The Evolution of Oral Surgery Practice w/ Dr. Joe Doctora

In this week's episode of Let's Talk Teeth, we sit down with Dr. Joe Doctora, a successful oral surgeon practicing in Nashville, TN who shares his incredible journey and insights into the field of oral surgery. Dr. Doctora discusses his educational background at Meharry Medical College, his experiences with trauma and pathology during his non-categorical year at the University of Miami, and the persistence required to succeed in his specialty. He also provides valuable advice to dental students, reflects on the challenges and rewards of starting his own practice, and offers his perspective on the future landscape of dentistry. Tune in to hear Dr. Doctora's thoughts on private equity, practice management, and the evolving  landscape of the dental industry. Don't miss out on this insightful conversation!

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:42 Journey to Oral Surgery

02:06 Residency Experiences

05:50 Starting a Practice

08:02 Challenges and Growth

12:34 Current Practice and Future Plans

13:34 Adjusting Workflow with Associates

14:36 Deciding to Hire an Associate

15:24 Characteristics of an Ideal Associate

16:23 Future Plans for the Practice

17:23 Private Equity in Dentistry

22:52 Advice for New Dental Practitioners

24:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Saad Alamgir 0:09

To another episode of Let Talk. Today we have Dr. Joe. Joe, if you don't mind just introducing yourself, telling us a little about yourself, where went to school, where you're practicing,

Joe Doctora 0:24

Yeah. Thanks for having me guys. I I'm practicing in Nashville. I'm an oral surgeon trained here at Meharry Medical College. Finished a while back. originally from Michigan what brought me here was matching into residency.

Victor Razi 0:41

Nice. What, um, what kind of inspired you to go the dental field and then oral surgery?

Joe Doctora 0:47

When I, going to dental school, I really had an interest in orthodontics and as I got into dental school and looked into the specialties, I. I really thought that oral surgery was a better fit for me, just personality wise and just the work involved in oral surgery.

Victor Razi 1:05

Sure.

Joe Doctora 1:06

yeah, I, as you well know it's the epicenter for the dental school was, to me it was the oral surgery department.

Victor Razi 1:13

For sure. What, um, when you were applying, were you considering four year, six year, what was kind of on the table for you at that time?

Joe Doctora 1:19

really wanted to get out just as soon as possible. And I applied all to four year programs and didn't get in, didn't match right away. I had to do a non-Cat at ended up at the University of Miami. So

Victor Razi 1:32

okay.

Joe Doctora 1:33

was a really instrumental year. I'm not sure if much about, Miami, but it's really heavy on trauma and a lot of pathology.

Victor Razi 1:42

Sure.

Joe Doctora 1:42

It's, it's pretty rigorous. So I think that year of exposure and really prepares you for residency. Not matching right away is, think it's the end of the world. I mean at the time you think it is, but but you just really gotta, if you want it bad enough, if you wanna be an oral surgeon, bad enough for anything, it's just persistence really.

Victor Razi 2:05

For sure.

Saad Alamgir 2:06

How would you explain your, or how would you describe your experience at Mahari for oral surgery? Do you think it was a bit more trauma or was it a lot of cancer? Just how was your experience there?

Joe Doctora 2:18

So Maher, it's changed a lot since I was there. What they, a lot of the residencies based on, it's whatchamacallit, it's rotation in other hospitals. So they, during my time I spent three months at Tennessee, at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville. So that was really heavy in trauma as well. It was my fourth year, so they treated me like a chief. They gave me autonomy, did a lot of orthognatic, some cosmetics. So that's a very, yeah, and I learned that, at Miami and when I was rotating at Tennessee. The programs have a lot of rotators Meharry in and of itself is not a level one trauma center, so we have to get a lot of our requirements through affiliate programs. And,

Victor Razi 2:59

Sure.

Joe Doctora 3:00

At Miami we had rotators from the Navy and and in Knoxville

Victor Razi 3:05

Right.

Joe Doctora 3:05

Cincinnati residents come through just to make up for the deficiencies and what they may have in their program.

Victor Razi 3:12

I see.

Joe Doctora 3:12

Yeah.

Victor Razi 3:13

Um, taking it back a little bit, what made you decide on Miami for non-Cat? Or like, how does that, how does that process, I guess for non-Cat really work? Is it pretty autonomous to decide where you want to go? Is it, or is it still pretty tough to kind of like the match process?

