Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #66 Response to Chad's New "Yearbook" Podcast, Reality TV Insights, Resilience, and Navigating Friendship Growth with Summer House: Martha's Vineyard Star, Jasmine Ellis Cooper
This episode weaves a tapestry of raw emotions, personal revelations, and inspiring tales that have sprung from the response to Chad's new "Yearbook" podcast (out now on all podcast platforms) as well as revelations and reflections on friendship, parenting, marriage, and stardom from Summer House: Martha's Vineyard star, Jasmine Ellis Cooper.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
This is Nothing but Anarchy, the show that explores and subverts sports, entertainment, media, hollywood, a bunch of other stuff. Whatever you think is interesting, we do it here. Welcome to Nothing but Anarchy. I'm standing because I'm super turnt up. I have like addict energy lately and the reason is because of a lot of things. The reason is because my life is the way that I want it to be. Right now my life is. I'll explain. I'll explain.
Speaker 1:So last night, probably around 12.30 am, I get a voice memo from Dax Shepherd of the Armchair Expert podcast network. Dax Shepherd of the Armchair Expert podcast, husband of Kristen Bell, actor, comedian, the guy who I partnered with on my new show, yearbook. Many of y'all are here because you listened to Yearbook. Many of y'all showed up last week because you listened to Yearbook. Last week we got more downloads in a week of this show than we got in our first two months doing this show and that tells me that something is happening. But this is what Dax said to me. He sends me a voice memo. It was only 30 seconds long. So, morgan, don't be mad at me for listening to a voice memo. He says in so many words he says two things. I'm going to paraphrase it down to two things. He says the show is a hit, and he is not one to fuck around, he's not one to bullshit. I don't think he would say the show was a hit if it wasn't a hit. But he says the show, look at this response. He says to your show, as he puts it, congratulations. Look at how people are responding to your show. And then he says and beyond that, beyond just the numbers, beyond just the response, is most shared on Spotify. It's going crazy, it's bubbling. People are posting about it, people are sharing it, people are downloading it, people are listening to it two, three times. So in one episode of the show out two technically there's an interview and then the show. One episode.
Speaker 1:But then he says have you seen the comments on the show? And I have seen the comments. I've been watching the comments ferociously, vociferously. I've been watching the comments steadfastly. I've been reading every. I don't do this usually, but I've been reading every comment.
Speaker 1:I've been reading every DM, because it's the kind of stuff people are saying in these comments and in these DMs about the show. They're saying when I was 15, my brother killed himself and I haven't been able to process it, I haven't been able to talk to anybody else about it. I haven't been able to explain to people how I feel, the complex map of emotions that I feel about what happened to my brother and to me when I lost him, until now, listening to this show, I have a DM from someone who I went to high school with, who says, who I knew in high school, who says you guys didn't know this, but every day when y'all went to basketball practice and pom poms and angies across the street and then y'all went home to hang out with your families, I was trying to hide from going home because I was being domestically assaulted at home and I haven't been able to talk to anybody about that. I haven't even been able to talk to myself about that until now. I saw somebody who wrote a comment that she had been trying to get back into her writing for a decade but her life had taken over everything. Her duty as a wife and a mom and a worker and whatever else had taken over and she hasn't been able to do the thing that she loves the most in her whole life, which is right, because all she gets to fucking write are thank you notes for people who invite them to their weddings. She's like I'm crying because I finally feel like I can get back to my writing now, because of what you guys made, because of what I've listened to here and I've probably got a hundred messages like that in my DMs. There's got to be at least a hundred comments like that on the photo that we posted announcing the show.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to be honest with y'all. Yesterday, two days ago, I told an advisor, I told a friend, a mentor, whatever we want to call him. I said when people send me these messages, when I read these things, it doesn't really get in, it doesn't really seep in. I guess I'm wired to just kind of keep it moving. Great, awesome. I can use this as a testimony on our page. This is marketing. I ask people, can I screenshot your text? Can I put it on my Instagram so that other people see the show is good and keep it moving? But I was like man, it doesn't really seep in. And then yesterday I was walking Penny, my dog, in our neighborhood and I just I'm not going to lie to y'all Like out of nowhere I was listening to music.
Speaker 1:Specifically, I was listening to a cover of the song Creep, which I'll put on my Instagram later An excellent cover, an amazing cover and I found myself crying. And I think I was crying because even in the process of making this project, in the process of thinking about it, going back to my hometown, interviewing 30 people who were a part of this experience where we lost Alicia, lost an innocent child in front of our high school, I hadn't processed it in 20 years, I hadn't let it in, I hadn't really gone through the feelings I hadn't. I'm going through shit right now, as all these people are who are sharing and commenting. I'm going through like real life shit and I've been holding it at bay because I don't know why, because, but seeing y'all respond to it brought something out of me that I didn't expect. And so now I was like driving in the car on the way here, I was listening to Hans Zimmer, because I'm listening to a lot of music without words in it lately, because I need to think, I need to process, I need to like tell somebody yesterday I had to just go on a walk to just like think about everything that's happening right now because it's crazy. I don't I don't know how much anybody else can see that it's crazy without checking in frequently on what's happening on my Instagram but like it's crazy right now and the influx of people reaching out people I haven't talked to since I was. I got a. I got a text last night from a dude. I went to fifth grade with it's crazy right now. And on the way here I was like I don't most of y'all can't see me. If you're not watching YouTube live, you're listening to this on the podcast. I'm standing up because I just feel a lot from this and I want to make sure y'all can feel what I feel, because I've been waking up early every day, early as shit. Like six o'clock. I'm like a nine am to 10 am wake up person generally in my life and a lot of that is because I, just until lately, I just didn't have the life that I actually wanted. Like I just didn't get to go to work and do what I really fucking wanted to do.
Speaker 1:I remember sitting at a deli that's gone now, a 24 hour deli in Fort Greene. I was sitting there with Spike Lee when I was like 29 or 28. And it was the morning before he was about to go shoot Black Clansman. And every day for Black Clansman they had five am, six am seven am call times for him at least he's the director. He got to be there and he was telling me that we're sitting there at brunch or brunch. Fucking was in there at five, 30 am breakfast, which is when he likes to get breakfast and I was like yo, he's 60. At that point he's 60.
Speaker 1:I'm like yo, you got to be exhausted. Like you got to be so tired, waking up this early to be on set, being there while it's still dark outside, leaving when it's dark outside again, getting all the way they were shooting upstate going, getting all the way back to the city, probably getting a bed between 10 and 11. And then you got to be back on set at five, six, seven am the next morning. I said you got to be exhausted. He looked at me like I had a fucking hole in my head. He was like I'm energized, I make that schedule, like I decide when I go to work, and that's the thing that's been, that's the thing that's been like on me really for the last few days, but honestly, for the last couple months is like I feel like I finally have a shot at the life that I actually want.
Speaker 1:And y'all are responding to something that we put out last week and telling me like this actually means something to us. It doesn't feel the same if you guys don't give a fuck. I'm not about to stand here and shit on anybody else's project. I'm not about to shit on any projects that I've worked on, but I know it feels different when it doesn't mean anything to anybody. It doesn't hit the same, doesn't matter if you get a bigger check, it doesn't matter if you get more texts or whatever. It doesn't matter if it gets more likes. It don't hit the same if you don't get a four paragraph text from somebody saying I've been in AA for 20 years and y'all didn't even know it. But now I feel like I can share that with you. So the thing that I really wanted to say is and then we're going to cut because we have a very special guest in here today who I will fully introduce when we cut to the next segment.
Speaker 1:But the thing I wanted to say is, very recently and for most of my life, I wasn't feeling like this. I was feeling uninspired. I was feeling like, damn, maybe I'm never going to get to do that shit I want to do. Maybe I'm never going to get to make that project and put it out. Maybe I'm never going to get to be a writer, maybe I'm never going to get to do this shit. And I could feel that the lights weren't on behind my eyes. I could just feel it. I could just feel like I was halfway dead, and I see that often around me in people who I care about. Right now I feel that. I see it. I see the energies low. I see the curtains are low. I see it. I feel it Because you think, if you're in my age bracket a lot of us feel this way it's too late.
