Travel Trends with Dan Christian
Welcome to our Travel Trends Podcast, the #1 B2B global travel podcast for professionals shaping the future of travel.
Hosted by Dan Christian, this show features candid conversations with global travel leaders, startup founders, tourism boards, hospitality executives, and technology innovators. Together they explore the ideas, innovations, and strategies driving the next era of travel.
Whether you're building a travel startup, leading a destination, scaling a hospitality brand, or new to the industry, you’ll gain actionable insights and real-world perspectives from the leaders redefining the global travel economy.
Travel Trends with Dan Christian
How the Best Experience Operators Are Winning More Bookings with TripWorks
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A lot of conversations about travel stay focused on the booking process, but the real opportunity begins once travelers arrive. What experiences do they choose? How do they discover them? And how is technology changing the way those bookings happen?
In the second episode of our In-Destination Experiences Series, Dan sits down with Aaron Fessler, Founder and CEO of TripWorks. Drawing on his background in enterprise technology and as the founder of the popular Las Vegas attraction Speed Vegas, Aaron shares a unique perspective on where the tours, activities, and attractions industry is headed.
Together, they explore the consumer trends shaping travel in 2026, from the growing demand for personalized experiences and flexible booking options to why more travelers are planning their activities before they even leave home. Aaron explains why operators need to think beyond simply managing bookings and instead focus on growing revenue through better customer journeys, smarter marketing, and direct bookings.
The conversation also takes a deep dive into distribution, the evolving role of OTAs, and why striking the right balance between third-party channels and direct sales has never been more important. Looking ahead, Dan and Aaron discuss how AI-powered discovery, chat-based trip planning, and agentic commerce could fundamentally reshape how travelers find, book, and experience activities in the years ahead.
Thanks to Pernod Ricard for sponsoring this series!
👉 Listen to How the Best Experience Operators Are Winning More Bookings Now
🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 7 Title Sponsors for their Support: Bokun, Civitatis, Intrepid, Kaptio, Propellic and Protect Group
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Welcome And Series Context
SPEAKER_02Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast, an episode two of our In Destination series, sponsored by our good friends over at Prono Ricard. And you heard last week we finally had Fever on the podcast, which I was thrilled about with having Roccio join us. Not only because I'm a huge fan of Fever, and obviously the backstory is incredibly impressive, but just when you look at the partnerships across the industry and how the travel experiences are really changing by virtue of companies like Fever, I thought it was a perfect timing to have them part of the conversation after three series that we've done on InDestination Experiences, which has clearly been one of our most popular, if not our most popular series. We also rivaled it a little bit this season with the Agentic AI series, and we're just at the process of shaping up season eight that I'm going to share a survey with all of our listeners so we can start making plans for season eight. But the reason that we wanted to have the conversation now on in-destination experiences and bring in our guests today is because it is July. So we have just uh had our Canada Day and our 4th of July for our friends in the US, like Aaron. And so this is the time of the year where everyone's traveling, and we wanted to have a conversation around what consumer trends are looking like for European summer 2026 travel, North American travel, and where in-destination experiences are headed in 2026 and beyond. So just before we do kick off, I just wanted to acknowledge our friends over at Purno Ricard for kindly sponsoring this series. They, of course, operate their Purno Ricard brand homes where brands come to life through their immersive world-class experiences from iconic distilleries to innovative visitor centers, PR, Perno Ricard's brand homes, explore how destinations are shaping the future of experiential hospitality and engaging travelers once they arrive. You can learn more about Purno Ricard brand homes and their global portfolio of experiences by visiting Perno-Recard.com. So thanks again to Laura and the team. And now let's turn our attention to TripWorks and the founder and CEO, Aaron Fessler. Welcome, Aaron. Thanks so much for joining us on Travel Trends. Thank you, Dan. Good to be here today. And I'm very keen to have you
Aaron’s Tech Roots In Travel
SPEAKER_02on this series and part of this conversation because you also focus on a very important part of this sector, which is travel technology. And I know it's a big passion of yours, being uh someone that's steeped in technology from having sold a large technology company many years ago. So I want to actually start with your background, if you wouldn't mind, Aaron, before we you launched Tripworks, to tell us a little bit about your background in technology and of course share with our listeners where you're base as well. That's great.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Yes, a brief uh bit on my background. I've spent most of my uh career at the intersection of technology, enterprise, and uh tour travel. Um so I've uh spent most of my career building enterprise technology systems for movie studios, record labels, uh, Fortune uh 500, Fortune 1000 companies. But ultimately later in my career, I decided to pursue my passion of uh of uh automotive, uh love cars, and ended up building a pretty significant tourist attraction in Las Vegas called Speed Vegas. And so it was interesting. I was able to take a lot of my uh background and lessons we learned about building and solving problems for business and applying that to this particular burger.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. And so I know you had a um a fairly significant exit fairly early in your career. And um and then obviously you had not only the passion for cars, but also tourism because uh Las Vegas being such a a hub in North America and globally for really innovative travel experiences. Tell us a little bit more about Speed Vegas, because I was really intrigued by that. I know you had like a hundred-acre motorsports and and as I mentioned, experiential. You're onto that early because that was you know, you started that back in 2011, so long before the pandemic. Um, but tell us a little bit more about the exotic car experiences and what you built there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, big part of my life. I'm not even sure how to summarize that quickly. I'll say that one of the things that attracted me to a tour and travel is making happy people happier. Uh and by that I mean you can spend your career typing on a laptop, solving interesting technology problems, but nothing really takes the place of the of the thrill that you get, making person after person after person uh happy. Today is the day they look forward to. They've they've they've hoped to do the thing that you're offering, whether it's uh cars in my case, or boats or wakeboarding or helicopter tours, and that's something I really enjoy about this particular space. Um so I got involved in after I sold a technology company, decided to engage my passion, and uh ultimately ended up as you as you uh uh have uh highlighted here, acquiring about a hundred acres of property on the strip in Las Vegas, and we decided to build something world-class. And I love how you kind of highlighted this idea of making it experiential. That really was important for me in the early days. Uh, there was uh similar attraction in the marketplace, and frankly, they had porta potties and cones and a pretty basic experience. It was extremely successful. And to me, I thought, wow, if you could really uh bring a level of fit and finish and polish to the customer experience, I think you do quite well. And it is, it's one of the top uh activities uh in Las Vegas. It's uh grown extraordinarily well. About a quarter of a million people show up uh each year to that attraction. And for the listeners, uh while I'm I'm no longer there, I've since exited that business, I'd encourage you to go. If you've ever seen uh, you know, car magazine, uh motor trend, or car and driver, and you thought, wow, that's that's that's an amazing red Ferrari. I would like to not just see it, but try it. Speed Vegas was designed just for you. It's not a school, it's not you don't necessarily learn something, it's just a place for you to uh live out that childhood dream of driving a car fast. Um Ferraris, Lamborghinis, all that's a really, really great experience.
