Inside Jacksonville University’s Oral Implantology Residency Program w/ Dr. James Rutkowski

In this episode of Let’s Talk Teeth, we are joined by Dr. James (Jim) Rutkowski, the Program Director of Jacksonville University’s Comprehensive Oral Implantology Program, one of the few programs in the country dedicated specifically to advanced implant training.

Dr. Rutkowski shares his unique career journey, from pharmacy school at Duquesne University to dental school at the University of Pittsburgh, followed by private practice in Pennsylvania. He later returned to Duquesne to earn a PhD in Pharmacology, and even establishing a research laboratory within his dental office focused on autogenous growth factors for oral bone regeneration.

After decades of clinical practice centered largely on implant surgery and grafting, Dr. Rutkowski retired from clinical dentistry in 2020 and now focuses on education. He gives us an inside look at Jacksonville University’s 2 Year Comprehensive Oral Implantology Program, discussing its origins, structure, didactics, EPAs, IV sedation training, tuition, stipends, and how training sites are matched with residents.

Don’t miss this insightful conversation with one of the leaders in implant dentistry as we explore the training, philosophy, and future of oral implantology.

00:00 Meet Dr James Rutkowski

00:34 Transitioning from Pharmacy to Dentistry

01:23 Small Town Practice Move

01:43 PhD Research and Patents

03:03 Implant Focus and Retirement

04:35 Why Dentistry Rewards

06:50 Pharmacology in Modern Care

08:04 Jacksonville Program Origins

09:25 Recruited as Program Director

13:31 Program Overview and Sites

15:27 Training EPAs and Sedation

18:54 Didactics Culture and Flexibility

24:23 Applications Deadlines and Match

28:11 How the Match Works

29:26 Flexibility and New Sites

30:50 Ideal Applicant Profile

33:07 Clinical Progression and EPAs

35:02 Site Consistency and Case Volume

36:59 Mentorship and Practice Management

39:11 Program Outcomes and Recognition

40:17 How Clinics Join the Program

43:31 Stipends Discounts and Director Benefits

48:00 Final Advice and Wrap Up

Transcript

Saad Alamgir 0:09

All right everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let Talk Teeth. Today we have Dr. James Rakowski. Dr. Jim, if you don't mind just kind introducing yourself, telling us a little about your background, where you went to dental school at, where you're at now, and the unique position that you're in today.

Dr. James Rutkowski 0:25

Okay. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it

Victor Razi 0:28

Of course.

Dr. James Rutkowski 0:28

I look forward to chatting with the two of you for the next hour or whatever. And the let's see. I I started out working in a pharmacy when I was in high school, and every time I left the pharmacy, pharmacist said to me, Jim, you're gonna be a pharmacist when you grow up. And I said, okay, sure, Mr. Green. And every time I went to my dentist said to me, at the end of every appointment. you're gonna be a dentist. And lo and behold when I graduated from high school, I went to pharmacy school at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I graduated in 1972 from pharmacy school. Then I went directly to dental school at the University of Pittsburgh,

Saad Alamgir 1:10

Wow.

Dr. James Rutkowski 1:10

I graduated in 1976. And then I went into general practice was an associate and bought that practice within six months of graduation. Enjoyed it in Pittsburgh, but my wife and I, we had two children. We spent seven years in Pittsburgh and we had two children and wanted to raise them in a small town. We went to a small town called Clarion, Pennsylvania in the middle of the state. And I practiced there. We raised our two children once they got out of college. I realized that I wasn't done going to school even though I was 51 years old at that time. Went back to my pharmacy, Alma Mater Duquesne, and I said I'd like to get a PhD in pharmacology, which is something I always wanted. I always wanted dental school, and I went to PhD in pharmacology. They were kind enough to allow me to attend the PhD program in pharmacology, toxicology on a part-time basis, I funded my own research and I put a research laboratory in my dental office in the lower level of it in our building, and I actually hired students, graduate students, undergraduate students to work in that laboratory. I knew how to do all the experiments, but I was upstairs doing dentistry while they were downstairs running. Tests and what I got my PhD, my dissertation was on the use of autogenous growth factors for bone growth in the oral cavity.

Saad Alamgir 2:40

Nice.

Dr. James Rutkowski 2:40

that,

Saad Alamgir 2:41

Mm-hmm.

Dr. James Rutkowski 2:41

got done, I started a research company and we came out with a that we got patents on. And it's been a good ride. It's been a good ride. I continued to practice through all of it. While I was in my PhD program, I practiced three days a week. When I got done with the PhD program, I can, I cut back to two and a half days a week enjoyed practice tremendously. In fact, my last five years of practice, I retired from clinical practice July, 2020. That was in mid COVID there. I I lived, my wife and I, we actually lived in South Carolina, those last five years, six years. but I drove, I didn't drive. I flew back to Pittsburgh and then I would drive from Pittsburgh to this little town called Clarine in middle state where I practiced Monday, Tuesday, and a half day Wednesday. It was mostly just implant surgeries, bone grafting, et cetera. Did do some implant prosthetics, but that's how I ended my career. And then I sold my practice to an oral surgeon and two general practitioners. And,

Saad Alamgir 3:48

Wow.

