Caroline Esterson (00:01)
Well, hello there. Welcome back to Little Moves Big Careers. I'm Caroline Estes and your host. And today's episode has been really challenging me as I've spotted a tension that I want to address. And it all started with my chat with Nash Vracas last week.
So this conversation with Nash frankly has been living a little bit rent free in my brain. There were three things for me that she said that have just kept spinning because honestly they are the real difference between those that quietly progress and those who just burn out. And while we're on the subject of burnout, I don't know whether you've noticed it this too, but I keep seeing this wave on TikTok from what I call the bare minimum crew.
You know, those people who proudly say big corporations ask too much to just show up, do your bit and log off. And it's fascinating, right? Because while some people are quietly striving for excellence, others are openly rebelling against it. So today I want to unpack that tension a little between excellence and exhaustion, discipline and detachment, and how all of that energy leaks into what we do.
Plus, we're also bringing back one of my favourite games and trust me, this one's going to make you laugh, cringe and maybe even question a few of your life choices. Are you ready? Let's go.
Caroline Esterson (01:56)
⁓ So, before we dive into today's big ideas, let's play a little game I like to call Leak, Legend or Lunatic. I'm going to read out some classic workplace moments, the kind that we've all been guilty for, so get ready to cringe. And
Wendy's going to tell me what she thinks they are. So are you ready, Wendy?
Wendy Gannaway (02:23)
ready, Caroline. And I actually see that we are both coordinated in our colors, cosmically connected and all of that. That's legendary stuff. Go on, go ahead, hit me with it.
Caroline Esterson (02:27)
Cool,
Clearly, clearly.
just for our listeners, let's be clear. Leak means that it's an energy drain. Legend means that it is, whoa, such a powerful move. And I'm sure you know what lunatic means, you know, where your efforts officially tip into madness.
So I think we've got ten in a bonus for you, so we'll wheel through these really, really quickly. Are you ready? Number one, you stay up till midnight perfecting a detailed report that honestly, you know, deep down, no one is going to read fully, they're just going to skim it.
Wendy Gannaway (02:57)
Okay, go on then.
⁓ that's definitely got leak written all over it. It's emotional and it's really slightly tragic and yeah, ends up, I've done that.
Caroline Esterson (03:15)
Yeah.
Yeah, me too! This is where boundaries are so important, we'll talk about boundaries later. Number two, you bring your laptop to the spa day you've been waiting for forever because relaxation always gives you better ideas.
Wendy Gannaway (03:38)
No, that's total lunacy, and I've actually seen somebody do that and I said to myself, not out loud, that's lunatic, book a therapist, not teams call.
Caroline Esterson (03:48)
Absolutely. Number three, you pre-schedule your focus block and defend it like a bulldog.
Wendy Gannaway (04:01)
⁓ Caroline, no, that's total legendary. Discipline, not diva behavior. ⁓ love it.
Caroline Esterson (04:06)
Definitely,
definitely. There's those boundaries again. Super play. Number four, you announce very loudly that you're going to log off now and then spend 45 minutes checking Slack just in case.
Wendy Gannaway (04:22)
no, total cringe. Leak. Leak. That's Boundary Theatre. No, no, no, no, no, no.
Caroline Esterson (04:29)
calm, stay calm. Number
five, we're halfway through Wendy. You deliver something that's 90 % ready and ask for feedback early.
Wendy Gannaway (04:34)
no, no.
Oh, legend. That's excellence. It puts it out into the world. And I'd probably say, I'd probably be inclined to pop that in 80 % ready because who wants to put all their beautiful effort 110 % perfect just for them to say, no, no, no, that's not exactly right.
Caroline Esterson (04:51)
you
Yeah. I didn't want you to focus on that bit.
Wendy Gannaway (05:05)
Yeah, I
know. I'll fall down anyway.
Caroline Esterson (05:10)
Haven't we just? Number six, you tell your team, don't worry, I'll do it myself.
Wendy Gannaway (05:17)
Leak That is classic control freak behavior and also a little bit slightly passive aggressive, know, like I, nobody does it better.
Caroline Esterson (05:22)
Isn't it just... I'll just do it!
Number seven, and I know someone who does this. See if you can guess who they are. And just for the record, I love them very dearly. You color code your to-do list with six shades of your favorite color.
Wendy Gannaway (05:47)
There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I refuse to say it's lunatic behaviour. I think it's legendary. But some people, Caroline Esterson will say that's lunatic. But it's a cute design.