Joe Doctora 3:29

It kinda, I pay attention to it a little bit now, so I see these Instagram posts with openings, so it's the same. The same process where, if you don't match, people are scrambling. And then programs are looking for bodies as well. I actually got into LSU and Miami and I just picked Miami. They were

Victor Razi 3:51

Okay.

Joe Doctora 3:51

really good. And they both called me after the fact and said, Hey, sorry about not matching. We've got a

Victor Razi 3:56

Sure.

Joe Doctora 3:57

And I just thought mine was a better fit for me.

Victor Razi 4:00

New Orleans versus Miami. That was your dilemma.

Joe Doctora 4:02

Exactly.

Victor Razi 4:03

Awesome. Yeah. It sounds, from what I heard, Miami Yeah, right. Is pretty trauma based. Um, it sounds like, how often were you like taking call there as a non-Cat?

Joe Doctora 4:14

gosh. They had quote rotations, what it boiled down to was 12 months of oral surgery, they would pull you from ENT, like an elective type thing and said, no, you're going back to service. And you're just really not in a position to argue, they're writing letters, recommendation, and you have to look good in their eyes. So you'd say yes or no, sir. Gosh, it, I remember I was on, it was rotation called trauma er, like the tra There was Emergency rooms at Miami, at Jackson. So the

Victor Razi 4:46

Mm-hmm.

Joe Doctora 4:47

center was the, like the unstable type traumas. That was my first rotation in July. Three months after dental school I'm seeing like gunshot wounds and you just hang out in the yard. You just see what goes in there. Like

Saad Alamgir 5:01

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 5:02

I saw suicides and things like that, so it's definitely shocking. they don't hold your hand.

Victor Razi 5:07

Right.

Joe Doctora 5:07

they just cut you loose and say, do your job. And that's kind of the, that

Victor Razi 5:10

Oh wow.

Joe Doctora 5:11

at Meharry or, at Miami, it's, it was really resident

Victor Razi 5:14

Sure.

Joe Doctora 5:14

and you just had to navigate it and figure it out yourself. Of course, but Shock for sure.

Victor Razi 5:19

A lot of autonomy. Yeah.

Saad Alamgir 5:21

Yeah.

Victor Razi 5:21

That's awesome.

Saad Alamgir 5:22

That's pretty cool. They let you I would say it's a double-edged sword. They let you cut you loose and lets you explore.'cause it's shocking, I'm sure, three months at a dental school from doing your last class, three filling to seeing a gun. You know, Just the things that you see in or an OMS, trauma center. So I'm sure that was a lot. Very different but

Joe Doctora 5:45

percent.

Saad Alamgir 5:45

transition. Yeah. Transitioning into. Of oral surgery. What kind of wanna, what kind of made you wanna stick around in Tennessee and Nashville specifically? Was there a certain group or the area?

Joe Doctora 6:01

Gosh, I it was a combination of, I like the area at the time. It was small.

Victor Razi 6:07

It's changed a lot, huh?

Joe Doctora 6:08

it's just so crowded now. Gosh, just on a side note, I was supposed to go see my dad in Michigan, Yesterday, but I missed my flight just'cause traffic was ridiculous.

Victor Razi 6:18

Oh, wow.

Saad Alamgir 6:19

crazy.

Joe Doctora 6:20

Yeah. So, so it's gotten

Victor Razi 6:21

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 6:22

it's gotten extremely popular. It's good for my property values, but traffic and things like that is, is

Victor Razi 6:28

Downhill. Yeah.

Joe Doctora 6:30

But to answer your question I liked the area and I was comfortable. And going back to Michigan just wasn't an option. I just didn't really want to do that. I considered Chicago but Nashville was good enough at the time I.

Saad Alamgir 6:42

Yeah.

Victor Razi 6:43

So you, you started working out of residency. Did you kind of work with somebody at first or did you start up your own

Joe Doctora 6:49

did.

Victor Razi 6:49

gig?

