#25 | Why Striving for Excellence (Not Perfection) Builds the Leadership Credibility That Gets You Promoted.

In this engaging conversation, Nash Vracas shares her inspiring journey from winning awards in the automotive industry to her experiences in Olympic sports and charitable work. She discusses the importance of recognition, overcoming imposter syndrome, and the value of taking opportunities. Nash emphasises the significance of discipline, time management, and the lessons learned from failures. She also highlights the importance of building trust in professional relationships and the joy of giving back through volunteering. 

Throughout the discussion, Nash's passion for her work and her commitment to personal growth shine through, making for a motivating and insightful dialogue.

TAKEAWAYS

• Recognition is important but not the main motivation.
• Imposter syndrome can be a sign of growth.
• Taking opportunities can lead to unexpected career paths.
• Discipline and time management are key to success.
• Failures can provide valuable learning experiences.
• Building trust relationships is essential in the workplace.
• Enjoying your work leads to better performance.
• Curiosity and asking questions are vital for growth.
• Volunteering can provide a sense of purpose and fulfilment.
• Having fun at work fosters creativity and collaboration.

Sound Bites

• "This is finally a little bit of recognition."
• "Take every opportunity that is given to you."
• "You should be enjoying what you're doing."

Resources

Bold Moves Brief

Big Conversation Guide

You can connect with Nash here

You can find out all about Greenpower here

Her incredible photography can be viewed here

You can connect with Caroline here

New episodes are released every Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings.

Stuck, simmering, or onto something juicy? I want to hear it. Drop me a line at caroline@inspireyourgenius.com - I read them all.

And here is the Spotify Playlist to accompany UnShakeable Her.

Unshakeable Her is the podcast for women in leadership who are ready to build real influence, earn the promotion they deserve, and lead with confidence in systems that weren't built for them. Each episode tackles the challenges that shape leadership from the inside out, including imposter syndrome, resilience, credibility, boundaries, conflict, and feedback, while unpacking how pressure, workplace politics, strategic thinking, decision-making, and visibility affect the way ambitious women grow, lead, and get promoted without losing themselves in the process.

Transcript

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Caroline Esterson (00:00)
Welcome back to Little Moves, Big Careers. I'm Caroline Esterson, your host, and today I have with me a truly incredible young woman, Nash Vracas. Nash wears many hats which we'll unpack in this conversation, but by day she's program leader at Aston Martin, Lagonda. Their official hashtag is #intensity driven, and honestly that could be more fitting for this chat.

And if you've ever met Nash, you'll know she could have written that for herself. She doesn't do anything in half measures. Precision, discipline and craftsmanship. Her obsession is excellence, the kind that you can only achieve when you're razor sharp and focused. But there aren't any hard edges with Nash. She's also curious, humble and very compassionate.

I first spotted Nash when she received the Auto Car Great Women in Vehicle Development Award this summer and I can remember thinking, wow, that's not someone who's waiting her turn. She radiates warmth and energy. But when you dig a little deeper, it's clear that it's not luck. It's mindset, discipline and a few brave calls early in her career that have made all the difference to her.

Now a quick heads up before I go into it, the sound quality on this isn't my best work. You know, I'm still learning the Dark Arts of podcast production and let's just say the reverb had vibes all of its own. I've done my best to clean it up and trust me, it is absolutely worth sticking with because Nash dropped some pure gold with this interview. So with that said, let's dive straight in.

Caroline Esterson (02:11)
So welcome back everybody. Today's guest is Nash Vracas I first saw Nash being handed the Auto Car Great Women Vehicle Development Winner this summer and thought, wow, that's someone who is awaiting her turn. She has just such a beautiful energy. And when you dig a little bit deeper, I reckon we'll realize it's not luck.

It's mindset, discipline, and a few brave calls early on that got her where she is today.

welcome, Nash. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. No problem at all. So Nash, when you were standing there getting that award, and I know it's not your first award, is it? But when you were standing there getting that award, what kind of things were actually running through your head? It was a really surreal moment because I...

Nash (02:51)
Thank you so much for having me.

No, that's not.

It was a really surreal moment because I wasn't aware of all of all of the nominees until actually on the day and I was reading through the program, seeing all these amazing people. And when I was reading, they were incredible. And when I was reading it, I was thinking, my goodness, why would somebody pick me out of this comor? We are all really, really incredible people, incredible women. And when I went up, it was that moment of, do you know what? This is finally, a little bit of recognition of all of the work that I've done and I'm not motivated by that at
all. I just believe in doing the best possible job I can do. But it was was, yeah, that surreal moment and that just moment of having complete reflection on myself and being able to say, actually, you know what, I've made it and I'm one of the best in the industry. And that's that's not something a lot of people can say. So I was very proud of myself.

Caroline Esterson (03:39)
⁓ absolutely. You really deserve to be. I love what you said, Nash, about, you don't do it for recognition. what motivates you is doing the best that you can possibly do. And that's wonderful, because that's a real theme that has been running through a surprising theme, actually, that's been running through with everybody that I've spoken to, because you often hear, don't you set your goals, look forward, you know, make your five year plan. But actually, all the successful people that I've been speaking to, they just want to do a great job. Yeah, and get really, really driven, really driven by that. But

Nash (04:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely, I'd agree with that.

Yeah.

Caroline Esterson (04:36)
When you do get the recognition, it's a signal to you, isn't it? It's a signal that all that hard work is paying off. And I think that it is really important just to celebrate those moments. And I can remember seeing you on stage and actually being really moved by your response because it was a big opportunity. I think that whole awards event was fantastic because there were some great speakers there as well, weren't there? Yeah, amazing. Really incredible people.

Nash (04:41)
Yeah.

is, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah amazing, really incredible people and I'm very honoured to have had the chance to listen to them and also connect with them professionally as well so it was a very special event to be part of.

Definitely. And I think for me, one of the themes that came through and it inspired me to do on my earlier episodes actually, because to hear these really experienced, fantastic women that have done brilliantly in their career. And they said, didn't they? think you'll remember they all said, but I still get imposter syndrome.

