Let's Talk Teeth

Insights from Parkland OMFS Program Director Dr. Thomas Schlieve

• Saadman Alamgir

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In this episode of 'Let's Talk Teeth,' we are joined by the distinguished Dr. Thomas Schlieve, the Program Director of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery at Parkland Hospital. Dr. Schlieve shares his inspiring journey from Wisconsin to becoming a renowned oral surgeon and educator. He discusses his educational path, including dental school at Marquette University, medical school at LSU Shreveport, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Residency at University of Illinois, Chicago, and a Head and Neck Oncology Fellowship at the University of Tennessee Medical Center. Dr. Schlieve elaborates on the unique aspects of the Parkland OMFS residency program, its rich history, and the extensive network of alumni. He also provides insightful advice for dental students and aspiring oral surgeons. Tune in to learn about the challenges and rewards to becoming a top-tier oral surgeon.


00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:21 Dr. Schlieve's Background and Journey to Dentistry

01:46 Choosing Oral Surgery

03:11 Residency and Fellowship Experiences

04:42 Medical School and Oncology Focus

11:59 Path to Parkland and Academic Career

16:47 Becoming a Program Director

18:24 Words of Wisdom from Dr. Tawana

19:14 Shaping the Residency Program

20:45 Parkland's Unique Offerings

24:18 Ideal Candidate for Parkland OMS

30:23 Residency Life at Parkland

34:13 Final Thoughts and Mentorship

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Saad Alamgir:

Sweet. What's up everyone. Welcome back to let's talk teeth today. We have a very special guest, Dr. Thomas Schlieve, Dr. Schlieve, if you don't mind introducing yourself, tell us what you're doing now, where you went to dental school, a bit about your background. And we could just go from there.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

sure thank you 1st for inviting me on the podcast. I always enjoy interacting with the upcoming dental community and shining some light on what we do at Parkland, what oral surgery does. A bit about my background, how I got here. So I grew up in Wisconsin very Midwest kind of upbringing, really never left the state much at all. And then, initially wanted to go into pharmacy. Pharmacist told me, don't do that. My neighbor was a dentist. He said, definitely be a dentist. So I got on my path to dental school and went to undergrad at the university of Wisconsin, and then went to dental school at Marquette university in

Victor Razi:

Nice. For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

started dental school, very much wanted to go into general dentistry, had no, no thoughts about specializing whatsoever. Story short, did a whole bunch of stuff, ended up in oral surgery. And we can go into some of that detail if you want, and then did a fellowship in head and neck surgery and reconstructive surgery in Knoxville, Tennessee. And then ended up here where I am now at Parkland, where I've been for eight years. think I've been the program director for six years. And I really believe that I have the best job all of dentistry and of course, oral surgery as well. So I'm really excited to go to work every day and interact with

Victor Razi:

Sweet. So was there like a defining moment where you were like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do oral surgery or, that's the route you went down. So was there like a moment or did it blend with school?

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah there, I would say there are a couple of things that kind of piqued my interest in oral surgery. One was actually had a family member who had oral cancer

Saad Alamgir:

Wow. Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

then, like, how he went through that process, I started thinking about maybe how does dentistry get involved in this? And that's what directed me a little bit more towards

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And then I just, there were some good oral surgery mentors at Marquette. They were all private practice But. They brought me under their wing a little bit, started shadowing some oral surgeons, seeing

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And it was to me and it's maybe a little bit cliche to say this because everyone says it in their personal statements when they apply for oral surgery, but it's a mix between Dentistry and medicine and it crosses those fields a little bit more than some other areas of

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

and that's what I really liked. I it was almost like I Than general dentistry was giving me and going into oral surgery, put me in the hospital, was a totally foreign world

Victor Razi:

I can imagine.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

someone in

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And yeah, and I loved it and I loved it. And

Victor Razi:

Right. Was the fellowship in mind prior to the residency or is that something you enjoyed while you were doing

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

No, but, interestingly, when I started my residency, I didn't really know that oral surgeons could oral cancer surgery. I just thought I could be In it? As an

Victor Razi:

Spectator ish.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah, I had this, yeah, I just had a vague Probably my fault that I didn't look into these things more. A lot of my experience was with private practice Prior to my residency. I was a little bit narrow minded and only really applied to oral surgery programs in the Midwest and only four year And then I ended up at a four year Midwest program at the University of Illinois, Chicago. But then the best thing happened to me, which was the year I started Dr. Michael Maloro took over that program and he's a dual degreed oral surgeon. And he hired Antonia Koloketus, was a head and neck fellowship trained oral surgeon. So I walked in the door and there were these two people there that I didn't even And the residency changed. My perception of oral

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I decided medical school, I decided oncology and fellowship. and so I did my four year program and then went to medical school after, because I had not been accepted into a six year program,

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I wanted

Victor Razi:

And

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And so set that

Victor Razi:

so it was the medical school after residency, just a way for you to bridge the knowledge gap for learning more about,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

yeah,

Victor Razi:

That's wild. Never do that type of sport.

Saad Alamgir:

That's crazy.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

much in medical school. I tell. Candidates now, when I meet with them or dental students, when I meet with them, I was naive when I was in my four year program. And I just thought if I studied really hard, I'd learn everything that the people who went to

Victor Razi:

Right.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

did medical school learned, I'd just pick it all up because I'd be

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And you just you can't

Victor Razi:

It's not possible,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

that much information while you're doing every, yeah, you just have to go to

Victor Razi:

man.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And, for most of us, for myself included, I only did two years of medical school after my residency. I didn't have to

Victor Razi:

Nice.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Thank God. And but then doing it after residency is a unique perspective. And it, it really showed me how much I truly learned as a medical student and how much. My thinking about the patient evolved, then I had to do general surgery again for another year, which you do one during your residency and you have to do one after your medical degree to get your medical license. So I had to repeat that year. And then I did my fellowship in oncology.

Victor Razi:

that's a crazy

Saad Alamgir:

Man,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah I would not recommend, I don't recommend that to anyone.

Saad Alamgir:

did not.

Victor Razi:

a bold soldier.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

It's not a good way to do

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. I did not expect.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

taking you years instead of

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

you do it that way because of the And, but having an MD For what I do now, is a lot of oncology and pathology, and I go to tumor board. Where it's myself and a radiation oncologist and a medical oncologist. It helps a perception. You have a medical

Victor Razi:

For sure. Understandable.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

does. cause then when they look at you,

Victor Razi:

You've got the respect.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

not

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

in the

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

even though, it doesn't change anything about your

Victor Razi:

Yeah,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

If you're degree oral cancer surgeon or a dual degree, oral cancer surgeon. It's just a

Victor Razi:

for sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

people

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

and perception

Victor Razi:

did indeed.

Saad Alamgir:

I got two kind of separate questions, but going off of what you said, so you finished your four year degree in OMFS. did you go? And was there like a entryway or like a pathway for people who are already trained to get into medical school? And another question I have is backtracking back to dental school. mentioned that you were interested in oral surgery. You mentioned that you obviously went through oral surgery, but at what point. During dental school, did you realize that this is the career you want to pursue and what years did you do that? And how did you prepare during dental school for oral surgery?

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I decided I wanted to do oral surgery during kind of mid to end of second year dental school. And then I started looking into what does it take to get into an oral surgery program? What am I have to do to match essentially? And, back in the old days when I did all this, we still had a grade for our So I didn't have to take the CBSE exam, which everyone has to take now if they want to go to oral

Victor Razi:

for sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So I just took my regular dental boards, and I knew I had to score. I knew if I got a 90 or above on that exam, have a really good chance So that's, that was one goal. And then I knew I had to build my CV a little bit. So I needed some kind of leadership, something, some committee, something, sort of research experience. So I sought out that one of the oral surgeons at Marquette did research in forensic dentistry. So I partnered with him and spent some Saturdays just calculating tooth Things For forensic dentistry did some community service, did some externships. Kind of checked all the boxes that are on the list of things you have to do to get into oral To make sure. I got in the first time around. I really, I, I really wanted to do all surgery, but I really didn't want to do an intern year before going into residency. So I tried my best to do everything I could and it's not rocket science how to get into oral surgery. You just have to do the To check all the

Saad Alamgir:

Right.

