Hypothetically Intentional

Intentional Parenting: Navigating Fear, Control, and Soul Growth with Sam Franklin

• Michelle Aalbers • Season 4 • Episode 1

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Happy Mother’s Day! Whether you are a parent, have a parent, or are currently "in progress," today’s conversation is a deep dive into the most challenging and rewarding relationship we can navigate as humans. 

In this Season 4 premiere of Hypothetically Intentional, I’m joined by therapist and Intuitive Coach, Sam Franklin. Sam is currently awaiting the arrival of their first child, and we explore the profound transition from the spiritual soul realm into the messy reality of the human experience. 

In this episode, we unpack:

  • The Mount Everest of Control: How parenthood forces us to confront our need for certainty and embrace the beauty of surrender. 
  • Modeling Humanness: The power of the parental apology and why moving away from hierarchy creates deeper intimacy. 
  • Beginner’s Mind: Reclaiming the sense of wonder we often lose as adults through the eyes of our children. 
  • The Healer’s Lens in Parenting: Navigating the "empath’s dilemma", feeling your child’s pain without needing to fix it. 

Join us for an honest, vulnerable reflection on authoring a new narrative for your family, one rooted in intentionality, kindness, and grace.

Connect with Sam:

Website: https://www.samintuitivecoach.com/

Social Media: @samintuitivecoach

Send us Fan Mail

This podcast is provided for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute providing professional medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or professional healthcare services.

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Music Credit Through Season 3 Episode 41
Title: Ebb and Flow
Author: Fabian Measures https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Fabian_Measures/
Source: Free Music Archive https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Fabian_Measures/Singles_Album/Ebb_and_Flow_1829/
Licence: CC BY 4.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/


SPEAKER_01

Hi, and welcome to Hypothetically Intentional, where we ask the question what if we set intentions with everything we do? I'm your host, Michelle Aubers, and today I have Sam Franklin back with me. Welcome, Sam. Thanks for having me again. So we are recording for the launch, like the beginning of season four, episode one, which happens to land on Mother's Day. Uh, which I find beautiful knowing what I know about where we're gonna go in our conversation today. But before we do that, we should set an intention. Do you feel one coming in, or should I drop into an intention? Feel free to drop into one. I I think my intention today, it's gonna might sound silly, but my intention today is to be as accurate as possible in my reflecting on my journey of parenthood. Because I know as a parent, we tend to rewrite the narratives so they feel better or so they fit better, or or or uh, and I just really want to invite myself to be open for truly recollecting the memories and just being open and honest and vulnerable about that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, which I appreciate. I would love the authentic truth of what it really means or what it's like to be a parent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And so I alluded to it at the beginning, but you are it's weird, you're already a parent because baby is in progress.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, but baby has not arrived in in or onto Earth yet. So, and this is your first child.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Yes. So my wife is um due June 7th. Amazing. Oh, that's gonna be here so quickly. It really is. Time has been flying by the last month or two.

SPEAKER_01

That was gonna be my next my first question is like, how has time been since you found out uh you were going to be a parent?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, it's just been like the whole journey's been interesting because it has felt so slow, like leading up to getting pregnant and I kind of getting frustrated with the universe of like, why, why is this not happening? You know, and and that's where it's like really trying to find that balance of like what do like me, my wife need to do, and what is divine timing? And I remember even like taking time to like meditate and time to myself to be like, okay, if we're gonna be like spending money to try to make this happen, like I want to like have divine timing work, like I don't want to be forcing something. So, like, when should we be trying? And I had gotten a message of like before the seasons change from summer to fall, and then um before the leaves fall to the ground. Um, and so we ended up getting pregnant actually at the end of September. So that was really interesting. And then um things were just kind of moving along. It felt so far away, and then the last like few months, I just feel like they cranked up the time and it's just been flying by.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So this is a super open general question, and it's a big one. But like in general, how are you feeling about bringing a child into the world and becoming a parent? And like, there's so many layers to that, right? Like just that in general, but then you and your relationship with your wife, and then what it means to be a parent. I would just love to hear all of it because I just think parenthood is such a magnificent, interesting journey that I wasn't doing this work when I became a parent. And so once I started doing this work, I look backwards and I I had a lot of guilt and shame to start with because I didn't like how I showed up. I've since had conversations with my boys and like it's good, but and I've healed from that. But I just I'm curious, you know, because you are doing this work, you are on an intuitive spiritual self-love journey, and at least that's how it appears to me. I mean, that's how it seems you show up in the world. And so I just so curious about where you're at with regard to all of that. That was a big yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let's see where, like, intuitively I feel pulled to go to. Um yeah. Well, me and my wife have been together for 10 years, you know. And I think the person that I was and that she was when we first met, like, I think we would just been different parents um than we are gonna be now. I feel a lot more settled going into this than I think if we would have had our first kid, even like five years ago. Um, I think I would have felt more like unprepared or anxious or worried about how I was gonna show up. I mean, not that I'm not feeling anxious or things like that. Like, this is like I'm gonna be in charge of a whole human, you know. Like there's like that reality when it hits me, I'm like, oh gosh, okay. But I feel a lot more prepared in terms of like grounded in myself. And like me and my wife have done so much work, not just on ourselves, but on our relationship. So I feel pretty solid, like going into I think as much as you can going into this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's funny. As you were talking about that, and just like you've been together for 10 years and you feel pretty grounded. It's funny because my perspective of me, I always knew I wanted to be a parent. I always knew I wanted children. That was just part of like my purpose. I mean, it was just a call, a calling. I knew I've all I've I mean, I taught preschool before I had kids of my own. I've just always been a I don't know, human kids, like they matter. Yeah, and they're they're but I was I think I was more nervous than I let on or something because my mom I remember when my first was born, my mom just looked at me and she goes, You're just so confident. You just seem so comfortable. And I was like, Well, I mean, I taught preschool for a long time. I learned a lot about what not to do from most parents and about what to do as well. Like you learn a lot in just that observation and just from the kids. I mean, granted, they're not infants, but my kid's gonna be two before I know it, and three, and four, and five. Um, but her perception was, oh, you're just so comfortable. And I was like, Oh my god, they're gonna send this little being home with me like two days after, like what? Or five days, or whatever it was. I just I think, oh, I I well, I don't know how to do this. On the one hand, there was a piece of me that was that, but there was another piece of me that was just so I knew that it was supposed to be part of my life, and so it's like both the dualities that show up in parenting are kind of mind-boggling, like it's they don't make sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and like the I think this because I'm more spiritual now, more connected into that, I feel more settled. What was what I was like thinking about, or what just popped in my head as you were talking, was the day that I got married to my wife, I was like so calm, which is not like me. I'm someone that like I'm a planner, I like to control things, and like the fact that and I had planned pretty much all of our wedding. And so, you know, well, how I usually am, I think everyone was expecting, like, you know, my family, my friends, like the people closest to me in my wedding party, were like, you're so calm. Cause I think they thought that I would be like so anxious, worried about how everything's gonna go. And I was just like, no, I just feel like this is what's supposed to happen. This is my person. I had had a spiritual message basically come to me. This is before I knew I was intuitive, come to me where like my relatives who had passed, like met me in my mind in my grandma's home and was like gave me their blessing to marry my wife, like right before I proposed. And I feel like that's happening with this, where I just feel like grounded of like me and my wife are supposed to have this baby. So that helps with all of the other feelings that I have about being a parent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Do you want to speak a little bit about those?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, it, you know, it's again the control stuff comes in. Like, I'm noticing that of like, okay, how can I prepare our home perfectly so that when we get back from the hospital, everything will be set up and we won't need to do anything. And I'm really trying to find this balance of like, you can't prepare in so many ways. Like you can, but like not fully. You're just like things will unfold, you'll kind of get the hang of like how you're gonna be taking care of this baby, what works for me and my wife. Um, but the other part of me is like, we gotta take all the classes, learn all the information, like have all the products and like have the plan before we even arrive home.