Nash (05:32)
Yeah, a little


And I was really surprised by that. was surprised by their openness. And I think that what it made me realize is that when you continue to grow, you are going to always have that feeling because feeling is actually just telling you that you're stretching. Yeah, definitely. Which is really interesting. It's a very healthy feeling to have as well. And maybe a bit of negative connotations around post-surgery, but it's a bad thing.

But actually, what it is, is your body feeling uncomfortable in a situation you've not been in before. And that's normally a sign that you're pushing yourself out of your boundaries. And that's really what you have to do if you want to grow. If you always stay where you're comfortable, you're just not going to keep taking those steps to move on to the to the next big project and the next job. So I think having imposter syndrome is actually a very healthy thing to experience

Caroline Esterson (05:59)
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I think it...as you say, shows that you're growing, but I think it keeps you grounded as well, doesn't it? Yeah, it sort of keeps you a bit humble so you're enjoying what you're doing and being in the moment because you become very attuned to what you're doing. So have you ever had any moments where you kind of look back because how old are you Nash? 

Nash (06:33)
It does, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, definitely.

I am 34.

Caroline Esterson (06:52)
So, you you have had a whirlwind of a career so far, haven't you, at 34? So do you ever kind of go, wow, you know, how did I get where I am so soon? What do you think are some of the qualities that you've got that have really helped you be the success that you are at the moment? I mean, you've still got so far to go and I'm really looking forward to seeing that. Yeah, well, first of thank you so much.

Nash (06:56)
Yes, yeah I have.

Yeah.

Yeah, well firstly thank you so much for saying that because it's really nice to hear that somebody sees my career that way because like I said I've just done things because I really enjoyed them and I wanted to do the best job that I can so it is it is really humbling to hear that kind of feedback to say actually what you've done is really impressive so thank you very much and I really appreciate it. Pleasure. Yeah looking back I do have moments where I think, wow, how have I, how have I managed to fit all of that in? Because I have done so much and I have almost I do have my roots where I think wow how have I managed to fit all that in because I have done so much and I have always had two different careers, you will be aware of because I have my professional career, day to day career. And then I also run a charitable organization at the same time. And you're chair of the charitable organization. know, yes. Yeah. And I think between the two of them, I've managed to achieve a huge amount and at two completely different levels as well.

So I am the chair, I'm right up there in senior leadership and I'm also working with Franks in my day-to-day job. And I do have reflections on, yeah, I've done a lot. Those moments really come to me when I'm working with young individuals who write at the beginning of their career and they'll say little tidbits to me like, how do you know all of this? And those the grounding moments where I'm like, yeah, actually I do know all of this and I know all of this because I've actually been doing it for quite a long time now. But I think I've managed to do it just because I've always taken the opportunities as they were in front of me and as they were presented to me. And I maybe I'm not very good at sitting still or being too comfortable for too long. But as soon as a project or something came up, I just went for it, gave it all of my energy, did it to the best of my capability. And then you get more opportunities off the back of that and your experience grows. And it's just the first one you have to do to get started. that first one happens, they just keep coming back

Nash (09:05)
It's just the first one you have to do to get started. Once that first one happens, they just keep coming back.

Caroline Esterson (09:11)
Yeah, that's the really first bold step, isn't it? Kind of going, just say yes, even if you're just not sure about it, just say yes, because you never quite know what will happen. So you talked about having two different careers, really. So let's look at your professional career to start off with. So what's been your journey? Because it's not what you would call traditional. In some respects, is it?

Nash (09:13)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, absolutely.


Caroline Esterson (09:40)
How did you make the decision to go into what you're doing? Tell us a little bit about that. 

Nash (09:44)
Yeah, so my journey is absolutely not traditional at all. And I actually advise youngsters coming into the industry don't do what I did, because it was probably a bit more difficult. But it suited me perfectly. And I've managed to do everything that I've done because of the choices I've made. So I my background is actually in physics, which is a little bit unusual for somebody in engineering now.

Not so much in the past, but definitely now moving from physics into that subject. I studied physics at school.

Nash (10:15)
Sorry, I studied physics at university because I found it really easy when I was at school. It was just a subject that came very naturally to me. I found it very logical and it just answered all of my curiosities as to why the world worked the way that it did, why bridges work the way that they do.

Nash (10:36)
I love, there's one of the bridges, I think it's the Humber Bridge, is a suspension bridge and it has an airfoil plan formed to it and when the air moves, it actually pushes the bridge down and makes it more stable. Which is amazing, right? It's incredible. And for me, it's the physics and the science behind that that I find absolutely fascinating. So I went off and I started that at UCM. Whilst I was there, I absolutely fell in love with flow dynamics and my masters was in...

Nash (10:45)
fluid dynamics. And off the back of that, I really wanted to pursue a career in that, which is how I ended up working towards Aero.

So I did apply for lot of roles at the time. I didn't get anything and my feedback always was you've done the wrong degree. Okay. So which I thought was really interesting because I would actually argue even at that point I had all the technical qualifications to go and do it but it just didn't quite have the right tip boxes. So I then went on

So I did apply for a lot of roles at the time. I didn't get anything and my feedback always was you've done the wrong degree. So which I thought was really interesting because I would actually argue even at that point I had all the technical qualifications to go and do it but it just didn't quite have the right tick boxes. So I then went on and I did a second masters at Cranfield in aerospace dynamics and specializing in aero and that gave me tick boxes but it also gave me all the hand skills so I learnt CFD wind tunnel testing, track testing whilst I was there and that gave me the platform to then go and get a job in aerodynamics in the industry and I've

Caroline Esterson (11:45)
So Cranfield is actually very well located, isn't it? Geographically.

Nash (12:01)
Yes.

Caroline Esterson (12:02)
for that kind of industry. did you make contacts as well while you were at Cranfield that have helped you? absolutely I did. And I still talk to a lot of those contacts now in my career. And because it's quite a small university, the alumni is also quite small. So you can very quickly link up with other alumni who come from there. And it's almost like following a little group of people. So yeah, it's a really great way of networking. Interesting.

Nash (12:04)
Yeah, absolutely I did and I still talk to a lot of those contacts now in my career and because it's quite a small university the alumni is also quite small so you can very quickly link up with other alumni who've come from there and it's almost like our own little group of people. So yeah it's a really great way of networking.

Caroline Esterson (12:31)
Sorry, I interrupted you. was just like,

Nash (12:31)
Yeah, it's okay don't worry.