Joe Doctora 6:50

I I worked in Knoxville for a year and came back and worked with my my attending for a year. And then just ended up, back in the day we had classified ads where you would, List equipment for sale. And so I was all over that. I accumulated stuff and gosh, and a half out, I had a couple of chairs, I had some equipment instruments

Victor Razi 7:16

Oh my

Joe Doctora 7:17

just signed a lease at a pretty, like a an old dental office. It was already

Saad Alamgir 7:21

Yeah,

Victor Razi 7:22

Uhhuh.

Joe Doctora 7:22

started just ignorant and, but it worked out fine.

Victor Razi 7:26

Oh, ma,

Saad Alamgir 7:27

that's crazy.

Victor Razi 7:28

you're an animal. So did you have any like business skills or anything, or you just jumped in head first to like, how'd that work?

Joe Doctora 7:34

jumped in head first.

Victor Razi 7:36

Yeah,

Joe Doctora 7:36

you could think about it too much. I'll be honest with you. I think you can talk

Victor Razi 7:39

yeah,

Joe Doctora 7:40

talk yourself out of it. If

Victor Razi 7:42

yeah,

Joe Doctora 7:42

thinking

Victor Razi 7:42

sure.

Joe Doctora 7:43

that, I think there's a lot of opportunities these days where you can. Do your own practice for two days a week and then subsidize that

Saad Alamgir 7:51

Mm-hmm.

Joe Doctora 7:52

Aspen or other DSOs. And I think you

Saad Alamgir 7:55

Mm-hmm.

Joe Doctora 7:55

work if you pick the right area. And,

Victor Razi 7:58

Sure.

Joe Doctora 7:59

yeah and man, finding the right people as well

Victor Razi 8:02

What were, um, what were your biggest headaches, if you don't mind me asking? Like, starting out like, um. I guess clinically and on the like business side of of it,

Joe Doctora 8:13

clinically on the business side of it. I guess it would be,

Victor Razi 8:18

like getting referrals I assume was somewhat tough initially.

Joe Doctora 8:21

initially it was That you've already done and paid for that have been approved. And chasing your money really is a big, it's a big

Saad Alamgir 8:28

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 8:28

They would I envy, I somewhat envy those practices who are a hundred percent fee for service and then they get away with it. For me, I've always had the model of be a network with as many,

Victor Razi 8:38

Sure.

Joe Doctora 8:39

Insurances as possible and try to just get patients finding you way.

Saad Alamgir 8:44

Yeah.

Victor Razi 8:44

That makes sense. And then if you don't mind me asking too, what, what on the clinical end would you say it was tougher for you at first and eventually like came together?

Joe Doctora 8:57

Probably the idea in my head that I had to do and see everybody. So if somebody came in

Victor Razi 9:04

Yeah, that's a good answer.

Joe Doctora 9:06

I really felt if I don't do it, then she's gonna get mad at me, and then the referral's gonna get mad at me. And so I felt like I

Victor Razi 9:11

So just

Joe Doctora 9:12

And a lot of

Victor Razi 9:12

I say.

Joe Doctora 9:13

if you have a hesitancy to like taking a certain patient in your practice your instincts are gonna be right. And a lot of times too, you'll find that general dentists, if you're new in town, they're gonna, they're gonna test you. And the way they test you is they send you their absolute worst patient. if it goes bad they say, Hey man, what happened with X, Y, and Z? And I'll say and then it's, that's just, that's nature, then that gets better over time. You gain a reputation and those people retire and then new people come up and relationships form and

Saad Alamgir 9:46

Yeah. Yeah.

Victor Razi 9:48

sure.

Saad Alamgir 9:49

I guess my question is nowadays, how has your cases that you've seen from when you've started private practice to now changed? Do you still see the same cases, or is it gotten a bit more complex or simpler as the years have gone on?

Joe Doctora 10:04

I'd say simpler for sure. I I used, I did I used to do some orthognathic with an oral surgeon here in town. He is retired, so really wanted to get good and proficient, doing as many orthognathic as possible, and I really don't do that

Victor Razi 10:16

Sure.

Joe Doctora 10:17

I used to do a lot of contos, which I feel is a. It's a great procedure for curing TMJ. and it's a great procedure. I just don't do those anymore just'cause I'll spend day in the OR and I'll get,$700.

Victor Razi 10:34

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 10:35

So now I liked doing those procedures, but just from economics, it's, it makes no sense for me to do'em. So it's

Victor Razi 10:41

Sure.