Speaker 1:You already made too many decisions that chose a path for you, and now you are going to spend the rest of your life writing thank you notes instead of writing that shit. You want to write and I'm like I promise y'all. I have felt that too recently, and now I feel completely different. So I felt like I need to just stand here and be like it's not over. You're not half dead, you're alive. You can do that shit you want to do, you know. So that's it.
Speaker 1:Your book is out. You can find it everywhere. You get Podcasts. There's some new people here. There's something new that I am processing, which is. There's a lot of new white people here and I've been thinking about knowing that and seeing how vocal you all have been in my DMs, asking some pretty funny questions, some of which we'll talk about. I've just been thinking about what does that mean for the show, like that there's new audience here, that there are people here who probably recognize one voice that I have and now they're going to come here and hear a different voice that I have. I don't have answers on that quite yet. I just know I got to kind of do it how it feels good. But the main thing I wanted to just say is I feel fucking turned up. I want the energy to rise in here when we do this show. The bar is now lifted.
Speaker 1:Morgan, I was looking at the photos that they sent, which were phenomenal. We got to make our shit look as good as their shit. We got to make like they're up there, like they're up there, and now we want to be up there. So we got to meet that. So we got to match that same energy and we're going to.
Speaker 1:But anyway, thanks y'all for listening to your book. Thank you all for sharing, downloading, liking, listening twice, blake High School Alumni. We're all going to be at the game Friday at two o'clock at Blake. Please keep passing the message. I noticed that you all are sharing the shit out of that reel that I put up yesterday. Please continue to do so so we can get people out there to honor Alicia, watch the team celebrate yearbook and that's it. I don't know how to wrap this up because I'm standing now, but in a second. This is a transition. We are going to talk to Jasmine Ellis Cooper. I'm looking at your bio right here at Jasmine, which I will read shortly. Morgan, what should we do here? We're going to cut some music and then, when we come back, you're going to see us moving around.
Speaker 2:We're going to have a full production moment as we move into our conversation with Jasmine.
Speaker 1:But while it's yes as that, yes, as we are changing the setup, we're going to start talking to Jasmine, because we don't want to waste any time with five minutes of setup while we do the thing. But okay, here we go, ready break. Welcome to nothing but Anarchy. We are here with our guest, jasmine Ellis Cooper. Okay, I'm about to read your bio, jasmine, but then we're really going to get to know who you are, so that's never awkward.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Jasmine, Jasmine Ellis Cooper, born in St Louis and raised in Atlanta, Jasmine Ellis Cooper is a budding screenwriter, speaker and star of Bravo's summer house Martha's Vineyard. Jasmine's storytelling finds the joy and humor in the history of the black experience. Her experience with homelessness has led her to support multiple causes and advocate turning the hopeless into the hopeful. So, Jasmine, before hi, first of all, hi, I've just I've been sitting here with you for 30 minutes, but hi, I'm going to quickly tell the audience how we met.
Speaker 1:So let me get real comfortable get comfortable, the as comfortable as you want to be, and guys, all right. So I told you all this on another episode, but if you're new here, I watched all of summer house, summer house, martha's Vineyard. Before I met you I was walking through Fort Green Park with a couple friends in the summer.
Speaker 2:It was Juneteenth.
Speaker 1:Juneteenth, which was and there was hella black people in Fort Green Park and we're walking through and I saw Alex from the show, who I know from Spikes World basically and dope, super friendly, very, very easy, energy kind of guy Like, and I saw him and he, you know he comes over with DAP and he introduced me to you and to your husband as well, who was there and I don't I guess we got connected on the internet thereafter, yep. And then the next time I saw you was at our live show where you, where you showed up by yourself, which I thought was so fire Like you came to our live show. You're by yourself, you also have a very. You have like a very I don't soft is probably the wrong word, but it might be the right word Like you have a very soft energy, you have a warm light.
Speaker 1:You do you feel inviting, you feel like you can just say what's up. So let me start with this. I'm just going to jump right in. Before we started talking, before we cut the cameras on, you were like chat. If y'all want to ask questions, drop them in the chat. But you were like I already know what they're going to ask. What do you think they're going to ask?
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll tell a really funny and adult. So we already finished filming season two and we're there one day getting groceries just because we need food, because we eat while we're filming and these aunties love to death. They had great energy. First thing they said to me was oh my God, we love you. Are you still married?
Speaker 1:Okay, All right, look, because I was so perplexed. Were you perplexed.
Speaker 2:A part of me wants to be like girl. No, I left him and see what they say. But then I was like you know, let me not be smart. I respect my elders, I love my elders and my favorite people. I say, yeah, we just celebrated one year, Just one year in, so pray for us. How about that?
Speaker 1:So, on the respectfully, I thought so I was going, I am, let's just do it now, cause it's for you. You just put laid it out here on the table. So I was going to ask you questions. Just I was going to try to find my way there without like doing anything harmful. You know what I mean Like without being like super invasive. But literally, on the way here I was like peeking at your bio, my sister's g chatting me, it's like oh yeah, she's married to the guy who was in see in the army.
Speaker 2:Yes, he's in the army.
Speaker 1:So I was like I should tread super lightly, like he might have weapons type of shit. You know what I mean. Like I'm kidding, but he probably doesn't.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing that people don't realize Silas is a person that is was born into a civil war and came here in like a lot of immigrants, has a deep respect for just America taking them in, so he always knew he wanted to serve. He didn't know he'd be joining during the pandemic, but he did so. He isn't like tried and true deep into it, but he's deployed right now and we would have never guessed that when he joined in 2021. Right, so he's still very new in it.
Speaker 1:He's deployed right now. Okay, and where's? Yeah, he's in Europe. Okay, and I don't want to do a whole like. I'm here to get to know you, so I don't want to do a whole interview about your marriage or your husband. I am curious, though, when those elders said that to you what did that? What do you? What did that mean to you?
Speaker 2:I think the person I've been closest to in my life is my grandpa, who's like no longer with us, and I don't know. I couldn't help but wonder what he would think about them asking that at the time, because I have so much. I've been blessed with a lot of phenomenal men in my life and I think from that I was just like okay, they're watching storytelling and I can't fault them for the story they received, so I'll give them grace. But it did hurt, I'm not gonna lie, it did hurt because I know him.
Speaker 1:So when you say that does, that is the hurt, because you feel like that is them having a misunderstanding of who he is a misunderstanding of who you are a misunderstanding relationship.
Speaker 2:I can't even say misunderstanding, I don't think that's being truthful, a representation of who he is, because he's the bravest person I know, and so it is hard to hear that sometimes, because I'm just like this man will literally give you 18 shirts if you need it right now. And so I think it's the other side, that a person that you love, no matter who it is, even if it's like you're sibling, you're like no, but this is the totality of them, but you keep focusing on this part. But then again, I had to, over time, understand this is the medium that I'm in and it's okay that they think these things. As long as I know who I'm with and I feel like the queen that I deserve to be every day, that's all that matters.
Speaker 1:It's, it was a hard lesson, respectfully. I got to imagine you are probably actively learning that lesson still, because you just you told me you got shot. Another season, you don't know when it comes out. Nope, it's like you're gonna be living your life, living your life and then, bam, all of a sudden, like season two is out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you, how do you stay emotionally and mentally prepared for boom? Another moment happens and now people see me again.
Speaker 2:I don't think you can. I think, look, this whole opportunity really fell in my lap. I would have never, I never aspired to be in reality at all Like the origins of how the show came to be about was Jordan was being vetted for Winter House and that didn't pan out. But to my knowledge, they saw that she went to Martha's venue with some friends and was like, oh, black people are Martha's finger, but that's what's that about. And she sent them to me.