Caroline Esterson (12:34)
thinking about the geography of it. Yeah, it is very useful. So on the back of that, I ended up with a job at Jaguar Land Rover. That was my first job and I absolutely loved it. But I would still say I very much specialised in aerodynamics at the time. That's really what I found very interesting. I loved doing all the wind tunnel testing specifically.

Nash (12:37)
Yeah, it is very useful. So on the back of that, I ended up with a job at Jaguar Landrover. That was my first job. And I absolutely loved it. But I would still say I very much specialized in aerodynamics at the time. That's really what I found very interesting. I loved doing all the wind tunnel testing specifically.

I preferred that to the CFD side of things, just because I am a very hands on person. And

Nash (13:05)
About four years in I think it was I had this opportunity in front of me to go and work in Olympic sports and I thought oh do you know what I can't turn this down. So how did that come about? So I was looking at maybe taking a bit of a career change. Yeah.
 
I got to a point where I'd learned everything that I could learn from the role and I wanted to progress. And at the time that opportunity wasn't available at JLR because they had a hiring freeze. So it just wasn't gonna happen. So I sort of just looking around, seeing what was there and I'd sent an email to somebody and I said, actually, I really wanna work in your department. And they replied back and said,

Nash (13:47)
it's really lovely that you want to do this but unfortunately we don't have any jobs
but we do have a job over here in Olympic sport and we think you would be really well suited for it and I was like okay please can we have a conversation I really want to know more about this so I did I went down I spoke to them and I agreed 100 % I thought I'd be such a good fit because it pulled together all the different things that I had in my arsenal so I worked in winter sports so I completely

under the physics behind cold environments.

It was all fluids related, dynamics related, and I thought that just brings everything together. Let's go and do that. And I ended up working in sport for about three years. And then again, I was at a moment where I was looking for another role and I just put my applications out everywhere. And the first one that came back just happened to be back in the car industry. So I moved back in. And that's when I started looking at a more strategic level.

Nash (14:46)
And I think some of that may have been the influence of what I had been doing on my other side of my career, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but I wanted to have more of a say in terms of what's happening from a process perspective, from a management perspective. And I think some of that just comes with experience and age as well. So then I started taking on more senior leadership roles within the automotive sector. And through many, lots of different steps, I've ended up in my current role, which is within program management at Aston.

Caroline Esterson (14:46)
Brilliant.

So whistle stop tour, of a real, real, real zigzaggy, seizing the moment. It strikes me as that just like seeing that that opportunity could give you, could give you what you wanted. But how fascinating as well. It's been, it's been, I've had a lot of fun and I think the advice that I always give people is take every opportunity that is given to you. And I know

Nash (15:19)
Definitely whistle stop at all.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's been it's been I've had a lot of fun. And I think the advice that I always give to you boys take every opportunity that is given to you. And I know some that may not work out. And for me, there have been times where it hasn't quite worked out the way I wanted it to. But even those failures are learning points. And you can take the good from them and then apply them moving forward. But if I hadn't have taken that leap of faith, to go and do something different, I wouldn't have the experience that I have now. And it wouldn't have opened up as many doors as it has. So I'm a big advocate, especially if you're very early on in your career, take them, take them and have a go and see what happens.

Nash (15:59)
to go and do something different. I wouldn't have the experience that I have now and it wouldn't have opened up as many doors as it has. So I'm a big advocate, especially if you're very early on in your career, take them, take them and have a go and see what happens.

Caroline Esterson (16:14)
you talked, you said leap of faith. And I think that's absolutely right, because we often just kind of, even if we haven't set a plan, we kind of feel that this is our momentum, and we've got a line of sight to where we want to go. So when something comes in that's left field, it does have to be a leap of faith, doesn't it? Because it kind of almost goes against everything that you've been thinking. But

Nash (16:38)
Yeah, definitely.

Caroline Esterson (16:41)
that opportunity in itself, you know, you would have been meeting, I bet you would have learned from the elite athletes themselves, the coaches, the way that they respond to it, as well as the technicalities of doing the role. So it brought in a whole different level of skills that you maybe wouldn't have had access to if you'd been in sort of the car environment, the automotive environment. Yeah, absolutely. And one of them in particular is

Nash (16:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And one of them in particular is really

Nash (17:10)
my attitude towards day to day. Because in car industry, if you're having a bad day, it doesn't really matter because there are people around you and they'll be like, it's all right, we'll keep going, don't worry about it. But in sport, if you're having a bad day, the athletes absolutely cannot know about it. Because any negative energy, and I really do mean it in terms of energy that they absorb, can have a massive impact on their performance.

And so you have to be so tight-lipped, you have to keep it to yourself and you have to be

And so you have to be so tight-lipped, have to give it to yourself and you

Nash (17:39)
really positive.

Caroline
And is that something that's briefed into you or is it just something that you instinctively know? 

Nash (17:43)
Yeah, so when I properly interviewed, after I'd had the conversation, I did then interview for the role and they did say to me, what do you like working with athletes? And I was like, well, I haven't. And then they said, well, how do you handle yourself day to day? And I explained to them and they said, okay, we think you're a good fit, but here's just a few tips and tips of what you need to do. So I wouldn't say I was given like a really strict brief, but it was very much kind of explained to me. And they did,

I think as you start, as I started working with them, I realized exactly why.

why they had said all of that to me to start with. And when athletes are in the zone, my goodness, they are in the zone. They are impenetrable and they don't want anything bothering them. Outside of it, completely different people, hilarious, lots of fun, really great to be around. But when they're in the zone, they are so hard to focus. And in terms of that approach and attitude in sport, and like you said, the way that

Nash (18:13)
approach working with different athletes, get the best out of them.

Nash (18:39)
That's something that I've then taken and applied back into my role in the automotive world. So I do tend to keep a little bit more of maybe my frustrations to myself because I've realized that actually even in that setting, letting them out isn't necessarily a healthy thing. And I think also if you want to go into leadership, that attitude is something that senior management do pick up on. So if you...

do have a mode, like maybe the other day it's fine, but if you regularly act like that, things will pick up on that. Whereas if you have the ability to rise above, be positive, keep the team going, bring everybody together, that's a quality that will also help you take the next steps. If you want to move up, not everybody does, but if you want to, it's really that approach to a day to

Nash (19:05)
day.