Dr. James Rutkowski 3:49

since taken the practice and continued to grow it and have done well and have a great relationship with'em. I just had text messaging with one general practitioner not too long ago. of course we exchanged holiday greetings and whatnot. been a wonderful life for me because of my PhD. I've pretty much over the last 20 years been associated with one university or another University of Pittsburgh state University of New York at Buffalo. and in salt Lake City as well and now Jacksonville University. I've enjoyed having a foot in clinical practice, a foot in research, then I guess a hand in education. done a lot of teaching of continuing education courses, and so it's been a great life. And for those of you that are still in dental school, believe me, you are informed for one of the most rewarding careers that you could ever have. I know that there's many things that are rewarding, and dentistry is a, I don't wanna, I don't wanna to make it sound easy. It's a tough job, it's ever changing. Every patient is always different. even a re-exam patient is like a new patient because situations change, neural cavity. I personally would not change one thing about my education. My, my work as a pharmacist, and then as a dentist and as an educator and as a researcher, and now as director of the Jacksonville University comprehensive world on implantology program. So I'm happy for, to see the two of you are d threes soon to start D four and you're just in for a great life. And all those that are tuning into this podcast, it's, I'm not saying you won't have a hard day here and there the rewards of a, when you give that patient that mirror and they smile, especially when it's an implant case, and they went from a terminal dentition to where now they have fixed teeth and they can, they smile with confidence. They're gonna be able to eat with confidence or even if it's, even if it's just a. Class four composite on number nine. And you show'em that mirror and man, because teeth mean a lot to people and there's nothing like having a beautiful smile and good function, so you're in for a good life.

Victor Razi 6:09

Dr. Jim, we have, we appreciate your story. It's unique, of course, and I, it really is motivating, knowing that you don't really regret anything. And I think me and sod kind of resonate with your story a little more specifically. We, uh. We both actually, when we started undergrad at Ole Miss, we both got into the early entry pharmacy program. So we were both in pharmacy, doing pharmacy classes and we both just decided we wanted to do dentistry as well. So similar story in a way we didn't go the full stretch.

Saad Alamgir 6:42

yeah. We didn't get the pharm d, but we did start similarly.

Dr. James Rutkowski 6:47

great.

Saad Alamgir 6:47

Yeah.

Victor Razi 6:48

well, we really do appreciate your story.

Dr. James Rutkowski 6:50

whatever education you got while you were in your pharm d programs, believe me, it will pay you dividends having an understanding of pharmacology is so important, especially with the age group of the patients. Everybody's living longer. People go to the dentist longer. And for those of you that do get into implantology, your patients are 60, 70, 80, 90 years old. And they will come to you with a systemic pathologies, and then they will reach in their pocket and they will take out a piece of paper eight and a half by 1112 font, top to bottom with medications, it, and it, and they can. The top 25 medications prescribed in 2023 all had an effect on oral

Victor Razi 7:41

Oh my.

Saad Alamgir 7:43

Wow.

Victor Razi 7:43

That's interesting.

Dr. James Rutkowski 7:44

it's not just a, a medical history and somebody wrote something

Victor Razi 7:47

Right.

Dr. James Rutkowski 7:48

There is something there. Many times it's of no consequence, but at the right dose, root of administration or duration of use, it can have an impact on what we do in dentistry.

Victor Razi 8:00

That's interesting Dr. Jim. We, uh, we appreciate that. And our, uh, listeners including SOD and myself, you mentioned Jacksonville some, uh, do you mind sharing a little bit about how that got started and how you're involved with Jacksonville and, and what our listeners can benefit from knowing about Jacksonville?

Dr. James Rutkowski 8:19

Oh we had some great founders of the program Dr. Hil Tatum, who passed about a year ago. Dr. Duke Keller, who is still with us. Andy McConnell, Shane, Sammy, and a few other people that started an organization called ko. And that was a foundation that was for comprehensive oral implantology that funded the start of the program. They raised over$1.1 million that got the program started with the university, because when you're starting a program, you have no, I have no idea how many residents or students you're gonna have. And the first few years are just losers. So they, they had to have money to keep it going. So my, a tip of my hat to Dr. Hi Tatum, Keller, and McConnell and Shane, Sammy and others that were part of rf, that, that got the program started because they were pioneers in implant dentistry. Now all of those individuals were friends of mine. They were mentors of mine. in fact, duke, Keller and I, this morning, we exchanged text messages. And still very close. They started the program, none of them had really had a lot of academic experience and it became evident after about a year and a half that they needed to have somebody with academic experience. that point, I was retired other than lecturing. I'm editor of the Journal of Oral Implantology, which is the peer reviewed journal for the American Academy of Implant Dentistry. And I was quite happy to be being an editor. It was great. I'd come in my office, I'd review papers and get'em ready for publication, and then I'd go out in a lecture maybe a couple times a month, and I was quite happy doing what I was doing. They came to me and asked me if I would over as director of the program. And I said thank you for thinking of me. But no, I'm quite happy doing what I'm doing. I'm retired and I get to

Saad Alamgir 10:14

Mm-hmm.