unknown

Yeah. Good luck.

SPEAKER_01

Good luck. My boys are 25 and 28. Uh, and I don't know, the whole time you were talking, maybe not the whole time, but there was a moment in there where you started talking about control, and I just kept seeing the Wheel of Fortune card because it's so much about control, but it's but it's about letting go of control and just understanding like it's so much better beyond the control. If you can just and it's not like be mindless, it's not be, you know, unintentional, but when you can be really intentional, and I don't know, I'm probably gonna go down a route here and you can stop me if it gets like some kind of way. But I just think like our kids have a way of showing us our stuff and like in a really amplified way. So you say you're you like control now. That not necessarily, but like for me, all all of like my kids showed me all my stuff and I wasn't even doing this work then. Like I didn't even know what that meant, but it was just like I have a incredible fear of this, I have an incredible fear of that, right? And it was just like this I wanted to control everything, I wanted to protect them from everything. But what that does is steal them from the ability to show up in the world and and be in a world that is never gonna have that kind of protection. And so it was like this enabling versus empowering thing that I just didn't understand then. And I remember I hit a point where I was doing this work, you know. I mean, I was older. I was, I mean, my kids were older too. I mean, I was 41. So, and I think I had I had Jake when I was 28. So it's like, I was like, oh my God, I don't know how they're gonna survive. Like, it's terrible. Not that I didn't trust them, because they did, they did just fine. They're doing just fine, they're doing great, actually. But there was a moment where I was like, they really haven't had a lot of pain. This was pre-a certain point. There was a point where, you know, when they're little, little, their their boo-boos are just almost like kissable and love, you love them through it, and that's fairly easy. They're just they haven't had the way to the world yet. And then as they get older, there's a point where you're just like, oh, now the problems are bigger, and I don't know how to mom this one. Like, I don't I don't know how to do this. Uh and I was more comfortable with the little stuff. So on that note, like I think my mom was right in that I was confident. I'm like, I've been teaching preschool for you know, I my degree is in child psychology. I'm not afraid of the little part, it's the bigger part where you're just like, Oh, how do I help you through that when I didn't navigate that kind of thing myself very well?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that like that will even come up with like my clients, like my therapy or my coaching work. Um, that job is a mirror as well. Like you cannot run from your stuff. And there's times where you're like, I can't fix this, or I'm just I'm gonna watch you make this decision that I feel like I know what's probably gonna happen, but I can't control that or change that or you know, sit with people's pain um and just make space for it. And I've worked with a lot of adolescents in the past, so like I'm like ready for the teen years. I'm a little bit more scared for the early years, but my wife's better for the early years. So I'm like, okay, we're tag team that.

