Parenting Unplugged: Breaking the Rules to Build Deeper Bonds

What if parenting could be more than just giving orders and managing chaos? In this eye-opening episode, parenting expert Jen reveals a revolutionary approach to parenting that goes beyond traditional methods.

Discover the powerful "FUN" framework that transforms how you connect with your children:

• Fulfilling: Creating meaningful interactions that matter
• Unlimited Conversations: Building trust through open dialogue
• Natural: Parenting authentically without pretense

Jen shares raw, practical insights from her experience as a mother of four, including:

• How to customize your parenting approach for different personalities
• Secrets to staying calm during challenging moments
• Surprising techniques to reset your emotional state
• The neuroscience behind children's emotional development

Special highlight: A fascinating explanation of how children's brains develop, inspired by Dan Siegel's groundbreaking research, that will change how you understand your child's behavior.

Whether you're a stressed parent, a new mom or dad, or someone seeking a more connected approach to raising children, this episode offers a lifeline of hope, understanding, and practical strategies.

Get ready to break the rules and build deeper, more meaningful bonds with your children.

PS: Here is the calendar link for the free conversation with Jan:  https://calendly.com/usandkids/fun-session

and here is the link to the podcast section of Jan's website if you want to find out more: https://www.usandkids.com/blog.

Make sure you hit subscribe if you haven’t already. And, if you’d like to check out my other channels...

YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@LupWaiChan
Website: www.lupwaiparentwhisperer.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/lupwaiparentwhisperer

Transcript

  Hey hi everyone and welcome Jan back to our podcast today and today she's going to share about fun parenting. So let's let Jan share what this fun is  about parenting.  Let's welcome Jan.  Hi everyone and thank you for joining us on this podcast. Fun parenting. I think by the end of the Did I have any fun at all?

Did I ever laugh with my kids?  Or, was I just giving orders all day long? Was I just correcting and saying, sit down and wait? Or hurry up, we gotta go.  Did we ever have a conversation? What will my kids remember? What will they think about this?  Let's lean into the word fun for a minute.  Because fun, I agree, is laughing, having something playful or lighthearted.

Those kinds of things are indeed fun. But fun can go a little deeper than that in my mind, and it builds better memories.  Because fun can stand for, is it fulfilling, meaning is it satisfying?  When you and your kiddos are done with something, and it could just be doing dishes, did you build a little bit better connection with each other? 

So that it was worth your time, not just because the dishes are done, or something is folded, or the toys are put away, but because you spent actual time with each other. So are you a little bit more fulfilled?  Are you satisfied? And then, the U is for, how do we make it so that we can have unlimited conversations?

Meaning we can talk about anything. Anything at all.  Okay, so we can talk about how are babies made. In a way that's appropriate for anybody at any age and stage. But we can also talk about why it's important to not lie.  Or why it's important that you're kinder to your sibling.  And we can do that with compassion, and we can do that with maybe some humor. 

Okay, that just keeps us connected with each other. Because now that conversation will be fulfilling, and we will not be frightened to approach anything.  That's true. And our kids will come with us to talk about anything.  Okay, this to me is really fulfilling parenting. The third part of fun is the N, and the N is we want it to be naturally good. 

This isn't an effort to make you put on like your parenting clothes, and now I'm a parent and this is how I behave, okay? I'm always thinking through sort of the, the metrics of how do we make this happen, okay? That can be fun. Interesting to do, but it's probably not going to build the connection that you want, because you now are out, you now are out of character,  and you're not being true to yourself, and to who you are,  and somewhere in the fun, we want it to be natural for you, and natural to your kiddo. 

How do we do that between those two?  Because some of our kiddos are introverts, right? They get worn out with the noise and the crazy in all the activity.  And, our other kiddos  are, love that noise and that activity. And we have both things going on  at the same time.  How do we make it naturally good to live within your family unit?

Even when your kiddos have different personalities. And, not only that, they're different than yours. Or your spouse's. They're a whole mishmash of things.   Let's back up just a little bit farther. Is that making sense to you so far? Yeah. Yes. Yes. And everyone is always talking about the fun about parenting, but  I think it's a very surface.

We are touching base on the very surface of about fun parenting. But what is that fun about? And you describe it really well about having the fulfillment,  the unlimited conversation, no matter what conversation it is, we can still talk about it so that the child feels  comfortable and open to share with you if they have any questions. 