Joe Doctora 10:42

and I'm doing the things I wanna do, which is really.

Saad Alamgir 10:47

Yeah.

Victor Razi 10:48

Yeah. So when you, I guess when you're going to talk to gps, when you first come out, are you pretty much saying like, send me whatever your way? Or are you kind of limited in your advertising too, to'em like, Hey, I'm, I'm big on wisdom teeth implants, but don't send me anything trauma related. I'm not that guy.

Joe Doctora 11:06

No, I when I meet people, I say, just send me, I say, send me

Victor Razi 11:10

Sure.

Joe Doctora 11:10

I mean, un unless

Victor Razi 11:12

Sure.

Joe Doctora 11:12

practice and they have got, orthognatic surgery. I'll make it clear. I'll say you're better off sending him to the guy down the road. He does a lot more, and that's a better fit for your patient. I don't, I think that's a better doctor to do that type procedure, but, But they'll figure it out fast. They'll send you what they feel comfortable sending you, and then the practices that fit with what you do will stick around and

Victor Razi 11:33

For

Joe Doctora 11:33

those who don't,

Victor Razi 11:34

sure.

Joe Doctora 11:35

they elsewhere. That's

Saad Alamgir 11:37

Mm-hmm.

Victor Razi 11:37

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, one thing I was thinking too, uh, Joe, is when you were starting out were you kind of weighing like competition too? Obviously a little bit, but was how big of a factor was that for you, you know.

Joe Doctora 11:51

It was a factor. So when I went there, I came in with the business model of taking a lot of, being in network with a lot of. Undesirable plans. And in the county that I'm in, I was the only one at the time who took it. So it was really, it was pretty easy to set up and be busy

Victor Razi 12:07

Sure.

Joe Doctora 12:08

And like I said, all those years ago, there was not a lot of oral surgeons in Smyrna, Tennessee where I'm now. Now I think there's 15. It's ridiculous.

Victor Razi 12:16

That's wild.

Joe Doctora 12:18

a group of six, a group of two, two. It's like a bunch of rotators people who come through. I used to worry about that, but it's like your

Victor Razi 12:29

Sure.

Joe Doctora 12:30

you regardless of what happens.

Saad Alamgir 12:32

Yeah.

Victor Razi 12:33

That's awesome.

Saad Alamgir 12:33

That's awesome. Speaking of which, how has your practice changed throughout the years? I know you had mentioned you'd bought a couple chairs and set up your dental office like that when you first started. Has it expanded since then, or are y'all still in the same place? How's the transition of it been throughout these couple of years?

Joe Doctora 12:50

I'm in a different building now. And that was a blessing in it in itself because there was a dentist who was on the main road in Smyrna and he did not want to sell to another general dentist'cause he was opening his practice.

Saad Alamgir 13:04

Uh, let's see.

Joe Doctora 13:04

So he Give it to a specialist. So I ended up being on the main road and, you've heard my name, it's pretty memorable so people remember that. And,

Saad Alamgir 13:13

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 13:13

the sign itself is good for business. So I'm in a bigger space in Smyrna and in, and I've got a satellite office in Spring Hill, which is about. miles away south of

Victor Razi 13:24

Nice.

Joe Doctora 13:25

And I've

Saad Alamgir 13:25

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 13:26

associate now had two, but I've got an associate now. So it's the same, but just a little bit different.

Victor Razi 13:33

Sure. Has your workflow pretty much stayed the same when associates have come in with you or have you laid back some? How's that been?

Joe Doctora 13:40

It's really the only, the biggest, the what I wanted to happen with that was yes, to take time off. What's happened? He's been with me two years now. So what's happened mainly is the is that I'm able to take more time off like more vacations and he covers for me. But

Victor Razi 13:57

Oh, nice.

Joe Doctora 13:58

as days per week, I'm still working five days a week. I'm one of the few who works

Victor Razi 14:02

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 14:03

It's crazy, but

Victor Razi 14:04

Is that just your, your cup of tea or just how your business model is set up to where

Joe Doctora 14:08

it

Victor Razi 14:09

most efficient for you to be there?

Joe Doctora 14:10

my decision. It's what I wanna do and I. I do, I guess to make up for it. I do take half days here and there, like this week I'm

Saad Alamgir 14:20

Mm-hmm.