SPEAKER_01

You're perfect partners for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But I constantly am trying to remind myself, being with my clients, and this is something that I've thought about with having kids is what's in their best interest. Like you talked about the empowerment versus what am I doing out of my own discomfort? What am I trying to fix because I'm uncomfortable with it or I feel guilty about it? Or, you know, because like being an intuitive and an empath, like I just feel other people's feelings so much. And that's going to be like one of the hardest parts of being a parent for me because I will struggle to like feel my child's pain and like not be able to always fix it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that is hard. I there were two things that surprised me because I thought, you know, you think you know, I really thought that I knew I knew my fullest capacity of love before I had children. And then my first was born, and I remember thinking two things like, oh my God, I didn't know I could love a little human this much. But then the flip side of that was I also didn't know, I thought I loved my husband to the max already. And I clearly didn't because once he came, it was like witnessing him become a parent and us figuring that out together. You know, we're divorced now, but we co-parented all the way through. We just that we both were like the kids are our utmost priority. We will co-parent. This isn't gonna be them saying, well, we can play them against each other because they hate each other. Like that is not we we didn't, and we didn't show up that way. And so I'm really grateful that it landed in that way, but I really thought I knew capacity of love, and I was not even close. I just I was not even close. It was like this fascinating, oh my gosh. Um, I already lost the second thing. There were two big things, it'll come back in the conversation, but I just was so surprised at oh, that was the other thing is the empath thing. I didn't know I was an empath at the time, and like you think you hurt when you have hurt, and then your kid has hurt, and there's nothing you can do about it other than hold space if they are, if you're the if you're the spaceholder they choose. Um I was always pretty good about like my message to my kids was I just want you to have someone to talk to. It doesn't have to be me, it doesn't have to be your dad, but I need to know if you ever feel like you have no one to talk to. I wasn't attached to it being us. I understand fully that sometimes it's not the parent, they're not the best helper. They're too close, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, yeah, that's what like I um what I've been working on also over the years is cultivate this really great community of people so that um yeah, my kids can hopefully go to some other adult that I trust if they feel like they can't go to me or my wife for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, I I grew up in a neighborhood where there was like four families on the street and kind of kids of similar ages or like kids that were our babysitters. Um, and I called the other parents my other mom and dad, like my other mom and my other dad. And I had a friend once say, Doesn't your mom get offended when you when you do that? And I was like, I never even considered that possibility. So I went and talked to my mom about it. I was like, Are you offended when I say my other mom? She's like, No, I'm so grateful you have more than just me. She said, I'm so grateful you have resources and people close by that you can count on and that you feel trust you can trust. And and I was just like, Oh, that's pew, you know, I was all ready to feel guilty about it. I'd never even considered that being a thing, which means my mom wasn't showing up in that way, you know. But I didn't know that at the time. But it's amazing how much um just parenting, how much ego we put into it, and we don't even realize we're doing it, our ego, our fear, our stuff. So I just I don't know. I feel like you have so much wisdom within you with all the work that you've done that you you have that intentional pause and you'll be able to. I'm not saying it'll never happen. It 100% will, like we're human, you know? But just for you and your wife together to come to that place of all right, we got this, but we don't know what it's looking like right now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's almost like this is like my Mount Everest of like all these things that I've been working on, you know, like one example being like boundaries, right? Like setting limits, like I've been working on that for a while, or not trying to fix other people's pain, or just these different things that I've been working on, I feel more prepared, but I know that like being a parent is just gonna challenge me on another level with some of these things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, I don't know, it's such a beautiful journey, but it's like the most I'm just gonna reflect on that a minute. Is it the most challenging? I mean, outside of maybe the relationship with yourself, I would say it it might be the most challenging, but also rewarding. And I don't say that from an ego place, I just say that from like a, I don't know, like I feel like both my boys have, you know, like they've had their roller coaster of of life, but currently, right now, like they're both in really good places. And like as a mom, there's there's like a piece within me that isn't there when my boys are unsettled. Like I can't put the worry hat down when they're unsettled. I can't, I it's like a but it's a different kind of worry. Like I used to worry myself to death in a in a loop that didn't take anywhere. And this was more just like mindful intention of how might I show up to hold space? Do they want me to lean in, or do I just step back and you know, like open the door and wait for them to come to me if they need me, kind of a thing, you know, but not needing them to need me. That's a totally different thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I think this next chapter of my life will be so transformative. I mean, so many other things also in my life have been, but um, just these parts of myself that might come out that like are new or that I can reconnect with. Like I'm thinking of like the playfulness part in me that does come out already around kids, and I feel like that will just be amplified. And that's something that I've struggled to connect with because I had to grow up fast in a number of ways and kind of be really responsible. And so I love that I can maybe lean into that playful part of myself with kids.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. That's so good. I do feel like our inner child gets healed just by simply engaging with children, whether it be your own or someone else's. I think they show us. I kept a little notebook. I wish I would have started it earlier, but I had a little notebook and my kids still love this book. I don't know where it is right now. I wonder if I gave it to one of them or if it's in there's one drawer it might be in. But I kept, I wrote down quotes that they said when they were little that were either profound or super funny or like whatever. And they'll just go back, but you know, just the simplest of things they have curious and awe and wonder about. And it's just like, you know, I just, I mean, just a simple one. Um, he was like, Mom, what are these fuzzy things on my eyes? And I'm like, Do you mean your eyebrows? Because I couldn't see him. And he was playing with his eyelashes, but I we were driving. So I was, you know, he was in the back in his car seat and I was driving. And what are these fuzzy things on my eyes or by my eyes? And I was like, Do you mean your eyebrows? No, no, these fuzzy things. And I was like, They're your eyelashes. And he's like, What are they for? They're so soft, you know? And he's got these long, beautiful eyelashes. I'm like, oh, you've the best eyelashes. Uh I was like, Well, A, they're pretty and they make they enhance your eyes, right? But B, they help keep stuff out of your eyes, and they can tell you when your eyes aren't feeling the best because they can get all crusty. Like, there's lots of purposes for them. But like I had never considered what eyelashes were for. That just sort of dropped in, you know. I'm like, I don't know, what are they for?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, kids have this great way of like helping us have what we call like beginner's mind and mindfulness. Um, things that we've just taken for granted and we just kind of look over. I think kids do a great job of helping us slow down and see the world again through that, that those kind of child eyes. And I think it can add another whole layer of joy and and curiosity for us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I didn't, I never even, I mean, I did not wonder was not a word I used on the regular until. And I taught preschool. You know what I mean? But the word wonder, it was like I it was my kids that brought that that word back into my, you know, vocabulary that I just hadn't even pondered in a while. And it's like there was a lot of curiosity and fun on the playground teaching preschool or even just in the classroom. Like I loved that. That was super fun and helpful. I don't know. There's just something about like when you're living with a tiny human 24-7 and they find their words and then they have questions, and then you're just like, oh, I don't know. Let me, let me, let me think about how I think of that or what I might know about that, or to be able to say, I don't know to your child.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the the intimacy that comes from watching one child grow throughout their whole life versus other children. Like in my life, I've seen moments of them or right visited with them, but not seeing like the day-to-day kind of growing of that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. It's just I it's funny because um, you know, my partner now he doesn't have kids, but he has nieces and nephews and um friends that you know that are like family and are like nieces and nephews, and he's also really observant human. And so we have a lot of conversations and he's very inquisitive about the parenting journey and the why, like why, why, why, or whatever. And I'm just like, yeah, it's it's just I get what you're saying. Like, because he'll talk about like the ego or the pay impatience or that kind of stuff, or like, well, you've been breeding this with your partner this whole time, and then you're surprised when the child shows up in that way, you know. Um, like child always goes to you because you're always the one that rushes in and fixes it. So of course they're gonna out, you know, like those kind of things. And um, I'm like, it's just different when it's day in and day out, and I don't really know like you don't get to give them back, like they're your responsibility 24-7-365. There's no, there's no, oh, I mean, you get pauses and breaks if you have support around you for sure, you know. But there's just something different about I don't know, there's a weight of that that's just different. And it's not even necessarily a heavy weight sometimes, but it's just it's always there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I'm gonna struggle with like being a therapist and knowing a like a whole lot of what can happen to kids or how parents can impact their kids. I Do so much parent-child work or inner child healing work. Um, and so like I know all the things that could, you know, go quote unquote wrong. Yeah. And so, like, to not get tripped up in my own way of like, okay, I could respond this way, and this is the impact, or I could respond this way. Like, I don't want to get paralyzed in that, and that is like one of my fears versus like I just want to be, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's what I was just gonna ask you is how is your relationship to fear? Like, because that matters, right? Because if you can just recognize that, like, well, I can project all this fear out there, or I can acknowledge that I have it, I'm always going to have it, but I still get to show up in my paws, my internal wisdom and my wise observer and that like my highest self versus you know, your fears are gonna get in the way sometimes. They just are like there's gonna be some hard like truths that are just your like this is a deal breaker for me, we're not doing it this way. And then there's gonna be others where you're just gonna be like, Yeah, I can get to my wise observer. I can come to neutral first and then acknowledge, like, thank you, fear. I see you, I hear you, and this is a different human. This is a brand new human. Don't know all the bits and pieces yet, but I will discover and uncover on the journey as we together learn how to be parent, child, and what that relationship works, looks, how it works, what it looks like. Can I also be their friend at some point? Right? Like, that's a fine line in a slippery slope. It's like too much friend, not enough parent. Oh, that's a problem. Too much parent, not enough friend. I use that term loosely because I just think it's a completely different relationship. Am I friends with my kids? Yes, but I probably would still just say, I'm a mom and we get along. You know, we have a really great relationship. We can tell each other anything, and I'm super grateful that that's where we're at. But I'm still the mom will always get in the way of the friend on some level. I that might sound weird or crass, but it's it's I'm not saying I mean it's it's better than friendship.