Yeah. And being natural as well. If you have questions towards your child, you can ask them. There's enough trust built in that so that the kiddo can answer to   a four year old is going to have a different answer than a 14 year old here.  But according to their age, they still have knowledge. 

Yeah. They still want to know that their mom and dad value their knowledge or their perspective.  Agreed.  The part about the having all having different character or some introvert, some extrovert, I think that's the part where a lot of parents will struggle. Like, how do I manage  if I  am different from my child or if the two children are different? 

I think that's a lot of struggle for many parents.   I would agree, and I have four kids, and every time we just, we would look at each other, my husband and I, when we would go, Okay, what do we do with this? Because how we did a situation, especially bedtime stuff, with one kiddo didn't work for the other one.

And then we added a third kiddo, and that kiddo wanted a different approach. And now we're trying to put four kids to bed all with a little different approach.  Yep. And they're not often big switches. They're often just little three to five degree changes.  Okay. So one kiddo wants us. Um, we're a Christian based family, so we pray at night with our kids and one kiddo wants us to pray sitting on the floor next to them, but don't touch them  because they're getting ready to go to sleep and they don't want to be touched when they go to sleep.

Another kiddo wants to sit on our lap with all of the lights on and the room is an absolute chaos mess. Clothes have not been put away, but all they want to do to end their day is snuggle with their mom on their lap and say their prayers.   Wow.  Yeah. And so in that, instead of saying, no, this is the right way to do this.

However, you would like to talk to Jesus at the end of the day is fine with me.  Okay. But as the kiddos got older,  when the 10 year old turned 13 and 14, even a little, maybe even at 10, but wanted to do some journaling first.  That's a good one. Yeah. So you want to journal first, then you come to me.

You don't get to journal to Mbinda. You have about 20 minutes here to journal.  Okay.  I'm not dragging this on forever.  My personality, right? Yeah. But you want to journal, then you come and get me. Agree.  Ten old enough to come and get me.  And that honors her personal space  and honors our desire to say a nighttime prayer with our kids. 

Nice. And see how we have to, you have to blend that, but we have to listen to what do you want and how can I do that?  Yeah. I think that's the thing, like you have to customize to different kids.  But a lot of parents, like nowadays, because both parents are working most of the time, and they get too tired, it's too tiring and too tedious to customize to each child. 

I would say yes, and I would say no, because if I didn't customize, I was going to have two out of those three kids. The other one was infant, so we were just Being infanting, right? We're just walking  and patting bottoms and things, but the other three at that stage, if I cook it like box them into, this is what has, this is how it has to be. 

Two of the three were going to fight me.  Yeah,  I agree.  So it's easier to say, what's your best way to do this?  Okay, the kiddo whose room is a disaster.  Okay, if I had pushed, this has to be picked up, I would have had a fight every night.  Oh, yeah,  this kiddo doesn't care. I had to decide. I didn't care. 

Okay. What is this kiddo do this kiddo wakes up early all the time  and will organize her room instead of coming to wake me up. Fine. You be seven and do that all day long,  right? I had to change my approach. And so I wanted all neat before we go to bed. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.  But  how do we manage like parents who think that if we customize some of the thing that we are over pampering the child? 

I would say, I don't think I'm over pampering. I think I'm honoring.  Okay. Yeah, they get their way, but we still have to be in bed by this time. We still  are going to sleep.  Nobody gets to say, at least not in my world, I would like to watch this movie. And it's eight o'clock at night, like,  no,  that's not a conversation. 

I think that's when we have to set like certain rules and regulations.  That's where everyone has to follow.  Yeah. I mean, we said,  at supper time. You have to come and sit at supper. Yeah. Now, supper for the kids was late. Supper for my husband was six o'clock. That's when he could likely get home.

Yeah. But those kids came home from school at 3. And then  I let them snack their way all the way up to supper.  How did I do that? I fed them food they would have eaten at supper anyways. They just didn't have it on their dinner plate.  So they had veggies and dip. They had an apple. They had crackers  with some cheese. 

Okay? Because they're hungry. But we wanted family meal.  Yes. And so they had to come and sit, and then they would have some of the meat that I prepared, and maybe if I made some yummy potatoes or something, they'd add something like that. My husband and I, we ate dinner. We were hungry. 