Joe Doctora 14:20

days. So to me that equals one day off.

Victor Razi 14:24

Sure. Yeah, it does to me too. The math is math and.

Joe Doctora 14:27

I guess to answer your question, it's it's taken the burden off a little bit and it's good to have company.

Victor Razi 14:33

Nice.

Saad Alamgir 14:35

My

Victor Razi 14:35

is awesome.

Saad Alamgir 14:36

Yeah. Joe, my question is, when did it make sense for you to have an associate, because you mentioned you got one two years ago. Is it just with the business growing, it just made sense for you? Or was there a different reason for you to brought an associate?

Joe Doctora 14:48

I wish I would've done it years and years ago. I'll be honest with you. I just looking at some of my, the people who are oral surgeons who are looking for associates, that whole process is not something I wanted to. Involved myself in, it just seemed really competitive. And the price to pay an oral surgeon was like, was ridiculous in my opinion. So this filled my lap. One, he was moving here from California and I knew him from training. We studied for boards

Victor Razi 15:13

Sure.

Joe Doctora 15:14

and he just said, Hey, I'm relocating. I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make something for you. he's just part-time and that works. Perfect.

Saad Alamgir 15:22

Yeah.

Victor Razi 15:22

That's awesome. What did, uh, what kind of characteristic did you have in mind when. Like you were considering like an associate, like what what were you like, dang, like this is what I would really want out of someone I could work with.

Joe Doctora 15:35

That's a good question. I really wanted someone, who. Was who practiced the way I did. But at the same time,

Victor Razi 15:45

Sure.

Joe Doctora 15:46

that it's good to have somebody who Unlike the way you practice, maybe he's

Victor Razi 15:49

I've, yeah, I've read that too. Some yin and yang activity.

Joe Doctora 15:53

bring some cosmetics or cleft in to the practice and whatever. don't know. Luckily it turned out that he practices just like me.

Victor Razi 16:00

Yeah,

Joe Doctora 16:01

Adapted to the way that I

Victor Razi 16:02

sure.

Joe Doctora 16:02

my systems and assistants. They love him and it's worked out

Victor Razi 16:07

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah I guess it is nice too, where if you took off, you know that he's. Pretty well, uh, adapted with the skill sets to cover which you're, which you're missing during that time period. So that is convenient.

Saad Alamgir 16:22

Yeah.

Victor Razi 16:23

What, so you kind of grown this, uh, this business now, what, what's the future look like for you? Like, what do you, you think you're gonna stay in the same rhythm or have you pondered about some ideas?

Joe Doctora 16:34

I think I'm gonna I don't think practice-wise it's gonna change much. I almost wouldn't mind another associate. I think that would be pretty cool if the situation found me, I'm gonna take it.

Victor Razi 16:45

Sure.

Joe Doctora 16:45

are gonna learn that when you get out there. I've had a lot of people approach me to buy my practice. I think that the multiples that they're offering are pretty, they're,

Victor Razi 16:55

Undeniable.

Joe Doctora 16:56

They're attractive for sure.

Victor Razi 16:59

Sure.

Joe Doctora 17:00

haven't really bit, they've been. Persistent. Hey, we want to be in

Victor Razi 17:04

Right?

Joe Doctora 17:04

We like your practice. But I just, I think that probably is gonna factor into the equation at some point in time, but I'm just

Victor Razi 17:11

Sure.

Joe Doctora 17:11

kind of hold steady at the moment. Just keep

Victor Razi 17:13

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir 17:13

Yeah.

Victor Razi 17:14

I gotcha.

Saad Alamgir 17:15

like, I

Victor Razi 17:15

What.

Saad Alamgir 17:16

just continues to keep growing and growing, so it'll.

Joe Doctora 17:19

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir 17:19

Hopefully just keep going up and up.

Victor Razi 17:22

For sure. Joe, what do you think are like the limiting factors for, uh, let's say you're like maybe someone in your shoes, like single practice doc or one or two practice with an As or one or two practice with an associate not private equity involved. Let's say someone approaches you that is private equity, like what are, what's kinda like the surgeon's mindset for, for not wanting to get involved with private equity?