SPEAKER_00

You know? Well, because we can have a number of friends, but we have a limited amount of parents, you know, and so I I think that people want their parent to be a parent in a lot of ways. Um, yes, they want to feel close and have a good connection, but it's still okay to be the parent at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Gosh, you just draw I like the word expectations came in, and that's like a a mouthful, a mindful, a heartful, just in like the expectations of a kid and what it means to feel loved by a parent. And it's like, and what a parent thinks it means to give love to a child, and the needs of the child and how they feel loved versus how a parent knows how to love is like like my journey within that from like my parents and self and then my two ex-husbands and their parents and myself, right? And then my relationship with my kids. Like it's it's um those expectations and unawareness of what those needs are can be really um like it wouldn't have to be as hard if we just had some awareness around that, but we don't usually think about it really. We're just like, well, I'm showing you, how can you not see it? Well, have you ever considered to ask me how I receive it or what my hopes or dreams might be or how that might feel to me? You know, we don't we don't necessarily do that. I don't think we're taught to do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm curious to see how my relationship with my parents change more like internally within me. Um, as I become a parent and raise a child. Uh as I gain more perspective of kind of like what that's like to be a parent. I don't know how it will change, but I imagine it will in some way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I love even just the curiosity in that question, right? Like that's such a cool because everything's evolving, you know, and then to have a new awareness of oh, I get that part now. Or I don't understand that part at all, right? It's gonna be it can go both ways.