SPEAKER_02Well, uh note taken because I'm in Vegas a few times a year, I'm likely gonna be there again next month for Virtuoso's conference, and I will definitely take you up on um that suggestion because I uh I'm not a car efficient auto like you, but I for me it's about having had the experience. So the fact that you can drive these exotic supercars, and I'm sure my son will want to join me. But the other thing I was gonna say too, Aaron, about your background. I know a lot of entrepreneurs that have had early success, and there's that expression that lightning doesn't often strike twice. Um in your case, obviously it struck a few times, not only with um um speed works, but also with tripworks. And so I would love to get the backstory on that because I know we've met a couple of times, but as we were saying, just as we kicked off, um, you know, it's one thing to briefly meet at a conference, but obviously this is the opportunity uh for us to actually get to know each other and also our listeners to get to know Tripworks in your backstory. And the thing I have to ask you about first off, because I didn't have a chance to make this connection when we met in person at the arrival conference, was the timing of TripWorks being April 2020. And as I was preparing for our conversation, I was like, there's something that actually happened about a month before that that was fairly significant globally. So you uh you probably had a chance to grow some of this in hibernation over the first 12
Speed Vegas And Experience Design
SPEAKER_02to 18 months. Um but tell us a little bit about the backstory about why you created a tripworks, and then uh obviously please comment on the timing.
SPEAKER_00Right. I wasn't sure where you were going with that because from your perspective, it may look like lightning strikes uh more than once. But um frankly, uh I would love to meet an a successful entrepreneur that's found the path straight and easy and and carefree. If there is a way, I have not found the way. And it wasn't just TripWorks, and I'll I'll talk about the timing here, but even Speed Vegas uh was a great example of that. Uh and in a prior business, uh we we decided to get involved in a uh you know uh an exotic car uh club in uh outside of New York, and we launched that in 2018. I don't know if you've read the newspapers, but 2018 was not a great time to be launching a uh high-end luxury, expensive experience in New York. And so, yeah, um I like to think that building and operating a business is like going to the gym. If you're doing it right, which I don't often go, but if you're doing it right, it always hurts. And for me, that's been my byline for most of the things. While it might look easy, it's always hard. It's always blood, sweat, and tears. And you're right, Tripworks was no different. We um after Speed Vegas uh really saw the idea and the vision behind what it is today and began to put pen to paper shortly before the pandemic. And it's no exaggeration to say that we uh brought it to market in February or March of 2020. The timing could not have been more spectacular. But uh to our team's credit, I think at the time, what we ultimately concluded, and I I maybe you can tap in today to the emotion that you may have felt during that period, it was certainly dark, and people felt like the world had changed and things are different now, and who knows what the future might look like and as uh civilization as we know it over. I think after a brief moment, what we realized was I don't think the human condition had changed as a result of COVID. I think fundamentally we're humans and we want to taste and touch and see and do. We want to get our feet wet, we want to see the mountain. And so, unless you believe that humanity was over, which I didn't in 2020, you really forced yourself then to think of COVID as a time-bound problem. Now, whether that would be a problem for a week or a month or a year, I certainly couldn't take. But pretty quickly we realized, no, there will be a future where we're on the other side of that. And so then what that led to was a really strong message to our customers and prospects. We said, all right, you're a really busy uh tour operator or attraction, right? And you're doing nothing now. You're sitting at home because of COVID. And so you've got a choice. You can either spend this time right now fixing all the things about your business that you've never had the time to think about infrastructure, marketing stack, technology, booking systems, all those sorts of things in anticipation of the day when the sun will come out, or you can sit at home and do Netflix. It's up to you. And frankly, that message really resonated well. So surprisingly, we we really left COVID with a very, very strong base, new customers that had spent the time during the shutdown implementing really great uh uh improvements in their business. That said, I'm glad it's over. It was tough for everybody in our industry, and uh it's it's nice to be past it.
SPEAKER_02I couldn't agree more. And obviously, our listeners know that the genesis uh of our podcast was very much connected to that challenging time. And you know, when we started this three years ago, the whole idea was to understand how traveler behavior had changed post-COVID, because just like you, I was standing in my office. I was in the U.S. at the time in California, standing looking out my window after having read an article about the fact it was going to take travel 10 years to come back to 2019 levels. And we all know that really it actually only took two or three years, and we've seen numbers even higher than 2019. And so for all of us that were remained optimistic, like yourself, that business would come back, it would likely be different. But the fact is, people would love uh nothing more than to be able to travel freely again post-pandemic, and we had that revenge travel, which I know the term I never particularly like because I think what we've seen is that travel has continued to be resilient. And so on the topic of starting trip works, not only in the timing, but also just the fact that you had the experience with Speed Vegas, you understood the tourism industry, you have a background in technology. Why did you decide to create TripWorks and enter the tours and activities space? I know it's you know, it's uh we always talk uh at an arrival conference about how fragmented the industry is. Uh, obviously there was a couple of uh larger players and still are in this space. Um, but I see it as still a business that's been ripe for continued innovation. And I remember seeing some of your team members showcasing your technology and highlighting why Tripworks over other solutions that are out there in the marketplace today. And I do want to get into that because it's one of the things I always find so fascinating about business strategy is competitive advantages and some of the things you've done that is really unique in the sector. But before we get into that, Aaron, tell us a little bit more about why you decided to get into this specific industry. Did you just see a big opportunity from the outside looking in that this you know we were lagging behind and that you had the right technology or the right kind of way of solving this? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_00So the the the the I I don't know that I got into it at at any early days intentionally. And I'll kind of give you the lineage that predates um Dripworks. It really uh traces its roots back to Speed Vegas. At Speed Vegas, um, you know, this is now 2011, 12, 13, when we began to think a bit about this, the landscape for technology was dramatically different than it is today. We um um had a few players that were a year or two in their journey, but in our particular case, it wasn't much of a problem. I had a really strong technology background, and so naturally we built all the things that we needed in-house to power Speed Vegas. Um, and so that we that's why we ended up there. At that time, there really weren't the level of systems that you're gonna find commercially available today. Now, as it turns out, it was a bit of a blessing in disguise because we um when we when we really started the attraction, like many new attractions, we we had theories and strong ideas about how that business would be successful. Um, but we sprayed resources in every direction. We spent money on taxi tops in Las Vegas and billboards and radio ads and uh certainly OTA channels, offline partners, uh casino hosts, paid advertising, PR, really everything, right? And I remember uh very strongly meeting with uh the team that we had running our paid ads because my view was that was probably gonna be something that was gonna power success. And I it became pretty clear that in the end, they suffered of uh with a lack of systems and technology to help us meaningly figure out if that channel was gonna do well for us. I think our budget was about 10,000 bucks a month for paid ads. And uh after a few months, we decided, look, this is an area we're really gonna double down. And so a lot of the things that ultimately made their way into Tripworks started from that particular problem. And once we got highly confident that we could track every dollar spent to acquire a customer and its result in the business, then it became a matter of just pouring gas on it. In the case of paid advertising, we went from spending $10,000 a month, thanks to our ability to use technology to track the outcome, to $15,000 a month, $20,000 a month, $50,000 a month, $100,000 a month, approaching nearly half a million dollars a month in paid ads alone. Now, I tell you all that because that's a story that inspires a lot of operators. They find that they really just they they feel like they should be doing a lot of these uh activities to grow the business, but without a really, really amazing technology platform, it's difficult to see if it's working. So I think that was uh that was a thing that really helped power the business success when it exited that became the heart and the DNA behind TripWorks. So I think that's probably one of the areas where that that we generally tend to do particularly well. We connect well with attractions that are ultimately trying to grow and scale their business. Now it's not everybody. What I have found the hard
Building TripWorks During COVID
SPEAKER_00way is that there are lots of very successful operators that are passion-led. That's a guy that lives in San Diego on the beach, and if he's got uh you know enough uh revenue to cover his rent and share his passion with some friends, he's happy. There's no reason not to run your life that way. And for him, there are lots of ways to you know get products on the market that satisfy that need, where we tend to do well for those growth-oriented customers. So that's probably one of the areas that that we really focused and have done well on. Um when you talk about the landscape, I think one of the things that I learned quickly is that our industry is highly fragmented, not just on the on the on the customer side, but on the technology side. The needs of someone to operate uh the Empire State Building are dramatically different than a you know a paddle board operator in Florida or something like that. And so we sit in a corner of that ecosystem. And for those that that that um have needs that we can solve well, we do really, really well. But there's a room for a lot of technology providers in our space.