Caroline Esterson (05:49)
You
Very cute, very cute. Colour coded perfectly. Number 8. You eat your lunch away from your screen and you actually taste your food for once.
Wendy Gannaway (06:14)
Legend move. Completely taste that freedom and even better still, even if you're working from home, put that phone, put that device in another room.
Caroline Esterson (06:24)
Go out for a walk, even if it's just five minutes round the block.
Wendy Gannaway (06:28)
Don't be tempted people, don't be tempted.
Caroline Esterson (06:32)
Number nine, you quietly pick up the slack from someone doing the bare minimum, then seethe in silence.
Wendy Gannaway (06:41)
leak. You are so leaking energy and enabling mediocracy.
Caroline Esterson (06:46)
And that's the point, isn't it? You're enabling somebody to do that. Number 10, you drop your standards just a little bit because actually, frankly, no one really cares, do they?
Wendy Gannaway (06:49)
Hmm.
Leek, congratulations, you've just joined the Mediocracy crew.
Caroline Esterson (07:06)
Yes, mediocracy at its worst. And the bonus one, which I see in pretty much every company that we go to. Are you ready? I'm going to enact this one. I haven't got books and things like that to come in with, but you know, imagine my laptop in hand and I come charging through the room. You start every meeting with, ⁓ gosh, I'm sorry, I'm so late. I've just been crazy.
Wendy Gannaway (07:09)
Mm-hmm.
Go on then. Go on then.
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
⁓ leak! You're leaking chaos! And it's infectious as well!
Caroline Esterson (07:34)
Absolutely. Yeah,
definitely. You know, your poor organization shouldn't be impacting on other people's quality work. So, I mean, I have to be fess up here. There are a couple of those that I definitely have done in the past that occasionally I'd like to say much more rarely, but I'll leave you to make that verdict, Wendy. There have been a few that...
Wendy Gannaway (08:01)
You're getting better.
You're getting better. I still like my colour coded, my colour coded lists just to help a certain person forget certain items of clothing.
Caroline Esterson (08:04)
Thank you.
I'm
to have to post a picture of our shared calendar on LinkedIn. It is a sight to be seen, definitely. So if you've cringed more than twice, congratulations, because you're self-aware, which means that you're halfway to fixing it.
Wendy Gannaway (08:22)
very pretty. I know what it all means. It's fantastic.
Caroline Esterson (08:35)
So let's talk about how to stop those leaks and work more like a legend.
Caroline Esterson (08:44)
Okay then, so now that we've all been emotionally humbled, let's dig into what Nash really made me think about. And the first thing is about excellence, not perfection.
So in Nash's episode, she said, I'm not motivated by recognition. I'm motivated by doing the best possible job.
And I think this theme of excellence versus perfection is such a subtle one, but it's also really critical to understand the difference. And I've talked about this before. Perfection is all about you. It says, if it's not flawless, it feels like...
failure and you're constantly measuring yourself and often come up short. Well, of course, because life is messy and complicated. It's so rare that in today's world we can be flawless. And I want to remind you of this with a clip from an earlier episode with Chris Mooney.
Chris Mooney (09:40)
problem is with the word perfection, because who wants to be perfect? Where's left to go from
your flawsomeness because we all have flaws, none of us are the finished article. So the whole concept of having a growth mindset is that we should be able to continually evolve and knowing that we're not perfect and owning the fact that we're not perfect. So embrace your flaws and be vulnerable enough to show them.
Caroline Esterson (09:48)
Love it! ⁓
Caroline Esterson (10:07)
So, Flawsomeness, that is my 2025 favourite word. So, instead, it's about excellence and that is about focusing on the work. It says, if it's useful, clear and improving, then we're on track. You're starting to measure impact and not your self-image. And listen to this, researcher Sarah Lewis from Harvard calls this phenomenon
the deliberate incomplete. She argues that mastery isn't about arriving. It's being nearly there, just shy of perfect because that tension is what propels your growth. It's like making pancakes. You know, the first one is never perfect. It's a bit lumpy, a bit crispy around the edges uneven but it's how you test the heat, the timing and the mix. And by the third one, you've nailed it.
