Let's Talk Teeth

Founding Shared Practices and Overcoming Burnout w/ Dr. Richard Low

• Saadman Alamgir

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In this episode of Let's Talk Teeth, we are joined by Dr. Richard Low, the founder and former CEO of Shared Practices Group. Dr. Low shares his journey, from experiencing academic failures in undergrad to thriving in dental school at Midwestern University in Arizona. He discusses how he financed his education through the Army scholarship and his entrepreneurial spirit, which drove him to start a dental podcast, Shared Practices, while still serving in the Army. Dr. Low goes in to detail on his experiences with Shared Practices, both the successes and the challenges, including the stress and eventual burnout from running multiple practices. He also opens up about his personal transformation, joining a men's group for support and self-improvement, which has led him to start his own group aimed at helping dentists combat burnout and find balance in their lives. Be sure to listen in as Dr. Low shares his insights on dental practice management, mental health, and personal growth! 

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:22 Dr. Richard Low's Dental School Journey

01:06 Choosing Midwestern University

02:05 Experience with the Army Scholarship

03:05 Starting a Podcast in the Army

04:59 Buying and Managing Dental Practices

06:47 Founding Shared Practices

10:31 Metrics for Acquiring a Dental Practice

14:07 Transition to Shared Practices Group

17:23 Advice for Dental Students and Entrepreneurs

22:10 Unconventional Acquisition Models in Dentistry

23:35 Challenges of Full Arch Dentistry

24:43 Stress and Burnout in Dental Practice

27:18 Multi-Specialty Practices: Pros and Cons

29:22 Personal Journey and Mental Health

32:23 Creating a Supportive Community for Dentists

36:01 Future Vision and Advice for Dentists

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Saad Alamgir:

Everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Talk Teeth. Today we have the Dr. Richard Low. Richard, if you don't mind just introducing yourself, telling us what you're up to, where you went to dental school, what your journey is, and we can go from there.

Richard Low:

Yeah, guys. No thanks for having me on. I went to dental school, Midwestern University in Arizona. I had failed three classes in undergrad before I had decided I wanted to be a dentist. And so I applied to 13 dental schools and was like trying to get into different places. I, I was in state for Indiana which is where I went to high school. But my wife's from here, there was a lot of good reasons to go here, but they were like, you know what the dental school's gonna be under construction, like kind of the whole time you're here. But it'll be really nice afterwards. And so I was like I don't know if I want to go in state

Victor Razi:

Right.

Richard Low:

even though it'd be a lot cheaper, but I did the Army scholarship to pay for dental school, so I was like, I can go wherever I want to go. They're picking up the bill. And I really liked Midwestern. It was just a brand shiny new school. They were like nice to the students. The students were happy. I was like, this is confusing. I thought.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, that's juxtaposition right

Richard Low:

Yeah, I was like, I thought you were supposed to be miserable. Ended up getting in there and went to Midwestern in Arizona. There's two Midwesterns, the Illinois one and the Arizona one. And loved it. It was pretty awesome.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, so it's funny you mentioned the construction thing because our school just announced, we're in our second year now. They just broke ground on an extension of our dental And they're gonna start construction this summer, and they're gonna, they're claiming that it's gonna be done within the next year, but we're just gonna get, like you said, like the worst of it, just construction for the next two years, and then it'll be really

Richard Low:

The, the funny thing is that it turns out they didn't even start construction until I would've graduated. So like the fact they were saying that at my interview deterred me, but then like in the end, it

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

to even start.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. It's always like that. So how was your experience with the HPSP program? The Army scholarship?

Richard Low:

loved it. The funny thing is that like I've always been an entrepreneur, like since I was a kid, I would buy Otter Pops like the popsicles and freeze them and sell'em for a quarter each. My buddies would be like riding their bikes around the neighborhood, drumming up business. I had a paper route I through, through high school and all through undergrad. It was more being scared of the debt and I. I didn't mind I was like, I wanna serve. I believe in serving in our country. I'm willing to go travel. Maybe we'll do something cool go to Europe.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

was married, I got married in undergrad and so we were making this decision together. It was like, am I gonna get deployed or anything? I didn't get deployed, also didn't go anywhere. Cool. We were in Fort Hood, Texas and then Oklahoma, and then a little bit of Indiana actually. But, it was great. I did a two year A EGD residency. Learned a ton, did a ton of implants, did like pretty much every specialty. Got to learn endo with a scope. And ironically started a podcast while I was still in the Army about practice ownership, which seems

Saad Alamgir:

Nice.

Richard Low:

It is a little weird. Because I couldn't own a dental practice, but I was like I'm stuck in the army for five years. I might as well podcast about practice ownership. So once I get out, then maybe I'll know what I'm doing. I won't be behind by five years.

Victor Razi:

Sense.