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

It's simple. And then to your 2nd question about my medical school and kind of how that all worked out. So I was a. About a second year resident in oral surgery at UIC, University of Illinois Chicago, when I decided I want to do this medical school then fellowship thing. Dr. Maloro reached out to the medical school at UIC on my behalf, and we started a conversation about what that would look like, and they told me I could take the MCAT. And apply to

Victor Razi:

Brutal.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And if I were accepted, I could petition for advanced standing, but there were no guarantees of anything. And med school there is really

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

80, 000 a year. So I

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir:

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And thankfully, when I was coming out of residency, LSU Shreveport, where Dr. Ghali was the chair of oral surgery. He had a great relationship with the medical school and he had for several years accepted a four year oral surgeon into that medical school. And it was like a spot. And so I interviewed with the Dean of the medical school. I interviewed with Dr. Ghali. I had to take the CBSE while I was a chief resident in oral

Saad Alamgir:

Oh my gosh.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

score high enough

Victor Razi:

Right.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

get into the medical school there. And I had to get a To allow me to start in 3rd year of medical school, do my 3rd and 4th year in Shreveport. And then, I could do my now that program doesn't exist So I do get a lot of calls and emails from oral surgery residents around the country who are interested in going to medical school after their residency, because there aren't very many of us who did it asking how they would. And unfortunately, I don't have a great. Answer as to how that works. Now, it's really a case by case thing. Wherever you are, you're going to have to, have someone who has a relationship with the medical school, Relationship where they

Saad Alamgir:

Pull some strings. Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

school.

Victor Razi:

Good work.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Good enough to skip 2 years of School and go, only 24 So it was just perfect timing. And the way that all worked out, basically, Dr. Maloro called Dr. Ghali because they both write the Peterson's textbook of oral surgery. Peterson's principles of oral maxillofacial surgery. They're the editors for that

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

They know each other very well. Dr. Maloro called Dr. Ghali said, I got a guy for you.

Victor Razi:

Yeah, that's crazy. I, it's hard. Yeah. There we go.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

for 2 years.

Saad Alamgir:

That's the real win right there, huh?

Victor Razi:

So how did you

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

yeah, Life

Victor Razi:

your spot in at Parkland? Was that kind of your goal or how'd that opportunity arise?

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I, before I applied for the job at Parkland, I had never stepped foot into Parkland hospital. I never ex turned there. I didn't even But I knew that Parkland was just, it was a monster. It was It was busy. The residents were just like cowboys running around. And there were a lot of great oral surgeons in the history of oral surgery who came

Victor Razi:

right.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

When I started fellowship, had two options. One was go back to Chicago to the University of Illinois, Chicago, where I did residency, where I would work with Dr. Maloro and Dr. Kolokitas and help build

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

or I would go to Parkland and I basically just cold called the chair at Parkland. Dr. Zuniga told him I wanted to come there. He said, send me your CV. We just had someone turn in their resignation. let's And it

Victor Razi:

Geez. What are the odds that somebody was resigning to you and

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I had 2 faculty join my residency program who weren't there when I interviewed. changed my career that got me into medical school at a place where it no longer exists to go to medical school as a

Victor Razi:

right.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And then the year I did my fellowship, Parkland was looking for someone

Victor Razi:

Expertise.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

specific

Victor Razi:

That

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

to

Victor Razi:

was meant to be for sure.

Saad Alamgir:

Your journey was meant for you. Yeah. That is awesome. But.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

so when people ask me like about my journey, I say, I have Because if I didn't do

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I would have finished, I would have finished a year

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

and that job wouldn't have existed at Parkland. So me taking this long way, eventually put me at Parkland where I am today. And I love every minute of it and really am very appreciative to be a part of a historic

Victor Razi:

For sure. And congrats. That's huge.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, definitely. And so what was the poll to do academia slash working in an oral surgery residency program versus going to the private practice?