Sometimes the kids weren't. They still had to sit. We still had some cards on the table that helped make some conversation things.  We still asked, where did you see God today and heard their funny answers. We still, we had a daughter who would, out of the blue, slap her knee. And she would, nothing is happening.

And she would slap her knee and she would go,  slap her knee.  What would happen? We would all burst out laughing. She's four or five maybe.  But it was just hilarious. And whenever she wanted to lighten the mood, she'd slap her knee.  And go, that's a knee slapper. And the whole mood would change.  She wasn't eating food,  but we made it that dinner was about conversation  and connection more than about the food. 

Yeah.  Yeah. It's yeah.  That's a good way, especially with busy parents nowadays. Yeah.  Having more than one child, it's,  some of them are like pulling their hair out, like how do we manage everything  and not be triggered  that easily. Yes, yeah, and some of that in my mind  for having a fulfilling parenting space.

Is it to put you and your spouse together, what do we want our kids to look like and be like  by the time they're in their teenagers? What skills do we want them to have? What do we want our relationship with them to be like? In my coaching program,  in my video program, we talk about what are your desires? 

What are your dreams when you think of my dream family? Okay. What does that look like?  Okay, now let's make sure that it's realistic.  Okay? If neither one of you are athletes and you want to work with world class athletes, that might be challenging.  . Yes.  So we gotta be realistic. Okay. And my husband and I parented them more towards what character trait do we want our children to have? 

And then we parented towards that because we knew that that was what was going to be fulfilling to us.  Did our kids know how to be kind? Did they know how to tell the truth even when it was hard?  Did they know how to step up and be helpful even if they didn't want to?  Did they know how to be responsible with their own things? 

And be respectful of others things, even if they're on the stairs and it looks like you should just step on it. Would you be willing to just step over it?  Yeah. Don't smash the Lego collection, creation. I know it's on the steps.  Slide it to the edge, don't step on it, don't kick it down the stairs, step over it,  okay?

So  when parents set those kinds of ideas in front of them,  then they can work their parenting towards the kiddo in a way that is age appropriate.  Agree.  I talk about it in terms of the D, the N, and the A. Now, this is different than the fun. Sorry.  The D is what is your desires? What are your dreams for your family?

Especially in terms of character development.  Okay. And then the N is what are the necessary skills that you're going to use to help to train or to raise or to teach your kiddo  how to live into those character traits. Okay. So we're going to talk about how are you going to talk to them? How are you going to help them learn how to listen?

How are you going to help them understand emotional regulation?  Okay, I agree  Those kinds of things and then how do we use those skills for a four year old versus a seven year old versus a ten year old Versus a fourteen year old  because I'm hoping that you aren't talking to your four year old like a fourteen year old  I'm hoping that you're not talking to your 14 year old like a 4 year old. 

Yeah, that's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of skills that we need to be conscious and be aware of  whenever we are dealing with our children at different age, with different characters.  And we have to be always conscious about how do we talk to them, what kind of words or language that we want to tell, we want to share with them as well. 

Well, because in that parenting, our kiddos are going to follow us. The communication rule across the languages is the same. It is about 80 to 85 percent nonverbal. That's what our kids are following  is the nonverbal. We have, we still have to use words to teach, but if our words don't match our actions, our kiddos are going to follow our actions. 

We say be nice  to our kiddo.  Well,  yes,  but if we bend down to my three year old or my five year old  and I say, how can we be kinder? How can we be nicer with this?  I agree. It's your doll. Now,  how are we going to ask for your doll when Susie is done with it?  Okay. And we're going to, because I agree, it's her doll.

And I agree. A friend has had it for quite a while and doesn't want to give it back. And I can see where a little kiddo's brain is going, it's my doll, it's my doll.  I'm going to keep it forever.  And that anxiety. So how are we going to be kind, even when we ask for our dolly back?  Yeah, I think that's a lot of,  a lot of consciousness  that we have to be aware of in order to  train them or to parent them the way that we desire.

Like what you mentioned is be nice to them. It's the action and the words doesn't match. And a lot of time parents do not realize that because they can't see how they are behaving or what they are saying.  Yeah, it's very easy.  I've been a parent a long time and, , I got a lot of grandkids and so I do grand parenting, parenting, um, but also help my kids with, with their struggles in some ways. 