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SPEAKER_02And now, back to the show. One of the things that really stood out to me, Aaron, the last couple of years, because I think it's going back three or four years ago when we actually were first introduced, and I'd seen you take a substantial booth at the uh arrival conference in San Diego. That was one of the first times I'd seen Tripworks. And since then, I continue to uh encounter more businesses that are using TripWorks as their platform. Even as I've looked to book experiences uh myself in Destination, I was like, oh, it's powered by TripWorks. And so I've seen your continued growth and success. Now it's one of the key reasons I wanted to have you part of this uh series that we're doing, is because obviously I want to get your uh business insights so that our listeners can certainly uh learn from uh not only what you've accomplished and also continue to scale this business, but also the types of experiences that you're uh focusing on. So let's maybe dive into that for a moment because you've mentioned some of these individual operators, which is obviously part of the challenge of our industry and how fragmented it is. And I know you have everything from venues like axe throwing, and just to give our listeners a bit of an overview, I mean, you've got adventure activities, entertainment venues, which really connects to the fever uh episode we did last week. You work with a lot of tour operators, which, as our listeners know, is a big part of my background and a category I remain very bullish on. But you do things like educational classes, uh attractions, and so quite a wide variety. Um, but one of the things I wanted to specifically ask you, only because I kept hearing it coming up in conversation, is that companies were choosing TripWorks, not necessarily just as their first option, but they were with an existing provider and they were switching over to TripWorks. And I know that to me, at least Aaron from the outside looking in, has been one of the ways that your business has grown and become successful, is that other other uh operators who have been either kind of disenchanted with uh the platform they're currently on or are looking for an alternative. And again, anecdotally from conversations I've overheard and from people that have chosen to partner with you, pricing is obviously one uh big advantage. And I know you do offer like a zero platform fee, so it's you know, there's a booking fee, but obviously I'd I'd love for you to speak to this. And also the other thing is the technology itself, some of the functionality, whether it be the maps or calendars, um, really uh rivals a lot of your competitors. And so when people look at actually, I've got better technology and lower pricing, this makes a pretty easy decision for me. So again, that's my perception from the outside looking in. Tell us a little bit more strategically how you've approached these industries and what you see as your competitive advantages.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um that was a I jotted a note because it's a great question, a compound question. You touched on a couple of themes. First is uh switching. So I would say one observation that I've uh made over the last uh maybe I don't know, five or seven years is that if you were to go back ten years ago, the the the message for a technology provided in the space was dramatically different than it is today. And I'm not talking not about AI, that's a whole thing. Ten years ago, far more people, particularly in North America, but really across all markets, were operating in pen and paper and doing just a fine job. And so entrants in that space, um, their core message was we're gonna help you modernize your system and get off pen and paper, right? And that really resonated well. The products at the time were very focused on organizing physical reality, right? So your physical reality is you have three canoes and you go out today, or you have ten jet skis or helicopters, whatever it might be. Those days are largely behind us, right? It's against market by market, but certainly Europe, uh, Australia, North America, um, it's not common to find a significant operator that's still operating in pen and paper. So that message is generally gone. But what that means is the the platforms that were birthed during that era, their focus was fundamentally on organizing physical reality. That what does that mean? That means calendars, manifests, finding out if your people today are vegan or have certain preferences when they arrive and their height and their weight and things like that. So the products were really um um product delivery or service delivery focused. That was the value they offered. That's really kind of gone away today. That's table stakes. Every every operator, well, not every, but a large percentage of operators today, and this is pretty well borne out in a lot of the work that um Douglas Quinby at Arrival and the rest of the folks over there have done bear out this notion that people are using a stack today. We arrived somewhere near the end of that. And so by the time we showed up uh, you know, around uh 2021, something like that, the message was significantly different. At that point, I think we really spoke to some new trends that were occurring. One, um, people were really interested. Now, I described a moment ago about how that was a big passion of us at Speed Vegas, and our focus on growth was quite successful. So operators that are saying, like, yeah, I've got calendars, I've got manifests, but are you really helping me grow and scale my business? That really uh did quite well. Second, I think, you know, there's a renewed focus on usability. Uh, you know, third, enabling the customer experience. And I can talk at great teeth about what that means, but there's just a lot of new trends that have arrived over the last couple of years that we've been to address. Now the question remains, all right, well, why can't the people who have been here for a long time, who arguably have a lot of experience and a lot of momentum and mass roll forward? And the way I like to describe it is, Dan, let's say you and I,
Tracking Growth From Ads To ROI
SPEAKER_00you know, we decided to go into business together, right? We see a problem, we want to start the problem together. You and I would go in a corner with our laptops and we create the product, we would bring it to market, and we would create a minimum pro viable product and we'd find someone to use it. And what would happen is that first customer almost certainly would come back and say, Dan, Aaron, you did a great job. We love what you've done here. However, um, you know, you you're a little off. Imagine, Dan, it's it's sort of like Visual Act to use is it's a it's putting a rail track down or a train track down. All right, and we you and I lay that train track down that represents our product vision. The feedback that we're gonna get back is gonna say, Dan, you you need to move the train tracks a bit to the left. You kind of missed the mark here. Your product would be a lot more interesting to me if you did this instead of this. And you and I would take go back to our laptops and we would rip up the train tracks and we'd move them and we would repeat that. That's not so hard to do when you have one train running on the track or no trains at all. But when you reach a point where you have um, to switch analogies now, 5,000 operators or 15,000 operators or 50,000 operators using your system, change structurally becomes practically impossible. It's not uh, it's not through a lack of willpower, it's not because you can't see the needs, you're not hearing the needs, but you and I, frankly, would have the same problem with ours. If we got to the point where we were quite successful, at that point, adapting to the realities of the changing market becomes structurally, exceptionally difficult. So I my two sense is that's where a lot of the incumbent operators find themselves today. We have entered an era of change that I haven't seen since 2000 that is