Dr. James Rutkowski 10:15

bit of work and it's quite all right. Some travel. It's a good life I have, but thank you very much for thinking of me. And they went away and they came back in six weeks. They said did you think about it? And I said, what do you mean? Think about it. I said, I thought that decision was made. thought I said no. And they said did you change your mind? I said, no, I didn't change my mind. And they said, okay. And then another six weeks went by and the dean of Jacksonville University college of Health Sciences called me and the dean and I, Mark Tillman, Dr. Tillman. We just hit it off and it was a great conversation. And my wife could hear it in the background and she got off and she said. You aren't gonna take this, are you? And I says, I could work with this guy. And I said, I think I'm gonna take it. Yes, I'm gonna take it. I did. I decided to take it. And it's been very rewarding for me emotionally to see my residents grow. We've graduated one class, will graduate a second class. It was originally a three year program. second three year class will graduate in May, the year class, which is where we transition to a two year program, will graduate at the end of August and then thereafter, our fourth class and whatnot, they will graduate at the end of Mays, we're about to bring in our fifth class this July, and I got involved with them I guess it was maybe midway through the second year. So I've been with'em almost three years now. Enjoyed it tremendously. There've been challenges, some major challenges brought forth to us. But we've been able to rise to all the challenges. I have a great staff. we are lean, mean. I have two admins with me a person named Angela and a person named Jasmine. And between the three of us, we're able to work very efficiently, have very dedicated adjunct professors the didactic classes for us. And then I also have very dedicated clinical directors spread throughout the country at all the residency sites who work day to day and moment to moment with all of the residents. So it's much bigger than me. It is a true team effort, and the residents are team members. And my senior residents, they do help do a great deal of the teaching for us as well.

Saad Alamgir 12:31

Man, that's awesome. And it's very interesting to hear about how, you in initially, were gonna turn it down until, the Dean of Jacksonville's health science just came and it's like, Hey, and then had a conversation, and then next thing you know you're taking it on. And by no means is this a, easy endeavor. So kudos to you for, being pretty much, semi-retired to come back in and, establish things the right way. And it seems like y'all got a great thing going for the listeners who are listening, who are hearing about all this, but don't really know about Jacksonville University's oral implantology program, do you mind just the whole overview of what this program is, what it can bring to say, a dental student or a young dentist are, who's interested in implants, but they're not sure if they wanna do a re residency. How does Jacksonville's program fall into a person who's listening to this, who's interested in this program?

Dr. James Rutkowski 13:27

you. It'll be a pleasure to talk about it. I love this program. let's see. It is a two year program full-time. They the residents are what we call associate residents. They are in implant directed practices where the concentration is dental implantology at the practices that they are in. of them are in 5 0 1 3 C nonprofit clinics. But even at those sites, they are directed towards dental implantology and the sites are all over the United States. I think that we, right now we have 26 or 27 sites. Some sites have multiple residents, which is really great.'cause you get to go through the program. You usually have a senior resident, two or three, and some junior residents, one, two, or three. So that's really a neat, it's a great learning environment, although those that are just an individual practices as solos they still learn a great deal. they are associate residents, in other words, they go in, they are paid a minimum of a$50,000 stipend for three days worth of work. They can then go out and they can still have a life, have a family for those that have children or spouses or wanna get married and whatnot, you can still do that. And you can still make a decent living. I know$50,000 isn't much, but that's for three days a week. you can go out and freelance the other two days a week as an associate somewhere else, in that practice that you're at. You can stay there for four or five days, a weeks if they desire to have you there. then we re, we recommend, we don't dictate, but we recommend then that everything over$200,000 in collections, less lab fees that the associate resident gets paid 30%. So many of our residents make anywhere from 80 to a hundred fifty, a hundred seventy five. I just had one resident that was making$250,000 a year in their clinic. So they're now, that's not everyone. That's not anybody to misinterpret that

Saad Alamgir 15:26

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 15:27

But there are some each site pays a little bit differently, but you go in and you start by assisting the director, which is usually the owner of that practice or the manager of that practice. And placing dental implants, doing bone grafting procedures surgical procedures. Start out as a number two assistant, then move into a number one assistant, and then you eventually begin to do the procedures guided with that director looking over your shoulder. and then eventually you're doing them unguided. work on entrusted professional activities, of which we have 89 of them. Part of those 89 are that in the first year you get your IV sedation training, so that usually by the end of your second year, you're ready to be applying to your state Board of dentistry for your IV sedation permit. And we're very glad to say that we have the most vigorous IV sedation training program. Conscious IV sedation program in the United States is accepted in all

Saad Alamgir 16:29

Wow.

Dr. James Rutkowski 16:30

all IV sedation programs are. Ours is, and that IV sedation training into itself probably has a value of, depending on which, where you go to take it from anywhere from 20 to 27, 20 And yet our tuition is 37,500 per year. So that first year you get a an IV sedation program that you would you would pay$20,000

Saad Alamgir 16:56

Yeah. Right.

Dr. James Rutkowski 16:57

implant training. anyway, you work in the clinic. I attend staff meetings. You do number one EPA is that you get a good medical history, good pharmacological history. do a treatment plan. Presentation of that treatment plan, acceptance of that treatment plan, informed consent. There's 12 competencies under that first EP, A. Now we want a volume of work. We don't want just one and done. We don't want you just to do one of those. Of course, that's gonna be the basis for every other implant case you do throughout the program. So you might end up doing those that number one EPA 200 times. But your director will, you keep a record of it on a sheet and your director will sign off on it and check a box that says when you're ready to do it by yourself, the next time he signs it and checks that box. But you as the resident have to also sign off and check the box that says you're ready to go do it for yourself. So it is, does somebody else have the confidence that you can go in and do it? And then also do you have the confidence to

Saad Alamgir 18:08

Mm-hmm.