Speaker 2:I thought I was being a historian, but I'm all I love a little history bag. So I thought I was educating them about the place that they were considering filming. Next thing, I know they're considering me, my husband, my best friend, my homeboy, my other friend, my other other friend and it Alex, like it just spread. So to be in this position the first season was hard, but I'm the kind of person that I keep wondering why am I here? You were talking earlier about this feels like my calling and in a weird twisted way, this is my opportunity to get closer to my calling, because not everyone gets a chance to see themselves on TV. And this second season I was very adamant and Silas was very much supportive and, like you better use your voice, you better do all the things that we've learned over this past year. That's been a hard lesson to learn in public, and so that's why I am excited about season two, because I felt myself and saw myself do that, and so I can't ask for anything else.
Speaker 1:And so what is your calling? You just pointed to it. What is it?
Speaker 2:Service and storytelling.
Speaker 1:Okay, when, and just I want to understand how your life has changed over the last few years. I mean, one thing you told me at the launch party was like you told me you were pregnant and you weren't showing. You just told you just I mean like, oh, cause I often would drink, probably. And you were like, oh, like, and you just kind of whispered it to me. You were like I'm not talking about it yet, and then it's just, it's funny, I was very excited that day.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm a pregnant you were glowing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were glowing. You were very. I know you were just very. I really respect a person who is so comfortable to walk into a place where they don't know anybody, just solo, dolo, have a good time and then leave when you're ready, like I respect that. But what I want to ask is I want to learn about how your life has changed over the last few years. Cause season I watched season one last summer, but when did season one come out?
Speaker 2:When did we film or when did it come out? When? Did it come out. It came out May 7th of this year, May 7th 2023.
Speaker 1:So let's say May 6th, if you can remember, or May 5th or January 1st or whatever. How many followers did you have on Instagram at that point?
Speaker 2:as an example, I think like 1,050. And then that's crazy.
Speaker 1:And then the show comes, cause I just looked, you got like almost 60,000 followers Like the show comes out and is it just like boom all at once, like all these people rushing to see what your life is like.
Speaker 2:It was gradual, but if you go to black Twitter, it was quick. Black Twitter is ahead of everything. I think that's where I saw the most rapid change was just being able to Google myself, which is still crazy to this day. And all these articles from like India and like all these other people and these think pieces like this is who they are. And I'm just like, wow, this is.
Speaker 1:There's no way to prepare for it at all, and did you recognize yourself as a public figure that moment, or did it take time? You still don't Cause. When you told me you were pregnant. The next time I saw an image of you it was on People Magazine, like with your belly you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's just crazy which is crazy.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. So you get all these people rushing black Twitter's going off. Black Twitter has so many things to say about your Black Summer House Black.
Speaker 2:Summer House. It's not Summer House, not this one, it's Black Summer House.
Speaker 1:And how do you process it? Like, does it get into your real? Like? These people are in your bedroom, they're watching you and I've seen you and your husband in your bedroom arguing about ironing as an example. You know what I'm saying. What is like, does that affect your actual bedroom in real life?
Speaker 2:In the beginning it did Because, to be completely honest, the first time we saw ourselves like that it was like okay, all right, I mean we did do that, so okay. When it kept happening, it felt like I'm really not trying to be hyperbolic it felt like we were chatteled in some way. Chatteled, yeah, what does that mean? Well, if anyone has ever watched Bravo, even on a lot of other shows, you don't see people in that capacity, I'm for sure, definitely don't care about many people having sex, but when it kept happening it felt very invasive and very like. I couldn't help but wonder why is this interesting?
Speaker 1:Like. So you felt like the producers were being exploitative. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:I mean, who also is doing something in the house? Nobody. So I get it, that's all you have. But that was unexpected. We know cameras are rolling all the time, 24-7, because we filmed two weeks straight, but a lot of things don't make the cut, and to see yourself in that way is I just remember thinking, not even by myself, about him as a black man on TV? What is interesting about that? I can't. He's an Alpha, right, he's Alpha. Yeah, oh, are you?
Speaker 1:I am, yeah, I didn't even know that I'm an Alpha from Warhouse. He's an Alpha from Howard right, georgetown, georgetown.
Speaker 2:He played at the DC chapter. But yeah. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're coming back.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I.
Speaker 1:You're like him as a black man. He's being seen in a way that you felt uncomfortable with.
Speaker 2:I felt uncomfortable for him 100% Because, let's be clear, he's in finance, in the military. Do you think he thought he'd be on reality TV? No, he's being supported by his wife.
Speaker 1:Really so he don't wanna be there.
Speaker 2:No, but I think because if you think about putting a group together I know reality has an issue with this, especially nowadays you don't wanna pick random people, you wanna pick people that know each other and because he and I are a real couple with real friends, you wanna put that together organically. So of course he had to be a piece of that puzzle and I think he thought cool, we care about this place. Black man needs to be represented. I just didn't think his butt cheeks, was gonna be on there all the time. He didn't think that way, yeah.
Speaker 1:I got questions about everything, but let me start here. Let's talk about it. So, like they do I mean, they are in your bedroom. They, like y'all are getting it on, Other people are getting it on.
Speaker 2:That's how we got here, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean like, yeah, come on. I mean so, which is that's part of the TV experience? It's part of you know. My question is like I've been to Martha's Vineyard a bunch of times.
Speaker 2:I know I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I grew up going to Martha's Vineyard with my family. I have been detached a little bit from Martha's Vineyard lately in life, cause I'm trying to get my bearings on how I relate to the black bourgeoisie in general.
Speaker 2:Which I find so fascinating in general, but yeah, so well, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:Like, morgan sent me an article or a quote by a resident of Martha's Vineyard who was like so miffed that you all were shooting this show here and it's a poor representation of Martha's Vineyard, is gonna lower the property value and blah, blah, blah. Like what's the ender? What are the interminglings between you all as a cast and the people who are just there for the on the vineyard?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'm a person that love I can only speak for myself. I'm not the whole cast and I don't represent everybody and I'm glad I don't have to but I'm a person that has been there before, that cares about it and that hopes to have a house there one day, meaning I care about every single person that has ever had history with Martha's Vineyard, especially the Wampanoag tribe, cause I have a lot of friends that are Wampanoag.
Speaker 1:What is that? Can you tell us what that is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, they were the original inhabitants.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of their ancestral land, like they were there before the slaves were there.
Speaker 1:Damn.
Speaker 2:So to have descendants to this day that are there, that means something to me, wow. So for the people that feel like it's invasive I agree it is invasive. I agree it is gonna change the demographics. That's something Silas and I talked about extensively like who the hell are we to stand on shoulders of people that would probably not like this today? That was something we really wrestled with personally, because we had been there and it felt like are we gonna regret this later? And now I don't feel that way. I really don't, because of course, we deserve to just be ourselves and live life and be petty and are you over dogs? Of course we exert, just exist, and this place is. It highlights something like we're talking about the black bourgeoisie or, as I call it, the Jack and Jill folk.
Speaker 1:I'm one of them.
Speaker 2:That I'm so fascinated by.
Speaker 1:Was that?
Speaker 2:Charlotte.
Speaker 1:Sorry, yeah, sorry, I didn't know this, but this is good, we're getting to know each other. I mean, I just want a book where I'm like really going, it's spicy. I mean, I'm an insider on these communities and like, as an example, it's ridiculous for anybody who is a part of such communities to feel judgment about you all portraying Martha's Vineyard.
Speaker 2:Well, I was gonna ask how do you?
Speaker 1:feel about it. Like people are people, like those are petty communities, those are. They do all the same shit y'all are doing on the show. Like that's how people behave, like that's humanity. So I think it's. I'm yelling, I think it's hypocritical and I think it's gross and it's what upsets me about the community that I'm a part of is like we are not. It is not a self-aware community, it is not a humble community. It's a community of like. You know that thing.