SPEAKER_00

I've heard that from friends as well. They're like, I understand this, like how hard it was for them, and I have empathy. And then there's times we're like, I feel like doing that was pretty easy, and I don't know why my parent couldn't do that. So there's there's that too.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think to have an awareness of how you show up in the world and kind of what your what your wounds, slash triggers, slash, you know, like whatever words you want to use, but kind of where your your tender bits are to have awareness around that at all is so helpful. Like, I mean, I I did get to a point in my healing where I like sat my kids down. I was like, I am so sorry. Like I was angry, I was a yeller. I wasn't like a violent or yell shitty words or anything. It was just like I I raised my voice a lot and I felt terrible about it. I I would say, I mean, I don't know. I guess I didn't ask them this. I just apologize for, you know, I don't know if I used harsh, like harsh to them words. I think I just used like, you're not listening, get your ass over here, you know, or get your butt over here. Probably not ass when they were little, but and too loudly, you know? Yeah. Um, and I just remember, I think, well, this was in a heated discussion with my oldest, and he was a grown adult at the time. And and I was like, look, I am not the best mom in the world. I did the best I could with what I knew, and I know a heck of a lot more now, and that makes me feel bad about what I did then. And he was like, Well, you're the best mom I've ever had. And I was like, Well, I'm the only one who's like, Well, technically not. I mean, I was like, Well, that's fair. You do have stepmoms as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but that it was just, it was it was hard to be vulnerable with my kids in that way and just be like, Man, I I screwed up, I definitely made some mistakes. And um, and then it was interesting. This kind of sounds so weird. I don't know why we're going here, but like my second divorce, my the boy's dad came over to help move some stuff. Like, we're all friends. Um, and I was able to apologize to him for the first time for like just how I showed up, and and he was just like, you know, you don't owe me an apology. I'm like, no, I 100% do. Like I didn't know who I was. I had found out about hidden trauma that I didn't understand, and I didn't like I was I was just not okay and I didn't know how to be happy. And he was like, I tried so hard to make you happy. And I'm like, and I did see it. I just no one could have made me happy at that at that time in my life. And I just I feel real bad about it now, but I also know we're all right where we need to be and where we're meant to be, and all of those things. But it's like the journeys, whether it be any relationship, like they're challenging. They're gonna, they're gonna test. I don't love that word, but like it will be challenging at times. And to give yourself some grace and to give your partner some grace and to check in with each other. I would say with newborn, like one of the best things you could do is check in with each other on your capacity and really take turns on when you can plug in because infants are there's no roadmap. You don't know when they're gonna not be feeling well, you don't know how long they're gonna sleep, you don't know how often they're gonna need to be fed. Like there's just so many moving parts, and these are how we like nurture ourselves. And so if you're not like teamworking together on that, that's it's like such a it's so much harder than it has to be.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, my wife and I have this like, I don't know when it started, the saying of we just like we a team, like we just like say that. And it, you know, sometimes when we say it, it it's it's like a thank you. Like we see the other person doing something for the relationship, or um, when maybe we didn't get around to like say, maybe it was my turn, I should have been doing the dishes and I had a busy day and I didn't get to it, and she decided to do it, even though she, you know, wasn't her job that day. And I'll kind of name that, or she'll name that to kind of acknowledge of like, you know, someone stepped up for the other person. And sometimes we'll also try to come back to that framework when we start to come at each other when we're both really stressed, and we're like, okay, this is not helpful for us to be taking it out on each other. Like we're a team here, like we're both just stressed, and so you know, trying to hopefully come back to that framework when we have a little one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's one of the best things you can do to be because well, and I think having that awareness of what you might need, right? Like, I don't know. I mean, I just there was a chunk of time when they were little, were you know, I mean, I was nursing and I was like, I just I literally just want eight hours of sleep in a row. Like, if I pump, can you just like sleep now, like charge up, but then can I just get eight hours of sleep in a row? That would be great because I'm not human at this moment, and I just need eight hours of sleep in a row. Um, and it's such a silly thing to wish for, but it was just like that was my reality in that time of life. I just needed sleep.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, we have to take care of ourselves if we're gonna be able to take care of someone else. Something else that came up when you were talking about kind of the apologies was like how important I think that is as a parent. I think there's this idea of like when we're kids, we look at our parents, we think of them almost as like superhuman. We don't see the humanness of them, like that they had whole lives before they became parents, that they have, you know, their own traumas and they make mistakes and they're not perfect. I think as a kid, especially as a smaller kid, you just don't see your parent in that way. And I think that's really then adds a whole nother layer to parents of like having a hard time saying, like, I messed up because you're looking at me, kid, like that I have all the answers and I don't have the answers. Um, but I think that's so powerful when parents apologize and take ownership to their kids. One, it's great modeling of like you mess up, you make mistakes, you hurt someone, you apologize. But I think it's also so powerful to say, like, I'm I'm also human and you get to call me on my mistakes and I will own them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think that was one of the most beautiful things. Um, like I just, you know, if I said something mean, I would own it. But if my kids said something mean, I would remind them, hey, I know I'm your mom, and I know you think I'm a different kind of human, but I'm human too, and I have feelings just like you do. And what you just said really hurt my feelings. And that's okay, but also that's not okay. Like, I like I love you. And can we talk about this? Because I just like I always wanted my kids to understand that I was human too. Uh, because I think so many times, I don't know. I think maybe it's not so many times, maybe it's just in my world, but I think a lot of parents, you know. I mean, I taught preschool for a long time, and my own journey and fret friends having kids at the same time. It's like parents do have this, like, we're supposed to be superior. There's supposed to be a hierarchy, and I just I don't believe that's true. I mean, I believe like I would tell my kids, look, I understand you want to do what you're doing right now, but I'm your parent, and it's my job to keep you safe in this world, and what you're doing isn't safe, and here's why. So you can choose to do that, but if this, then that. I did a lot of is if this then that and gave them choices. Like that was always my thing, was just like you it you get to be the author of your life. Like you are, I don't care if they're two or 22. Like if this then that, though. From my life experience, this is what I would say about that. So you can choose it, but it's gonna be harder tomorrow, or it's gonna be, you know, a lot was always uh often sleep stuff, you know. Like you can choose to stay up late, but if you're grumpy tomorrow, I can promise you I'm not gonna be in the same room as you, like because you made that choice. So you gotta figure out that rough day on your own. Because I'm also not having enough sleep because of whatever we're doing. Yeah, yeah. But I think just to be as accurate as possible is so helpful. And most parents try and kind of keep that hierarchy for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, there's like you're saying, there's a responsibility to keep kids safe. So in some ways, the parent does, it's a different power dynamic. The parent does hold more power, and you know, it doesn't mean that the parent gets to do whatever they want in terms of treating the kids, you know. Like when I work with a lot of clients working on healing their relationships with their parents, you know, I I talk to them of like, it doesn't matter that that's your parent. If they're doing harmful things, they're doing harmful things. They don't get a pass because they're your parent, but also like you don't get to just treat them like a certain way just because they're your parent. Like I think having that um boundary early on of like, yes, we love each other, but that doesn't mean that we get to treat each other however we want and say all these hurtful things and then not apologize or like make amends. I think if we don't do that, then I think we can set you people up for like later on having like maybe romantic relationships where someone treats them uh like not well because they're like, well, there's exceptions to this, like treat everyone with respect rule.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Well, and I think I think it so often boils down to a lack of communication. There's no clarity. And you know, a number of times I was like, Hey, you look like you're feeling mad. Do you feel do you want to talk about it? You know, which sounds so calm and whatever, but I mean that was often the case in preschool too. If a kid's throwing a tucker tantrum, it's like, hey, like you're super upset. You want like can you most of the time they can't tell you what they need if they're like depending on where they are in the scale, but to just say, you know, you want to talk about it? Should we go do something like just even sometimes just a small distraction to get to that pause so they can get into their parasympathetic again so that they aren't reactive, you know? But I think to one of the best things we can do for kids in general, or even just other humans, is to help them go inward and ask themselves what they need versus me assuming what they need. When I assumed it never worked, and my boys were so different as far as what they need. Like the one always wanted me in the in the room with him and like near him, but he wasn't a cuddler. And my other one could play for hours by himself, but he needed to cuddle. And so it was just like this weird, I was like, I was conditioned one way as a parent with the one, and then the second one came along. I'm like, wait, you're okay in a room by yourself? Like I don't have to be seen in every moment. But you want like touch, you need to cuddle, you need to be rocked to go to sleep. You can't just put you in your crib, that's not gonna work for you. So it's just like this, you know, and then you get all the experts, quote unquote experts telling you, oh, don't spoil them. You'll you'll be stuck like that forever. It's like so many things I listened to that I wish I wouldn't have, and I wish I would have known about my intuition and just like, you know, because I was not afraid to ask for help or ask for like some wisdom of somebody who supposedly knew better. But then, like, I mean, even some of the stuff that the doctors told me, I was like, Well, I think I probably could have held him for longer and it would have been okay. Like, he didn't have to suffer falling asleep, and I didn't have to suffer, you know, listening to him cry. I don't know. I just, it's so fast, or like the nook, you know, like the the pacifier, like when to, how to. I decided a long time ago on that. I was like, I was never I, you know, the people who like cut the pacifier and say it's broken and they throw it away. I was like, I want it to be his choice. It's just like, look, this is yours. You can have it if you want, but at some point, like you're not gonna want to go to school with this thing, or if you do, that's fine. But like your choice. Is it time to get rid of it? Nope, not yet. Okay, here you go. And I think just it was like night after night, you know, are you do you want it tonight or do you not want it tonight? And just giving him that choice, at some point he was just like, Yeah, I don't think I want it tonight. And it was like his decision. I'm not saying it's always that easy. That's like a potty training thing, too. It's right, it's not always that easy. But I had taught preschool for long enough. I was like, Well, I'm just gonna start my kids because so many times part of the reason kids don't potty train is because the toilet feels weird. They don't like the feel of it, it feels scary. So every time I put him in the tub from infancy onward, I just sat them on the toilet. And if they went, I did a big happy dance. And if they didn't, no big deal, put them in the tub. But every single time they went into that tub, I held them over the toilet so that it didn't feel like a big scary thing. And they both potty trained super easily. Was that a fluke? I don't know, but I learned watching over and over and over again and hearing parents talk over and over and over again about like the problems and the issues. I was like, huh. Consistency, taking away the fear, and then celebrating when it's a win. That's kind of it. And again, making it their choice. I don't want a power struggle. I'm not gonna bribe them to use a toil. I don't know. To be fair, my boys would probably laugh at that and be like, Mom, you gave us a prune every time we went. Like, yeah, but it wasn't like you had to go to get it. They were always in like they frozen prunes and frozen apricots. I was like, I'm not giving them chocolate or candy. That just seems like such a horrible idea. Um, but for whatever reason, the fruit was fine. And like they were there for you all the time. You could have had one anytime you wanted. It just happened to be something that you saw as a special thing. I don't know what you want me to say.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was like agency is so important. Think about how little control kids have. Yeah. Um, so I understand when kids get upset, they can't do what they want to do. And there are some times where you're like, you just I'm saying no. Yeah, this is like that would be so so frustrating of like to not have a lot of control.