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Part of it was I developed an interest in oncology and really, although you can do head and neck cancer surgery in a private practice setting, it's much harder

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

than it is in an academic setting. So that was part of it. The other part was my mentors, Dr. Melora and Dr. Kolakidis. I really wanted to emulate the careers that they had. I saw them and what they did and I had no exposure to that before I started my

Victor Razi:

Right.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So it was I didn't know what I didn't know. I only really knew private practice or surgery. The programs I externed at were a little bit more limited in scope and how busy they were in the hospital. There was a lot more clinic based. So it, it meshed with my perception of oral surgery and then I got to UIC and I realized that there was so much more and that's just me being naive again, but there was so much more to it. I really loved being in the hospital. I enjoyed, working with the other hospital services. I enjoyed the bigger cases, taking call, being in the ER. And then the biggest thing for me was the academic part of it, like teaching and scholarly activity. Every day in a residency is a challenge because you have all these hungry minds around you asking questions. Maybe they're not doing things quite the Right. way and you've got to redirect them. your own private office, you just do whatever Day.

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

you any questions And if they are asking questions they're not oral Surgery residents usually. So you could just say anything and You probably. And I liked, That challenge, that part, that being a part of a residency where we have grand rounds and presenting cases and talking about, okay, how do we do this better? Where did this go wrong? It just really spoke to me that culture and I ate it all up and dove At first.

Saad Alamgir:

That's sweet. Looks like you've definitely found your passion, your calling and the journey that you've had has been quite literally met just for you. So

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah. I

Saad Alamgir:

forging your own

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

fantastic.

Saad Alamgir:

doing the things you've been doing. So has it been different? Cause you mentioned that you joined eight years ago and six years ago you became program director. What was that? First off, what was that transition like? And second, how has that impacted your overall experiences at Parkland?

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I always wanted to be a program director. Once I decided academics and I was going to go that route, I knew one day I wanted to be a program director and run my own residency program when I started at Parkland Paul Tawana, who's the current chair at Oklahoma's oral surgery program was at Parkland as the program director and my 5, 10 year plan was that he was going to be there for 5, 10 years. He would maybe become the chair there and when he became chair, he would have mentored me into this program director role and I'd have a well run practice by then I'd have a few years And then a year and a half in, he announced he was leaving to take the chair position at Oklahoma.

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So the program director spot opened up. And I guess a lot of things, and I was in the Right. place at

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

to become a program director very early in my career. And I wasn't going to Because someone else takes that job. They might be there for 20 So I had to put everything into it to get that position. And thankfully was named the program

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And once Dr. Tawana announced he was leaving and that I was going to become program director, he did then spend a lot of time. Mentoring me into that program director role. He had me sit on meetings with him when we did the residency application cycle and interviews. He had me interviewing with him and reviewing applications with him. So he could impart on me all the knowledge he had gained as a program director and that was super

Victor Razi:

sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

as I became a program director and I still keep. I left I sit in his desk now, his old desk, and he left a, like a note For me on the desk when he said that. And I keep that note like on the edge of my desk. And I just, every once in a while I read it cause it's just filled with words of encouragement

Victor Razi:

That's awesome.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

it gets me excited on a long day and things like that. When the residents are stressing me out

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

to remember, Dr. Tawana's words of wisdom and and then It didn't change a whole lot except it added a lot of administrative That nobody really wants to do, It's more fun to be the program director, but not

Saad Alamgir:

Have any of the responsibility. Yeah.

Victor Razi:

Understandable.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

just hanging out with the residents is the fun part. But do then as the program director. And this is something Dr Zuniga, who was the former chair at Parkland, still faculty there, had told me the program really takes on the culture of the program director. you are going to lead this group and they're going to follow And it's really going to start to shape into a program that matches you and that's been pretty cool to see the program change over the years to continue to grow For us to become busier. I love operating, so we get busier every Because that's what I want to do. And those are the residents I take and we keep pushing forward in that direction. That's the culture

Victor Razi:

we go.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

we're putting

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. It seems like you've added your own personal flair to the residency program and it definitely, I could be wrong, but it seems to me just based off for those of y'all who can't see him, he looks like he's younger than me.