Speaker 2:Now people might look at me and think I'm an insider, but I consider myself an outsider respectfully, Cause I just wasn't my upbringing, but I have deep respect for just how invisible that community is a lot of times. But yeah, no, I can talk about the Black Booze Rossie all day. I'm even writing a show right now about the Black Booze Rossie in St Louis, specifically in the 1940s Cause one. I feel like St Louis is where I'm from for God and Major City and secondly, it's just such a dynamic that I don't see honored enough in terms of how that privilege operates amongst people who aren't privileged of the same demographic in terms of being Black.
Speaker 1:So so bring I mean bring us into. I wanna really feel like I know y'all's experience in the environment off camera. So like I imagine you guys go out to you know the Black Dog Tavern or like whatever bar you know I don't know what the places are called anymore at Martha's Vineyard. But like I imagine y'all might go outside Vincies, vincies, all of this yeah, exactly vincies. You go out in the streets, you might go dancing one night somewhere and you're bumping into, like other people maybe who you guys know from your real lives and stuff.
Speaker 2:Now last season that didn't happen, because we filmed when it was like cold.
Speaker 1:It was off season, okay.
Speaker 2:Because if anyone who's been to Martha's Vineyard, if you don't know, it's the one thing you need to know you gotta book like a year in advance, because it's not easy to get a place.
Speaker 1:And it's a ghost town. In the winter, it's a ghost town.
Speaker 2:And so we kind of went when it was a ghost town. So a lot of the things we did had to be in the house or around the house.
Speaker 1:This time we was outside.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh, during peak time, and it was a lot of love and I didn't really know what to expect filming this time around, but it was a lot of love, a lot of recognition, a lot of I got to Angela Davis. I almost fainted. I was just like Alex actually got a photo with her and I was very jealous Because I was like down the street and I missed it, but I was like this is.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:This is crazy and cool in some way. I don't know how to feel about it, but we were very much received. I don't know if because the weather wasn't a lot nicer when we went or just they knew. But not everybody appreciated that we were back.
Speaker 1:Right. And I know I mean like, if I know bougie niggas and I do like I bet a lot of them were a lot of people of our age range, I imagine New York were there, saw you were there, wanted to probably be close, like be nearby, like be around Some.
Speaker 2:And then some of those same people had all the smoke when it was announced, and I clock all of you.
Speaker 1:Really Tell me more about your clockage.
Speaker 2:I just I understand how it's like oh, who are they To our exact point? Who are they to do this? You don't represent us. We haven't seen you.
Speaker 1:You didn't grow up on the phone.
Speaker 2:Respectfully, you did see me every 4th of July on that beach okay, South Beach. I was there. You didn't know me, but I've been there and I can recognize that. Probably, again, it's multi-generational how some elders probably feel like some of us are acceptable and some of us are a bad representation Because none of us are the same on the show. We're just not. I think my favorite thing is the men. Respectfully, none of them are the same.
Speaker 1:No, they're quite different. I was gonna get to doing a little bit of like I wanna tell you what I see when I look at them on the TV, but let's come back to that. I wanna ask one more question, which is do the people on the island that are not in the cast, did any of them find their way into the house, into bedrooms?
Speaker 2:Absolutely absolutely, I think last season for our finale, because no one was there. We were very welcoming that. We were having like a feel the space last episode, hurrah. So we invited people that we met at grocery stores or whatever, because we did wanna spend time with people that lived there. We weren't trying to be exclusive at all and some of them came, which I thought was really really dope. This time around we had to be more mindful of it because at this point it's kinda blown up so much you just don't know if people wanna come in and expose the cracks or if they wanna come in and be like show love. So we had to be a little bit more discerning this time around in terms of who we invite back to the house.
Speaker 1:And when you see people being spicy on the internet with your name right, when you see people talking their shit and you say you clock like, is that to say like sometimes you actually clock who the actual person is Sometimes and you're like, and then that means it just means when you see them and you know how to play it like, you know what kind of energy to not give them.
Speaker 2:I'm not a person to hold a grudge. Just because you talk spicy on the internet does not mean that you're not gonna be excited and say I love you in person and take a picture with me, cause it happens all the time and I had to learn that. Like, that's how you feel on the internet and maybe you do feel that way, but when you see us it's love and that's what I'm gonna choose to walk away with.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, let's talk about the cast.
Speaker 2:Let's.
Speaker 1:So I'm looking at photos of them all here.
Speaker 2:Again, this is you would think by now I'd be used to this.
Speaker 1:To this yeah Well, what do you? What is this?
Speaker 2:Oh, no, just seeing like us in this format oh, I mean Like our photos from the photo shoot we did to promote this like it's still wild to me a little bit.
Speaker 1:Y'all look great. I mean, you look great. Skin is popping. Everybody looks properly edited and like gorgeous.
Speaker 2:It's giving a ray Like a.
Speaker 1:What? Well, let me start here. Do you like these people? I do, All of them.
Speaker 2:I like all of them. I have a spectrum of respect for different people, though.
Speaker 1:That is an excellent answer. Can you go as far as you can like instead of making me pull it out of you? Can you just whatever? That means no speak as honestly as I can Please, but in the day I'm like an unbothered.
Speaker 2:Capricorn, that's classy. So I just, you know, I have my own personal limits, but I feel like I went into this a little bit naively in terms of which is weird, because I watched Potomac, I've watched, I've watched Brava.
Speaker 1:You know what it is.
Speaker 2:I know what it is, but I didn't consider myself in that space and I feel like some people, some of my castmates, some of my friends, were just a little bit more ready, a little bit more ready to spar 100% ready to spar, ready to like take it in, claim their space and, honestly, because I'm like I'm so logical sometimes I hate it.
Speaker 2:You should. I want you to get the most out of this because your success on this show is my success, like I want us all to look back on this and be like we did that shit and we made the most out of it together. But sometimes the little nuances and comments and how people move, I have to respectfully clock it and create a gap because we don't operate the same.
Speaker 1:Would you like to put a name on that? I got to do it. I mean, I got to do. I got to do what I do.
Speaker 2:I will say how do I want to approach this Lord?
Speaker 1:Just know that probably, whatever you say right here, I'm going to tell Morgan to clip it.
Speaker 2:No, that's fine. I'm just thinking, I'm going through, because so much has happened in the off season in between filming last season and this season, so I'm really trying to think of which time space I'm going to speak from.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'll say this Okay. It's a little clickish in our group and it gets a little delusional in my opinion, and I feel like the friends that I came into this with. They formed their own friends and what benefits them and that's fine, but don't expect me to participate, whether it's people that have been in our wedding or people that have come to birthday parties and all the major milestones, or people who've just been in our house.
Speaker 1:It's still something I'm adjusting to. It's still something I'm adjusting to. If I do it like a Ouija board, if I put my finger over their face, can you just?
Speaker 2:I'm not going to make you yank it out of me. I'm disappointed in Preston. I am.
Speaker 1:Preston. All right, hold on. I'm consulting the board. Preston Mitchum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a little disappointed why.
Speaker 1:What did he do? I really truly do not. I watched the show, but I'm not here.
Speaker 2:I know I'm not here To me. I my life has changed very rapidly, even in the past two years. It looks very different than what it did when the pandemic started and I feel, like a lot of people, that we were intentionally showing that we valued them and their friendship. It didn't translate, it doesn't mean much, and that's okay, because when you see an opportunity, seize it, but don't expect me and mine to act like we don't see that.
Speaker 1:Got you that feels. It feels like the industry.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's why I said it's okay, because it's not unique to him or anybody else on the cast. We're all going to handle it and navigate it to the best of our abilities.