Richard Low:

what I know now, if you buy correctly, the right practice and grow it intelligently. You can grow an$800,000 practice to 1.52 million plus. And you can do that in a relatively short period of time if you buy the right practice. It's like. That won't happen for a lot of people, but I've just seen it done enough in our like 700 episodes of podcasting, all of our coaching clients. So like looking back, it probably financially, I actually would've gotten ahead if I had gotten straight outta dental school, found the right practice, bought the right practice within a year or two, and then grown That over four years rather than doing six years in the army.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

I also wouldn't have been stuck in the army and I wouldn't have started the podcast. I wouldn't have started shared practices. Everything happens for a reason. Everyone's got their own journey and I don't particularly regret it in retrospect.

Victor Razi:

For sure. Yeah, that's a neat story too. Just you transitioned from HPSP and being in the Army to like what you do today. So after you served in your four years of the scholarship what did you do like immediately after? Were you working

Richard Low:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

up?

Richard Low:

And so because of the two year A EGD in the Army I was in for six years total, and

Victor Razi:

I see it.

Richard Low:

The podcast I started one year after graduation, you guys are ahead of the curve. You guys are starting the podcast in dental school. But I started at one year after graduating, and by the time I got out. I had done some weird things. I bought three practices when we moved to Indiana. While I was still in the Army. They all had doctors in them. I had to buy'em with some partners. Don't recommend that. You can't usually buy practices when you're in the military.

Saad Alamgir:

That's unreal.

Richard Low:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

I was gonna ask is that something that like the military can help you fund or is it through like a bank? No,

Richard Low:

and in fact the problem was, I told, the practices were healthy practices, they were profitable. There was three doctors who were gonna stick around past the purchase. And so that was the only reason it worked.'cause I couldn't work full-time in them. But the banks were like, I. You don't know what you're doing. You haven't bought any practices and you don't have a bunch of money saved up. This is, it was$2.7 million purchase price. They're like, this is way above what we would lend to someone their first time around. So like I was just a bundle of red flags to the bank. The banks wanted nothing to do with me. So I had to get partners. So I had partners that were 50, 50 partners on all three of those practices. And ran those through Covid realized that while I was still in the Army and still podcasting for shared practices And I realized really quick, it's stressful to have three offices because you've got triple the assistants and hygienists and

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

plus now doctor drama.

Saad Alamgir:

Man,

Richard Low:

time I,

Saad Alamgir:

that's probably the worst part.

Richard Low:

yeah, doctors are hard to employ, I'm not gonna lie.

Victor Razi:

I could imagine.

Richard Low:

Everyone complains about hygienists, but it's like you got a drama queen doctor, and life gets really difficult, really quick. And

Victor Razi:

imagine.

Richard Low:

yeah. So I ended up walking away actually from those three. I was like, Hey guys, I, this isn't for me. We tried all these different things, like how can we work this out? And in the end it was like. Here cancel out my debt and my equity and they refinanced me off the loan. And in the meantime, we started a consulting company. We turned the podcast, turned into a coaching and consulting company where we helped people buy their first dental practice and then grow it. And we got really good at growing from like one to two to three doctors. That became something we figured out the formula for. So that all I had friends that bought dental practices while I, before even I bought these three and grew them and made a ton more money while I was still podcasting about like they were taking the information from the podcast and applying it. I had a friend who I. It was these three te, like two texts a year apart. He texted me, this is like one of my best buddies from undergrad Scott Smith, and he's been on the podcast several times. He's dude, thank you so much because I've shared practices. I bought my first practice and I've, I paid more in taxes this year than I made as an associate last year. Which is a good thing. It's like made so much money that he was paying so much taxes than it was much more than he'd even made as an associate. And then a year later he texted me, he was like, dude, I'm a millionaire now because of shared practice, shared practices. And in the meantime I'm still like in the army and I'm still like

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, just making podcasts. Yeah. That

Richard Low:

just talking about it.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. So for those of the listeners who aren't familiar with shared practices or the podcast or what y'all do you mind just

Richard Low:

Sure.

Saad Alamgir:

explaining what shared practices is, how y'all help doctors, what y'all's podcast is about, and just giving us a little overview of it.

Richard Low:

Yeah. When I started the podcast, the number one goal was like. How do I help people buy their first practice and do it right and not buy a lemon? Because there's like the practice you buy is this massive inflection point. If someone buys the wrong practice and they overpay for it, all of a sudden they're like upside down on it. They're super stressed. They have to grind it out to try and even make it profitable. And some practices have a really hard ceiling on it because it's like you buy a three op practice, you can never grow that to a million and a half to a$2 million practice. There's just not enough space.

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

so that decision of where to buy, that was my original goal with the podcast. We did over 700 episodes on the original podcast feed. And you can still find all of it if you go to. Search for shared practices archive. There's a whole separate feed that pops up is all of our original episodes. So we, we do have, seminars, we do these two day courses. We've got one for pre owners, for like dental students, young dentists who they're like I'm intimidated. I don't know where to even start. I don't know how to like, look at practices, what to buy. And we give them the tools to find the diamond in the rough, which is the practice that's like ready to grow. So it's like that practice that you can walk into and within six months, 12 months, like 30, 40, 60% growth of that practice. And then we help people. We actually do the due diligence. We now have due diligence services where we'll look at all of, we'll pull all the data, all the financials help you with the attorney staff, and then we coach practices. So we've got coaches that coach one-on-one. So that's been really fun'cause it's been cool on the podcast we've

Victor Razi:

for

Richard Low:

Had people on that used our buyer's rep, they coached with us for a year, and then we get to have the podcast interview after that point and hear their whole journey buying their first practice for the first time and like what they were scared about before they bought in the middle of it, growing it, and now where it's at and where they're going today. So it's really cool to see that all evolve in front of our eyes.