Caroline Esterson (19:24)
Absolutely. And it shows your resilience, doesn't it? Because you're able to internalize and deal with any level of frustration or problem that comes up.

Nash (19:28)
Yes, definitely.

Caroline Esterson (19:35)
rather than letting it leak. We always talk about focus on the outcome that you want. Is your behaviour, is your approach in that moment serving you to get the outcome that you want? And if it's not, change it. You talked about choice earlier on, it is all about choices that we make and these micro things that we do all day long have an impact on how we're perceived by other people. So alongside your professional career,

Nash (19:39)
Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Couldn't agree more.

Caroline Esterson (20:05)
you've got your volunteering work that you do with Green Power. So I understand that you're, you learnt about Green Power. Was it when you were at school or college? Yes, did. So Green Power, just the reference, is a STEM charity and it inspires children and young adults to learn STEM careers by getting them to design, and raise electric race cars. And it's been operating for 26 years. So it's a very, very long standing project.

Nash (20:07)
Yes, I do.

Yes, I did. So Green Power, just for reference, is a STEM charity and it inspires children and young adults to go into STEM careers by getting them to design, and race electric race cars. And it's been operating for 26 years. So it's a very, very long standing and it works really well. So I actually went to Green Power for the first time when it was a year old. I was, I think about seven or eight and my sister was racing.

and it worked really well. So I actually went to Green Palace the first time when it was a year old. I was, I think about cent or eight and my sister was racing

Nash (20:46)
And I absolutely fell in love with it. I was like, I want to go and do this. And I was far too young at the time. So, yeah, as soon as I was old enough, I got straight in there and I was like, I want to be part of it. I want to help build a race car. And I just loved it and completely thrived.

And then when I finished school, I know, but you know, is everything. Can I put it out there? not everything. ⁓ No, it didn't. I learned a lot, a huge amount, but no, we weren't quite at that

Caroline Esterson (21:04)
Did your race car win? 

Nash

No, but you know, I learnt a lot, if you do that, but you won't be quiet

about it. It surprises people, and I say that to people now, they're like, no, no, you don't want to go to lunch, do you? Gotta learn, gotta learn. But yeah, so, and then when I left school, I was having...

Nash (21:16)
Which surprises people, when I say that to people now they're like, really? I'm like, yeah, no, I've never won a gold medal actually. I've handed lots out. But yeah, so, and then when I left school, I was having,

I don't know, a bit of a panic moment. I just wanted to finish school and I did not gel very well at all. And I didn't apply to university straight out of school. I just left and I started working.

Nash (21:42)
And a friend of mine who was a member of staff said to me, why don't you come down and volunteer at one of our events? Because we know that you love Green Power. We know you love our events and we're always looking for helping out. So I thought, yeah, sure, why not? Let's go and do that. And initially, I just did that once a year. And then when I went to Cranfield, actually, because I was

centrally located, it meant that I could volunteer a lot more. So I started doing like 10 to 15 events a year and I just loved it.

And it was so easy for me to get to because the events were an hour or two hours away by car. So it was really easy for me to do it and it gave me a purpose at weekends. And about two years into that I was then approached by the event CEO and he said to me, would you be interested on the board because we just love your energy enthusiasm and we think it would be really, really valuable. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Having no idea what that actually meant. I was like, yes, please.

Nash (22:38)
And I remember my first board meeting and I was like, oh my God, what have I just signed up for? This is crazy. And the level of responsibility that was suddenly on my shoulders was just not something that I was expecting at all.

Nash (22:49)
But it was an amazing learning opportunity for me. And I have a huge insight into how businesses operate that I would not have had if I hadn't have done that. And it's something that's allowed me to understand why decisions are made in my professional career. So when I hear internal communication,

people taking me out and a few people even questioning them in the background, I'm like, no, no, know exactly why they're saying that. So from that side, was a massive, massive learning opportunity. And then
out and a few people might be questioning them in the background I'm like no I know exactly why they're saying that so from that side it was it was a massive massive learning up and then about

Nash (23:19)
four years ago we lost our chair she stepped down and we were all in the conversation and at this point I'd never had any intention of taking that role on honestly because I didn't think that I was experienced enough to do it.

it. And I was chatting to one of the previous chairs and he was like, why can't you seek the obvious choices? And I was like, well, who is it? And he was like, you. I was like, ⁓ right, okay, interesting.

And he said, have a think about it. Let me know when I talk to you. I think it's tomorrow, later in the week. And I did. And I went away and I thought, actually, I would like to do this because I really believe in the organization and I'd like to see it grow. And I took it on and they said, look, any questions or queries or anything I'm sure of, just pick up the phone and ask. There's plenty of us around you that will help. And I've been doing it ever since. it is...again was another massive learning point, but it's one that I very much enjoyed. And I'm really proud of where the organization has gone under that leadership.

Caroline Esterson (24:16)
I think what's going through my mind is...that saying, isn't it? If you want a job done well, it to busy person. Nash, how do you find the time to do these things? it's not, know, being a chair of a charity is not just about turning up four times a year, chairing the meeting. It is a real hands-on, very, very involved role, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. I think I've managed to do all of it really because of discipline. And if you read any literature around

Nash (24:36)
Yeah.

I... Yeah.

No, it's not, absolutely not.

Yeah, definitely. I think I've managed to do all of it really because of discipline. And if you read any literature around how

to be a great leader or how to succeed, they always say you need to have really strong habits. And behind that, they'll say, motivation is great to get you started. But if you want to succeed, you need discipline. And I think that's something I learned at a very, very young age was just getting up and getting on with it. And I was like this when I was at university.

and I had a part-time job when I was there so I worked 20 hours a week. I did physics which is not an easy degree. I also ran a sports team and

 I had a social life and I did it all. And I remember one of my friends then, his name's Max, he was like, you're like a machine, because I see you coming home at midnight from your job and you're up at seven to go to the gym in the morning. And I was like, well, yeah, because I've got all this stuff, I need to do it. I've got to fit it in the same 24 hours as everybody else. Now.
just for the record I didn't do that every night but his point was you do fit a lot in. And I think I just learned to utilize all the parts of the day so that I could fit everything in.