Dr. James Rutkowski 18:08

it? Again, it is a volume of work where it's not, five dentures before you graduate. This is, you're gonna do'em until you know how to do them. And this is what you do all day long. Eight to five or six or seven. This is what you do. In our, our the program is demanding. It's fun. I'm telling you what, if you like learning and if you like dentistry and if you love implant dentistry, you will love this program. residents they're just bubbling over. We have a special class this evening that is a just a special one thrown in this evening that we are going to have a tremendous turnout for. In fact, as soon as I get done here, I have to go to teach that class with them Sunday nights. Our didactic classes are Monday through Thursday. Eight to nine 30 Eastern time, but they're all recorded do your classwork Asynchronous. There are reading assignments, there are some homework assignments, there are quizzes. Some have midterms, some have final examinations. Some consist of a project, like a capstone project so that at the end of the program you have a volume of work to show of which one of that pieces of volume work may be a paper that's ready for publication or presentation to do at a scientific meeting or have your cases ready to present to the American Board of Oil and Plant Dentistry for board certification. And I will talk about that a little bit more going forward. Monday through Thursday, eight to nine 30. Asynchronous though, on Tuesday nights is a class that I teach. We have round table. you present your cases, and obviously if it's your turn to present, you've gotta be there. But we usually have a very robust turnout on Tuesday nights for that because of discussions on how to do these implant cases. junior residents are learning from senior residents. Senior residents are learning from each other. Senior residents end up helping teach the junior residents. It's just a tremendous learning experience. And I practiced implant dentistry probably 35 of my 44 years with 20 of it being principally only implant dentistry. I'm board certified. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you what. Every Tuesday night I learn a bunch by hearing everybody's presentations. Then on Sunday nights we have a special topics. It is either study classes for the conscious IV sedation or special topics in implant dentistry. That is a no charge, no credit course, but we get a tremendous turnout for Sunday nights as well. So our residents, it is user friendly a big believer that we have to very respectful of the resident's life. I do my best not to waste any young person's one minute of their life because every minute that you spend in achieving and doing and learning and accomplishing something now will pay you huge dividends when you're my age. And so I have grandchildren that are your age, I don't like anybody wasting their time and I don't wanna waste anybody's time. So we really do try to, to make it enjoyable, make it fun, but it's flexible. Where that some residency programs at universities in the code approved programs like Perio Pros, oral surgery, whatnot. They're pretty rigid. And I'm proud to say that many of our residents are and not one of our residents a divorce yet. Okay. And I don't know of any that are Yeah. And because you know that's one of the prices that people pay for when they go into some of those residency programs is one they pay huge. They have tuitions of 80, a hundred, 120,000 where ours is 37 5. and you can work on the side. It is considered a full-time program. working towards getting implant dentistry as a code approved specialty. It is an approved specialty by the American Board of Dental Specialties. which you can advertise your credentials in. I think it's 38 states or something now. But in your MS degree, you get an MS degree and you get a Master of Science in Dentistry, implantology, comprehensive Oral Implantology. And you're allowed to advertise that on your letterhead and on your sign and everything because it's an earned university, accredited degree accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Universities. I I think the program is right for young people because you go from coming outta dental school getting able to get right into implant dentistry. Now, depending on where you've come, I have some people that have been out practicing five years and they come back and decide to get into it, and maybe they've already placed, 500 or a thousand implant. but we accommodate the program and your site director accommodates that learning experience to match you. We'd like you to have all 89 EPAs done within two years, and that's when the didactic courses end is in two years. if for whatever reason you have not completed your EPAs, you get two additional semesters at no charge to complete your EPAs. you hang around for 3, 4, 5, the university does have a fee for that. And you can't hang around six years. They don't let people around that

Saad Alamgir 23:40

Yeah,

Dr. James Rutkowski 23:41

sooner or later that

Saad Alamgir 23:43

you gotta get out in the real world.

Dr. James Rutkowski 23:44

yeah, we make it very user friendly. One of our residents graduated last year, placed over a thousand implants in the residency and restored over a thousand implants and managed all the postoperative and post prosthetic complications and followed them through, three years of Now the program is two years though,

Victor Razi 24:07

Well, thank you for sharing Dr. Jim about, about it all. It's super unique and I think that, you know, me and SA being Mississippi Boys, just hearing all these things, you know, it's, it's unique knowing that there's these opportunities out there. And we're happy to learn more about'em. And I'm, I'm sure our listeners are a few questions I had regarding to the program is, uh, how do applications typically work? Is there deadlines? And then also. I know you mentioned that there's multiple sites. Do applicants have preferences to sites or is it, uh, does it kind of like a draft, like the NFL draft, how does that, uh, how does that work towards, uh, the program?

Dr. James Rutkowski 24:49

the the deadline for admissions is May 15th for a July one start, but if a practitioner has experience okay. Of some kind maybe they've been outta school for two or three years, maybe the GPR residency, maybe they're coming out of the military and whatnot. We are just instituting this next year. We haven't done it yet, but we're instituting it for next year that they would, they can come in July, September or January

Victor Razi 25:16

see.

Dr. James Rutkowski 25:17

Okay?

Saad Alamgir 25:18

Oh, wow.