Speaker 1:To me. I hate it. I don't think it's okay, I hate it too. I'm like don't turn off your personhood. When you walk on a set, Don't not say excuse me to somebody when you bump into them because you're at work. To me, you're still a human being.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing, what makes it, and I am a person that's empathetic and I do truly try to put in the effort to put myself in someone's shoes, inadvertently or not. We're not just friends anymore, we're all coworkers, and that's what I wasn't planning for. So a part of me is like I can't fault you because this is a job opportunity, this is whatever you make it. And then another part of me is like but keep that same energy with everybody else, don't lean into the spiciness.
Speaker 1:It's such a long arc on these relationships too. Y'all are going to see each other again in five years and then in 10 years. You're not going to forget that somebody was fake. You're not going to forget that somebody was duplicitous. All right, quickly, with the cast I want to do. I'm going to go to each person. I'm going to ask you one question about each person. I'm going to try to make it a one-word answer, if I can. Okay, one-word answer Got you. I'm going to ask Arrington If Nick were an animal, what would he be? Okay?
Speaker 2:I'm only saying this because he kind of reminds me of Arthur Ashe and Arthur at the same time sometimes. So if he was an animal I'd say, what was Arthur and Ardvark? Yeah, ardvark, okay.
Speaker 1:Excellent answer Silas, your husband. If Silas could only brush his teeth in the morning or at night, which would he choose?
Speaker 2:Good morning.
Speaker 1:All right, these are hilarious. I'm making them up as I go Jordan Immanuel.
Speaker 2:Look at him trying to remember what happened.
Speaker 1:I see it. No, I remember her clearly. You know, what I remember most distinctly from y'all is one that's your friend, that's your real friend. And also you guys had some static around marriage and stuff like that, like conversations about relationships. So okay, here's my question Jordan is your girl. You know her in real life. That's not like your work friend. That's your friend, Correct? What percentage of Jordan as you know her did you see at work?
Speaker 2:I want to say I saw 85, 90%.
Speaker 1:Cool, that's high.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great 100%.
Speaker 1:Brea Fleming. What does bunny sister mean?
Speaker 2:We were Playboy bunnies. At the Playboy Club we were cocktail waitresses.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's how you'll know each other. Yeah, okay, I have seen Jordan's photos. Brea Fleming, I have, so have y'all.
Speaker 2:It's a funny little. I have seen the photos. I have seen the photos. I've seen the evidence.
Speaker 1:Brea Fleming. Okay, what do you think is Brea's most honest dream?
Speaker 2:I think we've gotten a lot closer. Actually, I think Brea's honest dream is to be a star in a positive way.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Positive and very impactful and memorable. All those three things.
Speaker 1:Okay, shanice Henderson, would you let Shanice pick an outfit for you?
Speaker 2:Why not? Yeah, I wish.
Speaker 1:Excellent Amir Lancaster.
Speaker 2:These questions are hilarious, by the way. Top of the dome, like he's really pondering this right now.
Speaker 1:Amir Amir, I just made this game up. Amir Lancaster, what do I want to know about this dude? I went on his Instagram because, dig deep, what do you want to know about him? What do I want? He reminds me of a friend of mine.
Speaker 2:He.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to be real. He felt the most like the person in the cast who would not actually hang out with this cast in real life.
Speaker 2:I'd say that's fair.
Speaker 1:Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say that's fair.
Speaker 1:And why do you think that is? If you had to pinpoint it.
Speaker 2:Because he hasn't.
Speaker 1:Oh, before he doesn't know, y'all Okay, because he hasn't before. Makes sense, all right. How do you pronounce this guy's last name, likey?
Speaker 2:Jason Like.
Speaker 1:Jason, like I'm running out of questions here, jason. Like If you needed to, if someone had to carry you out of somewhere because you were unconscious, do you think Jason would be someone you would trust to do that?
Speaker 2:1000%. He probably has oh not that All right. He probably has.
Speaker 1:I think you've said enough about Preston. I'm going to leave Preston alone Summer Marie Thomas, she's single.
Speaker 2:She is.
Speaker 1:Okay, moving on.
Speaker 2:She's single. I actually met Summer at Sundance at the macro party in 2020.
Speaker 1:That's how we met 2020? It must have been right before COVID.
Speaker 2:Yep Word. It's like the day that we all found out that COVID passed.
Speaker 1:Damn, that's crazy, that's why it's so memorable.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's how I met her.
Speaker 1:That's a good party. I've been to that party. Alex Tyree, what do you think Alex is going to be doing 10 years from now?
Speaker 2:I feel like Alex is going to be wearing like Uncle Al tracksuits and heading up a really impactful organization that just helps a lot of people, but nobody knows where he lives.
Speaker 1:That sounds like a lovely life. All right, phil Brooks and Marie Torres.
Speaker 2:I guess I'm just Mariah yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, mariah, I'm just going to ask this Do you think that they deserved to? It says they were both kicked out. Do you think that they deserved to be kicked out of the house?
Speaker 2:Looking back on it, phil knew because he was hilarious, and I'll say this about both of them and I think it's both truth for both. They were different than everybody else in the group and I feel like I know my background. Might seem like I'm I've pledged this and I've gone to this school, but it's not. But Phil and Mariah were very not that anybody else isn't authentic, but they are from places that needed to be represented too.
Speaker 2:And so to me, that's what pissed me off the most, and I understand that environment. It's hard to know, especially we're on a production set, how much control you really have and how much control you really don't, and none of us really understood that fine line. So I hate that they left, because they represent people too.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is just a weird anecdote, which is that when I was 12, I was on a. I was on a children's reality show called adventure camp on the discovery kids channel yes, it was one of, it was the first of its time and one of the other kids got kicked off because he and I got in a fight.
Speaker 2:Was it like bug juice? Remember bug juice?
Speaker 1:I didn't see bug juice, but it sounds like it.
Speaker 2:It came on a snap and it was same same premise. Same premise Kids at camp.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we like swam with dolphins and all kinds of cool shit. I'm gonna look this up. Yeah, it's out there somewhere. It's on there's YouTube clips. So, um, I saw in your bio that you lived. Wait, first of all, I totally flew over something. What did you pledge and where did you go to school?
Speaker 2:I did not pledge.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought I just heard you say because of what I pledged and where I went to school.
Speaker 2:No, but I said people assume this of me.
Speaker 1:I got, you Got you.
Speaker 2:They predicted all this, that I pledged something and that I went to a certain school and that I come from a certain like no, yes, got you.
Speaker 1:So what was the era of sleeping in the car, just because it was on the thing? So I really want to know.
Speaker 2:So Mariah and I met in college. I went to Point Park University on an acting scholarship and then I went later to Georgia State double major in chemistry long story. So when I moved to New York, I literally hopped on a China bus. Actually, this is my eight year anniversary this week. Congrats, thanks.
Speaker 2:I don't know how I'm still here, but I convinced her to move to New York because I saw this lot of opportunity, honestly, and I knew that Pittsburgh is a place that cares about football and still mills and I knew she wanted more and the place that I was living. I'm going to be honest, I got real behind on rent, very behind on rent, had to go and around the same time she started sub-leasing from a place that wasn't like legit and so, with her driving up, we were like, well, we got to put our stuff in your car and figure it out, and that lasted for months during the summer. And it's so funny because my cousin was asking me why do you still take the train? Like, cousin, you can Uber you a star now. I like the train.
Speaker 2:I've slept in the train before, like I have no problem with the train, Like that's not going to change.
Speaker 1:So let me in a little bit. Like my friend Quincy, when he was, he was like trying to become a football coach and he used to basically live between his car and the locker room at UCLA A lot of people have showers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and don't talk about it.
Speaker 1:They don't. So, like what? Tell me more about your lifestyle. Like where did you all? Like did the car park in the same place every?
Speaker 2:night, okay Shower. The big thing every day was where are we going to park, to where?