And the  energy it takes to stay calm.  It's less than the energy it takes to become riled up.   Interesting. It's flip.  Yeah. It flips over. We think I don't have the energy to calm myself down. The energy you're spending on your anxiety and your angst. About a situation is about four times more than what it would take if you took a deep breath and said  low and slow.

Just go low and slow. Lower your voice and slow down. Slow down that pentameter. This slow, you hear it?  Because if we can slow down our pentameter,  we can, the rate of our speech. Our heart rate goes down, you know what? So does our ketose.  Now our brain can rebalance. We can clear out cortisol, and adrenaline, and both of us can do that thinking. 

Have you encountered parents like  they are so angst that they can't calm down, they just want to let it all out? Yes. How do this kind of parents deal with that?  How do they remind themselves?  They're just so tired. It is tiring to be that wound up all the time. It is.  And I want to just reassure those parents that you're okay. 

What you bring to this little one is not accidental.  Okay, there's not,  birth and conception is a miracle.  when you look at the stats, it's a doggone miracle. And so this child didn't come to you by accident.  This is on purpose belongs to you for a good reason. And it's for your kiddos growth. And for your growth. 

So, take a deep breath. Be honored by your kiddo's presence.  Not ashamed. Be honored. Nobody  else can be this kiddo's parent. You are it.  So now, don't add like a brick of pressure on yourself. Okay? Now take a deep breath.  And just live a little bit more into what a treasure you have.  Okay, because your kindness and  your  enjoyment of your kiddo will bring out the kindness and the enjoyment of your kiddo back to you. 

It's also going to bring peace in your house. 

Okay, parents lead, kids follow,  and kids do not want to lead.  They are frightened. in leading. They want a mom and dad to follow.  So calm down and be followable.  That's very nice. That's, that's what I think a lot of parents have to hear.  Yeah.  Yeah.  it takes two and a half seconds to hold your kiddo's hand. 

Okay. And so you have two and a half seconds. Here's my kiddo's hand. And I hold it like this and I give it a little squeeze.  Okay. And then I say, want some potatoes? And I let go of their hand so I can give them some potatoes.  This connection point to their hand, this is a rather poor looking hand, but this connection point, both of you feel it, that sends all sorts of information into your brain about, I belong, I'm important, I'm valued.

And all it is, is a quick little handhold,  all it is is a quick little touch on the head.  That skin to skin touch. Skin to skin. It's that quick little kiss on the cheek or kiss on the forehead. 

Okay? It doesn't take time, in my mind, to do those things.  Yeah, I agree. I still remember once I saw one kiddo who was like screaming his lungs out. Yes. And the mom was like super calm,  arranging the table  because we were at a cafe. So she was arranging the table, make sure all the food are displayed nicely.

And then she carry  the screaming child and just hug.  And then after a while, that few minutes later, the child calms down  and started to eat. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was like, wow, 

yeah, because mama knew that the connection was going to matter  and she was going to be able to be more calm when she had her table set. So she took care of that for a minute. I do not know a child who has died from crying.  Okay. Yeah. I think  that's. When she's, I think when she's like arranging the table is also calming herself. 

Yes, I think she was. Yes, because  If her table was set she could say that's done now. I can really give my all to him. Yeah Otherwise, I'll be like, which one do I do first? What do I do now?  If she's trying to calm it while she's holding him, then he's squirming and he's gonna kick something over  That's gonna be messy.

Yeah , that's so important and this Fun  is such a basic fundamental that we all have to  follow and  apply. Yes.  While we parent our children. Yes, yeah. I want to encourage spouses to help each other.  That's very important. Okay, pass the baton. You're too tired and this kiddo is making you crazy. 

You guys have a little signal between each other. Okay, and we had a signal, one of them was a wink. And so it looked funny or friendly, but it was trade.  It was that bad, but  we knew.  You're on the teeth with those kids, I'm over here. Yeah. I think that partnership is important. Yes. Yeah. And if you don't have a partner during the 10 tensor times, then give yourself a minute. 

Okay. Let the kids scream and be crazy. You just go wash your face or wash your hands.  That touch of water to face and to skin really helps our brain change and reset.  Take a deep breath.  Hold your cup of coffee for a minute.  Okay. Avoid the alcohol.  Do that after bedtime.  Avoid it right now. It doesn't help your brain think better. 