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir:

you're killing it at a stage so early in your career, it seems to already be program director at, quite frankly, one of the top OMS programs. In the nation.

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Saad Alamgir:

that is awesome.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I, like I said, I enjoy it. I love it. Um, it was when I was 20, I looked like I was 12, so that wasn't so good. But as I get into my forties, looking Is a

Victor Razi:

For sure. So

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Still nice when my patients ask me how old I

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

are you old enough to

Victor Razi:

yeah, keeps you motivated. So a little bit about the residency what would you say, makes Parkland special in comparison, every residency has something special that They get to offer residents and in your opinion, what do you think Parkland offers residents that they can look back at and be like I really am glad that I decided to go to Parkland.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Other than they get to hang out with me. For

Saad Alamgir:

That's a big

Victor Razi:

There we go. Yeah,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

You may or may not know this, but my nickname is Triple D, for the Deadbone Doctor of Dallas. So you get to hang out with the deadbone doctor of Dallas for

Victor Razi:

no, I didn't know that

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Other than that I think our program was started in 1952. And in 1952, very shortly after, it was one of the busiest programs in the country. It was a hospital based program where we do a lot of operating room cases. And the culture was set. At that point of what Parkland was going to be, and since that time, Parkland has been a top tier oral surgery program every

Victor Razi:

for sure. For sure. That's insane. Indeed. For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Of oral surgery was R. V. Walker, the 1st lengthy chair. So one chair, then Doug Sin became the chair and he was a Parkland grad. Two chairs, then John Zuniga became the chair and just three years ago, Raleigh Philbert became the chair. So since 1952, we've had

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

of oral surgery, all who kind of, drank the same water of Parkland and believe in the same mission. So this consistency over many years has also created what I think is one of the greatest strengths of our program, and that's our alumni base. We've taken a lot of residents for many years. We have over 300 alumni and they disperse all around the country. Cause we really don't take many people from Texas. We would take people from all over the place then they tend to go back to where they came from. And so when you finish the program, you have 300 alumni. we take five residents a year in a six year program, plus a bunch of non cats, and I calculated it out once, and you end up meeting like 70 people who are going to become oral surgeons while you're a resident here, plus all those alumni. You have this huge network. It's like the biggest family you can imagine, where you can call any of them ask them for help. Ask them if they're hiring, ask them to, if they lecture for Strauman or Nobel to get you on the speaker circuit, if that's something you want to do, because someone has to introduce you to these things, if you want to be the world famous zygoma implant person. You're going to need someone to help you get into that And there's a Parkland oral surgeon doing everything. There are more program chairs, department directors, and board examiners from Parkland than any other program. Part of it is we're big. Part of it is that's the culture that RV Walker started back in 1952.

Victor Razi:

right,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And it's just been a consistent. Tower house year after year, and I don't see that ever changing. It's been that way for quite a while,

Victor Razi:

sure,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

years. So I think that's one of our biggest

Saad Alamgir:

yeah, so let's switch gears here a little bit. So now we know about the program, say you're a fourth year dental student taking the CBSE, killed it. What does, Parkland look for in an ideal OMS, OMFS potential resident.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I'll do the on paper stuff and then the

Victor Razi:

yeah, it's a good way to put it,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So on paper. You have to have a CBSE score that is the passing equivalent of step one. That way I know when you come here and I send you to medical school for a little bit, problems with step one, no problems with step two. You're going to fly through it, and move on. Because the medical school reports all that data. That's part of a quality metric for medical schools. And so we can't have oral surgeons pulling down That doesn't work. They'll kick us out of the medical school. There's no rule that

Victor Razi:

right,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

there. They'll just say, no more oral

Victor Razi:

see you later,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

suck. We gotta have some academic standard that I know, or I can trust, you're gonna pass step one, and pass step two and move on. Yeah, we look at if you've got grades in medical school, we look or a dental school. Of course, we're going to take that into consideration. Class rank plays a role, last year, 44 percent of our applicants had no grades or class ranks just here. We are, so it can help you or hurt you Regard. Undergrad stuff is, eh, we look at it. It's part of your body of work that tells us who you are and who you've been through this whole pathway. Who were always at the top tend to stay at the top. People who have been a roller coaster I don't know if you're going to be on the down or the up when you come to Parkland. It's easier to look at that trajectory when it's always been high. There are, medical school does not determine if you can interview or if you can come to our program. But there are some oral surgeon programs where that's true. The medical school can veto you and they're looking at your undergrad

Victor Razi:

Good.