Speaker 2:the car doesn't get towed or tickets because we can't afford tickets. We always showered at Planet Fitness and we always ate. I think for me my meal every day was like the spicy nacho, the Doritos and the honey bun, because together there's like a dollar. And then Raymond Noodle's was her thing and she'd find somewhere to warm it up. But I did Brandon Bassett work at the time and she was like an aide in people's homes and, yeah, I think the biggest question every day. I remember we would literally roll up the windows and try to figure out we can't have AC on all night because it's hot, because then we won't have gas in the morning. We got to pay for gas, jesus. We did our phone on and watch Insecure every night.
Speaker 1:That was kind of like our thing.
Speaker 2:That's how we really started to be like we should start right now. The crazy stuff we saw today and from those notes, that's how rock bottom came about. Because a friend was like we didn't tell anybody, nobody knew we lived out of our car when we did. Our families didn't know, our friends didn't know. Wow, I was in a whole show and nobody knew I was going home to the car. Yeah, I just, I don't know. The thing about me and the thing about Mariah is I'm an optimist, she's a realist, so I never thought to go home. I never thought it's not going to work out Like I was a little delusional, like a healthy amount of delusion. I've always had that, and she was very much like my son's at home. Why are we out of a car? Like maybe I should just drop her off somewhere and I go back to Pittsburgh? But we never did, for whatever reason. We found a place in Bay Ridge and went from there.
Speaker 1:That's this Mariah right here. Do people know that? Yeah, they know. Okay, that's crazy. Yeah, like, how was y'all I mean? So the first place my mind went when you said that was as you told that story was like, oh, they must be bonded for life, they must be sisters, they must have connected on, and what I would also say is as someone who I never had that experience with anybody.
Speaker 1:But like as, for example, I'm in a fraternity. As an example, I Y'all went through something Maybe, but, like, what I'm saying is that actually doesn't always yield the best form of closeness for two people. That can also yield a lot of like trauma, scars and different things. You know, just like shit that you have when you know somebody so well. Sometimes it doesn't. So how's y'all's relationship today?
Speaker 2:I think, especially going to this next season with me using my voice more, I've been a person that this place has to be on fire for me to even like express a concern. That's just who I am. Like stuff really does roll off my back, like it takes a lot to give me upset, whereas Mariah is very much like always seeing, I wouldn't say, the problem in everything, but constantly navigating in survival mode and I think at this point in my life I don't have to still survive, like my bills are paid, thank you to my man. I'm good. I really can just focus on how I'm going as a person and creating.
Speaker 2:She still has a child, she still has realities and again, she didn't make it through the whole of the show and I felt a lot of guilt about that, like it was my fault and in hindsight I really didn't make that decision and I had to let that go and I had to express that. And I think our friendship right now is in a place where we're both trying to relearn each other for where we are now, cause we're not living out of a car, we're not living in the same city, we haven't in a while and our lives look a little different and we're still trying to figure out what the other needs and how to show up and what the next chapter of our friendship looks like. And sometimes it's going, sometimes without talking. The love doesn't change, but sometimes you got to focus on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, as I'm learning, sometimes that is the best thing for the relationship is space. Sometimes that's a. Really you have a really remarkable story. I think you already know that. But like that, as a storyteller, you have a lot of gold, to mine, it seems. So I'm gonna ask one last question that we're gonna get into this game. But yeah, I wanna go back to the. I mean, it's loosely a game, it's basically just okay. Now you asked me questions, right, so all right, if we can go back to the beginning of this conversation, the aunties at the.
Speaker 2:where were you at when these elders we were at Martha's, we were at August.
Speaker 1:Right. So there's no shortage of people who look at you and see this person has a marriage that I judge. There's no shortage of those people.
Speaker 2:Hell. I judge people's marriages every day, Of course.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's impossible not to, but yours was on a big stage, yours is on a big stage. So what I really wanna ask is, like, after having had that experience, having had time to process it, oh, I actually have two more questions. So the game is gonna wait, but like now feels as good a time as any, in my opinion to say to people who do have judgment for your marriage and your relationship, like, I'm curious, what would you say to those people? Like, if you could put a billboard up for all of them to look at, what would it say?
Speaker 2:If you would have asked me this a month ago, I might have said I might have added context in terms of who my husband is and who we are together and why we are truly each other's soulmates and we bring out the best in each other. Since you're asking me today, I will say who cares what you have to say? I'm living it. You'll watch next season and the season after, because I understand that people's perception change all the time. They change every day, and I do understand that, no matter what I say, as humans it's innate to feel like you're a good judge of character, and anything that negates that or goes against that is so hard to let go. So it doesn't matter what I say or what context or what photos I post. Once you've decided what you feel and think, people don't like questioning themselves, and so why try? Initially I wanted to, but then, where I am today, it's like no, I know how good of a life I have. I know how blessed I am to have him and he me. That's it.
Speaker 1:This is not my question, but I have another question after this one. The thing you said about watching Insecure in the Car with Mariah, that's fire. Have you met Issa Rae? Have you told her that?
Speaker 2:I've never met her, but she is my Capricorn sister and I understand her completely. No, I haven't. I haven't.
Speaker 1:Word, I mean listen, and I have no way to get that message to her, but I think that that would be something very moving, probably for somebody like her to hear about your story that's crazy, I mean, that is something that inspired you while you were in such a tough time is very meaningful to me at least.
Speaker 2:I guess I never thought about it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, watching that shit in the car on your phone like that's crazy, all right, no, again.
Speaker 2:One little thing. When her and Molly were going through that shit, mariah and I were definitely butting hands in the car, so it was just like that's crazy. We feel sane. We gon' get through this, though, girl.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy. All right, so what we're going is we're going to flip the lens a little bit and basically we're going to try this thing that we've started, which is asking the guest to try to ask me a question that I will not answer. But in the segue there I want to try to ask you a question you will not answer really quickly.
Speaker 2:OK, let's do it?
Speaker 1:Do they pay you all to be on the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do pay it.
Speaker 1:How much do they pay you all?
Speaker 2:I can't say how much, but I need more than that. I'm not about to have kids.
Speaker 1:You can't say it because of NDAs.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:OK, and did they pay you for the people cover for your pregnancy photos?
Speaker 2:No, I paid out of my own money a publicist that I started working with because I have things that I'm trying to do and use this platform for. So I literally just started working with a publicist 30 days ago and I knew that it was an exciting, positive thing and that I just didn't want to announce it on my Instagram. So we worked together to make that happen.
Speaker 1:Can you say who the publicist is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Shannon Barr.
Speaker 1:OK, cool. Well, shout out to her, there's some free publicity.
Speaker 2:Shannon Strategic public relations.
Speaker 1:Cool. All right, let's see what you got here. Do what you can do.
Speaker 2:Welcome to my TED Talk. No, I'm just kidding. All right, let's do it. I had a lot of fun putting these questions together. They came very easily. I just want you to know Great, how have your parents failed you? I don't get that.
Speaker 1:Look at his face Wow.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll give you a little context, that I give you a second to answer.
Speaker 1:Please, please.
Speaker 2:Parenthood is rapidly approaching, for me that's true. And so a lot of these thoughts kind of came from that.
Speaker 1:Wow, well, that's a great place to start, oh man.
Speaker 2:How have your parents failed you?
Speaker 1:You know what, for the sake of yeah, like I'm having to choose right now between two things right that matter to me. One is like what I do for a living, which is my purpose, and the other is like Sorry, my lips are chapped, the other is like maintaining some level of comfort with, I think, how my parents would like to see themselves reflected off of their children. The answer to that question is that I have two very. What's the word Like? Very, what's the word Like? What's the thing when you're?
Speaker 2:ambitious.
Speaker 1:Like I, have two parents who very much valued ambition progress leadership, like all of the like type A personality things.