Or in the gym, you don't walk out after one workout saying, perfect, I'm done now. You go again, you add weight, you tweak your form. In practical terms, perfectionism burns your energy trying to avoid failure. Whereas excellence channels that energy into learning faster. One burns you out, the other builds you up. So what does this look like back in your day job? Well,
It's things like the report you hand in on time with just the right amount of information, not the one that you obsessively polish in your weekend hours. Or it's spending 10 minutes thinking through your main points before a meeting, not three hours rehearsing every possible question like you're about to face Jeremy Paxman.
Or it's delivering the update now, getting the feedback, then iterating it next week.
rather than waiting until it feels perfect. So if you build the kind of reputation where your work does the talking for you, you don't need to shout about it. That's what Nash did.
But we also don't want you to sit back and just wait, just wait to get noticed. So let's make this practical. So you might be sitting there thinking, ok Caro how do I actually show?
my substance without sounding like I'm bragging? Well, let me give you a trick. It's called the three E's, evidence, effect, and exposure. Evidence is what actually changed the before and the after, the metric that moved, the thing that you unblocked. Effect is why it matters. The time you save, the risk you reduce, the revenue you increased, or the headaches that you reduced.
and exposure is who needs to know.
So your challenge is to pick one thing you've delivered recently and run it through the three E's. What changed? Why does it matter? And who needs to know?
Remember, excellence earns you trust. Visibility allocates the opportunity.
And to help you with this, we have the visibility checklist. I'll pop the link in the show notes for you. And finally, before we move away from the topic of excellence and perfection, have a think about this. When you're chasing perfection, feedback feels like a personal insult, like someone's poking holes in you. But when you're focused on excellence, feedback is fuel. It's not, I'm not good enough. It's, hmm, that's interesting. How can I make this stronger?
That's exactly what Christine Reynolds said back in episode 17.
Christine Reynolds (13:53)
if you're a perfectionist or have perfectionistic tendencies, you're hearing or looking for feedback to be super positive. I nailed this because I did so much work. All my intention, all the effort, all of my energy research, I went to town on this. I'm not ready to hear anything other than you nailed it. So it's very binary. I definitely have perfectionistic tendencies, which means that when
someone says can I give you feedback even before they start and they're like I failed. I failed because there should be no feedback. I nailed it. I'm binary. Success, failure. Perfection, failure. There isn't anything else.
the feedback comes in you need to think about this isn't about me personally. So your identity and you know the behaviors you associate with yourself that's one thing but we're talking about a particular skill a particular task at a particular time that one piece of delivery at that time so as it's coming at you as you're starting to process what was said
trying to separate self from task. We're talking about presentation, your slides, not you as a person.
Caroline Esterson (15:09)
So once you detach your identity from your output, you can actually start hearing feedback without flinching. Perfectionists take it personally. Excellence seekers take it professionally. So feedback still feels a little bit like an emotional paper cut. That's your sign you're aiming for perfect, not excellence. See how you can change that.
Now, before we all polish our beautiful halos of excellence, let's talk about the other tribe, the Bare Minimum crew. You've all seen them. They clock in emotionally at 11 o'clock, clock out mentally at three, and somehow they still look really fresh for Friday drinks. There's even a corner of TikTok where people proudly declare, I do the bare minimum and go home. I'm boundaried You've probably got at least one of them in your team.
Do want to know how you could tell this person? Well, they're the people whose diary is always full, but somehow you never see them move anything forward. Every slot in their calendar is labeled catch up, touch points or project sync. And then if you ask them what they actually did that week, they'll say, my God, the number of meetings.
Or you pitch an idea and they go, hmm, we've tried that before. There's no points. Or they're the one who's always tired, always been wronged. You know what? The company could give them a raise, a desk by the window and a free puppy and they'd still say, yeah, but what's the catch? Now it's easy to condemn them, but let's take a beat and ask why they might be like that. Most people actually have positive intent
For a lot of the bare minimum crew, it's really about self-preservation. They're not at all lazy, though some maybe are. Most though, are really disillusioned. They've learned the hard way that giving 110 % in a system that doesn't reward is basically self-harm. So they pull back, they protect their energy. But somewhere along the line, that boundary that they put in, that self-protection has turned into...
just not bothered. Meanwhile, however, the rest of us are out here killing ourselves, picking up the slack, and if we're honest, maybe a tiny bit jealous that they can just coast. But here's the truth, neither extreme works. Burnout and apathy are just different brands of the same problem. Disconnection.
can't fix bare minimum crew by doing more. You fix the dynamic by modeling smart, excellence, visible outcomes, calm energy and boundaries. Yet you have boundaries too, but your boundaries say, I care about the results, not theatrics.