Joe Doctora 17:46

For not wanting to get

Victor Razi 17:47

I'm just kinda

Joe Doctora 17:48

I would just

Victor Razi 17:48

sure.

Joe Doctora 17:49

lack of either the lack of trust or the lack of a control I the. I remember where I was when this guy walked in my office, just had a hat. He had a, like a Tumblr and just Hey, I'm such and such. I said, nice to meet you. He says, do you know

Victor Razi 18:06

For sure.

Joe Doctora 18:06

sold to private equity? Do you know these people? These are the biggest names in Nashville in my book. Idea. It was like one of the last people to consider that I

Saad Alamgir 18:14

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 18:15

that they did it, but, and

Victor Razi 18:17

Uhhuh.

Joe Doctora 18:17

Pretty bright people. So they've done their homework and I thought what

Saad Alamgir 18:20

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 18:21

missing? And,

Saad Alamgir 18:22

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 18:23

It yeah, I don't know. I guess I'm

Victor Razi 18:26

Yeah,

Joe Doctora 18:26

in the group. I just really wasn't prepared to do that at the moment.

Saad Alamgir 18:30

Yeah.

Victor Razi 18:31

And I feel like it's gained a lot of traction over the past, 10 ish years or so of. Of getting involved. It's always been around to an extent, but I feel as of recently, especially amongst the specialty groups, it's really have gained some traction too. Would you agree? Would you agree or

Joe Doctora 18:46

I

Victor Razi 18:46

you say

Joe Doctora 18:46

I'm shocked. A tooth guy is also, I think he. He owns one. I think through acquiring practices and,

Victor Razi 18:52

Right,

Joe Doctora 18:53

the amount of money that they wanna put behind it. And a lot of people have a hard time saying no to that, which I get.

Victor Razi 18:59

For sure.

Joe Doctora 18:59

I just some things that have crossed my mind is, okay, so I sign up, I'll take the paycheck, they're gonna rent my building. I'll do And I'll be young enough to open another practice.

Victor Razi 19:11

Right.

Joe Doctora 19:11

to think like that, but that's how my brain works,

Saad Alamgir 19:13

yeah.

Joe Doctora 19:13

I can almost

Victor Razi 19:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Doctora 19:14

getting tired of working for somebody, and I don't know, you just,

Saad Alamgir 19:17

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 19:18

what I always do. Worst case scenario, which is probably not a good practice, but I thought that there's an escape route for five years, is nothing really.

Victor Razi 19:25

Yeah, no, I mean it makes sense though. You're kind of weighing all the options there and you don't want to be stuck anywhere by any means. So kind of weighing it all makes a lot of sense. How do you think the landscape will be for like new docs that are, because you know, you, you weren't really involved very much with private equity earlier in your career, but the new docs coming out now. I mean, I feel like over 50% of practices have some type of involvement. Maybe that's a drastic statistic, but regardless there's some type of involvement. How do you think that landscape will change?

Joe Doctora 19:56

really think it's trending

Victor Razi 19:57

Um,

Joe Doctora 19:57

getting to be like medicine. How many people do, you know in med school who say, I'm gonna get out, have residency and open my practice? That's really uniquely dental here recently.

Saad Alamgir 20:09

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 20:09

I

Victor Razi 20:09

sure.

Joe Doctora 20:10

unless you're like a derm, even dermatology, unless you're maybe a plastic surgeon. Or an ear, nose and throat or something really specialized. If you're in primary care, I think it would be suicide to open your own practice. I do, I

Saad Alamgir 20:22

Mm-hmm.

Joe Doctora 20:23

the, it'd be stacked against you. The landscape would be stacked against you. So I think that it's trending towards that. Unfortunately. I think that the type of deni type of kids who are going into dental school, I'm not sure if they're gonna want the appetite for a new venture when they've got half a million dollars in debt.

Saad Alamgir 20:39

Yeah,

Victor Razi 20:40

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 20:41

just different. So I think it's trending in that direction.

Victor Razi 20:45

Yeah, I think that's a, um, I actually haven't heard that take as of recently.'Cause I, I try to stay pretty involved on like how things move in the future. And I think you brought up a really interesting point that I haven't heard yet personally is why, you know, when you're already fi, I mean, NYUI think is like close to 800 K. Why? I don't even know. You have a hard time getting loaned money too, at that rate.