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

they don't care about dental school. They're comparing you to their incoming medical school

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

That's the

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

If you don't hold up to their medical school class. You might get vetoed and the program then can't

Victor Razi:

for sure,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And there are programs where that's the situation. And then, the things I mentioned, you got to check all those boxes. So I tell everyone, your CV, every line on your CV is worth one point and you got to get as many points as

Victor Razi:

that's it,

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So you want to have lots of lines on your CV, Things, research experience is just that it's experience. It's not publications. It's not, world changing research, It's

Victor Razi:

right.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So get some and put it on there do some community service, do some externships. We all want people who've done externships because the idea is then you know what

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

and I love people who've done externships at Parkland

Victor Razi:

Sweet.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

because then I know that you know

Saad Alamgir:

to expect.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

our Right? You know what call is like, you know that you're going to work your You're going to stay in house, you're going to be in the hospital a lot. And if that's For you, then apply and come to Not for you. Go somewhere else. It doesn't

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

But don't waste my time or your time. That's why it's great to do externships and programs you're interested

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

You can rule'em Get an idea of what's out there. And then we look at your letters of recommendation. Ideally, they're from oral surgeons.'cause we think oral surgeons know what it takes to be a

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I'm not sure that's even true, but. That way, if you have someone who knows your personality characteristics, like he was, really generous in clinic, he shared his cases with his dental students, he had this really difficult patient and he showed empathy and this

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

That's not something I can pull out of your CV. So those are good letters to have if you have that person and then it's off paper stuff. So when you come here for an externship, all the residents give me feedback on our externs. I meet with all the externs for quite a long time to. It's not really an interview, but it's a way for us to get to Other, to see if you like the culture, if you're going to fit in here, if we're right For you. And then, I want people who are as excited about oral surgery as I am. Those are the people I want to come here. Who, there is no amount operating room surgery I could have them do that they would get

Victor Razi:

For sure. For

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

They would just, they're like, Dr. Schlete, I'm hungry for more. I just love this surgery. And I think of it this way, no matter what you go into when you're done, you may decide all you're going to do is rhinoplasty and you're just going to do only nose jobs 24 seven after you leave Parkland, that's fine. Or you're going to do only wisdom teeth.

Victor Razi:

sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

We're going to give you the tools to I want you to be the best at what you do, number one. But number two, isn't it cool be at a residency program where you get to do rhinoplasties, where you get to do craniofacial surgery, and where you get to do cancer surgery, and where you get to do orthognathic surgery and a And For the rest of your life, you'll have those experiences.

Victor Razi:

sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And you may decide that cosmetic surgery, not For you. You did it. You did some facelifts, did some brow lifts. Yeah, it was great. It was fun while you were doing it. You really enjoyed the surgery, but that's

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

but you got to I don't know. To me,

Victor Razi:

experience.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

want people who are excited like that.

Saad Alamgir:

Sweet.

Victor Razi:

The typical residents know what they're getting into? is it pretty busy their first few years and then tapers off towards the end of their residency or. Busy throughout it all,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah. So the way our program is structured, they're with us the first year and then with us. Like full The fifth and sixth year and then medical school and general surgery is in the middle.

Victor Razi:

I say,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

General surgery is busy. You work 80 hours a week. You'll do night float and When you are an intern on oral surgery, you take in house call. you're on call, you stay in the hospital. You don't go home. May not appreciate what it means, but my residents will get 18, 20 consults.