Victor Razi:

Yeah, that is super sweet and like applicable to anyone who's getting out and interested in purchasing a practice. Richard, what just in general terms, like what is y'all's like top metric in like finding a practice or an acquisition and determining if that practice is worth acquiring? Is it like bottom line that you'll typically approach the situation, or is it like total revenue

Richard Low:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

What are some metrics that y'all in particular appreciate that would determine if a practice is worth acquisition or

Richard Low:

Yeah, this, this is why we do a two day seminar on that very question.

Victor Razi:

For

Richard Low:

But if we were to boil it down, there's a couple layers. The first is just like. Profitability if a practice isn't profitable. Now, that's the nice part about acquiring a practice. You walk into making more money than you would've made as an associate just by buying it, doing the same thing the last guy did or the last gal did. You just walk in?

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

You've got an asset. So is the practice currently profitable? Number one. Number two, the patient base. Does this practice have a lot of patients you could quickly reactivate? Is there a lot of recurring hygiene patients in that practice? How many hygienists does the practice have

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

versus how much dentistry is the doctor doing? Because if you see a practice with 400, 600, 700 active patients, which is not a lot for one doctor, but the doctor is like doing like a million and a half of production, which I've seen recently. That's actually a big red flag because they're doing like crowns on every tooth. They're like squeezing every little drop of dentistry outta that patient base.

Victor Razi:

and stuff.

Richard Low:

Yeah. You walk in and all the dentistry's been done. The patients don't really trust you'cause you're the new guy. It's like driving a new car off the lot and it instantly depreciates.

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

so how much dentistry versus how much hygiene there is a really important factor to look at. So profitability, I. Patient base, how quickly we could easily grow the patient base which has to do with a lot of different things. And then that ratio of can you reproduce the dentistry that's being done here or can you even add things versus I looked at a$1.9 million practice to buy as I was getting outta the army and, the doctor was doing like everything. He had like multiple CEC machines. He was doing implants, he was doing like veneers, doing all the procedures. He had another doc there part-time, all the latest toys in technology, And I was, and he a high producer, fast. His case acceptance was good. I was like, there's no way I can do what this guy does. There's no room for growth. He's, he was asking$1.9 million if I buy this practice. I can't keep up. And so it was like, man, I'm not gonna buy this practice. Versus I also don't love buying a practice that's too small. Like a 200,$300,000 practice. If you know what you're doing, you can find a diamond in a rough that you're like. We could get this to 800 k to a million pretty quick. And then there's the runway to grow this up to 1.5 to 2 million. But a lot of those have hard ceilings in terms of the space. Usually the same factors that led them to be a small practice are gonna be there afterwards. So if it's. Competition area the population of dentistry shows great. There's a chance that like you're not the magic ingredient that's gonna turn everything around and you are some of the same barriers that they had to growth.

Victor Razi:

right.

Saad Alamgir:

No, that makes sense. Richard, I know that do a lot of the coaching too, but we've also had a couple of shared practices doctors on our podcast with the Denon and playing group. So when did y'all decide to go from, podcasting to coaching, to starting y'all's own shared practices dental

Richard Low:

A group. Yeah. So that, that same story that I was talking about, about, about those three practices that I bought, this was, we started the coaching in like 2018. We started the seminars and the coaching and then, I bought those practices in 2019 and then ran them through Covid and I walked away in 2020 in, in 2020 kind of late summer covid. And then, the following year, I officially got outta the Army and I bought a denture practice here in Indianapolis that wasn't doing any implants, added implants to it. And in the meantime, my partners George and Austin, they were doing three, they did three startups in Phoenix that were denture implant practices. And we realized this model, there's something here. It's a little bit more complex than and higher risk than.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

A GP practice because there's no recurring patients. Patients don't get all their teeth pulled twice. They get, you get one shot and then there's no recurring patient base at that point. They're not, there's no more procedures to do. You've done'em all. So it's a harder model because you gotta be willing to put a lot of money into marketing. You gotta know how to have a practice that's not centered around hygiene. We were like, maybe we should do this together. The funny part, it was like right after I walked away from those three practices and I was like, no, screw this. I'm not doing multi-practice. George was like, Richard, I think we're gonna do a group. I was like, freak, come on. I just walked away from this. What are we doing? So that's where it started. And, it was a pretty in incredible journey. A lot of great doctors that came on board. A lot of growth for me and my co-founders. And, we started, I. 10 offices our first year and then 20 offices our second year, which is insane. I've never heard of a