stunning. And we'll talk about that later in the in the podcast. But if you've got cement boots on or use whatever analogy you like, it becomes exceptionally difficult to uh innovate today. So I think that's why we're finding the success that we are. Uh, we are at a point where we are able to move rapidly, we are able to be responsive, we are able to uh adapt to the demands uh of the new operator, of the new uh customers who are looking for experience, looking for different communication styles, all the things are looking for. And that's that's I think one of the biggest reasons we've done with the same thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I appreciate you sharing those insights because one of the things I do want to talk about is in terms of where you're headed is the multi-day tours. I mean, the multi-day tour for me is probably one of those best examples of the technology um cement boots that you just described, because a number of established channel managers and also distribution partners that were optimized around day tours really struggle to uh expand, to pivot, to incorporate multi-day tours, despite how big that sector is, currency being one challenge, how prices are loaded. And so there's many factors that have prevented them to this day of being able to successfully move into multi-day. And as you've seen, Arrival has actually started to really embrace multi-day and bring in more multi-day operators, but the technology absolutely still lags behind. Um, but let's talk about some of the uh consumer trends and some of the experiences that you offer. And I think that would be really interesting for our listeners uh to understand. And maybe let's start with the fact that you know we are, you know, just coming towards the end of the World Cup, um, depending on when people are listening to this. I don't want to timestamp it too much, but at least, you know, with uh let's say July and August summer travel for the Northern Hemisphere. I would love to hear what you're seeing as far as the consumer booking activity. What are some of the trends that are standing out to you in terms of what people are booking, where people are choosing to travel? And obviously, I know your business, you're based in the US and you have a lot of American-based partners. Are you seeing more of an increase in domestic travel this year, given some of the geopolitical challenges? But yeah, give us a bit of an overview of how you're seeing uh summer 2026 in-destination experiences.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, another great compound question. I find myself right now. Yes, excellent questions, and I find myself wanting to comment on portions of that. Yeah, so I'll break this down, your your question to perhaps two halves. The first is what what are we seeing? What are the trends out there? What's what what uh what are consumers looking for? And then second, um, maybe more specifically, North America, how are its sort of geopolitical factors affecting uh travel here domestically? What are we seeing? On the former, yeah, I would say um absolutely, we're seeing the shift away from cookie-cutter, rigid day tours. I saw some uh Expedia data the other day. It said something like 71% of all travelers are looking for uh activity and tour providers to give them something that's highly personalized, uh, lots of recommendations compared to even just a year or two ago. And so a lot of operators are moving uh to support toward things like flex time booking. I don't particularly care what time today you come, as long as you come, modular options, upgrades, add-ons, uh, you know, those sorts of things, but allowing a guest to build their own adventure is something that's pretty significant. Second, how they're buying, that that continues to evolve and shift, right? So we're seeing OTAs uh continue to uh pick up considerable weight in the marketplace. I don't see that trend reversing. Um I, you know, we're really passionate about helping operators manage uh the percent of traffic that goes to OTAs for commission reasons. But the truth of the matter is OTAs continue to pick up steam and cannibalize other parts of the marketplace. And third is where customers are shopping. Uh it it while OTAs are a part of it. Um anyone who has kids, ask your kid how they're consuming information or even you look at your own uh usage patterns. But chat is a really, really part of helping people orient themselves. I'm personally, as you've heard me talk about this at arrival, really optimistic about that third. Uh and uh stop me if you want to carry this for another question, but let me tell you why I'm so excited about this. I, you know, like everybody, have a Yelp account. Uh, I've got a TripAdvisor account, and I've got whatever. Uh I'll go to Expedia and search for hotels when I'm traveling. The problem with that is if I type in hotels in my market, I I have no confidence that Priceline or Expedia or whoever knows me, right? And so I have no belief that the recommendations that I get back today reflect my uh budget, my pricing preferences, my travel habits, all those sorts of things. And so, you know, it's a marketplace. Whoever bids at the top gets the best placement. And I, as a sophisticated buyer, am aware of that. I think it's a dramatic opportunity, not just for OTAs and for travel partners, but for tourist attractions too. And I'm really excited about technology at some point, safely being able to get to the point where I can get really, really customized the specific recommendations about what I want. My phone is loaded with everything about me. What I like to do, where I like to go, you know, colors of rooms that I like. And so if I can find a way to make it that you and I are sitting in a bench and we decide, hey, what's there to do? And it'll say, across the street, Dan, uh at 3 p.m. today is a whiskey tasting. I know you love whiskey tasting. Click here to buy the tickets. I think that kind of an outcome is really exciting. So I think I think that's the direction that that that a lot of buyers are looking for.
SPEAKER_02Well, one specific one, I we I'm gonna uh hit you now with a series of trend questions that I think will be really interesting to our listeners, especially given the the data that you have and the perspective uh given you working with so many different providers and powering their um their booking solution. And and just to highlight to our listeners, one of the things that's important about that is that you know when you work with a company like Tripworks, and for those of you who are multitasking as we're having this conversation, it's Tripworks.com. And uh I highlight that because as you are you know looking at their solution and just understanding this industry, one of the things that's really important to know as an operator is first of all, obviously you need to choose the right technology stack and the right partner to be able to power your reservation system and to be able to take bookings. Um, but the second part of that is distribution, um, which is as important to make sure that your tours are available to be booked on any of the platforms that people might uh want to discover you on. So um I'm gonna come to that in a minute with Aaron, but just I thought I'd highlight that as it relates to the consumer trends and what you're seeing, whether it's booking direct, booking through intermediaries, um, and also how far things uh travelers book ahead. So one thing I just wanted to comment on and and ask you to share, if you wouldn't mind, is that you know you mentioned Douglas Quinn Bee, who is uh a great friend and colleague, obviously, to us both. I believe he's one of your advisors. He's like, and he is you know a terrific individual. I mean, can think more highly of Douglas and I always sit in front.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if he's listening. I hope that he's not, but I'll take that chance to say yes. He's a really, really tremendous um resource in our industry. Deeply respect the work he's done, his passion, his leadership. Uh really interesting guy.