Victor Razi:

right,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

When I was a resident at the University of Illinois Chicago, I took home call, where I got to go home and sleep every day. I might get called four times and my residents get 20 calls a single shift.

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

just insanely Parkland ER is the busiest emergency room in the country. And then we also cover children's hospital, which is the busiest children's ER in the

Victor Razi:

that's wild,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And we cover JPS hospital, which is the fourth busiest ER in the country. And what that means is interns are really

Victor Razi:

right,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

because it rolls Sorry for my language. Okay. And for every, good mandible fracture that we get to do, take to the OR and repair that mandible fracture, we're all excited about it. are 10. abscesses and lacerations and tooth pain consults that the intern has to

Victor Razi:

right,

Saad Alamgir:

That's sweet. Yeah. They never, have a shortage of patients. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

The busier you are, the busier

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

And so intern is very busy. And then when they come full circle, now they're done with general surgery medical school and they're with us for 24 months straight and fifth and sixth year, it's

Victor Razi:

for sure.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

It's very busy as a chief and a fifth year. Cause we have Do you guys know what block time

Victor Razi:

I've heard of it, but I don't know what it means,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So block time is where the hospital says, all right, this is your eight hours to

Victor Razi:

I say,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

like you get these eight hours and this is on your day's Monday. In our entire program, we have 15 days, every five days,

Saad Alamgir:

Wow.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

which means every day there are three operating rooms running simultaneously cases

Victor Razi:

wow,

Saad Alamgir:

That.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

the chiefs are always operating, the fifth years are always operating or in clinic. They're like going this way and that way they're all over the place. And I love operating. I love to be busy. I don't like being idle and so that's what the program takes on a little bit, but Parkland is already, it's always been busy. I just try to make it busier. Just a

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. Definitely. And

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

we've got clinic going while the OR is going. So you might be in clinic one day and the OR the

Victor Razi:

right.

Saad Alamgir:

yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

So it's hard to say what a week is

Saad Alamgir:

yeah. So Much going If you're going to do a residency program, you're going to want to stay busy in my opinion, see all the things you can. You got four, six years to learn all the things that you're going to have to one day

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir:

through. Why not see that bunch of times a week, no matter

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I

Saad Alamgir:

how

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

hundred percent.

Saad Alamgir:

It'll only help in the longterm is the way I see it. And it's great that being in Dallas, you get to see a whole bunch of different cases. Y'all definitely aren't in a shortage of patients, which is. very useful.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Yeah. Dallas is a, it's nice to be, it's a growing

Saad Alamgir:

Oh yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I love it in Dallas. I didn't know if I would like

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

I'd never really been Love it in Dallas. I'm never going

Victor Razi:

for sure,

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

north.

Saad Alamgir:

So Dr. Schlevie thank you all. Thank you for joining us. And I was just wondering if you had any mentors you could shout out or any last minute advice for maybe a potential dental student listening to this or something to look forward to.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Sure. Always, a lot of dental students will email me or reach out to me for advice, and I'm always happy to serve as a mentor. A lot of the externs we keep in touch with the dental students. My mentors, of course, Dr Maloro, the program at the University of Chicago. I encourage everyone to go extern at that program as well. It's a little bit of a different layer than we have, but it's a fantastic program and he's a. Him and Dr. Carlson and Dr. Kolakidis are, they mentored me and they put me where I am today. Everything I have, I owe to them. and so they are obviously great mentors and I encourage everyone to go. Hang out with those individuals. I always like to say to the residents, just do the appropriate thing at the appropriate time and everything will work out. So will be my departing words of wisdom.

Saad Alamgir:

Sweet. Dr. Schlevie, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure. And I think we both learned a lot and it was. It's very inspiring to hear your crazy story, honestly, just from beginning to end. Everything worked out the way it should have. And I think you're making oral surgery a better place. You're making your program stand out

Victor Razi:

Good.

Saad Alamgir:

all the other programs. So keep doing you. I look forward to seeing all the amazing things you accomplish in your career. And Thank you. again.

Dr. Thomas Schlieve:

Thank you. appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me on the podcast and hopefully get a lot of listeners on this

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, that's the goal.