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

DO adding that many offices. And honestly, the stress of it broke me. Like I had to step down as CEO I was not coping well because there's just a lot of pressure. It's a lot of, it's a lot of debt, a lot of things that can go wrong. I was the CEO of 35 offices and I was like, what am I doing? And I felt like I was the one getting in the way. Of the success of SPG. And so I turned it over to Dr. Alex Sharp, who is much more confident and knew what he was doing in terms of leadership, having run his own very large prac, multi-doctor practice on his own. And then there's some people that just have that like discipline and that like self-starter and I don't know. I'm more the like a DHD guy over here. So I'm good on podcasts, I'm good on meetings, but like asking to run a bunch of projects and run startups and do a bunch of behind the scenes stuff and I fall apart and so I. That, Was my side of it. You asked my partners, you're gonna hear very different stories. But it was because of the experience has been, very different for all of us. It's been incredible journey and I've stepped back completely. So I'm now just back to podcasting. I was like, this is what I started off doing.

Saad Alamgir:

Doing what you love, man. That's awesome.

Richard Low:

exactly. It's important I think, in dentistry to know. Sweet spot. There's this spectrum of clinician to entrepreneur and some people are like, man, I just love clinical. I don't ever really wanna think about the business stuff. I just wanna show up. Do my dentistry, go home. And if you know that about yourself, don't force yourself to own. Don't beat yourself up if you're not doing some crazy dental multi-practice thing. It, find a great office with a great team, a great owner, and just do the dentistry and go home, make good money and be a dentist. And then on the other side of it, if you're entrepreneurial, the question is how entrepreneurial are you? And my hypothesis,

Victor Razi:

a tall ceiling right

Richard Low:

it is you can do so much. But what I push people to is before you do multi-practice. Like a crazy person, build one large, profitable, healthy office that almost doesn't even need you to run. It's so well run that you could take off for a month and nothing would really break. You've trained an office manager and a team, you've got multiple doctors, and my hypothesis is that one practice like that will provide you more money. More fulfillment, more problems than you could ask for. And you're like, you know what? I'm good. I have lots of options. I can live a lifestyle that I want to, and then go build another type business that's not dentistry, or go invest in stuff or go do cha charity. Go work on the other aspects of your life rather than just continuing to scale because

Victor Razi:

For sure.

Richard Low:

you can make a million dollars a year owning one large, healthy practice. Okay.

Victor Razi:

Right.

Richard Low:

This, it's not common. The hard part about podcasts is that you hear these numbers and we throw them around like it's no big deal. But 95% of dentists will never see those kinds of numbers in a dental practice. But if you know what you're doing as an entrepreneur, there really is incredible opportunities open to you. I was the dental student who like, just was so hungry for this information. And we'll go and like lecture at dental schools and there's a huge difference between when we do a lecture with ASDA students versus if they've got like a business club. The people who show up to the business club like lunch and learns that we do

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

are just like on it, and they're like thinking about all this stuff and the Asda, like general.

Victor Razi:

It's just everyone,

Richard Low:

everyone. They're just there for the pizza. They don't have any questions like the lecture's over. I'm like, okay, what do you guys think? What are you worried about? And they're like, we're good. Thanks for the pizza. Thanks for the book. Bye.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

I'm like, guys, like I know. I know you have a lot going on right now, but if you just start listening to a like podcast about this kind of stuff, just plant that

Victor Razi:

Right.

Richard Low:

let it trickle in. Then by the time you graduate, you're not so intimidated even thinking about this stuff. You can start to look at the practice that you knew back home and think about, okay was that a good practice or not? Talk to the owner. How many hygienists did that practice have? Have to do anything with it, just start learning. There's so much information and I'm just, I'm a little biased here, but that's my pet peeve is I.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, when they just show up for the pizza.

Richard Low:

Better not showing up for the pizza, like maybe this is the seed that will get'em going, but there's so much free, good information out there that just didn't used to exist.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. Just as a consumer. Richard, first I just want to give you kudos for having the awareness to step down from, the, all the stuff that was going on in shared practices. It takes a lot of reflection, and realization to realize that. your best somewhere else, and that takes a lot of take. Putting your ego aside and things like that to see someone else is better fit for that. And for what it's worth, you seem to be really enjoying what you're doing podcasts and doing what you first started out to do. So kudos to you for stepping in or I guess stepping aside to so could thrive. And then secondly, with the podcast stuff, I. I don't think me and Vic would be here if it wasn't for shared practices, if it wasn't for the full Arch podcast. Like I remember like my sophomore year of high school or college, that was all I listened to. Like it was just, it's just free information, like you said, that's out there and it's just. It's awesome to hear and hear whenever I had heard about that and Vic came up to me saying We should start a podcast. I was like, let's do it. Like shared practices has one, like they have information that I wish I had known and we try to bring information to the public that I wish I'd known at that point. So it's just full circle man. And I really do want to thank you for all the content that you've brought forward.