Dr. James Rutkowski 25:18

now those coming out of dental school, we would like them to stick with a July start date because we have an orientation class in the summer separate from the regular tuition. That is a 37 50$3,750 tuition for that. It's a two week long orientation period. And it's got a lot of oh, medical evaluation in it. And aseptic sterile technique for use in dentistry and whatnot. It's a pretty intense two weeks of training for it that your director has to let you attend, although they are recorded. So if you can't make, the Tuesday class, you certainly can. They're used, they're in the mornings for four hours. but it is a match process. We'd like you to have your application in the sooner, the better it is. First come, first competitive. Okay. And those, I'll be quite honest with you, those getting your application in, like in of April and beyond they're simply told you've gotta wait till next year because everything is filled. limit the class size to 25, although last year I did take 27. But I did turn down probably 10 or 15 people who I said, you'll be, your application is there. It may be a very strong application, but you got it in late. So the sooner you get it in, the better. We really like to have'em in by December 31st year. So for this year, we went in by December 31st, 2025, which is a little bit later than Perio oral surgery. Those code approved programs at other universities. then let's see the match process. We once you get your application in and you need transcripts and everything, all that kind of stuff you get all that stuff in, and then we ask you, we, then we reveal to you where all the potential sites are for where we ask you, where would you like to go? And you say, I'd like to be in southeastern United States. So then we give you all the sites that are looking for residents in the Southeastern United States. And then you say, you know what? I like Tampa, I like Miami, and I like Atlanta. Okay, so then what we do is we take, we ask you to fill, if you pick your top five, then that we go to our map and we see, okay, we've got this person, his top five, were those 3, 4, 5 cities. Then we send your, you make a recording, you have an application, and you write a paper. Why you wanna go into implant dentistry in a video of why you wanna be in implant dentistry. And then that gets shipped out to those 3, 4, 5 sites which the clinical director, then they get, like maybe five or 10. Of those, of which they look at'em and they say we like number one, two, and five. Okay. those one, two, and five there is the, that the candidates one, two, and five set up a phone interview a virtual interview with the clinical site. And if it goes well, then they're invited to do an onsite visit, which we'd like it to be for one or two days. And then after that you, the resident, the potential resident says, yep, I like my second choice the best. I want number two. And then we let the number two site know that the resident would really like to go there, and then they have the ability to accept or reject the match. If you don't like any of the matches we give you coming out of the box and we say, okay, if you will expand and consider Lexington, Kentucky, Chicago, Illinois Washington State, California, wherever. And we almost had a site in Cali or in Huntsville, Alabama where I'm at I think that next year we will have them on board. We had to, they had to do some things to, to qualify for us at this point in time. But everybody that it is competitive and everybody that met the competitive cut did get matched. They just may not have got their first site. you have to have a little bit of flexibility in,

Saad Alamgir 29:29

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 29:30

willing to move. But if you say, look, I'm gonna stay in Jackson, Mississippi we don't have a site in Jackson, Mississippi at this time. But if you know of a clinician there, or a practice that does a lot of implant dentistry, maybe it's an all on x dental clinic. Some of the affordable dentures sites do a lot of, we're very tightly aligned with affordable dentures. They do, some of the sites do a lot of implants, those sites, then we can approve and somebody can begin the residency at one of those sites. So if there's not one where you wanna be, I'm not saying we can get one there, but we would need your help. And we may be able to find a site there for you a private practice or 5 0 1 3 C clinic.

Saad Alamgir 30:17

Yeah, based off the, just a type of application that it is, it seems very accommodating to, I think you said it best whenever you're saying you don't want to get in the way of, y'all's residents lives. And even the way that y'all are matching, it's very accommodating to, the applicant. They even have the, for a regular match. Somewhere, you have to go there. There's not an option. If you don't accept it, then you basically get barred from, that specialty. But at least for here it seems very. Oh, y'all are very open to working with the app applicant. That being said, I did have a question about what type of applicant is y'all's ideal applicant? Is it someone straight outta dental school with, an interest in implant dentistry but hasn't really had meant many experiences? Is it, someone who's finished up a GPR or has been working for a couple years? I'm sure y'all have seen all those, but what is this program looking for specifically? know that's broad and we can't say specifically, but just in general.

Dr. James Rutkowski 31:18

Yeah. Our number one preferred applicant, the ones that, that, perform the strongest are those that are coming out of a EGD or GPR residencies or cross residents or aerial residency. Or an oral surgery residency, this is the most comprehensive, you get more implant training in our program than you do in oral surgery per or pro. I'm not saying that they, they don't get implant training. They certainly do, is certainly more intense, didactically and clinically. But we do usually accept a couple of recent graduates every year. Now they're pretty strong. They interviewed strong. They and I don't wanna discourage anyone from making an application because you learn a lot in making the application. And we do hold those that we do not accept over for the next year, and they get preferential treatment. We begin our match process October 15th. those individuals, they would be first in line to go into the match process if we felt they were worthy. If we feel somebody's just not, doesn't have, then we just say, look, we think we, you need some more experience, and then maybe come back and visit us in a year, two or three down the road. But we usually do accept two or three recent graduates each year. And these individuals they hold their own, they work hard. They study hard and their start might be just a little bit slower, but let's see. I, this is March and I have a couple of recent grads that started in July, one of last year. Man, these guys and gals that that are, that are in, that met that criteria, they are doing beautiful cases. Now they may not be the most advanced cases. to those EPAs. So you start out with just that, that diagnosing treatment planning, and then you move on to placing an implant in a healed ridge of adequate height, width, and quality of bone. Then maybe a single implant, an aesthetic zone, then a single implant in the posterior maxilla that does not need a sinus augmentation, posterior mandible. Then you will do posterior maxilla needing either a crest approach and you'll have to do both lateral window, sinus augmentations, mandible, lateral vertical augmentations multiple implants in the aesthetic zone. on X cases. So you're putting in 4, 5, 6 implants and delivering an immediate prosthesis work heavy in prosthetics. You have to do all the prosthetics as well in the program. Both digital as well as analog. So when you come out, you know how to do both digital and analog. and then with a more complex zygomatic implants and OID implants, now every site does all those. And if your site doesn't do those, then you go and travel to a site that does do them. You're not gonna get to do them'cause you're not gonna have a license in that state. And you're, they're not gonna trust a patient with you with that advanced you will be able to observe or assist then you write a paper of a thousand, 1500 words. And then you sit for an interview with me. It's just so I'm sure that you do understand that procedure.