SPEAKER_02For sure. And I you know, highlight that for those of you who know Douglas. Obviously, that's gonna but those of you who don't, just gravitating to what he shares. I always sit in the front row whenever he's kicking off a conference and sharing the data. One of the things he recently did, Aaron, when we were in uh uh Sevilla in um in Spain a couple of months ago at the Focus Rate Europe conference is he highlighted of arrival and what it looked like 10 years ago in terms of people booking in advance compared to
Why Operators Switch Booking Platforms
SPEAKER_02today. And it's one of the big shifts that now you know 60% of people are actually booking their in-destination experiences in advance. Um whereas it was like 80% were just booking them in destination before to talk about being fragmented and people just getting to a destination and deciding what they were going to do. Whereas now people are, as you pointed out, reading Yelp reviews, they're they're they're doing their homework, they're trying to figure out what they're gonna do in destination, they're booking in advance. So, my direct question to you on this um is that if roughly half of all tour and activities happen um um that if you still have about uh 40% people booking in destination, um, what are you seeing from your experience working with providers? Are many of those people still, you know, that 40% um that are booking in destination? Um, are they booking you know within three days or next day? And then do those numbers that arrival has shared track with you as far as people booking before travel?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. The compression is is is undeniable. Uh and it's been slowly trending that direction for a couple of years. Um again, getting back to Speed Vegas, I remember that we identified in the early days that um locking the consumer down before they get to market was a really, really critical uh skill to nail down. The reason is because if you're sitting at home exploring uh opportunities out of market, so you're not yet in your market, um you know, the the supplier, uh uh in this case the chore operator has a real opportunity to tell his story well in a rich and a creative way, you know, visuals and videos and those sorts of things, um, you know, measured and and uh with lots of detail. Um that opportunity goes away once they're in market. They're often sitting somewhere on their phone. And so, you know, the the way that you communicate them, the media uh and the medium has to change. Number two, the economics are significantly different. I think we've concluded uh over the last year or so that uh on average for our industry, uh, the average spend per visitor now who's buying in market versus out of market is about 15% to the negative. So uh if I can convince you to buy my product before you get to market, I'll get 115 bucks out of you. If I can convince you to buy my product when you're in market, I'll only get 100. And there are lots of reasons behind that to often buy um larger activities or larger uh you know, bundle offerings or add-ons or upgrades where they might not do in-market. Um, number two is um, you know, the the volume, the third, not just the size drop, but the volume drops. And it's because once you get to market, you're not competing with a lot of really aggressive other retailers through other mediums, again, taxi tops, billboards, those sorts of things. So you're fighting much more aggressively for the in-market traveler. So for us, I think our passion has been helping operators figure out how to solve that message as well as possible, as far upstream as possible. And we do that, and that that's really kind of uh one of our big differences rates to our abandoned cart flows, which on the face don't sound uh particularly novel or interesting, but I'm here to tell you that the difference between doing that thing well and doing it not well is a game changer. It's a huge, huge key to success at at Speed Vegas. We um dramatically drove our top line by engaging uh tools to help uh get those dollars before people got to market. So, yeah, that trend change uh is continuing. I don't think it's gonna change. I think smart operators should not throw in the towel on it. You really need to fight as hard as possible to get those dollars while they're out of market.
SPEAKER_02Now let's talk about what trips they're booking because one of the things that stood out to me is your educational uh options. Now, something that clearly anyone listening to this knows that we you know we've moved from the experience economy into this transformation economy. Obviously, you know the story with Joe Pine as well. And one of the things that, you know, I'm telling every listener something they already know if we think about consumers prioritizing experiences over material possessions. But what I find fascinating is like what they're actually choosing and how that continues to evolve. So one of the categories that has seen significant growth is, and obviously you know this as well, is culinary. And I know arrival started to really focus on that food tours. I mean, when I'm at the arrival conference, every second person I speak to now runs food tours and meaningful uh size businesses as well, as I would highlight too, right? Yes. Um, and so that's an area that is continuing to really grow and scale. I would love to know from your vantage point, since you ever offer everything from hot air balloon rides to you know axe throwing. So obviously you have those um experiences in destination, but you also you know work with tour operators. Where are you seeing the um consumer, where are you seeing consumers start to prioritize experiences? Or what what are what is breaking new ground? What is particularly interesting or telling for you?
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah, look, I think that there is always some churn at the top of the market, um, and there is an anchor at the bottom. And structurally, I think, you know, again, we're humans, right? And so humans just tend to want to do things when it's warm out. And so we do find that warmer clients continue to do well, and I don't think that's gonna change much at all. Second, is um water tends to be a big unifier. Uh, I think people hu humans just want water. And so it's boats, it's it's jet skis, it's it's um, it is um uh you know uh paddle boarding, uh kite surfing, uh, um whale watching, all those types of activities continue, right? So that's really not changing. What is changing uh is is uh a family of activities on the top. You've highlighted a few, such as uh food tours, yes, that's a big, big driver in Europe. It's it's it's a pretty big uh driver. We're seeing it uh in other major North America markets. Um obviously New York is big, Miami's big, um, Las Vegas is significant. We're seeing some variations of that. Uh intersection of uh bus and food is interesting, uh like uh tea on the strip is uh one that's uh taken across a couple of markets. Uh we are seeing uh decline in in some segments that were fast a few years ago. Axe throwing, you've mentioned that a few times is a good example of that. Um one has not held up well. I think there was a lot of initial enthusiasm around that, but not one that we've seen has uh or will likely stand the test of time. Um couple to keep your eye on. Uh uh I don't know, have you been to Meow Wolf? Of course. I love Meow Wolf and I've had uh the founders on the show. Yeah, huge fan. Uh yeah. Um I don't if someone hasn't been to it, I don't even attempt to describe or explain it. Um it's really something to watch. It's really remarkable. So yeah, it's it uh the the market does continue to evolve, stable at the bottom, lots of water uh and physical uh activities, experiential things are are like experiencing uh, you know, uh helicopter rides around the Statue of Liberty, those sorts of things are unchanged. And at the top, yeah, there's some movement for sure. That'll continue.