And even today, I finished at lunchtime, so I've been in the office this morning. I had some paperwork before this call, then I'm gonna go to the gym and I've got another meeting at eight. So I've just filled up my day. But then I think on the flip side, it's about having that balance.

Nash (26:15)
So this weekend, I'm not doing too much. I've got a lot of downtime because you need the time to reset. You can't be all work and no rest. So I learned that discipline to get everything done. I tried to keep it in five days of the week. And then at the weekends, I try really hard to keep

to myself to allow myself to reset, recoup. And then when I approach the week, I have the energy to keep going. And I know it's a bit of a cliche as well. then people sort of say, you find a job and you feel like you never work a day for life.

I do and I don't agree with that saying, but I kind of understand the sentiment is that if you really enjoy what you're doing, it doesn't necessarily feel like work. Yeah. And I do enjoy what I'm doing. And I do get a lot of

gratification
out of it, especially the charity work, because I know what difference that's making to people. So I don't feel like I'm working 24 7. I feel like I'm just doing everything that I really enjoy.


Caroline Esterson (27:11)
Yeah, I think it's interesting, isn't it? You know, they do they do say find a job you love and you'll never never work a day a day in your life. But in all jobs, there are things that aren't great that you just have to

Nash (27:27)
Yeah.

Caroline Esterson (27:28)
you just have to get through. So I think it's really important that we're honest about this. And I think it is about discipline, it is about habits, and it is about choices. And it strikes me, Nash, that you're very clear about the things on which you want to spend your time. So I would imagine you don't get embroiled in stuff that you can't influence, for example, you just let that happen, let that happen in the background, keep focused on

Nash (27:47)
Yeah, definitely.

Bye.

Yeah.

where you're adding value all the time. Absolutely. I think there's so many things in this world that happen and go on and that people are passionate about. And that is amazing because you need those people, but you can't do everything. So like you said, pick the ones that you want to do, give that 110 % of your energy. I know I said it very good, don't worry about it because somebody else is going to be as enthusiastic about those as you are about yours. Yeah, I like that. know, it's somebody else's passion.

Don't worry about it, because somebody else is going to be as enthusiastic about those as you are about yours.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Caroline Esterson (28:27)
Let them let them be passionate about it. Just don't don't get distracted. Absolutely.

So, you know, we touched on you mentioned earlier on that you've learned as much from failures as you have as you have successes. If you look back across your career, has there been a real pivotal moment for you that has made you kind of fully appreciate?

where you're going, why you're doing what you're doing, or is it all just been sort of a series of little things that have added together? I think there have been moments where I've gone, yeah, that was really good, that was a really important one. And I think perhaps if you look at my CV or my profiles, will see everything, you'll see excesses and every single one of those projects I am.

Nash (29:03)
I think there have been moments where I've gone, yeah, that was really good. That was a really important one. And I think perhaps if you look at my CV or my profiles, you will see the good side of everything. You'll see all the successes and every single one of those projects I am really, really

proud of. I think the bit that isn't shown, and in some ways I'm okay with this because I don't really want it shown, is those failures and those moments where you have the grow points.


And I'm an engineer, so a technical failure kind of comes apart after you've done your job. It's how the whole process works. If something goes wrong, you go back, you find the failure point, you try again, and you iterate through until you get success. So I think technical ones, yes, they're great learning opportunities, and that's why your technical experience is important.

But I think those were less pivotal in my growth as a person. I think the ones that had more of an impact on me were when there were people involved.


Nash (30:03)
And through everything that I've done, one in particular is I've obviously hired people into roles and I've hired people into very senior roles and I haven't always got that right. And that happens, it happens in all businesses and I'm sure we could all sit here. It's really


Nash (30:20)
hard and I'm sure we can all sit here and we've watched somebody go into a job and it's been an absolute disaster and then they've moved on and somebody else has come in. But having that responsibility on my shoulders.

and getting it wrong was a big learning point. And I think it made me appreciate people who do that and appreciate how difficult that is. Because looking at how much that had affected people that I really care about, I have known for a very long time, I felt like I'd let them down so much. And it's one of those where

Nash (30:30)
you look back and you think, did I make the right decision? What criteria was I hiring that person against?

Nash (30:59)
know, hindsight to one thing, there's not much that you can do. And I'd say most of the time, it probably was the right person at the time. And they did tick all the boxes and you weren't to know that it would, it would have that fallout. But I think it made me appreciate how to work with people when things have gone wrong, and how to have the patience to let

them vent to you and let them get their frustrations and how to then help them fix it because you're have to fix it together.

Nash (31:21)

But when somebody's been hurt by a bad hire, that's a lot harder than you coming in and just hiring somebody else. They've got an emotional response to it and their confidence may be knocked or they may be very upset and frustrated and bringing that back to where they were, which were amazing people. That was probably one of my hardest challenges that I've ever taken on. And I


Nash (31:50)
definitely say that I'm a different person because of it. And I'd like to think I'm
very different because of it and the way I approach problems now. I think this this engineering approach that you've got that's kind of ingrained into you about find the point of failure, work on it, work what you have to do is such a good approach because when you do fail at something, it hurts and particularly as you say, when other people are involved.

Nash (31:55)
It's very different because of it and the way I approach problems now is very different.

Yeah.

Caroline Esterson (32:19)
It just hurts and it's easy then to get defensive or make excuses or, try and sort of just play it down a little bit because it hurts. And I think if you, if you can adopt that real engineering approach and think about why it happens, what would you, what could you do differently next time? And that, that sense of humility that you have Nash to really think about how do I build them up again?

Nash (32:48)
Yeah.

Caroline Esterson (32:48)
so that they are in a good state because often it's situational, isn't it? To everybody that's involved in that is such a strength, the fact that you care so much that you want to do that. Because again, that's about your reputation. People see that care and compassion as a really important skill to have. finding that balance is tough, isn't it?

Nash (32:52)
Yeah, definitely.

.

Thank you.

Caroline Esterson (33:20)
Finding that balance is really tough sometimes. Yeah, and I think in terms of the reputation, that's definitely what I would like to keep behind. I think the fame that you could get, I mean, I've never chased fame, but I think the fame that you could get by doing something amazing isn't as easy as it was in the past. So I'm never expecting my name to go down in the history books. But I would love it if you asked somebody who had worked with me or had known me.