SPEAKER_01

I don't have choice. Yeah. It's such an amazing journey, though. I just think um I can't wait to have a conversation. And you can tell me when you want to have another one. It might be two months, it might be three months, it might be six months, it might be like I don't know how long it'll be, but I'm so curious to hear like your before and after of just how it's going and just checking in too, just as a human, human to human, like parent to parent. You know, how's it going? How can I support you? Like my door is open if I can support you in any way, shape, or form on the journey. I think I don't know, they say it takes a village, it just takes kindness, compassion, and humanity, and a willingness to ask for help and a willingness to offer help.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I appreciate that. And that's I mean, asking and accepting help has been something that I've been working on um for some time. Like because I was like, once we get here, once I'm become a parent, like I'm going to need that. I'm gonna need to be able to accept help. Um, it's still hard, but it's I mean, this is gonna challenge me in that realm, you know, whether I like it or not. So I'm just I usually just try to lean into those things and be like, sure, this is gonna be difficult, but like this will help me grow. So like bring it on.

SPEAKER_01

And there is a line, no matter what we're talking about, right? Like, there's always a line of I'll use the word pain, but I don't love that. There's just like a threshold of capacity where if you get beyond that line, it's easy to receive help because you kind of have no other choice. You're just like, I am so tired. I would do anything right now for a nap. I keep using tired as if that's the only thing, but it's just a simple example. It's kind of inevitable when you have a newborn, there's gonna be some. Well, that's to be fair. With my first, you can nap when they nap. But when that second comes along, mine are three years apart, then I couldn't nap when he napped. And so I was still doing all the things with the newborn, but then I had a three-year-old that was not allowing naps. So that was an interesting journey. That was different. Um, yeah, and you can't always nap, right? Like I was fortunate in that I stayed at home uh when the kids were babies, you know, when they were little. Um, so I could nap when they napped if I needed to, which was a lot more sanity. I'm not a very nice human when I don't sleep.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I think a lot of people struggle in a lot of different ways when they don't sleep.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think it's so so good, such a fascinating journey. I'm trying to think if there's any um it was fun because when I when I I left teaching preschool when I got wait, like when I was almost ready to have my first, and they gave me a book of like advice, and it was one advice from the parents, but also advice from the kids. Super funny. I don't really remember all of it, but I just I'm trying to think if there was anything really profound. Um yeah, I was gonna ask if you had any words of wisdom for me. I mean, I think the pause is just huge, just remembering that just to check in with yourself and truly, like if you say asking for help is is hard for you, like shift shift that as quickly as you can, if you can. Like, I get it. I'm not an ask for help person either. Uh, it was just not that long ago. I asked for help for something, and then uh a close person to me kind of judged me for it. And I go, look, I have a hard time asking for help. You don't get to judge me for this. I am doing this, and you're just gonna have to deal with it because it involved them too, you know? And I was just like, I'm not you like that's just a hard no for me right now. You I'm at rock bottom at this moment, and I'm asking for help because I need it and I don't care what you think about it. So just keep it to yourself.

SPEAKER_00

It's like no, my thing that I've been noticing is like like again, I just have a great support system and they'll just offer things sometimes without asking. And I have noticed, like, oh, I'm still carrying this like unworthiness wound because when someone does something nice, my my thought is like, okay, so I should probably do something, or what did I do to deserve this? Don't do I need to like do something for them back, or like that. I just really struggle. It showed up a lot with um our first baby shower that we had, where I was like, so everyone's just gonna buy us gifts and give these things, like just because they love us. And like I was just like feeling kind of overwhelmed with that. And I was like, okay, so I have still some work to do with that.

SPEAKER_01

So that's interesting that you connect it with self-worth. I think I used to, but I think I've also discovered and uncovered that for me, asking for help, some of the reasons it's so hard for me, is because I won't say all. It wasn't uncommon in my world that when you received help or a gift, it came with a string attached. And so when I get help, I feel like I'm indebted. And then there's this weight over me that I have to then go back and balance the scales of karma to and so it actually depletes me. It doesn't actually support. I've I I'm better now. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a hundred percent always good, but I'm much, much better at recognizing like when I truly when there's reciprocity in the help versus uh a demand or a requirement or Some sort of expectation that's going to just be held over my head for the next however many years until it's, you know, resolved.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, I I struggle with that too. And I have a lot of friends, um, a number of them who are therapists or healers. And so, you know, those are always fun people to be friends with. They'll say, Right, Sam, you offer a lot without just having to do stuff, just like your presence, or I just enjoy having a friendship with you, like you don't need to do things. And so I try to keep coming back to that in those moments where I'm like, okay, now you've done a couple nice things for me. Now I should probably do something in return.