SPEAKER_02And then as it relates to uh the platforms and distribution, that's uh so I obviously want to talk a little bit about multi-day, but I also specifically want to talk about distribution, since that is so important for every uh operator that's looking to scale and grow. And one specific thing before we get into OTAs and different distribution partners is one of the big topics that we're gonna be continuing to focus on is season eight is social commerce and marketing. And so many operators, not only do they need to make sure they're bookable, but they need to get the word out. And many of them, a smaller operator utilizing social channels, and we know how important those are, especially reaching younger generation when it comes to TikTok and short form video. And so when it comes to driving direct bookings first, Aaron, uh, how important do you see social media? And is there any one thing I'm not aware of with your platform? And obviously you can educate me and our audience on this, um, is being able to provide direct booking links if people are viewing the content on social platforms to be able to instantly book that experience they've just seen that looks so amazing for everyone else that was just enjoying themselves.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, huge. So let me kind of set up my view on uh distribution. Um, I think a fear that a lot of operators have is that uh more distribution means losing margin, right? I I think that can be true. Uh I cringe when I hear operators that have significant portions of their revenue driven by OTAs. Uh and I'm talking, I hear operators that are 60, 70, 80, 90 percent. Um again, this is I'm not anti-OTA, but you know, the structure here is that an OTA will commonly uh strip the uh brand from the from from the from finding a little bit of the consumer. And so the consumer has no idea who they're buying from. I actually bristle with the uh against the use of the phrase supplier. I think it's a little insulting as someone who's built a significant tourist attraction. You put blood, sweat, and tears into your identity and your branding, and to see that completely stripped at the one-yard line is very, very painful. Um so um I'm sympathetic to operators uh that are in that position. Um relying heavily on one OTA, you're handing the keys to your business. The moment there's a better option, you're out and they're in. So uh I think a more moderate view is is as having them fit a small piece. It's not either or, but it's a small piece. Uh, you know, I uh uh get excited uh when I find a mix of in the teens. Uh I think that's reasonable, and a strategic use of OTAs for distribution. So maybe you can't fill last-minute inventory or
Summer 2026 Trends And Personalization
SPEAKER_00there's certain um, you know, uh uh days of the week or things like that that that you you struggle to deliver uh directly. I think that can be a piece of it. I think OTAs can be a really great billboard uh to capture that first-time traveler. Uh and then if you're able to use your internal platform to turn the direct bookers, that's a big win. Now, how do you do that? Um you you if you watch carefully, you'll often find that that a new traveler will uh first look on OTAs to see what's out there. And then there usually is an opportunity to uh uh to connect with that traveler directly, but making sure that you've you've done so in a compelling way that gives them a distinct advantage to buy directly from you is really up to you. So that's that's pretty important. Um what was the other half of your question? I I I I in fact I missed the half of your question, but I wanted to make some points about I do think operators need to be careful about too much OTA. I think OTs have value for uh helping uh retail and and and market your business, but needs to be done carefully with balance. We'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_02And now back to the show. As you highlighted with OTAs, one of the big challenges for operators that are not familiar with having to pay 30% or even higher in commission, which if it's a $100 purchase, it's very different when you're selling something that's you know $5,000. So one of the big challenges has been for operators that are selling multi-day tour to work with operators or OTAs that are used to much higher commissions on a smaller ticket size. And you know, when you look at these operators that are if they've been in existence for many years, they're used to dealing with commissions. And so they've actually built up a pretty significant B2B business. And the opportunity for them is on direct because they've realized, wait a second, I'm paying 15, 20, 25% commission. If I can get business lower to where our conversation first started, is you guys were spending more on paid media to drive more traffic directly. Obviously, you were seeing an ROI on that, and that's why you scaled. And so most companies are you know starting to do more on direct. And it's one of the things that often comes up, Aaron, in our conversations is you know, how do you manage your overall marketing strategy and distribution? And how do you make sure that you're you know set up to succeed for both B2B and B2C? So while we're having the conversation of B2B, I would love to get any additional advice from you to uh operators listening to this, because I'm sure as soon as you said that, you know, stripping the brand of the one yard line, I mean, I'm sure a lot of suppliers, to use you exactly the term that you're preferred not to, um, feel that. That way. That it's just like it's one of the challenges they have. So what would you suggest is sort of an unlock there with like what if they should be thinking about distribution, um, how they should be approaching it in a much more positive way to say we're not just going to work with any OTA, we're only going to work with OTAs that still maintain our brand and to your point, give you something that you couldn't otherwise get yourself, which is maybe selling last-minute uh spots on trips to help fill up inventory. So yeah, finish I please by sharing some additional insights on succeeding in B2B distribution.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, look, I think that that this market has had a structural problem for a long time. And this is going to turn into a you know a rival uh promo session, which isn't uh the intent. But again, I'll give Douglas a little bit of uh credit for spotting and helping identify this problem in the early days. And uh let me break this down. In the 1950s, if you wanted to buy uh an airline ticket, you'd go directly to the to the retailer uh and and you'd buy that ticket. And so ultimately that became a highly fragmented marketplace and led to the to the introduction of solutions like Sabre. Sabre is sort of the language that generally allowed you to go to Priceline and buy, irrespective of whether the act uh whether the flight was offered by United or American or whoever the airline might have been. Tremendously successful. And it got to the point where you would have high confidence, as you do today, that if you go to any particular website and you buy an airline ticket, it would even cross your mind that you have a problem when you walk up on the day at the gate, right? It's extremely mature. Consumers have grown to trust it. That uh same structure rolled forward and across other markets. Uh hospitality is the same way, exact same thing. You can go to Expedia today and you could buy a hotel and you have 100% confidence when you walk up to the front counter of the whatever inn that your booking will have been received. Uh, and it has moved a little bit into other markets, but our industry has been late. It's been last. It's it remains highly fragmented. There um has never been a particularly great way for you to have high confidence that your supply could be offered universally across lots and lots of platforms. So today, someone offering through uh Viador is one project, offering then additionally through get your guide is another and through Batch and uh, you know, it goes on and on down the line. Highly fragmented distribution has been a big, big problem. And so um, as you probably know, uh that led to the advent of something called Octo, which we remain super excited about. Octo is sort of to our industry, what Saber has been to the airline industry since the 1950s. It becomes a way for suppliers to clearly and cleanly make sure that their activities can be distributed across lots and lots of partners, uh, automatically exchanging pricing, uh, availability information, booking data, cancellation payments beautifully and clearly and seamlessly back and forth. Now, the problem is that uh our industry still has some holdouts. It would be the equivalent of our space to United Airlines saying they opt out of Saber. It's a big problem. Um, and you can see why that would create a problem for both uh operators uh and travelers. And so that is a structural problem in our industry today. I think until we see a little more adoption of that, it will remain challenging, difficult for operators to make sure that their activities are distributed. Um we do think it's a better outcome for everybody if you can get uh you know great access to all the things to do in any given market, irrespective of of who the supplier is. I think that's a better, better case for all. So I think that's one structural change. It's gotten better. Uh it is moving forward. I think we're still a couple of years out, but I do think that that is gonna uh net be a pretty big uh improvement for a lot of suppliers.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell One last question on distribution, and I'll ask this around the multi-day tour, since it's one I'm keen to uh to discuss with you is and uh from you know uh extensive experience myself, I know how important distribution partners are for multi-day because it is much more of a high-touch product and trust, which is something I also want to discuss with you, the importance of a trust in the entire booking process. Um but tell us if you wouldn't mind, Aaron, are you guys looking at expanding into multi-day? And if so, you know, how are you looking at bringing in that product and distributing it successfully?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you highlighted uh and and look, I'll probably power just did a little weird thing, but we're fine. Um I would probably, for those of you that are listening and