Richard Low:

That's really cool for you to say thank you, man. No that, that makes me really happy because like people need what you're putting out and so it's like the fact that what we said impacted you and now you're helping that next generation. That's what it's all about.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

there's a first I wanna make a connection to one of the points you made earlier, and then I'm gonna follow up with a question. the connection I wanna make is traditionally in an acquisition and exit model type of style, you kind in general seek a practice that has like. Reproducible skills within the practice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but like procedures that majority of people could handle and maybe a few specialty procedures. Which initially you were saying like, the dock that can do everything and has all the toys can, might be more difficult of an acquisition or an exit because it's just hard to reproduce. Which is really ironic because then you switch to the full arch model, which is arguably one of the hardest procedures to reproduce, and built a model around that. So I just found it really interesting that it's super untraditional to go about that acquisition slash exit model with a procedure that's like. You can't grab any guy off the street that's a dentist and say, Hey, come do digital workflow, full arch dentistry, and do the prosthesis, and that, it's just, it's very different than the traditional practice model or a business model for a dentist. So I think that's interesting how you took a twist on how you did things with that.

Richard Low:

It is almost, this is, and this is where like. WW we almost got bored with GP dentistry. It's like we figured that out and we saw this opportunity that it's like a new puzzle. Like how do we figure out this puzzle and make it really good for the doctors, for the patients to really build that. That culture that like, it's easier to do in one office. It's still hard. It's much, much harder to scale culture across an organization'cause there's more people that could be unhappy with you at any given moment A stressor for me. I'm a people pleaser, I'm a perfectionist and nothing about running A DSO is perfect and nothing about running A DSO makes everyone happy. There's always someone upset.

Victor Razi:

Right.

Richard Low:

But yeah, no, it is ironic and it is funny that we would say this over here and then we're like we're gonna go try this. It's a hard model and I really would, I would warn doctors who don't have a foundation, like a GP foundation under them and a surgical foundation before attempting something like this. And we.

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

Our goal is to give them that like space and those wings to really bloom into that model. It's also really stressful. I, I did two years of full arch dentistry and it's about 50 50. Are you the doctor who takes home? Clinical stress and like it's a pit in your stomach when a patient's not happy or can you just disconnect. It's here's what I do a great job.

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

they're not gonna be happy. I'm okay with that. And you don't know ahead of time. I didn't think I was a worrier, but like I worried about all the possibilities with, the clinical dentistry with everything else that goes on. The possible complications, patients being upset. It's hard and you almost, there's like a switching point you have to get through six to 12 months of being really stressed and miserable doing full art dentistry. It's just the reality, like you're gonna, you're gonna be like dying a little bit at the end of every day.

Victor Razi:

Can imagine.

Richard Low:

and then there's like a day where it, all of a sudden you're like. Something goes wrong, like a buckle plate blows out. Like the bone is way mushier and a part of you is just huh, okay, let's see how we can make this work today that like you've seen enough crap happen, you've saved enough cases and there's still cases that no matter what you do, I. They just were unpredictably bad. Like you. You did all your due diligence upfront. You

Victor Razi:

sure.

Richard Low:

that here were the challenges. Some of those you can thread the needle and you can still deliver a great result. And once in a while, one of'em will surprise you and you just have to give patients the bad news of Hey, this, this didn't work the way that I was hoping it would work the first time. Here's the journey in front of you to get to that point. But that can be really devastating for the patient for you.'cause it's like you do everything you can, you want to take care of them so well. And they don't have the bone. The bone is too soft. I've got health compromises you didn't know about.'Cause they didn't even know about it. But anyways it's. It's hard dentistry to do and I just like, I worried on our podcast that we would glorify a multi-doctor practice where most doctors are probably gonna just do a single doctor practice, and that's okay. I worry that like sometimes the full arch space gets glorified and people feel like that's the pinnacle of dentistry. That's where they should be going. And they're all excited about it. And like I know if either one of you is like into that kind of stuff right now, you're like, nah I'm gonna be good Richard. I still want it. And then I'm like, all right let's talk in three years. We'll see in four years, we'll see what you guys have to say then.

Victor Razi:

I can imagine the stresses, especially if

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

paying 50 grand for a procedure and

Richard Low:

Yeah,

Victor Razi:

doesn't go their way. It's not quite a car,

Richard Low:

it's a car in their mouth.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

yeah. Richard, have you ever considered like a multi-specialty practice? I know in general terms, GPS can do multi-specialty within their practice, but, I guess I mean it more so like a practice that has multiple diverse doctors within one practice. I know Craig SPO does that with his practice. Down in Florida. But is that something you've ever considered in your entrepreneurial journey throughout all this, Or you work with

Richard Low:

yeah, so it can work. You need a big enough practice to support it and you probably couldn't do them full time unless you had a mega practice. Because what's gonna happen is say that you have an orthodontist sitting in your office, other gps are not gonna wanna refer to that orthodontist. If they're, it's attached to a GP office'cause they're worried they're gonna lose that patient to your practice. The patient's this place looks sweet, I'm sticking around. So patients are doctors are not going to refer to specialists within that practice. So that may means that you either have to have. A large enough practice to support that specialist full-time, or you just have the specialist part-time, or you've got one large practice and some satellite practices and all of it refer to that main office. But here's the thing. It all works. Dude. I, and at this point, like you guys are playing the game. I know exactly what's going on in your heads. You're like, what if. What if we did this? What about have they thought about this? And it's dude, there's so many ways to do dentistry. You can be a successful if you follow the principles of correct entrepreneurship.