Saad Alamgir 34:39

Yeah.

Victor Razi 34:39

awesome. Yeah, it's, it really does seem like y'all, this program program seems intense, but it doesn't seem like it wastes time. You know, it doesn't seem like there's anything that just is busy work. It's all, it's all catering to towards like being efficient and learning things that matter, uh, which is unique and kudos to you for being a part of an organization like that. A question I had, uh, Dr. Jim is, uh. Should residents ex expect the same type of training in every site, or, I know you mentioned it's a little different, but what does it typically look like? 50 implants, 70 implants, or just multiple? Do you mind elaborating a little bit on how the sites work?

Dr. James Rutkowski 35:24

the EPAs help standardize all the different sites.

Victor Razi 35:28

Okay,

Dr. James Rutkowski 35:29

cause everybody has to do the EPAs.

Victor Razi 35:30

I'll see.

Dr. James Rutkowski 35:31

And again if you don't do something, then you go someplace else. But the most of the routine things and when I say routine, the all on Xs and all that. All of our sites, we've got good sites. Now I must admit, in the very first year, they had some sites that were maybe just a little weak. They didn't have, they weren't real strong. But now our sites are strong and so they are all pretty much, the same because of the EPAs. Now, there are some sites that that are doing 5, 6, 700 implants, and there's some that are doing 200 implants, but even those 200 implants, they're still getting a tremendous amount of experience. And then it's diverse from anterior, posterior augmentations augmentations socket, graftings, all of those

Victor Razi 36:19

Sure.

Dr. James Rutkowski 36:20

Every single one of those are in there. And anybody that's has an interest in the program, let me know. And we will provide names of some residents that you can reach out to.'cause my residents, they're willing to talk to any, in everybody about this. They are enthusiastic about it. There's, and there's nobody I would hesitate to give their name out. is

Saad Alamgir 36:46

Just bought in, it seems

Dr. James Rutkowski 36:48

yeah. Everybody's bought into the program. Yep. They,

Saad Alamgir 36:51

Mm.

Dr. James Rutkowski 36:51

in on it. Yeah the EPAs to help give that standardization. Can I say that everybody's gonna get the exact same number of implants? No. And a lot of it's what the individual puts into it. The more they buy into it, and you're gonna be getting your own patients in that practice, they're gonna be assigned to you. As an associate resident, we gotta got a diagnose the implants. You got a treatment plan for the implants, you gotta learn how to present implants. And we've got some veterans,'cause we have what we call a remote residency program that involves people that are already A BOI diplomats. I have a tremendous amount of experience and they love to mentor my younger residents. But they wanted to get that master's degree. They wanted to get more didactic education. and they wanna be part of Roundtable and see what other people are doing.'cause they learn and they will help younger residents learn how to present cases to get case acceptance. Do have a practice management course. It's at the end of the program and a one that involves legal ramifications of implant dentistry a practice and how to

Saad Alamgir 37:57

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 37:58

with multiple sites.

Saad Alamgir 38:01

Like Victor said, I, it seems like the program is very, it's a lot. There's no, it's. Going around that, but everything that seems to be presented is very applicable, very real world, so kudos to y'all for, first even about something like this, to be honest, when I first, for those of y'all who haven't listened Dr. Jim has a podcast with Soren and Tyler on the FIX podcast. They're good friends, and it's a great episode, and I recommend everyone check it out. But, you talked about it on that podcast and I was just a listener that, on that one, and I was just amazed. I I, I couldn't even believe that this was, a thing that was possible for, students and, clinicians themselves to be a part of. Kudos y'all for even, having this idea and for creating a comprehensive system as it is. And I think it's really incredible, especially for someone who's, in implant dentistry. You get. Everything that you could possibly want from, like you were saying, remote anchorage, zygomatic, OIDs to all OnX, single cases, lateral windows. Anything you want. It's factored into the program and it's taken into consideration, so that's really cool.

Dr. James Rutkowski 39:12

one of my graduates who's graduating in May he was in the hybrid program going from three to two. So he's two and two third years.'cause it, it switched from a three year to a two year midway through it. He actually interviewed with and the, with a major dental school, oral surgery department in the United States to bring him on as faculty. And it looks as though they will be bringing him on as faculty in an oral surgery department. Because they wanna bring implants in and they don't have anybody there that has the implant training of surgical and prosthetics that this individual does. That school does not have any specialty programs. They have oral surgery department, but it's just to teach the undergrads. And so those individuals that are there they don't necessarily have a great deal of implant training. So it it's gaining respect the existing specialties around the country also.

Saad Alamgir 40:07

That's incredible. And that just goes to show how far and how well respected this program is. So kudos to y'all.

Dr. James Rutkowski 40:15

thank you. That's very kind of you to

Saad Alamgir 40:17

Yes, sir. But I had a question about so you had mentioned, even in the past couple as far as next year too, y'all are expanding clinics. How does. How is that working? Are y'all reaching out to, these all on X clinics and asking if they wanna be part of the residency program, or how does a existing doctor get involved to bring residents to their clinic?