OTAs, Direct Bookings, And Brand Control
SPEAKER_00considering starting a uh a booking technology provider, let me just disabuse you of that motion. It is, no kidding, exceptionally difficult. And the reason is because uh the needs of an operator uh who might be axe thrawing is such uh uh dramatically different from, again, helicopter or a whale watching tour, uh, that it stretches your ability to do so reliably in a scale. And so what you tend to find is that uh booking providers like us will start and do well in one of three pockets. The first pocket are things that are single day, at two o'clock you can come do the thing. And that's an area that that we do particularly well, and others have done well. But the overlap between that and the rentals market, while they sound similar, they're structurally a lot different. The the flow at which you uh advance through a checkout process or the way at which you have exclusive use of an asset, whether it's a side-by-side or a boat, are quite a bit different. Multiday is another third one, it's a little bit different. Um you're often, you know, your checkout flows will have two date pickers. When you're starting, when you're ending. You highlighted some other challenges that are unique to multi-day, like currency. So what happens if you travel between uh a market with currency A and a market with currency B? The the challenges go on and on and on. So both of those are significant areas of growth and development for us, but it's sort of the story of our space, the fragmentation of the needs of different operators make these things uh not so easy. Uh it's it's it's uh a little a little more complicated than anyone would guess from the outside.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it sounds like you're moving in that direction since you do have a number of tour operators. Obviously, that's a core part of your business. And so um the other thing I want to switch into is just on the direct side. And so my question to you around social media in particular is just we keep hearing about the um the potential for social commerce and being able to work with influencers and drive bookings and just how and especially now as we're starting to see uh SEO wane in the face of AI search. And again, a topic I'm gonna keen to ask you about as well. I got lots I want to cover with you, Aaron, which is why you know I um end up asking compound questions because I'm trying to get, you know, I'm it's uh that's uh the beauty of the podcast format is like a long-form question leads to long-form answers, but um, but I also want to make sure we hit the highlights as well. So the one thing I wanted to specifically ask you is around direct booking activity.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02And and what you're seeing with your partners is most successful, and if and if specifically um social booking is is real and you're seeing that your clients are utilizing your platform to be able to make a direct connection between inspiration and actually leading to a transaction.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sh short answer is no. Um I'd like that to be true, but but the the the reality is uh you don't often uh uh actively curate in and search for you don't use social as a search engine. So the problem is if I'm sitting at home, it's very uncommon for me to say, you know, on a social network, I'm going to, you know, uh Paris next week and what's fun to do. That's just it it it's just not how that structurally operates. It tends to be consumptive, you're served content, and you'll flip to it. Great place for top of funnel of brand awareness, brand authority, exposure, and those sorts of things. But the dotted line between um exposure and intent is a little far. And so there are folks that that work it, have some success, but it generally tends to be better suited toward uh awareness and exposure and less toward uh direct uh commerce. Where we are seeing it though is on chat applications. That's dramatically changing rapidly. So I I would encourage you to look more closely at that. Um, that's where we're seeing seismic shifts. People are, in fact, uh using chat interfaces, chat GPT or um, you know, co-aut or whatever it might be to say, I'm going uh to Nashville this weekend, give me some top three things to do. That is absolutely the battleground. And I think you're seeing a tremendous amount of movement and direction. Earlier this year, Stripe announced something called the um agentic, I'm sorry, um it was with Stripe, but uh OpenAI announced the Agentic Commerce Protocol, which died a few months later. But the everyone is moving rapidly that direction. And the holy grail is that I can, using the power of my phone, which knows everything about me, say what's their fund to do today, and they'll say, hey, Aaron and Dan, there's a whiskey tasting across the street in three hours. Would you like to buy it now? Like that is that's probably the holy grail. And I'd say that's probably where the battleground is coming from.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's talk about uh AI in that regard then. Since clearly, you know, you just mentioned AI search results as a great way to make sure your business is optimized for where travelers are spending their time today. And you've seen those stats from Focus Right highlighting the last three quarters, you know, that it's gone from 30 to 40 to 56 percent. It's rivaling Google search now. And so um tell us a little bit more about how you're seeing agencai AI incorporated into your platform, how travelers are booking. Uh from your perspective, how is it impacting the customer journey? And also how are you embracing it in a way that is starting to make a meaningful difference for your business and your platform?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I did a uh a talk on this um uh a few months ago, and um you know I painted a picture, I'll have to think of what the notes were, but there are two or three outcomes here, and I don't know which one it is, but one is uh there is potentially a world where OTAs die entirely, right? Um because to the extent that I can get hyper-local uh uh information about what's available for me to do, and I can engage in commerce directly through uh through chat, you have to kind of wonder what role um OTAs uh uh play in there. OTAs are really about curation and discovery and retailing. And that frankly is something that that AI does exceptionally well. That chat does exceptionally well. So that's one possible outcome. Second outcome is that OTAs actually step in and fill that gap exclusively. And and uh there is uh a counter prevailing theory that that's the likely outcome. Um my personal view is I've met with most of the leadership teams of the major OTAs, and some are aggressively moving to capture that ground and probably do well. A few others look like they're stuck uh like deer in the headlights. So it may be if you do particularly well and if you go away entirely. And a third likely outcome is neither of the above. There's something we can't see, there's something new. We're in step one of a 10-step journey, and uh it will change in the future. But I think that's the battleground that's shaping up right now. Will consumers buy increasingly directly through uh AI interfaces, uh ChatGPT, or will OTAs uh continue to gain strength and take that place in there? Um every week, look at the headlines, something dramatically uh some there's no announcement, there's no initiative. So there's the the prize is enormous. Uh and uh it's not gonna just naturally go to someone that's being fought for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and this is the part that I'm really intrigued to see how it plays out because obviously we had, you know, 20 years ago the last major technological shift with the dot-com era, and there's lots of parallels between then and now. Um, as I'm sure obviously both of us being kind of a similar age and looking at your career and when you sold your first business, like you know, you went through that exciting stage. And it's I think for uh for any of us who did, we're back at this point where it's just like it feels so exciting again because there's so much there's so much riding on this that could
Octo And Fixing Fragmented Distribution
SPEAKER_02move in different directions. And the the phrase that I like to use, which is similar to what you're referencing, is that you know, there is the potential for the dam to break if all of a sudden agentic booking tools people start to trust them and they're no longer beholden to this you know uh process that really you know we've only known it for 20 years, but it's amazing how quickly it became the default standard that you search, you get results, you go to websites, and then you go to you know OTAs to make the booking. And if in a world where websites are no longer relevant, where you have agentic tools acting on your behalf, then you know websites become irrelevant, that whole search process also becomes meaningless. That's right. And all of a sudden, but the one thing I'm bullish on for you and for your operators is at the end of the day, and this is one of the things I love about travel, is the human element. And so that you know, at the end of the day, people need to get on that hot air balloon or they need to, you know, they they're gonna go to a meow wolf, they want to have that end destination experience, but but how they're finding it, discovering it, how they're booking uh changes, but they need a platform like Tripworks. And so TripWork needs to be agnostic. I'm telling you something you obviously already know as far as you know, they can book direct, they can book through intermediaries, and so we'll service the intermediaries, but the likelihood that that's going to shift and change is is quite significant. So let let's let's talk about what's ahead, Aaron, for both TripWorks and the industry, and you know, finish our last 10 minutes just discussing where you think this industry is going in 2027. So I'd love to hear you, Visa. And we're having this conversation midway through 2026. We've talked a little bit about consumer uh behavior changes, we've talked a little bit about AI and direct and and uh and different distribution options. Um tell us what are some of the kind of the big trends you're paying attention to, and obviously feel free to go into more detail on what you were just highlighting because that is clearly one of the biggest topics we need to um navigate is you know the future of OTAs in this space. And I I agree with you. There's some people that are bullish on it, and other people think that you know it's gonna be it's gonna be the first um industry to really be disrupted with agentic AI. So, yeah, what are some of the things you're paying attention to you'd highlight for our listeners?