SPEAKER_01

That is such a slippery slope and such a fine line. And this does equate this in this like matters for parenting as well. But I just think sometimes that reciprocity can feel a lot like keeping score, and that's an exhausting way to live. It's like, what if we just trust each other to show up and love each other through whatever it is and not keep a scorecard and understand that you do have to look for reciprocity, but like if there's no reciprocity there, eventually it'll feel like a drain or a vampire, like an energy vampire. So you'll know sooner than later anyway. It's like it's building that trust with yourself to understand that, like, oh, I do have good people in mind. And I'm not poo-pooing the people in my life, but it's like I used to show up in a way that was tucked into boxes so I could feel worthy and lovable. And I didn't feel lovable if I wasn't giving in some way, which just was such bullshit. It was enabling and so toxic on so many levels for me, for them potentially, right? Like it was just, I'm not saying I'm a toxic human. I'm just saying some of the ways I showed up was not really a healthy pattern and that it didn't serve. Um, but there's so much in that with the parenting too. It's like, am I in fear right now? Am I in, you know, that what where is this challenge coming from? And how do I want to model this for my kid? But that's also a lot of pressure. It's like just be yourself, just do your thing, trust yourself, trust your intuition, trust your partner, be a team, all those things. It's so helpful. I just had a thing pop into my head, this is so random. Um, I don't remember who told me. They told me too late, so I couldn't do it. And I feel like I love it, but I'm not sure I love it. So I'm just gonna say it out loud and you can chew on it. They said when the when baby is born, either open an email account and then send them emails, like versus a baby book, right? Because then they have a and then when they turn 16 or 18 or whatever, you give them the email and their password, and then they get to read all and you can give it to loved ones as well. And so then they have all these messages of like their life. Maybe they'll never read them. It could just be an overwhelming digital footprint that doesn't ever matter. But I just thought it was such a you know, maybe it could be a notebook or a journal or whatever. I don't know. I just find like baby books. I was great at my first one. My second one is like, sorry, Andrew, I just was busy. I don't have time to keep that up, but it to send an email isn't is a lot easier, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I love that idea. Both me and my wife are are writers. Oh like we have a notebook that um we'll write to each other back and forth. Maybe if like one of us is going out of town, or maybe there's something that's on our mind that's like harder to say verbally, or we just want to like show some love. Like we don't write in it super regularly, but every once in a while, one of us will take the notebook, write something, and give it to the other person. So I feel like that feels in alignment with kind of how we show up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And it doesn't, you know, like you wouldn't have to send an email every day. Do you know what I mean? But just when your heart is like overflowing, which will happen on the regular, um, and you just find those words that they just pour out of you, and then I don't know. I think that would be an amazing thing to receive as a I don't know, even like as a 12-year-old. Do you know what I mean? When you start having like that life where you just go, gosh, or you start questioning if anybody in the world loves you, you know, to have those emails to look back on them. Oh my god, the love is palpable. You can feel the energy of the words on the in the in the it does digital too. It doesn't have to be written in a journal, but it could be. But I just remember thinking, oh, I wish I would have known about that before my kids were old, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a good idea. We did write, like each of us separately wrote a letter to to her, to our daughter, like before, either even before she was conceived or right after she was conceived. I think even before she was conceived, like a little bit manifestation, but also like kind of recognizing she's this soul that has probably already chosen to come into our family, and she's kind of like finding the right time to do that, and so kind of already speaking to her, like you know, she's already out there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And to journal your own journey as well can be helpful, but I don't everybody's different, not everybody needs that, but I don't know. I just I wasn't like I said, I wasn't doing this work when I became a parent. I mean, I was in child psychology and definitely enjoyed how the mind worked and you just, you know, like had a I mean, I taught like I taught Sunday school for a while. You know what I mean? I just I loved kids and I love teaching. I still love kids and I still love teaching. Uh, but I was not self-aware. I was not uh, I wasn't even close to touching my wounds and didn't understand I had triggers. Like I just didn't, I didn't know any of it. Um, and you know what? My kids are good. I didn't fuck them up. I mean, sure, we all do on some level, right? But I just think we we put so much pressure on ourselves as parents to be perfect. I'll just say it that way. And good fucking luck. You're never going to be. But if you can be human and let your kids see that and give yourself some grace and let your kids see that and be honest with them when you're depleted and just let them like I'm having an angry day and I don't know why. I feel like I'm just gonna go take a bath, or I'm just gonna like I just mommy needs some time, you know, just whatever. And I was just I tried to be as upfront as I could be. And look, some days I didn't get to be angry, some days they needed me more than I needed my processing, and that's okay. I mean, that's my job.

SPEAKER_00

So um yeah, and I don't think it's ever too late to apologize to your kids to go back and you know to them years later and say, I've been thinking about you know how your childhood was or how I showed up as a parent, and I'm sorry for these things, or even more vulnerable um to ask your kids like, is there anything that you're upset with me around? I mean, that's difficult, even thinking about like doing that eventually for my kids of like basically asking them for feedback of like how I'm showing up as a parent. It's like you could be unhappy with some things, and I might have to sit in like the guilt or even shame um and regulate through that to then show up for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But that is, I mean, there is so much wisdom in that, and it's such a beautiful thing. And it is, I don't know that I was terrified. I definitely felt vulnerable, but I truly wanted to know. I really, I deeply wanted to apologize. I mean, it was a heartfelt apology, but I also I just didn't want it to be a one-way, like, sorry, peace out. You know, I I wanted it to be a conversation. Um and yeah, it was vulnerable, but it was also like one of the I mean, there's some of the most beautiful conversations I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00

You know, yeah, relationships can be so much stronger when you have those hard conversations, vulnerable conversations in any type of relationship, of like taking accountability or asking for feedback or just like working through stuff of the relationship. I think it if if you're able to do it in a great way, like it does make the relationship stronger and makes people feel closer. There's more intimacy there because you're not avoiding all the stuff that's in the room all the time in the relationship. You're like, let's actually talk about it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I just reflecting back to when they were babies. It was just such a I don't know, it's such a great time. And I mean, every part of the stage of the life so far has had its special moments and it's all been a great time, and it's all been a horrific time, right? Like that's all of the above. It's all the moving parts. But I just think about like some of the simplest things. Like, this is gonna sound so that's gonna sound so dumb. But like I just learned, like with I it may have been both of them, I don't remember. But like if I gave them one kind of diaper, they pooped up their back every time, but then I tried a different kind of diaper and it never happened. And so I was like, oh, this diaper doesn't fit their body right. But you don't think it's about the diaper, you just think, oh my god, my kid is just constant, like what the heck? I'm doing so much laundry. And if I wouldn't have thought to like, well, maybe I should just try a different brand, or same thing with like diaper rash. It was like there was one kind that worked, the other kinds just made it worse. But if I wouldn't have had the like wherewithal to explore and to talk to other, I mean, I had good resources because I taught preschool, right? So I had a lot of people I could ask. I had a lot of friends that were like experts. Um, and so I just wouldn't even have necessarily considered that they were all that different. It can be the most subtle, simplest, smallest shift that can make everything easier, but you got to be willing to try something new. But like that is such a silly example, but that is like the healing journey. It's like sometimes you just need a different brand of diapers or diaper random, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Like, yeah, some yeah, sometimes it's no one's fault. It's just a simple change and like makes a world of difference.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's so funny. Yeah, and if you don't think to ask or consider that there might be a different passability, well, you just be there. And that it would have worked, like, oh well, just more laundry, you know, as long as he wasn't getting diaper rash all the time.