Speaker 1:And there is a side of me that is very chill, very wants peace, wants to like, wants to wander a little bit through life and not always be like and and and. It's just, it's a. It's an important side of me. It's a side of me that connects, I think, to artists and creatives and like people, other people who want to like Piss, you're a pice, fine, I am a pice, I'm super pices and those. Those were not things that were valued in our household.
Speaker 1:Makes a lot of sense, and so I, and so I think I had to go find ways to nurture those things they did. They certainly value like they certainly helped me nurture my creative gifts by way of like piano lessons. You know, I went to Montessori school. I was in humanities programs, jack and Jill, jack and Jill.
Speaker 2:Of course you're going to. You're going to the self development is going to be there, right, but it might look different for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I, you know, I I think I would also have loved some like Learning how to like value feelings, like learning how to value like I'm sad today. You know what I mean, because something good comes out of being able to say like I'm sad today and the and the answer, and not just be either no, you're not, or you know. Well, that's just you got to jump back over your feet and like yes, exactly, and I and I and I, I understand why, like, why parents can like certain types of parents are wired that way, but it's really, I mean, it's really hard for me to even answer the question, but I did it, so no point for you, god damn it.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, yeah go ahead. Has your view of marriage changed recently?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I feel like this is a nice open alley for you. I'm willing to sacrifice a point here just to know your perspective.
Speaker 1:My view on marriage has changed recently. Ey, ey, ey, ai, I don't know if I'll ever get married. That's probably the first time that I will ever I have ever been able to say that out loud or accept that. You're like, yeah, you're stunned. Now you don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just very tuned in and listening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So marriage has always felt like an absolute certainty of my future. Because I was, my parents have been married for 35 years. I always knew marriage as like a just like a certainty, even though 90% of my friends' parents were not together in my house. Like you have two parents and they're married. My sister's married. My sister's been married I don't know like seven, eight years. She got three children. I thought for sure.
Speaker 1:I've been walking. It's complicated because I've been walking, trying to emulate that model and trying to like find how to fit into that model. And I would say, lately I am reassessing my understanding of that as a future for me and I am reassessing my understanding of the future in general. The future right now feels like an unknown abyss. It just feels like a black hallway where and I don't know what's in there. Yeah, and I'm like and I'm trying to obsess less over the future. Anyway, you know, I'm trying to like when I was saying the thing in the opening spiel, I was like I really my, you know, I really feel like if I can just feel how I feel now every day, for every year, that's a great life. And I don't know, I don't know what it takes to do that or what that means I'll be doing in the future, but like that's how I feel right now.
Speaker 2:I think the baby's agreeing with you, because he's moving a lot right now.
Speaker 1:Oh wait, when is when is he?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:When does he do?
Speaker 2:February 25th.
Speaker 1:So will he be on Pisces he will.
Speaker 2:Silas is a Pisces too, you know.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:March 2nd.
Speaker 1:March 6th Crazy Okay.
Speaker 2:Wow, surrounded by water.
Speaker 1:You are surrounded by water.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm Earth, so that's fine. Okay, could you walk away from writing at the industry level today?
Speaker 1:What help me? What does that mean? Exactly Like being a screenwriter. T-b-writer.
Speaker 2:Yes, not having the resources to operate and get your projects at the level that is considered industry.
Speaker 1:First of all, I meant to say this in my opening spiel, so I'm going to get it off now. I don't know how much you know this, but like I really do not fuck with those people, I really do not fuck with Couldn't tell. Like all those niggas, aren't vacation. Let me be specific.
Speaker 2:But that's why I asked, because I've heard a couple of episodes before and I got that sentiment. But that's where the question came from, because it's not just the people, it's your work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I just pissed a pride. We got an offer coming right now from the biggest, from the biggest studio, to write something. What I would say is I feel like I'm on a race right now with this whole thing, with all my other stuff, my writing books, building these platforms, yearbook building, audience products. The race is to build all of this to a place where I don't need them to build it all to a place where, if I want a budget for a movie that I want to go direct, I can take it out of my business. I can take it, or I can go ask fucking Oprah for it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't want to need HBO, max, amazon, hulu Understandable, you know what I mean. So could I do it? Yes, but I have to like. Can I walk away from that? I have to make, I'm going to have to like make it happen. You know what I mean. I'm going to have to like build the leverage where I don't need them or where I can only, where I only have to include them when I feel it's valuable to me.
Speaker 2:I mean a quirk Drake. You know how shaky it gets.
Speaker 1:Exactly yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you for saying that. I want to talk to you two later about just how you're doing all of that, because I'm in a similar entrance point with multiple projects and it's crazy. What group of people would you be most uncomfortable going on a weekend trip with?
Speaker 1:Oh my God, Most people I mean yeah you must say names.
Speaker 2:All right, what type of people you don't get to? You're not in the game, Morgan. Thank you, Morgan.
Speaker 1:Morgan with the alley-oop. I'm really picky about who I can get around for sure. Some of that, I think, is like the age that I'm in is I'm learning how to like manage my energy better who I'm around. If I want to be specific, like I don't have it in me to be around emotionally needy people right now, because I said this last episode, I need myself right now. I need to give myself myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I can't be around. Nobody who needs to be reaffirmed every 10 seconds. Need you to sit? Like, need you to? I'm going to try to describe a type of person. Oh, energy attackers, like you know, people who come in. You know your energy is very soft and gentle. It's like you come in and it's like you know what I mean. That's you. Who's that Exactly? I can't be around. Nobody who, like their energy, like is like on your head. It's like they're trying to like. I don't know what they're trying to do. It's imposed. It's imposed, it's forceful, it's like it's oppressive.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like no energy straws, no, like no people who let me. I'm trying to like. Let me crystallize it. You can. What do you want to know? Help?
Speaker 2:me make it more specific, Like what? What energy attackers?
Speaker 1:Yes, like I will yes.
Speaker 2:The people that just like come in and like kill your whole vibe.
Speaker 1:Kill my vibe. I can feel it in a second Like, like in a moment. I'm just like I hate this so much I have to leave, I have to run, yeah, and you know, you know what else? I can't be around right now. Like that dead behind the eyes, shit really does fuck with me right now.
Speaker 2:It's like no, I was. I was telling you you really had me tearing up, because I kind of oscillate between that, sometimes day in and day out, like there's light, I'm dead. There's light, I'm dead again.
Speaker 1:Like that and I think we all do. But I think there are some people who they're they're not even accept, they're not even realizing it, but like they really have thrown in the towel, like they really have waved the white flag on their dream, like that's hard, that's really hard for me to be around.
Speaker 2:That's fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, we kind of touched on this, but you can elaborate if you feel like it. Did you feel seen on black summer house specifically?
Speaker 1:by the men. Oh, excellent question. Um, thank you by the men. This is funny cause years ago I like I told my boy, uh, leon, all right, we got like 10 minutes. I told my boy Leon, I was like this is like probably 2012. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to like apply for whatever you know, like all these casting calls for reality shows.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, I'm going to apply for one of them, joints, and he was like it's like dog, you're not tall enough. So what I know, but so, um, I mean the one who I relate to the most is Alex. Like he's, he feels like a Pisces. I don't know if he is a Pisces or not, but he's not he's an. Aries, okay, he, he feels the most. Um, I don't know, I don't he, just I just like him and he just feels. He just feels normal, like. He feels like a normal person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean even with his upbringing. I can see a lot of similarities for you guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and you know we, we're in the same, like I met him years ago through whatever. But um, let me just look at these guys, man, Let me let me recall. Do I see myself in any? Okay, All right, this is the great question. Here we go. There was a time in my life where I was doing an Elmere impression.
Speaker 2:I can see that yes.
Speaker 1:And I I don't know if Elmere is doing- it?
Speaker 2:Was it going into Morehouse?
Speaker 1:Um, it was actually after Morehouse. Before before Morehouse, I was like I was like you know, smart, nerdy kid, but I was wearing like tall T's and trying to be trying to be cool. Yep, and your white T, yes, um, morehouse, I just kind of felt like myself myself, except I was like also doing like frat boy thing, but it's like black frat boy thing, which is different from like.