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um uh I'll nearly repeat verbatim what you just said, except I won't because of the interest of time, but I I could not agree more. I do think at the end of the day, operators will need um systems and tools and platforms like Tripworks to organize their physical reality. You still have to keep track of of all the stuff going on. Number two, you're right, we're humans. That's not going to change. Uh I went on a uh cruise ship writer recently, and uh it was pretty clear that that's gonna have very, very little impact uh on the face of AI. It's just the mechanics of moving people through a physical world are are largely uh gonna remain um uh unchanged. Um I agree with you that uh the web is likely to uh take a big hit. Uh I don't know what shape or form, but the world of having an SEO website is is now open for grabs. I'm not optimistic uh about uh OTAs long term. I think the way that I look at it is that uh you look at any major system that's been developed, ultimately what happens is this whether that's um Facebook or it's a Twitter or any Google for that matter, any YouTube, these ecosystems, they start, they solve the core problem, and then uh a periphery of parasites will hop up, sucking value out of that ecosystem. And you know, you saw it from uh uh social media influencers offering different things on top of uh networks like Instagram. Ultimately, the host expands to consume that. Um, and so to me, that's a little bit what OTAs feel like. They are ultimately going to be extracting value from that core um uh um problem that that that uh OpenAI and other platforms solve. And it's there's just too much at stake. So the likelihood that they move that direction, crowd OTAs, I think is worth looking at more closely. Um I would say looking forward the next couple of years for an operator, the concept of an isolated tech stack is absolutely going over seeing massive consolidation. The worlds of having five platforms, one for voice and one for text, and one for messaging, and one for QuickBooks, one for marketing, is really, really going away. That that's gonna be pretty significant. Um I think that uh many operators today are in a position of fear about adopting new technology. Um you know, but but I think you know, at the end of the day, operators are really, really smart to um keep their eyes open and be open to changing things that they thought to be true in their technology stacks with newer um newer solutions out there like Tripworks.
SPEAKER_02Well, just on that note, obviously, you know, as you continue to build out the platform, I'm keen to know where Tripworks is headed because obviously, you know, it's uh clear to me, and I'm sure it is to our listeners as well, Aaron, even hearing you describe that. Um you are quite astute and savvy in understanding where we are in terms of the travel technology ecosystem and some of the things that are like very likely to shift and change in the coming years ahead. And so as you are anticipating that, clearly you're making decisions about you know what product you're gonna focus on, what platforms. And now just genuinely curious. I mean, we have a global audience, and so I'm sure many of our listeners are gonna be intrigued to know you know where you are today and where you're headed. Are you expanding into new markets? Are you expanding into different product categories? Tell us a little bit about where the platform, the team, and your overall growth and expansion plans.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's um you know, it's been interesting in the early days. I think we solved different types of problems we are now. I think increasingly enterprise operators are looking to
Social Commerce Limits And AI Booking
SPEAKER_00us to solve their problems, I think, as we're maturing and growing. So our average customer profile is about triple where it was two years ago. Uh larger operators, more established, bigger problems to solve. Uh their problems solve everything from the customer journey to economics, accounting, tax, security. So there's lots of these sorts of issues that I think we've been positioned to sell well as we've grown matured. Um but yeah, there's no end to the opportunity. It's a really exciting place to be today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the one thing I would certainly highlight to all of our listeners is that a lot of the um well-funded uh travel OTAs, or even um if you look at companies uh certainly like a get your guide or cluke that are you know looking to go public, you know, we've seen, you know, they've had the uh private investment, they're looking to go public, and all of a sudden these numbers are going to get more scrutinized. They're very focused on profitability. We even saw this recently with Exotica. Um, you know, they're now doing $400 million and they're focused on multi-day and they're now profitable. And so there's these messages that are clearly needing to get out about the growth and profitability. And so um I actually, you know, uh I'm very bullish in the next not just 10 years, but 20 years in this overall category. So I think you've picked a um a great industry to be a part of. Obviously, I'm thrilled that you know you are uh a key player in this space now because I think that it's uh it's ultimately what keeps a lot of other technology platforms honest is great competition and being able to have someone that comes into the market that does something interesting and unique. And that's again one of the big reasons I wanted to have you as part of this uh conversation. But I want to make sure that all of our listeners, Aaron, having met you today on our podcast, um, know where best to connect with your team or reach out to you directly with more questions. So uh what would be the best ways for our listeners to do that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh a lot of great ways. I'm on LinkedIn. I uh still email is great. My email is Aaron A-A-R-O-N at tripworks.com. Um uh website, Tripworks.com, has information as well. But uh love to engage and talk to operators. It's one of my favorite parts of my job.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. And I know you're clearly an avid traveler. I know you're uh based just out of New York City, and so which is um, you know, speaking to the team from Fora. You know, New York is such a great city to be based in as a travel business because everyone's coming through New York at some point over the course of the year. Um, but clearly you're traveling. Tell us a little bit about what you still have planned for your travels for the rest of the year, both uh personal and professional, if you wouldn't mind.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Well, Hawaii's been a tremendously evolving market over the last year, a lot of structural changes. So I think I've been to Hawaii four times this last year. It's a long haul. I will say that from uh New York. It's not as close as it might look. Um, Europe has been fun. I've visited Belgium last year for the first time,
TripWorks Roadmap And Closing
SPEAKER_00Amsterdam a few times, uh uh Paris, um, England. Um so I will say that's one of the things about this role that uh I do enjoy. I do love seeing operators. I do love travel. It's hard not to love travel, but um seeing uh our operators and our customers share their passion with others is is is certainly a big part of the job. Very exciting.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Well, I certainly look forward to seeing you again in person. We'll uh in Spokane at the arrival conference later this year in October, um, likely the Focus Right conference as well in uh Florida in November. And um uh and I you know really appreciate making the time for this conversation and and um and for our listeners and myself to learn more about Tripworks and what you guys are working on. Thanks for sharing so many valuable insights with us, Aaron, and good luck and wish you and the team great success for the rest of the year. Thank you, Dan. And thanks to all of our listeners for joining us for episode two of our In Destination series. Thanks again to our series sponsor, Pernot Ricard, for sponsoring this series. If you want to find out more about Purneau Ricard and their brand homes, check out Pernot Ricard.com. And thanks again to Aaron for joining us and sharing all the fascinating insights about what's happening at Tripworks. It was great to see him again and to hear the continued success that they're having. If you want to check out more information about them, check out Tripworks.com. And then don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on our social channels, which you can find on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast. And next week we have episode three of our In Destination series, and then we're gonna be wrapping up season seven with a very special guest, the creator and producer of the amazing race. So I look forward to uh sharing that with you over the next couple of weeks and then having everyone having a bit of time off in August before we launch season eight in September. Thanks again for joining us today, and until next week, safe travels.