True. Yeah.  That's really  useful. Like  washing your hand, washing your face. It kind of like the signal that's sent through your body, it really calms you down. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And when you are calm, your kiddos are going to be able to follow you and it will often take three to 10 minutes before they will follow you, but they will.

Be the leader  and set the timer on your phone if you need to. Three minutes, where are we at?  Reset, need three more.  Agree, yeah. Okay.  Yeah, that's  really helpful. And that's very useful as well, because no one has ever mentioned to me about washing hand and washing face  to calm them down.

Usually it's take a deep breath.  Yeah, that's not enough.  When you're wound up, one deep breath isn't going to do it. Yeah. And when you're  And now I'm so mad. It's like you're pumping up instead.  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah, just go wash your hands or wash your face. Brush your hair. Look at all those things attached to the top of your head.

And when you're going to brush through them,  your brain gets all sorts of little different messages and lets the electronic messaging rearrange a little bit. All you did was brush your hair. Yeah, or   just  scratch it.  That's, wow, that's something that has been overlooked  by many people.  And I think none of  the people that I've spoke to have talked to me as  washing the hands or scratching your head or combing your head, hair. 

And this is very  basic.  And easily done, especially when you are like  pent or vent up. Yes. And that distract you as well. Distract you from the situation. Yes. Yes, but the other thing it does is it makes you take a different kind of breath.  Ah.  So the deep breath is not inappropriate, but doing it on its own often is ineffective.

 Okay, if we hold a cup of hot water, that warmth in our hand sends messages to our brain that say settle down.  Okay. Yeah.  Okay. We drink something. There's so many nerve endings inside that mouth that change how we pray, how we think and how we process.  And that changes our breathing, right?  I agree.

 It's like in the morning you wake up, you feel so tired. And then after a cup of coffee or tea, you feel so calm. You can start your day. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.  That's so easy to do,  but it's not  remembered to be done  when dealing with the kids.   Yes. So we talked about,  where do you want your kiddos to end up like, and then talking about talking to them sort of that they're at their age and space.

 And then that you is those unlimited,  conversations. And often we have to bring them up, they're hard to do,  but remembering to talk at the age that your kiddo is, I talk about lying to a four year old who's just getting the concept is different than talking to a 14 year old about it. But our ability to stay calm and to say, we have to talk about something, I want you to learn something new or think about this a different way. 

And then we're not going to talk so much about whether or not it's right or wrong. We're going to talk about how it impacts the other people we're around.  Yeah, I like that.  Okay. That builds the empathy that says, I wouldn't lie to my friend. It would really insult them and hurt them.  Okay. If I lie about this, my parents will eventually find out.

That's gonna break trust. I don't wanna do that. And we talk more about what's gonna happen within the relationships  in those unlimited conversations.  Okay. Yeah, it does to our character and our identity. Then whether or not it's a right thing to do or a wrong thing to do.  Because we want them to consider their, the personal impact and the social impact on what their choices are. 

Oh, that's a good way to teach about empathy and having them to realize that what's the consequences if you do certain things, rather than telling them straight that, oh, this is right or this is wrong. You have to think farther down the road. Yeah,  that, that is a good way to guide and teach the children how  they should react in different kind of situations. 

So when we start to teach that, now we're teaching into our dreams and our desires what we wanted our kiddo to look like and behave right? And as we do that kind of teaching,  and our kids brains are calm because I'm not going to talk about you just lied. Just to a kiddo who's upset, they can't hear me, they're upset. 

We have to now talk this down into a different place,   that says when we're all, when we've all thought about this a little bit, we're going to come back and talk about it.  But we're going to be calm because we're going to think about what we could do different.  Yeah,  that's how we build those unlimited conversations. 

That's good. That's a good one. Wow. I learned so much today from you. 

Is there anything else to add on for this fun parenting?  If I have three minutes, I would teach you about Dan Siegel.  Dan Siegel writes in the English speaking world, the whole brain child. And he talks about that a kid,  this is your brain stem. Here, this is your brain. Okay. A, an adult brain looks like this.

 The messaging from the brainstem coming up here is coming in to your emotional place right here into your thumb. This is tucked into the center of your brain. And when you are born, this part of your brain is fairly well developed. This part of your brain has no fingers.  I cannot bend my fingers backwards.