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

You can do all sorts of crap and it can work really well and it can be profitable. And so you're like, yeah, I want an office where I've got a little bit of all the specialists they all come in a day or two a week. And there's gonna be great things about that. There's gonna be some crappy things about that. You gotta manage those specialists and find chill ones and replace them when they turn over. And so yeah, Craig's doing it. Other people can do it. You guys can do it if you want to, but

Victor Razi:

I see.

Richard Low:

it would work.

Victor Razi:

Yeah,

Saad Alamgir:

Find a way to make it work.

Richard Low:

Totally.

Victor Razi:

for It happens. So Richard, what are you up to? Like right now, you're just doing podcast and that's it, or any clinical

Richard Low:

Yeah great question. I, when I burned out, I stepped down as CEO and then I stepped into the clinical director role and which meant that all of the problem doctors were on my plate. And it's crazy. You can have, I. If you've got 35 doctors, 30 of them, 32 of them are just amazing people, amazing doctors. You'll get two or three of'em that make everyone's lives miserable. They're just like toxic people. Like just making, saying things to team members and patients that you're just like, ah, you're not allowed to say that to other human beings, and like manipulative and secretive and all these things. And. So those were the doctors that I dealt with because I was good at having crucial conversations. And so I fully crashed and burned March of last year, just over a year ago. And I was like, I need two months of like unpaid medical leave. I gotta figure out my mental health. I gotta figure out my marriage. Like full stop. And I think part of that is like I'd had. Kind of multiple full-time jobs for eight years. And in my family, we've had to make sacrifices to do shared practices on top of army, on top of multi-practice.

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

And so I needed to reprioritize like the stuff that really mattered to me. Get diagnosed with the right stuff and get on the right meds and try and be happy again.'cause I've, I'd lost figuring out how to be happy. And ironically, the thing that. Helped the most was a men's group I joined called Superhuman Fathers. It was a ridiculous name. I went to a dental conference and Emmett Scott, who's the CEO of Dental Entrepreneur Organization, DEO, they're kinda like a multi-practice shared practices, but now they're helping individual practices as well.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

he shared his transformation. He showed a before and after picture. He was like two 80 280 pounds, and he dropped down to I. 2 10, 2 20. I think he lost like 70, 70 pounds.

Victor Razi:

Oh

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

and just he had a six pack for like the first time in his life, his whole adult life. He'd just been like a big soft teddy bear dad.

Victor Razi:

Right.

Richard Low:

and I was like, dying. And he was like, this group, superhuman Fathers, they helped me get in shape, helped me reconnect with my wife. They helped me, feel better about myself, more confident, all these things.

Victor Razi:

That's awesome.

Richard Low:

I was like, dude, I want that. Shut up and take my money. I don't know what this thing costs. I don't know what I'm signing up for. I swiped my credit card so fast and joined up. And then after I paid for it, I was like, so what is it? What do I have to do? Do I have to go to the gym? Turns out, yes, I had to go to the gym. It was this insane group of men who really cared about each other and actually talked about the real crap that's like. Eating them up.

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

Most guys get together. They talk about sports, they talk about video games. They talk about anything other than actually their problems. Because that's why we hang out. We don't wanna think about our problems, we don't wanna think about our stressors. We just wanna like

Victor Razi:

Sure.

Richard Low:

chill. Just watch the game. Yeah.

Victor Razi:

guys.

Richard Low:

So this group for me, I lost 50 pounds. I got in the best shape of my life. Really worked on my marriage, really worked on reconnecting with faith and God and it was incredible. And my buddy Hunter, who's an endodontist in Florida, he joined up and after doing this for a couple months, he was like, Richard. You've gotta do this. But for dentistry, he was like, we need to create our own version of this. Because the Superhuman Fathers, they were like blue collar. They were pretty rough around the edges.

Victor Razi:

I see. So this wasn't just dentistry,

Richard Low:

It was not dental at all. It was like, these are like firefighters and cops and ex-military and sales guys and roofers and,

Victor Razi:

Right

Richard Low:

just all walks of life. And some guys, like every other word was like the F bomb and just f this, F that. But like the kindest, like most caring oh, I eff and found Jesus. And, like they were just. Really good guys. But my buddy Hunter was like, I think we can do a more buttoned up version of this and get a bunch of dentists in here and have this amazing mastermind of dentists trying to work on themselves. And so I was like, okay, I gotta figure out something to do. I either need the bank account's gonna run out at some point I either need to buy a dental practice or start this group and make it work. And so I launched it in October. And we got 20 guys in October. We're up to about 30 right now. It's been awesome. We've lost 450 pounds since November as a group.