And here's the thing. You know what? Excellence isn't about impressing your boss or outperforming the person sitting next to you. It's not even about the next shiny title. It's internal. It's within you. It's about your pride. It's knowing that you did something properly, even when no one else would have known if you hadn't. That's the mark of a real professional.
Not the loud ones who post their wins, but the quiet ones who build trust brick by brick by brick because they care about the work itself. You're not doing more for your company. You're doing it for you because showing up well is part of who you are.
The Bare minimum crew, well, you know what? They just run on compliance. They do what they've got to do just to get by. But excellence, excellence runs on pride.
So let's move on to the second focus from my conversation with Nash last week. This is about discipline. You know, Nash amazed me. She's got her salaried full-time job. She's the chair of a charity and she still finds time to fulfill her passions outside and to rest. So where does that discipline come from?
Now, Nash was really interesting because she talked about motivation being your spark, it lights the fire. But discipline, that's what keeps the fire burning.
Discipline is the wiring behind it all, the unseen architecture that holds up the momentary rush. In fact, research shows that self-discipline outpredicts raw ability when it comes to long-term performance.
For example, studies of academic achievement found that students self-regulation and discipline were more reliable indicators of success than cognitive ability alone. So here's the shift. Motivation says, I feel like doing it, but discipline says, I'm going to do it anyway, even if it's hard. That means building containers for your craft, for your people and for your reset.
I call it the 111 discipline loop. You mark out one craft block a day. This is deep work on your core outputs. You mark out a people block a day. This is where you proactively invest time in relationships that matter to you. And then each week you mark out one reset time, a planned moment of recovery and perspective.
That reflection really helps you build on what you're learning as you go through your work. Why does this matter? Well, because when you rely solely on motivation, you're at the mercy of your mood, your environment, and of course, the quality coffee. But discipline creates stability, it puts you back in control.
According to habit formation theory, behaviors repeated in consistent contexts become automatic and self-sustaining. So here's your drill. Time Tetris. Block three craft blocks this week. Block three people blocks this week. And schedule one reset.
this week. Remember, it's not on the calendar, it just won't happen.
Okay, so with that all in place, let's move into how energy and leaks impact your performance. Back to Nash again for our final deep dive. She talked about her previous job when she worked in Winter Olympic sports
about it like this.
If excellence is the engine and discipline is the wiring, energy is the current that makes the whole thing move. So let's talk about that energy leakage because your energy hits the room way before you do. And it's not just sports psychology where this is considered, it's neuroscience. Your emotional state broadcasts faster than your words. In fact, studies from the University of Michigan
show that emotional contagion happens in under 150 milliseconds. That's faster than most people can fake a smile. So if you're gonna walk into a room frazzled, flat or fed up, guess what? Everyone else starts syncing to that frequency because as leaders we set the emotional climate. And now I'm not just talking about people who have leadership in their job titles here.
This is for anyone who sees excellence as important in their work. That's leadership. Energy leaks spread like glitter, tiny, shiny and utterly impossible to clean up once they're out. A Gallup study found that employees who rated their leaders as energetically consistent were 53 % more engaged and 39 % more productive.
And emotional regulation, according to the Journal of Applied Psychology in 2021, improves decision making accuracy by up to 24%. And finally, Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence found that leaders who manage their affective state boost team creativity by up to 30%, because calm brains are curious brains. So no.
Managing your state isn't a soft option, it's actually your strategy. So how do we control that energy instead of letting it control us? It's simple, but it's not easy. It's another habit you need to develop. And I use a quick reset model called Plug, Prime and Perform. It helps you shift your state in under a minute. Plug.
Acknowledge it and contain it privately. Pause, write, use the no send rule if you wouldn't say it out loud directly to the people involved. Don't send it in an email at midnight just because you're mad.
Prime whisper the outcome you want before the meeting. Literally say to yourself, I want calm clarity in this room.
intentional thoughts shift your psychological state. Heart rate, breath tone in seconds. You're basically rewiring your own vibe.
And then perform. Start calm and end clear. People don't remember the middle of the meeting, they remember how it ended. So finish with confidence, not chaos. The last line becomes the emotional imprint you leave behind. So prepare how you want to be at the start and the end of any encounter. Remember, energy is contagious.
Make sure yours is worth catching.
Okay, so this week's dilemma is from reliable from Redford.