Nash (33:22)
Yeah and I think in terms of a reputation that is definitely what I would like to leave behind because I think the fame that you could get, I mean I've never chased fame but I think the fame that you could get by doing something amazing isn't as easy as it was in the past so I'm never expecting my name to go down in the history books but I would love it if you asked somebody who had worked with me or had known me what

they thought about me and if it was something along the lines of

Caroline Esterson (33:47)
what they thought about me. And if it was something along the lines of

Nash (33:51)
great engineer, but a really lovely person and compassionate and took the time to work with people. I think for me that would be my vision of success because I've done everything that I've done because people have taken the time and care and attention to look after me and nurture me and I'd love to pay that forward and do that for the next generation.

Caroline

Even just thinking about that, Nash, keeps you grounded and keeps you focused on what it is that you want to do. Because, you know, in some respects, those are two very different outcomes that you're seeking, they? They're very different. One is what is about process, and one is completely about people. And the fact that you're talking about them bringing them both together is really powerful. So I love that. So who's guided you in your career?

Nash (34:18)
Yeah.

I've had so many people that have guided me. I think I've ended up the way that I've ended up probably because of my upbringing. So I owe a lot of it to my parents. I come from the aviation world, my father's a pilot, so it's very strong male dominated. I have a sister, they're two girls, two girls and I have a brother as well. But my dad was very much of the approach that you can go and do whatever you want to do.

Nash (35:12)
And so I had

that belief even as a child that, you know, obviously you have to work for it. It's not going to be handed to you, but there were no barriers. But because I was surrounded by such strong men, I kind of absorbed that. So I ended up being a very strong person behind it. And they also taught me that you only live once. So go and enjoy your life, take the opportunities available to you. And I think that was something that has also really guided me.


Nash (35:41)
And one of the things my mum in particular has always said to me is if you're going to do something, make sure you do it properly. So I don't cut corners. I'm known for being very tenacious. I really care about the details, especially when I'm working on processes, because I think sometimes people who work in strategy forget that process is going to be handed to a person that then has to do it. So I really care about that detail to make sure things are explained in a way that somebody will understand. And that definitely comes from her.

Nash (36:10)
And then I think it's working with a lot of volunteers that gave up their time, who came into school. I know there was an individual called John Lewis who helped me through both my GCSE and my In-Oval projects. And then it was working with organizations like Young Engineers, which is sadly no longer around, but Young Engineers. And I remember Stu and Lil and Dave Lakin. And they were all so important to my development because they encouraged me and inspired me and gave me my confidence.

Nash (36:40)
And then, yeah. Yes.
it sounds like you're just you're you're like a sponge Nash you're so open to people Helping and supporting you And then when I started at JLR, there was one individual in particular, and as always, I really hope you hear this because I have so much respect for him. But his name is Steve Windsor. He's known for the Winthrop of Lunar Isonetics, and I used to call him Thunderball Louis Steve because he just knew everything. But I came in...

curious
like how I was just asking questions and he said to me one

day, I really enjoy working with you because you just ask questions and promise me all the way through your career you continue to ask the questions because people aren't going to come to you and necessarily tell you stuff but it will be very rare for somebody who's as experienced as he is to not help you but you have to go and ask for it and I think that's also stuck with me.

as I've moved through my career is if I come across somebody who's experienced that I admire and I want to kind of absorb all of their knowledge and expertise.

Nash (37:42)
I've asked the question. So I think between those individuals, that's really how I ended up onto the path that I am.

That is such a sage piece of advice. And it's so simple, isn't it? you know, maintain that level of curiosity and just keep asking. And, you know, I love that you've that he said that it's rare that somebody at that level.

Nash (37:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline Esterson (38:04)
will not want to help, but you've got to ask because that is a message that I keep on banging on about because I think that in the work that I do, I see too many people that say, Oh, I couldn't, I couldn't ask them. They're just so busy. And I just really want people to know that generally most people will want to help if they can.

Nash (38:05)
really rough.

that.

Mm.

Yeah I

think secretly they're never that busy, they will always be happy to come and talk to you. they might be like can I come back? Exactly. I mean they might say to you like can we talk about this in about half an hour or something like that but I think you know really good leaders and good management they will always find the time for you.

Caroline Esterson (38:29)
He's going back to what you said earlier about the way we fill our time, isn't it?

Yeah, brilliant. Nash, I'm just conscious of the time because I could carry on talking to you forever. This is wonderful. But I would like to bring in a bit of your, your out of work creative side, like your photography. I'm good for time, so if you want to... I know, but the podcast will go on forever. So...

Nash (38:59)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm good for time, so if we run over it's not a problem for me.

Caroline Esterson (39:13)
One of the things that struck me in the things that I've looked at about you, because I did a bit of digging beforehand, Nash, is that you've got this real interesting combination because you're an engineer, which immediately makes you think about, makes me think you're factual, it's black and white, you're hugely analytical.

Nash (39:21)
That's fine.

Caroline Esterson (39:38)
But even in just talking to you, that sense of curiosity has really come out. You do volunteering and a lot of that is about people and inspiring the next generation, isn't it, as well? So that's very different. And then as one of your joys and your hobbies, it's photography and you take the most beautiful photographs as well. And so I think that for me,

Nash (39:59)
Thank you.

Caroline Esterson (40:06)
When you look through a lens of a camera, I do think you see the world differently because things come into a really sharp focus. And I'm just wondering if there's any sort of influence that you could perhaps pinpoint that helps you from your photography with work that you're doing as well now. Yeah, definitely. I think if you're creative, you have a very visual mind. You have the ability to see things that others can't. So photography's a really good example.

Nash (40:25)
Yeah, definitely. I think if you're creative, you have a very visual mind. You have the ability to see things that others can't. So photography is a really good example.

You could have 10 people in a row looking at the same screen, same scene, and the photographer will see it in a way that the other nine don't. And they'll take that picture and you'll think, how did you see that? It's so such an unusual perspective. And I think with the way that I work, and I know sometimes people find it very strange.

