blame anybody who who's going out there and and and flying a One World Airline to to make sure they have a great experience the following year, too.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

Yeah, I'm certainly guilty of it, even if it's like either a short a short haul flight just to make sure it puts you over the top. Uh I flew somewhere with my son just for the weekend so that we could I could make sure I um got to my status level. But the thing for me, and I'm sure many other business travelers who have the privilege uh of flying business class, whether it's all the time or some of the time, um, but one of the doing a long-haul business class flight is the game changer for your status, right? There's like for me flying back doing business class to Australia each year, that was the difference maker to stay super elite. So it's like you have to build that into your repertoire. You're like, at some point this year, I'm doing a business class flight to Australia to make sure I maintain that status. Because oftentimes, and now as you know, uh a lot of these programs are tying it to spend because some people were playing the game of doing lots of these short hole low-value flights as

Choosing Status Again And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

opposed to you know an expensive $10,000 flight like that that the airline RFC earns a lot more money on. So yeah, this place it continues to so one more fun question for you, and then we'll wrap up, which is um if you lost all your status tomorrow, what program would you personally bet on? And I guess kind of like a bit of a, I mean, I I guess how can you not say one world? But it's almost like I want to say outside of one world. But you know, if you were to lose your status, it happened to me after COVID that one year I got grandfathered in and I hadn't flown enough the next year to remain super elite. And it's obviously it feels terrible when you're out of the club. You almost like it, I felt lost, and I was have this deep sense of longing to be back a part of it. So if you lost all your status, what would you personally bet on to get you back in the game?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

This isn't the party line. I can say whatever, you know. I I have the freedom to be to be very honest. We have a very generous communications team. One World Emerald is the best status in the world. It is the only airline uh alliance status that offers first class benefits. And I think you love your status, but once you have, you know, and that the business class level, once you go to first class, wow, there is a lot that you don't want to lose. You know, it's that private check-in experience, not just the business class check-in experience with a lot of airlines. It's the that higher level of lounge with the the nicer a la-carte food and um, you know, um sushi and champagne. So hey, you know, even if I wasn't here, I would still say the same thing. And I think I have historically, so that that should check out if you were to to check the tape.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:02

Yeah. And I'm sure there's many people listening to this like, that sounds pretty amazing. Good luck, lucky for you that are in that position. So I'm I'm not otherwise typically flying business. It's certainly not first class. And um, I see huge value even just uh, you know, I think most uh mileage programs are most like at least if you get to like a 50k status, there's enough benefits. So one thing I would just say to all of our listeners that even if they're not able to get to the upper echelon, there's always a point in a program that is the minimum you want to earn every year so that you get access to at least the priority check-in and and essential benefits.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

Such a great point. You know, I think you know, for for my partner, you know, flying home with our kids from Los Angeles, has Ruby with One World, which is our kind of, you know, it's our first elite tier, and it's a really reasonable threshold to get to. You do not need to be an uber frequent traveler or a high spender to get there. And she was able to use the business class check-in and save about you know a significant amount of time on the check-in process. Um, and that when you have two young kids is really helpful. Uh and so I think there there's something for everybody within status. It's it's about finding what's right for you, finding what you value, and then and then finding a way to get there. And you know, it's my job to make sure that uh and and Roger, my boss, and all of us at One World, it's it's our job to make sure that it's a compelling enough proposition to deserve your travel.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

Well, I really appreciate making the time for this. I've certainly thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. It was great to meet you last week and terrific to follow up now and have this opportunity to record together. I really appreciate being part of our loyalty series, and I want to make sure that all of our listeners can follow up with you, Gilbert, directly or know where to get more information about One World. So, what would be the best way for our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Yeah, Dan, it's an honor. Thank you for having me. Umneworld.com is a great place for information. Of course, keep up with our member programs uh if you have a relationship with them. If not, join one and you know, hope to see you in the skies. I'm there often, so if we see each other, please do say hello. Uh, it's really nice to meet people. And I believe in the data point of one. I really like hearing people's feedback. Even if it's a one-person feedback, it's often very indicative of what we need to be doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

Well, for all those people, Gilbert Ott is on LinkedIn. So Gilbert or Gibb, as you may be able to reach out to him, as at least that's one of his friends call him. Um and Ott is OTT. If you're uh looking at our show notes or just trying to type his name in to connect with him. But Gilbert, thank you again. I look forward to keeping in touch and seeing you in London over the course of the year.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Thanks, Dan. And fun fact, I learned that OTT in the UK means over the top. So for anyone who doesn't know that, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Great to speak to you. And thanks to all of our listeners for joining us for episode two of our loyalty series. I really hope you enjoyed today's conversation with Gilbert Ott, the director of loyalty over at One World. And as you heard me mention at the beginning, this series is kindly sponsored by our friends over at Loyalty Status Co., who are an award-winning technology company helping travel loyalty programs drive customer acquisition, growth, and ancillary revenue through their elite status programs. You can find out more information at statusmatch.com and loyaltystatus.com. Now, next week's episode, I'm going to keep it a bit of a surprise. I alluded to the fact that we're going to be entering into the accommodation space. And so make sure you are registered on the streaming platform to be notified when new episodes go live. And of course, we do post clips and highlights of all of our interviews on our social channels so you can see clips from our conversation with Gilbert on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube. So definitely check that out. And don't forget to subscribe to our monthly newsletter that you can find at traveltrendspodcast.com. Thanks again for joining us. And until next week, save travels.