Joe Doctora 21:07

completely. To open up a practice, you're gonna take another million dollars out and

Saad Alamgir 21:10

Yeah. At least, yeah.

Victor Razi 21:13

Yeah,

Joe Doctora 21:14

there's

Victor Razi 21:14

that's, it's crazy.

Joe Doctora 21:15

it, man. If you just used chairs get into an old dental office and social media and then work,

Victor Razi 21:23

Sure.

Joe Doctora 21:23

it can be done on the cheap.

Saad Alamgir 21:26

Yeah,

Victor Razi 21:26

What's been your perspective on like what was your perspective on having a single practice versus expanding? Is that, how was your approach to that in your career?

Joe Doctora 21:36

I did it really rapidly. It was like within a year. I guess I just. Had these ideas to open multiple practices. I ended up at two and I stayed at two. And I, before Dr. Newton came along, I would just split my days. I would, one day there would be nobody at the office. And really a change of scenery and just a hedger bets. And

Victor Razi 21:58

I see.

Joe Doctora 21:59

I had a philosophy. I wanted to own the real estate, I

Saad Alamgir 22:02

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 22:02

Buying that and then being my own tenant, I thought that there were some advantages to that.

Victor Razi 22:08

Sweet. Yeah, I the real estate side. Did you have much experience with that at all too? Or nothing and just kind of,

Joe Doctora 22:16

I just did it. Sometimes it's better not to think about it.

Victor Razi 22:19

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 22:20

I just did it.

Victor Razi 22:21

That's a good point. I think too, being in the dental slash medical field, we're kind of innately hardwired to overthink situations as opposed to like my friends or people I know in business who sometimes they just do stuff just to do it. Like, it's just like, okay, yeah, I'll, I'll spend$50,000 on this and then figure out if I was right or wrong, you know? But I feel like we think it through just how we think through a case or treatment plan. I feel like it's good at times that sometimes they can bite you in the butt, but yeah. So do you have any advice for dental students, uh, for the future of dentistry? I know you've been in the game for a while, um, so just kind of wondering your thoughts on how you think that the oldest headed and if you would've done anything different coming out now.

Joe Doctora 23:06

I guess I'll answer your question with a question, which is my pet peeve, but do you guys wanna,

Victor Razi 23:10

Okay.

Joe Doctora 23:12

specialize? Are you guys thinking about.

Victor Razi 23:15

I am, yeah, I'm considering, uh, OMS actually. That or general dentistry is kind of my thing. Yeah.

Joe Doctora 23:23

guess ask yourself if you want to be a general dentist, no one understand that your career is gonna be really I get involved in the community. You're gonna get to know your patients for years and years. And that's your personality, then that's perfect for you.

Saad Alamgir 23:39

Mm-hmm.

Joe Doctora 23:40

my

Victor Razi 23:40

Sure.

Joe Doctora 23:41

more of, I like that, but I also liked my patients to sleep, the one and done. I am big into instant gratification and,

Victor Razi 23:50

Sure.

Joe Doctora 23:51

is

Saad Alamgir 23:51

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 23:51

So if you're a little bit

Saad Alamgir 23:53

Yeah.

Joe Doctora 23:54

you like seeing results and you like anesthesia, pathology those type fields, then. Oral surgery kind of involves all that. So know

Saad Alamgir 24:04

Yeah.

Victor Razi 24:05

see.

Joe Doctora 24:05

and yeah, just go accordingly.

Victor Razi 24:08

Sweet. Well, um, we really appreciate you, uh, Dr. Joe Dr. For joining us today and kind of telling us a little bit about yourself and really just keeping it real with how you handle things, how you treat your patients, and. How your perspective is on life and the field of dentistry. So I think I think, uh, you know, talking to you didn't feel like a sales pitch or anything by any means. I think you've kept it real with us so far. So, for those of us, for those of you who don't know, uh, follow Joe Doc on Instagram, he, uh. Make some really quality content that, I was watching one of your clips the other day. It was super funny. But, uh, yeah, man, we really appreciate your time and thank you for, all you've done so far.

Joe Doctora 24:47

I appreciate

Victor Razi 24:48

I.

Joe Doctora 24:48

I enjoyed it.