Wendy Gannaway (26:57)
Dear Auntie Caro, I've built my reputation on being reliable and producing great work, but lately it's starting to feel like a curse. I keep getting told I make others look bad or set unrealistic standards, and it's starting to kill my motivation. So how do you protect your energy and discipline when excellence starts feeling isolating?
Caroline Esterson (27:25)
Yeah, I feel this one and you know what? I see it a lot. I hear about it a lot. You've been rewarded your whole career for being dependable, for taking pride in your work. And now it feels like that very quality maybe is being held against you. And it'd be so easy wouldn't it to slip into that bare minimum crew. sounds like you've hit excellence fatigue.
when your high standards collide with a low accountability culture. And because you're the one with pride in your work, you're also the one people quietly rely on and then quietly resent.
so if excellence starts feeling isolating, it's not because you care too much, it's because you're carrying too much. Somewhere along the line, pride turned into pressure and discipline turned into duty. So how do you protect your energy in this sort of climate? Well, go back to what it's all about in the first place. Reclaim excellence as your internal driver. That's your boundary. That's boundary of respect.
not an external expectation. You do it because it's who you are, not because somebody else wants it from you. That's the difference between pride and people pleasing. You can still deeply care just with better boundaries. So that means delivering work that's excellent, not endlessly tweaked letting feedback inform, not define you.
protecting your reset time as fiercely as you would your deadlines. When someone says you make others look bad, that's not feedback, that's their projection. It's their discomfort talking and it most certainly isn't your problem to fix. You can't shrink yourself into safety. You hold your standard, but you stop over-functioning.
Excellent should elevate you, it shouldn't exhaust you. Remember to maintain your discipline because the world doesn't need you to be smaller, it needs you to be steady, sane and to continue shining.
Alright, you know the drill by now. Three small, smart moves that pack a serious punch.
One, rewrite one update from effort to outcome. If your last progress update sounded like I worked really hard on this, rewrite it to say what changed.
keep saying it and I'm going to keep saying it until it really sinks in. This focus on outcome is just so important
about the effort, it's about the results. Hard work doesn't speak for itself.
Number two, book tomorrow's 45 minute craft block. Find one pocket in your calendar that isn't chaotic and block it for your deep work. Call it your craft block, the space where you do your best thinking, not your fastest typing.
Protect that time that moves the needle. And number three, run a five minute leak audit. After your next meeting, score yourself one to five on calm clarity. Did you lead with composure or leak frustration?
There you go, three moves, under 10 minutes and no burnout.
Alright, it's time for this week's Career Quote Crime and today we're taking down one of the most overused lines in corporate history.
Wendy Gannaway (31:13)
it 110%.
Caroline Esterson (31:17)
Hmmmm Cute? No. Inspiring? No. And of course it's mathematically impossible. Here's the truth. This quote is guilty of confusing commitment with self-sacrifice.
the kind of phrase bosses throw around when they really mean we didn't plan properly. But could you just work your magic anyway?
Giving 110 % sounds heroic, but all it really does is teach your nervous system that exhaustion equals success. No wonder so many people apply the bare minimum theory. Let's be real, if 100 % of you isn't enough for them, that's not a performance issue, it's a resourcing issue. Discipline isn't about doing more, it's about doing what matters most, consistently and still having enough energy left to live your actual life.
So next time someone says we need 110 % from you, smile sweetly and say I'll give you my all, but in a sustainable way. Because excellence doesn't come from overdrive, it comes from control. Alright then legends, remember excellence isn't loud, it's built in the quiet, in the draft you tighten, the conversation you handle with grace, the standard you keep, even when no one's watching.
Perfection tries to prove something, whereas excellence, that just wants to move something.
And discipline keeps the engine running long after motivation's taken a nap because you don't need the hype. You need to develop good habits. So this week, do me a favor. Stop leaking energy into things that don't matter. Stop trying to outwork people who aren't even playing the same game and start building the kind of excellence that runs on pride.
So if this episode gave you a spark, share it with someone who's forgotten how good it feels to care about their craft and go grab your free templates, the visibility translator, your bold moves brief, and if you're a team leader, the big conversation guide. They'll help you turn all this talk into action. And next week, or you're going to love this, it's the Maverick Survival Guide. How to thrive when you don't fit the mold and still make your mark without sanding down
your edges. So until then have a great week, make your move even if it's tiny especially if it's tiny.
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