Nash (40:53)
I have the ability to think laterally because I have a way of being able to see a whole system in my mind. I can see how everything links together in my mind. And that means that I can often pinpoint failures before they've happened, because I can see how everything flows in my brain. Okay. That's not, I'm not sure that's going to quite fit in, which if you don't have

that visual pigmentation of creativity, I don't think you can. Yeah. So it's definitely had that influence. And I know the majority of my career has been in aerodynamics and I know

I've always been able to give feedback on changes, especially surface changes in the car industry without necessarily running any CFD on it. CFD stands for computational fluid dynamics. So it's our computer software.

I've always been able to get feedback on changes, surface changes in the car industry without necessarily running any of deal. It was safety stands for computational.

Nash (41:48)
But I don't have to do it and the reason is because I'm very experienced in it. some of these changes I've seen before but I can visualize air flows around a vehicle. So I know that out of surface it's likely to do this to the airflow and I know through conversations with my peers that not everybody can do that. And I think it's one of the reasons that aerodynamics did come so easily to me because when we were sat in a room I could hear all the different conversations happening around me, all the different stakeholders, what they needed to do.

Caroline Esterson (41:51)
Interesting. interesting.

Nash (42:18)
and why they wanted to change surfaces. And in my mind, I was like, okay,

well, if it does this, yeah, we'll do that. And then it will all link together. And then I could always work with them to try and find a solution. And I, yeah, I would say that comes back to the fact that I have that very visual creativity to my personality.

Caroline Esterson (42:37)
interesting so that brings me to think about something else you know you've got you've got this innate ability that other people don't have

and you're young, how do they, how do people respond to you telling them that you can see, see the obvious, which to them is not obvious? It's an interesting one because I, I not so much now, I don't feel like I am young necessarily. Definitely at beginning of my career, it was a bit of a struggle and I know there are a few eyeballs raised.

Nash (42:57)
Probably not. It's an interesting one because I, not so much now, I don't feel like I am young necessarily. Definitely at the beginning of my career, it was a bit of a struggle and I know there are a few eyeballs raised when I was

like 24 walking through and being like, yeah, you should do this. And maybe now, yes, when I come in and I work with somebody for the first time, there might be the same initial step back. But I think in

Caroline Esterson (43:18)
and maybe, oh yes, when I come in and I work with somebody for the first time, then might be the same initiative that back. But I'm

thinking every scenario, you have to build trust relationships with people. And that is an overnight job. And I think if you walk into a room on day one, assuming everybody's gonna give you respect, can do exactly what you say.

Nash (43:26)
every scenario you have to build trust relationships with people and that is an overnight job and I think if you walk into a room on day one assuming everybody's going to love you and respect you and do exactly what you say then

you really need to check in with yourself because that's just not how things work. Humans will take a step back and be like who is this person but if you can calmly work through problems and work closely with people

Caroline Esterson (43:42)
and you really need to check in with yourself because that's just not how things work. Humans will take a step back and be like, who is this person? But if you can calmly work through problems and work closely with people,

Nash (43:54)
then within a couple of weeks, they'll get used to you being around and it won't be such a shock. And within a couple of months, the kind of question as to whether or not you know what you're doing will just dissipate. Because if you can

Caroline Esterson (43:55)
then within a couple of weeks, they'll get used to being around and it won't be such a shock. And within a couple of months, the kind of question is whether or not you know what you're doing will just dissipate. Because if you can...

Nash (44:06)
provide evidence, if you can demonstrate in the fact that very short amount of time that you do know what you're talking about, then over time, it'll just fall away. And I think after maybe three months, maybe six, depending on how old you are, think if you're younger, might take a little bit longer.

Caroline Esterson (44:07)
provide evidence, if you can demonstrate in that very short amount of time that you do know what you're talking about, then over time it will just fall away. And I think after maybe three months, maybe six, depending on how old you are, I if you're younger, might take a little bit longer.

Nash (44:23)
you won't have any issues with your own people and I don't think in the team that I'm now anybody questions how old I am or anything like that.

Caroline Esterson (44:24)
You won't have any issues with your people. And I don't think in the team that I'm now anybody questions how old I am or anything like

Nash (44:32)
think they just see me walk into the room and most people are like, oh, Nash does it, it's probably true. So yeah.

Caroline Esterson (44:32)
think they just, they just see me walk into the room and most people are like, Nash says it's probably true. yeah.

God, Nash, I could kiss you. So these, the things that you're talking about right now, I mean, I'm good, I won't, I'll cut this out, the things that you're talking about right now. So I, I deliver learning in, I create experiences for people. That's, I want people to discover for themselves. But

Nash (44:40)
Hahaha

Okay.

Caroline Esterson (45:01)
what you've been talking about, all the key themes that I've banged on about all the time. And it's just, had that little kind of like bubbly in my tummy when you were talking about, it's about developing relationships first. You you've got to draw people to you, haven't you? And so many people in such a rush, they just kind of expect that people would just listen to them. It's like, oh, I'm happy to speak with them a lot. don't mind, but I think as well, I could say the same about being a woman.

Nash (45:04)
you

Yeah, is. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think as well, and I'm happy for you to do this and I don't mind, but I think as well, I could say the same about being a woman in engineering

too, because I always get asked all the time, oh, what's it like? There's not very many of you. And I'm like, OK, well, there isn't. But you still have to develop those trust relationships. And I promise you, as soon as you have, nobody is going to look at you differently because you're a woman. They're just not. But it's the same if you walk in and somebody gives you that look.

Caroline Esterson (45:32)
I get asked all the time, what's it like? There's not very many of you. And I'm like, okay, well, there isn't, but you still have to develop those trust relationships. And I promise you, as soon as you have, nobody's going to look at you differently because you're a woman. They just know. But it's the same if you walk in and somebody gives you that

look, I think a lot of people jump to the conclusion that it's because you are a woman. When it's not, it's just because you're new. They don't know who you are and they don't necessarily know why you're a brim.

Nash (45:51)
think a lot of people jump to the conclusion that it's because you are a woman. When it's not, it's just because you're new. They don't know who you are and they don't necessarily know why you're in the room. But

Caroline Esterson (46:00)
but just give people the time to get to know you and it just won't be a problem.

Nash (46:00)
just give people the time to get to know you and it just won't be a problem.