Dr. James Rutkowski 40:39

the at this point in time, now we have individuals have heard of us, they're reaching out to us and say, how do I get an associate resident? Okay. I did very little recruiting of new sites this year. we've we've got an overabundance of sites that, I said that I, we like to keep our class size to 25. I will have more sites requesting residents than 25 this year. So we have to take a look at our own internal manpower and say, can we do more than 25?'cause I've got two year programs, so I've got 27 from the year before and I bring in 25. Am I capable of handling that many? This year I do have 46 because I had simplify over from three year. At the moment it's 46. But we went from having a class size of five and seven, our first two years where last year we did let 27 and we

Saad Alamgir 41:36

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 41:36

two seven. If individuals are reaching out to me and they're saying they, they either know me or they saw us on a podcast, or I go out and do these CE courses they come to me and they say, Hey, how do we get involved in the program as a director, also as a. Resident, and whether it's a full-time in-house resident or whether it's remote resident for those that are already well experienced being a diplomat of the A BOI or oral surgery Per or Pro that, but they're coming to us now. We actually have no external marketing. And so I appreciate the fact that you folks would invite me to come and speak to you because I'd love to have more people talking about the program. And that leads to more applicants. The more applicants we have, the better the applicants we're gonna have and the better program that we're gonna have. And who knows, maybe someday we would accept 30 or 35 in each class. But just as if you wanted to be in Jackson, Mississippi you've got an interest in program, and we'd say, okay, make your application. And I gotta stay in Jackson, Mississippi because my wife has a job, my spouse has a job there, and that's where we've gotta stay. And we're not ready to uproot our family. We have children and things of that nature. Okay, great. So you look in Jacksonville, Mississippi, there's gotta be somebody in Jackson, miss Mississippi, I would think, even though I've never been there. I would think that there's a practice or two that does a lot of implants and maybe they are oral surgery period, pross, all on X, maybe they're a diploma, American Board of Implantology. then you would learn about the program just as you are now. Then you would go and knock on their door and say, look, I would like to become a a, associate resident with you through Jacksonville University. And what that means is this. And we have information that you can give them. We give you the topping points, we say, if you would consider, and I'll be quite honest with you, when they hear that it's a stipend of$50,000 30% after 200,000 less lab fees they're pretty much interested. Okay.

Saad Alamgir 43:45

Yeah, I was about to say. Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 43:48

and quite honestly, I was a private practice and I had associates the first three to four months of new associates coming outta school. The owner is

Saad Alamgir 44:00

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:01

They're just not, they're not making you know

Victor Razi 44:04

Sure.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:05

patients don't want to go to'em, he looks awful young, eyes new, and people are nervous.

Saad Alamgir 44:09

Right.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:10

they go to give an inferior alveolar and their hands shaking, I don't know. How many of these have you got?

Saad Alamgir 44:15

Yeah.

Victor Razi 44:15

Appreciate it.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:18

It is okay, we're all there at one point in time and then your hands will settle down. Then you will reach a top point where your as result as me. Then your hands start

Victor Razi 44:26

It.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:26

over again

Saad Alamgir 44:30

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:30

shaking. But by the time our residents are there for four or five months, man, they're carrying water. And then most of my new resident directors, by the time they get that first resident on board and they've been on board for 10, 12 months, I'm getting a phone call. Can I get another resident for next year? Not that they wanna get rid of this one. They see, man, how well this works. Now I

Saad Alamgir 44:54

yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 44:54

do require that they don't treat you as underpaid labor. They are there to teach and they are there to give you implant training. And yeah, somebody comes in and they have a crown that came off. You might be resubmitting it, you might be rep prepping it, but you know what, it's an opportunity to see that patient. And maybe it's off at the gum line, maybe it's subgingival, maybe it's an implant. It's an opportunity for you to present that implant. And then if what we suggest, because we have agreements with multiple implant companies, with bone grafting companies, digital companies, hardware and software companies that give discounts to our residents and our resident directors for being in the Jacksonville University program. the prices that like Maxus gives us on bone grafting materials is just blowing.

Saad Alamgir 45:44

Unreal. Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 45:44

Yeah. It's, it really is. So they may present that case and maybe it typically has a. A of, we'll just say$15,000 is what the normal fee would be in that practice for that case. If the patient says, man, that's a little steeper than I want, then they can say we have a resident the case for$9,000. that's how a lot of the residents get their cases. And

Saad Alamgir 46:11

awesome.

Victor Razi 46:12

Interesting.

Dr. James Rutkowski 46:12

they do it under the supervision of that director and they get to say that they're clinical adjunct professor with Jacksonville University, which is always good for their resume. And they get to attend all of the classes that you attend. They get to watch all of the recordings that you watch. don't get to go to the Ivy Sedation class, but they do get to go through all our prosthetic classes, all our surgery classes, all our medical evaluation classes, every class we have, our practice management classes that we have our legal. that we have EE, everything that we've got, they are welcome to attend. It either lives at the session the round table, so they can be part of those, the Sunday nights. They can be part of those or they can watch the recordings if they wish to. offer one or two CE courses every year and they're allowed to attend those CE courses for free so they can get some of their CE through those programs. So that's what's in it for them. Plus they get a good young doctor that they can help mold. And I have, right now I have two practices where my resident ended up

Victor Razi 47:24

Oh, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing all that. Uh, Dr. Jim, uh, it, uh, I mean, you learn something new every day, but I didn't think we would learn this much about y'all and, and how y'all operate. And really just how, every, like I mentioned earlier, every category is catered towards. Learning and growing and, and being better. And it seems like just based on talking to you too, it's intense, but also a fun environment. And I think both of those are important to, to keep things going and to really enjoy what you do. So, we really appreciate the way you've presented, uh, your program. As we're wrapping up here, Dr. Jim, uh, do you have any final advice for dental students or, or new grads in general who are interested in implant dentistry or just dental advice, advice in general? Overall.