Victor Razi:

Nice.

Richard Low:

And just like genuine, sincere guys who are showing up for each other through the ups and downs of practice ownership through the ups and downs of marriage and raising small kids and finding fulfillment in other stuff other than being a dentist.

Victor Razi:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

And so that's my full-time gig. So now I'm trying to figure out, I gotta scale on social media. I gotta figure out how to have a pipeline of people who are interested and follow up with them and take care of the people that I'm serving right now in this group. And then I podcast for shared practices. It's funny from my men's group, whenever like we get into practice stuff, I'm like I can help you up to a certain point, but go just frigging hire a coach at shared practices like they're gonna fix your practice. Yeah like why wouldn't you get the help that you need to here? So it's fun to see I'm doing everything else over here, and then I send them over to shared practices when it comes to it.

Saad Alamgir:

For the

Richard Low:

Yeah. The business stuff. So

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

that's what I'm doing right now.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah. Dude, that's awesome that y'all first found this group and then are helping incorporate this into dentistry because I'm sure like whenever you dedicate your whole life to this one thing, it obviously overtakes. Like you put life, faith, your family like on the back burner and you focus fully on this. So again, it just takes a lot of self-awareness to realize where you are in life and being able to take a step back and join a group that's helping you and now you're passing forward and helping other people, so that really is awesome to see.

Richard Low:

Thanks, man. No. Yeah, it's the, my group is now next level fathers. So far I don't have a women's group. I don't feel like I'm a, an authority at leading a women's group, unfortunately. But yeah, if anyone's interested follow me on Instagram, Dr. Dot, Richard Low or just to watch my, like weird reels like I did a series of reels about. How video games was one of my, like coping mechanisms. Like I felt like I had a video game addiction and it affected my ability to lead and work and manage my stress. And so I did like a four-part series of reels talking about that recently. So if you just wanna see like me, make reels about crap come follow me on Instagram and maybe you wanna get shredded, like we can do that too.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah, like a deal. But Richard, you, we've mentioned shared practices in a variety of ways. We've talked about, starting off podcasting, then you know, coaching, and now we're talking about surgery and now you have your men's group. Like what is your, future vision in terms of diversifying shared practices? Because right now, y'all are branching out into all types of categories. Is there. Like goal that you're always setting out to do, or is it just helping doctors the way

Richard Low:

Yeah. I think there's two questions in there. I think one is what is shared practices as a whole gonna do? And since I've stepped down, like I'm really not in control of any of that. We're always looking to we're to help doctors in different ways and the crazy things we've almost done. We actually had a letter of intent on a, like seven story building in Georgia to buy a dental school and start a dental school at one point. Like

Saad Alamgir:

Oh my

Richard Low:

we got way further down that road than we ever thought we would. We've thought about, we tried doing like a little bit of a marketing firm within shared practices. We have legal now, so we've got attorneys within shared practices that can help people.

Saad Alamgir:

Nice.

Richard Low:

at leases and asset purchase agreements, buy in a practice. And even current dentists who are, associateship agreements. We've done tons of that kind of stuff. We tried to do marketing and it didn't quite work out for us. I'm sure we're gonna do a bunch of other things. To be honest though, like I don't even know and it changes all the time. Operationally, I'm not in there for me personally. I want to continue to help dentists in their pain points and. It talking about entrepreneurship for nine years. It's almost like moving into a rich neighborhood and then like you isolate yourself from like, all the problems in the world.'cause you're like, you just live over here and you got your your gated community. And so that's what the shared practices, listeners and clients were. It's like these dentists who are really ambitious and really wanna go after what's possible by being a practice owner. But there's a whole ton of dentists over here who are. Struggling and like the stress, the financial stresses, the clinical stresses, the family stuff, injuries, like all these things that can go wrong. You buy the wrong practice ownership just isn't for you, and you've brought a practice.

Victor Razi:

For

Richard Low:

My goal is let's, okay, let's go figure some of these things out. And I started a Facebook group recently called next Level Dentist Rising Beyond Burnout. Because I think there's a lot of dentists that are burned out and they've got anxiety and they've got mental health stuff and it's. It's hard to like untangle. Is this like diagnosable mental health? Is this situational, is this a phase? Is this a midlife crisis? So for me, all of the stuff outside of clinical dentistry and entrepreneurship, that's the stuff I'm interested in talking about. And I. Podcasting about, and I don't have a space, like maybe there'll be a YouTube channel, maybe there'll be a podcast about this kind of stuff. But that's where I'm interested in shared practices overall. Who knows what we'll do in the next three, five years, I'm sure it'll be pretty cool.

Victor Razi:

And I think too, Richard, with all thus far you've accomplished in your career, you deserve that that fuel you get from doing the things you do now versus total entrepreneurship, cowboy activity. but as we wrap up here, Richard, what do you think you could have done differently in your career to. I don't even wanna say be more sustainable, but

Richard Low:

definitely you can say that.