SPEAKER_00

But kind of that's something that's helpful to have. Like, I have a number of friends who have kids, and so they've already given me advice. I've had people help me put together my baby registry because I was like, what are even some of these products? Like, what do they do? Like, this baby needs so many things. Like, oh my gosh. And so being able to ask them questions has been helpful. And it's also been funny, they've been like almost like they've been excited, you know, to have another baby in their lives for me to go through this journey, but they're also kind of excited for me to like understand the parenting part. They're like, you'll you'll know, you'll eventually know what it means to be so tired. You eventually know what it means to be blah, blah, blah. And so I think they're excited to, I think it'll grow my friendships with those people as well. Yeah. You know, because I'll understand a part of them that um has shown up through parenting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. A couple more things that were just super helpful. And this probably not infancy. Well, maybe infancy. I guess if baby like spits up a lot or does have diaper accidents. One of the best advice, I think it was Sharon. Shout out to Sharon. Um, we taught preschool together. I think she told me both of these tips. One, when they have an accident in the middle of the night, like to change a bed at 2 a.m. is like harder than you think because you're half asleep. So, you know how they have the like the plastic sheets that protect the bed? Make it twice. Get a set of like a plastic sheet and then a regular sheet and then a plastic sheet and then a regular sheet. And then when they have an accident in the middle of the night, you just gotta take it off. You don't have to like remake it, and then they're in bed quicker so they go to sleep faster. It's like it's the simplest little thing, but it is like the best advice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like those parent hex. I did have a friend tell me that, and I was like, that is so smart. Like, I just would never have thought of that on my own. But like people have been through it, they're like, I have wisdom to share. And it's like, you know, wisdom.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then the other thing is when they start teething, she either kept like a just a very slightly damp washcloth in the freezer that they could then chew on, or like the best snack when they're teething is frozen peas. Just put them on their thing, they'll thaw fast enough, and then it just gives them that cold and that comfort. It's like the simplest, silliest little thing that you never would think about, but they're not gonna choke on a pee because it's gonna, you know, I mean, I don't give it to them rock hard. I wait till it causes smidgey, but like that was like the best, they loved it. They would just house them and like peas, schmees, whatever. They didn't care about them unless they were teething, and then it was like the best thing you could have given them. So funny. I don't know. It's such a brilliant journey, and it's one that um I get what you're saying. I I used to um, I'm gonna say require exponential amounts of control in my world to feel some kind of way about it, like safe and good and whatever. And if there's one thing that can help you loosen the reins a bit, it's children.

SPEAKER_00

I know I've had more than one friend being like, this is gonna be good for you. Yeah, like, yes, I've worked a lot on the control stuff. I've been able to surrender way more, and I've been like really proud of myself and impressed of like stuff that I've been able to let go. But like this will definitely take me a whole nother step further. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I mean this from the bottom of my heart, truly. Like, sometimes people are too close, you know what I mean? And like you and I are like fostering a friendship, but we don't know each other that well, I'm gonna say yet. Sometimes you just need somebody who doesn't know all the things about you to help you. My phone is on silent at night. If if I'm awake, I'll hear it. Text, call, email, whatever feels right for you. I know it probably won't ever feel right for you because asking for help is a hard thing. But from one person who has a hard time asking for help to another, look, I don't have all the answers. I don't even necessarily have the right answers, but I do have some experience. And uh my heart is like just all about the kids and and you and just helping all of that. And I know what it's like to be a parent. I was fortunate in that I had a lot of support and help, and sometimes I had help I didn't ask for and didn't want. So I'm not the person that's gonna like step through the door and like ask all the time, but I would just want you to know my door is open and and and lean into all the doors that are open as they feel right to you, because it's really good to have support on the journey and to and for your child to see you getting help, asking for help, all of that. Yeah, I really appreciate it. It means a lot. Yeah. Anything else you want to talk about or that would be helpful?

SPEAKER_00

No, I think this is this is where I'm like trying to lean into surrender part of like I know some things and I will just uh have to figure out the rest, you know, and it'll just unfold and however it unfolds.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think the best surprises uh come from parenthood. I don't know, like just the silliest little things. Like after Jake was nine, he was a nine-pound baby. Um, and I didn't know he had dimples until like a nurse pointed it out the hospital. She's like, he has dimples. I'm like, wait, what? Like he hadn't smiled or spirked in the right way for me to see him yet. I was like, oh my god, he has dimples. That's adorable. Like a silliest little surprise, but that like literally made my whole day. And then also gave me that ping of mom guilt. Like, how could I not know I've been in the hospital for two days and I didn't see a dimple? Uh so give yourself some grace, you know, because all those things that you think you were supposed to notice, like just you were present in the moment and you weren't fishing for all the details. It's a good thing, not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I'm so excited to see like who my kids become, like personality-wise, like yeah, and just seeing the transition between kind of moving from really connected to the spiritual soul realm into more the human realm. Like now that I like am way more aware of that, I'm so fascinated to like watch that and see if I can notice things that maybe I wouldn't have before.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that is amazing. I can't wait to hear about that journey if you're willing to share it, because that was not something I had. I was very much uh I just wasn't I wasn't here yet. Yeah, so cool. Well, I'm ridiculously excited for you. Thank you for talking about this on the the opening of season four. I there was just something about it, the fact that it's gonna land on Mother's Day, and um I don't know what's gonna shift between now and then, maybe nothing, but I think it's always a good conversation to have to just for the parents out there, you're not alone. And on those most challenging days, you're still not alone. And sometimes you need to be alone, and you just feel like you can't ever be alone again. Like none of those things are true. Uh, but you might have to get clever and creative in how you um navigate your needs as you also navigate this other one or several humans in your world as you are navigating parenthood.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I hope this helps parents out there, but also like maybe um helps parent maybe reminisce a little bit of some of the early years or kind of think through that that journey for themselves. And I also love that this will be like something that I can listen back to of like some of the things that I was thinking and feeling. There will probably be some things of like, oh, that was that was cool that I said that, and other things of like, man, I really didn't know what I was getting to.

SPEAKER_01

That's any new journey in life, but there is something magical about the and exponential about about parenthood. All right, that feels like a good place to wrap up. I'm looking forward to um you reach out to me when whenever it feels like the right time to to do the follow-up on this one. I I wish you the best, and my door is open, and I can't. I hope I get to see pictures at some point.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was gonna say you'll hear from me sooner than when I'm ready to do the episode. Because I'll I'll send you updates, I'll send you pictures.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, awesome. I'm really excited for you and your wife. I think it's an amazing, beautiful thing, and you seem really happy about it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I've been wanting this for a while. Also, being a cancer, a triple cancer, like I think nurturing is just kind of in my in my bones.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you're a triple cancer. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

I did not know that about you, but that makes so much sense. Yeah, cancer through and through.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Just all the water.

SPEAKER_00

All the feels, all the information, and yeah, all the things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's amazing. Thanks, Sam.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thank you.