Speaker 1:But then when I went to Google and I moved out to the Bay, then I was like I'm going to be, I'm going to tread lightly because I don't want to. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not trying to do nothing to a mirror, but like I was trying to create a version of myself that felt palatable and included with white people.
Speaker 2:Right, I think you hit it on the on the head. Yeah, yeah, okay. Um, I was going to ask this question, but I'm actually not, because there's something now that I think are pressed for time that I really want to know when you have children, how will you choose your godparents? Ooh, because I'm struggling with that.
Speaker 1:So, all right, I was just at a wedding in Jamaica. Two of my boys were there I'm each of their sons godfather and this conversation was had with a woman who was there who I don't know, but she was just a good conversation and she asked them. She was like why did you choose this guy to be your godfather? They both gave the same answer, which was not just I wanted a friend you know a close friend but I wanted a friend who would give my son a different perspective than mine. So I think, I think I think what they were valuing is like perspective spectrum. For me, I probably just choose the richest nigga I know.
Speaker 2:That's the Beyonce way. Do you think her Oprah the closest? No, but that's her kids godmother. That's Blue. Ivy's godmom is Oprah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:No, I mean I, you know there's a couple of guys who come to mind who, if they're, if we still have the same relationship. If and when I have kids, then I would choose them Like definitely someone who is going to care about the responsibility. That doesn't mean they have to be like tapped in with my child like all the time. It just means like I want to know that if something should ever happen to me, there's another guy out there who is going to be like I'm going to make sure this person's life is not worse than this threshold.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, that's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm struggling with that because for me, I'm like I do want someone that cares about a lot of things. That's how I care about. Yeah, in terms of his friends, it's so easy, like I think we've already figured it out. In terms of my friends, I I'm still meeting mentors and women that I look up to that. I just I don't feel like I've met my son's godmother yet. If that makes sense, it's weird.
Speaker 1:And he's on the way, he's almost here.
Speaker 2:I know I have no time. He about to have no godparents. Is there an artist that intimidates you?
Speaker 1:In what sense?
Speaker 2:Remember what I met you at the, the launch party, and I was like you scare me.
Speaker 1:Why did you say that? I don't remember you saying that.
Speaker 2:Really Okay. This is why, when you don't drink and people drink a rag, not a slag- no, that's that's.
Speaker 1:I had drinks. That night, so did.
Speaker 2:Morgan, hey, I said you, I was like listening to your show scares me, because I'm not scared in a specific sense, but you have to rise to the occasion in the conversations. You can't just be passive. And I think what made me excited about coming here today is that I knew that I had the opportunity to get to know you, but like you would have the opportunity to get to know me, but like there was no space for BS and the space in between you and I getting to know each other and having conversations would be pure in a way.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like you've gotten that? With other people know today, today, yes, okay, good.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that's why I said it was, it was new.
Speaker 1:And it scares you because you might have to.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm in transition, so I didn't know how it would show up. You get what I'm saying. Like is it the growing part of me that's showing us today, or like the old me? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, who scares me in that way? Um, maybe not in that way, you know, I think, who? Okay, the artists, the artists who I think I admire the most are willing to, they're able to like zero in. They know they have, they have it, they know, they have a vision like they know it and they zero in on it and they are willing to take their time to achieve it.
Speaker 1:They're willing to be told no a million times to achieve it. They're willing to block out anybody who doesn't understand it or see it, or who wants to destroy it. Yeah, they're, unfortunately, like some of the people who I looked up to in that way, like Kanye, like have taken such a turn that it's hard to say that I see them that way.
Speaker 1:But like and then there are others who, like I wouldn't say I'm intimidated necessarily by these people, but I do admire, like there are some people who are like they chase their, they pursue their career like a blunt object, like they're just, like not, like they're willing to run through people to make some shit happen and in a way that gets them where they wanna go, but also to me reveals a darkness that I stay away from.
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's a really good discernment point.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, because it's, I think it's, and I've been in this position, cause you can get there.
Speaker 2:It's all that's. That comes with it too, yeah.
Speaker 1:That I'm learning. I've been in the position where I've been close to people who have that trait and it hurts to be their friend. That's what I was getting to a little bit earlier. Yes, it does like cause, because nothing else is valued but their vision Like, which means you are not valued as a friend, You're not like. All that matters is getting to the point.
Speaker 2:Stuff is dropping. Yes, yeah, you feel me. Yes 100%, that's. That is a decision you have to make. You come across when you get to a certain point. There's a sweep you can talk to because they're experiencing that similar thing, and so I get what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you have to go to like survivors anonymous with their other friends or the therapist. Yeah, Either way.
Speaker 2:Okay, my last question is and this is not for a point, I'll leave this who is the historian in your family?
Speaker 1:I guess now it's my sister, it's part of my sister, my sister, my sister really my sister's also an author. She just published her first book. Oh, congrats, sis. Yeah, it came out. On what month is it Came out on October 2nd, yep, nice. And it's doing quite well. She's a fiction writer. It's a compilation of short stories. She really cares about, like there's a family tree as the, as the first image of the book, and it's a book about an inter, the interconnections between a bunch of loosely related family members. My mom actually drew the family tree in the front of the book, but she really cares about knowing where we came from and how that trickles into and, like, you know what's real and what's not. Also, like what's mythology and what's not. And I'm going, I haven't I think I'm too sad and angry about slavery to really like pour into our history the way that I could.
Speaker 2:It takes a certain type of person to be a historian.
Speaker 1:I'm like, I'm like, I'm like almost ready, but I'm still. I'm still feel like when I get to the point where I can't trace back anymore, I'm going to be so resentful of that. Yeah, I'm like that's fucked up.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like she can pass the baton to you a little bit later?
Speaker 1:If she wants to. I mean it feels like it's her, like she's always cared about family. She's always like. When we were little kids, she used to like have a journal and she would write all these names in it and like make up fake family relationships between these people and stories about them when she was like six, seven years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she cared and she got it. Three babies, she got it. Yeah, she does.
Speaker 1:All right, we got to wrap it up. This was so nice. I'm so glad you came Me too. You're just so real man. You're just a real ass person, and that's to me the highest compliment.
Speaker 2:Like you're not on that funny shit? Yeah, you're not on that funny shit.
Speaker 1:So this is Jasmine Ellis Cooper, star of Summer House, martha's Vineyard. What's the name? Can you say the name of the project that you're about to start pitching, or do you want to not talk about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so really quickly. Rock Bottom is a half hour comedy about two friends that are delusional enough to stay in their car to live out their dreams. And then my other baby is St Losers. It's about a young girl that masquerades as a little boy that's 12, to attain this all-boy school in St Louis amongst their black elite in the 1940s.
Speaker 1:There you go. Macro, 40 acres. Hooray, who else? Who do you want to produce these?
Speaker 2:projects. Ooh, I'm still in the historian and outlining phase. It's honestly really exciting. Like I do feel like history and like it's my calling Anything with history and service like I'm gonna do, and that's why I said St Losers is like my baby. Rock Bottom is like my child. I'm ready to like sell my child, but like St Louis is whoever has the budget, because I understand historical comedies are expensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you represented somewhere as a writer? No, I'm not Okay. Well, here she is. Free agent WME CAA.
Speaker 2:I'm a free agent now, UTA come get her.
Speaker 1:That's it. This has been nothing but anarchy. Thanks y'all for tuning in Merchandise link in my bio. Go buy merch, we're on all platforms. Also, go listen to yearbook If you haven't already. Episodes one and two are out on all platforms. Most shared podcast on Spotify. We'll be back next week. No show on Thursday. That's it, thank you. Thank you and thank you.
Speaker 2:Congrats, by the way, on everything.
Speaker 1:You too. Bye, bye y'all.