Caroline Esterson (46:05)
And it's actually no different whether you are a man or a woman or anything. is being respectful of other people and not expecting anything immediately. it? Yeah. Love that. Love that. Right. Let me have a look where we are.

Nash (46:08)
No. No.

Yeah, yeah exactly.

Caroline Esterson (46:28)
I like this one. So if your career was a car prototype, what would you be tweaking before it goes to market, ⁓

Nash (46:41)
That's such a good question. ⁓

wow. I think I would be a six cylinder currently only running on four because I think I've got the performance, I've got it all there. You can take me on the road, you can have a lot of fun. But like you said, I'm still quite early on in my career and I think there's a lot more that I'm gonna do and I'm gonna achieve. And I think you could just unlock.

Caroline Esterson (46:48)
I think I would be a six cylinder currently only running on four. Because I think I've got the performance, I've got it all there. You can take it on the road, you can have a lot of fun. But like you said, I'm still quite angry with my career and I think there's a lot more that I'm gonna do and I'm gonna be than I think you could just unlock

Nash (47:11)
Those are the two cylinders and then it would be something amazing. six cylinder running on four.

Caroline Esterson (47:11)
these other two cylinders and then it would be something amazing. ⁓

I'm so looking forward to seeing that because I think that the very fact that you are so open is going to set you in good stead for moving forward as well, isn't it? And there's just this real eagerness about what could be next. What could it be, is just brilliant. So Nash, before we finish off, if you were to give three pieces of advice to people...

Nash (47:25)
Bye.

Yeah, definitely.

Caroline Esterson (47:44)
who are starting out in their career or maybe just struggling a little bit, what do you think those three nuggets would be that could really help them sharpen their opportunities? Yeah, absolutely. I think the first one I mentioned earlier is the one from my heart, that it's if you're going to do something, do it properly. Absolutely do it properly. I often say to people strive for excellence, not perfection. Yes.

Nash (47:55)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the first one I mentioned earlier is the one from my mum and it's if you're going to do something, do it properly. Absolutely do it properly. I often say to people, strive for excellence, not perfection. Don't, don't,

Caroline Esterson (48:11)
don't sell yourself short, don't cut corners, really, really, because that is what's picked up by leaders and that's actually what's going to help you get to the next step. So if you're going to do something, do it properly. I think

Nash (48:11)
so self-assured, don't cut corners, really, really do it properly because that is what's picked up by leaders and that's actually going to, that's, that's actually what's going to help you get to the next step. So if you're going to do something, do it properly. I think.

Caroline Esterson (48:24)
the next one is a phrase and it's don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game, which is a quote by Babe Ruth, who is an American baseball player. And I've been really honest where this came from.

Nash (48:25)
The next one is a phrase and it's don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game, which is a quote by Babe Ruth, who is a American baseball player. And I'm to be really honest where this came from.

It's actually from a Cinderella story with Hilary Duff that I used to watch on repeat. Actually, I still watch it on repeat. I love that movie. But it's that I mean, it's a Disney movie, right? So it's that moment.

Caroline Esterson (48:41)
It's actually from a Cinderella story. I love that movie. It's a Disney movie, right? So it's that moment

where it's written on the side of the diner, her dad's diner. It's a Cinderella story. Her dad passes away, she's got evil stepmother and it's on the side of the diner and the door slams and some wallpaper rips off the wall and the saying comes out.

Nash (48:54)
where it's written on the side of the diner, her dad's diner. It's a Cinderella story, so obviously her dad passes away, she's got evil step-mum, and it's on the side of the diner, and the door slams, and some wallpaper rips off the wall, and the saying comes out. And it's

the pivotal point of the movie where Cinderella's like all riled up, and she goes and, you know, wins everything, and it's all like very high school movie. Anyway, for me, as you do, it's teenage rom-com, I love them.

Caroline Esterson (49:09)
And it's the pivot point of the movie where Cinderella's all riled up and she goes and wins every bit of it. It's all very high school movie. Anyway. Beautiful. We all love a bit of that. I love them.

Nash (49:23)
But it really stuck with me and when I've had moments of, my goodness, am I doing the right thing? In the back of my mind, I have that quote and I'm like, yeah, do you know what? Let's go and do it. So don't fear striking out people from playing the game. And I think

Caroline Esterson (49:23)
But it really stuck with me. And when I had moments of, my goodness, am I doing the right thing? In the back of my mind, I have that quote and I'm like, you know what, let's do it. So don't earn bit of strike and have to put that in again.

Nash (49:38)
the last one is just have fun. Have fun. You should be enjoying what you're doing. You should be enjoying life. And if you're really not, then maybe it's a time to do something different or make a change, but you should also

Caroline Esterson (49:38)
think the last one is just have fun. Have fun. You you should be enjoying what you do. You should be enjoying life. And if you're really not, then maybe it's a time to do something different or make a change. But you should

always have fun and your days should be filled with laughter. And like you said earlier, there will be stressful moments in jobs. That's part and parcel of how it works. But you should also have the fun moments as well and the laughs and the jokes in the office and things like that. So make sure you have

Nash (49:51)
is have fun and your day should be filled with laughter and like you said earlier there will be stressful moments in jobs that's part and parcel of how it works but you should also have the fun moments as well and the laughs and the jokes in the office and things like that so make sure you have lot

of whilst you do.

Caroline Esterson (50:09)
I love that. remember when I started working at a financial services company, I was sitting in reception in my fuchsia pink suit, because we all wore suits then, my fuchsia pink suit, and I just saw all these grey suited men walking past. was like, what have I done? Because I think we

Nash (50:22)
Yeah

Caroline Esterson (50:26)
work has got this thing that you've got to be serious. And I just feel you're so much more resourceful and creative if you're having fun and you can enjoy being with your colleagues as well. So yeah, love, absolutely love all three of those, Nash. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for your time today. It's been an absolute delight talking to you. Loads to reflect on for our listeners, I reckon.

Nash (50:29)
Yeah, you've been a derrick.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

See you.

Caroline Esterson (50:51)
And I think we should perhaps have you back in a year and see what you've done in that year as well. Thank you so much.

Nash (50:56)
Yeah, that would be amazing. I'd love to. Thank you.

Thank you.