So just pretend  there are no fingers. Okay. Okay. This is why your baby is all emotions. Because this is the emotional center of your brain.  This is why your baby cries.  This is why when he giggles, he does a belly laugh and it's so fun.  Okay, as we grow,  it takes about four years for these fingers to develop. 

And as they develop in America, and I think where you guys are too, sometimes people put out like balloons that are like tall, really tall, and then they blow air on them and the thing flops around like this and you're supposed to come into their store and buy something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Flops all over the place.

That's what these are like in a little kid, in a two year old, in a four year old. They're flopping all over the place. They are not well developed. You can't really tell what's going on. This is where logic and reasoning is growing.  And as they grow, they become heavy and they go like this and watch.

They talk right in.  Now look at logic and reasoning can talk to emotions.  Wow. You see how that works? Yes. And see how they connected. Yeah, now we're connected. But when adults and when kiddos get distressed, get anxious,  get overtired, get too hungry, they go,  and we call blow their lid.  Reasoning and logic are no longer connected to emotion.

Emotion is still connected to brainstem. Reasoning or logic is not. So whatever's going on up here, doesn't come out their mouth. Just wailing, complaining, loud noises, stomping. 

This is where our breath,  our washing our face, our hands, helps these guys go, Oh yeah, I am. And they come back down here. Wow. Now we're connected. Yes. Now we can think. And  kiddos brains to be like when we're talking about something serious.  Okay, when they're running around the house crazy, laughing and giggling and throwing a ball or,  acting like airplanes, whatever they're doing, this kind of run around with your lid flipped, go for it, have a ball, okay?

When you just gotta giggle so hard that,  you, I don't know,  you just giggle and giggle and giggle. Till your tummy aches. That's a wonderful. Do it all day long. But when you have to use conversation, we need to have logic tucked in.  All have them all connected. Yes, all connected, but I want you to remember our two year olds can't do this.

They don't have it.  Our two year olds, we simply are going to calm and help them practice good behavior in words.  By four, five, and six, we can begin to see this grow, but we have to help them,  okay? By helping them have good conversation with them, ask them why they're thinking what they're thinking, honor their answers. 

Because that's what Julie said. Oh, okay. How would Julie know that? Tell me more about Julie.  Okay? Now, Julie's a dumb person. Don't listen to her.  Okay? Because you just blew your lid. Well, your kid's gonna do that too. Yeah. Yeah.  Tell me more about Julie. 

Okay. So that's my three minute, Mr. Dan Siegel. Wow. Brainstorm  information. Thank you, Jan. That's really, really useful. And that's, with the visual, it's so much easier to explain to parents as well. Yes. Or let the parents know, like, how a child will behave and how you should be connecting  the brains. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And just a final note, people say that looks like a punch and I'm like, oh no, no, this is an all body hug. That's what this is. We're just all hugged in. This is an all body hug. This isn't a punch. Don't punch. Just a really sweet hug.  So one last thing, what is one advice you would like to give to the parents? 

I would like to say to parents, take care of your marriage  because how you treat your spouse. Is how your kids are going to learn to treat other people.  Your kindness, your cooperation,  your conversations, even when there's some tension in how you treat each other is what your kiddos are going to do. 

So I agree with that is important. Your marriage is still what they are going to follow.  I agree with that. Yeah. Thank you, Jan.  That's really useful, and  I've learned so much from you today.  Thank you, I'm really glad to be here. So many nuggets I can bring back and practice on my own as well.  always, but even as I talk, and I'm around grandkids often, I'm like, and Jan, you should remember that too,  reminding myself.

Yeah, it's a great reminder, especially during  nowadays that we are so busy with our life, sometimes we just forget.  And this is a great reminder for ourselves. And looking at the hand straight away, you can, you know that what we should do  when certain,  how to say, certain mood came out.  Yes. Yeah. 

Thank you. Thank you so much, Jan. So happy to have you here and share with all the audience, all the golden nuggets.  Amen. And to all our audience who are listening,  Jan is going to give a free one hour one to one conversation about parenting situations that you are  struggling with. And, or maybe not sure how to deal with, Jan will be here  to guide you along. 

So I'll be sharing her link to book a call with her on the show notes. So if you want, if you're struggling with any of  parenting situations or emotions,  let her know and make a call, book a call with her.  All right. Thank you, Jan. Thank you so much for sharing and thank you everyone for listening in. 

Indeed. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks. Bye.