Victor Razi:

Be, have a better, I don't know, just, I guess healthier and more life in your journey.'cause everybody faces struggles, which, happens to everyone. So you've got to see, you've, you're able to see both ends of it a little more clearly now that you've really recognized yourself like. Maybe it's not cool to be stressed out all the time, or this and that. So what do you think you could have done differently?

Richard Low:

Yeah, I think and this is so stereotypical, but like in, there's no reason you can't be happy today. And I think getting into dental school, getting through dental school, getting into practice ownership building, to a certain point, there's this delayed, like I am sacrificing. Now for future benefit. And at a certain point you'll walk into a Walmart and realize I could buy absolutely anything in here. It's not a very high bar to clear, but for a lot of the population to just be able to buy whatever you want, off Amazon or Walmart is not a real option for people. And we clear that bar for having lots of options. You'll get there if you keep learning, if you keep growing as a dentist and you don't take really challenging opportunities, which sometimes you gotta pivot, sometimes you gotta walk away from partnership. Sometimes you gotta leave an associateship that's not providing for you. Sometimes you gotta move, get out of a city that is overpopulated with dentists, but you can be happy along the way and. Appreciate wanting something. When you don't, when you can't do the clinical dentistry that you wanna do, it's actually really exciting to learn that stuff. It's exciting to take the courses and you start to hit diminishing returns at some point where you're like, eh, if I go to a course, like 95% of everything, I'm already gonna know and I'm just going for that last 5%. Versus in the early days, you're like. Drinking from a fire hose, you're soaking it up. You love it. Same things when you're growing a business and you're like figuring things out. There is this like intensity. It's like a game that matters. It's like the score matters and there'll come a point where you don't get to have as much fun. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is just me in the figuring things out, figuring out the clinical dentistry, figuring out how to make money in dentistry, how to get ahead, and you might get to the end of all that and realize oh, this didn't make me happy. This, there was not a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I should have figured out how to be happy along the way. That's what I would tell myself and maybe do a little bit less side hustle crap and go on more walks with my wife or with the kids.

Victor Razi:

Yeah,

Richard Low:

and I still put the kids to bed every night. I tried to be balanced and all these things. But it got unbalanced and I think my wanting for something in the future led me to burnout in that way.

Victor Razi:

for sure. That's real. And sadden. I both, I could speak for him too. We appreciate you bringing light to that, especially, in dental school too.'cause dental school, this and that. There's like barely any light in that tunnel. It's, I think it's very real too for our listeners to hear that if they're applying to dental school or in dental school and maybe take a moment to realize that, it's fortunate enough to be in dental school.'cause not many people get that opportunity.

Richard Low:

A hundred percent. And I'll tell you the one thing that do not miss out on, there will never be a time in your life that you spend this much time with a friend group that's suffering in the same way you are. And like that might seem like a bad thing, but like that's where the best friendships come from is when you're doing something hard together. And so don't be a lone wolf in dental school. Find a group of people that like you can really support and help and then be miserable together. And actually that's fun. And you will be lifelong friends.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

Once you're a practice owner, you don't have that. You're the boss, you're alone. And it's hard in your social circles, in your church groups, in your neighborhood to find people that can relate to you that have the same kind of goals that are clinicians, that are entrepreneurs. And it's actually far harder to find those kinds of friends. And so I would say the friendships in particular, that's the best part of dental school is like you're suffering together, miserable together. And that's actually.

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Victor Razi:

Awesome. Richard as we last as we wrap here, do you have any last remarks you'd like to make or advice for dental students or recently grad dental students just that you've learned on your journey or anything that you would like to say to have a more prosperous career within dentistry?

Richard Low:

Like comparison is the thief of joy. And anything bad that happens to you can be turned into a good thing. Because you will always, there will be someone who makes more money. There will be someone who seems happier on Instagram. There will be someone who gets married faster, who has cuter kids, who you know, all the things you know, there are more talented and. And if you're living that world, dentists can get wrapped up in it.'cause we can do pretty good and we can look really good on a lot of fronts. Be grateful for your journey and the crap you face and turn around and use those hard things as fuel as. Opportunities to be grateful for what you do have to be grateful for. And there'll probably be someone down the road that you can help through whatever you're going through right now, someone else will benefit through those hard times. You guys are doing it live, you're doing it as a podcast, which is like a perfect way to give back as you're going through it yourself. So just keep that perspective, that like bad stuff is okay and it can turn into good stuff. Just give it enough time and look at it in the right way and work through it the best you can. It'll be good.

Victor Razi:

Awesome. Thanks for keeping it real, Richard. We we appreciate that and I know that many of our listeners will appreciate you keeping it real with them too, and. Not just sugarcoat and everything as a dentist. So yeah, man. We me and sod really appreciate you coming on and thank you for the nuggets that you provided and we look forward to connecting with you again.

Richard Low:

Awesome

Saad Alamgir:

Yeah.

Richard Low:

sod Victor. Great to meet you guys. Thank you for.

Victor Razi:

Nice to meet you man.