Dr. James Rutkowski 48:12

appreciate each patient for the important person they are. Every patient it is hopefully important in somebody else's life, but you'll do your best in clinical practice if you make each patient feel that you see the importance in them, okay? never sell a patient short. In other words, they might come in and their clothes might be all scruffy, and their shoes might be, need a shoe shine? And they, they look pretty bad, and they look pretty straggly. And don't judge them. Don't think, oh, this person would never be able to afford a higher level of dentistry, and I'm not gonna waste my time I found in my life that you should never judge anybody. Never judge anybody. And that's just a, that's just a good rule about life. Don't judge, be open. try to learn from everybody. Learn from people. Look them in the eye when you talk to them, when you're doing your case presentations. Let them know that what you're presenting there's various degrees of options and you don't care which one they take, but you do want to help them. You wanna know which one's the best for them and you're gonna, you will help them make that selection if they don't automatically know which one it is. But obviously, the higher level of the case, the more satisfaction you're gonna tend to have with it, okay? And if you, even if you do present implants and they don't take'em today, I promise you next time when they break a tooth in five years, or maybe they get that partial, or maybe they get that denture, or maybe they get that fixed bridge next time around. If you treat them right with sincerity and honesty and respect, the next time around, they're more apt to get that dental implant from you. Every time somebody comes in for a recare, a re-exam, them as though they're a brand new patient. Seeing them for the very first time, prejudge them. Don't, be happy to see them re bring'em back to recall. I mean that your mental recall and something about them and how their kids are and all that and whatnot. But you gotta look at'em with a new set of eyes because something is probably, maybe not, but a very good chance. Something is different in their mouth since the last time you saw'em six or 12 months ago. There's a tremendous amount of opportunities to give them the best oral health that they can get and want. And you be that provider for them, not just another

Victor Razi 51:04

Sure.

Dr. James Rutkowski 51:05

I gotta get you in and outta here so

Victor Razi 51:07

Dr. Jim, thank you for, for sharing that and first of all, sharing your story in the beginning. That's a unique story. I feel like not many people in dentistry have that story. Uh, so we appreciate it and we know our listeners do too. And we also appreciate you going into depth about your program that you're guiding. And it's very unique and Saada and I both got a lot ourselves and we really hope our listeners, uh, listen to you closely and understood that you took, you take this program very serious and you really want the best. So thanks for today man, and we really appreciate you.

Dr. James Rutkowski 51:39

You, you're welcome. I don't know

Saad Alamgir 51:40

Yes, sir.

Dr. James Rutkowski 51:41

if in that, if in the chat there or however you wanna do it, if you wanna give them correct spelling, my name, my phone number, text me if they call and they're not in my phone. It's not gonna ring because of span blockers. if they can text me, they can text me their, their contact card and then I can just click on it and it gets in there. Then they can, we can call or we can set up a time on text to talk on the telephone.

Saad Alamgir 52:06

absolutely

Dr. James Rutkowski 52:08

It's okay. And you gimme the ju email, I'm just like you, man. I get far too many emails and

Saad Alamgir 52:15

right?

Dr. James Rutkowski 52:16

just you guys sent me an email I think last Friday and I could not find email

Saad Alamgir 52:20

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 52:20

to save life whenever it

Victor Razi 52:22

Sure.

Dr. James Rutkowski 52:23

emails almost become

Victor Razi 52:25

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir 52:27

Yeah.

Dr. James Rutkowski 52:28

Yeah,

Saad Alamgir 52:28

Dr. Jim, I just wanna thank you again for your time. I do wanna say your enthusiasm is so contagious. Even, talking about your journey to dentistry and how passionate you are about dentistry in general, and how excited you are for us as dental students and, just talking about your program, I just see, I see a light, your eyes light up when you talk about it, and it means a lot when someone says, dentistry, is rewarding, but it's another thing to see it. And

Dr. James Rutkowski 52:56

Yeah.

Saad Alamgir 52:56

the life you're living and the things that you're doing and the way you talk about your program and dentistry and, Jacksonville it's very apparent for anyone who's listening to this to see that. So I really appreciate that passion, and man you're incredible. Made this program and so what it is, and I think that you deserve your flowers for that. So kudos to you.

Dr. James Rutkowski 53:17

thank you. To you guys. Here you're your undergrad students or undergrad. Dental students You've got a podcast. Man, that's fantastic. I gotta salute you for what you're doing. You're gonna

Saad Alamgir 53:28

Yes, sir. When we have, unique individuals like you on our podcast, this is reminds us of why we do it. And I think our listeners will get a lot out of this. And they've learned a lot about Jacksonville University and you as an individual and the fact you're willing to give your phone number out to, just the internet. Just a testament of who you are. So thank you for this conversation and thank you for everything.

Dr. James Rutkowski 53:49

You're welcome. You're welcome. You guys have a great evening. I've enjoyed this

Saad Alamgir 53:52

Yes,

Victor Razi 53:53

Hi, Dr.